1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: About a decade ago, a young entrepreneur, Brian Armstrong, who 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: was working at Airbnb, left that company to start a 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: company to trade cryptocurrencies. The company started, coin Base, became 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: one of the hottest I p O s on Wall 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: Street This year. Because of the f t X meltdown, 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: coin Basis had some challenges. I sat down with Brian 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Armstrong to talk about the future of his company. So, 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: for those who don't know much about cryptocurrencies, what exactly 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: is coin Base and what does it do? So coin 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Base is the primary financial account for many people participating 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: in the crypto economy. So we help people buy and 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: sell crypto. We also help them use it in a 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: variety of ways. They can use it to send money 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: to commerce far and lend or yield on their assets. 15 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: So we think of ourselves as the primary financial account 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: for people in that crypto economy. Okay, so I know 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: you're different than another company I'll mention, but is this 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: what f t X more or less did as well 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: theoretically for its clients was to enable them to trade. 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: So f t X did one piece of what I 21 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: just mentioned, which is the trading aspect. That's correct. What 22 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: do you think actually happened to f t ACTS. You've 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: been quoted as saying you think there was more than 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: just occasional bad bookkeeping. You think there was more to 25 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: it than that. Is that right? That's right? And you know, 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: obviously I'm sitting here as an outsider, but it seems 27 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: pretty clear to me that it's not just a run 28 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: on the bank or you know, poor management of funds. 29 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: It appears that they took customer funds from their exchange 30 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: and actually commingled them or moved them into their hedge 31 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: fund and then ended up in a very underwater position. 32 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 1: And that was, I believe, against their terms of service 33 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: and against the law. And so from my point of view, 34 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: it looks like a massive fraud. And we know that 35 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: because they turned off withdrawals and the customer funds which 36 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: should have been held there one to one we're not 37 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: able to be withdrawn. Um, so that appears to be 38 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: a fraud from my point of view. So in your view, 39 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: will the ft X bankruptcy hurt the industry and maybe 40 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: produce enormous amount of regulation that you may not want, Well, 41 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: I do think the f t X downfall is a 42 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: bit of a black mark for the industry. And it's 43 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: not representative of the whole industry of course though, and 44 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: you know we in traditional financial services occasionally you see 45 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: dad actors as well, like Bernie made Off or what 46 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: happened at en Roun. Now, in terms of regulation, you know, 47 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: I do think that it won't be a bad thing. 48 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: We We've actually coin based has been calling for clear 49 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: regulation and trying to work with policymakers for quite a while. 50 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: We've made some progress on that across various G twenty countries. 51 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: But I think it will serve as a wake up 52 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: call in sort of a moment of catalyst where we'll 53 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: get more clear regulation in the United States. And I 54 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: think that will actually be a really a good thing 55 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: for both coin based and the whole industry. So for 56 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: your company of people who are clients of coin base, 57 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: you are reassured them I assume regularly or they can 58 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: find out for sure if their account is managed the 59 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: way it's supposed to, it's not being used for some 60 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: additional purposes. That right, That's right. So I mean we 61 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: actually are very different than what happened with f t X. 62 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: So for one thing, coin base is based right here 63 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: in the United States. We didn't incorp rate in an 64 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: offshore jurisdiction like the Bahamas. Um, we're also a public company, 65 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: which means we meet we need to meet all of 66 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: the audit requirements of a public company, and so we 67 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: show in our publicly audited financial statements that you know, 68 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: corporate cash is separate from customer funds, and you don't 69 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: have to take our word for it, you know. UM, 70 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, a Big four accounting firm has come in 71 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: and proven that in these cases. So there's there's other 72 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: differences as well. You know, we're we have we operate 73 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: an exchange, but we've never created an exchange token like 74 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: the way f t X did. We never operated our 75 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: own market maker or hedge fund in the way that 76 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: that ft X did because we believe that that would 77 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: be a conflict of interest. So the difference between the 78 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: two firms, I think cannot be overstated, and it's really 79 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: a validation of the approach that we've taken at coin 80 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: based over the last ten years to sort of build 81 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: this this business and entrusted and compliant way as opposed 82 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: to what happened with f t X. So for people 83 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: who may not be that familiar with what your services, 84 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: let's Suppose, um, I wanted to buy a stock, I 85 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: would call a stockbroker or somebody that's a market maker, 86 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: say I want to buy a certain share. They would say, okay, 87 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: you pay a commission. Um. If somebody wants to trade 88 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency, they in effect have an account with you, 89 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: I assume, and they pay some kind of fee for 90 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: the exchange. Is that right? That's right. Trading fees is 91 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: one of our major sources of revenue, and yeah, we've 92 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: we've begun to diversify that as well, so we we 93 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: have a different category of revenue we call subscription and services, 94 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: which is has started to grow. So that's about thirty 95 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: six percent of our revenue in our last in Q 96 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: three of this year. But today people have accounts with you, 97 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: they have it clear that you you if they want 98 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: to pull their account out, they can get the money, 99 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: I guess, because you are not subject to a run 100 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: on the bank on effect, that's correct. All customer funds 101 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: are clearly segregated and help assets are held one to 102 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: one for customers. So there's really no such thing as 103 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: a run on the bank in coin bases world, because well, 104 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: number one, we're not regulated as a bank, so we 105 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: don't do fraction reserve lending. UM. But also UM, you 106 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: know a h of custo were funds are stored one 107 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: to one. So if if a hundred percent of people 108 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: want to come withdraw, they can do that and we'll 109 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: have their funds for them. Okay, So you started the 110 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: company in and you took a public I think in April, 111 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: the I p O was enormous success, and I think 112 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: at the end of that day, uh, your company was 113 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: worth maybe seventy five billion or more. UH, and you 114 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: were personally worth I think about ten billion dollars or more. 115 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,799 Speaker 1: The company's stock has come down about uh in recent times, 116 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: in part because of the the ft X and other things 117 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: that happened in the crypto world. So how does it 118 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: feel to be worth ten billion dollars one day and 119 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: not too long after a lot less. Well, you know, 120 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: it's obviously been a difficult market for not just crypto 121 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: but also really all growth tech and biotech, I would 122 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: say too, So you know, we're in good company. Netflix 123 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: and Spotify and all these these companies have also come 124 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: down similar amounts. We knew that going public would not 125 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: be an easy path, especially with as a in a 126 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: new industry being a leader. We wanted to be the 127 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: first crypto company to go out there and kind of 128 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: assumed that it would take, you know, three or four 129 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: years to go through a cycle, begin to educate, build 130 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: trust in the public markets. And so that's the process 131 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: we're going through now. And you know, my own personal 132 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: um net worth is is not something that is particularly 133 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: motivating to me in the sense of like driving personal 134 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: consumption or something like that. I'm I'm excited about building 135 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: the things with technology and cryptocurrency is one of the 136 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: most exciting areas out there right now. So um, you know, 137 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna keep working in this company for 138 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: the next hopefully decade or two, and um, I think 139 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: it's an exciting road ahead. All right, let's go to 140 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: talking about the time that you started the company and 141 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: what we were doing around about the time you did started. 142 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: So you started in two thousand twelve. As I mentioned, 143 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: what were you doing before you started? Did you know 144 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: a lot about a cryptocurrencies, what we're Where were you working? Yeah, 145 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: So before this, I was a software engineer and product 146 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: manager at Airbnb, which you know, the travel home rental company. 147 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: And you know, I'd studied computer science and economics and school. 148 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: I had tried creating a couple other startups that were 149 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: not very successful at one one of them in the 150 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: education s days, and so while I wasn't working at Airbnb, 151 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: you know, I kind of got to see they had. 152 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: They were trying to move money to a hundred ninety 153 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: different countries all over the world, both collecting payments and 154 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: then paying out the people renting their homes. And I 155 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: was one of the engineers kind of working on that, 156 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: seeing how difficult it was to move money globally both 157 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, how opaque the fees were, how long the 158 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: delays were, the chargebacks, all kinds of things like that. So, 159 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, I I this was around 160 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: December of two thousand and ten, I believe I read 161 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin white Paper which came out, and I really 162 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: it captured my attention in a really profound way. I 163 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: remember reading it and thinking this might be one of 164 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: the most important things I've ever read, and it it 165 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: was saying something. It was describing something kind of like 166 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: the Internet, which was global and decentralized, a new protocol, 167 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: but instead of for moving information around, this was for 168 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: moving value around in different forms and I basically just 169 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: couldn't stop thinking about this paper for the last For 170 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: the next six months. After that, I attended some meetups 171 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, um some early bitcoin meetups, and met 172 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: some of the early people working on it, and eventually 173 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: I just couldn't get this idea out of my head 174 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: and I decided I had to go try to build 175 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: a prototype that would make this this technology easier to 176 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: use and trusted for the average person. So what was 177 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: the valuation of your company for the first round from 178 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: the first investors? Oh? Well, um, you know, I think 179 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: why Combinator probably got seven percent of the company for 180 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: the one thousand, so, you know, not a not a 181 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: very high valuation. And then I think the Series A 182 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: was I think we raised five million a million post 183 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: so um. You know obviously that those investors did well. 184 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: So when their company went public, they return on the 185 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: initial investments were staggering. I remember reading about it at 186 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: the time, so I guess they were very happy with uh, 187 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: with you at that time. I don't know whether they've 188 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: sold their shares or they still hold them, but still 189 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: it's very profitable even at today's valuation. I sue, yeah, 190 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: that's correct. I mean and they earned it, right. So 191 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: that's that's the nature of these bets, is that if 192 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: you can see something early on that most people are 193 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: epical of in your contrarian but right, you know, occasionally 194 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: you get these massive winds that come out of it. 195 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, a thousands when point Base 196 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: went public, a thousand people employees I believe, became millionaires. 197 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of the early people wrote 198 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: me incredible letters telling us how they you know, we 199 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: had changed their life and all these things. So that 200 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: was a really powerful moment. And as being a public 201 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: a trading company CEO, I pleasurable experience or not. You know, 202 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: I actually when I before we went public, I didn't 203 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: really know much about what it would be like, and 204 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: I went and did a bunch of research. But um, 205 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: my research played out roughly how I expected. And I 206 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: actually kind of enjoy being a public company CEO. UM. 207 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: It's a good forcing function for us to get feedback 208 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: from the market, UM, to get input from analysts and investors. 209 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: I've found their their thoughts to be actually be quite 210 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 1: helpful in terms of operating our business periodically. And then 211 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: of course, you know, I spend the vast majority of 212 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: my time really just working with the team on how 213 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: do we build better products for our customers. I don't 214 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: want to lose sight of that as the primary objective. 215 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: So let's talk about yourself for a moment. Earlier in 216 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: your life. Where were you born? I was born in 217 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: San Jose, California, in Silicon Valley. Um. Yeah, and where 218 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: your parents technology people working at tech companies or something 219 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: like that. Something like that. Yeah. So my mom was 220 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: a programmer and a manager at IBM. So, um, we 221 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: had a lot of the early IBM computers in our 222 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: home and things like that. My dad is a civil 223 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: engineer and an environmental engineer. So yeah, we definitely had 224 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: to focus on you know, STEM and math and science 225 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: and education in my my household growing up. I would say, 226 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: And when you were growing up, what did you want 227 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: to be when you were in high school? Did you 228 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: want to be an athlete or a private equity investor 229 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: something important like that or what? Um, you know, I 230 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: don't think I knew exactly what I wanted to be 231 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: in high school. I remember even in high school, I 232 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: was learning programming and I was learning computers. Um. I 233 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: was fascinated with that. I built some early websites. Even 234 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: started a little business with a friend of mine in 235 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: high school. We were reselling computer hardware. So I don't 236 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: think I knew that I wanted to definitely be a 237 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: tech entrepreneur, but looking back in hindsight, that's certainly where 238 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: my energy and enthusiasm was, and I was. I was 239 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: often staying up till two am, you know, learning Linux 240 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: and computers in my bedroom, whereas and then I'd be 241 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: sleep deprived and too tired to pay attention in history 242 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: class the next day at school. But yeah, those were 243 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: my early interests for sure. Where did you go to college? 244 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: I went to Rice University in Houston, Texas. And how 245 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: long were you at Airbnb? And how did you get 246 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: that job? Now? Was that Airbnb for about a year 247 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: and a half or so, and they I was employee 248 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: number forty I think when they joined, when I joined, 249 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: and they when I left, there was maybe six d people, 250 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: so it had gone through this incredible period of growth. 251 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: I learned a lot from them, actually, um just about 252 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: how to run a great you know, product building process 253 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: with engineers, how to raise money, how to operate in 254 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, how to how to meet with people like 255 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: at y Combinator. So I learned quite a lot from 256 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: that process. When you left to start your own company, 257 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: did Brian Showsky, the one of the CEOs and wounders 258 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: are there tell you that you're making a mistake. You 259 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: should stay at a stable company like Airbnb. Well, my 260 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: boss at that time was Nate Blecharzick, who was one 261 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: of the other co founders at Airbnb and one the CTO, 262 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: and I remember how he he was very supportive and 263 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: obviously they tried to get me to stay a little bit. 264 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: But you know, generally there's a really incredible culture in 265 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley of how you know employees who who are 266 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: joining these early startups that sometimes they go on to 267 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: do their own startups, and it's it's very much a 268 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: positive some environment. You know. One of the things I'm 269 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: most proud of is actually a lot of early coint 270 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: based employees have gone on to found other companies in 271 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: crypto and um. That's been really positive and rewarding for 272 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: us to see as well. So you told your parents 273 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: you're going to start at cryptocurrency Exchange. What did they say? Uh? 274 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: I don't think they quite understood what it was at 275 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: that moment um. And my mom, you know, asked me 276 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: if I was gonna have health insurance, which you know 277 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: I learned. You know, even if you're creating a new company, 278 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: you can you can pay for your own health insurance. 279 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: And there's little things like that that made her you 280 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: better at night. But I think ultimately they trusted me 281 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: and they supported me, even if they didn't quite understand 282 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: what it was. And they said, well, you know, if 283 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: this doesn't work out, hopefully you can go get another 284 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: job and help be fine. But they sort of knew 285 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: I was always gonna try new things like this, and 286 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't worth trying to talk me out of it. 287 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: At a certain points after coin based, when public, you 288 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: decided to join the Giving Pledge was started by Bill 289 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett. So why did you 290 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: decide as such a young age and you're going to 291 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: give away so much of your money and that anybody 292 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: say to you, why don't you to save the money 293 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: and not give it away? Well, to be honest, um, yeah, 294 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: I mean I was. I just wanted to learn about philanthropy. Um. 295 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm very far along that journey, especially 296 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: you know, given the markets correcting and everything, like that. 297 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: It's not that I have, you know, as much money 298 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: as I would like to give away, but I want 299 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: to start to learn about it and just think about 300 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: where where can you do well? Where can you do 301 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: good in the world with capital? I think actually building 302 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: private companies, and I've invested in some private companies with 303 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: my wealth. I think those have potential to do a 304 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: lot of good as well. There's there's some areas I'm 305 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: passionate about in scientific research and things like that. UM, 306 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: But I think philanthropy can also be helpful. It can 307 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: also just like startups. You know, a large percentage of 308 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: philthropic organizations are probably not well managed and not effective, 309 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: and so you have to be, you know, good at 310 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: finding the ones that are actually high impact and rewarding. 311 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: How old are you now? Thirty nine, so you'll be 312 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: forty presumably next year, and so you're still very very 313 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: young by the standards of most CEOs that I know. 314 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: So what do you do to UM relieve the pressure 315 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: to you? Are you a mountain climber, a bike rider? 316 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: Do you do you have any other exercise or hobbies? 317 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: You know? I think the thing I'm most passionate about 318 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: in life it just broadly is how technology can be 319 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: used to improve the world and improve the human condition. 320 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: And I think that's been true going back to you know, 321 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: the first time somebody invented fire, or you know, putting 322 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: shoes on their feet or whatever. Technology is a way 323 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: that we can prove everything from healthcare to education to 324 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: global economic freedom with cryptocurrency, and so I'm passionate about 325 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: how we can accelerate that the pace of scientific and 326 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: technological advancement. And so what do you say to some 327 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: of the old line investors old line mean people my 328 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: age or older or maybe slightly younger than me, who 329 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: say that cryptocurrency really serves no useful social purpose and 330 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: ultimately all cryptocurrencies will go to zero. How do you 331 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: respond to them? Yeah, well, look, I think there's a 332 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: long history in technology of bubbles being created and then corrections, 333 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: and you know, there's hype cycles and doom cycles. And 334 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: this has been true obviously with the Internet in recent memory. 335 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: But even if you go back to the railroads and 336 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, the telephone and all these things, studying the 337 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: history of this, you see that when a big technology 338 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: innovation happens, early adopters come in, you see a bubble form, 339 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: there's oftentimes a rational exuberance and then a correction happens, 340 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: but ultimately there is a breakthrough there and it takes 341 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: sometimes you know, a decade or more for these these 342 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: benefits to come to fruition. So that's exactly what's happening 343 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: here with Cryptocurreny see, you know, one in four US 344 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: households have now used cryptocurrency. It's not a niche thing. 345 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: It does tend to skew towards a younger audience and 346 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: so sometimes people who grew up in their whole their 347 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: whole career was in traditional financial services, it's hard for 348 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: them to you know, this is the innovator's dilemma, right 349 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: if you if you can, if people are familiar with 350 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: the Clay Christensen book, it's hard for them to see 351 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: this new thing coming along and seeing what the disruptive 352 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: potential of it would be. And there's sometimes a little 353 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: bit of blindness that happens with that. But um nevertheless, 354 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: the change is happening and more people are using crypto 355 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: through every cycle that happens. Well before you started the 356 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: company or while you were starting, uh your company coin base, 357 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: did you buy some cryptocurrencies yourself just to sell show 358 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: that you were a believer in it, or do you 359 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: not want to have a conflict by owning some of 360 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: these cryptocurrencies. I mean, I really didn't have much money 361 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: when I started coin base. You know, I had just 362 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: left Airbnb. I had a little bit of money saved, 363 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: but I had to I wanted to exercise my options 364 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: and Airbnb when I left, and that actually almost cleaned 365 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: out my bank account. So I think I had maybe 366 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: like like three or four thousand dollars or something like 367 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: that when I left over when I started Point based, 368 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: So you know, I certainly bought a little bit of 369 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: bitcoin early on, but we're talking about like a thousand 370 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: dollars or something in that range for the first you know, 371 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: five years or actually I mean still to a large 372 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: degree to this day. I mean not myself and other employees. 373 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: Early employees at Point based, we took our salary actually 374 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: in bitcoins, so you can imagine that had some interesting 375 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: appreciation value. You know, we had to sell a lot 376 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: of it to sort of pay rent and things like that, 377 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: so it wasn't um like we were able to hold 378 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: all of it, but yeah, that there was definitely some 379 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: appreciation there. But I wish I'd had more money in 380 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 1: the early days for sure. Okay, So, um, how do 381 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: you respond to the idea that many people don't know 382 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: what they're doing when they're buying cryptocurrencies. They're not that 383 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: well informed, they're very young, and they're gonna wind up 384 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: losing their money because they're just not experienced. How do 385 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: you respond to that concern? Right? Well, I think that's 386 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: a very valid concern across really any type of investment 387 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: that people might make, not just in crypto, but um 388 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: in stocks and in everything. So my person shin is 389 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: that we actually do need more clear regulation that's crypto specific. 390 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: I mean crypto businesses like coin based were already regulated 391 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: like a traditional financial service business. And you know, we 392 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: have a CFDC license, and we have Finns were registered 393 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: with finn Send, we have a New York bit license 394 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: and various money money transmission licenses. That's that's just in 395 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: the US, UM. But I think we need more crypto 396 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: specific regulation in the US, both around stable coins, how 397 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: centralized exchanges and custodians are, you know, the best practices 398 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: they should have in place around audits and you know, 399 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: not commingling funds. Many of those things we're already doing, 400 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: and then the big piece will be actually getting clarity 401 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: around what's a commodity, what is the security, what's a 402 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: stable coin? And we need sort of an updated version 403 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: of the Howie test, which is um something that the 404 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: SEC uses two that applies more to cryptocurrency. So there's 405 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: a lot of legislation being put through Congress now and 406 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: coin based has been very active in DC working with policymakers. 407 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: They're they're strong bipartisan support in the US to actually 408 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: get clear crypto regulation UM. The FTX situation created a 409 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: little bit of a delay in in the legislation that 410 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: I was hoping was going to be coming getting past 411 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: in the next quarter or so, But I think within 412 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: the next year we can hopefully get something there in 413 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: the US and then go for the rest of the 414 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: G twenty as well. So Sam Bankman Freed was well 415 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: known for giving money to politicians as campaign contributions and 416 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: for lobbying members directly in Capitol Hill. Do you go 417 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: to Capitol Hill very much the lobby directly for legislation 418 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: and one type or another. Are you very involved in 419 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: political contributions? So I go to d C. Historically I've 420 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: gone to d C and maybe two or three times 421 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: a year, and um, I imagine that may even be 422 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: more frequent now in the next year or two. Um, 423 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: we've made small donations to certain candidates that are pro 424 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: crypto and we you know, but just standard stuff like 425 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: you know, five thousand hundred dollars or these kind of 426 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: basic minimums. We don't actually we've never made any kind 427 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: of donations on the scale that Sam Makman Freed was 428 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: doing through through these large packs and things like that. 429 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: And um, you know, part of it is like it's 430 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: how the game is played. You need to sort of 431 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: make relevant donations. That's what all companies do, public companies 432 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: do around policy issues. But it does seem like the 433 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: way that Sam was doing it, where he was so 434 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: visible in d C, there was such a large amount 435 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: of money I think I think he was the second 436 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: largest donor to the Democratic Party or something like that, 437 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: it does seem like it was happening at a different scale. 438 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: And UM, you know, I think there's some really serious 439 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: questions to be asked now about should should some of 440 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: that money be clawed back because it appears that it 441 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: was stolen from customers. So when you come to Washington, 442 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: you meet with members of Congress, do they really understand 443 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies or you have to educate. I'm a fair bit 444 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: you know. When I first started going to d C 445 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: maybe eight or nine years ago, I think many of 446 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: them didn't understand crypto at all, and there was a 447 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: lot of very basic conversations. I think today probably of 448 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: Congress maybe understands the basics, and they understand the potential 449 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: of this technology that it has. It has a lot 450 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: of innovation potential which we want to preserve, but it 451 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: also has some risks, and unfortunately it's attracted some some 452 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: bad actors to try to come into this industry to 453 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: try to profit from it, and so they recognize the 454 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: balance the need for both clear regulation and preserving that 455 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: innovation potential. There's still probably, i would say, of Congress 456 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: where they're either just very hostile to it or or 457 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: just ignorant of it. But it's not the majority view 458 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: at this point. I've actually been very pleasantly surprised to 459 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: see strong by bipartisan support to get clear regulation but 460 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: help this industry grow. You know here in the United States, 461 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: in the financial center of the world, um as opposed 462 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: to it being built, you know, in these havens or 463 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: off offshore jurisdictions where we've seen that customers can get hurt, 464 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: including U S citizens who may be attracted to to 465 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: those kinds of products. I suppose I say, I listened 466 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: to your interview and I like to buy some cryptocurrencies. 467 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: What would you recommend as somebody who doesn't know much 468 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: about crypto about what they do to get educated and 469 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: would you recommend to that. Suppose somebody is a young 470 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: professional he or she has a modest amount of money 471 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: in the bank, would you recommend they put pent in crypto? 472 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: Five said, how what do you recommend to people that 473 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: they do if they want to experiment investing in crypto? Right, 474 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: so we're not a registered investment advisors. I have to 475 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: be a little carefully. I mean, we're not giving any 476 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: investment advice to people. But what I would what I 477 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: do personally and what I would you know, what I 478 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: would tell people I should say personally is that, um, 479 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: if this is something new, don't invest in anything that 480 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: you don't understand. And if you want to learn about it, 481 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: you know you can put one percent of your net 482 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: worth into it or something like that that you would 483 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: be okay if if it all went to zero. But um, 484 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: if if it's not, then it's a way for you 485 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: to dip your your toe in the water and hopefully 486 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, own a little piece of this crypto economy 487 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: that that's happening more and more on the Internet for 488 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: the next five or ten years. So, UM, I'm more 489 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: in the mindset of personally, I don't actively trade crypto 490 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 1: or anything like that. I'm more of like a long 491 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: term buying holder. And then I just try to help 492 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: the company build good products and services. So I'm not 493 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: like an active trader of crypto personally. So for somebody 494 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: that UM is a young person watching, I would say, 495 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: I want to be Brian Armstrong. I want to be 496 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: out of be a person who starts a comp a 497 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: very successful leader in in his industry. What would you 498 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: recommend as the skill set or the kind of things 499 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: that somebody should do to become you. Well, it's odd question. 500 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure some people want to do that. Not everybody 501 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: wants to do that, But for people who do, I 502 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: think number one is study engineering, science, math, STEM. I 503 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: think that's that's the language of our future that you 504 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: can have the most impact. UM, And then I would 505 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: say try building companies. I think that building technology companies 506 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: is probably one of the best levels we have to 507 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: improve the world, regardless of what problem we're talking about, 508 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: whether you know that's climate change or fixing educational healthcare, 509 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: anything like that. So, and you know, starting companies is hard. Um. 510 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: I started a number of companies that didn't work or 511 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: they were barely successful in some small way, and it was, 512 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: you know, a coin basis probably the tenth idea that 513 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: I had that I tried, and that one ended up 514 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: working really really well. Um, But there's more. There's others 515 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: that I hope to it in the future, and I'm 516 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: maybe someone works, some won't. And so you have to 517 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: be okay with resilience and failures and setbacks along the way. 518 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 519 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 520 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.