1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome the episode number twenty nine The 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Hunting Collective. I'm Ben O'Brien and today I'm in Washington, 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: d C. On Capitol Hill and I'm hanging out with 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Jeff Crane and Andy Treeharn from the Congressional Sports Is 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Foundation and Unite. You might not know who Jeff and 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: Andy are. You may never have heard of your intian 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: sports This Foundation, but hopefully this conversation will change that 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: and let you know how important this group really is 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: because CSF is the foundational arm where the go between 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: between the sportsman's Caucus and the hunting and fishing world, 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: and the sports's caucus is porton Is because it is 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: a three member group in Congress that have dedicated themselves 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: to the legislative policies of hunting and fishing and protecting 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: our rights. So CSF is let go with there the 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: middleman for that conversation, and it is an importance comes 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: and I think probably why this was important and me 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: going in here was CSF. It's not a forward facing group. 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: They're not Rocky Mount Nelk Foundation, they're not Ducks Unlimited, 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: they're not backlunting Hunters Angler. They don't do a whole 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: lot of marketing. They don't have members that they don't 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: really have on the ground presence as we know conservation. 22 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: But what they do is work for us every day, 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: make sure there's a bipartisan voice for legislation, there's a 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: bipartisan voice for doing the right thing for hunters in Englands. 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: And that is to me. It's a little bit in 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: the weed, but it's important as anything. And what I 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: came out from this conversation with is a gratitude for 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: Jeff Andy CSF and what they do. I want to 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: shake their hand and say I appreciate you standing up 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: doing all the hard work, digging down deep and making 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: sure our government works for us and for what we love. 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: So hopefully this conversation will inspire you to learn a 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: little bit more about CSF, Understand what they do, Understand 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: the congressional sources, talk why they're important, and be knowledgeable 35 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: about those other things. So about further ado Episode over 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: twenty nine, straight from Capitol Hill recording fellas, how's it 37 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: going great? Good? Yeah, introduce yourselves. We have Andy and Jeff. 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: We're here. I'm here in the UH. I'll let you 39 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: guys describe it. We're here in the Congressional Sports Foundation office, correct, 40 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: heart of the district. Um, Andy kicked away. Introduce yourself, sure, 41 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: Andy Treehorn. I'm CSFs Federal Land Policy Director. On I 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: live just north of Denver in a town called Louisville, Colorado. Awesome, awesome, Jeff, 43 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Crane. I'm the president of the Congressional Sports Foundation. 44 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: Home for me is Annapolis, Maryland, which is about thirty 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: five miles east of here. And as you said, and 46 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: we are two blocks from the United States Capitol, right 47 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. That's right, that's right. I've spent a 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: lot of time here, grew up in this area. UM, 49 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time and when I was a 50 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: child as a tourist, but then work for the n 51 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: R and spent a bunch of time down this way 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: when I did that. Um. But I always like to 53 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: start these things as there's no video and nobody can 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: see where we are. So Jeff, can you try to 55 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: We're in your office, just to kind of describe the surroundings. 56 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: Give us your use your best pro as Andy, feel 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: free to help, but I'll chime in need so. So 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: my best pros on this is that we like to 59 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: practice what we preached ure and so being outside hunting 60 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: and fishing is part of my life and to have 61 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: the opportunity to be able to marry that with my 62 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: work has been just a dream come true. So my 63 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: office has taxidermy in it, sitting with a window that 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: looks right out onto the street there and uh so 65 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: here they are and and um, the I suppose the 66 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: interesting thing is my grand Slam a wild Turkeys is 67 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: in here. And that's mainly because my wife decided that 68 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: she's allowing tax to drmy at home. But she thinks 69 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: turkeys are ugly, and I think turkeys are beautiful, so 70 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: they're always we got we got my big time turkey 71 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 1: hunter and night I have not yet achieved the Grand Slam, 72 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: so we'll have to. That could be a whole other 73 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: podcast talking turkeys. But yeah, it's nice to uh, I 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: feel kind of at home with tax Jermy d C. 75 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: Probably not every office near the Capitol building has that. No, 76 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: I would say it's pretty unique. So for sure, there's 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: a few of them, a few members up on the 78 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: hill that they've got, They've got a few pieces in 79 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: their office. Yeah, it's nice to walk in there occasionally 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: and specifically, you can think of Jeff spent some time 81 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: in Congressman Don Young's office. He's got some real good 82 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: stuff from Alaska in there that he can probably describe 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: in detail better than I can. Yeah, you walk into 84 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: the front of the congressman's office and there's a brown 85 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: bear brug that's on the wall that he shot and 86 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: it's a massive bear. And then you go into his 87 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: inner office and there's all kinds of cool stuff from 88 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: Alaska and North America, and then he's got African and stuff. 89 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: So he's not afraid to where who he is and 90 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: what he where. He his passions are on his sleeves. 91 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: So it always if you feel like, you know, fourteen 92 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: million hunters out there, you know, if you just if 93 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: you just think about hunting sportsman not being just hunters, 94 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: but um, if you just think about hunting, the percentage 95 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: of the actual population that hunters are is very small. 96 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Would you compare that to the percentage of the hunters 97 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: that the hunters are congressmen or are serving in Congress 98 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: right now? Is in a very small percentage of folks 99 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: that actually actively hunt? Uh? You know, well that that's 100 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: that maybe is the question is the active hunters or fishermen, 101 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: or those members of Congress that recognize that they have 102 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: constituents that are actively involved in this because are The 103 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: Congressional Sportsman's Caucus has grown to be the largest was 104 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: to active bipartisan caucus on Capitol Hill. They're nearly three 105 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: hundred members in the House and the Senate had a 106 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: five and thirty five total members of Congress. So, um, 107 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: that's a pretty good number to say the least. How 108 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: many of those guys actually hunting fish? You know, they'll 109 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: tell you, oh, yeah, you know, I don't know whether 110 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: they do. They certainly don't have taxidermy in their office 111 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: and stuff. But we, you know, we get them out 112 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: to Clay's shoots and uh we we fish with some 113 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: of the guys. And I've definitely seen pictures we you know, 114 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: we do a slide show with our Big Dinner every 115 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: year and asked asked members to send in pictures and 116 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: it's great stuff, you know, them hunting, fishing with kids, grandkids, 117 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: all that kind of all the stuff that we hold 118 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: near and air. So you know, our one of our 119 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: biggest jobs is just to work with them and show 120 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: them the value in it for for conservation, their constituents, um. 121 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: And then you know, it's it's a bonus for us 122 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: if we're actually getting out into the field with them 123 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: and you get to see him in action, and you know, 124 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: some of them they're they're a real deal. There's a 125 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: few real deal center Heinrich. I know, it's it's huge. 126 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: He's in a d I Y public class. Real deal um. 127 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: And it's not that it's necessary for those folks too 128 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: to actively go and pursue those things, but as a hunter, 129 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: it would be nice to know that they're they're there, um, 130 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: because it's it's as you well know, one thing to 131 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: go go hunting, another thing to support it, you know. 132 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: I think that's something we struggle with a lot of times, 133 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, with our public images that to go do 134 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: it into two be accepting of it and have not 135 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: experiences that's a that's a pretty big gap. So it's 136 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: it's nice to know there's some some of those and 137 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: I think some of them, um, they don't like to 138 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: talk about it for for political reasons, based on where 139 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: they might be from. But um, I can think of 140 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: a couple examples of folks that you don't hear them 141 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: talk about it very much. But I know, they go 142 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: out of their way to do it when they're they're 143 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: back home, and um, you know they still interact with 144 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: their constituents that hunting fish and UM, I get that too. Yeah, 145 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: And then you know, uh, staff play a really important 146 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: role in terms of advising members of Congress and on 147 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: issues that maybe the member himself for herself doesn't know 148 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: as well. If you've got somebody on a that's a 149 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: trusted member of your staff that does happen to enjoy 150 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: the outdoors and hunting and fishing and they can lean in, 151 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: you're probably going to get a good reception out of 152 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: that too. So we worked the staff angle as well 153 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: as the member angle to try to make sure we're 154 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: getting folks out. And we do an August Recess clay 155 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: shoot every year and and that fills up in about 156 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: less than a day. And we have a big component 157 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: for first time shooters with with instructors and if nothing else, 158 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: somebody gets to pick up a shotgun and break a 159 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: target and to spell some of the Hollywood miss about 160 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: shotguns and what they are and what they do. Some 161 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: of them can be so I auto, that's pretty scary. 162 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: We even let them shoot some auto. So that's awesome. Well, 163 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: that's a good a good segue into you know, it's 164 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: pretty evident by the name, a lot of people will 165 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: understand and know the name Congressional Sports on the Foundation. 166 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: But then you guys would admit you're not as front 167 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: facing to the community as Army F for Ducks Unlimited. Um, 168 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: there's no membership drives where you guys are giving away 169 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: any products or anything like that. But your your function 170 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: is as important, if not more important for you know, 171 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: the day to day life of hunters, legislation, policy, those 172 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: types of things. So either one of you guys are 173 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: both just kind of give a quick rundown of CSF, 174 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: what it is, how it runs, um, and you believe 175 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: it's impact. I know it's a long answer, but let's 176 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: start to get into you know, how you would explain 177 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: that to someone who's never heard of CSF. Great, So 178 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: I'll start and we can cut it up in the 179 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: sound bite so I don't get into a long monotone. 180 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: But basically it was founded in eighty nine to support 181 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,599 Speaker 1: the then fledgling Congressional Sports Ones Caucus. Capitol Hill has caucuses, 182 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: four or five hundred different caucuses. Um, you know some 183 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: more known than others, and a caucus is nothing more 184 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: than a bunch of elected officials that share some views 185 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: on things that want to be educated on it. They 186 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: were smart enough to realize, even with the staffs that 187 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: they have in their member offices, that having an outside 188 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: body that could kind of be that that conduit, that 189 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: link between between the conservation world and the hunting and 190 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: fishing world and these members of Congress was going to 191 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: be important, and it was going to be important to 192 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: have have it be here in d C. Be you know, 193 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: in part staffed by people that understand the legislative policy, 194 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, our function is 195 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: to try to affect legislative and and administrative policy. But 196 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: it's a policy function. And so um, we're very different. 197 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: We're not membership based. We're very different in that regard 198 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: and so um that's how we started and it's grown 199 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: and and he can talk more about the expanse and 200 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: into the into the States, but UH almost every one 201 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: of the national UH sportsmen's hunting, conservation, fishing, conservation groups 202 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: our partners with us. So we play and we play 203 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: a very niche role in trying to help advance things 204 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: that that obviously we care about and so do their members. 205 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: So yeah, and about fifteen years ago, UH, after the 206 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: Congressional Caucus had been up and running for a while, 207 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: Jeff and and some other folks that were here before 208 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: my time, UH realized that a lot of hunting and 209 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: fishing policy is made at the state level, with state 210 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: game fish agencies creating the regulations state legislatures overseeing them. 211 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: And at that time, there were a handful of states 212 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: that also had sportsmen's caucuses in their legislatures, but they 213 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: didn't really have a great way to communicate with one another. 214 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: And UH see what was working well in one state 215 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: not working well in others, UH weren't identifying threats to 216 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing collectively, and so UH CSF and Jeff 217 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: in particular, had the the bright idea to create an 218 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: umbrella organization uh for those state caucuses. And then we 219 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: took that and ran with it. And since then we've 220 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: been trying to encourage other states to establish sportsmen's caucuses 221 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: that are bipartisan both chambers of the legislature. And then, 222 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: UH we've been real successful with that. We've got them 223 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: in forty eight states now. UM, and we put on 224 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: a conference every fall where we try to bring them 225 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: all together and have policy presentations, give them an opportunity 226 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: to talk about what's going on in their respective states, 227 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: communicate with one another. And we've seen a lot of 228 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: successful policy initiatives come out of that, for where a 229 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: legislator from one state will be talking to uh, someone 230 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: from another state and say, oh, that's a really good idea, 231 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: and we don't have that in my state. So I'm 232 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: gonna bring it back and start talking to my folks 233 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: and see if there's a way that we can make 234 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: this work for for my state, and that you guys 235 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: work with the governors as well. We do. We have 236 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: a Governor Sportsman's Caucus, Uh, same thing, bipartisan deal. We've 237 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: got thirty five members all over the country, and um, 238 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, we try to serve as a resource for 239 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: them in the same way. Uh. They're a little harder 240 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: to get in one place and at one time than 241 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: than state legislators, but um, you know we can we 242 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: can play that role as well. If we get a 243 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: phone call from one of their staff members and they'll 244 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: call us with questions and say, hey, you know, if 245 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: any other states looked at this and what was their experience, 246 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: and um, you know there have been any lessons learned, 247 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: could they do it better? And we can either give 248 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: them that information or help them track it down through 249 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: our relationships. When I imagine that to both of you guys, 250 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: the you know, the term bipartisan isn't important in this function. 251 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: You know, there is We can go through this in 252 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: some detail or about about this idea around, but I 253 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: think that there's the traditional idea that this this sportsman's 254 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: community leans heavily Republican. And there's a bit of a 255 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: movement in Andy's part of the world that some hunting 256 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: and fishing organizations are starting to look a little bit 257 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: more blue. And then the way that they act and function, 258 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: um and concerned the public lands and things like that 259 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: is there. You know, Jeff and your experiences, there been 260 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: a change in in those forces a little bit right 261 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: to left, how they view hunting, how they view the environment, 262 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: how all that spins up into into the actual legislation 263 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: and policy. Yeah, they're absolutely has and and even going 264 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: probably a little further back in history, but you know, 265 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: the several Southern and Bowl Weevil Democrats than the Blue 266 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: Dogs and whatnot, Um, they they had they had a 267 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: little bit more connection. I think it has to do 268 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: really a lot with geographics. Um, you know, if you're 269 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: from a district that's urban suburban, your connection maybe is 270 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: less to the outdoors and that sportsman's way of life. 271 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: Whereas you represent a more rural district, you might be 272 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: more inclined. And so I think as you looked at 273 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: the map, the Republicans tend to to control more of 274 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: those those districts. And so that's why this perception that 275 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: it that it leans, you know, further to the Republican side. 276 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: And they they have it, but you know, um, we've 277 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: got tremendous champions on on both sides of the aisle 278 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: here that that really care about this. And when's the 279 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: last time you went hunting and you got introduced to 280 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: somebody and you asked them whether they were a Republican 281 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: or a Democrat. I don't think that it's real awkward. 282 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: It just doesn't come up up, you know. And and uh, um, 283 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: that's not the that's not the binding factor on this. 284 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: It's the it's the passion for the outdoors, it's the 285 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: love of nature, it's the responsibility to be conservation minded, 286 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: and that that crosses party lines. Acrosses gender, you know, 287 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: and so um that's the beauty about working on this, 288 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: but yeah, we could you know, more balance is always 289 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: good in this town because you get labeled as being 290 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: partisan on one thing that then it makes it harder 291 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: to convince the other side that your your goals and 292 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: objectives are altruistic and are about conservation and getting kids 293 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: outside and all the stuff we know about. So yeah, yeah, 294 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: I would add to that. You know, you reference being 295 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: in the West, and I think there is some change 296 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: going on demographically in that part of the country as 297 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: well that's driving some of that. And speaking in terms 298 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: of my day to day job and talking with folks, 299 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: it's it's really more about when you sit down with 300 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: a policy maker and you try to talk to them, 301 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: whether they're on the right or the left, and it's 302 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: more about whether they'll have a real conversation with you 303 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: and try to understand where you're coming from in the perspective, 304 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: whether that's Republicans on public lands issues or Democrats on 305 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: firearms issues, or or both. And as long as there 306 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: are folks that are out there, they are willing to 307 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: have a conversation and work with you in a pragmatic way. 308 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: I think that's what's most important, rather than some sort 309 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: of label you you put on on folks. Yeah. No, 310 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: we always talk about on this podcast, you know, pro nuance, 311 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: like there are as you you brought up some very 312 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: just in in describing how to have a conversation, you 313 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: brought some pretty polarizing issues guns, public lands, things that 314 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: are immediately put up the walls of on this team. 315 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: You're that team. I think that's especially in you know, 316 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: we found ourselves in a situation, Jeff. You sure really 317 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: noticed that a lot of our pursuits are complicated. They 318 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: go across you know, age demographics, they go across different 319 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: land uses, they go across a lot of different things. 320 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: And for us to say I'm pro this, I'm anti this, 321 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: without as a group as sportsman understanding what that really 322 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: means to be pro something in anti something else, I 323 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: think that's important. Have you found you know, in your 324 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: many years of doing this and I know even prior 325 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: to this you were a pH in Africa? Is that correct? Right? 326 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of other things that you did, 327 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, coming up before you were in the chair 328 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: you are now. I mean, have you found that to 329 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: be um? Yeah, I think I think being able to 330 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: have the dialogue first of all, um, convincing people it's 331 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: okay to to not have to be one and a 332 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: lock of step agreement with one another. We probably would 333 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: find the three of us may not agree on every 334 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: single thing out there, and just in our conservation world, 335 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: just from a different perspective. And being able then to 336 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: try to to to map that course through through the 337 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: political process is what you know, that's what we we 338 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: specialize in doing. And you know, sometimes that's successful, and 339 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: in particular and federal politics, a lot of times it isn't. Um. 340 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: There's a lot of conflicting things that go on. There's 341 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: a lot of pressures that go on. You can be 342 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: dead right on the policy and still never get it 343 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: done because it gets overtaken by either partisan politics or 344 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: something else suddenly flares up. And and you know, we're 345 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: not the we're not the number one thing if you 346 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: look in polls, is to what americans buying large are 347 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: concerned about, economy, jobs, threat on terror, I I A. 348 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: Or it's the stuff that's first and foremost for everybody's life. 349 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: And so we're down the ladder to begin with. So 350 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: that art of trying to find that deal and find 351 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: their way through on the stuff is part of what, 352 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: you know, part of what makes this exciting and some 353 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: days pretty dang frustrating. And I think you mentioned there's 354 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: fourteen million or so hunters and anglers out there, and 355 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: I I think part of the reason that we have 356 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: been in the long term pretty successful is that that 357 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: nuance and pragmatism where when big stuff comes up, you know, 358 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: I think by nature we're a pretty pragmatic group and 359 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: we can come together and uh go have those nuanced 360 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: conversations with folks, and um, most of the time it 361 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: turns out okay for us. And in the big picture, 362 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: do either of you guys have a specific example that 363 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: either recent or just something that was climactic for this 364 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: organization that was pivotal two hundreds of anglers and it 365 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: was was a you know, I would say, just a 366 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: turnkey moment for Hey, we're going to treat this issue 367 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: this way, and here's who's on board, here's who isn't 368 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: on board. Because I'm sure there's a lot you know, 369 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: public lands is the current trendything to talk about, but 370 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: that wasn't always you know, top of mind for every hunter, 371 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: every angler out there. Yeah, I can think of a couple. Um, 372 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, we this goes back a couple of years now, 373 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: but um, we hadn't had a duck stamp increase in 374 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: a real long time. And uh, that was something that 375 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: was really important. But the political environment in Congress, um, 376 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: not not wholesale, but just because of a few louder 377 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: voices that had some control over the process, made that 378 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: probably difficult, more difficult than it needed to be. Um. 379 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: And you know it didn't go once I remember correctly, 380 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: once or twice, and potentially brought down some other policy 381 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: goals with it. And UM, let me say, is that 382 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: just a tax? Like generally, we don't want to increase taxes, 383 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: we don't give it. We don't give a ship what 384 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: it is much. Yet even even though we were trying 385 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: to explain to him, we are the people that are 386 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: gonna pay. I always asking you for to tax me more. 387 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: And yet they would still say, Now, I always use 388 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: that as an example when I'm talking about so maybe 389 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: this doesn't help my what I'm talking to a non 390 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: hunter about, you know, the like I believe you guys 391 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: coined the American system of conservation funding. Talking to him 392 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: about that, I'm talking to him about there's this one 393 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: tax writes about ducks, and we go to it's like 394 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: the the only you know, nobody's argument. Give us the tax, right, 395 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: we came up with it, we want it, let's keep 396 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: let's keep raising as much as we need to raise. Right. 397 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: So I always use that specific example to say, you've 398 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: got a willing constituency that's willing to pay, and it's 399 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: almost ingrained in what we do to pay. Absolutely, So 400 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: there's an example of parts of politics saying like, well, 401 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: we just can't we talk. We promised we wouldn't raise them, right, Yeah, 402 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: and then and then they came back the next Congress 403 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: and got it done. Um, you know. And there's examples 404 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: at the state level too, like where I live in Colorado, 405 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: we hadn't had a hunting your fishing license fee increase 406 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: and since two thousand five until this year, and you 407 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: know that that money is just not going as far 408 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: as it once did. I mean that's just math and 409 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: uh um. You know, ten legislative session, we had bipartisan 410 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: legislators that worked with the sportsmen's community bring a bill 411 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: forward and I still can't tell you why that didn't 412 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: pass that year. In past this year. Um, but it's 413 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where there's some pragmatism involved 414 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: and a need to really go and educate people about 415 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: who are paying these fees and why they don't mind 416 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: paying more, Uh if if they believe in what it's supporting. Yeah, 417 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: that's a good segue to to that term American system 418 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: of conservation funding because I was writing an article recently 419 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: about Pittman Robertson. Your colleague philho And introduced me to 420 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: this concept, and I was like, wow, okay, we should 421 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, just like the North American model wildlife conservation, 422 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: which wasn't something coin like a lot of people think 423 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: at the turn of the century. It was coin of 424 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: the eighties. Um. I think these are terms that can 425 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: help us, not other important terms, because they can help 426 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: us understand what's going on. But also it's inclusive of 427 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: everything that's actually happening. So it's not just Pittman Robertson, 428 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: it's not just license fees. It's inclusive of everything. So, um, Jeff, 429 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: can you talk about how much is that a part 430 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: of your job now to to you know, to fight 431 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: to these things, maintain and educate people on their legacy 432 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: and and explain that the A C A s CF 433 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: and what that means, Uh, for every hunter and angler. 434 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: That's a big one. I got Listen. What you'll understand 435 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: is that I asked questions that are like eight and 436 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 1: if we get to the first two, that's fine, let's go. 437 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: Because I think you know, I'm hoping most of your 438 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: listeners probably are familiar with with Pittman, Robertson and Dingle 439 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 1: Johnson and those excise taxes on guns, m O, fishing, tackle, 440 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 1: whatnot as being dedicated funding. So then you you you 441 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: add on top of that the license fees and permits 442 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: and things like that, and and it turns into the 443 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: biggest funding source for most of the state fish and 444 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: wildlife agencies around the country. And that is a very 445 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: unique model to the United States of America and and 446 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,239 Speaker 1: a hugely successful model. And and that's something that we 447 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: as sportsmen and women need to be proud of. Um 448 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: not just because we're we're carrying the freight in terms 449 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: of finances, but because of that just as further indicates 450 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: our passion for for wildlife and it's game in non 451 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: game species as we all know that benefit from good habitat, conservation, 452 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: from clean water um from things like this. So this 453 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: system isn't extremely important. And yeah, we do talk about it, 454 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: I don't you know, And I know Andy and and 455 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: some of the other guys on our state based efforts 456 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: are are constantly watching because inevitably some somebody comes up 457 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: with the idea of diverting those funds away and at 458 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: the state level that cover some other budget shortfall. And 459 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: fortunately the folks that drafted that legislation we're smart enough 460 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: to think and putting safeguards in there that if you 461 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: do that, then you know you're gonna sacrifice all that funding. 462 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: And but we have to check those states back on 463 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: occasion because somebody, you know, like I say, somebody's figuring 464 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: out there's a pool of money that we don't We 465 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: don't really care about turkeys. We we care more about schools. 466 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: You know, let's divert it over here. So we are 467 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: watching it. Um. From that side of things, we're working 468 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: on other supplemental things to try to take some of 469 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: the burden off the state agencies have got a tremendous 470 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: amount of responsibility and and um, you know, that pool 471 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: of money is and it's going as far as as 472 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: it used to. And we gotta be watching for and 473 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: we're working on some other things that we can get 474 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: into to to try to look at some of the 475 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: other issues. And funding is always important. Unfortunately it always 476 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: comes down to two dollars support stuff. Course, of course, 477 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a big part of our education mission too. 478 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: You know a lot of these state legend slators were 479 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: coming from a background of being insurance agents or teachers 480 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: or you know, they're they're busy, normal people and if 481 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: they have never hunted, or sometimes even if they have, 482 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: they might not know where the money comes from, or 483 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: that there are in many state agencies out there that 484 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: received no general fund tax revenue um that don't know 485 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: that there's a ten or eleven percent tax on firearms 486 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: or ammunition or fishing equipment that supports their state agency 487 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: that issues their hunting license. And so we do a 488 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of educational programming on that front too, and it's 489 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: everything from the basics too. When they try to draft 490 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: legislation to give away free licenses to some niche constituency um, 491 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: which you know, maybe they deserve, we don't know, but 492 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: we want them to have the information that if they're 493 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: not charging what it cost to issue that license. They're 494 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: losing federal funding from the exercise taxes. Yeah, and I 495 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: think there's isn't there a statute that says they don't 496 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: spend it spend that money on UM conservation in the 497 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: first was it two years? Uh, it's gone right, take it, 498 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: which is which is a huge part of the Piven Robertson, 499 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: Dingol Johnson funds. And so that's you guys, correctly, and 500 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: then those states have to match. It's on matching thing. 501 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: A lot of times they use the licensed dollars. But nonetheless, 502 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: it's uh, you know, it's a it's a pretty incentive 503 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,239 Speaker 1: driven program when it really comes right down to well, 504 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: somebody a long time ago was very you know, Frankly D. 505 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: Roosevelt and the folks are back in the thirties when 506 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: they had that conservation conference, came up with these programs, 507 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: were pretty smartly. And do you think for it to 508 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: be eighty years plus for that single program. And he's 509 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: talking about license fees and UM Piven Robertson funds and 510 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: Dingoel Johnson funds. I'm not sure what the number is, 511 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: but it's a you know, if anywhere from I've seen 512 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: anywhere from forty percent of state funding for conservation coming 513 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 1: from and wildlife management is coming from that system now. 514 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: And I think even even more important is that the 515 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: that ascent legislation that says the states can't divert the 516 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing license money that they collect themselves protects 517 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: the federal money. So it all works together. And you know, 518 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: so we've gone since the nineteen thirties essentially without having 519 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: any significant diversion of hunting license revenue away from conservation, 520 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: which I I can't think of another program like it, 521 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: and they may be out there, but it's it is 522 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: pretty unique. And I one of the frustrated things about 523 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: that program is that I, you know, I grew up 524 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: in this I grew up in western Maryland and my 525 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: dad hunted, My whole family hunted. I'm sure you guys 526 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: had some similar experiences. Nobody they didn't set you down 527 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: the first day you bought a license. Guess guess what 528 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: this is what It's a beautiful thing. It's to be celebrated. 529 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: It's part of our heritage. This is why you get 530 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: to go hunting in the greater sense of the word. 531 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a long story, but the big part 532 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: of it is user pays public benefits. That's a huge 533 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: part of it, and that's not a part of the 534 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: storyline every young hunter gets to hear. Um. I hope 535 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: they're changing that. Hopefully this conversation helps to change that. 536 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: But I think it's such when we talk about it 537 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: in terms of Capitol Hill, it's such an impactful piece 538 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: of legislation. And I'm sure Jeff you could speak to 539 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: how much legislation comes and goes. Um. And you know, 540 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: the building blocks of our conservation movement are still here 541 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: eighty years later. Um, that's pretty unique, you gotta be Yeah. 542 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: And there have been attempts to to change it. Uh. 543 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: In particular, there have been attempts to change Pittman Robertson 544 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: and redirect some of that funding towards things like victims 545 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: of gun violence and things like that. And so you know, 546 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: we've had that that's that's been politically difficult to stand 547 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: into that and say, no, this is not what this 548 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: money is for, and we've got to protect the integrity 549 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: of this kind of stuff and and so, um, yeah, 550 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: it's a there there's a constant need to be vigilant 551 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: and keep an eye out because people are trying to 552 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: do things that don't necessarily fit in with what we think. 553 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: So I haven't heard a whole lot of solutions for 554 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: how to replace that funding if if it goes away 555 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: when people come up with bad ideas either Yeah, well, 556 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: and then you talk about the number of hunters on 557 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: the decline and there is a need for at some 558 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: level to have a solution. Yeah, And I think there's 559 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: a difference between replacing it and supplementing it. And um, 560 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: Jeff alluded to it a little bit earlier, and you know, 561 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: there are some things going on at both the state 562 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: and federal level on that front. And UM, I think 563 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: the sportsman's community generally speaking is UM. I think even 564 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: since I've been here seven or eight years, the there's 565 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: been a change in in philosophy and oh budness to 566 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: looking at some of those things and trying to identify 567 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: some solutions because that conservation ethic is is still very 568 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: strong and important to a lot of people. Yeah. Do 569 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: you guys have to do a lot of Have you 570 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: done a lot to this point with the land of 571 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: our Conservation Fund? Oh? Yeah, We've been involved in that 572 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: for a long time. One of the things that that 573 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: program wise is the making public lands public component of 574 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: that UM, which was to direct a certain amount one 575 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: point five percent or ten million dollars, whichever is the 576 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: is the greater um to go to these projects where 577 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: there are literally landlocked on pieces of access points to 578 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: federal public lands, willing seller, willing participant that will put 579 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: a right away easement, and those don't typically score in 580 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: the scheme of things when they're when they're measuring projects 581 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: under LWCF. So we worked with the coalition, with with 582 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: the embron Ron Mental community to talk about, you know, 583 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 1: incorporating this idea for us. It's really accessed for for 584 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing, but recreational access. You know, we're all 585 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: concerned about kids not getting outside, and one of the 586 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: issues becomes, you know, if you've got federal public lands 587 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: and you can't get to UM, that's a problem. So 588 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: we're trying to address that. That is in the current 589 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: UH authorization language. Actually, they the Resources Committee when they 590 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: passed the bill last week, increased it to three percent 591 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars. So that was a that was 592 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: a win right there in terms of you know, that 593 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: ability because there's a lot of acreage, especially in the West, 594 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: that is inaccessible and you know, we need all of 595 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: us know that more access is going to be better 596 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: for for getting people out there. Can you give me 597 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: just just a quick I think people we were talking 598 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: about earlier, as these things will come trendy. I think 599 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people hunting industry that know now 600 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: what the Land of Water Conservation Fund is that maybe 601 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: years past would have will laughed if they need to 602 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: even know what it was, which is is a great thing. 603 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: But can you give everybody that doesn't know just a 604 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: really quick rundown of that program? All right, I'll start 605 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: and then Andy can correct me when when I when 606 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: I get talked about it. So you know, it started 607 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: in the started in the sixties, and so I mean 608 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: it's been around for a long time. And again the 609 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: idea was where they were, uh in particular, they were 610 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: offshore oil and gas royalties UM on federal federal waters, 611 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: and the idea was to be able to redirect some 612 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: of those royalties back to conservation through what they created 613 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: as the Land and Water Conservation Fund. And so um, 614 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: the program has been around again for a long time, 615 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, fifty fifty fifty plus years and and uh um, 616 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm just delighted that that there are some folks that 617 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: are willing to listen to to the idea that you know, 618 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 1: it's not it's not sacrilege to look at a sixty 619 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: year fifty year old program and says there are ways 620 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: to tweak this to make it, you know, more more 621 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: applicable for the twenty first century than the middle of 622 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: the twentieth century. And and so, um, we're supportive of 623 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: the concept the program that we just appreciate the fact 624 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: that we were able to work with partners to include 625 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: some access specific language in there. And Andy, I don't 626 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: know if you want to add anything. Yeah, I think 627 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: that was a good summary. Um. You know, one of 628 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: the challenges with that program as a whole that has 629 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: been around since the mid sixties, and you know, it 630 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: was coming out of the Eisenhower years, they created a 631 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: Blue Ribbon Task Force to look at outdoor recreation in 632 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: America was post World War two on the interstate highway 633 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: system was new, and they realized that there was going 634 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: to be a growing demand for recreation. And so those 635 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: folks had a lot of um forethought and um, that 636 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: was a very good thing. But I think one thing 637 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: that gets lost in a lot of the publicity and 638 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: the advocacy around LWCF is that it's it's really only 639 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: been fully funded one time and its history and you know, 640 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: going back to that pragmatic viewpoint of trying to get 641 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: positive things done for the sportsman's community constituency, I look 642 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: at that and say, you know, are there opportunities to 643 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: do this in a different way that is either more 644 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: attractive to appropriators or can get us over the finish 645 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: line too full and permanent funding so that it doesn't 646 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: have to go through the appropriations process every single year. 647 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, because it has become somewhat politicized in some ways, 648 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: I think it can make it more difficult to have 649 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 1: those conversations um because people become more rigid, and people 650 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: in the advocate the community become more rigid, and then 651 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: by extension, members of Congress become more rigid um in 652 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: terms of their flexibility to look at things in a 653 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: in a pragmatic way and and say, hey, how are 654 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: there some changes that we could we could make that 655 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, maybe we up this from nine million to 656 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: one point five in exchange for making some modifications or 657 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: allowing some uh, you know, other folks to have a 658 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: vested stake in this, and uh that that's a difficult 659 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: message to deliver up there because everybody retreats to their 660 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: corners and says, either this is great or this is 661 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: not great. I imagine that rigidity comes from the fact 662 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: that ours oil and gas involved, and I think that 663 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: environmental issues involved. Yeah, those kind of things are coming 664 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: together with this. Yeah, there is. And you look at 665 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, back to your point about Pittman Robertson and 666 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: promoting that and educating people about it. Yeah. I will 667 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: often wonder if if we put as much money into 668 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: promoting Pittman Robertson UM as certain interests put into promoting 669 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: l WCF, UM, would it become more of the sacred 670 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: cow that LWCF has become. And um, you know, I 671 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: think LWCF has has done things have benefited me personally, 672 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, I mean some of the some of that 673 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: access I use all the time. I can think of 674 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: two or three places, and I can think of a 675 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: playground that Bosamontana where my kid was playing that I 676 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: looked at the sign and it said thanks to the 677 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: Land of War Conservation Fund. Absolutely seriously, Yeah, like are 678 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's just that's such an entangled thing 679 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: to understand. Yeah, and it's back to the nuance. It's 680 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: also difficult even when even when the money's there and 681 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: it's been appropriated, getting to the to the agencies and 682 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: and talking with them and how they spend it, and um, 683 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, our part of our job is to make 684 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: sure that they're spending at least a good chunk of 685 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: it in ways that ben of fit hunters and anglers, 686 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,959 Speaker 1: and um. You know that that is a very very 687 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: complicated question. And you know, their landowners involved and willing 688 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: real estate transactions and all these different layers to it 689 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: that make it a um, a very important but also 690 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: very challenging issue to deal with on a year to 691 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: year basis. Yeah, that's a good the good point you 692 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: make back to the point about you know, Pivin Robertson 693 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: and that system of funding not getting shined up and 694 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 1: put out there to the public as much. You know, 695 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: and it feels We had a public lands roundtable on 696 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: the podcast not long ago, and I was very much 697 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: saying that it's easy to follow the trend, right, It's 698 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: easy to hashtag something or say you're all about something 699 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: without really understanding what's going on. And I think there's 700 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: huge parts of that that mirror and politics. Some something 701 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: becomes trendy, something becomes the thing to do at that moment, 702 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: something that becomes things that makes you're popular inside the 703 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: halls of Congress and outside. You go do it with 704 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: out really understanding while leaving behind or or running right 705 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: over top of a very important system in this case 706 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: Pivian Robertson, it's great. Well, politics is a popularity contest 707 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: that it is that it is, well, it's good. I mean, 708 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: I know it's looking good that that the LWCF may 709 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: get fund and perpetuity. I think that would. Yeah, well, 710 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: we'll see. I mean, there there's a lot going on 711 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: on that front with the deadline coming up at the 712 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: end of the month, and I'm personally not worried about 713 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm suppose I shouldn't say I'm not worried 714 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: about it, but but you know, they're gonna they're gonna 715 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: they're gonna pass some short term continuing resolution to keep 716 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: the government floating along until after the elections. Um, the 717 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: big deadline is to get this thing passed into law 718 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: before the end of this Congress adjourns in December, because 719 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: if you don't you got to start all over again 720 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: with a new Congress. Nobody knows what that new Congress 721 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: is gonna look like, but you know, there's a lot 722 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: of work that's been done to get this year after 723 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: year back up to this point. And we gotta We 724 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: got a you know, a few years of authorization for 725 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: it the last time, and now it's time to see 726 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: if you can't, you know, drive it home. And as 727 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: Andy said, see if we can get this done. And 728 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, the brass ring is to get it done 729 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: with mandatory, permanently authorized funding. And you know, I still 730 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: think it's a win if you get it permanently authorized, 731 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: even if we have to go back to the appropriators, 732 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: because you can come fix that later. You know, to 733 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: go to zero and let let our perfect be the 734 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 1: perfect be the enemy the good again. I'm probably I'm 735 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: out on the limb where guys are gonna be throwing 736 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: rocks at me, you know, for saying these things. But 737 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: you have to be pragmatic in this job up here. 738 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: And there are times when it's not popular to say, 739 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 1: you know, we gotta cut, we gotta cut and run 740 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: with us. We did that with gray Wolves and in 741 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: Wyoming and Montana, the deal just wasn't there to do, 742 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, to I mean in Montana and Idaho, the 743 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: deal wasn't there at the time, for for for Wyoming, 744 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: let alone the Great Lakes. And you know, it was 745 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 1: not popular to say we're gonna cut. We're gonna encourage 746 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: cutting the deal and taking the wind for for Montana 747 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: and Idaho, just to just to break the log jam 748 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: and demonstrate we we have the backbone to say, you know, 749 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 1: enough is enough. These things need to be managed by 750 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: professional wildlife managers, not by not by the media and 751 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: the hype in Congress and so um, those are sometimes 752 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: the issues that that that we have to we have 753 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: to pick a side, and you know it's not always easy. Yeah, 754 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of There's not a lot, 755 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: but there's a few I can think of. I'm sure 756 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: you guys could talk circles around me a lot of 757 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: these issues. But things pop up, right, New Jersey black Bears, yeah, 758 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: most recent thing. Right, These things just pop up, not 759 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: out of nowhere. The New Jersey black bear thing has 760 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: been been circling around, so give me a quick I 761 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: think that's just a good example of these kind of 762 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,399 Speaker 1: issues that you're talking about. That pop up and you know, yeah, 763 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: this one's been swirling for a while. But well there's 764 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: that whether then there's good stuff too. I mean when 765 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: when FLIP came up earlier this year when they passed 766 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: the omnibus spending package, uh, I didn't anticipate that we 767 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: were going to have the opportunity to do something that 768 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: good as part of it. And you know, some of 769 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: our friends in the land trust community came to us 770 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: and said, Chairman Bishop is thinking about marking up a 771 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: Federal Land Transaction Facilitation Act bill that had been expired 772 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: since two thousand eleven. And we the acronym is flip 773 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: FA And it sounds kind of scary because it says 774 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: land Federal Land Transactions. Yeah, so, uh, it does sound 775 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: kind of scary, but it's actually a pretty solid program 776 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: where BLM can go out and identify part of their 777 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: regular planning process these isolated parcels or unusable parcels without 778 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: a lot of value you to the public, and they 779 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: can sell them and rather than that money just going 780 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: into the treasury, it goes into something called the Federal 781 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: Land Disposal Account, which they can pool money and use 782 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: it to buy better lands, you know, or landlocked parcels 783 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: or checker consolidate checkerboard things like that and uh and 784 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: we said, yeah, well, we'd be happy to help you, 785 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: uh with getting this program re authorized, but you know, 786 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: we we have some language you'd like you to consider. 787 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 1: And uh it was specifically to be able to spend 788 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: a portion of that money on landlocked parcels that have 789 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing access and uh they said okay, because 790 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: I assumed because they thought it would be helpful and 791 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: uh getting it over the finish line. But you know, 792 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: that was one of those things that we've been working 793 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: on it for a while, but just the small window 794 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: of opportunity something came up. We were ready, we could 795 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: get it in there, and uh that flew through. I 796 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: mean that was a three week process of getting some 797 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 1: more money for landlocked parcels in perpetuity and that's a 798 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: permanent authorizations. Yeah, I think I can think of more 799 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: as many wins is is there are you know, trouble 800 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: spots at this point. I can think of the fire 801 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: borrowing that was in that same ammum was packing as 802 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: another part of like whoa cool, Yeah, solve that problem. Yeah, 803 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, it comes together when you know when they 804 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: have to fund the entire federal government. Sometimes some opportunities 805 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: that aren't always there. Yeah, there's a good bad I've 806 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: tried to talk about that firebar Beca. Is it just 807 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: a good example of something you'll never hear about, right, 808 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: you ever hear about. But that's something that you know 809 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 1: when you talk about is there enough money to manage 810 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: these federal lands? Well, if you're stealing it for for fire, 811 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 1: fire suppression, fire suppression, um, he has not as much. Right, 812 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: you can't just go ask for more, I guess sports 813 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: than you could, but they're not going to um. So 814 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: those are small winds that could be celebrated as much 815 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: as the fights I think in in our on our 816 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: politics and our ad you know, being advocates, we just 817 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: want to focus on the fight, like we gotta fight that. 818 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 1: We gotta whack that mold down. We gotta whack that 819 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: mold down, whack that one down. But sometimes you know, 820 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: the dominants build passes and we've got a couple of 821 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,239 Speaker 1: wins to talk about. Yeah, doubt and some of the 822 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: some of that gets a little policy wonkish, and you 823 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: know that's that's part of the challenges. Why is that important? 824 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: You know, Why why is far fire borrowing important? Well, 825 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, as you said, if you can't be if 826 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: you're having to take money from inside the Forest Service 827 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,760 Speaker 1: and reprogram it for fire suppression because you're the West 828 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,719 Speaker 1: is burning up, or you're not being able to do 829 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: the proactive things for trails and access points, for parking areas, 830 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,360 Speaker 1: for management of streams and other habitat and things that. 831 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that becomes a back to the dollars and cents. 832 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: It becomes where can I put my Where do I 833 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 1: can put my money? And you can't just let it burn, 834 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:58,279 Speaker 1: you know because people people see that, you know, so 835 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, I mean that that becomes those those little 836 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: winds sometimes are are a lot bigger than just a 837 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: little win. You know. I can think of one. This 838 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: is now going back a long time ago in two 839 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: thousand and five when UM the Highway Bill was being 840 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 1: reauthorized and part of the Highway Bill is excise tax 841 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: on motor boat and small engine fuel that goes into 842 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:26,520 Speaker 1: the Dingle Johnson account UM and in terms of for 843 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: for bumping up that amount, and we were only getting 844 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,399 Speaker 1: fourteen point nine percent we as a sportsman's community out 845 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: of the eighteen point three cents. So there was about 846 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: a nickel in there that wasn't coming back into it 847 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: was just going into the Highway Fund. And we successfully 848 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: argued and got that money to come in there. And 849 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 1: since that time it's over a billion dollars of additional 850 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: funding for for fisheries, conservation and habitat, for boat ramps, 851 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: for boat safety. You know, I mean that's real money 852 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,959 Speaker 1: at a looking at a little nickel and saying we're 853 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: missing that on and getting our fair share of this thing, 854 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 1: and that was not what it was intended. And we 855 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: were able to get that back. That was a very 856 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: boring little fight, and yet at the same time, the 857 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: net impact of that thing has been dramatic. Yeah, when 858 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: you put it in those terms, I think people are 859 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: probably happy to have you guys around, right, So um, 860 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: I am, and I think that it's those things are 861 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: being able to it's it's erroneous at some level to 862 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: expect every sportsman to understand all this stuff. You know, 863 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: you still have the time of the day. They'd rather 864 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: be sitting in a duck blind of course, and so 865 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: I think, you know, as part of this conversation is 866 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,840 Speaker 1: understand that there's guys like out there like yourselves that 867 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,240 Speaker 1: are handling it, take care of it, working on their behalf. 868 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: I think that's important, um, as much as anything with 869 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: this policy stuff. Really, it bubbles up all the time, 870 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: and it bubbles up to a point where they hear 871 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,120 Speaker 1: about it. Like the Black Bears, you don't hear out 872 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,479 Speaker 1: it until it's a it's a full on fist fight. 873 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: But it'd be nice to cut that off for it 874 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,200 Speaker 1: before it's people with signs, you know, protest in the 875 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: Black Bear. Yeah, and you know we do again, we 876 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,359 Speaker 1: do some of that stuff, and we do successfully cut 877 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,160 Speaker 1: it off before it gets there. Unfortunately, the you know, 878 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 1: the ones that do show up, like the Black Bear hunt, 879 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, they make instant, instant national media stuff because 880 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: people I have a wrong perception about what a bear is, 881 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,440 Speaker 1: and then then it just that just inflames it and 882 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: by then then the game gets pretty dang hard for 883 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 1: us at that point without a change in the administration 884 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,799 Speaker 1: up there. Well, yeah, and you've been so let's hit 885 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: that real quick stup, assuming everyone knows. Can you give 886 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: me a quick rundown of the most recent legislation past 887 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 1: and New Jersey are the most recent ban, right, So 888 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,680 Speaker 1: it wasn't and again i'll let Andy if i'm if 889 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 1: I go off. I don't think it was legislation. I 890 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: think it was a decision made by the now governor 891 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,040 Speaker 1: uh and his department up there to say that they 892 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: were going to suspend the bear hunt and definitely and 893 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: basically stop it. And that's what's happened. And you know, 894 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 1: all of us know that that management is done really 895 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,840 Speaker 1: well well, and it's regulated and hunting plays a critical 896 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 1: role in that component of this thing. And the bear 897 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: hunt has been very successful in New Jersey, and because 898 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: New Jersey has a lot of black bears and and so, um, 899 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,799 Speaker 1: it's been a good tool. It's been working well. Um, 900 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,319 Speaker 1: the Anti's obviously got into somebody's ear or is he ear, 901 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: and whispered enough and got enough traction on this thing 902 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: that that they decided, you know, against the against the 903 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: direction of their Fish and Game Agencies or DNROR whatever 904 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,719 Speaker 1: it's called New Jersey to go ahead and and implement 905 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: this band. And you know, that's that's where politics can 906 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: come in and in a bad way, you know. And 907 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 1: so unfortunately, as I said, and maybe you know, hopefully 908 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: it isn't gonna being something bad happens to somebody up 909 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,880 Speaker 1: there that's gonna trigger something. Um, but it's gonna take something, 910 00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 1: you know, beyond rational common sense. I think to try 911 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 1: to put this back on track, and I think, you know, 912 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: I'm afraid it's gone for this fall on. Yeah, it 913 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 1: sounds like it is. Uh. Do you feel like it's 914 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: a slippery slope there? I mean I'm always wary of 915 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 1: the slippery slope part of me, like, don't make any 916 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,120 Speaker 1: changes or it's all gonna go. Um. Do you feel 917 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: like the the bear hunting specifically we've seen in British 918 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: Columbia and now you see it in New Jersey where people, 919 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,799 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, bears are a tipping point for where 920 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: hunting lives and doesn't live and what's appropriate what's not. 921 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: Do you feel like this recent set of bear related 922 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: bands hunting bands are slippery slope or if if we 923 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,400 Speaker 1: allow it to continue, or if it does continue outside 924 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,240 Speaker 1: of our control. Next thing we know, they're banning deer hunts, 925 00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,919 Speaker 1: and they're banning cod hunts, and they're banning all things 926 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,880 Speaker 1: like that. I would say, make no mistake that the 927 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 1: same people who want to ban the bear hunt want 928 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: to ban deer hunts. Uh, whether it's a slippy, slippery slope. 929 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, we've had we've had this 930 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,279 Speaker 1: stuff going on. Um, you know, we lost spring bear 931 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:22,880 Speaker 1: hunting in Colorado, and um we opened black bear hunting 932 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,640 Speaker 1: in the state of Maryland and yeah, eight or nine 933 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:31,520 Speaker 1: or ten years ago something like that. Those and it's 934 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,440 Speaker 1: increasing and you know, the number of bears that they're taking. 935 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: So there are there are some wins that go along 936 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,799 Speaker 1: with with the losses. Absolutely, and there's you know, the 937 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 1: really screwed up thing about the New Jersey situation is 938 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,720 Speaker 1: that I believe that executive order that the governor signed 939 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:52,480 Speaker 1: directed his state agency director to ban bear hunting on 940 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,359 Speaker 1: the state game lands. And the ironic thing about that 941 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 1: is all of those properties were acquired by the State 942 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:03,200 Speaker 1: of New Jersey use Pittman Robertson money that was produced 943 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: by hunters and shooters. And so you know, I think 944 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:13,040 Speaker 1: there there's a philosophical and a practical problem there. Um. 945 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's so many problems with the concept. 946 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,319 Speaker 1: I mean, since we lost the bear hunt in Colorado, um, 947 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, we've got we've got way more bears and 948 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 1: a lot of those bears are dying anyway. From vehicle 949 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,280 Speaker 1: collisions or because they're getting into somebody's trash and steamboat 950 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 1: or Aspen or Durango, and we've we've got over taxed 951 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: State Fish Wilife Agency employees. You know, we had one 952 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,799 Speaker 1: summer where they were spending I think the statistic was 953 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: just in one area between Glenwood Springs and Aspen, where 954 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: a lot of those bear problems exist, forty thou man 955 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,560 Speaker 1: hours just responding to problem bears. And you know, I 956 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: don't think there's anyone that is reasonable that thinks that 957 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,919 Speaker 1: our State Fish and Wildlife Agency employees time is best 958 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,360 Speaker 1: spent responding to Oh yeah, an old lady that says 959 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,719 Speaker 1: she's got a bear opening your trash can in her backyard. Yeah, 960 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,960 Speaker 1: I mean go to go to California mount lines, the 961 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,480 Speaker 1: same idea, Yeah, yeah, any other thing. Per cent of 962 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: those cats have household pets in their in their stomach 963 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 1: when unique crop see them after the state has to 964 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: go in and kill them because they've got in trouble. Yeah, 965 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's if you was if you were to 966 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: stack up. I'm always at the point like hunters aren't 967 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,480 Speaker 1: always right, Like we're not always we're not always educated enough. 968 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,560 Speaker 1: She just just the regular person. I don't know about 969 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,879 Speaker 1: you man, and he's always right. That's why we've added 970 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,359 Speaker 1: him to the podcast. Jeff and I, we don't know 971 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 1: no Maryland, that's right, apparently guys pragmatic. No, no, it 972 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: all's out west. Um, that's why you're moving to monteam. 973 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,279 Speaker 1: I would get to know more and more that I 974 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,680 Speaker 1: think about that. But I think, yeah, you were to 975 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,200 Speaker 1: stack up the hypocrisies in the animal rights community that 976 00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't take along and be pretty high stack Um, I 977 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,919 Speaker 1: think there you know, like you said, there's there's there's 978 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,959 Speaker 1: just so rooted in success, what's happened in the hunting 979 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,439 Speaker 1: space and fishing space to these conservation successes. You could 980 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: stack them up as high as the hypocrisies on the 981 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,760 Speaker 1: animal right side and say, look, yeah, if you're an animal, 982 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,799 Speaker 1: you're listed on the Endangered Species Act, well, yes, say 983 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,799 Speaker 1: that if you it should be a victory to get 984 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,239 Speaker 1: delisted and hunted again. If you were to look at 985 00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,239 Speaker 1: the whole of the species, if you look at this, 986 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,319 Speaker 1: you know, in the case of Wyoming's grizzling bear hunt, 987 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,080 Speaker 1: if you were to look at just those twenty two 988 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: grizzlies that are gonna get killed. Okay, Yeah, but if 989 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 1: you look at the whole of the population, it's it's 990 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,840 Speaker 1: a win. It's a victory to completely opened up, elisted 991 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,920 Speaker 1: and hunted again. And that's every uh, every species out 992 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,279 Speaker 1: there that it's a hounrible game species. Most of them 993 00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,960 Speaker 1: were We're saved and and brought to bear by these policies, 994 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 1: and most of them never ended up on the endangered 995 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,879 Speaker 1: species list. You look at you look at that list, 996 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: you don't see a lot of game species on there. 997 00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,920 Speaker 1: And I think there's something to be learned there. I 998 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,680 Speaker 1: wish more people would pay attention to that part of it, Um. 999 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,320 Speaker 1: But I think part of the stage grouse stuff is 1000 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,400 Speaker 1: because there are people that are are committed to that 1001 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,759 Speaker 1: because they enjoyed hunting them. Yeah, what are you know 1002 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,200 Speaker 1: we get We can get really deep down this rabbit hole. 1003 00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,759 Speaker 1: But I would I'd love to just go over in 1004 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,080 Speaker 1: some detail here in the last part of the podcast. 1005 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,160 Speaker 1: You know what you guys are working on right now, 1006 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,239 Speaker 1: um that maybe maybe it is getting publicity, maybe it's 1007 00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,400 Speaker 1: not something that you guys feel is very important to 1008 00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,399 Speaker 1: um the caucus into the foundation and to what you're 1009 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 1: working on. You know, I would imagine that like the 1010 00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,719 Speaker 1: main tenants that most hunters here about farm bill, Um, 1011 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 1: anything public Lilands related seems to be in their ear, 1012 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,560 Speaker 1: and anything firearms related seems to be in their ear. 1013 00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,400 Speaker 1: But I'm sure there's many, many, many other things that 1014 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,360 Speaker 1: even farm Bill seems to be something that used to 1015 00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,920 Speaker 1: be on the tip of every hunter's tongue, but not 1016 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,880 Speaker 1: so much anymore. So. Is there anything I know, it's 1017 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,600 Speaker 1: broad again question, but anything on there that you guys 1018 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,480 Speaker 1: are pounding on really hard that that folks need to 1019 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:22,000 Speaker 1: know about. Yeah, we've we've got a couple of things 1020 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,480 Speaker 1: moving in the last week or two. UM. One is 1021 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,880 Speaker 1: a bill called the Modernizing Pittman Robertson for Tomorrow's Needs Act, 1022 00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,840 Speaker 1: And I like how you guys with the act names 1023 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,800 Speaker 1: are always it's impossible. Yeah, that's that's also by design, 1024 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: we're making so complicated that nobody can you can't ever 1025 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,560 Speaker 1: keep up with them. But that one would provide the 1026 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,200 Speaker 1: states a little more flexibility on how they use their 1027 00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:57,840 Speaker 1: Pittman Robertson allocations so that they can support some recruitment, retention, 1028 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,360 Speaker 1: and reactivation. Are three. There's other are Yeah, there's another 1029 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,960 Speaker 1: one for you, but they're they're somewhat restricted on how 1030 00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,240 Speaker 1: they can use that money, uh, as they should be. 1031 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,040 Speaker 1: But I think there's a growing recognition that some of 1032 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,720 Speaker 1: the declines in hunting numbers are a threat to the 1033 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,120 Speaker 1: funding model we've already talked about earlier today. And UH, 1034 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,880 Speaker 1: there are some states that want to have some additional 1035 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:28,040 Speaker 1: flexibility to use that money to recruit and retain and 1036 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: reactivate new hunters. And so that's that's getting some traction. UH. 1037 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,800 Speaker 1: There's another bill that's up is it tomorrow or tomorrow 1038 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,600 Speaker 1: or Wednesday? That is called the Target Practice and Marksmanship 1039 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 1: Training Support Act, and that that one also allows the state. 1040 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,320 Speaker 1: It's a little more flexibility with how they can use 1041 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,160 Speaker 1: their shooting range grant programs. They're funded by Pittman Robertson. 1042 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 1: And part of the issue now is they have to 1043 00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,360 Speaker 1: come up with a state or local match to build 1044 00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: a range. And this bill would lower the local or 1045 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,960 Speaker 1: state match requirement to ten and rather than that two 1046 00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,320 Speaker 1: year window to obligate the money that exists now, they 1047 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,440 Speaker 1: would extend it out to five. So the states and 1048 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,160 Speaker 1: the locals have to come up with a little bit 1049 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,720 Speaker 1: less and have longer to do it. And part of 1050 00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:24,360 Speaker 1: the motivation behind that is just with urbanization and uh sprawl, 1051 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,680 Speaker 1: there's fewer places for people to shoot. They're more public 1052 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,200 Speaker 1: land shooting conflicts out there, and you know, there's a 1053 00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,840 Speaker 1: there's a threat of lost access if you like to 1054 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 1: shoot on public lands and you live anywhere near a 1055 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: metropolitan area of any size. And so the hope is 1056 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,040 Speaker 1: that if this passes, will be a little easier to 1057 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,960 Speaker 1: get some ranges on the ground and build some of 1058 00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,840 Speaker 1: that stuff up, give people places to go, hopefully take 1059 00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,800 Speaker 1: care of some of those conflicts with other recreational users 1060 00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,600 Speaker 1: and adjacent landowners things like that. That's so those are 1061 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,120 Speaker 1: good things and things that you know, a lot of 1062 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,919 Speaker 1: people don't know. Most hunter safety courses are all state 1063 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,040 Speaker 1: hunter safety initiatives paid for by Pittman Robertson as that 1064 01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 1: how it works, Yeah, at least partially partially, UM, folks 1065 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,360 Speaker 1: just don't know that. I didn't know until recently. UM. 1066 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,080 Speaker 1: And so there's just little parts of that that I've 1067 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,160 Speaker 1: written about and talked about. But having you guys on 1068 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,920 Speaker 1: to be able to articulate how it gets from an 1069 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,240 Speaker 1: idea or a good idea, and sometimes it's like a 1070 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,520 Speaker 1: back end good idea, like oh, we could do this, uh, 1071 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,280 Speaker 1: in addition to all the other things we're doing on 1072 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,200 Speaker 1: this bill or this package of legislation. So that's a 1073 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,040 Speaker 1: that's a big deal. Yeah, I think you know, some 1074 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:38,160 Speaker 1: of the administrative stuff has been really solid too. With 1075 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,440 Speaker 1: the expansion of hunting in the National Wilife Refuge system. Um, 1076 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,919 Speaker 1: you know, we've got hundreds of thousands of acres more 1077 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,520 Speaker 1: places to go hunt now since they've been trying to 1078 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,760 Speaker 1: marry those refuge regulations up with the state management objectives 1079 01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,560 Speaker 1: and state regulations. It sounds like we're gonna get be 1080 01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:01,080 Speaker 1: able to carry bows across national parks um real soon. 1081 01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about that. That was that one was 1082 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:11,240 Speaker 1: just a ridiculous oversight by somebody, um seven or eight 1083 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,280 Speaker 1: years ago when they passed that bill that allowed to 1084 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:20,320 Speaker 1: carry a firearm across the national parks. So you know, 1085 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,280 Speaker 1: if you're if you're wanting to go access BLM or 1086 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,959 Speaker 1: for service or even private land, but you got across 1087 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,320 Speaker 1: the national park to get there, you could carry a 1088 01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,040 Speaker 1: loaded firearm if you're a gun hunter, but not andy 1089 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: bows are dangerous carrying bows around. Somebody didn't get cut. 1090 01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,600 Speaker 1: Somebody had to sit there and ride those guys and 1091 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,840 Speaker 1: ride those guys and ride those guys and say this 1092 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,200 Speaker 1: is important enough that they're going to actually issue you know, 1093 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,439 Speaker 1: um and whatever director's order or whatever it's gonna take. 1094 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,840 Speaker 1: It took a regulatory change, I mean regulatory and nonce 1095 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,840 Speaker 1: a regulatory change to move to move that needle and 1096 01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,080 Speaker 1: just take care of something that was an over I 1097 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,160 Speaker 1: was was pretty simple on things. So you know, I 1098 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:08,040 Speaker 1: think that's important too. I mean we, I think everyone 1099 01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,760 Speaker 1: in our society, but hunters too. There's these ideas that 1100 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:16,840 Speaker 1: these large, you know, pieces of legislation or even legs, 1101 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,560 Speaker 1: things that are legacy legislations have been going on like 1102 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,840 Speaker 1: Pitt and Robins forever. They just come and go and 1103 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,840 Speaker 1: they do their thing and nobody really has to work 1104 01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,720 Speaker 1: at it. But if you follow the money from you know, 1105 01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,920 Speaker 1: when the manufacturer pays their excise tax to where to win, 1106 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:31,960 Speaker 1: it goes in a lot of cases to the I R. 1107 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 1: S and the you know, a US fish and wildlife, 1108 01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:35,680 Speaker 1: and then it goes to the states and the states 1109 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,520 Speaker 1: have to do this. And if you follow that money, 1110 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,960 Speaker 1: you just kind of get tired, right, It's hard to 1111 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,280 Speaker 1: even read that stuff. So um, you know, folks just 1112 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,360 Speaker 1: understand how how complicated, how good of a system it is, 1113 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,920 Speaker 1: it's still complicated. It still takes so much to get 1114 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,560 Speaker 1: that money in the right place and when it's there, 1115 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,440 Speaker 1: to get it used in the right way. To think 1116 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 1: about all those guys sitting in a room in nineteen 1117 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,840 Speaker 1: thirties coming up with that, Yeah smart, but smart without internet? 1118 01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,960 Speaker 1: Yeah smart. Yeah, that's a division. So I mean, that's 1119 01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, I think our challenges are to look at 1120 01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,840 Speaker 1: those big, big opportunities for the twenty first century. And 1121 01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, the little stuff is super important, and we're 1122 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,800 Speaker 1: always going to be diligent and going after that, but 1123 01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,480 Speaker 1: some of these big things, you know. Um. Another one 1124 01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:26,320 Speaker 1: we haven't talked about is the Recovering America's Wildlife Act, 1125 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,400 Speaker 1: which is uh an effort to try to get out 1126 01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:34,919 Speaker 1: in front of primarily the species of greatest concerns because again, 1127 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,280 Speaker 1: the states just don't have the money anymore to go 1128 01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,200 Speaker 1: after all the all the things that the wildlife agencies 1129 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,520 Speaker 1: have to do now. And there's somewhere in the neighborhood 1130 01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,280 Speaker 1: of eleven or twelve thousand potential candidate plant and animals 1131 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,200 Speaker 1: species that that are could end up on the threatened 1132 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,640 Speaker 1: or endangered species and I don't you know, I would 1133 01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:57,280 Speaker 1: argue nobody wants to see that happen. And if we can, 1134 01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,520 Speaker 1: if we can do proactive man dagement and and get 1135 01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,680 Speaker 1: out in front of this thing, it will not only 1136 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,280 Speaker 1: be good for a conservation, it will be it'll be 1137 01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,360 Speaker 1: smart for America in terms of dollars and cents and so. UM. 1138 01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,240 Speaker 1: We've we've generated quite a bit of interest in this, 1139 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,160 Speaker 1: in this legislation in the House and the Senate. We 1140 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,080 Speaker 1: were candidly a bit disappointed that we couldn't figure out 1141 01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,720 Speaker 1: a way to weave it into the House Resources UH 1142 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,800 Speaker 1: Committee mark up last week where they did the Atlanta 1143 01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:31,040 Speaker 1: water conservation funding. They did UH maintenance backlogs and park 1144 01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:33,280 Speaker 1: service and whatnot. There was a lot of money that 1145 01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:35,520 Speaker 1: was coming out and we're all supportive of that. This 1146 01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,640 Speaker 1: would have round it in our mind, this would have 1147 01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,160 Speaker 1: really rounded that package up to get to this level. 1148 01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,160 Speaker 1: To it just didn't make it yet. Um, we're still 1149 01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,200 Speaker 1: not giving up. We've still got you know, um, some 1150 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,280 Speaker 1: other thoughts and things and in mind to try to 1151 01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,040 Speaker 1: make it happen. But you know, that would have that 1152 01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:54,840 Speaker 1: would have been a shot in the arm to add 1153 01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 1: that put into that mix and Uh, now, those are 1154 01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,360 Speaker 1: the bits of disappointments, and when you're talking into the 1155 01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,360 Speaker 1: chairman and he's like, no, it's not gonna make it, 1156 01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,040 Speaker 1: and you're just you know, it's frustrating, but we're still 1157 01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,960 Speaker 1: going to be there. Ninety four House co sponsors on 1158 01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:15,680 Speaker 1: the bill right now, and and bipartisan um leadership on 1159 01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,520 Speaker 1: it in the Senate, and uh, it's just too important 1160 01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:22,280 Speaker 1: in terms of a big long term conservation fix for 1161 01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,400 Speaker 1: us to not be driving this thing as well. So now, 1162 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,400 Speaker 1: and I think, how would you describe me? And I 1163 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,479 Speaker 1: hear you talk about that, in my own mind, having 1164 01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:36,240 Speaker 1: some experience with the Sports's Caucus codifies kind of how 1165 01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,480 Speaker 1: important that caucus really is because of what it does. 1166 01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,400 Speaker 1: But how is you just described You know, we told 1167 01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,400 Speaker 1: people in the beginning what it is, but how would 1168 01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,960 Speaker 1: you describe its importance and kind of its impact on 1169 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:48,160 Speaker 1: the caucus itself on legislation like that. If you look 1170 01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,440 Speaker 1: at a lot of the legislation that's out there that 1171 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,400 Speaker 1: we've discussed during this podcast and that you discussed on 1172 01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:57,840 Speaker 1: other podcast, I would almost guarantee you that every one 1173 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,640 Speaker 1: of those bills is introduced and largely supported by members 1174 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,080 Speaker 1: of the Sportsman's Caucus not true on everything, but you know, 1175 01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,240 Speaker 1: there's an awful lot of support from that. It gives 1176 01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,000 Speaker 1: us the opportunity to be able to reach those guys 1177 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,720 Speaker 1: in a very credible fashion. We've been around in this 1178 01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:18,000 Speaker 1: town for nearly thirty years. Um. The ethos that we 1179 01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,439 Speaker 1: have here is do not do not ever get caught 1180 01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,919 Speaker 1: up playing partisan politics, and do not ever get caught 1181 01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:29,960 Speaker 1: up given somebody partial information or god forbid, the wrong information. 1182 01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: You know, you have to be CSF has to be 1183 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,800 Speaker 1: the credible source that that they can rely on that 1184 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,120 Speaker 1: we're going to give them the whole picture, tell them 1185 01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,520 Speaker 1: this is what's going on. You know, this is where 1186 01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,560 Speaker 1: it is. And and I think that we've we've earned 1187 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,520 Speaker 1: that reputation because we're here, We see these guys, we 1188 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,680 Speaker 1: see the staff members here, and so I think it's 1189 01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:54,160 Speaker 1: a critically important function to have that that group of people, 1190 01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,920 Speaker 1: if nothing else, that they trust us to get good 1191 01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,480 Speaker 1: information to them in a timely fashion because we can 1192 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,520 Speaker 1: do it quickly here. You know, whether it's a electronic 1193 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,560 Speaker 1: push up the button to get something up, what you 1194 01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,920 Speaker 1: could do from anywhere. But more importantly, if you have 1195 01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,360 Speaker 1: to hustle two blocks up the up the street for 1196 01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,080 Speaker 1: a meeting with somebody that gets called at five o'clock 1197 01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,640 Speaker 1: at night when they're saying, now, what exactly do you 1198 01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:18,840 Speaker 1: want us to slide in here? And you have to 1199 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,480 Speaker 1: be there to explain that. You know, the Biparson thing 1200 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:26,560 Speaker 1: strikes me as something that you know everybody can take 1201 01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,200 Speaker 1: to heart, like that that you guys are focusing on 1202 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,320 Speaker 1: making sure what you're doing is best for wildlife conservation, hunters, 1203 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,640 Speaker 1: anglers before it's oh, hey, we really believe that you know, 1204 01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,320 Speaker 1: we're pro extraction anti extraction. Don't start there. You start 1205 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,720 Speaker 1: with um, the core of what we do, who we are. 1206 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:46,640 Speaker 1: You know, the stuff hanging in your office tells a 1207 01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,360 Speaker 1: lot about those things too, and I think that's important. 1208 01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,680 Speaker 1: But have you seen, Jeff, because you've been around many decades, 1209 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,920 Speaker 1: have you seen more challenges in recent administrations? You know, 1210 01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,400 Speaker 1: the Trump administration, the Obama administration. Have you seen more 1211 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,680 Speaker 1: wild swings and partisan politics like I can think of 1212 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:06,000 Speaker 1: the Bears the Year's National Monument is like the political 1213 01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,560 Speaker 1: football that they're just throwing back and forth. And I 1214 01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,960 Speaker 1: know from talking to some folks on the ground there 1215 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,120 Speaker 1: that that just makes it harder to manage that that 1216 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,639 Speaker 1: piece of land effectively if it keeps getting its designation 1217 01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,040 Speaker 1: change because it's a you know, political win or political 1218 01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,719 Speaker 1: loss or whatever. Have you seen that heightened in recent 1219 01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,680 Speaker 1: administrations or it has always been the challenge now, I 1220 01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,439 Speaker 1: would say, and not just administrations, the Congress to um. 1221 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:32,640 Speaker 1: You know, Unfortunately, I think it's it's been heightened. Uh. 1222 01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,840 Speaker 1: And I think part of it is just the electronic age. Uh, 1223 01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you know, you're constantly being 1224 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:43,519 Speaker 1: able to just bombard your position polarized. You know, people 1225 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,519 Speaker 1: want to weigh in on stuff that they used to 1226 01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:48,679 Speaker 1: have to write a letter to you remember a Congress 1227 01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,519 Speaker 1: and things like that. I can just punch something into 1228 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:55,080 Speaker 1: your keyboard. And unfortunately, it's just it has created that 1229 01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:59,760 Speaker 1: that image of polarizing and and our stuff gets caught 1230 01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,960 Speaker 1: in UM sometimes you know, a bear's years or something 1231 01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,599 Speaker 1: like that. Maybe it is in there anyway, but sometimes 1232 01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,639 Speaker 1: we just get caught. I mean, we've come so close 1233 01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:13,920 Speaker 1: to getting a sportsman's package done, you know, over the years, 1234 01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,360 Speaker 1: and then found out at the very end it's caught 1235 01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,799 Speaker 1: up in just purely partisan politics. They didn't want Obama 1236 01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:21,920 Speaker 1: to get a win, you know, and two years ago 1237 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,439 Speaker 1: on his way out the door to sign a pro 1238 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,800 Speaker 1: sportsman's bill, and that's what basically happened to it. And 1239 01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,280 Speaker 1: and you know, that's the kind of stuff that that 1240 01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,519 Speaker 1: is frustrating. And yeah, it's gotten worse, and it's both sides. 1241 01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,320 Speaker 1: There's there's plenty of blame to go across both sides 1242 01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,519 Speaker 1: of the political aisle. And um, the stakes are high, 1243 01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,639 Speaker 1: the money is high, um for these kinds of things. 1244 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,080 Speaker 1: And as I say, I attribute part of it just 1245 01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:52,520 Speaker 1: to the electronic new age making it that much more polarizing. 1246 01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,080 Speaker 1: I would imagine that in the grand scheme of like 1247 01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,280 Speaker 1: human communication were toddlers when it comes to using digital communication. 1248 01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:00,800 Speaker 1: We don't know how to do it. We don't know 1249 01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:04,720 Speaker 1: how to do it effectively. Mostly it's just garbage. But 1250 01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,599 Speaker 1: you know, it's not it's good to know that there's 1251 01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of winds happening in this building. There's 1252 01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,040 Speaker 1: a lot of winds happening. Then uh on Capitol Hill 1253 01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,479 Speaker 1: here for sportsmen, I mean, that's a huge thing I 1254 01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,960 Speaker 1: think for people to understand. It's not you know, if 1255 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,160 Speaker 1: you get wrapped in a community of people, or you're 1256 01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,160 Speaker 1: wrapped in an organization that wants to make it seem 1257 01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,640 Speaker 1: like the sky is falling. It's falling in parts, but 1258 01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,479 Speaker 1: it's not all it's not all falling. It's it's never 1259 01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,200 Speaker 1: never as good as you think it's gonna be, and 1260 01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,240 Speaker 1: it's probably never as bad as you Yeah, I think 1261 01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,960 Speaker 1: that goes back to that slippery slope argument. There's some 1262 01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,599 Speaker 1: more organizations around on both sides of of the ticket 1263 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:43,280 Speaker 1: here that would say the sky is falling gets members, 1264 01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,800 Speaker 1: the sky is falling gets people to act, And that 1265 01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,080 Speaker 1: scares me sometimes to the to the point where where, um, 1266 01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:51,760 Speaker 1: I've seen it, like I said, I've seen it on 1267 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:53,400 Speaker 1: one side and I've seen it on the other. I've 1268 01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,760 Speaker 1: seen one side that says I hate that organization, Like, well, 1269 01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:58,439 Speaker 1: you're doing the same thing they are, just for a 1270 01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,559 Speaker 1: different cause. Um, So that's pretty scary to me. I mean, 1271 01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,040 Speaker 1: that's you feel like, that's pretty damning on sometimes in 1272 01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,479 Speaker 1: the sports's community. Is just you want to feel like 1273 01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,240 Speaker 1: you motivate people to act, and your motivations can then 1274 01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:14,439 Speaker 1: become a little bit muddy. Doesn't help, Yeah, for sure, 1275 01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,280 Speaker 1: it never helps, you know, And and and that's just 1276 01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:21,439 Speaker 1: not our that's not our m oh here. Um, that's 1277 01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,000 Speaker 1: just not our style a or and and you know, 1278 01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,479 Speaker 1: do we get frustrated when things come off the rails? Yeah, 1279 01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,560 Speaker 1: you bet. You know, there's a lot of effort and 1280 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,600 Speaker 1: time and energy and anticipation and when it doesn't go 1281 01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,920 Speaker 1: right it it can be pretty maddening. But you know, 1282 01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,760 Speaker 1: the winds are the winds are are equally as rewarding. 1283 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,599 Speaker 1: And if we can get those hunter numbers to turn 1284 01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,280 Speaker 1: the corner and start coming back up, and we can 1285 01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,840 Speaker 1: keep making making sure that we've got clean water and 1286 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,800 Speaker 1: you know, good landscapes and good habitat management and get 1287 01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:58,000 Speaker 1: people outside, you know, I think that's that's I know personally, 1288 01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,200 Speaker 1: that's what I get more motivated by, is to make 1289 01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,960 Speaker 1: sure that we can hand hand this off and you know, 1290 01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:06,800 Speaker 1: I can feel like I've done my part to pass 1291 01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,599 Speaker 1: it on, you know, so that's a huge part. Thank 1292 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,120 Speaker 1: you for that. You're bad for sure. I think before 1293 01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,560 Speaker 1: we end the podcast, we should talk about hunting. That 1294 01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,559 Speaker 1: sounds good. You want to do layoff policy for a minute? Um, 1295 01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:26,640 Speaker 1: we're in Jeff, you're telling me about your your Colorado adventures. 1296 01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,559 Speaker 1: So what are you most excited about about the fall? 1297 01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,479 Speaker 1: You're gonna go hunt elk in Colorado? Second, rifle and 1298 01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:35,400 Speaker 1: second rifle and southwestern Colorado, and I have been doing 1299 01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:37,960 Speaker 1: it for a number of years now with a small 1300 01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:41,280 Speaker 1: group of buddies, and uh, you know, it's a high 1301 01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,280 Speaker 1: mountain camp. It's awesome and just for for a guy 1302 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,960 Speaker 1: that that spends most of his time hunting in the east, 1303 01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:49,160 Speaker 1: just to be out on those mountains and in the 1304 01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,519 Speaker 1: vistas and you know that here the elk and just 1305 01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,599 Speaker 1: they're just magnificent. The views are magnificent, and the buddies 1306 01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,040 Speaker 1: that I'm with, it's a special time and we all 1307 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,360 Speaker 1: look for word to it. And it's a little dry 1308 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,760 Speaker 1: out there, some fingers crossed it. Maybe some moisture will 1309 01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,439 Speaker 1: generators and we'll take care of that for you. We 1310 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:13,840 Speaker 1: direct some of this hurricane. We'll take it. Andy. What 1311 01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,040 Speaker 1: do you got on the dock? I've got a third 1312 01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:20,559 Speaker 1: season elk hunt in western Colorado and Grand Mesa lined up, 1313 01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,760 Speaker 1: going with some buddies from high school that I haven't 1314 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,920 Speaker 1: hunted in a while with and uh, got some old 1315 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:32,559 Speaker 1: men going with us. Should be some good stories, even 1316 01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:37,880 Speaker 1: older than you. Yeah, So hopefully they don't shoot anything, 1317 01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:39,720 Speaker 1: because I'm sure I'll have to carry it out if 1318 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:44,280 Speaker 1: they do. But that's probably why I'm invited. So that's 1319 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:48,360 Speaker 1: half the fun anymore. Yeah, yeah, I'm just off the mountain. Yeah, 1320 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,720 Speaker 1: I've got I've got two little kids at home, so 1321 01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,960 Speaker 1: any any time I can sneak out is a good time. Yeah, 1322 01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:56,599 Speaker 1: I know that feeling. Another feeling. Well, thank you, gentlemen. 1323 01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Sit down, Thanks for what you do. Um. 1324 01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,479 Speaker 1: Thanks for fighting sportsmen and making sure we have a voice. 1325 01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:09,519 Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Thank you, Thanks, Thanks, that's it. That's all 1326 01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:17,000 Speaker 1: episode number nine in the books. I really appreciate Jeff 1327 01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,559 Speaker 1: Crane and Andy Treharn hanging out, what they had to say, 1328 01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,479 Speaker 1: how they describe what they do for a living, um, 1329 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,800 Speaker 1: And really most of all to me, bottom line on 1330 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,439 Speaker 1: this thing is how many times they brought up, brought 1331 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,640 Speaker 1: up bipartisanship, how many times they brought up having any 1332 01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,880 Speaker 1: dal with parts of politics, um and having to work 1333 01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:42,599 Speaker 1: around them. And and bravo, bravo to these guys from 1334 01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:47,519 Speaker 1: being the voices for bipartisanship, for working hard on what 1335 01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:49,719 Speaker 1: I come. We consider some of these are the little things, 1336 01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,559 Speaker 1: the little details that will allow us to continue doing 1337 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:57,679 Speaker 1: what we do outside. And so don't forget about Andy 1338 01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,679 Speaker 1: and Jeff and CSF what they do as go and hunt, 1339 01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:05,320 Speaker 1: you go and fish, and your money's are funneled back 1340 01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: into conservation because they are important. So let's not forget 1341 01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:15,680 Speaker 1: them as we go out this fall. Go hunting. Uh. 1342 01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:19,240 Speaker 1: Next time on the show, we're gonna catch up with 1343 01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:25,759 Speaker 1: Charles the Rabbitman Rodney, another resident of the DC area, 1344 01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,560 Speaker 1: somebody I've hunted within the past. He is an amazing 1345 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,320 Speaker 1: character and his nickname is the Rabbit Man. So come 1346 01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,719 Speaker 1: on back for that next week. Until then, Honey Collective 1347 01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:43,120 Speaker 1: dot com for articles, for video, for all the other stuff. 1348 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,400 Speaker 1: With this podcast, I want you to continue to go 1349 01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:51,519 Speaker 1: there and hang out, and soon enough you'll find that 1350 01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,479 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a new home for the Hunting Collective. 1351 01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,360 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in the week to come, very 1352 01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:00,360 Speaker 1: very soon, and hopefully you will pique that as I am. 1353 01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:06,280 Speaker 1: So we will see you for episode thirty next Tuesday morning. 1354 01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:07,639 Speaker 1: Back