1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:01,720 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 2: Chuck here with a Saturday Select, bringing you one all 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 2: the way back from August twenty eighteen. A nice summer episode. 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: Who Is the Man of the Whole? This is very interesting. 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 2: The Man of the Holes was somebody who lived by 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: himself as an uncontacted human, well pretty much uncontacted. A 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: very interesting story. Sometimes I wish I was the Man 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: of the Whole. But check it out right now. Who 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 2: is the Man of the Hole? Welcome to Stuff You 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 11 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 3: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. So I'm Josh Clark, 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 3: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Jerome Brolind. Boy, 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 3: I'm not in a good way today, Chuck, you off 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 3: your game, as if you can't tell I think you're fine. Well, thanks, man, 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: I feel a lot better. Sure, Yeah, no, I'm okay. 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 3: I can tell you. I'm I'm surrounded by friend's family. 17 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: Like your dad's in the corner. It's weird. 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 3: I have the idea I have TV. Oh man. I 19 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: instagrammed a photo of my mom and dad from the seventies. Yeah, 20 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 3: and I captioned it They're like looking at each other 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,639 Speaker 3: kind of lovingly and I captioned it the moment before 22 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 3: I was conceived. 23 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: You know what Jerry showed me that today? 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she did. I look a lot like my 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: parents mixed together. Huh. 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: Well. 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: The first thing I noticed was like, Wow, that's that's 28 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 2: what Josh would have looked like as a grown man 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies. 30 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: Because that profile. 31 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: Of your dad, I don't know, I've never seen your 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: dad young, So I was like, man, that's really that's you. 33 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally saw it. I saw both. 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, because you look at my dad, You're like, oh, 35 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: that's Josh. But then you look at my mom, You're like, oh, 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: there's Josh too. Very bizarre. 37 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I guess I definitely favor my father, 38 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: is that right? 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, So a lot of people just favor one or 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: the other. But I'm fifty to. 41 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: Fifty Yep, that's kay all fifty to fifty. 42 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a new one. 43 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: There's a T shirt, Yeah, fifty to fifty Clark. 44 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: So, oh, I know the point I was making. There's 45 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 3: this House Stuff Works article that you sent called The 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: Man in the Hole, and it talks about this guy 47 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: who is the last of his kind, he's, as this 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 3: article put it, like the loneliest person on Earth. And 49 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm sure this is 50 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 3: a lot like being in solitary confinement or something like that, 51 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 3: but no, this is way beyond that. And this house 52 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 3: stuff works article byes Lynn Shields like really drove it home. 53 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 3: She wrote, like, what if you were the last person 54 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: who could speak your language, the last person who remembered 55 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: what Halloween was, or a Coca cola, or that a 56 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: dog says wolf, Like, imagine that, And I'm like, yeah, 57 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 3: that's way different from being in solitary. Solitary confinement would 58 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: be bad enough. You know, you're physically restrained, but at 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 3: least you'd know out there that there are other people 60 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: who know the same things you know, that speak the 61 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 3: same language you speak, that your family's still out there, 62 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 3: that kind of thing. This is utterly different. And this man, 63 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 3: the last Tribesman he's called or the Man in the Hole, 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: is possibly not just the last of his kind. He 65 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: might be the only person on the entire planet in 66 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: the situation that he's in. Maybe isn't that bizarre to think? 67 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we did another show on are There 68 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: Undiscovered People? Quite a few years back, and I don't 69 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: know how he didn't get to this guy, but I 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: saw this article and it was striking, especially if you've 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: seen the couple of videos, and I think there are 72 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: only two pieces of video of this dude. One I 73 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: saw where they were sort of shooting, you know, they 74 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: were zoomed in on a hut, and that's you know, 75 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 2: where he lives. There's a series of thatched huts in 76 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: the Tenaru Indigenous Reserve in the Rondonia state of Brazil, YEP. 77 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: About twenty thousand acres big area of the forest in jungle. 78 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: So he lives in these thatched huts that are scattered 79 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: about in the middle of nowhere, and they were able 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: to get him on film kind of zoomed in between 81 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: the cracks and you see the guy kind of looking 82 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: a little bit, but you can't make out much. So 83 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: I saw that video and then I saw another one 84 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: where it was a pretty good shot of him from 85 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: a distance making good work trying to chop down a tree. 86 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: That was the most recent video, which well, let's just. 87 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: Go ahead and get into this. 88 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: He was found or discovered in I think in nineteen 89 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: ninety six when some loggers from the State of Rondonia. 90 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 3: Which from the impression I have, this is a very 91 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: rough and tumble state populated by loggers and cattle ranchers, 92 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: and there are very few laws from what I understand, 93 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 3: and things are settled by the gun. Is the impression 94 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: that I have of Rondnia. It's right smack dab in 95 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: the middle of South America, and it's extraordinarily densely jungled 96 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 3: in the Amazon. 97 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that. 98 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: One New York Times article, like the guy was talking 99 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 2: that they were talking to said, from a helicopter, you 100 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: look down there and you think there's just no one 101 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: down there. 102 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: It's just all jungle, he said. 103 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: But when you get down there, he said, there's a 104 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: lot of people and drug runners and bad men everywhere. 105 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: So this guy is definitely an anomaly because he is 106 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: not hanging out with anybody. 107 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 3: No. And the reason why they think he's alone, Chuck, 108 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 3: is because back in nineteen ninety five nineteen ninety six, 109 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: when the rumors of like a wild man in the 110 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: jungle started to circulate, they think that he had just 111 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: recently survived a slaughter that had killed off the rest 112 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 3: of his tribe. 113 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: Which was only like supposedly five or six people by 114 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: that point, because they think the rest had been slaughtered 115 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 2: and't that that's a common thing We're going to come 116 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: up on in a couple of these is these ranchers 117 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: and loggers. They're like, we want to go clear this land, 118 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: and there's a tribe, a native tribe, they're an indigenous tribe, 119 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: so let's just slaughter them, get them out of the way. 120 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: It's really, really an awful, awful thing. 121 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 3: And it's been a very common thing apparently since the 122 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: seventies and eighties, when ranchers and loggers moved into Rondonia, 123 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: just snatching up land. And this is again, this is 124 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: the Amazon. This is basically Christine Forest rainforest that people 125 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 3: who have never been contacted by anyone from the outside 126 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: world live still to this day. And this guy's one 127 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: of them. So at first they thought maybe Hughes just 128 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: a member of a tribe that we already know about, right, 129 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 3: And then over time as they started to study this guy, 130 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 3: it became quite clear that now Hughes, he's a member 131 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: of a tribe that we didn't know about before, and 132 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: we're pretty sure he's the last of his kind. 133 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's this organization called Funai fu NAI, the 134 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: National Indian Foundation of Brazil, and they have been tasked 135 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: with for the past twenty years monitoring this dude, and 136 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: before his companions were killed, monitoring his companions. And you 137 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: sent a nice follow up on FUNAI. They have a 138 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: departments and one is called the General Coordination Unit of 139 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: Uncontacted Indians the CGII, and that was established in nineteen 140 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: eighty seven and they're the only a department of government 141 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: in the world which protects indigenous peoples who don't have 142 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 2: contact with the outside world or nearby tribes. 143 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, because before in the nineteenth century and even through 144 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: a lot of the twentieth century, there was it was 145 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: just basically Christian missionaries who were making their way into 146 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 3: the Amazon to contact tribes and bring them Jesus basically, 147 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 3: and also healthcare and food and all that stuff tools 148 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 3: the implements of modern culture, but also to proselytize too, 149 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 3: and there was a lot of it just wasn't very 150 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 3: well thought out. And as a result, even from these 151 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 3: these the best of intentions that a lot of these 152 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 3: missionaries had a lot of tribes died. So in nineteen 153 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 3: ten Brazil came up with their I think it was 154 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: like the Indian Protection Services was the name of the 155 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 3: department that they first came up with, and the Indian 156 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: Protection Service they took over from the missionaries, and it 157 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: was a step up in that sense because it was 158 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 3: more coordinated. There was thought to it, there was some 159 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 3: sort of study, but the point was to take uncontacted 160 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: Amazonian tribes and bring them into the modern world so 161 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: that they could assimilate with the modern world. The point 162 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 3: was to basically reduce cultural diversity in Brazil and that 163 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: kept going until the sixties when there was a huge 164 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 3: ExPASy about the Indian Protection Service that they had just 165 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 3: fallen down so terribly in their mission that there was 166 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: basically mass extermination, slavery, rape, everything, every horrible thing that 167 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: you can think of that could befall a human being 168 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 3: happened to these tribes under the watch of the Indian 169 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: Services Protection over sixty years. 170 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, So. 171 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: The department in nineteen eighty seven, the CGII was founded 172 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: by a man named Sidney Posuelo. I guess how you 173 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: pronounced that. And this was a big sea change in policy, 174 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 2: which was, like you were saying, the previous strategy established 175 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: contact to try and get them integrated at some point 176 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: to this new policy, which was don't even contact these 177 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 2: people unless they are under serious threat, because history has 178 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 2: shown all manner of bad things can happen when you 179 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: contact these people, one of which is certainly introducing them 180 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: to new diseases and things that will kill them that 181 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: they've never never seen or experienced. And this is you know, 182 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 2: there's a big debate still on, like what the best 183 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 2: policies are here. 184 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, So these two American anthropologists, white American anthropologists, men 185 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: who I guess, wrote an open letter in either Science 186 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: or Nature, I think Nature, basically saying Brazil and Peru 187 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 3: should reverse this long standing policy of not contacting Indians 188 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 3: in the Amazon and should actually plan peaceful, well organized 189 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: contact so that they can be better protected. It's these 190 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 3: anthropologists stants that if you don't protect them, they're going 191 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 3: to die one way or another. That there's no way 192 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: that they're going to remain isolated. On the long term. 193 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 3: Maybe you've got another generation possibly of some of these 194 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 3: tribes that could live like this, but beyond that, it's 195 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: just not going to happen. There's too many power, powerful 196 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: interests banging on the doors of their preserved areas. Who 197 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: are more than willing to hire people who will accept 198 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: money to go kill these people just to get this land. 199 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: And by just leaving them alone, you're leaving them very vulnerable. 200 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 3: Whereas if you plan out contact, then conceivably you can 201 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: show them that there are things like medical treatment, there 202 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: is better ways that you can protect them. You can 203 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: kind of give them contact, and that even more so 204 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 3: interviews with groups that have become have initiated contact or 205 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: have had contact made with them said we would have 206 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: made contact with you guys earlier, but we thought we 207 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: were going to be enslaved or murdered or something. We 208 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 3: had no idea that you wanted to actually help us. 209 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 3: Had we known that, we would have contacted you guys 210 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: decades ago. So those two things put together, these American 211 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 3: anthropologists have said we endorse this, and fu NI and 212 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 3: a lot of other groups, including the UN and human 213 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: rights group in the UK called Survivors International, have said, no, 214 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 3: that is totally disrespectful, that flies completely in the face 215 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 3: of agreed upon procedure and protocol. Just be quiet, you're 216 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 3: being neo colonialists. Yeah. 217 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: I think it's interesting though, because what they're trying to 218 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: do is, like you said, have very highly controlled contact, 219 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: and the assumption that they don't want to be contacted, 220 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: at least through their eyes, appears to be false because, 221 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: like you mentioned, they're afraid of being kidnapped or something 222 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: or overtaken. And if had they known, like, oh, you 223 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: just want to give us some nice tools and maybe 224 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 2: inoculate us, and we'd actually be. 225 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: Down with that as long as you leave afterward. 226 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: Right, And these two anthropologists said, like, you've got to 227 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: do this smartly, Like you basically have to go in 228 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: with cultural translators, usually tribes who have made contact with 229 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: outsiders before, already ablished contact that live in the same area, 230 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 3: who might be able to translate between the outsiders and 231 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: the actual uncontacted tribes. And you need healthcare providers who 232 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: are going to stay there for at least a year, 233 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 3: at least a year of sustained care or else. Yes, 234 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: they're going to die from these diseases you're going to 235 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 3: bring in inevitable. 236 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're good. 237 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: They give good examples too in that article about how 238 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: this is backfired with missionaries, like the your people, they 239 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: were there for six months and the missionary said, well, 240 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: let's go on vacation and then the Yora died a 241 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: few weeks later, and then in nineteen seventy five, missionaries 242 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: provided care to a community on Ake community they took 243 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 2: a vacation and then they died as well. So they're 244 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: saying like, you got to have a plan to go 245 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: in and stay there. You can't just go in, bring 246 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: them some food and machetes and acculate like spring break, 247 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: and then then get out of there. But I get 248 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: the idea that this is still a pretty hot topic 249 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: of debate. 250 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, that those anthropologists, they set off a 251 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: huge debate, and I think it was sparked by the 252 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 3: video that was released by Survivor International of the man 253 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: and the Hole chopping down a tree. And the video 254 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: was taken in twenty eleven, but they only just released 255 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: it in July of twenty eighteen. And this is, yeah, 256 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 3: this is very much still going on, this big debate 257 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: and it's a huge it's a huge issue and you 258 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: can kind of see both sides. Like I had just 259 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 3: read about Fooneye's counter to it that like, look, dude, 260 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: this is our thing. We got this. You just mind 261 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 3: your own business. We have our own policy, stay out right, 262 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 3: stay out of this. Yeah, But then if you read 263 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 3: the anthropologists letters, you're like, actually, they have a couple 264 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 3: of good points here. So it's it's not a clear 265 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 3: cut a picture, sure, one way or the other. It's 266 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 3: definitely there's a lot of nuance to it on both sides. 267 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: All Right, let's take a respite, let's take a furlough 268 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 3: or a vacation. 269 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll come back and talk a little bit 270 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: more about the man in the hole. 271 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: All right. 272 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: So the reason they call him the man of the 273 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: hole or the man in the hole is the odd 274 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: thing of inside these thatched huts, of which he has 275 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: several around this area. Inside the huts are these and 276 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: all over the place there are these holes with like 277 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: spikes for like trapping animals. But he has these six 278 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: foot deep holes inside of his own huts, and apparently 279 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: no other tribes around him have done this, and it's 280 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: very unusual thing. And the belief is that he is 281 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 2: it's for his own protection. I guess if he's being 282 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 2: fired upon or something by loggers, he can jump down 283 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: on one of these holes. 284 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the impression I have too, which is extraordinarily sad. 285 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: It is. 286 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 3: So the reason why they think that that he has 287 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 3: these holes is because he's had terrible run ins. I 288 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 3: guess this seems to be evidence that he is the 289 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 3: survivor of a slaughter or a massacre, because this is 290 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: not a normal technique that they've seen with other tribes, 291 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: and they found it at every single one of the 292 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 3: huts that they've come upon of his. 293 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 294 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: They do know though, from tailing him or mon tailing him, 295 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,239 Speaker 2: monitoring him for the past couple of decades though, that 296 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: he he hunts with a bone arrow. He farms probably 297 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: at night and stays out of the you know, as 298 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: much as he can. Stays inside during the day out 299 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: of fear, which is also awful. But he farms like 300 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 2: papaya and corn and other fruits and vegetables. He has 301 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: all these traps set everywhere. Like I mentioned, they have 302 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,959 Speaker 2: found hand carved arrowheads, torches made from branches in Resin 303 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: And at one point they actually tried to make. 304 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 3: Contact, yes, several points. 305 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: Well, at one point when they tried to make contact, though, 306 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 2: he fired upon them with his bow and arrow and 307 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: actually hit someone. 308 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 3: In the chest, one of the food iye agents. 309 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were like, all right, we're out of here. 310 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. At that point they stopped trying to initiate contact 311 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 3: with this guy. And again, this is like peaceful contact 312 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: they're trying to initiate, not like hey man, get off 313 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 3: of this land. They're like saying, do you need anything? 314 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: Do you want some food? What do you want? And 315 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 3: the first few attempts to contact him resulted in him 316 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 3: just basically slipping into the shadows in the jungle and 317 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: just disappearing. Then it progressed into standoffs. Then it progressed 318 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: into a shooting, and so they stepped back. Survivor International 319 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 3: and FUNAI and some other groups stepped back and said, 320 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 3: this guy is escalating in hostilities. He's showing us he 321 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: doesn't want anything to do with us, like you. It 322 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 3: would be something if like he'd shot the first time 323 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: and then slipped away the second time and the hostilities 324 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 3: were decreasing, but instead it's going the opposite way. The 325 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 3: hostilities were increasing. So he's getting that he has the 326 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 3: opportunity to contact these people who are coming with their 327 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 3: hands up and like not trying to kill him, and 328 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 3: he's still saying back off. So finally the government said 329 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: we're just going to back off, and they backed off. 330 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 3: They FUNAI established his policy of not contacting this guy, 331 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 3: not even attempting to contact this guy, but instead monitoring him, 332 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 3: making sure that his preserve is protected, and then leaving 333 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 3: him things like the acts that he was seen using 334 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: in that twenty eleven video, or seeds for some of 335 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 3: the plants that he grows. 336 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, which a lot of times he doesn't even accept 337 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 2: or take these gifts. Imagine he's not retrusting. And like 338 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: you said, as far as protecting the area, in two 339 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: thousand and seven, Funai and the government eventually increase the 340 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 2: area to thirty one square miles around where he was 341 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: is off limits to any trespassing or development, later expanded 342 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: to three thousand hectares. 343 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 3: So I think they added another three thousand. 344 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: Hectares, okay to the already square mileage. 345 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 346 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: And this is really ticked off the ranchers and the 347 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: loggers because they're like, our business is being held back 348 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: by this one guy. 349 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they want to kill. 350 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: Him, to kill him. As a matter of fact, when 351 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 3: the government announced that it was not only keeping up 352 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 3: the practice of preserving this guy's land thirty one square miles, 353 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 3: but adding an extra three thousand hectares, which brought the 354 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: total to forty two and a half square miles or 355 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 3: one hundred and ten square kilometers that this man has 356 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: to himself. The five ranches that surround this preserve hired 357 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 3: somebody to go try to kill him. Yeah, Fu and 358 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: I went and checked on him after a couple of 359 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 3: weeks after that announcement was made public, and they found 360 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: that their outpost was ransacked and that they had found 361 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 3: the shotgun shells spent shotgun shells in the fourth floor. 362 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 3: So there's clearly an attempt to made on the guy's life, 363 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: and for a couple of years they had no idea 364 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 3: if he'd survived until that video was made in twenty 365 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 3: eleven that showed this guy who is now fifty. They've 366 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 3: been tracking him since he was in his third fifties. 367 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 3: Now they chopping down a tree. Yeah, chopping down a 368 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 3: tree like it's nothing. So they knew that he was 369 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 3: alive and in good health as of twenty eleven, and 370 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: they're assuming that he's still alive. 371 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: Man, how good would a movie be about this guy? 372 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 2: I know, just have a lot of it play out 373 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 2: in silence, you know. 374 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be amazing. 375 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: That would be cool. 376 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's crazy to see a video of 377 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: this guy from seven years ago. Like in the world 378 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: we live in, to think about there's still places on 379 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 2: earth where this guy it's almost like the Japanese straggler 380 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: who had no idea that the war had been over 381 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: for whatever thirty years living in the jungle. It's just 382 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: amazing to think about the fact that this is the 383 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: lone the lone guy out there by himself and what 384 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: his life must be like. 385 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 3: But not only that, it's like like when we did 386 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 3: the paramedics episode, I think I said something like, there's 387 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,959 Speaker 3: there's no greater symbol of humanity than paramedics, you know, 388 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 3: I think this is another really great symbol of paramedics 389 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 3: in this guy. Well. No, the Funai Brazilian government's response 390 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 3: to this that this man has been part of a tribe. 391 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 3: He's the last of his tribe, and the Brazilian government 392 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 3: has said, this man deserves to live his life out 393 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 3: in peace in the way that he he wants to, 394 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 3: in his traditional way, to be left alone. And we're 395 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 3: going to designate one hundred and ten square kilometers that 396 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: belong to no one but this man. Yeah, despite the 397 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 3: fact that all around him is the outside world trying 398 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 3: to press in. We're going to stand in the way 399 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 3: of that so that this guy can live out his 400 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 3: natural life. That just gets me, you know, right in 401 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 3: the bread basket. 402 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the Disney version of this movie is 403 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: they would find alone tribeswoman somewhere, drop her off and 404 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: have them have them meet cute by the papie tree. 405 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the ranchers want to tickle him. But if 406 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: it were live action these days, it would be they 407 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 3: would hire either John Wayne or Fisher Stevens to play 408 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 3: the last time. 409 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: Fisher Stevens. 410 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, remember he played the Indian programmer in Short Circuit. 411 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: Really well, that's right, yeah, geez. 412 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was as recently as the eighties. 413 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: Right, It's not like Mickey Rooney, you playing an Asian 414 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 2: man in the nineteen sixties. Not like that was any better. No, boy, Hollywood, 415 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 2: you've been getting wrong for so long. 416 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 3: They have. At least Mongol got it right though, right maybe, Yeah, 417 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 3: we haven't seen him reserve judgment. 418 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: Should we take another break? 419 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, We'll take another break and talk a 420 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,239 Speaker 2: little bit more about some of these isolated tribes right 421 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: after this. 422 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 3: Okay, Chuck, So the last Tribesman, the man in the hole. 423 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: He's being left alone, and that's policy in Brazil and Peru. 424 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 3: From what I understand now, there are some tribes that 425 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 3: have actually accepted contact and have made peaceful contact and 426 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 3: have become I guess a little more integrated. I think 427 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 3: there's three degrees that FUNAI separates tribes into indigenous tribes 428 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 3: into there's totally uncontacted, which is like they are living 429 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 3: off on their own, they outside world has nothing to 430 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 3: do with them. There's partially contacted or partially assimilated, right, 431 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: like they're they're living in their hut in the jungle, 432 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: but they still have an iPhone, right. And then there's 433 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 3: fully assimilated, where they like live in a city now 434 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 3: or something like that, or they have like a job 435 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: in the city or something like that. So it's not 436 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 3: just in the Amazon. It's not just in Brazil where 437 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 3: there are uncontacted tribes, although that is definitely the place 438 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 3: where you're going to find the most. I think I 439 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 3: saw somewhere between fifty eighty and one hundred and twenty 440 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 3: uncontacted groups of indigenous people are presumed to be living 441 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 3: in the Amazon still today. 442 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean just those that random swath of numbers 443 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: shows you that they there's still so much they don't know. 444 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 3: For sure, but there's there are other parts of the 445 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 3: world where there are uncontacted tribes, and you found an 446 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 3: article that ran down a few of them. One that 447 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 3: surprised me was just off the coast of India, on 448 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 3: Sentinel Island in India, North Sentinel, a. 449 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: Good ole cracked article which may have been done under 450 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: the watch of our now colleague mister Jack O'Brien. Nice 451 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 2: shout out to Jack and his daily Zeitgei, Zeitgei's podcast, Yeah, 452 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: which I was on. 453 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 3: Have you been on? 454 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: You? 455 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 3: You gotta be on. It's great, great fun. As a 456 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 3: matter of fact, I'm gonna lap you. I'm gonna go 457 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 3: on again. 458 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well please. 459 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 3: Do all right? 460 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, But the sentine Leese on North Sentinel Island, Indiana, 461 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: they don't even know if that's their real name. They 462 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: just call them that because I guess we have called 463 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: it North Sentinel Island, not you and me, but other 464 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 2: people who. 465 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: Named it to I think the British. 466 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: But apparently yeah, probably. We don't know a lot about them. 467 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 2: But in two thousand and six, a couple of fishermen 468 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 2: drifted there in their boat near the island and were 469 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: killed and buried in shallow graves, and helicopters came and 470 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: they were like, we got to find this burial site 471 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 2: and get these guys back at least, and they started 472 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: firing arrows at the helicopter and it was just out 473 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 2: of there, and the local cops were like, now, we're 474 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 2: just gonna leave those guys there, We're not going near it. 475 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: They have actually for this has been going on for 476 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 3: a very long time. Apparently Marco Polo remarked on them, 477 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 3: wrote about them. He was traveling I think the twelfth 478 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 3: or thirteenth century, so they've been fierce for years now, 479 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 3: and apparently survived the two thousand and four tsunami. Yeah, 480 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 3: Indonesia's tsunami. That's crazy because this is an island that 481 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 3: the tsunami just swamped and they managed to hang on 482 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 3: just fine. 483 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: I think ancient people have survived more than one tsunami, 484 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: you know. 485 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 3: I guess you're right. That was a pretty bad one though. 486 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty amazing. This other one, the coral Wai tribe 487 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 2: of Papua Indonesia. They were contacted in the seventies by 488 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: of course, missionaries and archaeologists, and they were using stone 489 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: tools and living in tree huts and stuff like that, 490 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: and their big belief as a tribe was that the 491 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: world would be destroyed by an earthquake if they assimilated 492 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: and changed their customs. So missionary said, all right, you 493 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: know what, We're just going to leave you alone. 494 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 3: What I think these people might have invented bungee jumping? 495 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 3: Do you remember that land diving up isode them? They 496 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 3: sound really familiar. 497 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: I think it might be maybe so, But they are 498 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere, so it's a long way 499 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 2: from even like other remote villages. 500 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: Which is a I mean, that's a mark in your 501 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: favor for now. But as the Amazon Basin has been 502 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: showing us since the seventies and eighties, so much of 503 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 3: it has disappeared due to clear cutting for ranching, logging, 504 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 3: that you just have no idea how much longer that's 505 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 3: going to hold up, no matter where you are in 506 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 3: the world. Yeah, I mean, we're at seven and a 507 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 3: half billion people now, and then I think the next 508 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 3: thirty years we're expected to hit ten billion. That's a 509 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 3: lot more people that not only need more land, but 510 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: also are going to be using up those resources that 511 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 3: are currently on that land. 512 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: Right now, you know, yeah, for sure. 513 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 3: I mean, like, if they discover oil where the Krawai 514 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 3: tribe lives in Indonesia, there goes that isolation. 515 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, probably so. 516 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 3: I think that's a real danger for all tribes. I 517 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: think that's probably what those two anthropologists we're talking about. 518 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 3: They're saying, like, long term, we need a plan here everybody. 519 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 3: We can't just be like, well, we just won't contact 520 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: them because it's just not viable, I think was their point. 521 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, what about this one really was interesting to me. 522 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: The Old Believers. Have you ever heard of them? 523 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like some GQ article in the last couple 524 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 3: of years about that. 525 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: Are they well dressed it? 526 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 3: I think so? In burlap apparently. 527 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, these are Soviet Well, here's the deal. 528 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy eight, there were these geologists in the 529 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: Soviet Union that we're looking for iron ore. They were 530 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 2: in a helicopter and they saw a cabin way out 531 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: in the remote areas of Siberia, and they found a 532 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: family there that actually spoke a language I guess, I mean, 533 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: what would that be. 534 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: What language? 535 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 3: Old timey Russian? 536 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: Old timey Russian, uh huh. 537 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: And they were huddled in fear and they were yelling, 538 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 2: this is for our sins. They were dressed in burlap 539 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 2: and living off the land. And apparently they were a 540 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 2: group of people called the Old Believers, which left the 541 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 2: Russian Church, the main Russian church in the seventeenth century 542 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,479 Speaker 2: and had been I guess looked at you know, they 543 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: kind of went everywhere. 544 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: It was sort of. 545 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 2: A diaspora for the Old Believers. Some of them just 546 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 2: went to other countries and seeking asylum or whatever. And 547 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: apparently some of them just looked to Siberia and were like, 548 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: no one's there, so we'll go there. 549 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 3: Nice. 550 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: It sounds creepy though, the Old Believers. 551 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's a terrible name for him. You know. 552 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 3: It seems like they could scan you or something to 553 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: make your head explode. Are they worship Cthulhu or something? 554 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 555 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 3: So I almost feel like if we should look into 556 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 3: them a little more, because I think they could probably 557 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 3: hold up their own up. 558 00:31:58,840 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: And I think he might be right. 559 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 3: I also remember hearing about families that lived in the 560 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 3: Ozark Mountains in the midwest of the United States, I 561 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 3: think around Arkansas that had been out of contact, didn't 562 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: even know the Civil War had happened. They were just 563 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: that isolated. So yeah, you tend to think of as 564 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 3: just strictly indigenous peoples and that it's just in the Amazon, 565 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 3: but like, there's groups all over the world, fewer and 566 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 3: further between outside of the Amazon because there's less unpopulated areas. 567 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 3: But it happens. 568 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: And one of the sad things about all of this 569 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: is for one of these other tribes that you know, 570 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 2: you can go read this cracked article. 571 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: What's it called. 572 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: I didn't see the title. Actually, it's just suddenly there 573 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 3: were oh, five isolated groups who had no idea that 574 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 3: civilization existed. 575 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: Crrarect lists were always so great, are always so great. 576 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 3: They've come in handy from time to time. 577 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: But one of the sad things they point out for 578 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 2: one of these other tribes is that in Peru, and 579 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 2: I imagine in some other South American countries, are these 580 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 2: awful things called human safaris where and they will take 581 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: tourists around to look at uncontacted tribes from afar and 582 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: close up. 583 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 3: They're like, here, drain some of this iohusca through your nose, 584 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 3: and we're going to go check out some tribes hanging 585 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 3: out on a riverbank somewhere. 586 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: Man, so weird. 587 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 3: Well, I want to add one more thing. I came 588 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 3: across an article that wasn't really apropos of what we 589 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 3: were talking about, called the Right to Kill on Foreign 590 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 3: Policy Magazine, and it's about like this other tangential issue 591 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 3: that governments like Brazil have to deal with, which is, like, 592 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 3: some of these isolated groups practice things that the outside 593 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: world finds abhorrent or is illegal in the outside world. Specifically, 594 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 3: in this article, in fanticide, if you're born with the disability, 595 00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 3: and I think about twenty of Brazil's isolated tribes, there's 596 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 3: a chance that the community will decide that you need 597 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 3: to die again. It's the practice of infanticide. And Brazil's like, 598 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 3: we are not quite sure what to do about this 599 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,959 Speaker 3: because our constitution guarantees everyone in Brazil the right to live, 600 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 3: but it also guarantees the indigenous groups the right to 601 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 3: live according to their customs. So they have no idea 602 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 3: what to do. And it's a big thing about, you know, 603 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 3: moral relativism or moral absolutism and which one's correct. And 604 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 3: it's really interesting that they're having to think about this 605 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 3: right now. Yeah, for sure, it's a really interesting article. 606 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 3: Definitely worth reading. 607 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: Okay, I will check it out. Are you talking to me? 608 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm talking to everybody, but specifically. Yeah. Well, if 609 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 3: you want to know more about isolated tribes, you can 610 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 3: look those words up anywhere on the internet and they're 611 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: going to deliver you some amazing stuff. And since I 612 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 3: said that, it's time for listener mail. 613 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 2: Since you said amazing stuff, well look you here, dude, 614 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 2: I have a handwritten letter on construction paper. 615 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 3: Beautiful. 616 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: That nice? Yes, I love it. Hey, guys, I hope 617 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: this finds you. Well. My name is Claire and I'm 618 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: twenty one. 619 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 2: In fact, for my twenty first birthday, I came and 620 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 2: saw you guys live in Cleveland. 621 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 3: Awesome. That was a great show. 622 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: It was. 623 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: I got to here in college and I'm studying mathematics 624 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: with a license and education, so I'll be teaching high 625 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: school math benefan since twenty fifteen. Thank you for the 626 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 2: many nights you have calmed me and all the information 627 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 2: I've learned. And I've been wanting to write for a 628 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: while just to say thanks and send appreciation, but also 629 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 2: a request and a little something. Whenever you talk about 630 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 2: math in any regard, please be more positive. 631 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 3: Please stop getting it wrong, Please be. 632 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 2: More positive and encouraging. We're well known for poopoing math 633 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 2: and saying I hated math. 634 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 3: Well, it's so intimidating, it's just so stupid. 635 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 2: It is, but she says this math is hard and 636 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 2: already has a stigma for people who hate it or 637 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: to hate it. But as a future educator, since you 638 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 2: too are sort of educators that reach a huge audience, 639 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 2: your outlook and attitude about math is important. It's okay 640 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 2: to not like math and think that it's hard, but 641 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 2: know that you and anyone can do math. I know 642 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 2: it's a silly thing to ask and point out, but 643 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: I think you could both have a positive impact on 644 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 2: the math stigma. I wish you and your wives and 645 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 2: Chuck your daughter all the best. Thank you for all 646 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: of your hard work, and thank Jerry too. Jerry has 647 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: to put up with you two all the time, so 648 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 2: she's definitely been working hard. And she writes sarcasm, smiley 649 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 2: face the fabulous day, and that is from Claire and Claire, 650 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 2: You're right, we just joke around, but we should take 651 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: more care with our words about the maths. 652 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 3: You know what, Frankly, Chuck, I think miss Claire makes 653 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 3: a great point that we should just basically take all 654 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 3: the jokes out of our podcasts entire just so no 655 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 3: one takes it the wrong way. No, just make it 656 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 3: nice and neutral. She is right, though, she is right, 657 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 3: we should take it easy on. 658 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: Math, she very nicely said, back off math. 659 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, like, did she draw little Yosemite sam at the 660 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: bottom there? She did? Oh? Yeah, look at that. Nice. Well, 661 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 3: if you want to get in touch with this, like 662 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 3: Claire did, you can go to your local post office. 663 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 3: We love that place. And you can also instead go 664 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 3: to the internet go to stuff youshould Know dot com. 665 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 3: Find all of our social media links there, or you 666 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 3: can send us a newfangled electronic mail by addressing it 667 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 3: to Stuff Podcasts and HowStuffWorks dot com. 668 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 669 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 670 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.