Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly
Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy be Wilson. Tracy, we have an
Speaker 1: interview today that I have been wanting to do for
Speaker 1: a very long time. At this point, He've been talking
Speaker 1: about it for a while. I know you're probably like,
Speaker 1: this is never going to happen, But it did because
Speaker 1: several months back, Leslie iwork's team reached out to me
Speaker 1: and asked if I would be interested in talking to
Speaker 1: Leslie on the show, and the answer was a resounding yes.
Speaker 1: I would have wanted to talk to her before that.
Speaker 1: I think she's amazing. Our schedules, though, just did not
Speaker 1: want to cooperate. It became comedic where it was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm getting back from California on this day. I could
Speaker 1: do any time after that the following week and it
Speaker 1: would be like no. Then Leslie starts her travel that
Speaker 1: night and it would be like Okay, well, uh, Leslie's
Speaker 1: gonna be back this day, and I'm like I will
Speaker 1: be on a flight to Italy. Like it just nothing
Speaker 1: was working. But we finally wrestled those schedules to the ground. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like how it finally worked when I was on vacation.
Speaker 1: Perfect timing actually was perfect. Yeah, it was during a
Speaker 1: week when we were not doing our regular record. We
Speaker 1: did some recording before you went on vacation, so I
Speaker 1: had like some freed up time in there, and it
Speaker 1: just everything came together as it should. Hooray. If the
Speaker 1: name Iworks sounds familiar, it's because it's come up on
Speaker 1: the show before, although it's been quite a while.
Speaker 2: I Works.
Speaker 1: Leslie's grandfather was an animator and cartoonist and director and
Speaker 1: special effects artist and many other things, and also famously
Speaker 1: Walt Disney's partner from his earliest years in Kansas City.
Speaker 1: Don I Works, Leslie's father spent third years at the
Speaker 1: Disney Company, pushing the boundaries of film's more technical side
Speaker 1: and venting, among other things, the first three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty degree camera. So Leslie's pedigree is really quite impressive,
Speaker 1: and Leslie herself is very impressive. She is a filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Her latest project is a documentary titled Disneyland Handcrafted, and
Speaker 1: it shares the story of Disneyland's construction, something we talked
Speaker 1: about in our Haunted Mansion episodes, which were quite a
Speaker 1: while back now, although we have rerun them as classics.
Speaker 1: I think when the pandemic first popped off and everyone
Speaker 1: was at home, we did a list of our favorite
Speaker 1: episodes that we republished, and that was on there because
Speaker 1: I love that place. But this is a really beautiful
Speaker 1: look and also terrifying, as we'll discuss in the course
Speaker 1: of the interview, look at how Disneyland went from an empty,
Speaker 1: massive lot to the place the amusement park that we
Speaker 1: all know today at Leslie very graciously spent time talking
Speaker 1: to me about making this film. So here is our conversation.
Speaker 1: I am so beyond delighted to get to be here
Speaker 1: today with Leslie. I works someone who's work I have
Speaker 1: admired a great deal and we're going to jump right in. So, Leslie,
Speaker 1: your grandfather's story was of course incredibly instrumental in your
Speaker 1: decision to become a documentary filmmaker rather than what you
Speaker 1: initially went to film school for, which was narrative film
Speaker 1: I believe. Will you talk about that and how that
Speaker 1: resulted in your first film, The Hand Behind the Mouse.
Speaker 2: Sure, First of all, thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 2: Nice to be here. Yeah, I you know, I went
Speaker 2: to fill USC have a great time, and when I graduated,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone's always trying to look for what are
Speaker 2: they going to do next, what's our next project, and
Speaker 2: what's what are they passionate about? And I think for
Speaker 2: me it was to tell the story of my grandfather,
Speaker 2: who who I never got to know because he died
Speaker 2: when I was just one. So I thought, you know what,
Speaker 2: I now armed with a film degree, and I want
Speaker 2: to tell his story in a documentary. And so I
Speaker 2: got the support of roy Disney roy E Disney to
Speaker 2: do it in Michael Eisner, and you know, I think
Speaker 2: they probably thought it was going to be like a
Speaker 2: small little doc and you know, no big deal, and
Speaker 2: then it ended up being a They said, well, we'll
Speaker 2: fund you for sixty minutes, and I really wanted it
Speaker 2: to be a ninety and I just have a great
Speaker 2: time and made the best film I could. And when
Speaker 2: they saw the sixty they said, well, actually it's so good,
Speaker 2: we'll fund you for an additional thirty to make it
Speaker 2: what you really wanted. So that's that was great and
Speaker 2: ultimately became this project of fulfillment in a way to
Speaker 2: get to know my grandfather that I never got to know,
Speaker 2: and I traveled all the way through and walked in
Speaker 2: the footsteps of Walton and my grandfather back in Kansas City.
Speaker 2: For those that don't know, his name was by Works,
Speaker 2: and he was Walt's original business partner and collaborator for
Speaker 2: the majority of his life. As an animator and also
Speaker 2: as an Academy Award winning visual effects and engineer. He
Speaker 2: developed all sorts of camera systems, projection systems, and all
Speaker 2: sorts of things for the parks. So it was a
Speaker 2: multi part story that I was able to tell and
Speaker 2: really get into all the facets of his life. And
Speaker 2: so that was a lot of fun for.
Speaker 1: Me, and you have subsequently made a lot more document her.
Speaker 1: He's both in standalone form and as series like Recycled Life,
Speaker 1: the Pixar Story, one of my very favorites. Industrial light
Speaker 1: and magic, creating the impossible, and on and on. If
Speaker 1: somebody just wants to spend like a great weekend on
Speaker 1: the couch where they learn a lot and have fun,
Speaker 1: your library is like where it's at. Ah, thank you,
Speaker 1: Oh it's listen. Researching for this like doing my reviews.
Speaker 1: I was very delighted to call it work. Not all
Speaker 1: of those films are about creative people and endeavors, but
Speaker 1: a lot of them are. And I have heard you
Speaker 1: speak before about growing up around the work of your father,
Speaker 1: Don Iworks, who was also groundbreaking in filmmaking and as
Speaker 1: an inventor and technology. How as being immersed in that
Speaker 1: world of filmmaking from the time you were very young
Speaker 1: informed the way that you tell stories, and particularly stories
Speaker 1: of creative people.
Speaker 2: It's a good question. I've often wanted that myself. I mean, basically,
Speaker 2: what I really think happened is that I was given
Speaker 2: the opportunity to go behind the scenes with my dad
Speaker 2: as a kid, whether that be the Disney Studio back
Speaker 2: lot when it was still a working set, you know,
Speaker 2: back lot with movies happening and in production, and also
Speaker 2: to the parks backstage Disneyland and Walt Disney World and Epcot,
Speaker 2: and I got to see is a little kid is
Speaker 2: you know, a young adult little kid young how things
Speaker 2: are done? And he would always be very generous in
Speaker 2: sharing with me how things are done, and it just
Speaker 2: I think created this inquisitiveness in me to want to know,
Speaker 2: you know, how do movies get made? How do you
Speaker 2: know how do these animatronic figures get made, and he
Speaker 2: would show me how cameras get built and how he
Speaker 2: comes up with optics and lenses and all sorts of things.
Speaker 2: So it was not only technologically, it was also movie
Speaker 2: making as well, and I think that early interest fueled
Speaker 2: my interest to go to film school, and ultimately, ironically
Speaker 2: or not, that the fact that I've told stories about
Speaker 2: how things are do get made, whether it be industrial
Speaker 2: like and magic and the visual effects, or whether it
Speaker 2: be you know, Pixar and how they make their films,
Speaker 2: or whether it be imagineering and how they make the
Speaker 2: parks and the rides and the attractions. It's all kind
Speaker 2: of interesting to me. But I think what really was
Speaker 2: interesting to me also in a young young age, was business.
Speaker 2: Business and business opportunities and how people find something and
Speaker 2: find a niche that needs to be, you know, a
Speaker 2: hole that needs to be filled out there in the world,
Speaker 2: and they figure out a way to create it and
Speaker 2: build it and bring it into fruition. And also innovation,
Speaker 2: and so innovation, business and creativity I think are the
Speaker 2: three pillars of a lot of my work. And I
Speaker 2: really enjoy all those stories even independently, but when they
Speaker 2: come together, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1: Speaking of exciting ways they've come together, your most recent project, Handcrafted,
Speaker 1: delves into the creation of Disneyland, which hits all of
Speaker 1: those pillars. There is some amazing footage in this documentary because,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned in it, while Disney hired photographers and
Speaker 1: cinematographers to basically have the construction documented throughout, and you
Speaker 1: ended up with a lot of footage that no one
Speaker 1: had ever seen before that you to work with. How
Speaker 1: do you begin to sort through all of that when
Speaker 1: you realize you have to turn that into a film?
Speaker 2: Well it, how do I even begin? I think what
Speaker 2: happened was we found these binders that were in the
Speaker 2: film archives, and we borrowed them and looked through them,
Speaker 2: and they were from like the fifties, right sixties, and
Speaker 2: they were the list of film reels that were taken
Speaker 2: captured during the making of the Disneyland park and film
Speaker 2: reels post Disneyland, you know, opening over the next decade.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So we started going through all this for the Imagineering Story,
Speaker 2: and we used quite a bit of it in The
Speaker 2: Imagineering Story Episode one. But my editor most Stobe had said,
Speaker 2: you know, one day, He's like, you know what if
Speaker 2: we tried to do something that's just using this footage
Speaker 2: by itself al veritay and I said, well, that's a
Speaker 2: great idea. I said, you know, you need to find
Speaker 2: a structure for it and figure out, you know, how
Speaker 2: much is there and find the audio bytes to support that.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do talking heads, typical talking heads.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do still photos. I think what
Speaker 2: really intrigued me and intrigued us as a team was
Speaker 2: the fact that this footage was shot by the photographers
Speaker 2: who were some of the true life adventure photographers at Disney,
Speaker 2: hired to go shoot animals in Africa and you know,
Speaker 2: groundhogs on the prairie and things like that, and so
Speaker 2: these guys were so used to documenting real life as
Speaker 2: it happens for hours. So that was intriguing to me
Speaker 2: that they shot these scenes as scenes. But when you
Speaker 2: look at the reels and the way we received them,
Speaker 2: they were all over the map, they were all disorganized,
Speaker 2: and we'd have to basically find the one shot that
Speaker 2: was on real thirty two and then another shot part
Speaker 2: of that scene that was on sixty five, and we
Speaker 2: finally had to like organize, you know what, became probably
Speaker 2: six sixty to seventy hours material just for the pre opening,
Speaker 2: and so taking all that information, all that and figuring out,
Speaker 2: like an archaeological dig, what was this mound of dirt
Speaker 2: and where did what direction was it facing, what direction
Speaker 2: is the camera facing, and what is that going to
Speaker 2: be down the road? Is that tomorrow Land? Is that Adventureland?
Speaker 2: So all that stuff became a major feat for my
Speaker 2: editor Mo and my producer Mark Ketley and myself to
Speaker 2: really go through it all and figure out, okay, well
Speaker 2: what is what? But then now it was about how
Speaker 2: do we tell the story? Because construction footage by itself
Speaker 2: can be a bit boring, so we need a story.
Speaker 2: So then we started going through all these transcripts of
Speaker 2: people figuring out who was there at the time, through
Speaker 2: photographs that we've seen and research that we found in
Speaker 2: the Disney archives, who was there and who were the
Speaker 2: key people involved in the making of the park. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people, but there were some, obviously,
Speaker 2: people that were kind of right front and center in
Speaker 2: the major parts of it, the finance, the engineering, the story,
Speaker 2: the construction, the leadership of all that. So we found
Speaker 2: we started going through all these transcripts of people and
Speaker 2: then realizing that so much that was there that was
Speaker 2: interesting was about the drama happening behind the scenes, right
Speaker 2: and it was the fact that Walt was crazy, and
Speaker 2: Walt was insane, and you know, how's he ever going
Speaker 2: to do this? And he's going to run the company
Speaker 2: into the ground, and you know, there was so much
Speaker 2: doubt and fear in some cases of just can this
Speaker 2: get done? And then ultimately the Disneyland TV show with
Speaker 2: ABC promised to have this park done in a year,
Speaker 2: So he set himself up for what should have been
Speaker 2: total failure to make that park. In today's world that
Speaker 2: would never happen. And the fact that he did, I
Speaker 2: think is the ultimate feet of this film. And I
Speaker 2: think was also unique in this film is that it's
Speaker 2: never been told in this way before, just straightforward footage
Speaker 2: that allows you to sit in it and immerse yourself
Speaker 2: in it. And that's really what we wanted to do,
Speaker 2: is take you back in time into this time capsule
Speaker 2: of that plot of dirt that that would become the
Speaker 2: happiest place on earth, and see how they did it.
Speaker 1: I imagine there are a number of times when you
Speaker 1: were going through all of those hours of archival footage
Speaker 1: and notes in information where you get some surprises along
Speaker 1: the way. Did any of those happen in this project?
Speaker 1: And what were they? Well?
Speaker 2: I think, you know, to me, what stood out was
Speaker 2: so much of the detail in building, the like the
Speaker 2: brick and the you know, just crafting things by hand.
Speaker 2: You know, you kind of take it for granted now
Speaker 2: when you walk through the park that this park was
Speaker 2: always you always think it's it was always here, you know,
Speaker 2: and and but this was the very origin story of it,
Speaker 2: and how they the level of detail that they went
Speaker 2: with to create it. It could have been any other
Speaker 2: amusement park that's kind of just off the shelf stuff,
Speaker 2: but they they literally crafted so much of this by hand,
Speaker 2: so much artistry to it, that you really gain a
Speaker 2: whole new appreciation for it. And I think the fact
Speaker 2: that they only had about ten percent of the plans
Speaker 2: built when they started making a Disneyland, that's incredible to me.
Speaker 2: And I had never known that, And so I think
Speaker 2: those were little surprises along the way as we started
Speaker 2: to read the transcripts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the kind of thing that if a
Speaker 1: person in a leadership position did today, Like I only
Speaker 1: have ten percent of this planned out, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: go ahead and get guys on the ground. They get fired, right,
Speaker 1: It's not it's not anything that's really tenable in most
Speaker 1: people's eyes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think also what's interesting is to see
Speaker 2: those guys walking on those beams, smoking, you know, and
Speaker 2: going up and down the sliding down this beam, and
Speaker 2: it's just like the sheer fearlessness at that time of
Speaker 2: just getting this done and not caring about I mean,
Speaker 2: OSHA was not even a thing then, so it was
Speaker 2: just like, let's just do it. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's so refreshing for so many people to just have
Speaker 2: that ability to, you know, just go do it. There
Speaker 2: weren't a lot of rules and stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so easy for people today to think of
Speaker 1: Disney as this very money flush juggernaut of a company,
Speaker 1: but your documentary really shows how tight money was in
Speaker 1: those early days and how stressful this project was for
Speaker 1: everyone involved, but of course for Walt Disney in particular.
Speaker 1: How much of that heavier side of this project were
Speaker 1: you aware of before you started making the film.
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly knew about it, because I've done a
Speaker 2: lot of research on Disneyland and read a ton of
Speaker 2: the books and whatnot and so, and also having told
Speaker 2: Imagineering story episode one, I was aware of a lot
Speaker 2: of those stories, and I think for me, I just
Speaker 2: I didn't want to tell that story the same way. Again,
Speaker 2: there was a there's a book called Disney's Land that
Speaker 2: I really appreciated, and I think that that book was
Speaker 2: very inspirational too, and that it really does get into
Speaker 2: the kind of the hardship of behind the scenes of
Speaker 2: what it took to make the park, to build it,
Speaker 2: you know, to put it together. And so I took that.
Speaker 2: I took that very seriously and really wanted you to
Speaker 2: feel it. And I think with the choice of music
Speaker 2: that we used, and it's it's not your typical happy
Speaker 2: Disney you know cues, it's it's actually a little more
Speaker 2: grounded and making you feel Yeah, the more the weight
Speaker 2: I think of what they were all going through.
Speaker 1: We have talked on this show before about the timeline
Speaker 1: of Disneyland's construction, and so even being aware of it,
Speaker 1: seeing just how much, like getting the visual of how
Speaker 1: much was still undone even a few months before opening,
Speaker 1: is a very different thing. Yeah, did seeing that footage
Speaker 1: give you as much anxiety as it did me, Like,
Speaker 1: I know it's going to turn out. I know we're
Speaker 1: going to land the ship, but it still was like,
Speaker 1: this is very stressful.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is, and it so many people have said
Speaker 2: to me. My heart was racing towards the end there.
Speaker 2: It's like are they going to you know, how are
Speaker 2: they going to do it? And I think that's I
Speaker 2: think when you finally get to the rehearsals a few
Speaker 2: days before and everyone's all over themselves, all over the place,
Speaker 2: on top of each other in the park trying to
Speaker 2: rehearse for the TV show that's live across the country
Speaker 2: and also finish the park at the same time. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's conflict. And I think that once we started seeing
Speaker 2: all that come together and knowing that you still got
Speaker 2: wet cement and you still have tomorrow Land that's not
Speaker 2: built finished yet, and you start to feel the pressure.
Speaker 2: And we also the editing style I think also started
Speaker 2: to get a little bit quicker, and you start to
Speaker 2: really feel the tension as we go, you start to
Speaker 2: edit a little bit faster is in pacing, and so
Speaker 2: that's a subliminal way to kind of know, okay, well
Speaker 2: they were acting faster, and we need to edit faster,
Speaker 2: you know, to create that phonetic energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were two quotes that really stood out to
Speaker 1: me in it. One was from harber Goff where he says,
Speaker 1: I didn't understand what worry was until he was talking
Speaker 1: to Walt about, you know, just Walt's day to day concerns.
Speaker 1: And then the other one being art link letter saying
Speaker 1: it was a great, big panic all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when you think about those two things in conjunction,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's a marvel. Everyone didn't have a
Speaker 1: heart attack.
Speaker 2: It's true, especially Walt. Yeah, you know, I agree. It
Speaker 2: seemed like maybe at the beginning when they were making,
Speaker 2: you know, doing gag shots and gag scenes and having
Speaker 2: fun in the in the field, Yeah, you didn't see
Speaker 2: so much of that as it got closer to the finish.
Speaker 1: Did you have any difficulty reconciling all of this information
Speaker 1: about just how stressed Walt actually was every single day
Speaker 1: with that very cool, smooth, assured persona that he was
Speaker 1: always showing the public on television and in interview appearances.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it's funny because he had to
Speaker 2: put on that persona obviously, he's Uncle Walt to so
Speaker 2: many people around the country, and he had to show
Speaker 2: that that sort of real confidence and sureness. But what
Speaker 2: I thought was actually pretty brilliant was in the TV show,
Speaker 2: they made fun of themselves. You know, they acknowledge that
Speaker 2: they're in the final race and it's you know, all
Speaker 2: hands on deck and it's the final push. And you know,
Speaker 2: even when the guy was falling over in the tractor
Speaker 2: and jumps out that scene, they said, oh, nobody got hurt,
Speaker 2: you know, and you know, we can tell you to
Speaker 2: continue to have a good time. I mean, it's they
Speaker 2: kind of make light of a lot of it, but
Speaker 2: then they're also acknowledging that they're they're in that final
Speaker 2: stretch and it's and it's harried, right, And so I
Speaker 2: think by by just being open about it and not
Speaker 2: denying that and sharing that with the audience, I think
Speaker 2: that was really smart. They brought the audience into the
Speaker 2: whole process and shared it with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh the gasp, I gasped when that big tractor
Speaker 1: goes over. I was like, oh, oh, he's fine. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's fine. I know you talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about this already, and approaching this with a very
Speaker 1: verite style in mind. But to be clear to any
Speaker 1: of our listeners reviewers who haven't seen it, this film
Speaker 1: includes voice recordings of people who were working on the
Speaker 1: Disneyland project. But you never cut away to those interviews,
Speaker 1: like to show the person speaking. And I think correct
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. You enhanced some of the sound
Speaker 1: of the original footage. So those those kind of immersive
Speaker 1: sounds of like hammers hitting things and you know, trowels
Speaker 1: scraping against stone, et cetera, are there, and the footage
Speaker 1: is always the building and the construction, and it becomes
Speaker 1: really really powerful. Were there any was that always did
Speaker 1: you already always have this vision that we're never cutting
Speaker 1: away from this construction or did that kind of congeal
Speaker 1: in the process of laying out what you had?
Speaker 2: No we early on it was like, we're staying all
Speaker 2: in in this footage. We're not going to cut away
Speaker 2: to somewhere else, right, or a flashback to something. It
Speaker 2: was always about staying in the moment as if you
Speaker 2: were there and living in it. And that was and
Speaker 2: then the sound effects were really something that I that
Speaker 2: was important to me because I knew that all this
Speaker 2: footage was mos. It was there was no sound to
Speaker 2: this raw footage that we got right and they didn't
Speaker 2: record sound when they were in the field, so it
Speaker 2: was all silent, and so when it came to together,
Speaker 2: we had to do a temp audio track to build
Speaker 2: in all these sound effects, and that's when it really
Speaker 2: started to come alive as a proof of concept that
Speaker 2: we did. And then we added some voiceovers to it
Speaker 2: and just to kind of see get a feel for it,
Speaker 2: and that's when Disney Plus said, Okay, this is great.
Speaker 2: And then the project kind of went on hold for
Speaker 2: a bit and then kind of sat on a shelf
Speaker 2: for a number of reasons, not due to the project itself.
Speaker 2: It was just you know, what have you. And then
Speaker 2: Jason Recker with Disney Experiences saw it. I showed him
Speaker 2: a copy. I'm like, by the way, your seventieth anniversary
Speaker 2: of Disneyland's coming up, and you know, I got this
Speaker 2: project if you're interested, is sitting on a shelf. And
Speaker 2: he was like, oh my god, this is amazing. So
Speaker 2: they funded the completion of it, and I think what
Speaker 2: was great was that once we got the real the
Speaker 2: finishing funds to do that, it was like all hands
Speaker 2: on deck. We got to get all the sound bites,
Speaker 2: we got to get all the audio clips, all the
Speaker 2: audio effects, sound effects to go with it, and I said,
Speaker 2: it has to be authentic. Every single thing you see
Speaker 2: has to feel authentic, and it has to be from
Speaker 2: that era. So tractors have to be from the fifty four,
Speaker 2: you know, the hammers or whatever, you know, whatever saws
Speaker 2: they use at that time. Obviously you can't. They didn't
Speaker 2: have electric and I'll think to that. So it had
Speaker 2: to be really authentic to the time of what they
Speaker 2: were doing. And so we did that to the best
Speaker 2: of our ability in the offline edit. But then once
Speaker 2: we got to Skywalker, Bonnie Wilde and I had a
Speaker 2: conversation and I told her that I said, look at
Speaker 2: let's just make this as authentic as it can be.
Speaker 2: Go the extra mile to get the period effects, and
Speaker 2: then work with Disney to get the sounds from the
Speaker 2: park at that time as well, because Disney has a
Speaker 2: library of sounds, and it was harder than we thought
Speaker 2: to try to get some of those authentic Disneyland sounds
Speaker 2: from that from that first year, but we were able
Speaker 2: to get some, so it was fun. And then and
Speaker 2: then like the Mark Twain in that scene, and you know,
Speaker 2: you got you got water, and you got the sound
Speaker 2: of the engine and the paddle wheeler, and you've got
Speaker 2: you know, voices of people in the distance, And we
Speaker 2: didn't want to ever fabricate what somebody might be saying.
Speaker 2: So it's really just more muffully general ambiance because we
Speaker 2: could have we could have made some stuff up, and
Speaker 2: no way we would ever do that. Like, I was
Speaker 2: so protective of this footage and wanted to make sure
Speaker 2: that it lived up to what it could have what
Speaker 2: it must have been like at that time.
Speaker 1: Right, it sounds incredible. I know. I've seen footage of
Speaker 1: you in the Stag Theater at Skywalker Sound, which is
Speaker 1: an incredible place, and I've been lucky enough to visit once.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what this sounded like in that setting,
Speaker 1: because for our listeners, this is like a theater that
Speaker 1: is optimized to sound incredible and delivered the best possible audio.
Speaker 1: I feel like the Hammers alone would be like oddly
Speaker 1: joyous in that theater.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was incredible. That's the theater. And I sat
Speaker 2: in George Lucas's seat in the center, the optimal seat
Speaker 2: for sound, and we mixed it in at Most and
Speaker 2: it was really fun because, you know, the idea was
Speaker 2: that if you're in there in the park in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty four during construction, then you are hearing stuff all
Speaker 2: around you. You're hearing hammers back there, you're hearing trucks
Speaker 2: over here, you're doing you know, so, you're hearing voices
Speaker 2: here and there, you're seeing it, you're hearing a helicopter
Speaker 2: fly over. And so to me, it was exciting to
Speaker 2: build that that three sixty audio escape soundscape, you know,
Speaker 2: and that was we put a lot of effort into
Speaker 2: that and it was fun to do that. And I
Speaker 2: hope there's more opportunities to show this film theatrically so
Speaker 2: we can that atmost the work we did in at
Speaker 2: most pay you know, people can experience more.
Speaker 1: So good. This is a good example of something that
Speaker 1: you've done a few times in your career as a director,
Speaker 1: where you are immersing yourself so deeply in these projects
Speaker 1: that are about people doing incredibly creative and impressive things,
Speaker 1: but they're often perceived by others as being completely impossible
Speaker 1: before they are accomplished. What lessons have you learned or
Speaker 1: taken away from researching and studying all of these people.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, I'm constantly inspired and of
Speaker 2: course just like, well what have I done? You know,
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, these people are like amazing brilliant minds,
Speaker 2: and I'm always inspired and always like, Okay, I got
Speaker 2: to do my next thing bigger and better and greater,
Speaker 2: and you know, continue to be an entrepreneur. And I
Speaker 2: think what I what I find that's a thread through
Speaker 2: all of it is this this fearlessness and this ability
Speaker 2: to just take a leap and that and Wat especially
Speaker 2: saying I've been broke five times, one war is not
Speaker 2: going to matter, you know, that that sort of ultimate fearlessness.
Speaker 2: And I guess the fact that he doesn't fear financial
Speaker 2: collapse even with the studio. I'm sure he did, of
Speaker 2: course he did, but to say that and somebody to
Speaker 2: repeat it that, he wouldn't have said it if he
Speaker 2: didn't mean it, right, And so I think that that
Speaker 2: is amazing. And I think when people what inspires me,
Speaker 2: I suppose is that the stories I've told her about
Speaker 2: people that had a vision and they trusted their instincts
Speaker 2: to follow that vision, and they also got amazing support
Speaker 2: around them to make that vision happen. And that vision now,
Speaker 2: whether it be you know, Pixar, or whether it be
Speaker 2: you know, the theme parks or creating a restaurant. These things
Speaker 2: are that I've told have lasted. And I'm always wondering
Speaker 2: why something lasts one hundred years or one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty five years. What is the DNA in that? And
Speaker 2: I did the Hearst documentary and that's one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty five years of Herst, you know, And it's it's
Speaker 2: just amazing to me. What because there's so many businesses
Speaker 2: that don't don't survive across the world. Some last one year,
Speaker 2: some last fIF ten years, some last longer, but very
Speaker 2: few last one hundred or longer. And when you really
Speaker 2: distill it down, and so what is it? What is
Speaker 2: what is the baton pass from leadership to leadership that
Speaker 2: keeps it going? And what does that How does that
Speaker 2: create ave DNA that origin story continue to grow and
Speaker 2: shape and perpetuate basically, you know, years beyond the founder's death,
Speaker 2: you know. So I find these stories very interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned things that have incredible longevity because
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about something like this project
Speaker 1: like Handcrafted is very much a historical documentary versus others
Speaker 1: that you've done that are a little more contemporary. Do
Speaker 1: you take a different approach when you're looking at historical
Speaker 1: things or is it all just about the truth at
Speaker 1: the end of the day for you, I think.
Speaker 2: I'm trying with archival stuff. It's hard. They're both. They're
Speaker 2: all hard, obviously documentaries, But because you're crafting a story,
Speaker 2: sometimes people already know that story. So the key is
Speaker 2: if if people know a story already, how do you
Speaker 2: tell it differently and how do you bring in fresh
Speaker 2: information and tell it from a fresh perspective. And so
Speaker 2: that's a challenge. That's what I always try to do.
Speaker 2: But if it's a subject like Zverite, like my film
Speaker 2: Selling Lies or Recycled Life back in the day, those
Speaker 2: are stories that have some story to them already. They've
Speaker 2: been in the newspaper or stories have been done around
Speaker 2: them or whatever a little bit. But now I want
Speaker 2: to get in there and tell my own version of that.
Speaker 2: I want to get in and really understand what is
Speaker 2: going on and how is it affecting. And I would
Speaker 2: say that Recycled Life, which was my first short film
Speaker 2: that you know It was also Oscar nominated back in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, was it It was a while ago
Speaker 2: or two thousand and seven. Sorry. The thing about Recycling
Speaker 2: Life was that it was unfolding before my eyes, and
Speaker 2: this is about people living in the largest landfill in
Speaker 2: Central America and who had families born and raised in
Speaker 2: the garbage dump for sixty years, right, And so to me,
Speaker 2: this was a very very hard and difficult film to
Speaker 2: produce and direct and shoot myself. But it was happening.
Speaker 2: Things were happening around you, and you just had to
Speaker 2: find the story. And it takes a while to find
Speaker 2: your characters and follow them and you know, get get
Speaker 2: to know them, and then what are their goals and
Speaker 2: what are their troubles, and then who's making me who?
Speaker 2: And so that was a that was a really great
Speaker 2: lesson for me to take an unfolding story, film it
Speaker 2: in every way I could think of, and then have probably, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know how many hours to edit that together,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think what happens in the making
Speaker 2: of documentaries as well, is that you start to get
Speaker 2: after a certain point, very comfortable with the footage and
Speaker 2: very comfortable with the subject and sometimes that's not good,
Speaker 2: meaning you kind of take for granted that you're looking
Speaker 2: at something that's so weird and so amazing or so compelling.
Speaker 2: You just kind of go, yeah, I'm in a garbage
Speaker 2: jump again, and I'm just shooting stuff. But when I
Speaker 2: come back and I edit something together and people watch it,
Speaker 2: have never experienced that they're blown away, right, and so,
Speaker 2: and I think that's in a way a good thing
Speaker 2: and a bad thing, meaning you can get too comfortable
Speaker 2: with your own stuff after a while when you're in it.
Speaker 2: But then it's also good to also remind yourself that
Speaker 2: this is actually really special and trust that, trust that
Speaker 2: people will enjoy watching it in one way or another, hopefully.
Speaker 1: Yes, knowing that your audience for a film like Handcrafted
Speaker 1: is going to be a mix of people who are
Speaker 1: those hardcore folks that already know a lot about Disney
Speaker 1: history and people who are learning it for the first time.
Speaker 1: I wonder, when you're making this film, or even just
Speaker 1: when you're thinking about it after it's completed, what is
Speaker 1: the one thing that you hope that people take away
Speaker 1: from watching it.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, to me, it's a renewed appreciation for
Speaker 2: Walt Disney and for Disneyland, and that it was not
Speaker 2: inevitable like it was just this was something. This was
Speaker 2: something that was willed into existence by sheer determination and
Speaker 2: share die Hard just giving everything he had to this,
Speaker 2: his financial resources, his physical ability to get it done
Speaker 2: in Marshall, hundreds of people to rally behind this incredible
Speaker 2: dream that a lot of people were like, this is nuts.
Speaker 2: And so I think I think that sheer leadership and
Speaker 2: drive is what I hope will inspire people, you know,
Speaker 2: the most and say, you know what, if he could
Speaker 2: do that, I can do this, Like what am I doing?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And I think that's that's kind of the takeaway. I
Speaker 2: was joking about it before. It's like, well, what are
Speaker 2: we all doing? When are we living up to our
Speaker 2: full potential? When you see something like that at being achieved,
Speaker 2: you know. And and what's inspiring to me is that
Speaker 2: that was the DNA that has inspired all these parks
Speaker 2: around the world. And when I travel with these parks
Speaker 2: and I see people in China, people in Paris, and
Speaker 2: you know, people in Hong Kong, and and you know,
Speaker 2: at some point in the future, Abu Dhabi like there's
Speaker 2: people all over the world that have a great time
Speaker 2: at these parks, and they pilgrimage to these parks generation
Speaker 2: after generation, and that's very very rare. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe maybe in religious shrines and things like
Speaker 2: that you have pilgrimages, but this is like an entertainment pilgrimage.
Speaker 2: And the fact that people do this and have this
Speaker 2: excitement to bring their young kid at a certain point
Speaker 2: to experience Dizeyland for the first time, that's a gift
Speaker 2: that Walt gave to humanity, and that to me, is
Speaker 2: very very inspiring, and so I just hope that people
Speaker 2: come away with that that renewed appreciation of that anything
Speaker 2: is possible.
Speaker 1: It did make me feel that way and maybe want
Speaker 1: to delete all of the apps off my phone that
Speaker 1: are not doing anything but killing my time. Leslie, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for this. I so appreciate you spending
Speaker 1: this time with me today.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see what you do next, because
Speaker 1: I will be watching it as soon as I possibly can,
Speaker 1: because I've loved your work for a long time.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you would want people to know
Speaker 1: before I free you from this conversation?
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, I don't think so. I
Speaker 2: appreciate so much your your interest in this subject and
Speaker 2: just having watched the other projects and understanding the thread
Speaker 2: of my filmmaking interest in style, and it's just it's
Speaker 2: just a blast to be able to tell stories like this,
Speaker 2: and to work with Disney is obviously a gift to
Speaker 2: me as well with my family history. So it's it's fun.
Speaker 2: I like, I like the variation between Disney and real
Speaker 2: life and all sorts of different subjects, so it's fun.
Speaker 1: I love it. Thank you again so much, Thank you
Speaker 1: appreciate it again. I want to absolutely share my deepest
Speaker 1: thanks to Leslie for sharing her thoughts on filmmaking and
Speaker 1: history and the intersection of the two. I also want
Speaker 1: to make sure I shout out her entire team who
Speaker 1: worked really really hard to get this schedule nailed down.
Speaker 1: Disneyland Handcrafted is available now on YouTube and Disney Plus.
Speaker 1: I also have a bit of listener mail for this one. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is from our listener, Pamela and I love it
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons which will become immediately apparent.
Speaker 1: Pamela Rides Dear Holly and Tracy, First, thank you for
Speaker 1: the work you both do to share educational and entertaining podcasts.
Speaker 1: Yours is the show I have listened to the longest,
Speaker 1: as I'm sure is the case for many listeners. I
Speaker 1: often find a connection between your podcast and something in
Speaker 1: my daily life. It's always a great reminder that we
Speaker 1: are small part of a larger picture that existed before
Speaker 1: we were born and will continue after we are gone. Second,
Speaker 1: my husband and I recently tried a new to US
Speaker 1: restaurant and the drinksmen, you made me chuckle and think
Speaker 1: of you both when I saw orange cat behavior. This
Speaker 1: is the name of a drink and it's spectacular. I
Speaker 1: may try it next time. I went with moon Song
Speaker 1: for the rosemary in it, since the smash burger I
Speaker 1: ordered featured a seasoning blend with rosemary attached. For pet
Speaker 1: tax is a picture of Dixie, our three year old
Speaker 1: border Collie Pity Mixed Rescue and the sidewalk chalk portrait
Speaker 1: made by my eight year old son. Okay, Dixie is
Speaker 1: so cute and Dixie is curled up with a bunch
Speaker 1: of bluey toys, So this is like a multi hit
Speaker 1: dopamine situation for me. Yeah, and I had a dog
Speaker 1: named Dixie growing up, so this is the sweetest sweetest,
Speaker 1: don't think that I don't notice that there is one
Speaker 1: bluey and two Bingos in that picture, which is correct
Speaker 1: because Bingo is my my preferred character. This cocktail sounds amazing.
Speaker 1: Orange cat behavior is red wine, orange juice, ginger beer,
Speaker 1: and then delish. I know this sounds wild, but I
Speaker 1: bet it's really yummy. Again, it's like Cali mocho. Right.
Speaker 1: I went through a process as he read off the ingredients.
Speaker 1: I was like, red wine, cool, and then oh, intriguing,
Speaker 1: and then Okay, that sounds like it might be really good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think that could actually work, because I
Speaker 1: did the same process when I first read this email,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't oh no, it's probably
Speaker 1: a lot like Calimocho or tinted di Verano, which we
Speaker 1: talked about before, those being drinks that we had in
Speaker 1: Spain that mix wine and a soda of some sort
Speaker 1: or lemonade. Right, very delicious, sounds good. This entire cocktail
Speaker 1: menu is so fascinating to me and so creative that
Speaker 1: I'm like, do I need to go to this? Do
Speaker 1: I need to literally book a flight to go visit
Speaker 1: this thing? And then the chalk drawing is so cute
Speaker 1: because it is a picture of Dixie in chalk by
Speaker 1: their little and it's so sweet. I love it so much. Pamela,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing this with me. I do love
Speaker 1: the idea that an orange cat behavior is a drink
Speaker 1: that seems like a variety of disparate ingredients that make
Speaker 1: something pretty terrific, because that does sum up the way
Speaker 1: orange cats behave pretty beautiful. If you would like to
Speaker 1: write to us and share any interesting cocktails you find
Speaker 1: on menus, any pet pictures, any thoughts on episodes, any anything,
Speaker 1: you can do that at History podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1: If you would like to see this show notes to
Speaker 1: today's episode and any of our episodes, you can find
Speaker 1: them on our website Missed Inhistory dot com. If you
Speaker 1: have not yet subscribed to the show and you would
Speaker 1: like to, that's the easiest thing in the world to do.
Speaker 1: Is easier than sipping a delicious cocktail. You can do
Speaker 1: that on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History Class is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows