WEBVTT - Ep. 29: Jeff Crane & Andy Treharne 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.640 Hey everybody, and welcome the episode number twenty nine The 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.280 Hunting Collective. I'm Ben O'Brien and today I'm in Washington, 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.520 d C. On Capitol Hill and I'm hanging out with 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.200 Jeff Crane and Andy Treeharn from the Congressional Sports Is 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.239 Foundation and Unite. You might not know who Jeff and 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:21.599 Andy are. You may never have heard of your intian 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.360 sports This Foundation, but hopefully this conversation will change that 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.600 and let you know how important this group really is 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.000 because CSF is the foundational arm where the go between 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.080 between the sportsman's Caucus and the hunting and fishing world, 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.360 and the sports's caucus is porton Is because it is 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.840 a three member group in Congress that have dedicated themselves 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.080 to the legislative policies of hunting and fishing and protecting 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.559 our rights. So CSF is let go with there the 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.480 middleman for that conversation, and it is an importance comes 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.200 and I think probably why this was important and me 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.640 going in here was CSF. It's not a forward facing group. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.960 They're not Rocky Mount Nelk Foundation, they're not Ducks Unlimited, 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.800 they're not backlunting Hunters Angler. They don't do a whole 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.600 lot of marketing. They don't have members that they don't 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.320 really have on the ground presence as we know conservation. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.600 But what they do is work for us every day, 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.840 make sure there's a bipartisan voice for legislation, there's a 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.840 bipartisan voice for doing the right thing for hunters in Englands. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.319 And that is to me. It's a little bit in 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.039 the weed, but it's important as anything. And what I 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.640 came out from this conversation with is a gratitude for 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.880 Jeff Andy CSF and what they do. I want to 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.479 shake their hand and say I appreciate you standing up 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.440 doing all the hard work, digging down deep and making 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:50.320 sure our government works for us and for what we love. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.880 So hopefully this conversation will inspire you to learn a 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.480 little bit more about CSF, Understand what they do, Understand 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.520 the congressional sources, talk why they're important, and be knowledgeable 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:07.520 about those other things. So about further ado Episode over 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:22.600 twenty nine, straight from Capitol Hill recording fellas, how's it 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:27.200 going great? Good? Yeah, introduce yourselves. We have Andy and Jeff. 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.320 We're here. I'm here in the UH. I'll let you 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.160 guys describe it. We're here in the Congressional Sports Foundation office, correct, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.639 heart of the district. Um, Andy kicked away. Introduce yourself, sure, 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:43.320 Andy Treehorn. I'm CSFs Federal Land Policy Director. On I 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:50.000 live just north of Denver in a town called Louisville, Colorado. Awesome, awesome, Jeff, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.120 I'm Jeff Crane. I'm the president of the Congressional Sports Foundation. 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.080 Home for me is Annapolis, Maryland, which is about thirty 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.040 five miles east of here. And as you said, and 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.400 we are two blocks from the United States Capitol, right 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.919 on Capitol Hill. That's right, that's right. I've spent a 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.399 lot of time here, grew up in this area. UM, 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:10.920 spent a lot of time and when I was a 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.320 child as a tourist, but then work for the n 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.200 R and spent a bunch of time down this way 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.519 when I did that. Um. But I always like to 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.280 start these things as there's no video and nobody can 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.160 see where we are. So Jeff, can you try to 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.120 We're in your office, just to kind of describe the surroundings. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.560 Give us your use your best pro as Andy, feel 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:32.360 free to help, but I'll chime in need so. So 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.560 my best pros on this is that we like to 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.520 practice what we preached ure and so being outside hunting 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.840 and fishing is part of my life and to have 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.440 the opportunity to be able to marry that with my 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.040 work has been just a dream come true. So my 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.400 office has taxidermy in it, sitting with a window that 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.520 looks right out onto the street there and uh so 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.960 here they are and and um, the I suppose the 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.920 interesting thing is my grand Slam a wild Turkeys is 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.400 in here. And that's mainly because my wife decided that 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.360 she's allowing tax to drmy at home. But she thinks 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.080 turkeys are ugly, and I think turkeys are beautiful, so 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.480 they're always we got we got my big time turkey 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.239 hunter and night I have not yet achieved the Grand Slam, 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:18.720 so we'll have to. That could be a whole other 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.520 podcast talking turkeys. But yeah, it's nice to uh, I 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.360 feel kind of at home with tax Jermy d C. 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.800 Probably not every office near the Capitol building has that. No, 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.279 I would say it's pretty unique. So for sure, there's 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.160 a few of them, a few members up on the 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.599 hill that they've got, They've got a few pieces in 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.000 their office. Yeah, it's nice to walk in there occasionally 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:45.440 and specifically, you can think of Jeff spent some time 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:49.800 in Congressman Don Young's office. He's got some real good 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.160 stuff from Alaska in there that he can probably describe 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:55.960 in detail better than I can. Yeah, you walk into 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.479 the front of the congressman's office and there's a brown 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.279 bear brug that's on the wall that he shot and 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.200 it's a massive bear. And then you go into his 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.560 inner office and there's all kinds of cool stuff from 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.719 Alaska and North America, and then he's got African and stuff. 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.040 So he's not afraid to where who he is and 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.320 what he where. He his passions are on his sleeves. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.960 So it always if you feel like, you know, fourteen 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.640 million hunters out there, you know, if you just if 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:24.960 you just think about hunting sportsman not being just hunters, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.160 but um, if you just think about hunting, the percentage 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.440 of the actual population that hunters are is very small. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.520 Would you compare that to the percentage of the hunters 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.400 that the hunters are congressmen or are serving in Congress 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.839 right now? Is in a very small percentage of folks 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.719 that actually actively hunt? Uh? You know, well that that's 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.480 that maybe is the question is the active hunters or fishermen, 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.440 or those members of Congress that recognize that they have 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.719 constituents that are actively involved in this because are The 0:05:55.760 --> 0:06:00.120 Congressional Sportsman's Caucus has grown to be the largest was 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.440 to active bipartisan caucus on Capitol Hill. They're nearly three 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.800 hundred members in the House and the Senate had a 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.600 five and thirty five total members of Congress. So, um, 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.720 that's a pretty good number to say the least. How 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.640 many of those guys actually hunting fish? You know, they'll 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.000 tell you, oh, yeah, you know, I don't know whether 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.320 they do. They certainly don't have taxidermy in their office 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.599 and stuff. But we, you know, we get them out 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.160 to Clay's shoots and uh we we fish with some 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.960 of the guys. And I've definitely seen pictures we you know, 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.039 we do a slide show with our Big Dinner every 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.200 year and asked asked members to send in pictures and 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.479 it's great stuff, you know, them hunting, fishing with kids, grandkids, 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.919 all that kind of all the stuff that we hold 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.640 near and air. So you know, our one of our 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.440 biggest jobs is just to work with them and show 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.960 them the value in it for for conservation, their constituents, um. 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.240 And then you know, it's it's a bonus for us 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.080 if we're actually getting out into the field with them 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.880 and you get to see him in action, and you know, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.919 some of them they're they're a real deal. There's a 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.360 few real deal center Heinrich. I know, it's it's huge. 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.520 He's in a d I Y public class. Real deal um. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.560 And it's not that it's necessary for those folks too 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.360 to actively go and pursue those things, but as a hunter, 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.960 it would be nice to know that they're they're there, um, 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.320 because it's it's as you well know, one thing to 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.160 go go hunting, another thing to support it, you know. 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.920 I think that's something we struggle with a lot of times, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.920 you know, with our public images that to go do 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.160 it into two be accepting of it and have not 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.960 experiences that's a that's a pretty big gap. So it's 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.800 it's nice to know there's some some of those and 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.680 I think some of them, um, they don't like to 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.320 talk about it for for political reasons, based on where 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.960 they might be from. But um, I can think of 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.720 a couple examples of folks that you don't hear them 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.960 talk about it very much. But I know, they go 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:58.840 out of their way to do it when they're they're 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.280 back home, and um, you know they still interact with 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:07.480 their constituents that hunting fish and UM, I get that too. Yeah, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.280 And then you know, uh, staff play a really important 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.640 role in terms of advising members of Congress and on 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.520 issues that maybe the member himself for herself doesn't know 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.200 as well. If you've got somebody on a that's a 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.400 trusted member of your staff that does happen to enjoy 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.080 the outdoors and hunting and fishing and they can lean in, 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.640 you're probably going to get a good reception out of 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.280 that too. So we worked the staff angle as well 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.800 as the member angle to try to make sure we're 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.000 getting folks out. And we do an August Recess clay 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.480 shoot every year and and that fills up in about 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.480 less than a day. And we have a big component 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:52.120 for first time shooters with with instructors and if nothing else, 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.120 somebody gets to pick up a shotgun and break a 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.160 target and to spell some of the Hollywood miss about 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.120 shotguns and what they are and what they do. Some 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.120 of them can be so I auto, that's pretty scary. 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.679 We even let them shoot some auto. So that's awesome. Well, 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.720 that's a good a good segue into you know, it's 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.760 pretty evident by the name, a lot of people will 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.440 understand and know the name Congressional Sports on the Foundation. 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.480 But then you guys would admit you're not as front 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.760 facing to the community as Army F for Ducks Unlimited. Um, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.520 there's no membership drives where you guys are giving away 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.960 any products or anything like that. But your your function 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.520 is as important, if not more important for you know, 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.800 the day to day life of hunters, legislation, policy, those 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.800 types of things. So either one of you guys are 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.880 both just kind of give a quick rundown of CSF, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.800 what it is, how it runs, um, and you believe 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.760 it's impact. I know it's a long answer, but let's 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.160 start to get into you know, how you would explain 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.800 that to someone who's never heard of CSF. Great, So 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.000 I'll start and we can cut it up in the 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.080 sound bite so I don't get into a long monotone. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.440 But basically it was founded in eighty nine to support 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:02.599 the then fledgling Congressional Sports Ones Caucus. Capitol Hill has caucuses, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.360 four or five hundred different caucuses. Um, you know some 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.000 more known than others, and a caucus is nothing more 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.000 than a bunch of elected officials that share some views 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.439 on things that want to be educated on it. They 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.000 were smart enough to realize, even with the staffs that 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:21.000 they have in their member offices, that having an outside 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.559 body that could kind of be that that conduit, that 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.160 link between between the conservation world and the hunting and 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.520 fishing world and these members of Congress was going to 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.760 be important, and it was going to be important to 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.720 have have it be here in d C. Be you know, 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.520 in part staffed by people that understand the legislative policy, 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.840 because at the end of the day, our function is 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:47.280 to try to affect legislative and and administrative policy. But 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.680 it's a policy function. And so um, we're very different. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.400 We're not membership based. We're very different in that regard 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.800 and so um that's how we started and it's grown 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.080 and and he can talk more about the expanse and 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.600 into the into the States, but UH almost every one 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:09.880 of the national UH sportsmen's hunting, conservation, fishing, conservation groups 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.920 our partners with us. So we play and we play 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.840 a very niche role in trying to help advance things 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.040 that that obviously we care about and so do their members. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:26.839 So yeah, and about fifteen years ago, UH, after the 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.880 Congressional Caucus had been up and running for a while, 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.960 Jeff and and some other folks that were here before 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.920 my time, UH realized that a lot of hunting and 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:42.400 fishing policy is made at the state level, with state 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:48.079 game fish agencies creating the regulations state legislatures overseeing them. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.120 And at that time, there were a handful of states 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:56.439 that also had sportsmen's caucuses in their legislatures, but they 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.440 didn't really have a great way to communicate with one another. 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.360 And UH see what was working well in one state 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:07.560 not working well in others, UH weren't identifying threats to 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:13.640 hunting and fishing collectively, and so UH CSF and Jeff 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.880 in particular, had the the bright idea to create an 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.760 umbrella organization uh for those state caucuses. And then we 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.080 took that and ran with it. And since then we've 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:29.360 been trying to encourage other states to establish sportsmen's caucuses 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.040 that are bipartisan both chambers of the legislature. And then, 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.000 UH we've been real successful with that. We've got them 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.640 in forty eight states now. UM, and we put on 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.560 a conference every fall where we try to bring them 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:48.920 all together and have policy presentations, give them an opportunity 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.679 to talk about what's going on in their respective states, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.920 communicate with one another. And we've seen a lot of 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:01.080 successful policy initiatives come out of that, for where a 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.840 legislator from one state will be talking to uh, someone 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.720 from another state and say, oh, that's a really good idea, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.679 and we don't have that in my state. So I'm 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.560 gonna bring it back and start talking to my folks 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.320 and see if there's a way that we can make 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.240 this work for for my state, and that you guys 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.800 work with the governors as well. We do. We have 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:26.319 a Governor Sportsman's Caucus, Uh, same thing, bipartisan deal. We've 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:31.400 got thirty five members all over the country, and um, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.400 you know, we try to serve as a resource for 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.880 them in the same way. Uh. They're a little harder 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.320 to get in one place and at one time than 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.920 than state legislators, but um, you know we can we 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:45.880 can play that role as well. If we get a 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.040 phone call from one of their staff members and they'll 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.400 call us with questions and say, hey, you know, if 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.199 any other states looked at this and what was their experience, 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.400 and um, you know there have been any lessons learned, 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.040 could they do it better? And we can either give 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.560 them that information or help them track it down through 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.720 our relationships. When I imagine that to both of you guys, 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.959 the you know, the term bipartisan isn't important in this function. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.280 You know, there is We can go through this in 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.760 some detail or about about this idea around, but I 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.360 think that there's the traditional idea that this this sportsman's 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.480 community leans heavily Republican. And there's a bit of a 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.880 movement in Andy's part of the world that some hunting 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.640 and fishing organizations are starting to look a little bit 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.320 more blue. And then the way that they act and function, 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.920 um and concerned the public lands and things like that 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.400 is there. You know, Jeff and your experiences, there been 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.560 a change in in those forces a little bit right 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.120 to left, how they view hunting, how they view the environment, 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.200 how all that spins up into into the actual legislation 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.480 and policy. Yeah, they're absolutely has and and even going 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.920 probably a little further back in history, but you know, 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:02.800 the several Southern and Bowl Weevil Democrats than the Blue 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.320 Dogs and whatnot, Um, they they had they had a 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.640 little bit more connection. I think it has to do 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:14.480 really a lot with geographics. Um, you know, if you're 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:19.720 from a district that's urban suburban, your connection maybe is 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.480 less to the outdoors and that sportsman's way of life. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.480 Whereas you represent a more rural district, you might be 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.240 more inclined. And so I think as you looked at 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.160 the map, the Republicans tend to to control more of 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.640 those those districts. And so that's why this perception that 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.840 it that it leans, you know, further to the Republican side. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.240 And they they have it, but you know, um, we've 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.520 got tremendous champions on on both sides of the aisle 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.160 here that that really care about this. And when's the 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.320 last time you went hunting and you got introduced to 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.480 somebody and you asked them whether they were a Republican 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.000 or a Democrat. I don't think that it's real awkward. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.480 It just doesn't come up up, you know. And and uh, um, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.600 that's not the that's not the binding factor on this. 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.360 It's the it's the passion for the outdoors, it's the 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:14.040 love of nature, it's the responsibility to be conservation minded, 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.680 and that that crosses party lines. Acrosses gender, you know, 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.120 and so um that's the beauty about working on this, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.920 but yeah, we could you know, more balance is always 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.320 good in this town because you get labeled as being 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.320 partisan on one thing that then it makes it harder 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.320 to convince the other side that your your goals and 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:37.800 objectives are altruistic and are about conservation and getting kids 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.320 outside and all the stuff we know about. So yeah, yeah, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.000 I would add to that. You know, you reference being 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.840 in the West, and I think there is some change 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.800 going on demographically in that part of the country as 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:56.680 well that's driving some of that. And speaking in terms 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.400 of my day to day job and talking with folks, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.720 it's it's really more about when you sit down with 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.400 a policy maker and you try to talk to them, 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.440 whether they're on the right or the left, and it's 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.120 more about whether they'll have a real conversation with you 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:16.640 and try to understand where you're coming from in the perspective, 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:21.199 whether that's Republicans on public lands issues or Democrats on 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:26.160 firearms issues, or or both. And as long as there 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.000 are folks that are out there, they are willing to 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.000 have a conversation and work with you in a pragmatic way. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.040 I think that's what's most important, rather than some sort 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.600 of label you you put on on folks. Yeah. No, 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.359 we always talk about on this podcast, you know, pro nuance, 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.320 like there are as you you brought up some very 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.560 just in in describing how to have a conversation, you 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.879 brought some pretty polarizing issues guns, public lands, things that 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.800 are immediately put up the walls of on this team. 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.919 You're that team. I think that's especially in you know, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.200 we found ourselves in a situation, Jeff. You sure really 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.280 noticed that a lot of our pursuits are complicated. They 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.000 go across you know, age demographics, they go across different 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.160 land uses, they go across a lot of different things. 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.679 And for us to say I'm pro this, I'm anti this, 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:16.480 without as a group as sportsman understanding what that really 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.320 means to be pro something in anti something else, I 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.240 think that's important. Have you found you know, in your 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.760 many years of doing this and I know even prior 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.280 to this you were a pH in Africa? Is that correct? Right? 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.200 And there's a lot of other things that you did, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.200 you know, coming up before you were in the chair 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:32.720 you are now. I mean, have you found that to 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.000 be um? Yeah, I think I think being able to 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.560 have the dialogue first of all, um, convincing people it's 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.320 okay to to not have to be one and a 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.240 lock of step agreement with one another. We probably would 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.040 find the three of us may not agree on every 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.840 single thing out there, and just in our conservation world, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.760 just from a different perspective. And being able then to 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.720 try to to to map that course through through the 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.880 political process is what you know, that's what we we 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.320 specialize in doing. And you know, sometimes that's successful, and 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.960 in particular and federal politics, a lot of times it isn't. Um. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.160 There's a lot of conflicting things that go on. There's 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.159 a lot of pressures that go on. You can be 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.320 dead right on the policy and still never get it 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.760 done because it gets overtaken by either partisan politics or 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.320 something else suddenly flares up. And and you know, we're 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:30.760 not the we're not the number one thing if you 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.160 look in polls, is to what americans buying large are 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:39.159 concerned about, economy, jobs, threat on terror, I I A. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.359 Or it's the stuff that's first and foremost for everybody's life. 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.200 And so we're down the ladder to begin with. So 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.920 that art of trying to find that deal and find 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.439 their way through on the stuff is part of what, 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.199 you know, part of what makes this exciting and some 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:58.200 days pretty dang frustrating. And I think you mentioned there's 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.960 fourteen million or so hunters and anglers out there, and 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.320 I I think part of the reason that we have 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.639 been in the long term pretty successful is that that 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.439 nuance and pragmatism where when big stuff comes up, you know, 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.800 I think by nature we're a pretty pragmatic group and 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.400 we can come together and uh go have those nuanced 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.199 conversations with folks, and um, most of the time it 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.320 turns out okay for us. And in the big picture, 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.080 do either of you guys have a specific example that 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.760 either recent or just something that was climactic for this 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:41.560 organization that was pivotal two hundreds of anglers and it 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.040 was was a you know, I would say, just a 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.399 turnkey moment for Hey, we're going to treat this issue 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.280 this way, and here's who's on board, here's who isn't 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.359 on board. Because I'm sure there's a lot you know, 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.480 public lands is the current trendything to talk about, but 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.200 that wasn't always you know, top of mind for every hunter, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:01.320 every angler out there. Yeah, I can think of a couple. Um, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.160 you know, we this goes back a couple of years now, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.480 but um, we hadn't had a duck stamp increase in 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.760 a real long time. And uh, that was something that 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:17.680 was really important. But the political environment in Congress, um, 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.960 not not wholesale, but just because of a few louder 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.399 voices that had some control over the process, made that 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.520 probably difficult, more difficult than it needed to be. Um. 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.480 And you know it didn't go once I remember correctly, 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:36.760 once or twice, and potentially brought down some other policy 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.240 goals with it. And UM, let me say, is that 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.760 just a tax? Like generally, we don't want to increase taxes, 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:43.960 we don't give it. We don't give a ship what 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.720 it is much. Yet even even though we were trying 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.359 to explain to him, we are the people that are 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:55.480 gonna pay. I always asking you for to tax me more. 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:58.159 And yet they would still say, Now, I always use 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.480 that as an example when I'm talking about so maybe 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.360 this doesn't help my what I'm talking to a non 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.760 hunter about, you know, the like I believe you guys 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.600 coined the American system of conservation funding. Talking to him 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:11.520 about that, I'm talking to him about there's this one 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.600 tax writes about ducks, and we go to it's like 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.280 the the only you know, nobody's argument. Give us the tax, right, 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:20.120 we came up with it, we want it, let's keep 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.280 let's keep raising as much as we need to raise. Right. 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.920 So I always use that specific example to say, you've 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.640 got a willing constituency that's willing to pay, and it's 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.760 almost ingrained in what we do to pay. Absolutely, So 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.280 there's an example of parts of politics saying like, well, 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:36.720