1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here. I am Robert Evans Uh, 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: and this is a podcast about things falling apart and 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: sometimes how to put them all together. And you know, 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: today we're actually going to be talking more about the ladder, 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: which I know is revolutionary for us. We're usually just 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: kind of like getting way more into the duomer stuff. 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: But I think there's been more than enough of that, 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: particularly in the wake of several horrific Supreme Court rulings 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: that I don't really need feel the need to go 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: into detail on, but one of the things that has 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: happened in the wake of these rulings this this like 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: kind of liberal reaction to the fact that to the 13 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: fact and they're right to be angry about the fact 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: that they're being essentially governed by a small minority of 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: people who are very densely geographically located in the South, 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: that is where like the bulk of the support for 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: the hard rights policies comes from, um and it's led 18 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: to this like fuck Texas, fun Florida. Fuck uh, these 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: these quote unquote like red dates, these regressive states, which 20 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: is this deeply problematic for a number of reasons, including 21 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: the fact that you know, if you just want to 22 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: look at it in terms of party politics. Uh, there 23 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: were more people who voted for a Democrat in Texas 24 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: in the election than live in either the state of 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: Oregon or Washington. UM. These are densely populated places with 26 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of people who are people of color, who 27 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: are trans who are you know, in some way threatened 28 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: by this weird Cristo fascist bullshit that is increasingly clamping 29 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: down on the country. And so today I wanted to 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: talk with some folks who will live in and around 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: the Dallas, Texas what we call the df W area 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: Dallas Fort Worth, UM, and who have lately been organizing 33 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: to kind of both confront this, uh, this rising Christo 34 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: fascist like the street aggression portion of it, and to 35 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: provide support in defense um for people who are are 36 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: being victimized by it. So I'd like to welcome some 37 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: representatives of the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club to 38 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: the show. Hey, y'all, yeah, do to kind of introduce 39 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: yourselves to to start, however you'd like to be known 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: on the show. I'm Satan, I'm bubble Satan and bubble 41 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: um and how long have y'all been like doing? Because 42 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: there's there's two specific things that kind of I don't know, 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: I became aware of y'all and and we had some 44 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: brief interactions, right, It's some brief interaction with some of 45 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: your folks during the the snow thing that that destroyed everything, um, 46 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: and so I've been kind of watching y'all socials ever since. 47 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: And there were a couple of things recently that struck 48 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: me as very uh worth discussioning actions that you y'all 49 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: were a part of. One of them was there's a 50 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: neighborhood in Dallas called Oak Lawn that is kind of 51 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: colloquially known as the gighborhood. It is like the um, 52 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: the gay neighborhood in Dallas obviously, and so it's a 53 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: place that you know, even before kind of things got 54 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: a little easier after twenty um, it was kind of 55 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: a safe place and a little bit like of a 56 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: of a of a fortress for like people who are 57 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: not you know, straight and cist gender, which is and 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of are you know, for for an idea of 59 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: how aspects of the df W area can be. The 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: town I grew up in, Plane, Oh, had a condoms 61 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: to go move in and within like two nights of 62 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: setting up shop and plane, somebody fired a nine millimeter 63 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: handgun through the window. Like it's not a it's a 64 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: place where it could be difficult. Um. And so obviously 65 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: repression and kind of violence and fears of vigilante violence 66 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: UM from folks who are queer has is understandably amped 67 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: up in the wake of everything that's been happening. And 68 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: y'all carried out an action where a sizeable group of 69 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: leftists marched armed through the gighborhood. Um. The one of them, 70 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: there were a couple of different chants that that I 71 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: was hearing. One of them was, um about bashing back 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: something like that. You want to talk a little bit 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 1: about like that action and what actually went to out. Um. Sure, 74 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: So at the beginning of Pride Month, we had a 75 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: large group of fascists come to the gahborhood. Um, you know, 76 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: they were shouting groomer, they were telling us the fist 77 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: of Christ is coming down on you soon, and um, 78 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, making really out their threats. So we discussed, um, 79 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, what we could do to be proactive to 80 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: make sure that doesn't happen again. Um, And we ended 81 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: up getting together some groups who were interested in an 82 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: armed demonstration, which even here in Texas is not something 83 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: you see too often. Um. And we decided to march 84 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: through the gahborhood. You know. Um, I would say a 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 1: majority of the people that we know are LGBT and 86 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: it's our neighborhood. So you know, we put on this 87 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: demonstration there and it was, you know, kind of incredible. 88 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: We got some looks, but we also got a lot 89 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: of support. Um, we had a lot of great chance. Um. 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: You know, bottoms tops, we all hate cops. There we go. Yeah, yeah, 91 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: that was the that was the one that was in 92 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: the video. Um. And so what was the uh I'm 93 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: interested in kind of because I think this is the 94 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: kind of thing that is potentially very useful. We we 95 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: have seen. One of the things that I have personally 96 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: observed and that has been observed by a number of folks, 97 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: is that when these kind of right wing mobs who 98 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: primarily want people who cannot defend themselves, who don't have 99 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: the numbers to defend themselves, they want to like beat 100 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: the ship out of people in a gang, right Like, 101 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: that's that's the proud boy thing, that's the Patriot prayer thing. 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: That's all these weird little groups. Primarily what they want 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: to do. They don't want a fair fight, and when 104 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: they are confronted with organized people on the left who 105 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: are armed, that tends to scare the ship out of them. 106 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: And if I'm not mistaken, during that day where you 107 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: had those Christian fascists kind of coming after um that 108 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: Queer family event, like one of the one of the 109 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: live streams that one of the right wingers had, people 110 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: were some of them were like commenting on the fact 111 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: that there were people leftist open carrying and like how 112 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: unsettling they found that. Um So, I'm interested in kind 113 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: of how the idea to we're gonna do this, have 114 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: this kind of a march, you know, through this neighborhood 115 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: we're going to make sort of a show beforce. How 116 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: that idea kind of came together? And then what logistically 117 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: did y'all like feel the need to set up, Like 118 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess it wasn't as simple as like hey, 119 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: everybody with a gun, like come come meet here and 120 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna have us a walk. Um So, I'm interested 121 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: in kind of what the logistics are because I think 122 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing that people other people 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: are going to want like find useful to do, like 124 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: statements of we are here, we have the tools to 125 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: defend ourselves, and we're not going to just passively let 126 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: you run through our neighborhoods fucking with us. UM. I 127 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: think logistically one of the big things was just making 128 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: sure that you know, everyone who was carrying was carrying properly, 129 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: and then also to protect our own selves, making sure 130 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: that whoever was carrying was also protecting our identity by 131 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: wearing essentially full black walk UM, which that in itself 132 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: sends a message. You know, a bunch of queer people 133 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: marching through the streets of Dallas and full black walk 134 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: with guns UM sends a message like we're not going 135 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: to take your ship. We're done. You know you're not 136 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: gonna mess with our bodily autonomy. UM. That march happened, 137 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: We had planned it to be on that day originally, 138 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: and that happened to be the day that Roby Wade 139 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: was overturned UM, and it essentially just evolved that morning 140 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: to a more intersectional body bodily autonomy march. But really 141 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: logistically it was mostly about protecting ourselves and making sure 142 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: that people who weren't carrying the firearms were also protected 143 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: from our firearms. Yeah, I want to dive into that 144 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: a little bit because that's such an important aspect of it, 145 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: is the ensuring. Say, I have seen a lot of marches, 146 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: and I will be honest, I've seen a lot of 147 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: people being armed on on both sides politically who have 148 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: done things with guns that I would consider reckless. Probably 149 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: the top moment in my mind is during a big 150 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: march in Portland somebody leaned over and a glock fell 151 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: out of the front pouch of their hoodie that they 152 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: were just head loose in there. Um yeah, um. So 153 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: obviously it is not as it should not be as 154 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: simple as like, you know, load up on guns and 155 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: bring your friends, so to speak. How do you attempt 156 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: to ensure like how like how do you actually go 157 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: about handling the safety aspect? Is it? Like? Are you 158 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: appointing essentially kind of like range officers? Before the march, 159 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: we were keeping an eye on ship like what does 160 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: that actually look like? Um? I want to I want 161 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: to give two examples for the march we did the neighborhood. Um, 162 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: it was different in that it wasn't publicly announced wearing 163 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: um who was going to be. So it's kind of 164 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: by invitation only demonstration, so we knew pretty much everybody 165 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: that was coming, except for people in the neighborhood who 166 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: kind of joined ad hawk. UM. So that's one way 167 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: that we've done things. When we do more of like 168 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: uh protest security for other actions. UM. You know, there 169 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: are different people who will feel motivated to bring UM 170 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: arms and usually they know what they're doing pretty well. 171 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: In a couple of instances where someone is being unsafe, UM, 172 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, one of us will just go over there 173 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: and talk to them, you know, like, hey, you you 174 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: really need a sling uh for this, or you know, 175 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: don't don't be uh pointing it in any way at 176 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: a building. UM. Just little tips like that too, you know, 177 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: resolve the behavior. So when it actually comes to like 178 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: uh because because one of the things like whenever you 179 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: have sort of a gathering like this is de escalation 180 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: and even within people within the march potentially like dispute 181 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: resolution and that sort of thing, what was the how 182 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: how did you kind of organize for that, Like what 183 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: was the planning on that? And like, um, I think 184 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: that's a really important question. One of the first things 185 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: that we decided pretty early on is that we are 186 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: not there to police any protesters. So you know, if 187 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: someone is is doing something illegal, uh, And no, at 188 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: no point where we you know, tell them to stop 189 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: or try to make them stop. We may move away 190 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: from the area or something like that, but we're not 191 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: there too police our people at all. When it comes 192 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: to like counters coming up in antagonizing, the main thing 193 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: we do is try to put ourselves between them and 194 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: any people they're targeting. Um. And you know, we have cameras, 195 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: we have less than lethal, we have different tools to 196 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: try to deescalate that. Yeah, And so when it comes 197 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: to like, uh, I guess training on that and did 198 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: you kind of did you have any sort of like 199 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: um um infrastructure, human infrastructure what not set up prior 200 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: to this to like make sure people who were like 201 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: doing de escalation were folks that you knew, you know, 202 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: had some level of understanding of it, or folks that 203 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: you could trust. Like how was the actual how do 204 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: you actually because I mean it strikes me that there 205 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: is a great deal of like trust that's necessary to 206 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: put together something like this. To be able to meet 207 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: up with folks and and like march armed together requires 208 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: probably a little bit more in in the way of 209 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: of of trust than you know, just showing up at 210 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: a protest um that's kind of more conventional. Um. Was 211 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: there sort of some in any kind of like I 212 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: don't know, system or or like yeah, train or what 213 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: not that y'all had four specifically like how to behave 214 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: how to de escalate all that kind of stuff. Or 215 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: was it just like folks that kind of you knew 216 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: from from prior events were good at that sort of thing. 217 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: I mean, as far as our group goes, UM, I 218 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: can speak for myself personally and say that I trust 219 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: each one of our people with my life. UM. And 220 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: I think because of that, and because we were really 221 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: the ones putting it on, like we knew that if 222 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: something were to go down, one of us would get 223 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: in the middle of it, and we all trust each other. 224 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: I think that in any sort of organizing environment, trusting 225 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: trusting the people that you're working with is one of 226 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: the most vital things that you can do because they're 227 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: going to be the ones beside you when a proud 228 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: boy rolls up, and you want the person beside you 229 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: to be someone that you can trust. UM, And we 230 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: do that. We do have you know, we we do practice, 231 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: and we do train together, and um, we also have 232 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: fun together. And having that certain level of trust means 233 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: the world when you're putting yourself out there in that way. 234 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: And how long of the folks that are kind of 235 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: like you, we're most affiliated with like making this happen. 236 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: How long have y'all been sort of organizing and doing 237 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: stuff together. I would say most of us met, since 238 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: a lot of us met in organizing different facilities during 239 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: after the Droid Floyd protests and then through ye just 240 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: to boom in mutual aid that happened in DFW after that, 241 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: whether it was through homeless outreach or uh, you know, 242 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: bail bonds or however we met each other, it was 243 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: mostly through that mutual aid community and getting out in 244 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: the our communities and organizing ourselves and trying to find 245 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: like minded people who wanted to see the same change happened. Now. UM, 246 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: I think one of the uh, one of the things 247 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: that's been on my mind a lot lately, and that 248 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: that y'all particularly bring up, is the challenges of organizing 249 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: in parts of the country where not just you know, 250 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: the police who are always pretty regressive, but the entire 251 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: legal structure is set up to as Florida has increasing 252 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: the dosal number states have done like punished protests, penalized 253 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: activism make things more dangerous for for for people who 254 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: are like going out there in public in addition to 255 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: doing things to try and criminalize you know, people who 256 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: are are are not uh straight, you know, white Christians. UM. So, 257 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: when you look at like kind of the challenges of 258 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: organizing in a place where it's more dangerous, and obviously 259 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: it's it's not particularly safe to be organizing against you know, 260 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: the l A p D. But the court system in 261 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: California is broadly speaking less stacked against you. Um So, 262 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: if you had advice to give to people who had 263 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: don't have this group of friends and people they've been 264 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: organizing with for a couple of years already, but they 265 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: want to have that, they want to build that in 266 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: their community, where would you suggest they start? Um? I 267 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: always tell people that it starts by showing up um 268 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: to all kinds of events, you know, supporting a broad 269 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: range of groups. And you know, if you're at the protests, 270 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: if you are at the feedings, the distributions, um, You're 271 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: gonna meet people and you're gonna build trust um, mutual 272 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: trust there UM, so that you know, when you want 273 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: to start a project, you want to start a group, 274 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: you'll have those people that know you. Um. It is 275 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: very dangerous. Uh. I think it's always important to tell 276 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: people to watch your op set. You know, don't be 277 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: re sharing all kinds of activists stuff with your personal 278 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: profile that has your name and your birthday and all 279 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: of that. But yeah, it really goes to meeting people 280 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: in person, I think. Yeah, And um, I mean that's 281 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: such a difficult part of it because I think for 282 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people, particularly maybe are living in rural 283 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: areas who are living, um, kind of outside of places 284 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: that have well formed protest communities, social media and the 285 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: internet is is a lifeline for them and often in 286 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: a lot of cases like how they came to a 287 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: lot of the political beliefs in a desire to do something. Um. 288 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: But you're right, like you can't. You have to actually 289 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: get like face to face on the ground with people 290 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: to actually build the kind of relationships that can lead 291 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: to the sort of activism that y'all are doing. And 292 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: that's that is a tough needle for a lot of 293 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: people to threat I think, and you know, in those 294 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: more rural communities, if there's not already those systems in place, 295 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, set up a monthly male distribution with the 296 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: local homeless shelter or the local homeless camp, and if 297 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: you you know, can get a few friends, more people 298 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: will show up and you can build that community yourself, 299 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: even where it's not existing already. UM. It's more about 300 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: just finding those like minded individuals that are are existing 301 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: in your community and getting to know your neighbors. Yeah. 302 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: I think to trust your neighbors. I think that's a 303 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: great as far as the plan of action goes as 304 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: good as you can get for at least starting down 305 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: that road. UM. Before we kind of move on from 306 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: this specific action, I did want to talk a little 307 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: bit about the conversations you had both with like people 308 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: who lived in Oaklawn and also with um, you know, 309 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: passers by. I'm wondering, like, UM, did you have any 310 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: that particularly surprised you or that particularly stick out to 311 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: you right now? I personally was a little bit more 312 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: surprised with the amount of support that we received. UM, 313 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: just because while Oaklawn is the neighborhood is generally more 314 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: blue liberal, yes, part town, very anti gun typically, Yeah, 315 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: very Yeah, to see you know, people sitting on the 316 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: patios of the bars carrying for us while we were 317 00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: walking by. Especially as someone who has been you know, 318 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 1: grown up in that area, it meant a lot. You know. 319 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: It really shows almost like the cultural shift that we're 320 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: going as far as let this politics go, if people 321 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: are going to be supportive of us. Yeah, that's really 322 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: interesting to hear. And now I were there, did you 323 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: have any kind of interactions with sort of I don't know, 324 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,959 Speaker 1: people who were who were more conservative or more on 325 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: the on the center right side of things. I think 326 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: we had a couple of people who were kind of 327 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: filming and frowning. It's always hard to tell. Yeah, in 328 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: that case, but no one really said anything to us. 329 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, And now that was that what that 330 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: kind of brings me to the next topic, which is 331 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: how how how did Dallas how to DPD handle this 332 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: um even hardly out of our cars and multiple police 333 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: cars surrounding us while we were just unloading UM. They 334 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: were constantly trying to guess where we were going with 335 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: the mark um by cutting off streets and trying to 336 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: like escort us and like you know, blocking traffic and 337 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: things like that. But but we were there less than 338 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: five minutes before I would say at least four police 339 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: cars were surrounding us asking us questions. They were pulling 340 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: out their guns like we were a threat. Geez. Um, well, 341 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's that doesn't surprise me. Um. Did 342 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: you have any kind of like direct is did they 343 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: send like the p I O s up to try 344 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: and you know, talk with organizers or whatever? Um? So 345 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,239 Speaker 1: they did right at the beginning, and I think that 346 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 1: interaction went really well, um because they approached us as 347 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: we were getting ready, and they said, you know, what 348 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: group is this, Who's in charge, who's who's leading? What 349 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: are your plans? And you know, every single person who 350 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: was there was disciplined enough to either say nothing or 351 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: say no plans, there's no group, there's no leaders. And 352 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: you know after that, they kept their distance. They did 353 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: not really interfere more. Yeah, I mean that that is 354 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: one of those things, um, that police I don't know. 355 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: I've always found it useful too when you are having 356 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: when you have to have an interaction with a police officer, 357 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: and um, sometimes it is unavoidable, like you need to 358 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: kind of focus on like what are the things that 359 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: they need to hear for this interaction to like end 360 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: um and d you know, not in them getting violent. Um. 361 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: And I think it sounds like, yeah, you you y'all 362 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: handled it perfectly, like that that was the right way 363 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: for everyone to react, like you were. It is Texas, 364 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: Like it's not like it is at all illegal to 365 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: walk around with guns. Um. So yeah, I mean that 366 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: that sounds that sounds again I'm impressed by kind of 367 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: both the boldness of the action but also the discipline 368 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: that that was required to actually that was required like 369 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: from the ground up right, not not because like there 370 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: was some sort of like vanguard leadership exerting force downward 371 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: in order to actually make this work safely and in 372 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: a way that that left hopefully and it seems like 373 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: this is the case people who live in the area 374 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: feeling broadly speaking pretty good about it. I would say that, 375 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, since the march, in particular just in DFW 376 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: and its entirety, the support that we have received has 377 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: been almost overwhelming. Um. You know, people now recognize the 378 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: people in black Walk as being safe and they're going 379 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: to help us. If I need something, I can go 380 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: to them, and that's the whole purpose of community defenses. 381 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: Having Michael would be to have everyone be that person. 382 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: Now the other thing I would wonder because it's I 383 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: you know, I've spent a lot of time at black 384 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: block protests, but generally the in Portland, Oregon, where a 385 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: hot day is like eighty degrees, Um, y'all are in 386 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: fucking dfw UM. Those those summers are no joke. And 387 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: wearing the gear that y'all are wearing, is UM a 388 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: potentially dangerous thing? Right? Like was there was there? Was 389 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: it kind of individual or left up to affinity groups 390 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: to like figure out hydration and stuff, or did you 391 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: have people who are kind of watching folks and reminding 392 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: them and like trying to ensure that like that part 393 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: of it was handled. Because that does strike me as 394 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: a specific risk in this case, most of us do 395 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: have UM at least minor street medic training UM, as 396 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: well as our own hydration kits, and we all carry 397 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: extra electrolytes and things like that for people who may 398 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: not be part of our group who may also need assistance. UM. 399 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: That's the big part of it here in Texas is 400 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: that's that's the main risk with protesting the summer is 401 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: the hydration heat exhaustion stroke. Yeah. You know, we do 402 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: recommend that the people who are in black block where moisture. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 403 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: Marino is your friend if you can get it. Yeah. 404 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: But you know, we all of us are you know, 405 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: at least trained enough to recognize those symptoms. We make 406 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: scenes that we can pass out to people, UM about 407 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: how to protest safely in the summer, in the heat specifically. 408 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: That's great, so much more dangerous. Now. One of the 409 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: things I've been seeing recently, and this is I'm guessing 410 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: from a more recent march, was that the photo going 411 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: around that's kind of kind of viral on right wing 412 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: social media of UM. It's a black and white photo. 413 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: There's uh an individual UM with a plate carrier and 414 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: an a r UM and another individual with UM like 415 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: a chest rig and what I think is a baretta 416 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: um carbine um and uh, both of them are at 417 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: a reproductive rights march. UM. And there's a mix of 418 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: really interesting reactions from the right like on this UM 419 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: and I'm in just didn't kind of yeah your thoughts there. Yeah, 420 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: so it's it's been really weird. UM. We try to 421 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: track whatever is being posted about us. UM. Sometimes they 422 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: can give us intel on people who might want to 423 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: target us. UM, but we've been noticing, you know, it's 424 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: like a solid third of right wing comments are kind 425 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: of broadly supportive. I think it really throws them for 426 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: a loop. Um. You know, we we've even seen people saying, actually, 427 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: bodily autonomy is a lot like gun rights and things 428 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: like that. It's been really weird. I think, um, being 429 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: armed might kind of humanize us for some of those 430 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: people in a way. It's it's been a weird thing. 431 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: I have thought a couple of times that, I mean 432 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: a number of times I talked about this on the 433 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: first season of It could happen here. I think that 434 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: there is some like potential to bridge some divides there 435 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: with kind of the existence of of a of an 436 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: increasingly prominent left wing gun culture. You know. One of 437 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: the comments I saw was somebody like going through the 438 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: gear displayed and being like, actually, no, they're they're reasonably 439 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: well set up, and like everything seems like this is 440 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: this is exactly how you'd you know, want to have 441 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: it done, and just people being like actually appreciative. And 442 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: I guess maybe there's a degree to which, like if 443 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: you're if you're in that community from a right wing side, 444 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: but not like a straight up fascist side. Maybe there's 445 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: a potential for like more commonality and like you said, 446 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: the idea that like, oh maybe some of them will 447 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: actually broaden their support for reproductive rights. Um, you know, 448 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: or at least consider it. You know, I don't know 449 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: that that doesn't strike me as like a negative move 450 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: and it it um is, particularly in a place like Texas, 451 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: you have to try to at least um have some 452 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: sort of common ground with people who are are more 453 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: on the right wing side of things, because they's so 454 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: damn many of them. Yeah, so I think, um, it's 455 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: one of those cases where when ideological where when ideology 456 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: gets atomized to just like guns good. You know, that 457 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: is like a core belief for some people. Yea, that 458 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: can draw them to being supportive of pro choice marches 459 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: in a in a weird way. It's it's kind of 460 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: a pretty specific kind of brain worms. But seeing it 461 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: a lot, Yeah, I wouldn't like call it necessarily a 462 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: positive like it's a it's an aspect of things that 463 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: are negative, but it's something that also can be like 464 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: useful and and potentially positive. Like even though if you 465 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: get into what's leading someone to like, Oh, I really 466 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: I re examined my beliefs on reproductive rights because I 467 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: saw some people marching with guns. That's not like a 468 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: sign of of a series of thought process that I 469 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: think is like wildly positive. But at least somebody maybe 470 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: came around on something better than going the other way. 471 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: You know, we've been talking about the effects of getting 472 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: all this right wing attention, and uh, you know, in 473 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: a way, that's what we want. We want to advertise 474 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: that we have strong community defense, and the flip side, 475 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: you get all these supportive comments and hopefully those people 476 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: don't want to kill me anymore. So it's just positive, 477 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: we think, Yeah, you're I mean, one of the ways 478 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: in which these kind of protests can increase security for 479 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: a community, Like one way is that maybe there are 480 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: people who will get scared off because they don't want 481 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: to risk like getting shot, And the other is that 482 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: maybe some people will re examine their opinions on that 483 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: community because it's now more familiar to them because there 484 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: probably way too into guns. But yeah, absolutely, so let's 485 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: talk about um. There there was a specific action um 486 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: that kind of the thing that was going around on 487 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: Twitter was these proud boys trying to get into it 488 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: believe it was a library, and like a line of 489 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: parents squaring off with them to like stop them. Um. 490 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about that. Yeah, that 491 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: was in McKinney. Um. It was the day after through v. 492 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: Wade got overturned, and we honestly didn't know what to 493 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: expect when we got there because of mcknny. We were like, 494 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: are we gonna be very much so outnumbered in this? 495 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: And when we arrived there was already about thirty to 496 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: forty people who were either parents or friends of the 497 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: library there in support and maybe only fifteen or twenty 498 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: people in opposition. Um. So it was, you know, a 499 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: pretty good welcoming, supportive environment. Um. And about thirty minutes 500 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: after we got there is when the Proud Boys arrived. 501 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: And we just really only had to tell two people, hey, 502 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: they're Proud Boys. And before I, before we could even 503 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: get over there to like block them off ourselves, there 504 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: were like eight to ten soccer moms in their flip flops, 505 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: Nike shorts and handmade signs standing in front of them 506 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: and blocking them from coming any closer. Um. And of 507 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: course they did get closer as people were leaving the 508 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: library and the event was ending and things like that, 509 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: but it was one of those things where it just 510 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: organically happened, and it was it was beautiful, like in 511 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: a place like McKinney, of all places like ip Texas, 512 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: like place I would expect to find, Like a soccer 513 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: mom in Nike shorts asked, like, thanking me for bringing 514 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: my gun to the library. Yeah, that's that's wonderful to hear. 515 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: I mean, and people who are not in the d 516 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: F w U area won't understand this, but like, yeah, 517 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: I spent a significant chunk of my early life in McKinney, 518 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: and I would not have expected that reaction there. Um, yeah, 519 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: that's really really good to hear. And it also is 520 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: you know. I'm I obviously have been supportive of a 521 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: number of tactics to confront fascism, including people showing up 522 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: in block and stuff and and protest or or or 523 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: confronting them physically. But I don't think there's any more 524 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: durable kind of community self defense than than that, than 525 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: than a than a group of people who are just 526 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: kind of live in an area and around and curious 527 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: realizing there's a threat and immediately acting against it, like 528 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: that's such a that's such a powerful thing. Yeah, saying no, 529 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: not in my neighborhood. And you know, again, like we 530 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: didn't expect to have that reaction, which made it that 531 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: much better when we saw it. And you know, having 532 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: those people for the first time in their life maybe 533 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: even can face to face correctly with fascists probably has 534 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: a lasting impact on them as well. Like I hope 535 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: that they keep going to more events like that and 536 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: keep going and protecting their community from these people. Now, 537 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: let me ask you, when you have these kind of 538 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: interactions with folks and when you had these specific interactions 539 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: with those specific folks, is there kind of is there's 540 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: sort of an information spreading thing afterwards? Is they're like, hey, 541 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: here's who we are, and like where you can find 542 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: out more about us, um like kind of attempts to 543 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: like let people know who you are and what you're 544 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: doing and how they can you know, follow you and whatnot. 545 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: Like is that a is that is that a part 546 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: of the activism or was it more just like we're 547 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: showing up to kind of provide a barrier for these 548 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: people and like that's not this is not the time 549 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: or place for that. It's a little bit of both. 550 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: A lot of these actions we are invited to, we 551 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: have kind of made it a point to be known 552 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: as we are here to help UM. So a lot 553 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: of times we will get invited or people will send 554 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: us an event and we will we do usually try 555 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: to get in touch with you ever's organizing the event 556 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: to make sure that they are comfortable with us, either 557 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: open carrying or what they prefer to can still carry 558 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: and things like that, UM, because it is still necessary 559 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: to be polite UM. But then also when we do, 560 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: we always meet people at these actions who are wanting 561 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 1: to get more involved than just that one time, and 562 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: we do have ways for them to get involved in 563 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: their community and learn from us. Obviously, Dallas is UM. 564 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: Its nickname for a long time has been the City 565 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: of Hate UM, and it is a place that is 566 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean the city itself is fairly blue, but there 567 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: is I mean, even within the Dallas area proper a 568 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of people who are like extremely conservative. Obviously, 569 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: I mean we I don't want to be harping on 570 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: this too much, but is there a degree to which 571 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: you are concerned about like attempts at at infiltration and whatnot? 572 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: Are attempts to yeah, like kind of like you know, 573 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: to do sort of the the fascist equivalent of what 574 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: a lot of anti fascists do with right wing groups. 575 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot of concern about that. Um. We just 576 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: you know, we do the best we can. We think 577 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: we've done a pretty good job already. Clearly, Yeah, very 578 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: careful with um, you know, who were who were in 579 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: contact with, who were working with. UM. We've had to 580 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, stop working with abusers a few times. That 581 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: is a tough one. We don't expand nearly as much 582 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: as we could, given all the people who want to 583 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: be part of this particular group. We believe more in 584 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, many strong groups and try to help people 585 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: do that. Um. But yeah, it's a tough struggle. Yeah, 586 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean that's a that's an interesting because I think 587 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: maybe a better question for me to ask is is 588 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: not like, how do you avoid that? But how do 589 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: you avoid like? Because because the if you look back 590 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: at the actual history of color Intel pro right and 591 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: the ship that like Hoover and his his goons were 592 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: saying to each other, like, the goal was not to 593 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: infiltrate every left wing movement. The goal was to make 594 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: people be so afraid of infiltration that they weren't able 595 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: to effectively organize, and so that that is I guess 596 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: kind of the real trick is this. Obviously there's a 597 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: degree to which you want to be on your guard. 598 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: You need to be careful. It's it's it's important to 599 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: be not just ethical, but but like responsible in your 600 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: op set. But you also can't let like fear of 601 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: that sort of thing happening just because you're you know, 602 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: kind of surrounded in a place like North Texas. You 603 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: can't let that fear stop you from from trying, right, 604 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: I think, Um, A big part of that is it 605 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: goes back to the trust thing. You know, we don't 606 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 1: really let people into the close folds until they've come 607 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: to a few actions with us and they've you know, 608 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: proven that they're not you know, spilling the beans all 609 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: over Twitter, and yeah that you know, we know who 610 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: they are and know what they're about, and then we 611 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: involved them a little bit more. Um, it's all about 612 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: building that trust with the people you're working with. It 613 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: just goes right back to that is, you know, trust 614 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: and filts over time. Um, and the longer we all 615 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: know each other, the more we trust each other and 616 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: then you know, we are able to have those conversations 617 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: about welcoming more people in and um, you know, setting 618 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: up the processes for that now has just on a 619 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: logistical standpoint, that kind of notoriety i'll have have gained 620 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: because of some of these actions. Has it sort of 621 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: led to like difficulty in terms of we we're dealing 622 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: with like so many much interest, so many people reaching 623 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: out to us, like how do you how do you 624 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: actually like organize kind of that, like how you how 625 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: you respond to people when ship goes viral? You know, 626 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: I I know how overwhelming that can be. Yeah, that's 627 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: been pretty new to us. Um. We've been more used 628 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: to being kind of your local crew that does things 629 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: no one ever talks about. And uh, having a larger 630 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: profile now is a challenge because we do know, you know, 631 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: attracting a lot more attend shin you know put some 632 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: constraints on us. Um, but I think that goes back 633 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: to why it's important to have a lot of different 634 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: groups doing a lot of different stuff. Um. You know, 635 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: you can't just have one uh group, uh doing all 636 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: the organizing that needs to be done in an area. 637 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: It's just a bad idea. You know, if a group 638 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: gets taken out for a variety of reasons. You don't 639 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: want everything to fall apart. Yeah, so I guess kind 640 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: of as we come to probably close to the end 641 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: of this where there were there are things that I 642 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: didn't get into that you wanted to talk to about 643 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: what y'all are doing and kind of what you want 644 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: other people know, particularly folks who I don't know we're 645 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: in in Louisville or and you know, fucking Idabelle, Oklahoma, 646 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: and UM kind of want to feel want to build 647 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: UM or at least help to help to protect their 648 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: community in a place that UM, there's additional challenges in 649 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: doing so. Yeah, I've seen that recurring events no matter 650 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 1: what it is, you know, book club distribution, if there's 651 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: a place that people can find you regularly, that's a 652 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: great way to have the kind of people you want 653 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: to meet, you know, just just walk up and talk 654 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: to you, UM for me what you know, watching your 655 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: ops set and also compartmentalizing your information, like if I 656 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: don't need to know something, I don't want to know it, UM. 657 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 1: And that's a good way to stay safe while also 658 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, being able to organize and take action because 659 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: like you said, earlier. The most important thing is the 660 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: will to do something. If you're just you know, the 661 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: safest thing you can do is stay in your basement, 662 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: But then no one will do anything. Yeah, exactly right. Um, 663 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: was there anything else either of you all wanted to 664 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: get into. I guess I also want to plug passing 665 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: on training. So whatever skills you have, we've taught, um, 666 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: medical stuff, how to do an oil change, um, how 667 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: to fire guns stuff, martial arts, you know, unarmed fighting 668 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: is also important. Um, share knowledge with each other, you know, 669 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: make each other more powerful in that way. Yeah, that 670 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: is a I think a great line to end on. Um, 671 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: thank you everybody else and um yeah, um you can 672 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: check out. Actually, you guys want to plug your your 673 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: your socials, you can follow me at bubble Break on 674 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: Twitter and um it's kind of out now, but you 675 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: can follow Anarco air softest we have trained on there 676 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: excellent and then of course Uhport John Brown Gun Club 677 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: on pretty much all platforms. Yeah. I never got into 678 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: TikTok either one of these days. All right, everybody, that's 679 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: the episode it could happen. Here is a production of 680 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 681 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 682 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 683 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources 684 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: for It could happen here, Updated monthly at cool zone 685 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.