WEBVTT - Protecting Your Community In A Hostile State 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:09.719 Welcome to it could happen here. I am Robert Evans Uh, 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.960 and this is a podcast about things falling apart and 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.280 sometimes how to put them all together. And you know, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:17.880 today we're actually going to be talking more about the ladder, 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.840 which I know is revolutionary for us. We're usually just 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.640 kind of like getting way more into the duomer stuff. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.040 But I think there's been more than enough of that, 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.480 particularly in the wake of several horrific Supreme Court rulings 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.200 that I don't really need feel the need to go 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:32.919 into detail on, but one of the things that has 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.040 happened in the wake of these rulings this this like 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.720 kind of liberal reaction to the fact that to the 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.560 fact and they're right to be angry about the fact 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.839 that they're being essentially governed by a small minority of 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.520 people who are very densely geographically located in the South, 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.839 that is where like the bulk of the support for 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.600 the hard rights policies comes from, um and it's led 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:58.520 to this like fuck Texas, fun Florida. Fuck uh, these 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.560 these quote unquote like red dates, these regressive states, which 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.640 is this deeply problematic for a number of reasons, including 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.600 the fact that you know, if you just want to 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.000 look at it in terms of party politics. Uh, there 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.680 were more people who voted for a Democrat in Texas 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.520 in the election than live in either the state of 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.960 Oregon or Washington. UM. These are densely populated places with 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.320 tremendous amount of people who are people of color, who 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.520 are trans who are you know, in some way threatened 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.400 by this weird Cristo fascist bullshit that is increasingly clamping 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.080 down on the country. And so today I wanted to 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.679 talk with some folks who will live in and around 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.360 the Dallas, Texas what we call the df W area 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.640 Dallas Fort Worth, UM, and who have lately been organizing 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.360 to kind of both confront this, uh, this rising Christo 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.200 fascist like the street aggression portion of it, and to 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.720 provide support in defense um for people who are are 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.160 being victimized by it. So I'd like to welcome some 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.240 representatives of the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club to 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.760 the show. Hey, y'all, yeah, do to kind of introduce 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.240 yourselves to to start, however you'd like to be known 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:10.480 on the show. I'm Satan, I'm bubble Satan and bubble 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.840 um and how long have y'all been like doing? Because 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.120 there's there's two specific things that kind of I don't know, 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.720 I became aware of y'all and and we had some 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.840 brief interactions, right, It's some brief interaction with some of 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:31.400 your folks during the the snow thing that that destroyed everything, um, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.600 and so I've been kind of watching y'all socials ever since. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.240 And there were a couple of things recently that struck 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.959 me as very uh worth discussioning actions that you y'all 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:44.959 were a part of. One of them was there's a 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.720 neighborhood in Dallas called Oak Lawn that is kind of 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.120 colloquially known as the gighborhood. It is like the um, 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.800 the gay neighborhood in Dallas obviously, and so it's a 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.840 place that you know, even before kind of things got 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:01.480 a little easier after twenty um, it was kind of 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.000 a safe place and a little bit like of a 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.359 of a of a fortress for like people who are 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.600 not you know, straight and cist gender, which is and 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.320 kind of are you know, for for an idea of 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.440 how aspects of the df W area can be. The 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.320 town I grew up in, Plane, Oh, had a condoms 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.160 to go move in and within like two nights of 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.160 setting up shop and plane, somebody fired a nine millimeter 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.359 handgun through the window. Like it's not a it's a 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.800 place where it could be difficult. Um. And so obviously 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.560 repression and kind of violence and fears of vigilante violence 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.800 UM from folks who are queer has is understandably amped 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:42.440 up in the wake of everything that's been happening. And 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.960 y'all carried out an action where a sizeable group of 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:51.440 leftists marched armed through the gighborhood. Um. The one of them, 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.000 there were a couple of different chants that that I 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.840 was hearing. One of them was, um about bashing back 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:58.240 something like that. You want to talk a little bit 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:03.119 about like that action and what actually went to out. Um. Sure, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:07.040 So at the beginning of Pride Month, we had a 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:12.320 large group of fascists come to the gahborhood. Um, you know, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.200 they were shouting groomer, they were telling us the fist 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.960 of Christ is coming down on you soon, and um, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:24.560 you know, making really out their threats. So we discussed, um, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.680 you know, what we could do to be proactive to 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.719 make sure that doesn't happen again. Um, And we ended 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.560 up getting together some groups who were interested in an 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.239 armed demonstration, which even here in Texas is not something 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:43.200 you see too often. Um. And we decided to march 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.200 through the gahborhood. You know. Um, I would say a 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:52.679 majority of the people that we know are LGBT and 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.760 it's our neighborhood. So you know, we put on this 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.200 demonstration there and it was, you know, kind of incredible. 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.000 We got some looks, but we also got a lot 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:09.440 of support. Um, we had a lot of great chance. Um. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:16.760 You know, bottoms tops, we all hate cops. There we go. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.320 that was the that was the one that was in 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:23.440 the video. Um. And so what was the uh I'm 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.479 interested in kind of because I think this is the 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.520 kind of thing that is potentially very useful. We we 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.080 have seen. One of the things that I have personally 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.320 observed and that has been observed by a number of folks, 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.000 is that when these kind of right wing mobs who 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.279 primarily want people who cannot defend themselves, who don't have 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.039 the numbers to defend themselves, they want to like beat 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:45.680 the ship out of people in a gang, right Like, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.400 that's that's the proud boy thing, that's the Patriot prayer thing. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.640 That's all these weird little groups. Primarily what they want 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.320 to do. They don't want a fair fight, and when 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.320 they are confronted with organized people on the left who 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.080 are armed, that tends to scare the ship out of them. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.440 And if I'm not mistaken, during that day where you 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.760 had those Christian fascists kind of coming after um that 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:11.960 Queer family event, like one of the one of the 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:13.760 live streams that one of the right wingers had, people 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:15.600 were some of them were like commenting on the fact 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.719 that there were people leftist open carrying and like how 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.440 unsettling they found that. Um So, I'm interested in kind 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.560 of how the idea to we're gonna do this, have 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.839 this kind of a march, you know, through this neighborhood 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.640 we're going to make sort of a show beforce. How 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.680 that idea kind of came together? And then what logistically 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.360 did y'all like feel the need to set up, Like 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.880 I'm gonna guess it wasn't as simple as like hey, 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.960 everybody with a gun, like come come meet here and 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.040 we're gonna have us a walk. Um So, I'm interested 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.680 in kind of what the logistics are because I think 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.320 this is the kind of thing that people other people 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.120 are going to want like find useful to do, like 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.800 statements of we are here, we have the tools to 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.040 defend ourselves, and we're not going to just passively let 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.800 you run through our neighborhoods fucking with us. UM. I 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.680 think logistically one of the big things was just making 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.840 sure that you know, everyone who was carrying was carrying properly, 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.120 and then also to protect our own selves, making sure 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.320 that whoever was carrying was also protecting our identity by 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:22.120 wearing essentially full black walk UM, which that in itself 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.320 sends a message. You know, a bunch of queer people 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.400 marching through the streets of Dallas and full black walk 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.640 with guns UM sends a message like we're not going 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.400 to take your ship. We're done. You know you're not 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.200 gonna mess with our bodily autonomy. UM. That march happened, 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.840 We had planned it to be on that day originally, 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.800 and that happened to be the day that Roby Wade 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.320 was overturned UM, and it essentially just evolved that morning 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:56.200 to a more intersectional body bodily autonomy march. But really 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.720 logistically it was mostly about protecting ourselves and making sure 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.160 that people who weren't carrying the firearms were also protected 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.840 from our firearms. Yeah, I want to dive into that 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.240 a little bit because that's such an important aspect of it, 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.160 is the ensuring. Say, I have seen a lot of marches, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:15.880 and I will be honest, I've seen a lot of 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.880 people being armed on on both sides politically who have 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.880 done things with guns that I would consider reckless. Probably 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.400 the top moment in my mind is during a big 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.640 march in Portland somebody leaned over and a glock fell 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:30.440 out of the front pouch of their hoodie that they 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:35.240 were just head loose in there. Um yeah, um. So 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.480 obviously it is not as it should not be as 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.720 simple as like, you know, load up on guns and 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.440 bring your friends, so to speak. How do you attempt 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.360 to ensure like how like how do you actually go 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.400 about handling the safety aspect? Is it? Like? Are you 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.160 appointing essentially kind of like range officers? Before the march, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:54.640 we were keeping an eye on ship like what does 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.559 that actually look like? Um? I want to I want 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.720 to give two examples for the march we did the neighborhood. Um, 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.440 it was different in that it wasn't publicly announced wearing 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.280 um who was going to be. So it's kind of 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:13.280 by invitation only demonstration, so we knew pretty much everybody 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.200 that was coming, except for people in the neighborhood who 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.880 kind of joined ad hawk. UM. So that's one way 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.160 that we've done things. When we do more of like 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:29.200 uh protest security for other actions. UM. You know, there 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:33.480 are different people who will feel motivated to bring UM 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:38.440 arms and usually they know what they're doing pretty well. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.160 In a couple of instances where someone is being unsafe, UM, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:43.600 you know, one of us will just go over there 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.360 and talk to them, you know, like, hey, you you 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.360 really need a sling uh for this, or you know, 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.640 don't don't be uh pointing it in any way at 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.800 a building. UM. Just little tips like that too, you know, 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:10.760 resolve the behavior. So when it actually comes to like 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.440 uh because because one of the things like whenever you 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.480 have sort of a gathering like this is de escalation 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.640 and even within people within the march potentially like dispute 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.440 resolution and that sort of thing, what was the how 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.800 how did you kind of organize for that, Like what 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.240 was the planning on that? And like, um, I think 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.920 that's a really important question. One of the first things 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.360 that we decided pretty early on is that we are 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.400 not there to police any protesters. So you know, if 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.480 someone is is doing something illegal, uh, And no, at 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.959 no point where we you know, tell them to stop 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.040 or try to make them stop. We may move away 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.120 from the area or something like that, but we're not 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.959 there too police our people at all. When it comes 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.400 to like counters coming up in antagonizing, the main thing 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.200 we do is try to put ourselves between them and 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.640 any people they're targeting. Um. And you know, we have cameras, 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.400 we have less than lethal, we have different tools to 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:12.480 try to deescalate that. Yeah, And so when it comes 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.520 to like, uh, I guess training on that and did 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.319 you kind of did you have any sort of like 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.480 um um infrastructure, human infrastructure what not set up prior 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.520 to this to like make sure people who were like 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.280 doing de escalation were folks that you knew, you know, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.680 had some level of understanding of it, or folks that 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.480 you could trust. Like how was the actual how do 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.120 you actually because I mean it strikes me that there 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.720 is a great deal of like trust that's necessary to 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.640 put together something like this. To be able to meet 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.559 up with folks and and like march armed together requires 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.120 probably a little bit more in in the way of 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.760 of of trust than you know, just showing up at 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:53.720 a protest um that's kind of more conventional. Um. Was 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.280 there sort of some in any kind of like I 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.240 don't know, system or or like yeah, train or what 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.480 not that y'all had four specifically like how to behave 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.240 how to de escalate all that kind of stuff. Or 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:06.960 was it just like folks that kind of you knew 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.000 from from prior events were good at that sort of thing. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.440 I mean, as far as our group goes, UM, I 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.280 can speak for myself personally and say that I trust 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.200 each one of our people with my life. UM. And 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.440 I think because of that, and because we were really 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.040 the ones putting it on, like we knew that if 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.160 something were to go down, one of us would get 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.120 in the middle of it, and we all trust each other. 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.480 I think that in any sort of organizing environment, trusting 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.079 trusting the people that you're working with is one of 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.240 the most vital things that you can do because they're 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.959 going to be the ones beside you when a proud 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.080 boy rolls up, and you want the person beside you 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.880 to be someone that you can trust. UM, And we 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.440 do that. We do have you know, we we do practice, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.720 and we do train together, and um, we also have 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.959 fun together. And having that certain level of trust means 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.679 the world when you're putting yourself out there in that way. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.480 And how long of the folks that are kind of 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.640 like you, we're most affiliated with like making this happen. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.240 How long have y'all been sort of organizing and doing 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.360 stuff together. I would say most of us met, since 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.640 a lot of us met in organizing different facilities during 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.360 after the Droid Floyd protests and then through ye just 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:37.040 to boom in mutual aid that happened in DFW after that, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.120 whether it was through homeless outreach or uh, you know, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.080 bail bonds or however we met each other, it was 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.960 mostly through that mutual aid community and getting out in 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.520 the our communities and organizing ourselves and trying to find 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:58.040 like minded people who wanted to see the same change happened. Now. UM, 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.480 I think one of the uh, one of the things 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.920 that's been on my mind a lot lately, and that 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.160 that y'all particularly bring up, is the challenges of organizing 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.040 in parts of the country where not just you know, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.640 the police who are always pretty regressive, but the entire 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.960 legal structure is set up to as Florida has increasing 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.800 the dosal number states have done like punished protests, penalized 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:26.480 activism make things more dangerous for for for people who 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.280 are like going out there in public in addition to 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.440 doing things to try and criminalize you know, people who 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:38.200 are are are not uh straight, you know, white Christians. UM. So, 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.640 when you look at like kind of the challenges of 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.240 organizing in a place where it's more dangerous, and obviously 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.840 it's it's not particularly safe to be organizing against you know, 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.640 the l A p D. But the court system in 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:53.200 California is broadly speaking less stacked against you. Um So, 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.040 if you had advice to give to people who had 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.600 don't have this group of friends and people they've been 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.000 organizing with for a couple of years already, but they 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.920 want to have that, they want to build that in 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.040 their community, where would you suggest they start? Um? I 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.440 always tell people that it starts by showing up um 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.560 to all kinds of events, you know, supporting a broad 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.920 range of groups. And you know, if you're at the protests, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.640 if you are at the feedings, the distributions, um, You're 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.240 gonna meet people and you're gonna build trust um, mutual 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.040 trust there UM, so that you know, when you want 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:31.800 to start a project, you want to start a group, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.880 you'll have those people that know you. Um. It is 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.880 very dangerous. Uh. I think it's always important to tell 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.600 people to watch your op set. You know, don't be 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.320 re sharing all kinds of activists stuff with your personal 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.560 profile that has your name and your birthday and all 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.040 of that. But yeah, it really goes to meeting people 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:56.720 in person, I think. Yeah, And um, I mean that's 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.480 such a difficult part of it because I think for 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.160 a lot of people, particularly maybe are living in rural 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.960 areas who are living, um, kind of outside of places 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.760 that have well formed protest communities, social media and the 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.400 internet is is a lifeline for them and often in 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.640 a lot of cases like how they came to a 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.280 lot of the political beliefs in a desire to do something. Um. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.120 But you're right, like you can't. You have to actually 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.560 get like face to face on the ground with people 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.000 to actually build the kind of relationships that can lead 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:27.960 to the sort of activism that y'all are doing. And 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:29.880 that's that is a tough needle for a lot of 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.200 people to threat I think, and you know, in those 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:37.280 more rural communities, if there's not already those systems in place, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:42.960 you know, set up a monthly male distribution with the 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:47.160 local homeless shelter or the local homeless camp, and if 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.920 you you know, can get a few friends, more people 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.720 will show up and you can build that community yourself, 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.040 even where it's not existing already. UM. It's more about 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.720 just finding those like minded individuals that are are existing 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.320 in your community and getting to know your neighbors. Yeah. 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.560 I think to trust your neighbors. I think that's a 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.639 great as far as the plan of action goes as 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.080 good as you can get for at least starting down 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.560 that road. UM. Before we kind of move on from 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.640 this specific action, I did want to talk a little 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.720 bit about the conversations you had both with like people 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.560 who lived in Oaklawn and also with um, you know, 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.880 passers by. I'm wondering, like, UM, did you have any 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.000 that particularly surprised you or that particularly stick out to 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.320 you right now? I personally was a little bit more 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.760 surprised with the amount of support that we received. UM, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.520 just because while Oaklawn is the neighborhood is generally more 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:47.920 blue liberal, yes, part town, very anti gun typically, Yeah, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.600 very Yeah, to see you know, people sitting on the 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.520 patios of the bars carrying for us while we were 0:17:54.520 --> 0:18:00.320 walking by. Especially as someone who has been you know, 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.719 grown up in that area, it meant a lot. You know. 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.040 It really shows almost like the cultural shift that we're 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.160 going as far as let this politics go, if people 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.240 are going to be supportive of us. Yeah, that's really 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.320 interesting to hear. And now I were there, did you 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.879 have any kind of interactions with sort of I don't know, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.959 people who were who were more conservative or more on 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.640 the on the center right side of things. I think 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.720 we had a couple of people who were kind of 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.280 filming and frowning. It's always hard to tell. Yeah, in 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.600 that case, but no one really said anything to us. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:39.639 That's interesting. Yeah, And now that was that what that 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.560 kind of brings me to the next topic, which is 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.600 how how how did Dallas how to DPD handle this 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.960 um even hardly out of our cars and multiple police 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:55.880 cars surrounding us while we were just unloading UM. They 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.320 were constantly trying to guess where we were going with 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.560 the mark um by cutting off streets and trying to 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:09.199 like escort us and like you know, blocking traffic and 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.560 things like that. But but we were there less than 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:17.080 five minutes before I would say at least four police 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.119 cars were surrounding us asking us questions. They were pulling 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:26.919 out their guns like we were a threat. Geez. Um, well, 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.600 I mean, yeah, that's that doesn't surprise me. Um. Did 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.400 you have any kind of like direct is did they 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.160 send like the p I O s up to try 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.280 and you know, talk with organizers or whatever? Um? So 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.239 they did right at the beginning, and I think that 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:45.239 interaction went really well, um because they approached us as 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.760 we were getting ready, and they said, you know, what 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.800 group is this, Who's in charge, who's who's leading? What 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.680 are your plans? And you know, every single person who 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.159 was there was disciplined enough to either say nothing or 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.600 say no plans, there's no group, there's no leaders. And 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.080 you know after that, they kept their distance. They did 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:11.960 not really interfere more. Yeah, I mean that that is 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:17.840 one of those things, um, that police I don't know. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.040 I've always found it useful too when you are having 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.520 when you have to have an interaction with a police officer, 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:28.679 and um, sometimes it is unavoidable, like you need to 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:30.520 kind of focus on like what are the things that 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.280 they need to hear for this interaction to like end 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.280 um and d you know, not in them getting violent. Um. 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.520 And I think it sounds like, yeah, you you y'all 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.280 handled it perfectly, like that that was the right way 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.840 for everyone to react, like you were. It is Texas, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:47.879 Like it's not like it is at all illegal to 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.760 walk around with guns. Um. So yeah, I mean that 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.639 that sounds that sounds again I'm impressed by kind of 0:20:55.680 --> 0:21:00.000 both the boldness of the action but also the discipline 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.800 that that was required to actually that was required like 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.000 from the ground up right, not not because like there 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.560 was some sort of like vanguard leadership exerting force downward 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.840 in order to actually make this work safely and in 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.399 a way that that left hopefully and it seems like 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.000 this is the case people who live in the area 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.760 feeling broadly speaking pretty good about it. I would say that, 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.760 you know, since the march, in particular just in DFW 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.600 and its entirety, the support that we have received has 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:36.840 been almost overwhelming. Um. You know, people now recognize the 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.879 people in black Walk as being safe and they're going 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.119 to help us. If I need something, I can go 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:47.240 to them, and that's the whole purpose of community defenses. 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.439 Having Michael would be to have everyone be that person. 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.320 Now the other thing I would wonder because it's I 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.480 you know, I've spent a lot of time at black 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.480 block protests, but generally the in Portland, Oregon, where a 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.159 hot day is like eighty degrees, Um, y'all are in 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.040 fucking dfw UM. Those those summers are no joke. And 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.480 wearing the gear that y'all are wearing, is UM a 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.879 potentially dangerous thing? Right? Like was there was there? Was 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.439 it kind of individual or left up to affinity groups 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.439 to like figure out hydration and stuff, or did you 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.360 have people who are kind of watching folks and reminding 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:25.160 them and like trying to ensure that like that part 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:26.840 of it was handled. Because that does strike me as 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.800 a specific risk in this case, most of us do 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.280 have UM at least minor street medic training UM, as 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.399 well as our own hydration kits, and we all carry 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.560 extra electrolytes and things like that for people who may 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.760 not be part of our group who may also need assistance. UM. 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.280 That's the big part of it here in Texas is 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.359 that's that's the main risk with protesting the summer is 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:56.040