1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller, and this is 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: Hot Pursuit. Coming up on today's podcast. General Motors announces 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: plans to get back in the self driving car market 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: as it sells a lot more expensive gas trucks. 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 3: And I've got a new piece out about the defense 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 3: of driving old Rolls Royces. This is part of a 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: new series we're doing on why the classic Rolls Royce 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 3: deserves more respect. 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: Very very cool. All right, We're going to get to 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: both of those topics shortly, but first I want to 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: start with what is and this may surprise some people. Yes, 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: my first time ever driving an electric p car. I 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: got behind the wheel of a Portie Tacon. It's the 15 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: GTS version of the station wagon shaped model, and it's 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: the first and only time I've ever driven an electric Porsche. 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 3: I'm shocked. 18 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: I know, why does it take it this long? I 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: don't know. Just try not to I didn't try not to, no, 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: And I am kind of on the fence here, I 21 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 2: have to say in terms of just my first impressions, 22 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: it's only been a couple of days. I've been commuting 23 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: back and forth to work in it, and I took 24 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: it also on a rip upstate around Bear Mountain. It 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 2: is very, very quick. 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 3: Well we expected nothing less. Yeah, I'm curious when you 27 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 3: say you're on the fence, is that aesthetically or performance wise? No? 28 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: So aesthetically it's gorgeous. I mean, I absolutely love the 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: way it looks, and I don't think many people disagree 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: with me really, even like the shooting brake version is 31 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: I mean Chef's kiss Like, I think it's it's amazing, sure, 32 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: and I you know, the interior I think wins me 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: over as well. Like as soon as I got in it, 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: it had actually the the PCM turned off, So the 35 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: first time I drove it with no music or anything, 36 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: no NAV, the screens were dark and I just thought, 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: what a sweet look. And even when I turned them on, 38 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: they're not so intrusive. It's not like too many screens 39 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: that overloads you. So esthetically, I think it's amazing. Do 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: you know people have a problem with that? 41 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 3: Yes? Me, I mean, you know, I'll just start at 42 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: the top. I don't hate it, but to me, it 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: just looks like they took a nine to eleven and 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 3: stretched it out, which is kind of kind of a 45 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: perversion of a beautiful thing. 46 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: Huh. 47 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 3: So that's my quibble. I would say, does it look 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: better than a Tesla Modelsue, of course, that's probably one 49 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 3: of the least good looking cars I've ever seen. 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: Wow, I disagree with you on that as well. 51 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: I'm not Modeless is beautiful, but it's timeless, sir. 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: It's an appliance that was made by a creation. 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: It's a device, not a machine. 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 3: It's exactly this was. There is no way that the 55 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 3: Tesla Modeless or even the Tacan would have come out 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 3: of France or Italy. Let me put it this way, 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: the two centers of beauty in the world, the two 58 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: countries most responsible for beauty in the world, would never 59 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: have created these cars. 60 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: Well, if it is a nine to eleven stretched out, 61 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that, because I love 62 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: the nine to eleven I feel like it is. I 63 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: don't see that I don't think they stretched it out 64 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: far enough because one of my one of the main 65 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: problems I have with this car is that the B 66 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: pillar is completely in the way of getting in and 67 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: out of it. I don't know why I have to 68 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: slink around the B pillar to get in and the car, 69 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: by the way, I want to see you. As soon 70 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: as you approach it or open the door, it jumps 71 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: up on its air suspension, which is a really cool trick. 72 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I like I do admit that I like it. 73 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: But then the B pillar is like substantially in the way. 74 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: I think it's beautiful. I think it looks just futuristic 75 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: enough while still maintaining like elegant lines and a classic look. 76 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: It's not too much, it's not over designed. And then 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: driving it is so driving it's amazing, right, It's so quick, 78 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: it's so easy to place it where you want it. 79 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,679 Speaker 2: And for commuting, especially in New York, it's so perfect 80 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: because you need to jet in and out of these spots. 81 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: When a spot opens up and a lane next to 82 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: you, you need to get in and then get out. 83 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: This is totally true. 84 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: I had today my record fastest commute from Scarsdale to Bloomberg. 85 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: I made it in twenty seven minutes door to door. 86 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: Wow, at what time of day? 87 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: It was five thirty seven when I left, so it 88 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: wasn't in the New York traffic. That's not terribly early, sure, 89 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: because it's already after the congestion. Uh charge starts so, 90 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: but yeah, so I love driving it as well. My 91 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: biggest problem with it is I'm sitting there and feeling 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: very like, very much like I'm in a Porsche, you know, 93 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: and then thinking like, wow, I could be in a 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: nine to eleven though, yes, for sure I could be 95 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: hearing that flat six whale. 96 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: Yes, And I will say I don't think Porsche would 97 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 3: have produced a vehicle that wasn't incredible to drive. They 98 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: just won't let it out of the factory. And I 99 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: do give them a lot of props for that. I 100 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: and I remember, you know, this car debut in twenty nineteen, 101 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 3: which is one hundred years ago in car years, and 102 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: was at Niagara Falls, and then everyone agreed drove amazing 103 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: very expensive. I think the first models were maybe one 104 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 3: hundred and eighty five thousand dollars for the turbos, one 105 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty for the the just the turbo. That's 106 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 3: very expensive, and since then the values have really dropped. 107 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: My problems with this car are not driving related, is 108 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: what I'm trying to say. There are other problems with it, 109 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 3: like very chronicled and reported on recalls and reliability issues. 110 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 2: To be honest, well, this solids. 111 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 3: And failing aftermarket values too, which you can get one 112 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: for pretty cheap. 113 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: That's a market, you know what. That's interesting. So it 114 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 2: had me instantly thinking about and scouring the classified ads 115 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: for a cheaper one because it is an amazing way 116 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 2: to commute, and if you're weaving in what is essentially 117 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: bumper to bumper traffic, there's nothing better than an electric propulsion, right, 118 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: because you have instant torque. But the thing is, the 119 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: whole time I'm driving it, I'm thinking about Porsche because 120 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 2: I'm in a Porsche, yes, and then I'm thinking about 121 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 2: nine eleven, and yes, obviously that's better, you know, yes? 122 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 3: And also why have we not talked about the Panama. 123 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: The other thing with the tie can is it kind 124 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: of cannibalized the Panama and made that disappear from consciousness. 125 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: But the Panamara still at this point exists. Y, But 126 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 3: I'd rather have I think I would rather have a 127 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: tie can than a Panamer, right, And for me, I'd 128 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: rather have a tie can than a boxter. 129 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: As well, because okay, of my own personal issues with the. 130 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: Lack like a seven eighteen. 131 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it just doesn't seem to have enough power to me. 132 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: It's more of a momentum car, as people say, right, 133 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: and I don't I want, you know, the brute force. 134 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: Yes, I just keep going back to the fact that 135 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: I've talked to so many people who agree with us 136 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: and say the performance is incredible, and they agree with 137 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: you when they say they like how it looks, but 138 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: that they've had legitimate and reoccurring reliability issues on these cars. 139 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 3: And let's be honest, the whole electrification of Portia has 140 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 3: been a big challenge and has caused the company a 141 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 3: lot of failure. I mean financially, in business wise. I mean. 142 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: My thoughts when driving this are the same as when 143 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: I drive any electric car that I really like, especially 144 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: if I really like the esthetics and the interior, which 145 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: are important to me. My first thought is could I 146 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: keep this car forever? Right Like I'm going to keep 147 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: my Dodge Challenger forever because it meets every need that 148 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: I have for that kind of tool, and it's never 149 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: going to be obsolete, like even if they come out 150 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: with a four twenty seven or a four to twenty 151 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: six motor and still stroke and bore mine out to that. 152 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: So whenever I drive an electric car, I'm always thinking, 153 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: if I keep this forever, and battery technology improves by 154 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: leaps and bounds, will I be able to swap out 155 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 2: the battery? And the answer, inevitably for almost all electric 156 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: cars is no, You're always going to be stuck with 157 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: It's not like an IC car where you can swap 158 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: out a motor, right, You're always going to be stuck 159 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: with the battery that you have because it's part of 160 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: the skateboard or the way it's built into the car. 161 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: It just can't be switched. And that's I think a 162 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: failing of electric cars. 163 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, you know, I would. We often talk 164 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: about Chris Bryant in his columns, and he wrote a 165 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 3: column last year that the headline was secondhand evs are 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: starting to look like a bargain, which is kind of 167 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: what you're alluding to. 168 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, for sure. No, I mean we've talked about. 169 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: That before it and we have talked about it again. 170 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: For me, I'm a little bit gun shy because I'm 171 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: too used to how my my phone battery has degraded 172 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: over the years, and I still feel like that will 173 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: happen to my car battery. So even if you swap 174 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: out the whole battery, which to me, seems like it's 175 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 3: an expensive proposition to begin with. I just don't know 176 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: if there's enough left for me to want in a 177 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: used car. 178 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 2: Let's leave it with the famous quote that was attributed 179 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: to Walter Rural, the great the driver, the great rally 180 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: driver whose name is so difficult for Americans to pronounce. 181 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 3: Yes, apparently. 182 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: Now I'm not sure if this is true, but back 183 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen when this came out, Oh, I know 184 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: what you're gonna say, he apparently had worked on this car, 185 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: and he said he'd never experienced such immediate and impressive performance, 186 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: even in his fastest rally cars. He said the quietness 187 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: of the Taikon was truly a unique experience, and he 188 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: said the weight, steering, and brakes all made it feel 189 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 2: distinctly like a Porsche, and yet he would never or 190 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 2: buy one. 191 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what a legend. What a legend. Oh, I've 192 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 3: got to take can joke? Actually? 193 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: What is it? They? 194 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: The Germans wanted to name it something else, but all 195 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 3: the good names were take can. 196 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: I think that my five year old would appreciate that joke? 197 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 3: All right? 198 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: So coming up, General Motors shelved its ROBOTAXI unit less 199 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: than a year ago. But now the company is ready 200 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: to get back into the self driving market and they're 201 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: hoping to continue knocking it out of the park with 202 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: their high priced, high margin trucks and SUVs. More on 203 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: that after this break, This is hot pursuit. I'm Matt Miller, 204 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: along with Hannah Elliott. General Motors held a big press 205 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 2: conference touting new targets as it continues to sell high margin, 206 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 2: high price trucks and said it's going to get back 207 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: to self driving vehicles with a twenty twenty eight escalade IQ. 208 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: All right, we are lucky enough to have our Detroit 209 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: bureau chief in the house. David Welch joins us. I guess, David, 210 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: you're in town for this General Motors presentation. I saw 211 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: you there yesterday with Mary Barrow as the CEO, as 212 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: well as President Mark Royce and then a couple of 213 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: like their super tech execs, Sterling Anderson and Dave Richardson. Yeah, 214 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: General Motors has the stock went on a tear this week, 215 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: and it's because what they raised their forecast in terms 216 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 2: of the ultra high end luxury trucks they're selling. Is 217 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: that right? 218 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: Well, they raised their earnings forecast period based on truck 219 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 4: sales doing well, I mean GMC, which is all expensive 220 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 4: pickup trucks, and sgv's on pace for a record year. 221 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 4: And also they gave a lot of clarity on a 222 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,599 Speaker 4: couple of things investors worried about. One is tariffs, so 223 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 4: they're managing those costs, and the other one is clearly 224 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: they've got enough investment in electric vasvehicles. They don't need 225 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 4: to put any more into that. And investors have always 226 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 4: been uncertain on how much money that stuff is really 227 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 4: going to make in the next few years. So if 228 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 4: you're looking at a stock like GM and you're worried about, 229 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 4: you know where their earnings are going to go. You know, 230 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 4: the truck business prints money, and if that goes into 231 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 4: an EV business that loses money, it's not a great investment. 232 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 4: And so look, you know, we're based on where the 233 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 4: market is, based on Trump's policies. They got a dozen 234 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 4: vs on the market, they got a couple of battery plants, 235 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 4: a third one planned. They don't need to put any 236 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 4: more money into that. Investors are kind of like, great, 237 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 4: so you're just going to print money on pickup trucks 238 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 4: and sgv's going forward and we like that. So the 239 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 4: stock went on a terror because all that uncertainty was 240 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 4: basically cleared off the decks. 241 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 3: David tell us about how much the self driving announcement 242 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 3: had to do with people feeling good about GM, or 243 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: did it? 244 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 2: I mean did? 245 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 3: How related were those two things? I saw I read 246 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 3: your piece. You know, GM announced they're getting back into 247 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: self driving cars. How interrelated are those those topics? 248 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 4: There's some connection there, I think when so go back 249 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 4: to when GM had Cruise, which is a fully self 250 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 4: driving vehicle and a robotaxi business like Waimo is running. 251 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 3: Now we've been talking a lot about Weimo. 252 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, Waymo was doing some interesting stuff, but GM 253 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 4: investors hated it. Every time GM put money into Cruise, 254 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 4: or I should say, conversely, if GM laid people off 255 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: at Creus or cut back, shares went up. So by 256 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 4: the time GM killed crews off and the stock had 257 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 4: gone up a significant percentage because of that, and because 258 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 4: earnings did better because it wasn't a drag of re quarder. 259 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 4: What that essentially meant was that investors assigned a negative 260 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 4: value to Cruise. They didn't want to see money going 261 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 4: into that because they think it's going to take forever. Now, 262 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 4: if you're Google and you have all kinds of cash 263 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 4: and you know much better cash flow, you know what 264 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: they it's not inconsequential, it's not cheap to fundway Mo. 265 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 4: But for a company the size of Alphabet Inc. It's 266 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 4: it's like money in the couch cushions. You know, it's 267 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 4: pocket change. But for GM, it was real money. With 268 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 4: what they announced yesterday, it says GM's getting back into 269 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 4: self driving vehicles by continually developing the supercrus business they 270 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 4: have now, which already makes money and it doesn't require 271 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 4: a lot of investment to keep doing that. It's yeah, 272 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 4: you're investing in the people, you're hiring people at software, 273 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 4: but the investment goes up and down the elevator every day, 274 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 4: or you know, in the front door, as opposed to 275 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 4: building more plants and scaling up in cities to run 276 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 4: a robotaxi business. Also, frankly, I think it's unclear to 277 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 4: a lot of investors how robotaxi businesses are going to 278 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 4: make money because those fleets are very expensive to maintain. 279 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 4: But GM's not doing that. They're selling a service that 280 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 4: already has very nice margins. And GM gave some clarity 281 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 4: on that seventy percent margins to people who are already buying 282 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 4: their cars. So if you look at that a number 283 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 4: of people driving GM vehicles that could end up with 284 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 4: super crews or this advanced version of what they're doing 285 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight, and maybe they licensed it to 286 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 4: another company. They're partnered with Hyundai in a lot of ways, 287 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 4: you know that. I think that's all good. Now, how 288 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 4: much investors choose to believe that GM is going to 289 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 4: hit a home run with that? That that's the open 290 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 4: question because the car companies are never going to doing 291 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 4: business to consumer kind of stuff. They're they're good at 292 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 4: manufacturing stuff and handing it off to a dealer who 293 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 4: faces off with the customer. But hey, it's it's sort 294 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 4: of all icing on the cake. It's all potential upside 295 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 4: here for GM, as opposed to, you know, spending billions 296 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 4: to develop a big robotaxi business like they. 297 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: We should clarify. So the self driving I know a 298 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: lot of people you know, like to pick knits when 299 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: you talk about autonomous driving. The idea is now, with 300 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: super crews, you have you can have hands off driving. 301 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 4: And eyes off. 302 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: I thought eyes off is what they're coming out with 303 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 2: in twenty Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, okay, so 304 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: now the deal is for people who don't drive GM 305 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 2: vehicles or haven't tried this, because it's also an expensive option. 306 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: That's why the margins are high. Right, if you get 307 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 2: it on a luxury GM you know, g Javior Cadillact 308 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 2: vehicle exactly, you can it completely takes over for you. 309 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 2: And David they said that they'd done seven hundred thousand 310 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: million miles, so seven hundred billion miles of hands off 311 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: driving the Super Crews without an accident that's attributed to 312 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: the system. Have you used the system? What do you 313 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: think about it? 314 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 4: I've used Supercrews. I haven't used obviously the new one 315 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 4: they're going to put out. 316 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: No, I mean the Current, the Current. I've used the. 317 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 4: Current when in the hummer, and it is really good. 318 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 4: Like you're on the highway, you signal that you want 319 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 4: to change lanes, it'll change lanes for you, it'll pass cars. 320 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 4: It is very good. It's hands free. I'm not a 321 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 4: big fan of the these hands free systems because eventually 322 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 4: you have to get your hand back on the wheel, right, 323 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 4: Like you can't do that, Like interminably. 324 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: Can you take your all the way off the wheel 325 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 2: or do you have to like rest your fingers on. 326 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 4: You can take it all the way off the wheel, 327 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 4: but you have to put it back on after a 328 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 4: certain amount of time. 329 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 3: It's also critical, you said on the highway, because these 330 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 3: don't work on surface streaks. 331 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 2: That's right at the moment. 332 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 4: So you have this hands free system, but you do 333 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 4: have to keep your eyes engaged, and if you take 334 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 4: your eyes off the road with supercrews currently, it will 335 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 4: warn you to put them back on, and then if 336 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 4: you don't, it'll it'll slow the vehicle down and stop it. 337 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 3: I have both in the hummer and in the in 338 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 3: the escalade. 339 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: That's a little bit with David. 340 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: It's it's to me, it's like you still have to 341 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 3: be engaged driving. You can't just fall asleep and take 342 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 3: a nap. You still, like David said, you still have 343 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 3: to be paying attention and looking at the road even 344 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 3: if your hands aren't on the steering wheel. So it 345 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: allows for a little bit more of a relaxed state. 346 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 3: But exactly that's what it feels like. And also it's 347 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 3: not great about exiting. It will exit, but you kind 348 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 3: of have to you have to pay paying attention. Yeah, 349 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 3: it's what I would say. You still have to you 350 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 3: still have to be engaged. It's not like take a nap. 351 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, so, Matt, I don't know if you noticed this yesterday, 352 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 4: if you crawled around that escalated IQ, that's the Electric 353 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 4: Cadillac Escalade. But they had a video screen that was 354 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 4: showing episodes of White Lotus. Yes, with the implication being 355 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 4: that you can really kind of zone out here and 356 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 4: watch a movie or TV. 357 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: This is for the twenty twenty eight version. Yeah, yeah, 358 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 2: that's right, right, that would be an update. 359 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, so presumably can go to sleep. Now, what you 360 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 4: can't do, crucially, you can't sit in the backseat, which 361 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 4: you can with the Robotaxi systems, right, you have to 362 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 4: be in the front seat. Reason being is, well, look 363 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 4: what Waimo does, what Zekes does, and that's the other 364 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 4: Robotaxi company and Mame Mobility for that matter, is they 365 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 4: are tightly geofenced that they can only pick people up 366 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 4: and offer fares in rids to fares and certain areas. 367 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 4: That's sort of similar with current supercrews and the future addition, 368 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 4: it's on the highway and then once you get off 369 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 4: the highway onto surface streets, which is probably why Hana 370 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 4: was having a tough time with the off ramp. You 371 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 4: have to re engage now. Sterley Anderson told me that 372 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 4: eventually they want to get to the point where they're 373 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 4: doing this on surface streets in urban areas as well, 374 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 4: and they want to add more models beyond the Escalate IQ. 375 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: So look, Sterley Anderson's had a product development at General Motors. 376 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 4: His background is obviously he came from Aurora Innovation, which 377 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 4: is av trucking right now, but before that he worked 378 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 4: on autopilot for Tesla, and he did his PhD paper 379 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 4: in mechanical engineering on autonomous technology. So what he told 380 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 4: me the quote I had my story was you know, 381 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 4: if I'm gonna paraphrase, but he said, basically, I'd be 382 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 4: a curious choice to be CEO if the company didn't 383 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 4: believe in autonomy. So they're really going to push this thing. 384 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 4: And honestly, if you look at what else is out 385 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,239 Speaker 4: there on the market, Tesla's full self driving is not 386 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 4: a totally hands free system. You must put your hands 387 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 4: back on the wheel at a certain point. Mercedes and 388 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 4: BMW have some nice systems, but Honey You've probably driven 389 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 4: those more than I have, but don't they top out 390 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 4: around forty miles per hour? 391 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 3: Yes, Mercedes has a Level three system that is not 392 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 3: legal in all states that similarly, it will do some 393 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: highway and some street driving. But everybody's got some of 394 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: this and it's not legal everywhere. 395 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: That's the other thing, you know, the regulations. 396 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 3: So I'm curious, David. You seem to this quote from 397 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 3: Sirling Anderson, which you pointed out, does indicate that this 398 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: is a real commitment. This isn't just gms sort of 399 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 3: trying to stay relevant and act like they are going 400 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 3: to be moving in the future, but they're leaving themselves 401 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: and out in case they don't want to pursue this. 402 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 3: Is that your sense that this is a real This 403 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: is real? 404 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, it is, and I think hiring Sterling says that 405 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 4: because and look also, this is the story I broke 406 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 4: a while back. One of his first meetings with the 407 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 4: new staff, the software people at gm IS, he said 408 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 4: that he was hiring people, some of the former cruise 409 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 4: people back, and he also brought in people from elsewhere, 410 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 4: and he confirmed all of that for me yesterday too. 411 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 4: They've hired autonomous talent from from other places as well. 412 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 4: So yeah, they're they're they're really pushing this. And look, 413 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 4: to me, this was a surprise because when Cruz was 414 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 4: shut down, GM said, yeah, we're going to develop a 415 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 4: personally owned autonomous vehicle. But this is a company whose 416 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 4: shareholders rewarded it for getting out of autonomy, whose general 417 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 4: counsel's office and lobbyists went through. I'd say, you know, 418 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 4: some very very tough months after the car drag, somebody 419 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 4: and the California and federal regulators leaned all over them. 420 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 4: This was a nightmare for them. And I just thought, 421 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: knowing how GM responds to shareholders and regulators, which is 422 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 4: to say very accommodatingly, we're never going to see this 423 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 4: car from GM. So now Sterling comes back and we're 424 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 4: going to see it's not the autonomous robotaxi, but it 425 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 4: really is moving pretty far along the spectrum from hands 426 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 4: hands off driving or level two toward actual level four autonomy. 427 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 2: Wait, can I just ask about general motors? Seems to 428 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: have done very well in certain areas. For example, the 429 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 2: evs have massive range. I remember the first time I 430 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: drove an Audi EV, the Etron. You know, I don't 431 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: know six seven years ago, and I was impressed, but 432 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: I couldn't get a lot of range. This week, as 433 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: Hanna and I were talking about, I'm in a Portia Taikon, 434 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 2: which is amazing, but it's you know, two hundred miles 435 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: or so of real range, maybe less if you're really 436 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: gunning it, whereas GM has managed four hundred plus miles 437 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: on these big giant trucks. They've also had, I think, 438 00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 2: a technological advantage in that they're infotainment systems. You know 439 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 2: now are a lot of times they're dropping Apple Car Play, 440 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 2: but you don't need it because they're so useful and 441 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: effective as they as they are, and they have this 442 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: broad product offering, like if you want an ev from them, 443 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 2: and I know it's not currently on vogue, but you 444 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 2: can get everything from an Equinox or a Bolt, you know, 445 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: lower prices through to the higher end trucks and the 446 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: massively expensive you know, Cadillacs. So why does GM seem 447 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: to be doing so well compared to others with these 448 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: high higher tech projects. And am I reading that wrong? 449 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: David No, I. 450 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 4: Think you're reading it pretty well. I mean, look like 451 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 4: it's just funny debate. I had a few years ago 452 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 4: on another automotive TV show, where the host said, you know, 453 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 4: he was making fun of Cadillac because Cadillacs had its 454 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 4: troubles over the years. He said, GM basically said GM 455 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 4: sucks at luxury, and I said, that's not really true. 456 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 4: I said, Cadillac has sucked at bringing in luxury buyers. 457 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 4: I said, but if you look at GMC, they sell 458 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 4: four hundred to six hundred thousand vehicles a year, and 459 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 4: I think about half of them are the Denali brand, 460 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 4: which is these are basically Cadillacs with like kind of 461 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 4: more trucky trims inside, but they're luxury vehicles and they're 462 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 4: really expensive. So GM brings in a lot of very 463 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 4: well healed consumers. Cadillac's gotten better through the EVS, but 464 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 4: between some very expensive Chevy pickups, corvettes, now some Hummers, 465 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 4: and the GMC line, they have customers pay a lot 466 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 4: of money for their vehicles and they like technology. Most 467 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 4: luxury buyers do. So, you know, I think GM, in 468 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 4: a way that Jeep has been unable to do, is 469 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 4: identified that there are people who like big vehicles obviously, 470 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 4: and they like them to be luxurious, but they don't 471 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 4: necessarily want the conspicuous consumption of an ostentation brand. 472 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 3: I was just going to say sorry, I was just 473 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 3: going to say that is it's a very interesting juxtaposition. 474 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 3: And I was in Texas last week driving around the 475 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 3: juxtaposition between how much money something costs and whether or 476 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 3: not it's considered a luxury item. And this goes back 477 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 3: to the six figure trucks, which somehow are not considered 478 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 3: flashy and luxury items, but they cost so much money. 479 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 4: And they called them cowboy ketto as. 480 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 3: There you go, perfect example where it is a weird 481 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: mind trick that the automakers play where they sort of 482 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 3: sneak in all the luxury things and that price point, 483 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 3: but it's not considered too flashy for the neighborhood. 484 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: It's also part of the selling point. I mean, I 485 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 2: remember when I first moved to Bronxville, which is kind 486 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 2: of a Shei Shei suburb of New York, and noticed 487 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: that all the moms were driving Yukon Denaleys that's on 488 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: the right side, because because they didn't want to be 489 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: driving the sort of kardashian esque escalades, but they wanted 490 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: all the same rooms and room and functionality, and so 491 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 2: I guess they went with the Denale thinking it was 492 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: kind of more under the radar or kind of like 493 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 2: a you know you acceptable, yeah, yeah, and it's it's. 494 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 4: Just less of an obnoxious thing, and but it's it's big, 495 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 4: and it's kind of if an escalade is kind of 496 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 4: brash in its styling, and I think it probably I 497 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 4: think it probably is. You know, gmcal a, gmc yukon 498 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 4: Denale is it would be much more understated. But you 499 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 4: sit inside those things and they are very much wucked 500 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 4: out and they're very expensive. I've said, for a long time, 501 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 4: I thought Tesla was a luxury brand. Now I think 502 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 4: they've given that away by stripping down and discounting their cars. 503 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 4: But for the longest time, back when they were selling 504 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 4: Model wives and Model threes for sixty five thousand dollars, 505 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 4: other automotive journalists, but you know, it would get angry 506 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 4: at me like it's not luxury at and said, I'm like, look, 507 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 4: I know it's very spartan inside, but if you're you know, 508 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 4: you're paying that much for you know, a four passenger 509 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 4: small vehicle like like a Model three or Model Y, 510 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 4: that's a luxury good. 511 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: If you're paying I was I was saying, I was 512 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 3: probably one of the people disagreeing with you because I 513 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 3: was like, this is not luxury, this. 514 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: Is this is this is an age old discussion. Hannah 515 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: and I have what. 516 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 4: Hannah's right too, because it doesn't have luxury amployments because 517 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 4: the interiors are frankly, you know, very spartan and just 518 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 4: not posh at all. However, I'm with my degrees in economics. 519 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 4: I look at a luxury good from an economy from 520 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 4: an economists definition, which is you're paying a hell of 521 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 4: a lot more for it for something that does the 522 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 4: same thing as a twenty two thousand dollars Chevy Tracks. 523 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 4: But it was a different kind of luxury in the 524 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 4: sense that if you look at an eyewatch on iPhone, 525 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 4: you're you're paying more for those products than you do 526 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 4: for other things. And the luxury is actually in the 527 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 4: functionality and technology and the HMI, even though it's really 528 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 4: simple design. Now these days, I wouldn't say Tesla even 529 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: a model US, I'm not sure i'd call luxury anymore 530 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 4: because they just they haven't done anything with the interiors. 531 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 4: I mean, like I thought with Tesla that the missed 532 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 4: opportunity with Cybertruck was not just that the styling is 533 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 4: strange to many people, but I sort of understand the 534 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 4: styling in a weird sci fi kind of way. If 535 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: the interior was expensive and matched it in a weird 536 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 4: sci fi kind of way, I think they would have 537 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 4: kind of had a hit with that. Yeah, and it 538 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 4: would have been it would have had a sort of 539 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 4: a weird cool factor to it. But they took a 540 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 4: pass like they always do on interiors, and therefore it's 541 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 4: not it's not a luxurious product, but it's a luxury good. 542 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 4: If I can kind of split it that way. 543 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 3: That's a good good end note, David, thank you so 544 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 3: much for joining us. We are out of time with you, 545 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 3: but we love having you come on and please come on. 546 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: More, and we love reading your stories and you're doing this. 547 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 2: Did a great job running that bureau in Detroit. 548 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 4: Thank you, handle of your stuff. Mad loved being with 549 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 4: you on the air all the time, So let's do it. Thanks. 550 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 3: Coming up, I've got a new column on old rolls 551 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: royces and why they may need a little bit of defending. 552 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 3: That's coming up right after this. 553 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg's Hot Pursuit. I'm Matt Miller along 554 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: with Hannah Elliott. Hannah, I want to talk about your 555 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: latest column. It's something that we talk about all the 556 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 2: time a fair amount. 557 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 3: I mean, this is honestly, this is not going to 558 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: be anything new to anyone who's listened to this well, 559 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 3: but I think it is new to some people. 560 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 2: It's still an important discussion, and I think it centers 561 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: around one of the smartest piece of pieces of advice 562 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 2: that you give to people, which is, you know, when 563 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: you're looking for something in the market new that's overpriced 564 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: or that doesn't exist, why not just look at something 565 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: in the secondhand market. I mean, we don't all need 566 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: to buy products that no one else has had before. 567 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And we've talked about how the price 568 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 3: of new vehicles is kind of astronomical and we get 569 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 3: very desensitized to it in our job and the things 570 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 3: that we do to report because it's we talk about 571 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,719 Speaker 3: them all the time. But really, like even the most 572 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 3: basic nine to eleven is more than one hundred and 573 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 3: thirty thousand dollars just to even get a nine to 574 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 3: eleven ferraris if you want to talk ferrari are averaging 575 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 3: four hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars for a new one, 576 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 3: and that's not including the weight time, and that's not 577 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: including if you want a special edition version, which tax 578 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 3: on another you know, forty to eighty percent of that price. 579 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 3: So new cars are crazy expensive. We I think we 580 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 3: both can relate to the feeling that we want to 581 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 3: have something that feels unique, that feels like it reflects 582 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 3: our personality. But it can feel like an arms race, 583 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,239 Speaker 3: and it can be depressing. Really define that. 584 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: And it's not even just luxury, right. I think weeks 585 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 2: Togo Cox Automotive came out with a figure that for 586 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: the first time, the average new car price, that's the 587 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: average purchase in a mode not just luxury cars, is 588 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 2: more than fifty thousand dollars. 589 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's wild. 590 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: So and you know, I always talk about the fact 591 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: that I'm shopping a suburban. I really want to get 592 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: a big suburban for my family. I have to have 593 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: the six point two liter V eight. Obviously, I'm not 594 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: going to go with the five point three when there's 595 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 2: a bigger one out there. But every time I put 596 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: one together, it costs eighty nine or ninety two thousand dollars. 597 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: And that's for like what is considered, at least when 598 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 2: I was a kid, the ultimate family vehicle. Right, Sure, 599 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 2: that's not. 600 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 3: Going to give you rockstar status, but I'll tell you 601 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 3: something that will. An old Rolls Rice. 602 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: Laugh. 603 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 3: I laugh because you have heard me go through it 604 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 3: with complaining about, you know, a breakdown every now and then. 605 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 3: This is true, but I have to say the upside 606 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 3: of owning something vintage so far out weighs any minor 607 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 3: discomfort are set back. 608 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: I mean, but does it outweigh like the repair bills, 609 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: because this is what I always wonder. You see Rolls 610 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 2: Royce's on bat or you know, maybe Craig's list. I look. 611 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,479 Speaker 2: I always look for these Bentley Turbo rs. I love, yes, 612 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: yes shapes that is so you. They apparently are great 613 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: to drive as well. I never have, but I listen 614 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 2: to Matt Farrah talk about the one. 615 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: He bought a matter of time, and you can get 616 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: they can be had for you know, twenty five thirty 617 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: five forty thousand dollars in what looks like pretty good shape. 618 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 2: But then I fear taking taking it to Charlie Agapo 619 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: and paying like I know, ten thousand dollars repair bills. 620 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 3: I know, and Look, the truth is sometimes the cost 621 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 3: of the repair and maintenance may exceed the price and 622 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 3: value of the car. That is true, and that is 623 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 3: because to your point, a Rose Ray Silver Shadow is 624 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 3: a twenty grand car now over the years market in 625 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 3: the US market, yes, from nineteen seventies, call it. I 626 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 3: have not spent twenty grand on repairs and maintenance for 627 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 3: that car, and I don't anticipate that I will. I've 628 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 3: spent a couple grand here and there to do electrical 629 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: work and to replace cracked hoses and that sort of thing, 630 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 3: but nothing major knock on wood. But yeah, the cars 631 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 3: are pretty inexpensive, which means that, yes, the repairs in 632 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 3: proportion to the cost of the car are high. 633 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: But again. 634 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 3: It's still less than buying an eighty grand suburban. And 635 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 3: the amount of joy and pleasure and delight that I 636 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 3: get from the car far outweighs the cost. As that 637 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 3: famous saying goes, the quality will remain long after the 638 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 3: price is forgotten, and that is true. 639 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 2: Well, and you can also probably easily fit two rear 640 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 2: facing car seats in the back for sure, and a 641 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 2: lot of stuff in the boot, So I guess you 642 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 2: know it would make sense. I think part of it 643 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 2: depends on the generation that you buy. So I'm always 644 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 2: looking at the s Z series, which is that the 645 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: eighties and nineties Rolls, Royce's and Bentley's that had a 646 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: lot more I guess high tech things going on in 647 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 2: the motor that need I don't know if it's always 648 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: engine out, but expensive repairs. 649 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: So in the. 650 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: Silver Shadow that you're interested in is the s Y 651 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 2: series that was the previous nineteen sixty five to nineteen 652 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: eighty and just seems like maybe they come with a 653 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 2: lower bill. 654 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 3: Probably I think that's true, and I want you to 655 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 3: have a Bentley from the nineties, like this feels very you. 656 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 3: I want this for you. And to that end, I 657 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 3: have looked at prices, and you're right, it's all just 658 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 3: more expensive. Like the closer to modern day you get, 659 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 3: it all gets more and more expensive, which is a 660 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 3: little bit out of my price point, which is why 661 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 3: mine are in the seventies, although I do have one 662 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 3: from the mid eighties, a Spur that is actually the 663 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 3: one that's running the best right now, so that's the 664 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 3: one I drive to work. Again, I don't think it's 665 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 3: for everyone, like everyone can find their sweet spot, but 666 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 3: I really recommend old cars. 667 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,760 Speaker 2: All right, Well, that does it for this week's show. 668 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 2: Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, 669 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 2: and anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Feel like to 670 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 2: search Bloomberg Hot Pursuit. You can also send us your comments. 671 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 2: Email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net. 672 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 3: And you can check out my columns and stories on 673 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com and the Bloomberg Business App. You can 674 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 3: go there for car reviews, events and stories that you 675 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 3: won't find anywhere else. Find it all at Bloomberg dot com, 676 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 3: slash Pursuits, slash Autos. 677 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller. We'll be back 678 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 2: with a fresh episode in your podcast Speed next week.