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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Adie and Samantha and welcome stuff.

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Speaker 2: I've never told you a production of iHeartRadio, and we

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Speaker 2: are once again thrilled to be joined by the wonderful,

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Speaker 2: the magnificent.

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Speaker 3: The majestic Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget, Thank you for having

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Speaker 3: me back. So excited to chat with you all today.

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Speaker 3: Happy holiday season, kind of sort of, I guess we're

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Speaker 3: sort of getting.

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Speaker 1: There, kind of getting there yet we are we are.

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Speaker 2: I have that weird feeling of like before you get

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Speaker 2: on like a school break or something.

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Speaker 4: Today, right, we are trying to like get together and

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Speaker 4: do all the things very quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we can actually maybe take a break. How

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Speaker 2: have you been, Bridget do you have? Have you had

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Speaker 2: any breaks or any breaks coming up?

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Speaker 3: Not really breaks. I did spend a nice weekend in

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite places, Woodstock, New York. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if anyone has been to that area, like upstate

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Speaker 3: New York, Catskills, Woodstock. It's so lovely. I try to

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Speaker 3: get up there once a fall season to like look

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Speaker 3: at the leaves. It's so nice. Yeah, I'm also looking

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Speaker 3: forward to Thanksgiving. I am also in that vibe where

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Speaker 3: you know when you officially start being like, let's circle

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Speaker 3: back in January, let's talk about it in the new year.

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Speaker 3: I'm in that vibe. I'm like, if it wasn't on

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Speaker 3: my radar by now, it's certainly not going on my radar.

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Speaker 1: Now, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am with you, although we might be circling

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Speaker 2: back with you about coming back and talking about more

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Speaker 2: Scream stuff because that was so fun.

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Speaker 3: I saw you did the Scream six episode and I

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Speaker 3: watched the Scream version that you said was like Harvey

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Speaker 3: Weinstein esque. I thought that was a really inspired tick.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to give anything away, but I would

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Speaker 3: never have if you had not said that, I would

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Speaker 3: not have been watching with an eye for that. And

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, what an inspired take.

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Speaker 2: Thank you you are now my breast friend. Get out. No,

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Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. No, we might be doing some more

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Speaker 2: content around.

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Speaker 1: That, so you know, yeah, we're still looking at it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's yes. But in the meantime, speaking of

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Speaker 2: the holidays, this is a topic I know nothing about.

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Speaker 2: I am very excited to learn about it, and it

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Speaker 2: does relate. So can you tell us what are we

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Speaker 2: talking about today, Bridget.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So with the holiday season, sort of being here.

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Speaker 3: It always makes me think of my least favorite activity,

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Speaker 3: which is holiday shopping. I hate holiday shopping. I don't

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Speaker 3: like doing it. It's such a pain in the butt.

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Speaker 3: But I have a question, kind of a related question

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Speaker 3: for both of you. Have you ever watched QVC or

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Speaker 3: the Home Shopping Network?

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Speaker 2: I think I have in sort of the parody, like

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Speaker 2: I've seen parodies of it more than i've watched it.

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Speaker 2: I will say though, I worked for what was probably

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Speaker 2: not a great company when I was in high school

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Speaker 2: selling knives.

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Speaker 1: That was a big brand.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how I got involved in it.

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Speaker 2: Like, looking back, I'm confused at how it happens, but

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Speaker 2: I remember kind of saying the things that I would

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Speaker 2: hear on like QBC to try to sell these knives

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Speaker 2: to older women that were like, how old are you do?

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Speaker 3: Why is there a high schooler trying to sell me

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Speaker 3: kitchen knives.

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Speaker 4: I took a lot of college students did this because

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Speaker 4: I had several friends in my college days doing that

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Speaker 4: and the guarantee of they will always sharpen it for

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Speaker 4: the rest of your life, guaranteed sharp knives.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they do.

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Speaker 4: I don't need to ask my friends. If they actually

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Speaker 4: did do that anymore, it should.

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Speaker 1: A QVC. They can't for the QVC.

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Speaker 4: I feel like you're dating me a little bit, but

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Speaker 4: mainly because my mother went in on the QVC, and

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Speaker 4: I know there was one year, one Christmas year where

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Speaker 4: everything as where previously when we were children, it was

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Speaker 4: from the Seers Catalog Christmas Catalog, which everybody looked forward to.

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Speaker 1: Then it went to the QVC.

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Speaker 4: And everything came from QVC, and I was like, what

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Speaker 4: the hell.

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Speaker 1: Is this uven e meant for?

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Speaker 4: Essentially, and coming into the house and seeing QBC going

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Speaker 4: Marie Osmond was the spokes person during that timeframe, I

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Speaker 4: want to say, and my mother was all in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have spent a lot of time watching QVC

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Speaker 3: in my life. It was like, I don't really know

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Speaker 3: how this started, but like you know, when you're in

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Speaker 3: college and you and your friends are getting stoned and

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Speaker 3: maybe you have a specific thing that you watched for

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Speaker 3: a laugh. Ours was QVC and Home Shopping Network. I

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Speaker 3: don't know why, and it had this like like we

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Speaker 3: did it as a joke, but I actually did quite

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Speaker 3: enjoy the spectacle of it. There's a kind of like

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Speaker 3: grotesque kind of spectacle to watching somebody in an over

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Speaker 3: the top way, like try to sell you a pantsuit

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Speaker 3: at two am on live television. But here's the thing

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Speaker 3: that I wanted to talk about today. As much as

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed being stoned and watching QVC when I was

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Speaker 3: in college, it feels like scrolling TikTok these days feels

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Speaker 3: a lot more like scrolling a virtual version of QBC

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Speaker 3: or the Home Shopping Network. More over the top ads

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Speaker 3: than ever, and the whole thing feels a little bit

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Speaker 3: like dystopian. Annie. I know that you're not big on

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Speaker 3: scrolling TikTok, but Sam, you are on TikTok. Have you

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Speaker 3: noticed this? Have you seen more ads on the platform? Well?

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Speaker 4: Weirdly, like the things that I've seen are live videos

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Speaker 4: for shops, which really threw me Offcach, I don't like

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Speaker 4: lives anyway. I'm like, I don't want to do this

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Speaker 4: because oftentimes lives, Annie, are just like people sitting. I

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Speaker 4: stumbled onto a gamer who pretending to sleep apparently for

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Speaker 4: like an hour to get likes, Like that's the way

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Speaker 4: they have to wake him up, And these like awards

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Speaker 4: and such gives them actual money. And I didn't know

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Speaker 4: that I was like, why is he pretending to sleep?

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Speaker 4: I am so confused. But on top of that, so

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Speaker 4: the lives already like give me the ick because it

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Speaker 4: feels odd because I don't choose. It's not people you follow,

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Speaker 4: it's just for your for your feed essentially. And so

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Speaker 4: when I come into shops, I'm even more confused because

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Speaker 4: at the bottom it has like twenty percent off, thirty

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Speaker 4: percent off, and then you accidentally click the button. Then

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Speaker 4: you can't get out because it takes you to three

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Speaker 4: different sites, and you're like, what the hell am I in?

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Speaker 1: What did I just do?

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Speaker 3: Yes? I also don't really like lives like I love

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Speaker 3: to consume content on TikTok from people I don't follow,

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Speaker 3: but something about the lives I immediately am like, no,

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Speaker 3: it's usually sometimes split screen or people are arguing about

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Speaker 3: something like I just don't like it, don't want to

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Speaker 3: see it, need it. What I like about TikTok is

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Speaker 3: that it's a platform that seems like it's full of

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Speaker 3: regular people telling like a funny or engaging story, compared

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Speaker 3: to a platform like Instagram that to me has always

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Speaker 3: felt like a polished, you know, influencer setting up an

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Speaker 3: unattainable or aspirational life thing, right, But on TikTok, now,

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Speaker 3: those engaging regular people are now like selling you something.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you scroll you get regular you know,

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Speaker 3: polished professional TikTok ads and tiktoks that look like normal videos,

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Speaker 3: but they say eligible for commission on the bottom, where

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Speaker 3: it's like not exactly an ad ad. But the person

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Speaker 3: who is talking to you like they're your friend does

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Speaker 3: happen to like be telling you about a product they

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Speaker 3: want you to buy and that they get a cut

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Speaker 3: of if you do TikTok or Grace Purcell actually described

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Speaker 3: it really well. She said that TikTok is feeling like

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Speaker 3: Shean and Ali Express had a baby too, like fast

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Speaker 3: fashion retailers that y'all might be familiar with.

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Speaker 4: All right, so I do have a question and you

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Speaker 4: might not know the answer to those because I've seen

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Speaker 4: a lot of the four eligible but it's on things

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Speaker 4: that are either older like have been like I might

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Speaker 4: not have crossed it earlier, and then you click on

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Speaker 4: the date and like, oh it was a month ago,

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Speaker 4: to things that are just fan cam videos. So I

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Speaker 4: am on a lot of K pop TikTok don't judge

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Speaker 4: or k drama TikTok and they're not really eligible to

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Speaker 4: sell anything. It's just individuals who like to pull show

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Speaker 4: portions of like clips of a show or clips of

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Speaker 4: a performance.

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Speaker 1: And says eligible. I'm like, wait, do they.

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Speaker 4: Choose to put that on there? Or is that just

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Speaker 4: Tiktoks like, Hey, I'm gonna put this on there.

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Speaker 3: Great question. I'm not one hundred percent sure. So if

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Speaker 3: anybody listening is like, that's not cracked, let me know.

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Speaker 3: My understanding is that in order to be eligible for

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Speaker 3: TikTok's Affiliate creator program, you a creator has to have

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Speaker 3: five thousand or more followers. And so I think that

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Speaker 3: when it says eligible for commission, I think that that

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Speaker 3: is TikTok's way of saying, hey, this person it's like

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Speaker 3: a bad thing, Like, hey, this person has met the

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Speaker 3: requirements in order to be able to be part of

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Speaker 3: TikTok's affiliate program. That's what I think. Oh, don't one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent quote me on.

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Speaker 4: That, yeah, because that the scares me and makes me

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Speaker 4: like I don't want to buy anything from you.

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Speaker 1: You get away from me immediately run.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's kind of the thing that I that I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about today is that I feel like

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Speaker 3: something about the experience of being on TikTok which previously

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Speaker 3: had been this platform to like consume, whether it's your

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Speaker 3: K pop fan cams or whatever, now having everything feel

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Speaker 3: like kind of spammy just feels kind of sus like,

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Speaker 3: it just feels scammy. It feels weird, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know that it's really lending itself to an experience. It

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Speaker 3: feels like a place where you would want to enter

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Speaker 3: your financial information for instance, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, right, I think a lot of it feels like

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Speaker 4: I'm being like, like you said, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 4: being scammed, which I'm already like very overly cautious of

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Speaker 4: because it's constant as it is, whether it's misinformation from

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Speaker 4: some things, because we know a lot of things are

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Speaker 4: happening TikTok uh in Instagram and Twitter, all the things

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Speaker 4: that I've decided to be similar things to show the

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Speaker 4: stories or the whatever whatnot, and a lot of activists

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Speaker 4: and people who have been censored are able to come

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Speaker 4: on to there, to be able to do a lot

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Speaker 4: more content. But it makes me worry that I'm like,

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Speaker 4: is this all a lie? And is this for money?

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Speaker 4: Because I know, I don't if you're gonna talk about

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Speaker 4: this in a minute. The STC just went after several

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Speaker 4: creators for not doing enough to show that they are sponsored.

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Speaker 3: Yet this is something that I could talk about all day.

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Speaker 3: I will say this that, like I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of creators and also platforms have been skirting lines around

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Speaker 3: what is and it's not sponsored content. By law, if

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Speaker 3: something is an AD, you have to it has to

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Speaker 3: be clear. It doesn't matter if you're on social media

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Speaker 3: or not. And so I remember seeing that those influencers

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Speaker 3: had gotten popp by the FTC for not disclosing that

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Speaker 3: something is an AD. You see influencers doing all kinds

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Speaker 3: of tricks where they make the sponsored or hashtag ad

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Speaker 3: so tiny you can see it. Maybe they put it

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Speaker 3: on the on the almost Instagram story, they hide it

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Speaker 3: behind something, all kinds of tricks. But let me tell you,

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Speaker 3: if you are someone who is intending to be an

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Speaker 3: influencer or intending to make content that is sponsored, don't

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Speaker 3: piss off the FDC. It's not worth it.

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Speaker 1: It's not a good idea. That's about the professionals.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we've we've had to have meetings about this,

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Speaker 2: Like I am terrified of it. I'm like, I will

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Speaker 2: say like fifteen times, like just.

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Speaker 4: So a ad like going back to because more and

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Speaker 4: more I am seeing creators that I've trusted or I

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Speaker 4: follow having the commission being an AD for something and

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Speaker 4: being confused because it feels like a normal video that

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Speaker 4: I usually would watch with them with all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden insert of something and I'm like, wait, did I

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Speaker 4: just watch an AD? And it like like it's it's

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Speaker 4: odd how often it's happening. And I feel like there's

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Speaker 4: definitely a pointed like black Friend, as well as holidays

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Speaker 4: deals coming up, all of these and I get enough

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Speaker 4: of that with like Amazon exactly.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that's my thing. I think that TikTok

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Speaker 3: is unique as a shopping platform in terms of being

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Speaker 3: what they call a social shopping platform, which is like

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Speaker 3: a mix of social media content that is user generated

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Speaker 3: and also e commerce shopping ability. I think that exactly

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Speaker 3: what you said, like there is something about TikTok that

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Speaker 3: has primed me to think when I am scrolling that platform,

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Speaker 3: I am just in getting content from engaging people, when

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Speaker 3: that content is actually an AD, when that content is

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Speaker 3: actually trying to sell me something something about it happening

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Speaker 3: on a platform that I just have normalized, is like

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Speaker 3: where I get by my funny content or whatever. Just

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Speaker 3: doesn't it just doesn't. I don't know. It just feels

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Speaker 3: really strange. And I think that again, when I'm on

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Speaker 3: Instagram scrolling, I'm a pretty good sense that, like I

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Speaker 3: am getting content from in for people who are really

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Speaker 3: polished and pretty. I feel like on TikTok there is

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Speaker 3: something that is harder for me to resist. Right on Instagram,

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Speaker 3: it's like they're serving up ads for this aspirational version

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Speaker 3: of the person I want to be, right, polished and

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Speaker 3: pretty and effortless. On TikTok, they are speaking to the

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Speaker 3: person that I actually am, which is like lazy and

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Speaker 3: easily entertained by novelty, right, and so like something about

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Speaker 3: it being a more authentic space just also makes it

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Speaker 3: a space where it's like you're more poised to, if

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Speaker 3: you're me, pull the trigger on stuff that you maybe

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Speaker 3: don't even need.

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Speaker 2: And this was a recent development, right, Like the things

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Speaker 2: that you're speaking to, the things you're seeing, that's kind

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Speaker 2: of a new thing on TikTok.

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Speaker 3: Correct, absolutely, So what's going on is that this is

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Speaker 3: the rollout of TikTok Shop. TikTok's affiliate creator program that

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Speaker 3: was officially rolled out in September after months of testing.

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Speaker 3: How it works is, as I said, creators that have

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Speaker 3: more than five thousand followers can get a cut of

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Speaker 3: whatever they sell on the platf TikTok takes a five

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Speaker 3: percent cut as well. So the rollout for this was

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Speaker 3: like not great in some of the ways we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about on this episode. But with Black Friday coming up,

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Speaker 3: TikTok is really kind of seeing this as a big

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Speaker 3: way to test the platform not just to be a

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Speaker 3: social app, but to be a social shopping app with

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Speaker 3: the potential to rival other e commerce big platforms like

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Speaker 3: your Amazon's, your Sheian's. Things like that Black Friday officially

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Speaker 3: rolled out on TikTok last month. Whirired. Actually, that are

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Speaker 3: really great breakdown of how it works. You might see

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Speaker 3: stuff on TikTok for Black Friday that is like suspiciously

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Speaker 3: low price, or like, how does this make sense that

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Speaker 3: this is so cheap? Well, that's because TikTok is kind

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Speaker 3: of subsidizing these suspiciously low prices on this gamble that

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Speaker 3: they're betting that social shopping is going to be the

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Speaker 3: next big thing. So the app sellers can pick items

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Speaker 3: to be discounted on their shops and then create their

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Speaker 3: own markdowns, which are then further subsidized by TikTok's discounts.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like how when Uber first came out, ubers

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Speaker 3: were like really cheap. You could get where you were

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Speaker 3: going for like eight dollars, and that was because Uber

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Speaker 3: the company was subsidizing the cost and like operating at

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Speaker 3: a pretty big loss in order to get us like

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Speaker 3: all hooks to use an Uber. And now that same

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Speaker 3: ride probably is thirty dollars or more because Uber is

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Speaker 3: no longer subsidizing the cost to get us all hooked.

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Speaker 2: We're all hooked now, right, And so yeah, so that's

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Speaker 2: been happening. You're s going through TikTok, as you said,

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Speaker 2: and you're not used to this kind of like having

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Speaker 2: this authentic content and then ads. So you were talking

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Speaker 2: about that of how it's just kind of been jarring

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Speaker 2: and hard for you to get sus out more.

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Speaker 1: What's an AD and what's not?

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Speaker 2: Can you talk about that and why this is something

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Speaker 2: that we should be talking about totally.

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Speaker 3: So I think, like you said, like there's just something

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Speaker 3: about this experience on TikTok that is psychologically different. You

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Speaker 3: go to Amazon out of utility. Right when I need

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Speaker 3: something on Amazon, I pull up the app, or I

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Speaker 3: type in Amazon dot common to the browser, and I

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Speaker 3: search what it is that I need, I buy it,

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Speaker 3: and I'm done. On TikTok, it does feel more like

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Speaker 3: a QVC because you're just scrolling content. So some of

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Speaker 3: it is adds, some of it is non ad content.

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Speaker 3: But I think that having it be this experience where

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Speaker 3: it's like it's just stuff being served to you at

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Speaker 3: least makes me a lot more eager to buy, Like

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Speaker 3: I find myself buying things that I just fully do

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Speaker 3: not need because of that scroll where I'm in the

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Speaker 3: mindset that I'm just looking at content. I'm not necessarily

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Speaker 3: trying to go shopping right now. And here's why I

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Speaker 3: think that people should care and why this is actually

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Speaker 3: really important. Everybody is always talking about how powerful TikTok's

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Speaker 3: algorithm is, right, it feels like it can really suss

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Speaker 3: out a lot about you, your needs, your insecurities, how

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Speaker 3: you live your life, all of that. So when you

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Speaker 3: add in that hyper targeted feel to shopping, it can

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Speaker 3: feel like it creates the conditions for folks to just

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Speaker 3: buy bye bye without really thinking right. Changes to the

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Speaker 3: way that we shop digitally that reduce what they call

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Speaker 3: friction just make it really easy, easier than ever to

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Speaker 3: just click buy on something you might not even really want.

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Speaker 3: And as we're all thinking about doing our holiday shopping,

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Speaker 3: we should really also be having critical conversations about the

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Speaker 3: way that shopping is showing up in our lives on

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Speaker 3: social media platforms and who all of those changes really benefit,

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Speaker 3: because I would argue is not benefiting us the person

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Speaker 3: who is like just trying to look at TikTok content

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Speaker 3: without being surfaced up as every third TikTok.

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Speaker 4: And one of the big questions as I'm looking at this,

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Speaker 4: because they have added I feel like so many different

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Speaker 4: ways to shop, like we have that now the targeted

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Speaker 4: Hey we have a sale, you should go this where

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Speaker 4: the shop to people who are influencers saying I found

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Speaker 4: this hack, go to this place. Or the one that

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Speaker 4: drives me crazy is the Amazon Finds or Amazon Deals

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Speaker 4: of the Day and then you go to their link

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Speaker 4: and it has it on their link and you go

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Speaker 4: through their site and they get a cost of money.

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Speaker 4: There's so many different things like that, where it feels

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Speaker 4: like it's just a consumer mechanism now exactly.

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Speaker 3: So, I did an interview with Pretty Critical. She's a

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Speaker 3: TikTok content creator who uses her platform to really have

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Speaker 3: frank conversations about shopping and financial, health and wellness and

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Speaker 3: beauty and consumerism. And she basically said the whole thing

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Speaker 3: right that, like it feels like a cycle. There's just

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Speaker 3: so many different things on the platform that are telling

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Speaker 3: you bye bye, bye bye bye, that it really normalizes

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Speaker 3: consumption without critical thought. It makes it seem like it

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Speaker 3: is totally normal to have an entire display of Stanley

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Speaker 3: water tumblers of every different color of the rainbow when

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Speaker 3: you cannot possibly use all of them. It makes you

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Speaker 3: think like, hey, this is normal. Everybody is doing this.

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Speaker 3: And another thing that she pointed out in our interview,

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Speaker 3: which you could listen to on my podcast, There Are

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Speaker 3: No Girls on the Internet, is that you don't necessarily

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Speaker 3: know the financial situation of either of the people that

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Speaker 3: you're seeing on tikto and so like this TikTok creator

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Speaker 3: might be making content that feels really authentic that makes

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Speaker 3: you think like, oh, we're really similar, we're living similar

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Speaker 3: kinds of lives, but you don't know that to be true.

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Speaker 3: She might have a trust fund, she might have a

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Speaker 3: rich partner, right like, she might be in a totally

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Speaker 3: different financial situation than you and be financially incentivized through

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Speaker 3: making money in getting you to feel the connection to

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Speaker 3: be like, yeah, I have a million water tumblers. You

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Speaker 3: can too, That's a totally normal thing to do. And

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Speaker 3: so I think all of that leads to folks feeling

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Speaker 3: more and more like these platforms are just I don't know,

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Speaker 3: dystopian digital malls rather than platforms to really have conversation

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Speaker 3: and connection and learn things. Amanda Mall is this journalist

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Speaker 3: at The Atlantic who has been doing a lot of

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Speaker 3: great coverage about how we shop online. I'll be citing

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Speaker 3: a few of her pieces in this conversation, but in

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Speaker 3: her piece, It's too easy to buy stuff you don't want,

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Speaker 3: she points out that retailers online have really made some

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Speaker 3: intentional changes to get us to do exactly what you

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Speaker 3: just said, Samanthah, but just really easily click by. Amanda writes,

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Speaker 3: over time those changes have become really commonplace, Like you

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Speaker 3: don't have to type in a password or your credit

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Speaker 3: card information every single time you shop online. Like, I

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Speaker 3: was really surprised when I bought something on TikTok. I

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Speaker 3: bought one thing on TikTok shop once when I want

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Speaker 3: to buy something else, I was really surprised that they

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Speaker 3: just saved all of my information and it was just like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you want to buy something else, well, all you got

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Speaker 3: to do is click here, one click right. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't think they asked for my permission to do this,

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Speaker 3: that I remember. I don't think like I told them

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Speaker 3: to do this. It was a little sus to me

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Speaker 3: how easy the platform had made it by saving all

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Speaker 3: of my information. And so retailers really refer to this

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Speaker 3: as friction. Friction is anything that might present a barrier

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Speaker 3: between you actually making that purchase. You know, I can't

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Speaker 3: tell you how many times I click buy on something

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Speaker 3: only to leave it in my online cart and then

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Speaker 3: like just abandon it for whatever reason. Is that something

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Speaker 3: that you've ever done.

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Speaker 4: All the time. I love that when I go though

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Speaker 4: it first and foremost. At one point, TikTok people so

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Speaker 4: were like, hey, this is a good way to stop

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Speaker 4: stop spending money. Think about it. Just keep it in

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Speaker 4: your in your car for a little while, and then

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Speaker 4: if you still need it or think about it a

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Speaker 4: week later, come back to it, like if you if

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Speaker 4: you wait, you might find out that you.

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Speaker 1: Actually don't need it.

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Speaker 4: So I did this because I am easily influenced, apparently

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Speaker 4: by TikTok, And yes, I leave things for a year

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Speaker 4: until is like unavailable, and then I'm like, I guess I.

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Speaker 1: Didn't need that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I once after I broke up with my ex, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I used to put I would I would lie awake

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Speaker 2: at night and I couldn't sleep, and I would put

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Speaker 2: these cookies in my cart bridge. I would put this

427
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Speaker 2: dozen cookies in my cart from this place in Atlanta

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Speaker 2: that delivers hot cookies all night. And one time I

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Speaker 2: finally would like, I left them there, left them there.

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Speaker 2: One time I finally I was like, all right, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to do it. This woman shows up and she

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Speaker 2: looks like, oh, you didn't mean to order this many cookies,

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Speaker 2: because all the times I had put the cookies in

434
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 2: the cart they were so I spent seventy five dollars

435
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: cookies for one person.

436
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: What'd you do with those cookies?

437
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 3: Though?

438
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 2: I took them outside and then destroyed them with a

439
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 2: baseball bat because I was a really dramatic part of.

440
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: My life, the part of the breakup that gets dramatic.

441
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: It was raining outside. Yeah, it was the whole thing.

442
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: I didn't eat any of the cookies.

443
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 4: Which made that's tragic to me, and I felt offended

444
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 4: by that not eating the cookie, at least one one

445
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 4: warm cookie. I would eat the MOOKI yeah, and crying them.

446
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 4: That's obviously a part of that. But I will say

447
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 4: I think another part that bothers me about this new

448
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 4: incentive and new ideal is that one of the reasons

449
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 4: I did like and I did start shopping with TikTok

450
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 4: was that you could find independent stores, small shops, small

451
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 4: shops created by marginalized people, and you kind of had

452
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 4: a better Maybe I was being tricked, I don't know,

453
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 4: but a better understanding of where these products were coming

454
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 4: from and who it was benefiting. I've done Christmas presents

455
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 4: through that. I think I bought a shirt from Mahogany

456
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 4: t Shirts, which has you know, I loved her company

457
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 4: and I love what she represented, and I really wanted

458
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 4: to do that. So I found her on TikTok and

459
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 4: I loved everything about that. Found other shops similar to

460
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 4: that that I'm like, I want to support this creator,

461
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 4: and now it's kind of feeling like it's getting toppled

462
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 4: by these other bigger content and bigger corporations.

463
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: That's exactly what I have seen. I want to be

464
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 3: clear that it is not all bad. Wire reports that

465
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 3: small businesses can really see a boost from social selling

466
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 3: on TikTok, like shops can see a flood of interest

467
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: on their products that they take off or go viral

468
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: on TikTok. So I want to be clear that I'm

469
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 3: not trying to demonize small businesses. I think that small

470
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 3: businesses and artisans should be able to have platforms. But

471
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: because of the way that TikTok shop has been rolled out,

472
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 3: you have small business and like artisan goods also alongside

473
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: goods made by like big box retailers whose names you

474
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 3: would recognize, like I think pac Son is on there,

475
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: Zara is on there. Then you have like basically mass

476
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: produced junk, like crap that is going to break immediately.

477
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 3: You have all of that vying on the same platform.

478
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 3: And so I think it's great the idea that small

479
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: businesses or small artists or artisans can go viral or

480
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 3: really you know, have a boost in sales and visibility

481
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: by using a platform. I don't know that it's necessarily

482
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 3: fair to have those small creators in small shops competing

483
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 3: with Zara and pac Son and then also competing with

484
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: like name unknown mass produced item that costs a nickel

485
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 3: to make or something like. I almost feel like it

486
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily create fair conditions for those small businesses and

487
00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: artisans to thrive.

488
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: Right, And I think one of the things that I'm

489
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: hearing through this conversation as someone who doesn't use TikTok

490
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: that much, is that this sounds like a lot of

491
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: other things that I have used. Though It's like the

492
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: idea of making it easier to pay, of storing your

493
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: payment information, of removing this friction, as you say, removing

494
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: these barriers, of offering these deals.

495
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: It's almost.

496
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: Kind of heartbreaking.

497
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: I don't know.

498
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: It feels like it's kind of following these other patterns

499
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 2: but perfecting on it, or like making it more difficult.

500
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 3: Yes, And so I guess that's one of the things

501
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: that I really want to point out in this episode

502
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 3: is that we should just be aware of how all

503
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: of these changes and tweaks incentivize us to buy, makes

504
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: it seamless to do so, and benefits platforms and retailers.

505
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: So if you have a little bit of a shopping problem,

506
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: which if you do, you should definitely talk to somebody

507
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 3: about that. But like you are, not just it's not

508
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: just happens dance. All of these digital changes make it

509
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 3: very very easy to buy, even when you don't want

510
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 3: the thing. Amanda Mall writes, a handful of small changes

511
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: to the mechanics of online shopping had begun to accumulate

512
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: into something meaningful. Advertisers were amassing stores of personal data

513
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: with which to tailor they're to ad targeting retailers were

514
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 3: offering free shipping and free returns on anything. Buy now,

515
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: decide later. Browsers and operating systems were urging users to

516
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: save login credentials and financial details with their software. The

517
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: expanded use of payment shortcuts like Apple Pay and Shopify

518
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: shop pay were circumventing the need to create a new

519
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 3: account or log into an old one. Buy now, pay

520
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: later services including Klarna and a firm were beginning to

521
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 3: pop up at more retailers to soften the blow of spending.

522
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 3: In the intervening five years, these changes have become the

523
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: default infrastructure of online shopping, maximizing convenience over all else

524
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: in an effort to make buying things as effortless as possible,

525
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 3: as retailers are all too eager to tell everyone, buying

526
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: things online has never been so simple, so seamless, so easy,

527
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: so easy in fact, that we might all be better

528
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 3: off with a few more speed bumps. And I mean

529
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: it sounds counterfintuitive, but I agree ease and convenience is great.

530
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: Like I am not above being taken in by convenience,

531
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: but when it comes to technology, convenience always comes at

532
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: a cost. And so the cost is that like maybe

533
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 3: we're all buying more junk than we actually mean to

534
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 3: buy because it is so easy and that ease. It

535
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: may seem convenient to us, but actually we're losing out,

536
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: and it's platforms and retailers who are benefiting.

537
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a joke that

538
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: a lot of us have said. That started with in

539
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: my opinion, Amazon, but it was like, to get the

540
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: free shipping, I need to spend a little bit more

541
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: on something else. But ultimately, are you saving more money

542
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 2: if you're buying something you didn't really want or need?

543
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: Just to get the free shipping. It's just like they've

544
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: convinced us, Oh, this is a deal though, this is

545
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: a deal.

546
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god, And it's so effective. Like the psychology

547
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: of how we spend is fascinating, like and we've all

548
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 3: felt it where you're like, oh, well, like when you

549
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: put here in DC, we're having a big conversation about

550
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 3: tipping and like how much you should tip if they

551
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 3: do an automatic tip whatever, And there's something about it,

552
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: like if you went to a restaurant and the hamburger

553
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: was ten dollars and you were like, okay, that's fine,

554
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 3: and then at the end of the meal it's like,

555
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: oh well, a twenty five percent service fee that's mandatory.

556
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: You're like, whoa, what is this? What is this like

557
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: aftermarket fee that I did not know about the psychology

558
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 3: of that is different than if the price of that

559
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: hamburger was twenty five percent. More like the way that

560
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: our brains work around prices and what's too high and

561
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: what's like you know, what is like a ceiling you

562
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: will not cross. It's so fascinating, but we've all experienced it, right,

563
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: and so part of me can't even blame the retailers

564
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 3: for taking advantage of these these quirks to our psychology.

565
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is fascinating because it's I think it's like

566
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: you feel when you feel like you're getting scammed as

567
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: you say, or or you're getting the deal, Like are

568
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: you coming out on top of this thing? Are you

569
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: coming out on bottom when all of it's kind of

570
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: capitalism that is screwing us all over exactly.

571
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: That's like if there was like a tagline to every

572
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: piece of content I make is that it's capitalism's fault,

573
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: Like that's the real the real enemy here. And something

574
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: else to note is that kind of like what you

575
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: were talking about, Samantha of you know, are you getting

576
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: something that is made lovingly by an artisan? Are you

577
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: getting like a piece of crap that's going to fall apart?

578
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: Some of the stuff that you can buy on TikTok

579
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: shop is not on the level right, Like this is

580
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: really speaking to when they first rolled out. I think

581
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: that they've kind of maybe normalized some of this now,

582
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: But when TikTok Shop first rolled out, the platform just

583
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 3: felt like you were getting served up ads for junk essentially.

584
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: Amanda mall That and a journalist I talked about earlier

585
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: She talked about TikTok spokesperson who said that their algorithm

586
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: plus human moderation was supposed to weed out bad products,

587
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: like if a product didn't match the item that was shipped,

588
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: or if like something was wrong with it. It used a

589
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: different image that a human plus an algorithm was supposed

590
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 3: to weed that out, but that sometimes it just didn't

591
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: work that effectively. Amanda writes, sometimes problems go unnoticed until

592
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: people start reporting issues, like the listing will use stock

593
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: images that don't depict the products they're actually selling, omit

594
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: important details on sizing or material or composition, or offer

595
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 3: counterfeit and potentially unsafe products. Even legitimate listings from scrupulous

596
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: sellers can make for a confusing or scammy feeling shopping

597
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: experience because sellers create a lot of duplicate listings for

598
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: the same products. That's especially common on TikTok, where sellers

599
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: rush to meet demand for the handful of products that

600
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: have captivated the platform at any particular moment, And I

601
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: think that's like why it can feel so scammy. When

602
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: I was doing my recent for the episode I did

603
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: with that influencer Pretty Critical, numerous people I talked to

604
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: said that they would never buy anything on TikTok. They

605
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: would never put their financial information into TikTok because something

606
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: about it just made it seem like you were gonna

607
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: get scammed if you did.

608
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 4: I mean, we definitely had money of stories.

609
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: Do you remember the pink sauce? Lady?

610
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: Oh, the pink ye'all? I tried the pink sauce. I

611
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: did not. I did not buy on TikTok. I bought

612
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: it omar. I wouldn't buy a food product on TikTok,

613
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 3: although more on that later. But did anyone try it?

614
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is.

615
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 4: Pink food weirds me on anyway like that, But I'm like, no,

616
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 4: I'm good. Yeah, you were more adventurous.

617
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, pink sauce was this condiment that I just got

618
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: a random lady on TikTok was making in her house

619
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 3: and it ret viral. You could buy it on TikTok.

620
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 3: It was bright pink. But then sometimes people would buy

621
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: it and they were like, oh, it was more like brown.

622
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: Like it was like there was clearly not a lot

623
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: of like no, because this is yeah, not a lot

624
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 3: of consistency happening, and people were like, oh, don't. Like

625
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: people would get the bottles and they would be like,

626
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: it's like you know when a bottle, like something is

627
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: going wrong with the product, and the bottle was like inflated,

628
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: people would be like, Oh, something's up with this. But

629
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: it was actually ended up being a situation where because

630
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: it went so viral, I think, like a legitimate food

631
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: retailer bought it and that's why I was able to

632
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: like buy a legitimate bottle of it in walmartket.

633
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, for the longest time, she had to stop production

634
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: because she got FDA coming on to her and they're like,

635
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 4: is this even tested? And like she would not talk

636
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 4: about what the ingredients were. There was milk involved and

637
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 4: it wasn't being like ice or anything. When it was

638
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 4: sent down and everybody was like okay, and everybody's bottle

639
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 4: had different colors.

640
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I this is like such an aside.

641
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: I remember when that was happening. She went on TikTok

642
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: Live and she was like, people are making fun of

643
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 3: my pink sauce of this that FDA approved. I don't

644
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: make medicine. I don't make a drug. Why would it

645
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: have to be FDA approved? And it was like, honey,

646
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: the first fic food though literally get it.

647
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you get people you're screwed. There's a lot

648
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: of building but yeah, like stuff like that.

649
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,239
Speaker 4: I know, there was a big conversation like who is

650
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: actually testing these things?

651
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: Who can say?

652
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 4: And like because she was getting big endorsements from people

653
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 4: like this is tasty, from people who had millions of

654
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 4: followers because she would just send them out for free,

655
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 4: and people were like the pickle lady. There's a pickled

656
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 4: person too who did the same thing. It was a

657
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: similar situation that everybody and then everybody had a backtrack

658
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 4: and then TikTok had a kind of backtrack and be

659
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 4: like okay, okay, calm down, everybody.

660
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: So this actually that's actually a good segue into another

661
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: issue with like TikTok shop feeling a little bit scammy

662
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 3: is the issue of like what happens when a product

663
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: on there is not just a dupe or like a

664
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: counterfeit product, but it's actually harmful because some of the

665
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: stuff that you get on TikTok, particularly stuff that you're consuming,

666
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: could be harmful if it's not actually being regulated. So

667
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: TikTok says that they ban the advertising and sale of

668
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: all counterfeit products quote. By ensuring the safety and authenticity

669
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: of products sold on our platform, we create a positive

670
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 3: shopping experience that users can have confidence in their policy says. However,

671
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 3: a guardian of report back in April suggests that these

672
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 3: rules were not being effectively enforced, with illicit beauty products

673
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: routinely being promoted to users via their content feeds and

674
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: search results. TikTok again takes a cut, so that means

675
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 3: that the platform was effectively profiting off of the sale

676
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 3: of illegal and or counterfeit goods. And so again it's

677
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: not just that this is like can be scammy, or

678
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: can be like counterfeit or whatever. It can be harmful.

679
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: TikTok bans the sale of prescription only medicines such as

680
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 3: acne skin cream or skin whitening creams that contain certain

681
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 3: band ingredients. But if you're on skincare TikTok, when the

682
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: skin product tretton Noen was taking off on the platform,

683
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 3: which you need a prescription for, you could buy it

684
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 3: easily on TikTok shop. So there's a reason and why

685
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: that skincare product is prescription only. It can lead to

686
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 3: interactions with other medications and calls fetal abnormalities have taken

687
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: while you're pregnant, and so it is recommended that you

688
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 3: use it under a doctor supervision. But if you're just

689
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: buying it on TikTok, you're obviously not using it under

690
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: a doctor supervision. The Guardian actually spoke to doctor Jane

691
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 3: Ravenscroft of the British Association of Dermatologists, who said that

692
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 3: the sale of illicit skincare creams was a major concern

693
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: and a major public health risk. She says, unfortunately, people

694
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 3: selling these prescription products illegally are preying on people's insecurities

695
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 3: and naivete. Social media adds fuel to this fire. TikTok

696
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 3: did eventually block searches for trettonoen and removed listings from

697
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: third party vendors that referred to that ingredient after The

698
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 3: Guardian published this report. But yeah, it's not just that

699
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: these products can be scammy or spammy or just counterfeit

700
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: or not at the level they could hurt you, like

701
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 3: if you take the medication the wrong way. It can

702
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: mess you up. If you eat something that has not

703
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 3: been FDA approved and it's a weird color and it's

704
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 3: like a dairy product that has not been kept cold,

705
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 3: you can get really sick. Like this is not a game,

706
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: it's serious, right, Yeah.

707
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: And I think one thing about this that again I

708
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: find interesting about the Human Psyche is that I once

709
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: tried to get desperately. I wanted these contacts for cosplay.

710
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: They're illegal in the US, and I was like, but

711
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: I can get them, though, and I could. I found

712
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: a way I could buy them. But you know, this

713
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: should have been a part of my mind that was

714
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: like wait though, and I never used them. But I think,

715
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: like it's a mistake to think that people who are

716
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: buying these things are stupid or they're not intelligent.

717
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a mistake.

718
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 2: If it's available and easy to buy, I totally understand it.

719
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: Like I totally get it, especially if you're seeing people

720
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: that you follow maybe respect relate to using a product

721
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, well they are using it, They're fine,

722
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: I'll use it too. So I think that's the key

723
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: thing to say.

724
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so glad you added that. I Yeah, Like,

725
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: I don't think that anybody who is buying things and

726
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: like diligently searching for them to buy them, even if

727
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 3: they're not like approved or whatever. If they're legal illegal here.

728
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: I don't think it's on them, It is on the platform. Like,

729
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 3: I don't think that a platform should be then making

730
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 3: money from that from that they don't thin they should

731
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: get it. I don't think that a platform should get

732
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: a cut from someone who has like made the decision

733
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 3: to seek out something that maybe is not legal here

734
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: for whatever reason. Right, Like, there's I'm big into sunscreens.

735
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of sunscreens that I like to use

736
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 3: that you can't just go into cvs in the United

737
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: States and buy, right, But Like, I think it's different

738
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 3: when a platform, a private company is taking a cut

739
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 3: of that illegal transaction. Right, Like, There's been a whole,

740
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 3: a whole situation of like parents who unfortunately lost their

741
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: kids because their kids brought illegal drugs on platforms like

742
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: TikTok or Snapchat, which apparently is like not really that difficult.

743
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: Imagine then if TikTok or Snapchat was also taking a

744
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 3: cut of that sale, right, Like, that wouldn't be acceptable.

745
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: And I think, I mean it's really an issue of

746
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 3: like I don't blame the individual who's making that choice,

747
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: but I don't think that platform should be financially benefiting

748
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: from it because then it's incentivized absolutely.

749
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: So, as you said, this is a pretty new thing

750
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: and uh TikTok shop and it's been a little bit

751
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: of a rough rollout. What do you think is in

752
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 2: the future for it? Is it here to stay?

753
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 3: This is a great question. I guess the answer I

754
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 3: will give is maybe tbd. We will see. I think

755
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 3: it kind of depends on how Black Friday goes for TikTok.

756
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: This kind of shopping functionality is much more common in China,

757
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 3: where TikTok is based with brands like Timu, and I

758
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 3: think that TikTok is kind of betting that will take

759
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: off here too. It's a lot less like Amazon. Like

760
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 3: when I first started researching this, I was like, Oh,

761
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 3: they're trying to be like Amazon with content. It's more

762
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 3: like Sheian with content, right, So, like, imagine if like Amazon,

763
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: Shean and TikTok all merged into one super app where

764
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: you consumed content and also made content and also shopped.

765
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: Social and live shopping is huge across Asia. Wired reports

766
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: that in China alone, live shopping is expected to drive

767
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: nearly twenty percent of online shopping this year. And I

768
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: think that it's when when Elon Musk decided that he

769
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: was going to try to change the name of Twitter

770
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 3: to X. I think that he was trying to turn

771
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 3: X into like a super app where you are having

772
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: making social content, talking to people, but also banking, also

773
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: watching video, right, Like, I don't know if that is

774
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 3: going to really take off in the United States. Like

775
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit of a cultural shift to

776
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: that that sort of thing. Facebook and in both tried

777
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 3: to do live shopping functionality and then later phase them out,

778
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: so it didn't work for them. And I just think

779
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 3: that maybe we're not really I don't know, I don't

780
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: know if we are really down to shop that way

781
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: in the United States. Like, look at Amazon when I shop. Unfortunately,

782
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: I do use Amazon. I know. I like to buy

783
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: my groceries from Whole Foods when I can, which Amazon owns.

784
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: I use One Medical as my healthcare provider. Amazon owns

785
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 3: that too. Here in DC, my local newspaper is the

786
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 3: Washington Post. Well, guess who owns that Amazon. I'm not

787
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 3: thrilled about this, and I don't think that most people

788
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: are thrilled with the idea of one place being where

789
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: they get a lot of their needs met. And I

790
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: think that TikTok is kind of betting that this is

791
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: just the inevitable future of the Internet and social media

792
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: and commerce, and that we're all going to get used

793
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 3: to it. I saw a report that TikTok is actually

794
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: planning on selling and delivering groceries and the United States soon.

795
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 3: I haven't been able to verify that, but I did

796
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 3: see a report indicating that it might sound hard to believe,

797
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: but in twenty twenty two, TikTok did announce that people

798
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 3: could now purchase fresh and frozen food directly from TikTok

799
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: shop in the UK. So it's not that far fetched

800
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: that they would then be like, well, we want to

801
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: be where you make contact, where you consume content, where

802
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 3: you get your groce fees, where you buy your novelty goods, everything.

803
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 3: And I think that's kind of my point in bringing

804
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 3: this to you all today, is that, like you know,

805
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: with technology like this, it may start out as convenient,

806
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 3: but convenience always comes at a cost when it comes

807
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: to technology. If one tech company becomes the end all

808
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: be all of how we consume everything, how we buy everything,

809
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: we could see a dynamic where they can really do

810
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: whatever they want because what are we going to do?

811
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 3: Go elsewhere their everything?

812
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: You know, Amazon's trying to sell cars.

813
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 3: Oh you rightly so much? At what point is it

814
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: like we don't need to get everything from you? Like

815
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 3: fair if I want to get a car, I can like,

816
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: are you gonna sell houses? Like what's next?

817
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: What is happening? Yeah? I will.

818
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 4: I find it interesting that TikTok has got done this

819
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 4: because again we've talked about the algorithm, and so when

820
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 4: you click on something for I've done this on Facebook.

821
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 4: This is where I'm like, I feel like a boomer

822
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 4: or I've accidentally clicked on a link of advertising and

823
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 4: then then from then on I just kept getting that

824
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 4: one advertising. So I'm thinking like with TikTok being the

825
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 4: way their algorithm is is kind of similar to that word.

826
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 4: They just get almost obsessive, like U slaw. This is

827
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 4: one thing I'm going to show you twenty times. This

828
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 4: is the one thing. So how does that how that's

829
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 4: going to kind of break TikTok in my head because

830
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 4: that's not what like you want the algorithm, but not

831
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 4: that very specific algorithm.

832
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to be stalked by one pair

833
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: of boots that I happen to click on once that

834
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: I might not even want, Like that's just not the

835
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 3: experience that I want for my digital ecosystem. It's like

836
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: I just I just think that we deserve better, Like

837
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 3: I think that, you know. It makes me feel a

838
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 3: bit sad, like the end all be all of the

839
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 3: promise of technology is like how can we get people

840
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: to click on stuff and sell them things? Like I

841
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 3: want to have digital media platforms where I'm learning things,

842
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 3: where I'm experiencing things, where I'm having community. And it

843
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: just makes me sad that, like it seems like the

844
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: end all be all is just like how can we

845
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 3: sell more junk? I hate that right right?

846
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: And then talking about the fact that TikTok was originally

847
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 4: for younger generations, younger kids, and how easy it is

848
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 4: to buy this could be a parent's worst nightmare.

849
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 3: Oh yes, NBC actually did a report all about how

850
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 3: minors like young people are selling products on TikTok shop,

851
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 3: even though that is against TikTok's policies. All they have

852
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 3: to do is lie about their age. But like, just imagine,

853
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 3: like me a grown woman getting sold a pair of

854
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 3: leggings by like a sixteen year old in between their classes.

855
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 3: It is just dystopian. It's just very weird.

856
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: That makes me said, yeah, I was gonna say dystopian too,

857
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: because it feels like not only are they trying to

858
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 2: all of these tech companies are trying to take over

859
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: like every avenue of our lives. It's hard to imagine

860
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: the time before something like Amazon for me, But it's

861
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 2: also they want you to spend all of your time there,

862
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 2: all of your time consuming the content, buying the things,

863
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: and it's just like a cycle where you're trapped and

864
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 2: all of your time is right there.

865
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: Yes, and that is exactly the dynamic that I want

866
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: for all of us to break free from. Like we

867
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: already give these platforms so much, they already take so

868
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 3: much from us. They don't have to take everything. And

869
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: I guess I worry that we're going to get to

870
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: a place where this is going to be more normalized

871
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 3: that like they just they want all of your time

872
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: and all of your money and all of your energy,

873
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 3: and I don't think we should give it to them.

874
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 3: So this holiday, I really want us to make smart

875
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: choices about how and what and why we buy. You know,

876
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 3: if you're finding yourself buying stuff that you don't need

877
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 3: on social media. Ask some question, like do you really

878
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 3: need that item? Put it in your cart and see

879
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 3: how that feels for a while. Don't click buy right away.

880
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: Are you clicking this because it's easy, because you're bored,

881
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: because it's like a dopamine hit, Like, really, ask some

882
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 3: questions about why it is you're buying things. Oh and

883
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: if you really hate TikTok shop and you don't want

884
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 3: to see any more of those eligible for commission videos,

885
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: you can actually turn it off. If you go to

886
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: your profile on TikTok, open the menu in the top right,

887
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: hit settings and Privacy content preferences, filter video keywords, and

888
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 3: then add hashtag TikTok shop. You will not have to

889
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 3: see those ads anymore. My holiday gift from me to you.

890
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 3: You're welcome, Thank you.

891
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: I need this.

892
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: I love that. And I actually was thinking about this.

893
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: I think it'd be interesting to come back after this

894
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: has been around for a little bit longer. Because you

895
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 2: also did the episode bridget on de influencing on TikTok,

896
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: so I feel likek the there's an interesting intersection there

897
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: of like that was happening where people were saying, okay,

898
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 2: let's get de influenced to now you have TikTok shop,

899
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 2: So what does that look like?

900
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 3: That's such an interesting question. I'm so curious to see because,

901
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 3: like I do think that people want like more authentic

902
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 3: online experiences that are not just like bye bye bye.

903
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 3: And I think that's why we saw deinfluencing pop up

904
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 3: as a trend. So how will that bump up alongside

905
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: TikTok shop taking off?

906
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: We will see yes, yes, well.

907
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 2: Thank you so much as always Bridget for taking the

908
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: time for breaking this down for us. We love to

909
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: have you. Hopefully we'll have you back for some scream

910
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 2: stuff along with the tech content that we love.

911
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?

912
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 3: You can find me at my podcast there are no

913
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: girls on the Internet. You can find me on Instagram

914
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 3: at Bridget Marie and DC or on Twitter at Bridget Marie.

915
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 2: Thank you again so much, and listeners, if you would

916
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: like to contact us you can. You can find us

917
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 2: email us at Stephania mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

918
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter, a podcasts, or on

919
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: Instagram and TikTok at stuff. One never told you we

920
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: have a book that you can get wherever you get

921
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 2: your books. We have a tea public score. Thanks as

922
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: always too, our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya,

923
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: and our contributor Joey.

924
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: Thank you.

925
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You

926
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 2: is a protection by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

927
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 2: my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio,

928
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,