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Speaker 4: Year this Friday and Saturday, starting at ten thirty pm Eastern,

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Speaker 4: seven thirty Pacific.

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Speaker 7: Hey Daniel, have you been watching the latest Marvel movies

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Speaker 7: and TV shows? Mmm?

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Speaker 1: I hope you're not going to ask me about the

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Speaker 1: physics of it.

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Speaker 7: Oh. I wasn't gonna ask you about time travel in Loki,

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Speaker 7: but now you're not well here in your reaction, I

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Speaker 7: think I have to travel back in time now and

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Speaker 7: maybe think of another question.

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Speaker 1: See that's the problem. If you had done that, we'd

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Speaker 1: never be having this conversation.

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Speaker 7: Oh well, maybe it depends on which branch of the

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Speaker 7: timeline we're on.

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Speaker 1: No, my god, there are no branches to timelines. Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh.

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Speaker 7: Or maybe I did go back in time and this

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Speaker 7: is a better outcome than the one that I originally

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Speaker 7: pitched to you. This might be the best timeline where

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Speaker 7: that could be.

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Speaker 1: Then I'm disappointed in the multiverse.

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Speaker 7: Maybe you just don't know how much worse it could be.

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Speaker 1: If this is the best it gets, then it must

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Speaker 1: get pretty bad.

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Speaker 7: Sounds like you maybe need to switch to the DC universe. Hi.

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Speaker 7: I'm Jorge Made, cartoonist and the author of Oliver's Great

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Speaker 7: Big Universe.

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Speaker 8: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at

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Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I can mostly read science fiction without

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Speaker 1: being grumpy.

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Speaker 7: Mostly. What percentage would you say is your grumpiness level

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Speaker 7: when you're reading science fiction?

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Speaker 1: There is a spot on the wall across the bedroom

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Speaker 1: where the books usually land when I throw them in frustration.

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Speaker 7: I'll just say that there's a dent there, more like.

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Speaker 1: A mark, but yeah, there's a physical impression left.

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Speaker 7: Have you actually thrown a book? Oh many, Yes, No way, Wow,

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Speaker 7: that's a strong reaction.

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Speaker 1: It's just so disappointing when they set you up for something.

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Speaker 1: They have some interesting ideas, and then they can't even

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Speaker 1: be consistent, or they just write stuff that doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: It's just frustrating because it makes me think about what

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Speaker 1: it could have been.

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Speaker 7: Oh man, But you're not angry at the physics, because

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Speaker 7: I imagine the physics is all made up in science

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Speaker 7: fiction to some degree. You're more frustrated with the storytelling

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Speaker 7: or the logic of the story.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's all tied together, right, of course, the physics

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Speaker 1: is made up. It's science fiction. After all. They can

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Speaker 1: have fictional science, but it's still science. They got to

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Speaker 1: stick to it. If they're going to tell a story,

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Speaker 1: they got to follow the rules. Otherwise, if there are

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Speaker 1: no rules, it's hardly an interesting story.

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Speaker 7: Now, after you throw the book, do you go and

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Speaker 7: pick it up and finish it anyways? Or do you

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Speaker 7: leave it there on the pile?

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Speaker 1: It depends on what's on the top of the two

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Speaker 1: read pile.

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Speaker 7: I suppose you're not like a complete is like some people,

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Speaker 7: when they start a book, they have to finish it.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I don't finish most books.

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Speaker 7: Oh interesting. Have you ever thrown a podcast at the wall?

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Speaker 1: No, I've never thrown podcasts at the wall. I've just

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Speaker 1: paused them.

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Speaker 7: Although it does feel like this podcast is just us

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Speaker 7: throwing things on the wall to see what sticks.

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Speaker 1: No, this is us trying to explain physics to everybody

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Speaker 1: out there listening.

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Speaker 7: Well anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 7: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Where we do our best not too frustrat hit you

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Speaker 1: into throwing europhone or computer or car across the wall,

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Speaker 1: whatever device you're using to listen to us. We want

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Speaker 1: to take you on a tour of everything that we

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Speaker 1: understand in the universe and everything that we don't. We

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Speaker 1: want to explain to you our vision of how the

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Speaker 1: universe works, from the tiniest little itty bitty bits all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the biggest monster black holes. We

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Speaker 1: think the universe does make sense, can be made sense of,

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Speaker 1: and we want desperately to explain all of it to you.

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Speaker 7: That's right. The universe we live in is not science fiction.

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Speaker 7: It is science period, science reality, and so we all

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Speaker 7: have questions about how it works while we're here and

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Speaker 7: what happens when you throw a bunch of books at

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Speaker 7: a wall.

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Speaker 1: Science reality. I like how you just renamed the whole

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Speaker 1: nonfiction genre. It's a better name though.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, science reality. There you go. Well they have like

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Speaker 7: reality TV, why not have reality science?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't want to be lumped in with reality TV. Actually, hey,

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Speaker 1: the problem with nonfiction you're defining it by what it

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Speaker 1: isn't instead of what it is. Right.

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, nobody wants to be a non anything.

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Speaker 1: I don't not want to be that.

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Speaker 7: You don't want to be a non conformist. Science trail blazing,

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Speaker 7: that's your job, basically. How about reality trail blazing.

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Speaker 1: Exploring the dense underbrush of reality, hacking our way through

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Speaker 1: the jungles of truth.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that could be a nice show like on Netflix,

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Speaker 7: like Big Science, where you put a bunch of physicists

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Speaker 7: in one house with a large particle collider and you

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Speaker 7: see what happens every week they have to vote a

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Speaker 7: physicists off.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they have to vote a physicist into the collider.

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Speaker 7: Oh my goodness. That is both good and horrifying.

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Speaker 1: Probably good TV.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like squid games exactly, h squid

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Speaker 7: physics game, science game. Science games. Yeah, there you go,

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Speaker 7: particle games.

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Speaker 1: But science isn't just a game. It's a serious effort

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Speaker 1: to understand the universe, and that's what we try to

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Speaker 1: do in our jobs. We try to do on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: and we also encourage you to do because you can

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Speaker 1: also pick up a machete and help us hack through

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Speaker 1: the jungles of truth to understand the universe just by

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Speaker 1: thinking like a physicist, which means just being curious and

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Speaker 1: not settling for not understanding. There's too many knots there, huh.

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Speaker 1: I should define it in terms of positives demanding sufficient explanations.

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Speaker 1: And when you don't understand something about the universe, we

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Speaker 1: want you to write into us share your question, because

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Speaker 1: probably somebody else out there has the same thought.

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Speaker 7: I don't know if that was better. I'm a little

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Speaker 7: nonplussed about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty plussed.

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Speaker 7: Well, let's plus it. Let's plus it some more.

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Speaker 1: I might even be multiplied it. But I don't want

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Speaker 1: to divide us over it.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, science is a game, and it all starts

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Speaker 7: with questions. The whole journey of science starts with looking

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Speaker 7: at the world around us and wondering why is it

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Speaker 7: like that? How does it work? And what would happen

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Speaker 7: if I throw this at the wall.

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Speaker 1: So you can either throw that thing at the wall,

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Speaker 1: or you can just write to us with your question

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Speaker 1: and we'll do our best to answer it. We answer

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Speaker 1: every question and we get from listeners. Just write to

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Speaker 1: us to questions at Danielandjorge dot com. And some of

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Speaker 1: the questions we think other people might want to hear

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Speaker 1: the answers to, and so we select them to answer

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Speaker 1: on the podcast.

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Speaker 7: So today on the podcast, we'll be tackling listener questions

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Speaker 7: number fifty one. Oh boy, listener questions in that over

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Speaker 7: middle eight.

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Speaker 1: That's right, we're rounding up to one hundred.

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Speaker 7: Now it's fifty plus.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get senior citizen discounts pretty soon. We

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Speaker 1: start at three pm.

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Speaker 7: That's right. Yeah, yeah, the discounts. Oh man, Does that

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Speaker 7: mean we have to give shorter answers.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to offend our senior listeners by suggesting

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Speaker 1: that they can't comprehend long, complex answers.

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Speaker 7: No, I'm just saying, you know, your appetite goes down

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Speaker 7: as you age.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I say, smaller meals.

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Speaker 7: I don't know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: More top us maybe more top us.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, there you go, more variety, because let's face it,

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Speaker 7: the time is running out for those of us over fifty.

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Speaker 1: Unless you live near the vicinity of a black hole,

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Speaker 1: in which case time is slowing down for others but

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Speaker 1: not for you. Yeah, but relatively for you. You see

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Speaker 1: everybody else living really fast.

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Speaker 7: Well, let's try to get through these questions as fast

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Speaker 7: as we can then.

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Speaker 1: And the first one is actually about time.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, we have some awesome questions here today about

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Speaker 7: the speed of light near a black hole, about quantum entanglement,

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Speaker 7: and also about possible time travel. Pretty awesome questions from people, Daniel,

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Speaker 7: Do these questions make you smile when you get them?

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Speaker 1: All the questions make me smile. I love that ding

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Speaker 1: when I get a question in the listener inbox and

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Speaker 1: lets me take a break from whatever else I'm doing

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Speaker 1: and think about physics.

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Speaker 7: But way you were thinking about physics before, So your

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Speaker 7: break from physics is to think about physics.

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Speaker 1: Mostly I was thinking about spreadsheets and email every job,

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Speaker 1: spreadsheets in email.

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Speaker 7: And grants and grant proposals, budgets. Oh I see, So

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Speaker 7: then do you actually get to think about physics?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, what if your grant students send you a question

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Speaker 7: about physics? Is that the flatter or the former situation.

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Speaker 7: No comment depends on the student. Actually is it an

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Speaker 7: involve a spreadsheet or a budget question?

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Speaker 1: Depends Maybe their question is, hey, are you funding me

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Speaker 1: next quarter? Or their question is like, how do we

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Speaker 1: do anomally detection in this space of multiple tracks? You know?

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Speaker 1: Depends on and they're asking.

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Speaker 7: I see and one of those is good and the

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Speaker 7: other one is bad. Is that they're different. They're different different,

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Speaker 7: I see? Are all right? Well, we have some awesome

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Speaker 7: questions here to the answer. Let's just jump right in.

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Speaker 7: Our first question comes from Nathan from Seattle.

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Speaker 9: Hey, Daniel and Hora. My name is Nathan Ramon from Seattle, Washington,

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Speaker 9: and I have a question for y'all. I was watching

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Speaker 9: ant Man last night, and it occurred to me that

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Speaker 9: they are so small in that movie right, that the

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Speaker 9: speed of light might actually act a little bit differently.

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Speaker 9: They're so small at that point that if the universe

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Speaker 9: is still reacting, like, still has the speed of light

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Speaker 9: at the same rate, which it might not necessarily. They

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Speaker 9: do talk a lot about how they're outside of space and.

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Speaker 10: Time, but if it has that same speed limit, if

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Speaker 10: you're so much smaller, it would make it feel to

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Speaker 10: me like White was going way way faster. Sorry for

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Speaker 10: my ranblem. Let me know if you need clarification on that.

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Speaker 10: And thanks for all you guys. Do I love your podcast?

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Speaker 7: All right? Awesome question from Nathan, a Marvel fan. It

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Speaker 7: seems well he didn't say whether he liked those movies.

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Speaker 7: He just as he watched them and he had a

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Speaker 7: small opinion about at Man.

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Speaker 1: Well. The cool thing is he was watching him and

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Speaker 1: he was thinking about the physics of it, like, does

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Speaker 1: this make sense? How would this work? What would it

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Speaker 1: actually be like to be that small? Would the experience

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Speaker 1: of it be based on the physical principles of the universe?

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Speaker 7: Have we done an episode on the physics of the

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Speaker 7: Marvel movies? I feel like we talk about them all

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Speaker 7: the time, but have we done like a whole dedicated

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Speaker 7: episode to it.

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Speaker 1: M Is there any physics of the Marvel movies or

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Speaker 1: is it.

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Speaker 7: Always it's science fiction?

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Speaker 1: Daniel's for sure.

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Speaker 7: But the an Men movies are pretty good. The first

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Speaker 7: one was really good, the second one was maybe not

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Speaker 7: as good, and the therem one was not as good.

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Speaker 7: But overall it's sort of a charming character.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I saw the first one. I enjoyed it,

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Speaker 1: and the visit to the quantum realm. I thought was

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Speaker 1: visually very creative. I thought the way they displayed it

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Speaker 1: was very cool, very different from your standard depictions. So

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 7: Did I tell you I know the guy who came

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Speaker 7: up with the term the quantum realm?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, my friend Spiris mclaucus. He's a physicist and he

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Speaker 7: consulted for Marvel and one day he was giving them

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Speaker 7: a little spiel in the conference room and he's like,

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Speaker 7: things are very different in the quantum realm. And they're like,

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Speaker 7: we like that. That's in the script.

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Speaker 1: Oh, quantum real Yeah.

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Speaker 7: He kind of has mixed feelings about what they've done

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Speaker 7: with the term and the whole idea of quantum physics,

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Speaker 7: but it's pretty cool that he had that contribution.

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Speaker 1: The lesson is be careful what you say around writers.

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Speaker 7: That's right. Yes, we cannot be trusted with the innermost

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Speaker 7: secrets or emotions or physics. But yeah, Nathan has an

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Speaker 7: interesting question. His question is does the speed of light

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Speaker 7: seem faster if you're smaller? So, if you were small,

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Speaker 7: I guess at the level of ant man, does it

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Speaker 7: mean that you see light move faster for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think this is a really interesting question because

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Speaker 1: it makes us think about the speed of light and

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Speaker 1: the impact on physics sort of the big and the small,

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Speaker 1: and the way that I think about the speed of light,

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Speaker 1: and I think the way most physicists do, is that

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Speaker 1: it's like a ratio between space and time. It's like

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Speaker 1: a conversion between meters and seconds. Like meters is a

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Speaker 1: measurement of distance, seconds is the measurement of time. And

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Speaker 1: the fact that the universe has this number, this maximum

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Speaker 1: speed tells you a relationship between space and time. It

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Speaker 1: tells you how to convert a huge distance into a time,

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Speaker 1: and we're often doing that. Like the phrase a light

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Speaker 1: year tells you how far light will go in a year.

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Speaker 1: It sounds kind of like a unit of time, but

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Speaker 1: it's actually distance. You've taken time, you're multiplied by the

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Speaker 1: speed of light, and you've gotten a distance.

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Speaker 7: It's like a measurement that you get by the distance

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Speaker 7: divided by time. But does it really tie those two

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Speaker 7: concepts together, like at a fundamental you know, physics level,

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Speaker 7: because like you know, you can talk about the speed

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Speaker 7: of whorehet down the track that like my speed is

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Speaker 7: a speed that you can measure and compute, but it

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Speaker 7: doesn't really tell you anything except how out of shape

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Speaker 7: I am.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, the speed of foretete probably changes as a

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Speaker 1: function of time in the universe. And how much chocolate

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Speaker 1: do you have?

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Speaker 7: Yeah? How many bananas of eaten?

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Speaker 1: But the speed of light really does play a deep

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Speaker 1: role in physics, and it really serves that purpose of

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Speaker 1: converting between space and time. You know, we often talk

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Speaker 1: about like space time being a four dimensional object, with

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Speaker 1: the original three dimensions of space and this fourth dimension

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Speaker 1: of time. But there's a subtle thing there we don't

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Speaker 1: often talk about, which is that when we include times

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Speaker 1: fourth dimension, we usually multiply it by the speed of light.

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Speaker 1: So the four dimensions are actually like x, y, z

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Speaker 1: and then ct, not just time because we want to

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Speaker 1: convert it to effectively a distance.

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Speaker 7: Right, Well, you do have to keep the units consistent.

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Speaker 7: But like for example, if we had a different speed

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Speaker 7: of light in our universe, you know, things would be different.

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Speaker 7: The physics of the universe would be different. But with

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Speaker 7: space itself and would time itself be different.

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Speaker 1: They would be the same, but their relationship would be different.

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Speaker 1: That's what the speed of light is. It's a ratio

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Speaker 1: a relationship between these two different kinds of measurements. Yeah, fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: it really is telling you how these two things relate.

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Speaker 7: H all right, Well, to answer Nathan's questions, Let's say

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Speaker 7: I shrink down. Let's say I'm ad Man or the

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Speaker 7: Wasp and I shrink down. Is the speed of lighting?

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Speaker 7: It seemed faster for me? Like, if I measure the

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Speaker 7: speed of light at that scale, isn't going to seem faster?

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Speaker 7: Or like if I shine a flashlight, will somehow the

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Speaker 7: flashlight seem quicker or brighter or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the speed of light is going to be the

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Speaker 1: same because it's the same ratio between distances and times. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you measure the speed of light using a tiny

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Speaker 1: little experiment or a huge experiment, you're going to get

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Speaker 1: the same answer. But if you think of the speed

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Speaker 1: of light as a ratio between distance and time, what

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Speaker 1: it means is that everything seems faster when you're small.

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Speaker 1: Like basically, shorter distances mean shorter times. Things that are

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Speaker 1: smaller can happen faster than things that are bigger.

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Speaker 7: So like, for example, if you not just shrink me,

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Speaker 7: but I use shrink the whole earth, then for example,

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Speaker 7: light can go around the Earth many more times per second.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Or if let's say you build a machine

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Speaker 1: like a computer or even a mechanical device to do something,

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Speaker 1: if it's smaller, it can finish faster than if it's huge.

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Speaker 1: The bigger it is, the longer it will take to finish,

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Speaker 1: because there's this maximum speed limit. And that's why, like

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Speaker 1: the speed of light seems really really fast to us

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Speaker 1: here on Earth, is this crazy high number. It's basically

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Speaker 1: irrelevant to our experience. It's because things that are almost instantaneous.

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Speaker 1: But imagine if you are a brain made of like stars,

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Speaker 1: you're like a galaxy sized brain, it would take like

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand years to even have a thought.

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Speaker 7: But then your thinking would be slower, so your cognition

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Speaker 7: or your perception of time would be slower. So I

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Speaker 7: think maybe Nathan's question I wonder is whether time will

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Speaker 7: seem to be going faster or maybe it will seem

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Speaker 7: to be the same, right, because like, if I'm the

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Speaker 7: size of a galaxy, my thoughts are going to be

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Speaker 7: super slow. And so even though any effect I'm in

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Speaker 7: the city is going to be super slow because with

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Speaker 7: the distances, my thoughts are going to be slow, and

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Speaker 7: so therefore the experience of being that person is going

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Speaker 7: to be the same as our experience here on Earth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a few things there to disentangle,

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Speaker 1: but basically you're right. Number one, if you measure the

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Speaker 1: speed of light, you're going to get the same number.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're a galaxy brain or an

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Speaker 1: ant brain, right, as long as you do it correctly,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get the same number. Number two, things

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Speaker 1: do seem to happen faster when you're smaller because you're

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Speaker 1: just not as limited by this speed of light. Things

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Speaker 1: have shorter distances to cross in order to accomplish some

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Speaker 1: thinking or some task or whatever. Number Three. Finally, we

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Speaker 1: don't really know what it would be like to experience

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Speaker 1: that what it seemed like time goes faster. We don't

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Speaker 1: understand our experience of time or why we seem to

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Speaker 1: experience it at you know, one second per second. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it would be like to be

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Speaker 1: a galaxy brain. They might have the same kind of

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Speaker 1: subjective experience we do.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Or like thinking about the shrinking case, like if

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Speaker 7: I shrink down to enman size, now my brain is smaller,

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Speaker 7: Like the distances between my neurons are smaller, and so

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Speaker 7: maybe my thinking will be sort of like hypercharge. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: like I'll have a million of thoughts in the same

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Speaker 7: amount of time that it used to take me to

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Speaker 7: have one thought, and so I'll be sort of super

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Speaker 7: bored looking at the bigger world, but looking at the

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Speaker 7: small world, maybe it'll just seem like the same regular

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Speaker 7: because things are moving faster. But I'm also like having

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Speaker 7: a bazillion more cycles in my brain than I did before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So we don't know what the experience would

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Speaker 1: be like. This is an interesting wrinkle of evolutionary biology.

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Speaker 1: There also which is wondering, like could humans be smarter?

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Speaker 1: You can imagine being smarter by having like a bigger

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Speaker 1: brain in more neurons, but then it's harder to get

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Speaker 1: that brain through the birth canal. You could also imagine

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Speaker 1: getting smarter by having more neurons by making the neurons smaller.

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Speaker 1: But I was reading a paper that said that if

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Speaker 1: neurons got any smaller, they would be noisier, like more

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Speaker 1: randomness and fuzz so it might not actually add computing power.

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Speaker 1: So he might be at like the sweet spot of

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Speaker 1: like the densest neuronal systems.

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Speaker 7: Well, the other thing to consider is that neurons work

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Speaker 7: by bioelectricity, right, biochemistry, not necessarily by like transmitting electrons.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 7: It all depends on sort of reactions and electric fields

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Speaker 7: and like molecules moving in and out of the little

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Speaker 7: cell walls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, if you could actually shrink all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: it would happen faster. Of course, you know, the physics

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Speaker 1: wouldn't work if you shrink all that stuff because all

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Speaker 1: the numbers would change. So the fundamental physics of ant

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Speaker 1: Man is silly because you know, if he's shrunk down

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Speaker 1: to the size of an electron, then how big are

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Speaker 1: his electrons?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 7: Right, So basically we get into the fuzzy area of

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Speaker 7: like perception and the subjective experience. But generally speaking, I

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Speaker 7: think from a physics point of view, if you were

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Speaker 7: down to the size of ant Man, the light would

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Speaker 7: sort of seem to travel faster, right, Like, it would

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Speaker 7: go one body length in a much shorter amount of

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Speaker 7: time than it would go at our size.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, your body would be shorter, so light would go

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Speaker 1: across you faster, and I think a lot of things

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Speaker 1: would happen faster I don't know how we can say

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Speaker 1: what it would be like though, to experience it.

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Speaker 7: I wonder if it would be even that different, Like

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Speaker 7: what's the difference between almost interustaneous and almost almost insantaneous?

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Speaker 7: Maybe the difference is not that great, or maybe he's

443
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 7: thinking about it, like when admin goes down to like

444
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 7: the quantum size.

445
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as you say, distances are already so small

446
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 1: compared to the speed of light, then our experience is

447
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: very difficult to even tell that it's not instantaneous. It

448
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: took people a long time to be able to devise

449
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: experiments to measure the speed of light. That to be

450
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: very very clever, because it's so blazingly fast compared to

451
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: the distances in which we live. If you really galaxy

452
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 1: brain and then you got shrunk down to ant man,

453
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 1: that might be more dramatic.

454
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, Or I wonder maybe the equivalent conversion is like,

455
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 7: let's say you and I are living in our everyday

456
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 7: lives here, but suddenly the speed of light goes up

457
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 7: by a factor of ten. Let's say it was now

458
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 7: three million kilometers per second. Would we even notice a difference.

459
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: We wouldn't notice the difference here on Earth, but suddenly,

460
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: the rest of the universe would effectively be closer to us.

461
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: You know, we could see things happening faster, We could

462
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: get places faster. The size of a galaxy would effectively

463
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: seem smaller.

464
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 7: Well, seem smaller. No, it'll still be the same distance.

465
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 7: We would just see it sooner.

466
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, like our information bubble would be larger. The distance

467
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: over which things appear to happen instantaneously would be bigger.

468
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 7: Right, we can maybe see further out or or I

469
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 7: guess what we see would be more up to date, Yeah.

470
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: More recent exactly. The time lag would no longer be

471
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 1: noticeable for things that are close to us. Is to

472
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: look even further out to notice that time lag.

473
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 7: Well, I feel like they're not even noticeable now, Like

474
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 7: like I can tell the difference between a billion year

475
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 7: old star and a million.

476
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 1: Year old star, astronomers can all.

477
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 7: Right, well, I think that answer is a question, which

478
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 7: is that the speed of light would not be different,

479
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 7: but maybe your experience of it would be different. All right, Well,

480
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 7: thanks for that question, Nathan. Let's get to our other questions.

481
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 7: We have one here about quantum entanglement and time travel,

482
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 7: so we'll get to those, But first let's take a

483
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 7: quick break.

484
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541
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552
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 7: All right, we're answering listener questions here today, and our

553
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 7: next question is about quantum entanglement.

554
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 11: How did Daniel question for you? Assume we know particle

555
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 11: A and particle B are entangled, and for simplicity's sake,

556
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 11: let's say the states are positive or negative, and there's

557
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 11: a fifty to fifty chance. Now, what would happen if

558
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 11: two independent observers we can call them A and B

559
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 11: for their respective particles, observed these two particles at the

560
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 11: exact same time. This question really breaks my brain. The

561
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 11: more I think about it, the less I feel like

562
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 11: I understand special relativity and the less I feel like

563
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 11: I understand quantum mechanics. And adding to their question, is

564
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 11: it even possible to make two observations with two observers

565
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 11: at the same time. I really appreciate it. Thanks for

566
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 11: helping me understand.

567
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 7: All right, Well, that's quite a mindful of a question here,

568
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 7: And Daniel, I noticed he asked a question of you,

569
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 7: not me, So I think I can just sit this

570
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 7: one out because honestly, I don't understand the question. I'm

571
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 7: being entangled into whole flurry of words.

572
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: You felt like some of the other physics questions were

573
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: aimed towards you.

574
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 7: Last one, did say Daniel and Jorge, I think I

575
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 7: was one of the targets. And sometimes they say hey,

576
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 7: guys plural, so it does mean the two of us.

577
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: Well, I think he's also counting on you to help

578
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: me translate my understanding into something.

579
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 7: Ever, no, no, no, I feel snubbed, So I'm not

580
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 7: even gonna chime in.

581
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my best, but I'm pretty sure you're

582
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: going to have a hard time not interrupting.

583
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 7: What are you trying to say? What are you trying

584
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 7: to say?

585
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: Job? And you do it beautifully, matn.

586
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 7: Why are you trying to say, Daniel, did I interrupt you?

587
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: Yes?

588
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 7: Exactly, all right, So what is the question? I know

589
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 7: it's about quantum entanglement, but it didn't quite get the

590
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 7: gist of it.

591
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the question is about quantum entanglement and special

592
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: relativity and how these two things come together. But let's

593
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: start just with the basic issue of quantum entanglement, which

594
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: is weird enough, right. Quantum entanglement says what happens if

595
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: you have two particles that are like the output of

596
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: a single process. Something makes two particles, and so their

597
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: fate is connected. Like let's say you have two electrons created,

598
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: and one has to be spin up and one has

599
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: to be spinned down because of the way they're made.

600
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: The universe doesn't care which one is spin up and

601
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: which one is spin down as long as they point opposite. Now,

602
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: if you take those two particles and you send them

603
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: different directions, they're now far apart. Quantum entanglement says that

604
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: they're still somehow connected, that their fates are joined. And

605
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: so if you measure one to be spin up, you

606
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: now know the other one is spinned down. But it's

607
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: more than just like no knowing that they have to

608
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: be opposite. Quantum entanglement tells us that they're actually not determined,

609
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: that neither one is spin up or spin down. They

610
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: both have that possibility, and that as soon as you

611
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: measure one, then the fate of the other one is determined.

612
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: That's a weird bit about quantum entanglement.

613
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 7: Oh wait to jump in now you're going to interrupt. Yeah,

614
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 7: So that's the basic of entanglement, right, Like you have

615
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 7: two quantum things, like a particle or an atom or

616
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 7: some sort of quantum object, and it's fuzzy, you don't

617
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 7: know what it actually is inside. But if two of

618
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 7: them have some sort of shared history, some sort of

619
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 7: shared origin that ties them together, that's what quantum intalgent

620
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 7: Guildman is.

621
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: That's right, there's some correlation between them that's created locally

622
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: when they're like both made and sent apart. But then

623
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: the correlation persists as they get further and further apart.

624
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: And again, this is not a scenario where one of

625
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: them actually is spin up and the other one actually

626
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: is spin down and we just don't know. We've proven

627
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: through a whole complicated series of experiments suggest John Bell

628
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: that they actually are undetermined until you measure. So the

629
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: weird bit and the thing that makes it hard to

630
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: reconcile with special relativity is that apparently this happens instantaneously.

631
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: You have these two particles that have a shared fate,

632
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: but they're both undetermined. Now you send them like five

633
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: kilometers apart, you measure one of them, you get to

634
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: spin up instantly. The other one has to be spinned down.

635
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: It went from I don't know, maybe up or down

636
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: to has to be down instantaneously across space.

637
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 7: And time, right, which that first glance seems to violate

638
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 7: the speed of light, right because something changed in one

639
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 7: part of the universe and then it suddenly costs something

640
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 7: else to change in another part seemingly instantaneously.

641
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: Exactly what you said is important. You said it violates

642
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: a speed of light, and that's correct. This is something

643
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: that happens faster than the speed of light. Speed of

644
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: light says is a limit to how fast things can

645
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: happen across the universe. This is instantaneous, but doesn't actually

646
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: break special relativity because you're not sending information faster than

647
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: the speed of light. Like the quantum state is non

648
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: local it stretches over space and collapses instantaneously the whole

649
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: thing at the same time. But you can't actually use

650
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: that to send information. People are often writing in and saying, well,

651
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: can't I send information by making a measurement and the

652
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: other person's going to see that theirs is now collapsed.

653
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: You can't actually tell when your probabilities have collapsed. All

654
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: you can do is measure or not measure. When you

655
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: measure your particle, you don't know if it was already

656
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: collapsed or if you're collapsing it by measuring it.

657
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 7: Right. Also, when you collapse one of them, it's not

658
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 7: like you're sending that information to the other person. Like

659
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 7: let's say we entangle to particles. I have one, and

660
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 7: when we split up part I have one, you have one.

661
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 7: If I open mind, I measure it and I see

662
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 7: it that for example, it's up, and I know that

663
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 7: yours is down. Like I know something about your particle,

664
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 7: But that doesn't mean you know that about your particle.

665
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 7: Like to you over there in Irvine, your particle is

666
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 7: still this quantum object that could be fifty percent up

667
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 7: or down. So like, no information is actually traveled unless

668
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 7: I sent you an email which would then be limited

669
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 7: by the speed of light exactly, and or my sale

670
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 7: signal exactly.

671
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: And if I still have my particle in the box

672
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: you measure yours, I can't tell if you've measured yours,

673
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: Like mine doesn't look any different if I'm not measuring it.

674
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting to measure it. I don't know if

675
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: you've measured yours or not. I can't tell that you

676
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: have measured it.

677
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 7: So it's like information about something far away has been

678
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 7: revealed to me instantaneously, But that doesn't mean that information

679
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 7: actually got transmitted from one place to the other.

680
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

681
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 7: So then what's the actual question here?

682
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: So the question is what happens we measure them at

683
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: the same time. Who collapses the wave function? Mmmm?

684
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 7: So we each have a particle that's been entangled the

685
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 7: other and we open it at the same time. Nothing happens, right, Well,

686
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 7: this is a really interesting question, Like you'll find that

687
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 7: you'll find yours up and I'll find my down, or

688
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 7: I'll find mine up and you'll find yours. Now that's

689
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 7: all that really happens, isn't it.

690
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love your answer, and you're right from the

691
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: point of view of like what we experience. You open

692
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: your box, you measure it up or you measure it down.

693
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: But I think what he's asking is like, what's happening

694
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: behind the scenes? You know, what is the wave function doing?

695
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: Even if we can't observe it and can't measure it

696
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: and can't ever know what in theory is the explanation

697
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: for how this happens. And I think it's touching on

698
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: a deeper question, which is about simultaneity. We talked to

699
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: the podcast how special relativity tells us that at the

700
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: same time is a fuzzy concept. Two events could occur

701
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: at the same time for one person, but not for

702
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: somebody else if they have a different velocity or different

703
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: location in space. And so this seems very fuzzy all

704
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like two people measure the wave function

705
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: at the same time, what happens to that wave function?

706
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: And what happens according to somebody flying by in a

707
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: spaceship at nearly the speed of light?

708
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 7: So then what's the answer for our question, asker?

709
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: So the best answer to the one you just gave,

710
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: which is this is not a physical problem.

711
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 7: This is only I answered the question even though he

712
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 7: didn't ask me. I'm the one who ended up assering.

713
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: You answered it in the classical dismissive way, which is like,

714
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's just a philosophy question about what's

715
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: happening to the wave function.

716
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 7: It's not a dismiss it. I mean, I always being pejorative, maybe,

717
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 7: but it's.

718
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: True though it's an important distinction, like we know what

719
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: would happen. I measure mine, you measure yours done, it

720
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, right, But the question is what's happening

721
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, which is a philosophical question about something

722
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: we may never be able to know, like what is

723
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: the wave function really? And there's whole philosophical debates about

724
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: whether the wave function is just a mathematical tool we

725
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: use to make these calculations, or if it's a real

726
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: physical thing in the universe. And so there's long answer

727
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: is it depends on what you think the wave function is.

728
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: It depends on your philosophical interpretation of quantum mechanics. And

729
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: we can walk through a few of those examples.

730
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 7: Like is there a wave function that physically connects my

731
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 7: particle to your particle? Or is the wave function just

732
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 7: some mathematical tool we used to explain things When things

733
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 7: are not far apart. Yeah, and then when you split them,

734
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 7: maybe actually you get two ways functions. Or maybe there

735
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 7: is no such thing as a physical common wave function.

736
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Or maybe there are many wave functions, or maybe the

737
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: wave function never collapses. Now in the standard interpretation of

738
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, which I'll say up front is nonsense, the

739
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: Copenhagen interpretation, which doesn't work and is deeply flawed, but

740
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: it's still the one most people think about and is

741
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: most often taught. In that interpretation, the wave function is

742
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: a thing, and it's real, and before you measure something,

743
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: it allows for multiple possibilities, like the wave function says

744
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: you might be up and you might be down. And

745
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: then when you make a measurement with a classical object

746
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: where classical object is not defined just something big, then

747
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: it collapses and it chooses one of these options. And

748
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: I think it's in that scenario that the question is asking,

749
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: like number one, what happens if two people make the

750
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: measurement at the same time, who collapses it? And then

751
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: what happens to an observer flying by the speed of light?

752
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: The answer is sort of nonsense. Like number one, if

753
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: two people make their measurement at the same time. Well,

754
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: you can't do that in Copenhagen interpretation because you can

755
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: only make one measurement on a way function at a time.

756
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: It's just not allowed because making a measurement changes the

757
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: wave function, and you have to do them in sequence.

758
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: That's why it's like important whether you're measuring position or

759
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: momentum first, or momentum and then position, because every measurement

760
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: change is a wave function. There's no way to even

761
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 1: describe making two measurements at the same time.

762
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 7: I see, well, if there is sort of like a

763
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 7: physical wave function connecting my particle to your particle, then

764
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 7: you do sort of get the sense of that there

765
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 7: is a shared now.

766
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: But even though it's quantum mechanical, unless you're going to

767
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: pixelate time, time itself is infinitely divisible. So saying you're

768
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: making two measurements at the same time would mean you're

769
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: like exactly matching those two moments.

770
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 7: Meaning like maybe there's no way to know who collapsed

771
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 7: it first unless we somehow sink clocks or something beforehand

772
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 7: and then we compare clocks afterwards.

773
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: But you'd have to sink them exactly perfectly to like

774
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: an infinite number of digits, which seems impossible, right, And

775
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: it gets even weirder if you ask, like what happens

776
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: according to other observers, Like what if I make my

777
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: measurement and then ten seconds later you make your measurement,

778
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: And now, in our frame of reference, I was first

779
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: and you were second, But somebody flying by at the

780
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 1: speed of light, they could see your measurement happen first

781
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: before mine, because the order events is not guaranteed in

782
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: special relativity depends on the observer.

783
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 7: Interesting, So I think what you're saying is that in

784
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 7: the quantum realm, at man would not know what time

785
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 7: it is.

786
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying that this picture of the wave function collapsing

787
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: and happening instantly across space in time, that picture itself

788
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: doesn't really work in the Copenhagen interpretation. You know, imagine

789
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: a more complex situation, for example, like an observer flying

790
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: by and then changing directions and going the other way.

791
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: As they change directions, their concept of what happens first

792
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: what happens second changes, So you could arrange a trajectory

793
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: where they're seeing me make my measurement first, and then

794
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: later they see you make your measurement first, because their

795
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: velocity is changing and In that scenario, the wave function

796
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: collapses in one way and then uncollapses and recollapses in

797
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: a different way. So like the whole picture becomes very

798
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: confusing and it's kind of nonsensical, but it doesn't change

799
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: anything physical. This is just philosophical, and there are other

800
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: philosophical approaches to quantum mechanics that don't have these issues

801
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: that the Copenhagen interpretation has. And Copenhagen is already known

802
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: to be nonsense because this division between like what is

803
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: quantum and what is classical is not even defined or described.

804
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 7: Well, it seems like kind of the main problem is

805
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 7: that you're basically trying to put together general relativity and

806
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 7: quantum mechanics, which, as we've talked about a million times

807
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 7: in this podcast, like they don't really play well with

808
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 7: each other, right, Like, quantum mechanics is kind of a

809
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 7: local effect and general relativity things that happen over maybe

810
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 7: big distances or big amounts of time, and it involves

811
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 7: curvatures time and space, and so we don't really know

812
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 7: how to marry those two.

813
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure we're getting into general relativity here. Really,

814
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: all these questions are about special relativity, and we do

815
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: know how to marry special relativity and quantum mechanics into

816
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: a theory. We have relativistic quantum mechanics and we have

817
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: quantum field theories, and those make predictions about all the measurements,

818
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: and those all work. The philosophical underpinnings of what happens

819
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: when you try to bring these two together is more complicated,

820
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: and there people have a lot of disagreements about what's

821
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes.

822
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 7: Well, I think maybe the basic conclusion is that I

823
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 7: answered this question and even though I wasn't asked.

824
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: Ten points for you.

825
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 7: All right, Well, let's get to our last question, which

826
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 7: is about time travel, and the question people should think

827
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 7: about during this break is do we already answer this

828
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 7: question or are we going to answer it in the future.

829
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: Or have we already answered it in the future?

830
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, Or have we already asked this question about answering

831
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 7: the question in the past?

832
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: Have we already made every possible time travel show.

833
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 7: Let's go back in time and make some more, But first,

834
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 7: let's take a quick break.

835
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

836
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

837
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

838
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are US Dairy

839
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

840
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty That's why they're working

841
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

842
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

843
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four times.

844
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: The same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn,

845
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy tackling greenhouse gases.

846
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from

847
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and

848
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice

849
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that

850
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: dairy farmers and processors around the country are using the

851
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense dairy

852
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: products we love with less of an impact. Visit usdairy

853
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

854
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

855
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: roads every day. Remember They're real people with loved ones

856
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 2: who need them to get home safely. Protect our cyclists

857
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely. California. From

858
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

859
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 3: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four iHeart

860
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 3: Radio Music Festival, presented by Capitol On.

861
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,359
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862
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,600
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863
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864
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865
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,239
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866
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867
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869
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,200
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870
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Speaker 7: Guess what, Mango? What's that?

871
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 12: Well, so iHeart is giving us a whole minute to

872
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 12: promote our podcast, part time genius.

873
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 5: I know.

874
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 12: That's why I spent my whole week composing a haikup

875
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,840
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876
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,120
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877
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 7: I'm going to cut you off right there.

878
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: Why don't we just tell people.

879
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 7: About our show instead? Yeah, that's a better idea.

880
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 12: So every week on Part Time Genius we feed our

881
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 12: curiosity by answering the world's most important questions, things like

882
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 12: when did America start dialing nine one?

883
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 8: One?

884
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 12: Is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto? Also what

885
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 12: happened to Esperanto? Plus we cover questions like how Chinese

886
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 12: is your Chinese food? How do dollar stores stay in business?

887
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 12: And of course is there an illuminati of cheese? There

888
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 12: absolutely is, and we are risking our lives by talking

889
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 12: about it. But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible

890
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 12: history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and

891
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 12: tune into Part Time Genius. Listen to Part Time Genius

892
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 12: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

893
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 7: Or right We're answering you listening to questions here today,

894
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 7: and our last question of the day is about the past,

895
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 7: the present, the future and whether we can move between them.

896
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 7: Hey guys, this is Trevor.

897
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 13: I was recently listening to an episode of the podcast

898
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 13: in which Daniel mentions that we have never observed anything

899
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 13: that was moving backwards in time. My question is, how

900
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 13: would we be able to identify whether an object we're

901
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 13: observing was moving backwards in time? What characteristics would make

902
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 13: backwards motion in time distinguishable to us? Are we sure

903
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 13: we would even be able to observe a reverse time

904
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 13: object while we are moving forward in time. I love

905
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 13: what you guys do, and I sincerely appreciate you taking

906
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 13: my question.

907
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 7: Interesting question. I feel like this question relates to the

908
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 7: movie Tenet. Have you seen that movie?

909
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: I've seen that movie, and I saw that. Christopher Nolan

910
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: was like, people who try to understand Tenant are not

911
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: really getting what I was after, Like, it just doesn't

912
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: make sense.

913
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 7: He's like, why are people throwing my movie at the wall?

914
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 7: It's signs fiction people.

915
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: It's not supposed to make sense, he says, as he

916
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: presents and asks you to solve it.

917
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 7: Like what, Yeah, It's all about the experience of the mystery, right.

918
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm not being a physicist. I'm just like experiencing the universe. Man,

919
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to figure it all together in my

920
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: head in the way that makes sense.

921
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, maybe your wall would be intact if he

922
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 7: took that attitude more. But yeah, in the movie Tenet,

923
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 7: they sort of figure out how to make something move

924
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 7: backwards in time, Like they can make a bullet move

925
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 7: backwards in time, and so even though we're moving forwards

926
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 7: in time, the bullet is moving backwards in time. And

927
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 7: at some point they make people move backwards in time, right,

928
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 7: I don't know.

929
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: I went back in time and eras that movie from them.

930
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 7: I think that's the basic question that Trevor has here,

931
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 7: which is like, could something move backwards in time? And

932
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 7: what we know it's moving backwards in time.

933
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really cool question with a lot of

934
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: interesting subtlety, depending exactly what you mean by move backwards

935
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: in time, because there's a fundamental question we have about time,

936
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: which is like why does it flow forward? If you

937
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: look at the equations of physics, they seem to work

938
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: just as well forwards and backwards. You know, for most things.

939
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: If you took a video of them, and then you

940
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: play the video forwards and you play the video backwards,

941
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: the laws of physics would work just as well for

942
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: both scenarios. Like you're playing pool and you hit a

943
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: ball and they bounce off each other. You could play

944
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: that whole reaction backwards and the same thing would work

945
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: according to the laws of momentum and all that kind

946
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: of stuff.

947
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 7: In like a perfect world, in a perfect bouncy ball

948
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 7: that doesn't lose energy each time it bounces, like a

949
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 7: bouncing ball moving forwards in time looked exactly like a

950
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 7: bouncing ball moving backwards sometimes.

951
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we could start with the individual particles, so

952
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: we're not thinking about like ten to the twenty nine

953
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: objects and thermodynamics. Yet for like the individual particles, these

954
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: rules work just as well forwards and backwards in time.

955
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 7: Meaning like, give you records and particles having some interactions,

956
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 7: and you play it backwards. That's also a perfectly feasible

957
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 7: thing for the particles to do, or what you observe

958
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 7: I'm doing is also perfectly feasible.

959
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,479
Speaker 1: Yes, ninety nine point ninety nine percent. There's a little

960
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: asterisk there about how some particle interactions do prefer one

961
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: direction in time, but it's a really really tiny effect.

962
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 7: So then what are you saying. Are you're saying like

963
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 7: we are technically all moving backwards and forwards in time

964
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 7: or there's no meaning to something moving backwards in time?

965
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: I think that implies something really interesting about the universe,

966
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: about causality. It implies that, of course the past determines

967
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: the future, right things flow, the laws of physics determine things,

968
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: but also that the future is unique because the future

969
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: is determined by the past. But you could also flip

970
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: it the other way around. You could say the future

971
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 1: determines the past, right, Like if there's only one possible

972
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: future for every past, and you can go from the

973
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: future and predict the past, if they're you know, connected

974
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: by the laws of physics in the same way, then

975
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: like what direction is causality anyway? And so that's what

976
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: we mean when we say, like which direction does time flow?

977
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: The laws of physics don't care. They're sort of like

978
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: time independent.

979
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 7: Right, Well, you're sort of getting into the idea of

980
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 7: determinism and whether things move in a predictable way, But

981
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 7: doesn't quantum mechanics sort of do away with that? Like,

982
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 7: you know, I can't really predict the future because what

983
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 7: absurdain particle is going to do is sort of random

984
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 7: according to quantum physics, And if I have an outcome

985
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 7: of a particle, I can't really trace back its history

986
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 7: because there was a random process somewhere in the middle.

987
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question, and there's a couple of directions there. Now,

988
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: if you only have quantum interactions, then what you said

989
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: is not technically correct because quantum information is preserved and

990
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: you can go forwards and backwards, like if there's no

991
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: wave function collapse, then the future is completely predicted by

992
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: the past, and you can derive the past from the future.

993
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: You know. Quantum information just flows through time like particles

994
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: interact with each other. There may be randomness, but if

995
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: there's no wave function collapse, so you don't force the

996
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: universe to choose from those probability distributions, then all that

997
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: information is preserved. So wave function collapse does break that

998
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: deep rule of quantum mechanics, which is another reason why

999
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: wave function collapse is kind of nonsense from a philosophical

1000
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: and a physics point of view and not something we understand.

1001
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 7: Wait wait, we're having your crossover here with another question.

1002
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 7: The other question.

1003
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: Connected man in the quantum realm, there is a larger

1004
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: sense in which we think quantum mechanics does yield a

1005
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: definition of time because the randomness of quantum mechanics does

1006
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: affect like multiple particles. And we talked about an individual

1007
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: particle and what happens to it. Now imagine like ten

1008
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: to the thirty particles. Instead of tracing each of them individually,

1009
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: you're thinking about the population of those particles. What are

1010
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: they more likely to do or less likely to do?

1011
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: And because they're governed by randomness.

1012
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 7: Let's stick to maybe one particle. Like the classic example

1013
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 7: of a of a quantum particle is like, if I

1014
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 7: shoot an electron at a magnetic electric field, is it

1015
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 7: going to veer to the right or is it going

1016
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 7: to veer to the left. Now, in the past, I

1017
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 7: don't know whether it's going to be veering to the

1018
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 7: right or to the left. But then I shoot it

1019
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 7: at the electric field and the particle goes right or left.

1020
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 7: Now I'm in the future, and the particle went right.

1021
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: Because you collapse the wave function by insisting on measuring

1022
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: it with a classical object. Let's change your experiment a

1023
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: little bit. Let's say you shoot the electronics the magnetic field,

1024
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: but you don't measure which direction it went with some

1025
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: big classical thing like a detector or an eyeball or

1026
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: a graduate student. You record whether it went left or

1027
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: right into some other quantum object, you know, another particle

1028
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 1: or photon or something.

1029
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 7: But I reject your scenario, Daniel. I reject your scenario,

1030
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 7: and I want to stick to my scenario in my scenario,

1031
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 7: there's a future which is the wind right that I

1032
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 7: couldn't know in the past.

1033
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1034
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 7: And if I'm in the future and I saw that

1035
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 7: the particle went right, I can still sort of figure

1036
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 7: out where the particle came from. So it just sort

1037
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 7: of seems like there is direction to time. In the past,

1038
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 7: I couldn't tell the future, but in the future I

1039
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 7: could tell the past.

1040
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 1: Yes, if there's wave function collapse.

1041
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 7: Which there was in this scenario.

1042
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: Which violates a basic principle quantum mechanics loss of information,

1043
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: then yes, the future is different from the past because

1044
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: the collapse makes the future different. If you don't believe

1045
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: in collapse because it's fundamentally nonsense, then your whole premise,

1046
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: then the whole setup is flawed.

1047
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 7: But I have to believe in collapse because I live

1048
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 7: in a collapse world. Like when I'm talking to you,

1049
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 7: I'm collapsing things. You don't know that man grab my

1050
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 7: steering wheel. My experience. Maybe there's a multiverse little bit

1051
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 7: somebody else does something else, but to me, in this

1052
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 7: multiverse version, there's collapse. It's a real thing. And so

1053
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 7: is there a direction of time in my universe?

1054
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: Well, if there's a multiverse. Then the wave function doesn't collapse.

1055
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: It splits into many pieces. They're all part of the

1056
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: same big universe wave function, but they can't interact with

1057
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: each other, and that preserves the flow of information. All

1058
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: those things do happen, they're just sort of like happening

1059
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: on top of each other in a way that they

1060
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: can't interact with each other. It's the quantum multiverse. So

1061
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: there is a scenario in which there is no collapse

1062
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: and quantum information is not changed as time goes on.

1063
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 7: Sure, if you're like a mega entity, then you can

1064
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 7: see all the multiverse at the same time. But to me,

1065
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 7: to us right now talking to each other, we live

1066
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 7: in a collapse universe. This is our universe, and we

1067
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 7: don't even know if there are other universes. So does

1068
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 7: that mean that time does have a direction? This make

1069
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 7: it about me Dan, not the watcher who's watching the

1070
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 7: multiverse from afar.

1071
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: I think portions of the universe no longer have access

1072
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: to the full information. That doesn't mean that time couldn't

1073
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: flow backwards, right, The same physical process could still go

1074
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: in the other direction.

1075
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 7: Well, it could, But to us, to our understanding and

1076
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 7: our experience of the universe. This is all the information

1077
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 7: that we have, and you don't know if there's actually

1078
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 7: other information.

1079
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know. That's true.

1080
00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 7: So we have to assume that this is maybe what

1081
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 7: all there is. This could be all that there is.

1082
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: We don't have to assume that.

1083
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 7: It's not all there is to our experience of the universe.

1084
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 7: In this universe we live in, there is a direction

1085
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 7: of time.

1086
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: If you don't have the full information, you might not

1087
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: have enough information to reconstruct the past.

1088
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, okay, so then is that what do you think

1089
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 7: Trevor means by things moving backwards in time? Like could

1090
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 7: there be something moving in the opposite direction of this

1091
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 7: direction of time?

1092
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what Trevor is asking about at all,

1093
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: and he's probably wondering, like, why these guys talking about

1094
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics I was thinking about? So let's get to time.

1095
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 7: Okay, Well, let's get to this ques. The question is

1096
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 7: can something move backwards in time?

1097
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1098
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 7: And would we notice you're the one who went into

1099
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 7: quantum mechanics, I mean, or are we not answering the

1100
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 7: question with quantum mechanics.

1101
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: Or are we No, we're not. We're not so okay

1102
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: that was a stepping stone towards the concept of thermodynamics,

1103
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: which builds up from the microscopic picture of quantum mechanics.

1104
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: It says, zoom out from the tiny particles. Experience is

1105
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 1: not of tiny particles. It's of big things with ten

1106
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: to the twenty nine or ten to the thirty particles.

1107
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 1: And on that scale something else emerges, and it's called entropy.

1108
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: You have lots of quantum particles interacting. You notice that

1109
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: they tend to spread out over the possibilities, which is

1110
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: another way basically saying entropy increases as time goes on.

1111
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: And that's where our experience of time comes from. What

1112
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: you were alluding to earlier. Like a bouncing ball bouncing

1113
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: up and down, that's a lot of particles interacting. What

1114
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: happens there is that energy tends to spread out, and

1115
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: the ball loses some energy and it bounces lower and

1116
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: lower as time goes on. So that video you could

1117
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: definitely tell if something going forwards or backwards in time.

1118
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 7: I see you're saying, let's not think about quantitum physics.

1119
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 7: Let's start think about a bouncing ball. And so maybe

1120
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 7: in Trevor's question, something moving backwards in time is maybe

1121
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 7: like a ball whose entropy to us seems to be decreasing.

1122
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, there's a sort of a subtlety hear, like,

1123
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: take that ball that's bouncing and entropy is increasing. You

1124
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: could also say, well, how do we know that ball

1125
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: is not going backwards in time with decreasing entropy. You're like, well,

1126
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: that's just sort of like definitional. Is it moving forwards

1127
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: in time with its entropy increasing, or is it moving

1128
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: backwards in time with its entropy decreasing. It's basically the

1129
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: same thing. I think what he's asking about. And the

1130
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: original continent that inspired this is that we don't see

1131
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: things moving forwards in time with their entropy decreasing, Like

1132
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 1: we don't see coffee cups reassembling themselves, we don't see

1133
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: ice freezing on a countertop, all these things that have

1134
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: entropy decreasing, And that's what it would look like. It's

1135
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: to see something moving backwards in time, because it would

1136
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: be moving backwards in time with its entropy increasing, backwards

1137
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: in time, which to us would look like it's moving

1138
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: forwards in time with its entropy decreasing.

1139
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 7: So then the answer to the question is that if

1140
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 7: something was moving backwards in time in our world, which

1141
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 7: is moving forwards that you're saying, we would be able

1142
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 7: to notice that it is moving backwards in time because

1143
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 7: its entropy would be decreasing.

1144
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't remember it, but that probably happened

1145
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: in tenet. Right, somebody moved backwards in time and drop

1146
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: the coffee cup, and to the people moving forwards in time,

1147
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 1: it looked really weird because they saw a broken coffee

1148
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: cup jump up off the floor and reassemble itself.

1149
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, no, no, that's exactly. That's the trippy thing

1150
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 7: about the movies that you see things sort of moving

1151
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 7: in unnatural ways. Yes, which really to our brain is

1152
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 7: like you're seeing entropy decrease, which we're not used to.

1153
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, that's what it would look like to

1154
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: see something move backwards in time.

1155
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 7: Well, I feel like we answered the question, which is like,

1156
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 7: you know, it's all about entropy, but entropy is not

1157
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 7: really kind of like a fundamental thing in the universe, right,

1158
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 7: Isn't it sort of like something that emerges from the

1159
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 7: interaction of lots of things, Like at the quantum level,

1160
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 7: do you still have entropy and does it play a

1161
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 7: role Like let's say we go back to the idea

1162
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 7: of looking at an electron, Could you tell if an

1163
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 7: electron was moving backwards in time?

1164
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. We don't really understand how the air

1165
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: of time emerges. But you're right, it's not something that's

1166
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: fundamental to the universe. It's emergent. But you know, we

1167
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: don't really understand emergence either, like why do laws ever emerge?

1168
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: Why isn't everything just controlled by the tiny little objects

1169
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: and chaos rules? On top of that, we don't understand emergence.

1170
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: We don't understand how time emerges. From quantum mechanics, we

1171
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: don't understand the importance of emerging things. There are some

1172
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: hints there and some clues maybe in particle physics, but

1173
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: fundamentally that's not an understood question. You can't even really

1174
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: ask what is entropy in quantum mechanics because entropy is

1175
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,399
Speaker 1: about differences and how things are arranged in the macroscopic

1176
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: and the microscopic. You have to like define two levels

1177
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: of information even be talking about entropy.

1178
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 7: I wonder if then the answer to Trevor's question is, like,

1179
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 7: you can't do something's moving back to in time unless

1180
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 7: it's really small, or unless it's only one particle.

1181
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 1: No, for the one particle, you can't tell at all. Right,

1182
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: there is no sense of entropy for a similar particle.

1183
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 7: That's what I mean. You can't tell. Like a ball,

1184
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 7: you could tell if it was moving backwards in time,

1185
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 7: but an individual electron you cannot. Yeah, that's exactly right,

1186
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 7: that's what you're saying unless the multiverse doesn't exist.

1187
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

1188
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 7: All right. Well, do you think you need to go

1189
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 7: back in time and re answer this question?

1190
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: I think I want to go back in time and

1191
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: not bring up quantum mechanics.

1192
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 7: No, but it totally changes the answer, right, Like if

1193
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 7: you ignore quantum mechanics, and yes, you can tell something

1194
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 7: to going backwards in time, if you do things about

1195
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 7: quantum mechanics, then you can.

1196
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 5: No.

1197
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm very glad we got into quant mechanics.

1198
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 7: That's just I think you're always glad to get into

1199
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 7: quantum mechanics. He has a particle physics. I think the

1200
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 7: problem sometimes is getting you off of quantum mechanics.

1201
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:28,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree.

1202
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 7: It's a little interesting reversal here. It's like we went

1203
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 7: backwards in time. All right. Well, thanks to all of

1204
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 7: our questions askers today, really interesting questions and If.

1205
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: You have questions about how the universe works, please don't

1206
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: be shy or write to me two questions at Daniel

1207
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: and Jorge dot com. You can address your questions to me,

1208
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: or to me and Jorge, or to anybody you like.

1209
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: You'll still get an answer from me.

1210
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 7: We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See

1211
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 7: you next time.

1212
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,560
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1214
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,400
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1215
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,880
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