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Speaker 1: We are living right now, Mark in using governance structures

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Speaker 1: that are at least two hundred years old. We still

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Speaker 1: vote with a piece of paper. Maybe in the i

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Speaker 1: AH there will be landlords and renters leandlords like the

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Speaker 1: machine owners that really own the machine, and the machines

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Speaker 1: are producing actually almost eighty percent eventually of the goods

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Speaker 1: and services. So it may view in twenty twenty five now,

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Speaker 1: but even in five years, if you are anything north

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Speaker 1: of one million personal network, you should prioritize considering implementing

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Speaker 1: on yourself this freedom stack. Permissionless life at this point

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Speaker 1: means get the documents that enables you to travel, leave,

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Speaker 1: do business, access to healthcare in as many countries as possible.

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Speaker 2: How do you see the ability to sort of stay

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Speaker 2: flexible and move around these times? All right? Ali, So

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about all things wealth, money, making money,

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Speaker 2: investing money, but also living our best life. I travel

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Speaker 2: all over the world, and you're sort of European contact.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about wealth in general before we get into

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Speaker 2: money in ways we can use our money to increase

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Speaker 2: our wealth. But when I think about Europe from an

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Speaker 2: American viewpoint, I see it looks like the European continents

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Speaker 2: changing quite a bit. Some areas, maybe like in Paris

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Speaker 2: the UK, seem to be getting very dangerous. Other areas

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Speaker 2: seem to be getting racing more freedom and becoming safer.

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Speaker 2: What's going on over there in Europe from your standpoint,

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Speaker 2: and how we should sort of look at the living

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Speaker 2: and traveling to these different areas.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question mark. I'm very excited to be

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Speaker 1: here and trying to you know, naviate you and actually

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Speaker 1: our listeners to in this topic. So, first and foremost,

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Speaker 1: Europe it's not a single country. So I always remark

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Speaker 1: these to my American friends because sometimes you may say, oh, yeah, December,

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Speaker 1: I go to Europe. Okay, yes, but it depends. You

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Speaker 1: can go literally in den American and maybe having a

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Speaker 1: more chilling experience in your summer, or you can come

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Speaker 1: in south of Europe and having a text as alike,

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Speaker 1: you know, temperature. So Europe is right now twenty seven

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Speaker 1: from a European Union perspective, twenty seven member states, and

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Speaker 1: every member state is a different story. Now we have

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Speaker 1: some commonalities for sure, but we are even culturally a

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Speaker 1: bit different. And in my view, this is both the

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Speaker 1: strength and the weakness from any perspective, it's fragmentation, and

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Speaker 1: it's in my view from an American standpoint and global standpoint.

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Speaker 1: That's also the power of Europe because we have so

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Speaker 1: much diversity within our I would say in our geopolitical

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Speaker 1: continent Europe that you can find literally everything. So if

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Speaker 1: you like to surf, like you for example, well Portugal

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Speaker 1: for sure, or even the South of friend France. Apparently

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Speaker 1: it's one of the best pots ever Italy. It's an

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Speaker 1: amazing place for if you want to have great food

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Speaker 1: and enjoy the beach, but you won't find I've never

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Speaker 1: heard any Italian friend doing that much surfing in it,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a very diversified you know, environment and

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Speaker 1: the UK off the Brexit, of course, went out from

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Speaker 1: the European Union, and this is another macro topic because

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Speaker 1: they had a unique opportunity of becoming this sort of

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Speaker 1: Delaware or Singapore of Europe and unfortunately until now they're struggling.

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Speaker 1: I'm writing about these topics very often, so I might

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Speaker 1: be to I can dive in in from so many

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Speaker 1: angles up to you, what do you find?

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Speaker 2: More specifically, for my audience, who are investors and we're

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Speaker 2: trying to build wealth, and we're trying to navigate our

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Speaker 2: wealth and our and our freedom. I think about the

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Speaker 2: way that these nations are changing, and specifically more around

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Speaker 2: the political climate, maybe also the populace as well, and

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Speaker 2: it's changing rapidly, like areas that used to be safe

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Speaker 2: are now dangerous, areas that were dangerous are now getting safer.

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Speaker 2: But also tax rates are changing rapidly, So now nations

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Speaker 2: are cranking up the tax rates to trying to create

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Speaker 2: exit taxes.

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Speaker 3: And so when it comes.

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Speaker 2: To building wealth and then really, like I said, navigating wealth,

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Speaker 2: I think it's important for me to understand what's going on,

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Speaker 2: so I could be prepared to navigate around that. If

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Speaker 2: they're going to put some massive wealth tax, unrealized capital

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Speaker 2: gains tax, I might want to leave and move my

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Speaker 2: tax jurisdiction to another country. If they're going to pass

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Speaker 2: some policies and political policies that I think could put

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Speaker 2: myself in danger or area I wouldn't want to live,

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Speaker 2: I would probably want to move. And so I guess

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Speaker 2: that's sort of more the angle I was coming from.

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Speaker 2: I know, you help people think through those things and

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Speaker 2: sort of where we're aligned. Is this flag theory, right?

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't put all your money in one stock. Why

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Speaker 2: do you have all your life in the hands of

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Speaker 2: one country when you could diversify and move your tax

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Speaker 2: base and move your voting base and move your asset

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Speaker 2: base and things like that.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And this is somehow not so well,

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Speaker 1: none expecially from Americans. But within Europe there are very

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Speaker 1: powerful tax exemption methodologies. So let me give you an

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Speaker 1: overview so you can map it out. Portugal until actually

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Speaker 1: one year ago it had a so called NHR system.

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Speaker 1: Right now the new NHR improperly actually called this effichi.

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Speaker 1: Long story short. With proper conditions, you can pay zero

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Speaker 1: foreign income for ten years, but right now you need

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Speaker 1: to have a local employment agreement in a eligible profession.

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Speaker 1: So Portugal, which is a very cool place where to live,

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Speaker 1: still can be for ten years, upon several conditions, a

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Speaker 1: great tax spot. And this is great because you know,

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Speaker 1: intra Europe in general, even helpinging bank accounts in a

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Speaker 1: different country and so far and strown, it's quite simple,

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Speaker 1: so Portugal could be on the map Spain. Always be

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Speaker 1: careful about Spain and Italy because sometimes theory in practice differ.

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Speaker 1: So with that disclaimer and caveat in mind, Spain has

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Speaker 1: the so called regime of the Backham law that can

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Speaker 1: give you a specific you know, advantage in terms of

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Speaker 1: foreign income for six years if I'm not wrong, and

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Speaker 1: many have chosen Spain for this reason. Italy, if you

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Speaker 1: are an ultra network individual, guys, my take mark is

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Speaker 1: right now, it's the best place word to be. But

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Speaker 1: you need to be. Probably with my family sometimes we

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Speaker 1: make this joke, you know, we aim to go back

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Speaker 1: to the using this flat tax system. It works this way,

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Speaker 1: so you pay two hundred thousand euro every year and

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Speaker 1: you have essentially a flat tax for you and your family.

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Speaker 1: There are more nuances, but I don't want to make

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Speaker 1: this two boring. The key piece of information is that

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Speaker 1: this regime guarantees you these numbers for fifteen years one

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Speaker 1: to five. And if you think that you can live

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Speaker 1: in Rome Million or Tuscany and pay two hundred k

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Speaker 1: every year and that's it, that sounds like magic. So

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Speaker 1: in my view right now, if you are maybe everything

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Speaker 1: north out of ten million, maybe of early income, it

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Speaker 1: may be it's a no brainer because you have an

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Speaker 1: incredible quity of life and so many other benefits. Malta

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Speaker 1: Cyprus tale also potentially very good places for taxi utimization reasons,

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Speaker 1: and in general this is the primary list. Of course,

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Speaker 1: if you look from a geographical perspective, Monoco is historically

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Speaker 1: right the zero income place in Europe. It's probably the

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Speaker 1: place with aldest money, I would say, in general, and

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Speaker 1: each one of the place has so many nuances and

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Speaker 1: it's never easy because Europe it is of course very

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Speaker 1: serious in terms of regulation. But yeah, you can have

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Speaker 1: your space of freedom leveraging properly. In the end, these

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Speaker 1: systems and these systems are built on a busy principle.

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Speaker 1: Every country wants to protract wealth and copy and talent.

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Speaker 2: Of course, do they really, because what I see the

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Speaker 2: UK just passed the largest tax increases since nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 2: and when I see that happen, I see lots of

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Speaker 2: wealthy people saying they're going to leave the country. As

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Speaker 2: a matter of fact, in the UK, I see one

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Speaker 2: of the major banks reveal that they are potentially going

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Speaker 2: to pull out and move out of the country because

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Speaker 2: of the tax increases. So you say that they all

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Speaker 2: want to attract this, but it seems like the policies

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Speaker 2: like the UK is doing and historically has shown that

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Speaker 2: when they do these they're actually driving those people out

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Speaker 2: of the country.

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Speaker 1: That's a great angle and the great point some countries,

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Speaker 1: and depending on the police, I would say cycle they

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Speaker 1: adopt the right legislation, the right the right framework where

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Speaker 1: they want, they are capable of attracting with benefits specific

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Speaker 1: target of population in the same precise moment. Other countries

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Speaker 1: go the other way around, and that's what caust for example,

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Speaker 1: the exodus from Norway. Norway also introduced from a specific

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Speaker 1: arealized capital gain taxation. Australia is considering to introduce, for

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Speaker 1: above a certain threshold irealized capital taxes, and in my view,

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Speaker 1: is the best way to kill an economy and to

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Speaker 1: make your wealthy people actually escape from you. Is taxing

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Speaker 1: that that should be legally and constitutional, is my personal opinion.

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Speaker 1: For the UK, we assisted to this so called UK

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Speaker 1: exoduce and I read, actually I wrote a post that

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Speaker 1: probably ten days ago whatever a lot of people moved

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Speaker 1: from London to Milan. So what my interpretation, but it

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Speaker 1: is open to discussion. I would like to hear your

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Speaker 1: point of view. In my view, the real key point

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Speaker 1: is that we don't know how the world even next

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Speaker 1: year or in five years or in ten years will evolve,

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Speaker 1: and it's a constant change. It will never remain stable.

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Speaker 1: So today maybe one country is optimus for you, Tomorrow

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Speaker 1: it won And in these eternal dents, I would say

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Speaker 1: it's a sort of ballot of Essentially, there is an

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Speaker 1: intrinsic tension between individual freedom and eventually government outreach. And

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Speaker 1: in this tension that moves constantly. In my view, there

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Speaker 1: is this this whole movement of let's call it a

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Speaker 1: sortn individuals, sort in collective people, lovers of freedom and

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Speaker 1: so far instrument.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned a couple of really good cases.

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Speaker 2: Here in the United States, it's similar. Obviously, we have

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Speaker 2: the federal taxes we have to deal with, but like

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Speaker 2: during COVID, for example, New York and California tried to

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Speaker 2: be the most aggressive, did try. They were the most

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Speaker 2: aggressive as far as the rules and regulations they put

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Speaker 2: people in during that time. But also those two states

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Speaker 2: have the highest tax rates, and so we saw a

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Speaker 2: massive exodus out of New York and people went down

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Speaker 2: to Florida where it was both more free and there's

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Speaker 2: no state taxes. Wall Street was leaving in mass to

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Speaker 2: go down to Florida. Same with California. Everyone left California,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people went to Texas again, a place

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Speaker 2: that was more free and has no taxes. And so

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Speaker 2: we see this happening more and more. And I think

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Speaker 2: you bring up a really good point, which is these

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Speaker 2: policies are changing so fast we don't know what it's

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Speaker 2: going to be in the next couple of years, which

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Speaker 2: is why I think it's important to sort of think

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Speaker 2: ahead and sort of be able to plan for these

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Speaker 2: changes as they come about.

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Speaker 3: So I guess, I mean, how do you see this

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Speaker 3: shaping up and how do you.

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Speaker 2: See the ability to sort of stay flexible and move

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Speaker 2: around in these times?

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Speaker 1: Great? Great take, and to answer me to your question.

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Speaker 1: To your question, in my view, what I've seen multiple

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Speaker 1: times from tech founders, alternate working individuals, investors, also more

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Speaker 1: traditional real estate people. And I also had I get

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Speaker 1: got there for various reasons with my personal life and strategy.

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Speaker 1: I lived in Italy for many years and I did

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Speaker 1: my old career and became a qualified as a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: I made the PhD, said that I would never thought

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Speaker 1: to be my country until that moment. And then for

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Speaker 1: startups reason, I found the different companies. I started traveling,

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Speaker 1: and when I started traveling, I inevitably started having in

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Speaker 1: multiple jurisdiction companies, regulated entities, bank accounts and so far

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Speaker 1: and so on. When you, with your own experience you

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Speaker 1: touch this, I would say, lifestyle, you realize sometimes that ultimately,

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, do borders really represent an obstacle

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Speaker 1: for your own freedom and for your own planning for

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Speaker 1: your family? I would say they don't, and they should not.

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Speaker 1: And that's very important for me because let's take examples Canada.

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Speaker 1: The Canadian approach with COVID, it was objectively, over strictly

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Speaker 1: and crazy. I was in Dubai at the time. We

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Speaker 1: barely only at this at the end we had lockdowns,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. So my take and my strong advice is

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Speaker 1: every case is unique, but in general terms, you should

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Speaker 1: get exposure to different jurisdictions in terms of citizenship, residiency,

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Speaker 1: bank account, business setups and so far and so on.

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Speaker 1: Why because arbit you know, in most of the markets,

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Speaker 1: in the traditional and not rational sense, are forms of arbitrash.

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Speaker 1: And if you think of yourself and your family, you

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Speaker 1: want to put yourself and your family in the best

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Speaker 1: spot no matter what, and you want to be able

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Speaker 1: to choose every single time. So, in my view, in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five now, but even in five years, if

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Speaker 1: you are anything north of one million personal network, you

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Speaker 1: should prioritize considering implementing on yourself this freedom stack, at

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Speaker 1: least maybe with an additional residency, and if you can

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Speaker 1: afford it, maybe with a second citizenship, and why not

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Speaker 1: maybe trying to open a bank account in a different

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Speaker 1: place so you distribute your access to your control to

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Speaker 1: your own wealth, and so far and sorong. So this

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Speaker 1: is in my interpretation of how to optimize your family

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Speaker 1: future in my view, and I would just want to

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Speaker 1: make one remark. I when I refer to these things,

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Speaker 1: I am thinking both of web preservation, but at the

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Speaker 1: same time I'm also thinking of I'm a big believer

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Speaker 1: that money and taxes are part of a broader event

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Speaker 1: scheme of optimizing the capability of expressing yourself, and the

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Speaker 1: same for your kids. What I'm trying to say is

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Speaker 1: that it's not just doing the right trust set up

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Speaker 1: for your kid with ten million in it's also putting

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Speaker 1: them in condition to express themselves depending on their preferences

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Speaker 1: of their passion and so far and so on, and

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Speaker 1: from an objectively, at this point, geography in an interconnected

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Speaker 1: world should not be an obstacle. And in my view,

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Speaker 1: what is the key problem and why we're talking about

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Speaker 1: these topics. We are living right now, mark in using

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Speaker 1: governance structures that are at least two hundred of years old.

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Speaker 1: We still vote with a piece of paper, and the

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Speaker 1: world at this point is fully digital. So there is

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Speaker 1: a friction between old systems and current reality, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we need to delivery day with That's a.

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Speaker 3: Really good point.

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Speaker 2: I talk about that often, how we were sort of

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Speaker 2: trained in the school system that was set up for

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Speaker 2: the industrial era, and we've been given industrial ara tools.

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Speaker 2: But now we're in this new age through the information age,

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Speaker 2: now maybe into the intelligence age with AI. So how

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Speaker 2: do we deal with that mismatch of government that's no

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Speaker 2: longer a government structure that's no longer sort of relevant

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Speaker 2: in the world that we live in today.

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Speaker 1: Great question, and I completely agree also with the example

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Speaker 1: of the you know, the school methodology I learned to personally.

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Speaker 1: I can translate still from Latin ancient lating in Greek,

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Speaker 1: but I intee twent seventeen my English was pretty much

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Speaker 1: at zero. So and of course there are pros and

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Speaker 1: cons in everything, but I think I think the right

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Speaker 1: recipe is sometimes we need to de learn some some

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Speaker 1: or we need to unlearn sorry, certain principles when they

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Speaker 1: become an obstacle to ourselves. And in my view, we

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Speaker 1: need to think of citizenship residency in different terms, in

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Speaker 1: terms of effective, you know, effectiveness and strategy. So in

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Speaker 1: my view, you need to deal. You need to sit

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Speaker 1: down as you do financial planning, as you do as

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Speaker 1: you potentially you know, want to say that you want

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Speaker 1: to improve your you know, your physical captabilities for a

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Speaker 1: specific sport that can be served, can be gym, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and do a plan with a personal trainer you do

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Speaker 1: you exercise every day, and the same for eventually, you know, mindfulness.

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Speaker 1: Let's say that you want to increase your stability and

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Speaker 1: you and you're your emotional side, and you do maybe

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Speaker 1: coaching on that side. I find incredible. Today we do

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Speaker 1: eventually financial planning, but we don't do any efforts sometimes

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Speaker 1: in diversifying our from a geographical and geopolitical point our freedom.

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Speaker 1: So in my view, we need to take these matters seriously.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not technically a consultant I have. I promote

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Speaker 1: a fund, I created a fan structure, but I'm dealing

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Speaker 1: and from a product perspective, I see these and help

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Speaker 1: many families in funding their solution. I think everyone should

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Speaker 1: take seriously in consideration this matter, because sometimes it's not

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Speaker 1: You don't need ten millions or one million to invest

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Speaker 1: in a country to get a citizenship. You can start

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Speaker 1: with much less. I know a lot of I've been

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Speaker 1: this week and at an event of a friend of mine.

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Speaker 1: We're actually after which we met actually our common friend

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Speaker 1: that we were referring to Alex and there were some

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Speaker 1: any guys the younger nineteen year old and this guy

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Speaker 1: has one million followers on Instagram and he's already aware

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Speaker 1: of these issues and getting a Paraguay and in this

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Speaker 1: case residency and studying towards that direction. So my best

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Speaker 1: advice is put on your map at least this area.

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Speaker 1: Maybe today you don't have the tools for solving it

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Speaker 1: the equation, but you should put in your own strategic

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Speaker 1: map this area as a foundational one for yourself. And

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Speaker 1: also it's very funny because sometimes you know, we all

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Speaker 1: live in our city, in our country. Traveling opens your

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Speaker 1: mind gives you more wider business opportunities and so far

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Speaker 1: and from so start thinking of it in order to

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Speaker 1: be able to ask for assistance and build your own plan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about you know, how the world changed

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Speaker 2: and sort of back to that industrial era versus the

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Speaker 2: information age, and the internet has now, as you said earlier,

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Speaker 2: sort of connected us.

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Speaker 3: And so now we travel a lot more.

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Speaker 2: And I think we've gone from obviously the big factories

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Speaker 2: and then we still have the small mom and pops,

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Speaker 2: but those are you know, brick and mortar businesses that

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Speaker 2: can't easily move. But now today we have the rise

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Speaker 2: of the gig economy and people working remotely. Digital nomads

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Speaker 2: is rising, and I think that's really escalating this. But

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Speaker 2: I also think about bitcoin, and so with bitcoin, it's

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Speaker 2: like I think about something I refer too often, and

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Speaker 2: it's sort of this frame I think from is permissionless

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Speaker 2: money for permissionless life. And so when you don't need

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Speaker 2: permission for your money, when you have a borderless money,

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Speaker 2: then do I need permission for my life? Can I

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Speaker 2: just do things? Even in a sense where like one

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Speaker 2: of my sisters is a doctor, One of my sisters

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Speaker 2: has a medical practice, but isn't a doctor, but hired doctors.

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Speaker 2: And then my daughter just became a health coach, but

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Speaker 2: she's not a doctor and she's my sister that's a doctor.

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Speaker 2: Is upset because not upset, but a little bit upset

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Speaker 2: that my daughter who's this health coach can work with

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Speaker 2: clients anywhere in the country and do all these things

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Speaker 2: that she, as a doctor, can't do because she hasn't

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Speaker 2: informission for So it's like we can just learn skills,

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Speaker 2: and we can just take this to the market, and

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Speaker 2: we can just have a money that gives us as

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Speaker 2: permissional life, and we can just move to Portugal or Brazil.

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Speaker 2: And so is that sort of a frame that you

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Speaker 2: think through? And how do you talk to clients about.

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Speaker 1: That great angle? I think I think in these terms.

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Speaker 1: Let me try. Let's see if I address this question

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Speaker 1: and I exhausted it correctly. So you are surely familiar

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Speaker 1: with this sort of individual book, and we are all

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Speaker 1: familiar with the main thesis so information age. Eventually, the

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Speaker 1: initial thesis was with digetization or a cyber economy, we

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Speaker 1: all would have been more free compared to yesterday. In

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Speaker 1: my view, mark we went the opposite way around so

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Speaker 1: we experienced it. Government's having actually another reach and an

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Speaker 1: over goodory approach. The more the economy has been digitized,

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Speaker 1: the more eventually regulation and boundaries have been digitized eventually

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Speaker 1: before the technology was ready Europe until now. Things may change,

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Speaker 1: but until now Europe has been atrocious, terrible in this.

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Speaker 1: They regulated things before they were reality, before they were economy.

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Speaker 1: So in this world, I think having access to permissionless

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Speaker 1: money is the step one. So everyone at this point

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Speaker 1: should have. This is not a financial advice, but part

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Speaker 1: of their portfolio exposed to bitcoin in whichever matter, partially

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Speaker 1: mediaf partially I always advise called storage. We always, you know,

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Speaker 1: we all ask advice the same thing, but the thing

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Speaker 1: is permission and money, maybe up to five percent, depending

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Speaker 1: of course on everyone preferences and permissional less permissionless life

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Speaker 1: at this point means get the documents that enables you

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Speaker 1: to travel, leave, do business, access to healthcare in as

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Speaker 1: many countries as possible. Because we don't know how the

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Speaker 1: world will change and on the on the AI impact

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Speaker 1: on the next ten and twenty years of economy. I

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Speaker 1: would like to express my perspective, which is potentially ambrong.

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Speaker 1: So maybe these won't age well. In ten years Summer

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Speaker 1: will resurrect this video. But in my view, the world

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Speaker 1: is going to change in crazy manners that we can't predict.

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Speaker 1: Nobody can predict, including the best RAND team in the

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Speaker 1: world under Black Rock all Maan Saks. Nobody can predict it,

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Speaker 1: which means maybe in the IH there will be landlords

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Speaker 1: and renters. Landlords like the machine owners that really own

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Speaker 1: the machine, and the machines are producing actually almost eighty

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Speaker 1: percent eventually off the goods and services, and they will

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Speaker 1: become richer and richer, and eventually it will be renters.

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Speaker 1: Those ones probably leading out of UBI or digital credits,

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Speaker 1: sort of new mechanics for ensuring minimum you know, lively

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Speaker 1: to anyone. And in my view, we're going towards a polarization.

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Speaker 1: So there will be either Rolls Royce with handmade crafting

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Speaker 1: cards or maybe mass market created Tesla's and Sofar or

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Speaker 1: Bad or whatever else. The middle is going to die.

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Speaker 1: So if this is the general trajectory, because I need

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Speaker 1: to be high level, I can't zoom in because we

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Speaker 1: don't know how the things will evolve. My advice is

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Speaker 1: don't give for granted that the current state of the

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Speaker 1: geo politics will remain as is right now, Europe is

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Speaker 1: the place where launching a business is a terrible idea.

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Speaker 1: Today it's terrible, you should not do it. But my

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Speaker 1: provocation for you is maybe mark in ten years, in

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Speaker 1: fifteen years in Europe has assets that can't be machine

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Speaker 1: replicated because we have a lot of culture and things

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Speaker 1: that don't work, but they are beautiful, and maybe beauty

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Speaker 1: and authenticity will be the new currency in the IE age.

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Speaker 1: So if that's the trajectory, what today we give for

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Speaker 1: granted may be actually maybe doing a one hundred d

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Speaker 1: degree change. So my thesis is I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: tell you how the future necessary will look like, but

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Speaker 1: I'm very very convinced and o being read in telling

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Speaker 1: you that the level of risk of not understanding where

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Speaker 1: we are going in the next ten years brings to

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Speaker 1: ida conclusion we need to get an edge, including on Europe,

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Speaker 1: including on Middle Least Asia and so far and so on.

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Speaker 1: And this doesn't mean to eventually be philosophically anti patriotic,

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Speaker 1: because in my view, the concept of national and the

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Speaker 1: concept of state is going to well has it already

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Speaker 1: evolved in different manners, so we can be nationalist we

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Speaker 1: can love our nation even without being living our life

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Speaker 1: in the boundaries of our specific state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good thesis. I haven't really thought about

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Speaker 2: it like that, but it makes perfect sense. And it's

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Speaker 2: something I talk about quite often, which is sort of

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Speaker 2: in this age of AI where everything is to your point,

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Speaker 2: sort of mass produced. I think it's typically about like

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Speaker 2: from a content angle, and now it's you know, writing content,

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Speaker 2: it's making videos, all these things. And so now we're

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Speaker 2: starting to see the shift where people are purposely making

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Speaker 2: videos that are very rough and raw and rugged.

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Speaker 3: That can't be created by AI.

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Speaker 2: And so to your point about sort of some of

435
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 2: this culture and beauty coming back, I like that. Let's

436
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: talk about bitcoin for a minute, because permissionless money for

437
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: mentionless life. How would you say that you see what

438
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: is if people are underestimating about pecoins potential to disrupt

439
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: the financial world and really sort of usher in this

440
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: new age.

441
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: Also, this one is a great question. So I want

442
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: to bring in a unique angle in the sense of

443
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm picking up something maybe more European. So I hope

444
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: Americans listening, you know, they find it is more interesting.

445
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: So I believe that we have been all used and

446
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: accustomed to have a sort of sense of hyper respect

447
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 1: for institutions. Let me glorify respect for institutions for private

448
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: or publicly owned, family, state, nation. They are very important

449
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: and I think they should be the bedrock of our

450
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: society forever. But at the same time, we have been

451
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: induced to believe that every institution has existed forever. So

452
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: when we look at even the history of our country

453
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: or of our continent, we believe, yeah, two under the

454
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: ars Ago foundaries. Ago they were barbarians. Now we are

455
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: by far more evoluted. The reality is that every institution

456
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: we live in, including the state, the United South America,

457
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: every single state, for example Italy eighteen seventy one, the

458
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: foundation of the Italian state Unity of Italy, they are

459
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: relatively recent. Banking system is relatively recent, although the primordial

460
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: forms actually have a couple of hundreds of centuries. So

461
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say is we have eventually a

462
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: bias of thinking that things won't change. Why because they

463
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: have never changed. So I think this is the major

464
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: obstacle mark in the mind, especially of smart people, because

465
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: sometimes I have this thesis, especially for crypto and bitcoin specifically,

466
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: the early adopters are fifty to fifty. Fifty their geniuses

467
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: and fifty maybe are a bit above average because sometimes,

468
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: right the bigger innovation comes from either the genius or

469
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: someone who is completely unaware and maybe is not a culture.

470
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: Then that's why his mind is virgin, is a pristine,

471
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: so it's capable of thinking something new without following p

472
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: existing rules. So I believe that's the obstacle in terms

473
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: of understanding bitcoin. If you ask me, what's the obstacle

474
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: in terms of adopting bitcoin, which is a different point.

475
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: I believe that right now bitcoin has already matured a

476
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: higher degree of reputation, but still, to be very frank,

477
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: managing a ledger is still something honestly complex, and I

478
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: personally believe I don't fry me for this that in

479
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: my view, the ETFs are a good vehicle for bringing

480
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: people and normal I would say, non specialized capital into bitcoin.

481
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that what is good like good

482
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: is a relative term, and so like with gold, let's

483
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: just use gold for example, Like I mean, I can

484
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: just buy some gold like a buyer goold coin. I

485
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 2: could throw it at my drawer in my room. If

486
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: I have more gold, I probably just don't want it

487
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 2: in my drawer. I might want a safe, and I

488
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: have have more gold, I might want to put it

489
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: in somebody else's vault. And if I have more gold,

490
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,959
Speaker 2: I might want it in a custodian account like an

491
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: ETF that then it could be moved easier and I

492
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 2: got more liquidity to it. And so there is no

493
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 2: such thing as good. That's like a blanket for everybody.

494
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: And I would think about bitcoin sort of the same way.

495
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 1: Right.

496
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: It's like, if I have a little bit of bitcoin,

497
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 2: I can just put in the wallet on my phone.

498
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: If I have more bigcoin, I should put into a

499
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: cold wallet. More big wine should probably put into a

500
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: multi sig cold wallet. More bitcoin, I might want a

501
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 2: custodian to hold that for me. And so you have

502
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: different levels and I can actually utilize all those at

503
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: the same time. So I do have some gold in

504
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: my safe and a hardware wallet in my safe, right

505
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: I do, right, And so I do have gold and

506
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: I do have bitcoin in these different areas, and so

507
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: there's no such thing as good. And then I think about,

508
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: like you know, to your point, I think secure and

509
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: bitcoin is extremely easy, but it can become more complex

510
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: the more security you need. What happens is if you

511
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: don't have the technical ability to do that, you actually

512
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 2: put yourself at more.

513
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 3: Risk by trying to have more security. So it's his paradox.

514
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: I think you're right, and like I said, I think

515
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: there's a case to have it in all of these

516
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: locations because you're using it for different purposes.

517
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: Why is the words? I agree?

518
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, let's talk about how all this is changing

519
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: and citizenship is sort of be Not only is the

520
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: money system changing, but citizenship is changing. And I know

521
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: you're specifically helping people get more citizenship. Think about that

522
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: moving to different jurisdictions. So let's talk about that for

523
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: a minute.

524
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: Fantastic, Yeah, of course. Well I would like to take

525
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: the opportunity to clarify that citizenship and residency and tax

526
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: or feescalary residency. There are three different things, and I

527
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: want to bring these in because it's always it seems obvious,

528
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: but it's not sorrow. Citizenship means it's like an option.

529
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: You have the option to do something, but you don't

530
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: have to. You don't have an obligation to Citizenship means

531
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: you have certain rights in tier, including the right of

532
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: living in a country, but you are not required to

533
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: live in that specific country tomorrow or within twelve months.

534
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: So citiship is a very powerful, you know, status that

535
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: is recognized by a country and it gives you rights

536
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: and obligations, not including the one to live in in

537
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: a country. Typically, physical residence is eradicated when you spend

538
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time in a specific country, and

539
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: this means that typically is one hundred eighty three days.

540
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: But there are exceptions. If the US is an exception

541
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: in this an exception. So typically half of the year

542
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: in one country, like you're in Italy, well you should

543
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: at that point pay access to the Italian authorities. They

544
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 1: will tell you Benvenuto, welcome and they wouldn't want to

545
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: get your money, okay, so the same for France and Spain.

546
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: Citizenship in particular at this point in time can be

547
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 1: obtained via contributions, and contributions to a specific country can

548
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: take different forms. One form is, well, I spend my

549
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: time and I work there, so I create value locally

550
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: into the society. Therefore, for example, if you move to

551
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: Germany or Portugal or Spain and you live for five

552
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: eight years, depending on the rules for acquiring citizenship, of

553
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: after a few years of lawful residency legal residency in

554
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: a country, when you provide and contribute to the society meaningfully,

555
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: you can apply for citizenship upon for example, knowing a

556
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: bit of the language, upon integration, so typically you spend

557
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: some time, you learn the language, and then you get

558
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: the passport. Now this is one way for contributing to

559
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: a country and gain citizenship. There are other ways. Instead

560
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: of necessarily living there, so you contribute moving there with

561
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: your feet and your energies. You can contribute with money.

562
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: Those models in the puristic form are called citizenship by investment.

563
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: You invest and therefore you acquire the passport. Now these

564
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: forums recently became i would say unappreciated at the European level,

565
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: and the Maltese CBI or Cityship Investment program has been abolished.

566
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: Now without going too much indeed, because it would be

567
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: maybe a bit two technical, what it really matters, Mark.

568
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: Is you said, you said, you said multis program got abolished.

569
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that was like the best one in

570
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: the world, right, it was like a million dollars to invest.

571
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should have invested starting well, you should have

572
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: donated six hundred and fifty k minimum. But if you

573
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: donated seven hundred and fifty, you would have gotten the

574
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: passport in a shorter time frame, so you could have

575
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: put the money and you lose the money, of course.

576
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: And at this, prior to this, you know, to it came,

577
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: before it came to an end, there was donation, then

578
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: real estate requirements. You should have purchased the hanhause O, rented,

579
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: then donated ten k to an NGO and in twelve

580
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: or thirty six months passport. So this was the European

581
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: CBI Malta, the European Union. Long story short said, hold on,

582
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: if you sell your passport as Malta and you're going

583
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: to acquire the Malti citizenship, but the factor you're going

584
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: to acquire also the European citizenship. And we don't want

585
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: someone who pays you Malta and then comes to living

586
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Germany in France, and why why we should allow this?

587
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: Now the nuances are a bit more complex, but and

588
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: this decision, in my view, ultimately is wrong. So the

589
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: European Union should have done something different, should have actually

590
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: allowed Malta to sell their citizenship because it's a sovereign state.

591
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: It otherwise we have an ipair over each of the

592
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: European Union over the sovariety of the Single States, but

593
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: the European Union should have be in my view, created

594
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: a rebalancing effect so that the economic benefits that Malta received.

595
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: Malta collected Mark one point five billion in the in

596
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: the revenues because of donations via this route in the

597
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: past ten years. One point five billion, and it's a

598
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: timey Have you ever been in Malta. Well, it's a

599
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: super tiny island, quite nice place, and it's you know,

600
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: it's south of Sicily, Italy, so it's literally self of Italy.

601
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: It's a tiny island. One point five billion. So this

602
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: was the case for CBI right now in Europe is

603
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: not allowed anymore, but RBI you residiency by investment is allowed.

604
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: So for example, Portugal right now is the best. Why

605
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: you can technically invest in There are various routes, but

606
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: the simplest is you invest in an eligible fund five

607
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: hundred thousand euro and you need to spend only fourteen

608
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: days every two years in the country, plus either language

609
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: test or online language classes about one hundred and fifty hours,

610
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: and after five years you can apply for citizenship. So

611
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: this is a different approach to citizenship that is based

612
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: on an economic contribution, in this case worth mentioning. It's

613
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: not a donation, it's an investment. So if you invest

614
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: in the right fund, hopefully you will see a return

615
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: of investment. So these are strategies. Now I'm focusing on Europe,

616
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: but I can expand if you want, for other countries

617
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: or other geographical areas where you can expand your cityship portfolio.

618
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: Keeping in mind, as I was telling you a front,

619
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: that cityship does not equate to residency or physical residency.

620
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: And in the case of Portugal, for example, which is

621
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: the probably the program that I'm more actually expert about,

622
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: off you don't need to live here, so this means

623
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: that you will keep paying taxes wherever you are considered

624
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: physically resident. And other countries had these programs. Spain had

625
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: a Golden Vision. It got abolished in April twenty twenty five. Cyprus,

626
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: Bulgaria also they were CBI programs. They shut down. So

627
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: when we were chatting before about tensions and changes, this

628
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: matter is constantly changing. So what today is possible, eventually

629
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: tomorrow will be restricted or will become a bit more expensive.

630
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: Even the Italian flat tax, it was one unther k

631
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: per Yer and now it doubled, it's under So from

632
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: a web perspective, my very solid I would say recommendation

633
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: is when every family or every entrepreneur look at this

634
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: area of topics, should always factor in in their decision

635
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: making framework the pros and cons the cost, of course,

636
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: but at the same time the risk that the same product,

637
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: that the same thing, the same strategy will become either

638
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: unavailable Malta disappeared, now not available anymore, so you can't

639
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: do it, or they will cost much more. So this

640
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: is the game, I would say, the key levels of

641
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: these industries.

642
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 2: So you have the ability to buy a citizenship and

643
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: then that money is a donation, You give up the

644
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: money and the money is gone. Another option is then

645
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: to invest into the move there and contribute your time

646
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: and energy. Or you can invest there and then that

647
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: could be some sort of an investment, a business that

648
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: could be real estate, things like that. And then you

649
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: want to decide which one you because then those passports

650
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 2: get you certain benefits, and so what you really want

651
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: is the most amount of countries you can travel to

652
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: visa free.

653
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 3: I'm guessing right.

654
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: So that's why Malta was like one of the best

655
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: whereas you can do it in the Caribbean Islands, for example,

656
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: but then you don't really get access to all the

657
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: different countries, and typically you could buy it for less

658
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: than you would invest for. And unfortunately, typically when you invest,

659
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: you're typically investing into things that maybe aren't.

660
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: The best investments.

661
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 2: Right you have to buy some overpriced real estate that

662
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 2: probably is not going to cash flow or get your

663
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: money back out of it at some point.

664
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 3: That's sort of what I've seen.

665
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: I'm curious though, as far as and I have been

666
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: seeing them get more and more expensive over the last

667
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: couple of years, probably because there's more people that want them.

668
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm curious though. So you said, like Spain got rid

669
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: of their Golden visa program. Now you said, like in

670
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: Portugal it's a five year process, so I can apply

671
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 2: for it within five years, I can get my citizenship.

672
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: But in Spain they abolished it. If I had gotten

673
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: that five year residency to citizenship program started before, then

674
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: am I still grand father and going through that or

675
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: is it over or they're just not accepting new people.

676
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: Correct. So in general, when it comes to Europe specifically

677
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: in the print, one of the key corollary of the

678
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: rule of law implies that new laws can't be retroactive.

679
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: These are general principle, but to keep it simple, means

680
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: that if you got in in Spain before they changed

681
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: the law, you're right, wouldn't be preserved. So these are

682
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: general principle that applies more or less in all Europe.

683
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: So that's why I always say it's better to be

684
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: three days earlier than one single day.

685
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So tell me about the Golden visa program

686
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: in Portugal because it involves bitcoin. So it's not invested

687
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: into some overpriced real estate that you can get back

688
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: or some business model that could fail. But specifically, I

689
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: can move bitcoin into the country. So if I'm already

690
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: sitting on bitcoin, I believe in bitcoin, I'm investing in

691
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: the bitcoin for the long term, then this could be

692
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: a fit.

693
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Let me let me tell you what we what

694
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: we built. So we built a bitcoin ecosystem Golden Visa fund.

695
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: This means that in essence, we created a bitcoin treasury

696
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: company and the fund owned by the fund, and the

697
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: fund invests in the bitcoin treasury company. So the ultimate

698
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: exposure is on bitcoin via a commercial company in Portugal.

699
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: We pay access here with the company and we provide

700
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: two investors a clear pathway to both get exposure to

701
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: bitcoin and directly and at the same time to qualify

702
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: for the Golden Visa. And there is a direct contribution

703
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: in the country, and we also are quite active. We

704
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: try to position Portugal on the tech and bid the

705
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: bitcoin movement mark I would say worldwide, and we do

706
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: our best for having a soid footprint in the country

707
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: and this model achieved well major success mark so far.

708
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: We will be able to attract many investors, some them

709
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: well known, and we are quite proud of pioneering this model.

710
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: So the difference has been typically these companies where the

711
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: funds invest maybe they hold real estate tassets and now

712
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: in Portugal is not anymore possible. The law explicitly exclude

713
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: real estate from the areas of eligible investment. So this

714
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: is the model we have created and we need to

715
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: technically the fund technically can receive Fiat money by loan,

716
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: so we can help people to exchange bitcoin immediately for Fiat.

717
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: The fund received Fiat allocates in the company, but the

718
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: legal requirement is technically at least the Fiat should money

719
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: Euro should eat the local bank account.

720
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so then you see fiat money. We send dollars

721
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: or whatever currency that we're using, and then the fund

722
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: buys by cooin with those dollars.

723
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: Specifically, the fund with most of the money buys or

724
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: loans money to the company, and the company is a

725
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: bitcoin treasury company buy s bitcoin via atfs because it's

726
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: the most secure, secure way, and we provide of course

727
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: full transparency at the fund level, at the company level.

728
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: So then by proxy, basically the funds that I send

729
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 2: over are sitting in a bitcoin. And then in five years,

730
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: however bitcoin goes up, that's how much my investment goes up.

731
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: And then in five years, once I get my citizenship,

732
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: I can get my money back if I want, and

733
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: I get the gains of what bitcoin went up during

734
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: that period.

735
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: Yes, we actually apply ten percent of performance fee. So

736
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: in principle, say that there is one million of profit

737
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: on your own allocation you take in an entred k,

738
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: we take ten percent.

739
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, one under k.

740
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: But rather than investing in some other type of thing

741
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: that has all types of operational risk and unknown risks

742
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: that I might be don't even understand. If I'm a

743
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: long term bitcoin investor, then basically I have it's like

744
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: sort of like buying an ETF.

745
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 3: In a roundabout way. I understand there's technical difficulty, technical details, but.

746
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, technically and legally it's it's a fun investment. But

747
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: let me make this analogy. There is a fund investing

748
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: in a company which trades looks for the cars. Look

749
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: looks for the cars. So practically the investor is investing

750
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: in the look it looks through the cars. They can

751
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: be vintage Ferrari, Vintach, Porsche. In our case, we don't,

752
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: of course, at any level investing in vintage cars. We

753
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: have a specific mandate. We are a bit conical system

754
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: focused and therefore we buy and maintain a position only

755
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: in bitcoin because we are an active player of conical system.

756
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: So from this perspective, yes, it's like if you are,

757
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: of course with a different structure, with a different meaning

758
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: and with a different ownership, but you get exposure to bitcoin,

759
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: and we try to do our best to make sure

760
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: that at any level, at least for what is visible,

761
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: we guarantee the most efficiency and the most long term

762
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: solidity for this model.

763
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: All right, So you know, we've covered a lot of

764
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: ground from sort of shaping the future of technology and

765
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: how ami shape things and freedom is changing, and how

766
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 2: bitcoin is also helping the usher that in what would

767
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 2: you say, one big idea about freedom in this sort

768
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 2: of new tech driven world is sort of top of

769
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: mind that our listeners should take away from this.

770
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: My very strong idea of freedom and the main rationale

771
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: that brought me in creating this opportunity with Leasership is

772
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: in using bitcoin as an asset, as a network, as

773
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: a technology, as a movement, and directly so if we

774
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: put away all the legal matters and the legal technicalities

775
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: from a philosophic standpoint, we are using we are both

776
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: contributing to the bitcoin movement and using bitcoin as a

777
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: tool for freedom for yourself, your family, for getting an

778
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: arbitrash across jurisdictions. And we are going to be the

779
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: team building similar solutions as soon as they are made

780
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: available by legal frameworks everywhere in the world. Because I

781
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: believe that bitcoin treasuries can be an interesting direct and

782
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: your market rights right about these very frequently. But at

783
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: the same time I believe that bitcoin treasuries can be

784
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: really used also as a tool for enabling a higher

785
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: degree of freedom to people. So this is the in

786
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: my view, the big kind of idea of freedom in

787
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: this modern world. In my view, bitcoin means freedom, especially

788
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: because of how technologically built, especially in the eye age,

789
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: and using bitcoin companies the bitcoin ecosystem for acquiring residencies

790
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: meaningfully for yourself and your family. I think this really

791
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: represents the highest form of freedom in my view.

792
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 3: I love that.

793
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: And you know what I should have I should have

794
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: opened up with this. But my path to buying bitcoin

795
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen was that I was reading a newsletter

796
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: at the time called Sovereign Man, and it was about

797
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: being a sovereign man and having multiple multiple passports. And

798
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: I was working with someone and has a network in

799
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: Panama to open up a trust in Panama so I

800
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: could open up a bank account there.

801
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 3: And if I open up a bank acount and put enough.

802
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: Money in there, they would allow me to have a

803
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 2: citizenship program, or I should say, a residency program that

804
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: would lead the citizenship.

805
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 3: And so I had already met with the attorney.

806
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: We were in the process of setting this up, and

807
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 2: I had taken another look at bitcoin. I'd heard about

808
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 2: it for a couple of years. I took another look

809
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: at and I said, wait a minute, this is what

810
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get money out

811
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: of the banking system, the US banking system. I could

812
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: just buy bitcoin. It's the same thing. And it was

813
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: all about the freedom that I wanted that led me

814
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: to bitcoin, and this is basically the same thing. It's

815
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: sort of the same way. It's instead of putting fiat

816
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 2: dollars into another country to go to a residency citizenship,

817
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: this is the way that I can use my bitcoin

818
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: that I have now to increase my freedom and a

819
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: lot quicker.

820
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: So I love that. It's a great way to think

821
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 3: about that.

822
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: Can I add one point that it's a bit controversial,

823
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: but I truly believe in this angle. So in this

824
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: specific case, mark to be very frank. So when you

825
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: eat problem market feet and you go viral, usually there

826
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: must be a reason. And people in general and on

827
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: enverage ones, they are intelligent. So if a product really

828
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: works and someone from scratch we raised an important amount

829
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: of money, I scaled my own account as you as

830
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: you know next very very fast. It means that you

831
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: created something on multiple layers valid. So there is one

832
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: layer that nobody really emphasizes enough. Now, Portugal is a

833
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: strategically it's becoming a tech cup specifically Lispon and Portugal

834
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: is a neutral place culturally in Europe because everyone speaks English,

835
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: so you can come here, you can enjoy the time.

836
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: And they have this very balanced model where yeah, you

837
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: need to learn a bit of language tow line classes,

838
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: you need to still spend time in the country. So

839
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: it's a legit model. And when you want to put

840
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: your money somewhere, especially in this area, you don't want

841
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: the shortcut. You want a serious opportunity. And Portugal is

842
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 1: a serious country. It's a serious process, and we created

843
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: this here because within this serious regime, in my view,

844
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: you get not only the Portugale serious remarket. The real

845
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: value my view is first getting an edge on accountry

846
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: that in my view is going to place itself more

847
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: and more as an innovative country in in Europe. And secondly,

848
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: over the years, think of your kids. You can get

849
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: the passport for sending your kid in France to learn

850
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: to study fashion or maybe in ten years the East

851
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: Europe I truly believe. So It's tube will be an

852
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: economic engine in ten fifteen years and even more than today.

853
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: And opportunities are even now right there. Say that your

854
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 1: son wants to launch a company, it will be able

855
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: to operate because it will be European citizen. So the

856
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: key point that I wanted to remark in terms of

857
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: freedom is in my view, within our offering. But I'm

858
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: not doing a sales pitch. It's a more philosophical analysis

859
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: on freedom. In my view, Europe is very criticized, and

860
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: I'm the first one in criticizing Europe so much. But

861
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: at the same time, the reason why it's in effective

862
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: fragmentation is the reason why to get exposure here to

863
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: twenty seven different economic, cultural, societal systems. It's an incredible

864
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: opportunity and it will not be available in six twelve

865
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: twenty four months in the current terms. So this is

866
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: why I personally believe very much in what you offering,

867
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: and I think that this is a fair offering, especially

868
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: for the countries that allow these systems to happen, and

869
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: in the I would say, in the larger scheme schemes

870
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: of in the in what from a proder perspective, in

871
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: my view, in the grand scheme of things, I think

872
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: this is also a maneuver that European countries, in my view,

873
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: they should accelerate also to welcome valuable wealth, wealthy, but

874
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: also talent tools individuals and not only be open to

875
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: legal immigration.

876
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: So you brought up a good point that brings a question.

877
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: So you talk about if my kids want to move

878
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: to Europe and start a business. So if someone were

879
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: to buy this golden visa, or I should say not

880
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 2: buy it, but invest into a country to receive the

881
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: golden visa, then that includes the entire family.

882
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct, and that's crucial. So you need to

883
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: pay a bit more for legal fees, governmental fees, and

884
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: every program is a bit different. In Portugal, you can

885
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: even in actually bring in automatically your parents if and

886
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: actually if they are below sixty above sixty five years old.

887
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: If they are below there it's a bit more complex.

888
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: You need to prove they their financially dependent from you.

889
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: But even your parents and your kids siblings are not allowed.

890
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 1: So this is critical because if you have two kids,

891
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 1: three kids, essentially you can give to your own old

892
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: family new opportunity and a new debil an.

893
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 2: There are other places like in the Caribbean, if you

894
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: were to bypassports, you have to buy those extra ones,

895
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: so it starts starts adding up. If you have a

896
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 2: lot of kids, and this is great.

897
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead.

898
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: We're gonna make sure that we link to all this

899
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 2: information down below. It's something that you should definitely check out.

900
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: We'll put a link to it down below. Whatever you're doing,

901
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 2: think about your freedom, because man, the world is changing

902
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: super fast and you need I say, the way that

903
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: we beat uncertainty is with optionality, and so we need

904
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: as many options as we can because we don't know

905
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 2: how the world's gonna change, and this is this one

906
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 2: way you can do it. So we'll link to that

907
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 2: down below. Anything else that people should be paying attention to.

908
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: Everything else, No, I think, look, we covered thank you

909
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: so much for this interview. I think we covered all

910
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: these different topics and they are very very interesting. I

911
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: think we covered the more or less everything. So thank

912
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: you so much, and I think this was super interesting.

913
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: I hope we'll receive positive commands and questions. Of course.

914
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 3: All right, thanks so much,