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Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks

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Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome and Clay Travis here Wins

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Speaker 1: and Lost his podcast. We've already had Dan Wetzelan to

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Speaker 1: talk about his career, but amazingly, he didn't bring up

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was going to be an executive

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Speaker 1: producer on a wildly successful Netflix documentary about Air and Hernandez,

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Speaker 1: which has blown up in a huge way on the

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Speaker 1: front page of Netflix. U. I said on my radio

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Speaker 1: show out Kicked the coverage that I was out in

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Speaker 1: l A recently and I was on the elliptical in

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Speaker 1: the gym in the hotel, and there were two older women,

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Speaker 1: one other woman on an elliptical, another woman on walking

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Speaker 1: on a treadmill, and they both had iPads with them.

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Speaker 1: And I looked over kind of just glanced to my

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Speaker 1: left and my right. They're both watching the Air in

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Speaker 1: Hernandez documentary. Now I'm not an expert. They could be

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Speaker 1: the greatest NFL fans of all time. I could watch

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Speaker 1: every game all day long. But I think partly what

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Speaker 1: that's indicative of is this documentary Dan as we bring

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Speaker 1: in Dan Wetzel. You can find him on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Dan Wetzel, has not only appealed to sports fans, but

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Speaker 1: it's already gone well beyond sports fans. We talk you

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Speaker 1: right for and talk to a sports audience. I certainly

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Speaker 1: do the same. But you know, a story has really

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Speaker 1: popped when it moves beyond sports, And I feel like

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Speaker 1: this Netflix documentary about Aaron Hernandez that you're an executive

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Speaker 1: producer of has definitely done that already and it's only

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Speaker 1: been up for like a week at this point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean immediately, Um, it's it's it's not a sports doc.

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Speaker 1: It's there's a lot of sports in it. Um, he

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Speaker 1: you know he played football. You know. It's it's it's

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Speaker 1: also not fully a true crime doc. Um. It's also

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Speaker 1: not fully a family relationship doc or all the other

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Speaker 1: tangents in it. And that's I think why this thing

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Speaker 1: is so popular. There's some thing there for so many

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Speaker 1: different people that are interested in so many different things.

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Speaker 1: So we knew all along, Um, you know, the way

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Speaker 1: they were going to market it and stuff was not, hey,

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Speaker 1: here here's a this isn't a thirty for thirty right,

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Speaker 1: this is Netflix, this is Netflix front page. This is

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Speaker 1: a totally different Um. It's just, quite honestly, just this

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Speaker 1: massive audience and the idea is to get as much

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Speaker 1: of it as possible. Um. So you know, the fact

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Speaker 1: you played football is obviously prominent there that you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of money spent on all the highlights

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Speaker 1: and getting all that. We talked a lot of football,

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Speaker 1: but it's you know, it goes, it just goes beyond that.

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Speaker 1: And um, and that's why I think you're seeing this.

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Speaker 1: So I wasn't surprised by that. Were one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I covered the Aaron hern and his trial and

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Speaker 1: very few people in sports did or ever stopped caring

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Speaker 1: audience of the of true crime. I mean, there's just

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Speaker 1: a massive true crime interest out there. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: before Donald Trump was president, they used to do true

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Speaker 1: crime every night, well even parts of like the Bill

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Speaker 1: O'Reilly show, like Fox News, and they used to do

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Speaker 1: true crime all the time. They follow these these trials,

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Speaker 1: the Jodi Arias or Lazy Peterson memories like this, random

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Speaker 1: people Casey Anthony, like the stories would blow up and

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Speaker 1: become major you know, international, international even um stories as well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was it, none of it. They do nothing.

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Speaker 1: It's politics, and which you know, some of us find

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Speaker 1: completely boring. Um, some don't. Obviously this is that's their business.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like the true crime fans went away right,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them moved to podcast honestly, because

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Speaker 1: the True crime podcast is one of the most wildly

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Speaker 1: popular in the entire podcast universe. So I want to

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Speaker 1: circle around here because I'm fascinated on so many levels

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Speaker 1: about this documentary, which I watched three hours straight. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna ask you all sorts of interesting questions,

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Speaker 1: but I want to start with the process of how

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Speaker 1: a documentary like this gets made. You mentioned that you

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Speaker 1: covered both of these trials, Aaron Hernandez is Odin Lloyd

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Speaker 1: trial as well as the double murder trial that was

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Speaker 1: in Boston. Um. But so you cover these trials, at

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Speaker 1: what point do do you start thinking, Oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a book, Oh this is a movie. What is the

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Speaker 1: process by which you and for people out there who

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Speaker 1: may not be familiar, but I bet a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are gonna be watching this and and probably people

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Speaker 1: will be listening to this for the next several months,

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Speaker 1: next several years potentially, as this documentary continues to percolate

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Speaker 1: out there. Uh, you are one of the talking heads

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Speaker 1: in the course of this documentary. But how does it

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Speaker 1: come about? How did you become an executive producer? How

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Speaker 1: does Netflix end up with this documentary? I know nothing

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Speaker 1: about this world explained to me how a documentary like

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Speaker 1: this is made. Uh, well, so, you know I'd covered

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Speaker 1: her hand as a little bit of Florida more at

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Speaker 1: the Patriots, but that was just football, right. I talked

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Speaker 1: to people like you ever talked to him like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did, but I you know, I asked him about,

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Speaker 1: you know, to touch that I did not know to

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Speaker 1: ask about. Yeah, your state of mind at the double homicide. Um,

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Speaker 1: once the story broke obviously is huge, right Aaron her

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Speaker 1: hand as suspect, and then the evidence starts coming out

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Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, this crazy thing, so start

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Speaker 1: covering it from from pretty much at that point on,

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Speaker 1: and you know, on top of the whole time, obviously

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Speaker 1: I've been go to Bristol, go to Boston to do

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Speaker 1: the How many days did you in court like watching

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Speaker 1: this trial total? If you had to guess I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first one is about eight weeks, the

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Speaker 1: second one was maybe six. I don't know. I didn't

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there every day. Uh, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: snow for the first one, I don't know, like a

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Speaker 1: lot most of them, Like I would say maybe three

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Speaker 1: orders of those trials, you spent in the in the

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Speaker 1: courtroom watching the yeah, and not just watching the trial,

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Speaker 1: but talking to other people. When you're in a courtroom,

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Speaker 1: they're they're not very big. Usually, Um there's three rows.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the bun in Boston is pretty big. That's probably

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Speaker 1: like six orrows. I mean there's seventy people in there.

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Speaker 1: You're there all day. You know, there's you know, they

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Speaker 1: have a jury, you know, breaks to recognize everybody who's

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Speaker 1: in the room. Pretty much everybody, whether it's on the

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Speaker 1: record or in front of a camera, you pretty I mean,

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Speaker 1: you meet Jayanna Jenkins, you meet the mother in some way,

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Speaker 1: you just do because you're just all in close proximity. Right,

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Speaker 1: bathroom we all go to the bathroom, right, So you

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Speaker 1: meet all the people. So you just get so much material.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, during the first trial, in which was down

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Speaker 1: in Fall River, Massachusetts, is outside of Boston's kind of

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Speaker 1: small city sort of it's not quite between Providence in Boston,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of like that. Um. Yeah, Kevin Armstrong

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Speaker 1: was covering the Who's also in the Dock and as

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Speaker 1: an executives he's covering it for the New York Daily News. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's coming up from New York every week and we

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Speaker 1: are sitting in uh there's a little diner and where

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Speaker 1: this I'm just like, there's just so much here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is just this case has It's not just the

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Speaker 1: daily stuff, but like the relationship between the two sisters,

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Speaker 1: you know, the way the prosecutions doing this, Uh, the

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Speaker 1: situation between the mother and and and Aaron, just all

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Speaker 1: these different things and we're like, I can't get all

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Speaker 1: this into daily coverage. Just impossible. So we're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we should do a book. I think this is a

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Speaker 1: book in a movie, this is whatever. So at that

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Speaker 1: point we start kind of working on the process. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're never able to get the book done. Um, we

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Speaker 1: can never get a book deal, oddly, Um, but we

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Speaker 1: were able. We did hook up with a company, uh

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Speaker 1: through my through our my agency endeavor uh uh called

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Speaker 1: blacks Fan out of New York and Geno McDermot. He's

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Speaker 1: the director and an an executive producer. So he jumps

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Speaker 1: in basically for the second trial, and we started interviewing.

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Speaker 1: We start doing a lot of interviews and all of that.

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Speaker 1: Now at this point Hernand is still alive and we

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Speaker 1: don't know he's going to get acquitted. Is all sorts

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Speaker 1: of stuff still to come. But we just knew, you know,

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Speaker 1: just like keep filming right and um, you know it's

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Speaker 1: a long process. I mean, we had pitch meetings with everybody.

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Speaker 1: Everybody turns you down. You have another round of pitch

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Speaker 1: meetings and everybody turns you down. I mean it's just

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Speaker 1: a very hard process. Um. We made a documentary of

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Speaker 1: like a film, a ninety minute film. Uh that got

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Speaker 1: into the New York New York Doc Festival in uh,

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Speaker 1: like Chelsea and I had a couple of showings, got

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Speaker 1: really good reaction from the public. Uh. And that brought

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Speaker 1: as I as I recall it, that brought Netflix back

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Speaker 1: to the table. Now Netflix comes in, they buy it.

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Speaker 1: They have so much you know, we we ramp it

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Speaker 1: up even more, um and do more interviews, more stuff.

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Speaker 1: They have an incredible Uh. We work with a group

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Speaker 1: Angus Wall out of l A. And this this company

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Speaker 1: called Rock Paper Scissors and make make it's all these

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Speaker 1: tremendous like because you know, the story very fascinating, but

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Speaker 1: to make a dock you need the cuts and the

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Speaker 1: music and the score, you know, all that stuff that

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Speaker 1: makes a show compelling. And so they come in and

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Speaker 1: put you know, a lot of resources behind it, and

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Speaker 1: uh and then here we are. So it was the process,

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Speaker 1: but we got turned down by everybody man over and over.

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Speaker 1: And what has Netflix told you about viewership? I know

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Speaker 1: they kind of keep this stuff kind of close to

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Speaker 1: the vest. But in the first and we're talking within

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Speaker 1: the first week that this thing has been up just

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Speaker 1: just but based on what you see on for instance,

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Speaker 1: social like I'll just tell you this, like so a

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Speaker 1: lot of it's anecdotal. But I said yesterday I talked

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Speaker 1: about it on my Periscope Facebook show and I just said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, there's several thousand people who

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Speaker 1: were watching, you know, me talk about that live, right,

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Speaker 1: how many it's just say yes if you've watched this documentary,

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Speaker 1: and like the whole screen is just all yeses right,

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Speaker 1: And yesterday on my radio show, I said, I'm just

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Speaker 1: kind of curious. Uh, let just come on, go on

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Speaker 1: my Twitter page and just say yes, if you've watched

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Speaker 1: this Air in Hernandez documentary. And immediately hundreds of people

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Speaker 1: go to my Twitter Twitter page and say like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I've watched it, right, Like um, and so have you

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Speaker 1: kind of gotten that that read early on? It's still

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Speaker 1: early in terms of its distribution. But have you noticed

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Speaker 1: on your social media feed people that you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're Dan Wetzel from the documentary, things like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, to have your show as the prime

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Speaker 1: show on Netflix, it's the biggest thing in entertainment. Let

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Speaker 1: me just I think it just this, there's not that

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Speaker 1: many people going to the movie theater that they're that

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Speaker 1: They're just go on Netflix every night to see what

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Speaker 1: there is. And so here's this thing that's a very

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Speaker 1: compelling story. And again it speaks to all sorts of

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Speaker 1: different angles. Right, you've got football, you've got the true crime,

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Speaker 1: you've got betrayal, you've got loyalties, you've got guns, you've

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Speaker 1: got you know, drugs, I mean, you got it all.

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Speaker 1: This is the this is an American story man, and

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Speaker 1: so boom, here it is. And there was a point

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Speaker 1: we sat there, we were texting Gino and Kevin and

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Speaker 1: I on the Tuesday night where like this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, like I wonder what's gonna happen

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Speaker 1: to mar There was another point like the next night,

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Speaker 1: the first night it came out, and you could go

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Speaker 1: on Twitter and just type in Aeron Hernandez, now nothing

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Speaker 1: has happened in the air in her natives, and then

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Speaker 1: just scroll hit latest and there would be five six

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Speaker 1: comments a second. Yeah, it was just like every second

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Speaker 1: there's just boom boom boom, boom, boom boom. I'm watching this.

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Speaker 1: I'm watching this. Oh my god, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: or you know and and the you know, why are

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Speaker 1: they're making it? It could be anything, right, but all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden and it was the number one trending

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Speaker 1: topic on Twitter, which you know isn't representative of the

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Speaker 1: real world. But when you're on the front page of

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Speaker 1: evidence that a lot of people are watching on the

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Speaker 1: day they handed the indict of the impeachment down on

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Speaker 1: the President United States, yeah there's the number one trending topic,

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Speaker 1: you know, and on a case that nothing's happened, there's

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Speaker 1: no breaking news. The entire breaking news is that Netflix

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Speaker 1: released the documentary. It's not like new evidence or you know,

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Speaker 1: something comes up and it was like, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: like all right, everyone's watching this thing, and it's like

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Speaker 1: and it's just kind of exploded. So it's a it's

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Speaker 1: an incredible story. It's in and you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: a fascinating story. It's a sad story. It's a few

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Speaker 1: redeeming qualities to it. It's terrible. But from the start,

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Speaker 1: I've always said, you know, people would say, why are

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Speaker 1: you covering this thing? I left. I left the super

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Speaker 1: Bowl in midweek to go to the opening arguments of

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Speaker 1: the first trial, and then came back to the super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's like, why are you leaving the super Bowl? Like

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Speaker 1: the story is, there's a super Bowl every year. I've

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Speaker 1: never seen this thing. So let's go into the documentary

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Speaker 1: itself and and the way the story is told. The

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Speaker 1: most riveting part of the documentary to me is the

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Speaker 1: jail house phone conversations that are all taped where you

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Speaker 1: can hear. You don't obviously get to sit and have

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Speaker 1: an interview with Aaron Hernandez. You see him in trial.

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Speaker 1: He's a huge part of this story. But other than

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Speaker 1: you know, like archival footage and interviews with him. The

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Speaker 1: part of the documentary that brings him alive is these

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Speaker 1: jailhouse conversations with several different people, his fiance and his daughter,

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Speaker 1: which are heartbreaking, his mom, which is just unbelievable, Uh,

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Speaker 1: their relationship, and the way those conversations would go, his agent,

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Speaker 1: who basically sounds like a typical agent, and some of

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Speaker 1: his friends, uh, you know and uh and former teammates

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Speaker 1: who who make appearances on these I never really thought

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Speaker 1: about it, but all of these are are archived and taped.

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Speaker 1: How do you go about hearing those? How many hours

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Speaker 1: of footage did you guys go through to end up with?

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Speaker 1: However many minutes you used in the documentary? Well, I

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Speaker 1: agree that they're the key to the documentary. To me,

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Speaker 1: first of it does bring Errand's voice in. I think

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Speaker 1: of viewer, would you know, fault anybody for not like?

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Speaker 1: Why don't you you know that's the holy that's the

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Speaker 1: holy crap moments? To me, that happened most for you,

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Speaker 1: Like I knew the story from the having read your

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Speaker 1: columns and obviously followed this story, but hearing his conversations

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Speaker 1: with the people closest to him. That was the Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe this is real. They're more

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Speaker 1: powerful than an actual interview because an interview, he's not

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Speaker 1: going to talk like that. I didn't know the level

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Speaker 1: of you know, discord between he and his mother right now,

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Speaker 1: you knew there was there was attention there. People would

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Speaker 1: tell you that because you know, after his father died.

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Speaker 1: It's just there's there's a there's a falling out. Right.

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Speaker 1: She seems like an awful human being in this documentary.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I don't you know she she sounds

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Speaker 1: however she sounds. Just say that. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: were a parent, let's just put it this way. If

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Speaker 1: you were a parent and you went back and listen

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Speaker 1: to your conversations with your kids, and granted this is

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Speaker 1: not the sum total of it, right, these are excerpts,

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Speaker 1: but if you heard your conversation and it sounded like that,

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Speaker 1: you would be like, I'm the worst parent who's ever lived, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to get out of bed if

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Speaker 1: if that's what I sounded like talking to my son

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Speaker 1: on a documentary, Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's the the

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Speaker 1: emotion and the rawness of those obviously, are are are

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Speaker 1: pretty incredible, and you you add because of that, you

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Speaker 1: are able to really add an understanding that of all

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Speaker 1: the different things, you know, our our our challenge was

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Speaker 1: to try to explain Aaron Hernandez without excusing her in

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Speaker 1: her hand, I was We're very tried to be extremely clear.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Hernandez made these decisions. Aaron Hernandez ruined people's lives,

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Speaker 1: ended people's lives, ruined people's lives who did not know

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Speaker 1: him and those who did know him. He was an

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Speaker 1: absolute wreck to what he did to so many people.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, we just kind of tried to

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Speaker 1: spend as much time as possible honoring the victims and

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Speaker 1: making Odin Lloyd you know more than just a name,

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Speaker 1: and severa Fertado and Daniel de Bray and more than

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Speaker 1: just a name. Right, I killed this guy, But let's

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Speaker 1: focus on the star. Well you know what these guys

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Speaker 1: are stars do it. And so I don't know where

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Speaker 1: we were with that, But so interview explaining to explain him,

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Speaker 1: you get an explation. You realize the the relationship with

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Speaker 1: his mother is is dysfunctional, right, And I mean he's

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Speaker 1: literally saying it. He's like I can't talk to you.

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Speaker 1: It's basically, I want to tell you who I am

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Speaker 1: and I can't trust you and all the different things.

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Speaker 1: So you would never get that in an interview. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's no way he's going to say that type of

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Speaker 1: stuff or she's you know, so to get those kind

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Speaker 1: of those things. And then other part I thought was

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Speaker 1: really interesting from the conversations is here's a guy. He

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Speaker 1: fooled everybody in his life. Nobody really knew the whole

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Speaker 1: air in Hernandez. They might know this part about him,

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Speaker 1: they know this part whatever, it doesn't seem like anybody

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Speaker 1: really knew him fully. And if you listen to the conversations,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many there are. He is a

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Speaker 1: different tone of voice, in a different way of talking

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Speaker 1: to every single person. He's just a totally different guy

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Speaker 1: when he's talking to one or the other. And I

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Speaker 1: get some of that, Okay, you're not gonna talk to

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Speaker 1: your mom like you can talk to his college buddies,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, remembering some like funny time. But

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Speaker 1: it's a different tone of voice. It's a different part.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everything is different. And that part, to me

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Speaker 1: was pretty pretty fascinating because the true thing is like,

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Speaker 1: who is Aaron Hernandez. I don't know that anyone knows.

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Speaker 1: And that's why throughout his life he stunned people with things,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the way down to his death. Where

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Speaker 1: the people who are talking to him the day before

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Speaker 1: he dies or like he couldn't have done it. He

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not plausible. His own attorneys and fiance

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Speaker 1: like he didn't commit suicide. He did, he just never

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Speaker 1: gave anybody the full story. Be sure to catch live

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Speaker 1: editions about Kick the Coverage with Clay Travis week days

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Speaker 1: at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking to

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Speaker 1: Dan wetzlis wins and lost his podcast about the Air

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Speaker 1: in her and as documentary up on Netflix. So, um,

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Speaker 1: back to the jailhouse recordings. I didn't. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know that you could get those right and that they

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Speaker 1: transcribed them all and that they keep them all and

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Speaker 1: that they're accessible to other individuals. Did you know that, Like,

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Speaker 1: how did you come about discovering that those were out

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Speaker 1: there and that you could use them in a documentary?

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Speaker 1: I knew. Um, it's they don't always give them out

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Speaker 1: the bump the police. I mean, if you ever call

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Speaker 1: a jail or have someone call, they'll say you're called

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Speaker 1: being recorded. Yes, right, so you know, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: like calling the you know whatever, You call the electric

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Speaker 1: company and they say they were called being recorded. You

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Speaker 1: don't kind of just think about it. But um, generally

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Speaker 1: you're not going to get them out publicly because there

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Speaker 1: are appeals and different things. Because so if he hadn't

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Speaker 1: killed himself, you wouldn't have had the ability to get

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Speaker 1: these I don't know you file. Um, it's very tricky.

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Speaker 1: Freedom information acts are very tricky and to be a

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Speaker 1: long legal process. Um. And we weren't the only ones.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of me particularly the Boston Globe did

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Speaker 1: Yeoman's work on this and to get the some of

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Speaker 1: the calls, we did not have every call they ever made.

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Speaker 1: It any way, I think there were like nine phone

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Speaker 1: calls or something like that. Um, So, you know, but

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Speaker 1: it is a it is a difficult process to get

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Speaker 1: that kind of information. But it's it's a public it's

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Speaker 1: public record, and at least in Massachusetts we were able

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Speaker 1: to get We're gonna to get him and um, but

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Speaker 1: I my guess is that they would have been denied

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Speaker 1: if he's appealing, because they're part of evidence in a case.

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Speaker 1: Um but clearly, I mean the police listen to everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on on those calls because there they literally

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Speaker 1: are shaping their strategy on it. They're looking for codes,

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Speaker 1: they comb over it, you know, especially you know when

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Speaker 1: they're he's talking to to whatever. I mean, Let's say

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Speaker 1: there was a jailhouse call where he kind of insinuate

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Speaker 1: something about like Shayanna in that box, like hey, you

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Speaker 1: know he did solid. It's just anything that they could

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Speaker 1: then use as evidence. So never talking to anyone in jail,

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Speaker 1: dear listener, Uh yeah, watch watch what you're saying. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I think that's it. But they were, to me

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Speaker 1: the most important part of of making taking this to

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Speaker 1: the next level of of of of storytelling. Now you

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Speaker 1: don't hear from Tom Brady, you don't hear from Tim

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Speaker 1: Tebow obviously, the two quarterbacks who were most closely associated

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Speaker 1: with Aaron her Nandez both when he was at Florida

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Speaker 1: Gators and then also with the New England Patriots. But

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Speaker 1: you hear from him in interviews archival as they're asked

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Speaker 1: about it in uh, in real time as these stories developed.

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Speaker 1: Even here, a pretty incredible outtake of Rob Gronkowski being

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Speaker 1: asked about him, where like he basically threatens to end

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Speaker 1: the conversation. Uh in the interview, Uh if if they

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Speaker 1: asked him about it. I'm assuming you guys went out

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Speaker 1: and said and tried to get interviews with other team mates.

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Speaker 1: But you get a couple of the guys that people

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Speaker 1: really don't know that well who would sit and talk

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Speaker 1: about him. How many people did you request and how

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Speaker 1: many knows did you get from the NFL universe and

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Speaker 1: the college football universe surrounding eron Hernandez. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know because I wasn't the only person working on that,

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Speaker 1: so I wouldn't know how many. But you know, not

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Speaker 1: and they're not a lot of Yes, there's not a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are dying to attach themselves to

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Speaker 1: Aaron Hernandez. And you know, I one time I asked Tebow.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to Tebow about something else and I

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Speaker 1: asked him about it, and he was pretty good about

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Speaker 1: you know, just you know, he had he had an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing and he said, um when So when he

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Speaker 1: was at Florida, he's you know, almost every day he'd

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Speaker 1: go to like the children's hospital, like after practice or

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Speaker 1: to some kind of out amazed Tebow, right, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: and and he said, I don't I think the player

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Speaker 1: who came along. I would try to get people to

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Speaker 1: comedy because I think the player who came the most

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Speaker 1: was Aaron Hernandez. You know, like there's this kind heart

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Speaker 1: who like, I don't He's like, I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think in fairness, you know, that would have been

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Speaker 1: I would have been incredible if Tibo had said that

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Speaker 1: on the documentary, right, Like, I don't believe. It just

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Speaker 1: goes to it just goes to what you're saying, which

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Speaker 1: is what a chameleon he is, right, who is this guy? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So he's over there, uh with the with the sick

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00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: kids at the Gamesville hospital with Tebow and uh. But

427
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: then you know this is what he became. He I

428
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: don't know how much Tom Brady knew him, you know,

429
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: like football is are weird. They worked together, but not

430
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: it's a weird sport. It's a weird locker room. Um,

431
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: there's a long offseason. It's not like you're traveling together

432
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: all the time like in baseball or something. And even

433
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: then it's like, I don't I don't blame them. And

434
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: then I think there's a part in there where like

435
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: UM's the goatist his high school friend, Um Um who

436
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: you know really was his friend his whole life, not

437
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: not the not saying Susy and his dad, but the

438
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: other guy. And he's like, I was kind of worried

439
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: about stuff with Aaron, but you know, and I've never

440
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: heard him before, no, you know, And I think anybody

441
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: who saw her nand as or if you were like,

442
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, you might be like a guy might be

443
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: partying too much, or that guy you know, I don't know,

444
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: you might think, you know, if he doesn't straighten up,

445
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: he you know, maybe there's a d u I maybe

446
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: there's a bar fight. You know, the stuff you hear

447
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 1: every day on the on you know, here's the updates

448
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: so and so from the Vikings was arrested. You know,

449
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: you're not sitting there going boy, I think I think

450
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: hernandd you know it was involved in a drive by shooting,

451
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, or that if he doesn't change the way

452
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: he acts a little bit killer, Yeah, he's gonna he's

453
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: gonna execute someone in a field there house like you know,

454
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: like the crimes are in hindsight. Everyone looks back us,

455
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: Oh they should have seen this come. How could you

456
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: ever see this coming? Like this is so beyond and

457
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: in the building, like you know, everybody, every teammate. I

458
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: have spoken to everyone who has They've done other interviewers.

459
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: People don't want to necessarily sit down and be the

460
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: face on a Netflix documentary and I totally get it,

461
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: but they, oh, you know, the guy showed up on time,

462
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: He was in shape, he loves football, he played hard.

463
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: Like the Patriots gave him a forty million dollar contract,

464
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: they hand those out. He was still on a rookie deal.

465
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: He was making fourth round money half a million a year.

466
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: He was the biggest bargain in the NFL those first

467
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: two years. And they gave him that deal and said

468
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna build our team around youth, Gronk and and

469
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: basically Brady not because like they don't do that unless

470
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: they believe in you like that, I mean, like the

471
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: most telling, the most, the best proof that Aaron Hernandez

472
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: was a chameleon and the Patriots didn't know is that

473
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: they risked so much on him because they wouldn't have

474
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: thought he's going to be a murderer and get arrested

475
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: and then we can cut him. It would be like

476
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: this guy shaky and he we could take a cap head.

477
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: He doesn't perform like that. They don't give that deal

478
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: unless they believe in you. This is Bill Belichick. He

479
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: would have just traded him if he thought he didn't

480
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: want to get rid of him, you know, even when

481
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: Hernandez is like, you know, I want to you know,

482
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: so they in the building and in his daily life

483
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: he was coming across with someone who's had it together.

484
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: He just didn't as particularly at those last six months.

485
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: Uh really after the double homicide things were rolled and

486
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: then and then the fight with Bradley, everything just went, hey,

487
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: why are that off? Deason? Were you in the courtroom

488
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: when Robert Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots, testified.

489
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: I was. It was amazing. In the documentary, that was

490
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: one of the moments where I think they say he

491
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: looks back for Robert Kraft to come in six different

492
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: times and to me, I don't know if it's struck

493
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: you this way, but you could tell even that Aaron

494
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: Hernandez and whatever else he's done in his life, and

495
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: obviously he was a serial killer. I mean, he made

496
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: a lot of bad decisions. He seemed to really like

497
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: Robert Kraft, right, I mean, like even on trial for murder.

498
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: The way he's looking back to see Robert Kraft come in,

499
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: it was like Craft was a grandfather or a father

500
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: like figure to him. Did you pick up on that

501
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. I mean, you know, I think I

502
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: think we wrote about it at the time. It was Yeah,

503
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: it was clear that this was like dad's home, and

504
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: and he cared what Robert Kraft was going to say

505
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: about him and what he thought about him, even as

506
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: he's on trial for murder. Yeah, And it was like

507
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: the disappointment. It's you know, like when you're a kid

508
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: and you're someone they yell you shouldn't have done this,

509
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: and the worst thing that your parents can say. I swear,

510
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm disappointed in you. I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. It's

511
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: a great it's a great dad line great moneade I

512
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: now right. So, and you you could you could see

513
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: and feel that it was like no other Ye had

514
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: people coming into that courtroom to trials literally saying the

515
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: worst things ever about him. Just I mean they're just

516
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: trashing him, and he's either staring him down or just

517
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: like whatever, I don't care. And then it comes Robert Kraft,

518
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: and you could tell it was like I disappointed this guy.

519
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: This guy was fair to me, he was good to me.

520
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: He made my dream come true and boom. And and

521
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: this is why the documentary I think is such a

522
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: great medium for this story, because people say, well, this

523
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: stuff have been in print. I did, I wrote all

524
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: this stuff. And the Boston Gold podcast Gladiator phenomenal. It's

525
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: a great crime podcast. And I if you're into this,

526
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: listen to that too. If you're really into this case,

527
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: but it's a podcast, you have to see it right,

528
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: like I can explain it. It's best I can. But

529
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: you see that and you're like, oh my goodness, look

530
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: at that look on his face. And then the amazing

531
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: thing about it craft just buries them. And a lot

532
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: of one of the problems this trial was it the

533
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: way it was covered naturally on the cable channels. And

534
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: this happens with these trials is they have the same

535
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: like the same kind of hosts of these shows and

536
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: the same three or four talking heads, like you know,

537
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: and and they aren't there and they don't really know

538
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: the trial. They're just like their lawyers who then work

539
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: all day and then they chop on TV and go,

540
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: oh this was important, this wasn't and people missed. When

541
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: Craft laid out the alibi that aired, Hernandez said, I

542
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: was at a club. I hope the timeline comes out.

543
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: It was like a gas in everybody who was there.

544
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: It was like, oh no, this is devastating for for

545
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: for Hernandez, It's like I knew where I know. I

546
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: hope the timeline comes out because when that murder happened,

547
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: I was in a club, and we had already heard

548
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: for weeks every single step of Aaron Hernandez's day, like

549
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: they had him on cell phone. The cell phones tracked

550
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: this thing, or they had cameras. He goes to dinner

551
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: in Providence, was ship, he comes back, he's at again,

552
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: like every single thing. He never went to a club

553
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: that night and he and how did he know the time?

554
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: And when he did that, it was game over for

555
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: Aaron Hernandez. So in the most unbelievable bit, Robert Kraft

556
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: put Aaron Hernandez away. And because Robert Kraft was in

557
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: the an unimpeachable witness, because it was like, why is

558
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: this guy lying? And he's the only one that Hernandez

559
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: talked to in the in that time that was gonna talk.

560
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: And so it was a devastating bit and just a

561
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: unbelievable twist to have the owner of the Patriots basically,

562
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: and then because of that, the defense had been arguing

563
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: he wasn't there, which was it wasn't gonna work anyway,

564
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: amongst tons of evidence that suggested he was there, including

565
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,719
Speaker 1: like four guys getting a car where they drop him

566
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: off on the way or you know, then pick him

567
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: up later. He had to. He had the sneakers, He

568
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: had these rare, rareer I mean his DNA is on

569
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: the gum. He had these rare sneakers, these Jordan's Jordan

570
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: elevens or something size thirteen, like you know they bring

571
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: in the Jordan expur There aren't that many of these

572
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: things made. There's a shoe box with the exact same

573
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: site from home, right, all this different stuff. But once

574
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: they did once, once Craft did that, they end up

575
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: switching their entire defense and go, yeah, he was there,

576
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: but he didn't do it. He didn't do it. The

577
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: other guys did it, which is his defense and every

578
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: single thing every time. In a five year period, there

579
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: were four shootings that at least at some point or

580
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: another someone said you were you did, or you were

581
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: at um the wanting games. Though I don't know, maybe

582
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: he wasn't there, maybe he was, but at least three

583
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: and every one of them he said no the other guys,

584
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: I was there, but the other guy did. Fox Sports

585
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

586
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

587
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

588
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. Also as a part of this,

589
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: and we're talking to Dan Wetzel. This is the Wins

590
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: and Losses podcast. I'm Clay Travis. So the the strategy,

591
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: let me take a step back. The number you were

592
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: just talking about how they can track it as his movement.

593
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: One of the things that strikes me, and I think

594
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there listening to this

595
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: now that will not have thought about it very much,

596
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: but between cell phones and public cameras, almost all of

597
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: us are being tracked all day long everywhere we go.

598
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: And in this documentary, I mean, you know, and I

599
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: think kind of in the back of your mind you

600
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: might be aware of it, but something simple like you

601
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: stop at a gas station and you go get gum

602
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: or whatever, or you're filling up your gas tank, like

603
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: they have that footage in the documentary, right, like pretty

604
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: much everywhere you go when they pick up Odin Lloyd,

605
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: there's cameras outside of one of the homes nearby there,

606
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: so we know exactly what time they get into the car.

607
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: There's a camera on the interstate such that we see

608
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: them as they are driving by at a particular time,

609
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: not even speaking to the text messages or cell phones,

610
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: which I think people will contemplate. In an investigation like this,

611
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: the police have an incredible amount of data. They can

612
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: go back through live video cameras, all these different things

613
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: that they can go back to try to trace exactly

614
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: where someone was. And that is devastating. Right even in

615
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: the second murder trial, they have the car as it

616
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: pulls out of the UH and and even footage of

617
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: the car like going down the road. They basically have everything,

618
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, like dead to rights. I mean it's kind

619
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: of wild, yeah, absolutely, And this was two thousand now

620
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: with the wh forget it because now so one of

621
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: the cameras was a home security camera that showed him

622
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 1: picking up like the other was like a crime stopper

623
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: because where Odin lived was not the best area crime areas.

624
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: So they had a crime stopper camera up there basically

625
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: to scare you know, drug dealers away from the corner.

626
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: People hanging out in the corner. Well, now every suburban

627
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: called the sack in America's got fifty rings pointed out

628
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: at the very don't do it. You're done. I mean

629
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: they got everything. They know where you are, what you're doing,

630
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: the cell phones, your car is now trackable, even more

631
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: so than it was back then. And uh yeah, it

632
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: was overwhelming evidence. And if you sat it was very tedious.

633
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was tedious. They would go through

634
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: the cellphone towers it and you you know, I'm like,

635
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: you just want to fast forward. You're like, I got it,

636
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: you got him, but they gotta go. Then he went

637
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: to this and then I mean it was like there

638
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: was a week of just like but it's painstaking and

639
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming. And that's what gets lost kind of when

640
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: you look back on these trials and go, well, this

641
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: was the dramatic moment, because you watch these and it's

642
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: like you feel like these things are you know, a

643
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: two day trial. It's like it was eight weeks. Man,

644
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: Like they had him done and there was no way

645
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: he could get out of this, this crime. He was guilty.

646
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: He was there, and they had a rule in in

647
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: the in Massachusetts of law called basically, if if you

648
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: are with somebody on the commission of a crime, you're

649
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: as guilty as whoever does the crime. So yeah, yeah,

650
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: you and I say let's go, let's go kill a guy,

651
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: but you pull the trigger, it doesn't matter. I'm there,

652
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: I knew what we were going to do. And so

653
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: for Hernandez, they basically had to argue he did all this,

654
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: but he was expecting uh either Ortiz or Wallace to

655
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: shoot him, which then they refuted by showing, ironically enough,

656
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: he got this home security camera because he thought his

657
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: own life was in danger and as a result, it

658
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: basically damned him. I mean, they had him on the

659
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: home security camera walking around with the murder weapon, arriving

660
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: back at his house shortly after the murder might have happened,

661
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: with the guys that would have committed the murder, and

662
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: then you have him playing around with the with his

663
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: young daughter, with the two guys who were there as

664
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: a part of the murder as well, which is you know,

665
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 1: again the argument, hey, if you really didn't trust these

666
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: guys and you thought they were bad dudes. Why are

667
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: you letting them hold your baby daughter? Yeah, And there

668
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: was more like they went out and had lunch by

669
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: the pool. Yeah, out later I think it was later

670
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: that night or the next night. He sent shay Anna

671
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: with the money to meet these guys at the side

672
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: of a bunking Donuts or McDonald's or something on the

673
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: side of a high offer it rampant Rhode Island to

674
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: give them some money. And again it was like, well,

675
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: if you think these two are killer, like you just

676
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I I could see let's say it's plausible

677
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: that we you and I go out and there's a

678
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: third guy and I just shoot this guy, and you're

679
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: just like so stunned and terrified of me. You're just like,

680
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go along with it. But by the

681
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: next night when they're when I'm gone, you don't sit

682
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: there and say, hey, uh, send, I'm gonna send my

683
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: wife and kids to go meet up with this homicidal

684
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 1: maniac on the side of a highway to give him money,

685
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: like you know, I mean again, it's like, that's it's

686
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: not plausible that you would just be like, oh, it's

687
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: just stunned that this guy killed I. I didn't like

688
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: this guy. Now he's a killer. It's like, but you

689
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: sent your wife and your and your baby to see them.

690
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: So there was more and more evidence obviously that you

691
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: know this isn't there's there's different elements this. You could

692
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: do an entire uh Netflix series just on the trials. Yeah,

693
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: so much. And what are the challenges from the first

694
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: trial is that they never really nailed down why he

695
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: killed Odin Lloyd. Right, we know that he was and

696
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: we know that he was angry at least in the

697
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: documentary and I remember reading about it. Right. We know

698
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: that he was angry at Odin Lloyd that night and

699
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: that he was upset. And maybe the intimation is that

700
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: Odin Lloyd either knew one or two things right or

701
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: maybe both. He might have known about the shooting outside

702
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: of Boston where they killed the guy or two guys. Uh.

703
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 1: Or he might have known about Aaron Hernandez being gay,

704
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: which we haven't even talked about her bisexual at a minimum. Uh.

705
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: And And so did you sitting in that trial have

706
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: a better sense for what the motive was for the

707
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: murder of Oden Lloyd or did they ever really nail

708
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: it down so far as you could tell. So here's

709
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: the thing about that, and we alluded to that, and

710
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: I wish it was told in my opinion. Everyone's got

711
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: different opinions, but in my opinion it was told a

712
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: little better. But both Bias and I talked about it

713
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: in there. They couldn't. Alexander Bradley testified the first trial,

714
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: but they were not able to advance into evidence anything

715
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: about the double homicide in Boston's for the fact that

716
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: he shot Alexander Bradley, or Bradley was trying to kill him.

717
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: That wasn't until the second trial. So in the first

718
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: trial of Odin Lloyd, in my opinion, everything changed because

719
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: of Alexander Bradley, and Aaron's behavior in the spring of

720
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen was almost solely about not getting killed

721
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: by Alexander Bradley. He thought he was going to get

722
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: ambushed and murdered at any moment, because for people out

723
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: there who might not remember, Alexander Bradley is the guy

724
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: that he shot outside of a strip club in uh

725
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: And look, there's some uncertainty as to who exactly might

726
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: have pulled the trigger on Alexander Bradley, and that guy

727
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: is a little bit of an untrustworthy witness in and

728
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: of itself. But he was shot outside of us after

729
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: spending the night with that with UH with Aaron Hernandez

730
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: at the Strip club. And he says partly it was

731
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: because Aaron Hernandez was paranoid about the shooting, and he said, well,

732
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have been basically such an idiot and shot

733
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: those two dudes outside of Boston in the strip club.

734
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: He told Aaron Hernandez that, according to his testimony, so

735
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: the right. But here's what we know. Aaron Bradley was shot, Yeah,

736
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: got in the head, lost his eye, that's why his eye,

737
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: his eyes all messed up in the CLI. Also, we

738
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: know Bradley was blaming that on Hernandez. Now whether or

739
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: not it was because Hernandez was the trigger man or

740
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: as Bias says, Hernandez somehow was involved in in in

741
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: recommending somebody like a drug deal gone bad. Bradley is

742
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: sending text messages to Aaron her nand is saying tainy

743
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 1: big money, or I'm going to kill you, or I'm

744
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: going to get revenge. I've got guns. He's threatened him.

745
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: I think he said pictures of guns, like he's so regardless,

746
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: and this is a terrifying dude. This is not the

747
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: dude you want. Like, this is not like some some

748
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: big talker. This is like a stone cold killer, basically

749
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: saying you tried to kill me. I didn't tell the

750
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: police about it because I want to kill you myself.

751
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: And Bradley and Aaron Hernandez is not a hardcore gangster.

752
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: He grew up in two parent home, albeit dysfunctional, but

753
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: he saw his house. He's got a light fence in front,

754
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: he's got you know, dad goes to college. It's not great,

755
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: it's not perfect. His older brother seems to be a

756
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: good dude. Right, I'm a terrific guy. Right, there's it's

757
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, he's been coddled as a football player and

758
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: he's he's kind of so now here's Alexander Bradley. Alexander

759
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: brad has been shot, I mean the picture of the

760
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: video in a bar in Hartford to get shot in

761
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: the groin and then he shoots up the bar. Yeah,

762
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: just shoots eleven shots into a bar Like that's you know,

763
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: this is a crazy person. So he knows that. So

764
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: every decision to me that spring he moves the He

765
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: moves shayan At him to California for like three months.

766
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: Sets when he gets the tattoo of the gun. That

767
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: kind of show that that's why he got a tattoo.

768
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: Parliament from Mosa Beach goes to talk to the Patriots.

769
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: He tells his agents a story he wants. He wanted

770
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: away from there. He knows once training camp starts, okay,

771
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: so he goes back to Matthew's. I think they have

772
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: like a mini camp. There's an a little off season.

773
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: It's like a month where nothing happens. Dan Fel. That's

774
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: why general managers get freaked out, because he's when all

775
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: the troubles them. He knows once training camp starts, he's

776
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: easy to find. They will print the schedule of his

777
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: work in the paper. And so if you want to

778
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: find Alexander Bradley, or you want to find out Aaron

779
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: Hernett has to kill him, you just follow him home

780
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: from training camp before you wait, before he gets there

781
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: or whatever it's gonna be. So he every move he

782
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: is making is based on how do I now. I

783
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: can only imagine the paranoia of that this guy can

784
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: tell about me being involved in the double homicide in Boston.

785
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 1: He can tell about me being involved in the shooting,

786
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: any of these would and his career, or he can

787
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: kill me. He can literally turn the corner. I can

788
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: go out to my car, turn a corner and I'm dead.

789
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: I can be driving down either Aaron Hernandez shot up

790
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: that car in Boston or Alexander Bradley shot up that

791
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: car Boston, which means he knows alexand he he knows Alexander.

792
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: You know he knows Alexander Bradley could just pull up

793
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: on a car, just blast them, as they said, at

794
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: a stoplight near his house. So every action he has,

795
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: you can't put it into the realm of what is

796
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: rational behavior. Now, the prosecutors in that first case had

797
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: to because the jury knew none of this. But I

798
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: think the failure that people have right now and again,

799
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 1: I think we need to do a little better job.

800
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: So I could do one thing, it would be hammer

801
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: this again. But if you rewatch it, both by as

802
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: and I talk about it. It's the reason he probably

803
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: kills Odin Lloyd is because Odin does know about the

804
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: second house, the the apartment, because he took Odin there.

805
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: He might have just in his paranoid. He's he's he's

806
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: partying NonStop. He's partying like he's about to die, right,

807
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: He's basically this living like he's just trying to get

808
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: through the days. And I think he sat there and

809
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know whether it's real or not,

810
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: but at some point he thought, I can't have Odin

811
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: Lloyd around. This is gonna cost me. So he gets

812
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: his two bodyguards, these two guys that aren't really his friends,

813
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: up from Connecticut, and they go and kill him. And

814
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: I think that's the motive. It's I don't think the

815
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: gay rumors man at that point, you know, did Odin

816
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 1: Lloyd know that. I don't know, but that's a lot

817
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: less of a problem. Then I'm going to get killed

818
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: and if anybody, if I can't trust the crew I'm around,

819
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: at that point, they gotta go. That's why I think

820
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: Odin Lloyd got murdered. That's the theory. But the problem

821
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: with the story is none of that could be you know,

822
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: people go a little prosecutors had no motive, and they

823
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: didn't for the purpose of a trial. But if you

824
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: look at the whole scope of the story, that seems

825
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: to be the most likely motive to me. Okay, there

826
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: are two murder trials. Aaron Hernandez beats the murder trial

827
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: the second one, which is a double homicide that actually

828
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: happens first chronologically, and I thought you guys did a

829
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: good job the story. None of it is. So if

830
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: Aaron Hernandez hires Jose Baiz to defend him on the

831
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: first murder trial that goes to trial, the Odin Lloyd case,

832
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 1: you watched Jose Baiez in the second murder trial. Could

833
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: he have gotten Aaron Hernandez off on an acquittal in

834
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: that first murder trial just based on how good of

835
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: a lawyer he is. There's even a joke kind of

836
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: at the end where one of Aaron hernandez his friends says,

837
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what what. I'm sure Aaron

838
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: had some regrets and he's like, and I bet one

839
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: of them is that he didn't have Jose Bias for

840
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: the first Ardent trial, which is kind of a funny

841
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: little bit of levity at the end of what's obviously

842
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: a dark story. Um, do you think Jose Bias could

843
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: have gotten Aaron Hernandez off on that first trial? Jose

844
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: and I disagree on this. I don't. He says he can.

845
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: He says he could have. But that's sort of like, yeah,

846
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: he does, but that's that's like Jordan's saying yeah, Pipp

847
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: and Pipp and saying I would have hit all the

848
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 1: shots too. Yeah. Look at I think Jose Biases. He's

849
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: if you got charged with murder, you would hire Jose

850
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: Bias to defend you if you could afford him. Done. Yeah,

851
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: you find a way to afford him. Yeah, Okay, that

852
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You find a way. He's phenomenal. I I

853
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: thought he was the prosecutor in Boston was phenomenal too. Yeah.

854
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes they can run rough shot off of because you have,

855
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 1: you know, the best, you're bringing in the best, the best,

856
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: and some of these prosecutors just to art. Yeah, right,

857
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: because there's too many people under rate I don't want

858
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: to cut you off, but people underrate lawyer talent because

859
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: they don't spend enough time around lawyers. But you know,

860
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: there is a Michael Jordan's of lawyers, right and Mike

861
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: right now, Jose Bias might be for big national trials,

862
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: the hose the Michael Jordan's uh, And it varies, right,

863
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: because people get older, they age out of it and

864
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: everything else. But right now, Jose Bayez is Jordan right,

865
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: Like he's like Jordan's in his prime. And he got

866
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: Casey Anthony Off. He got Aaron Hernandez off. And I

867
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: think in both those cases people said, man, there's no

868
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: way either one of those people are going to be

869
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 1: able to get off right and and it's the difference

870
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: between being life. Well this guy, this is an NBA player,

871
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: So you know, hey, I got an NBA player to

872
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 1: join my pickup team or my team, and you got great?

873
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: Who do you got? I got Andre Drummond. Okay, that's great,

874
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: But I got the honest yeah, yeah, Lebron, Like there's

875
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: levels to the levels, right, and he's he's I don't

876
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: know every attorney I've I've watched, I've covered a lot

877
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: of crimes. This is the best attorney I saw. He

878
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: was absolutely phenomenal, and I think he would have been

879
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: absolutely and he has a whole TV It's phenomenal. His

880
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: his his his group is phenomenal, the whole crew. So

881
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: would they have done a better job, I am sure.

882
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: But Jamie Sultan, the lead attorney in the first trial,

883
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: is a very good attorney. Like Aaron did not have

884
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: a low. I mean he spent a lot. I'm sure

885
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: he spent a ton of money on this defense. Like

886
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: they had a good team there too. They're just was

887
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: too much evidence. I just don't know how you get

888
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: through this. And there's a perception that it was close

889
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: because the jury spent a week on a week deliberating,

890
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: and we even have it in there like the Nancy

891
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: Grace who never set foot and Fall River, Massachusetts going wow,

892
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: you know he's gonna get off because he's a patriot.

893
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: Is It's like, oh, Jack, there's no noil correlation. So

894
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: those those jurors didn't care if he's a patriot. They

895
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: weren't like blind patriot fans going he didn't couldn't have

896
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: done it. There was no there was no police misconduct,

897
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: there was no pent up generations of of of racial

898
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: tension like these are the ex serves of Boston. They're

899
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: just like they were incredibly dutiful they I mean I

900
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: talked to the jurors after, they did interviews after and

901
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: it was all like, yeah, we went through all of

902
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: the we just decided before we take a vote, we're

903
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: gonna go. We just did eight weeks. This is this

904
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: is an incredibly important thing. We're putting the guy away

905
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: for life, twenty three years old or you know whatever

906
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: he was at that point, and we're gonna go through

907
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: all the evidence. So they took a week and did it,

908
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: and but there was no This wasn't a close case.

909
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: And so I don't think whose they could do it,

910
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: but I think it's a it's like a convenient there's

911
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: lots of convenient little talking points like out buys would

912
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: have got him off. Here's the other thing they go

913
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: later on, they go, well, if he could win an

914
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: appeal to get another trial, then jose bias and get

915
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: him up. First off, Now we're in a whole different

916
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: level because you have to go find a jury pool

917
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: in Massachusets after everything is known, that's now going to

918
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: acquit him. No way, Like you got to look at

919
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 1: the These courtrooms are not in a vacuum. So let's

920
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: say he gets off of the second one, gets a

921
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: retrial on the first one, and now you're picking your jury.

922
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: That jury, particularly in Bristol County, which is outside of

923
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: Suffolk County where Boston is, I don't know how you

924
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: find twelve people that are gonna be like, yeah, I'm fine,

925
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: with letting this guy walk. It just I just don't

926
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:47,959
Speaker 1: think it could have happened. Um, the relationship between Hernandez

927
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: is fiance, and again I think this was crazy and underplay,

928
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: and I thought the documentary brought it home pretty well.

929
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: Aaron Hernandez killed the guy who might have become his

930
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: brother in law, right, I mean his fiance was sisters

931
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: with Odin Lloyd's girlfriend, which is how they initially became connected.

932
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 1: So it's not just that he killed Odin Lloyd, it's

933
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: that he basically, it appears, destroyed this relationship between the

934
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: fiance who for some reason remained loyal to air In

935
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: her Nandez and uh and her sister, and obviously then

936
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: the family who she remained loyal to, Odin Lloyd's family.

937
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: So what kind of dynamics did you pick up on

938
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: in their relationship having spent all that time in the courtroom.

939
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the fiance is a strange bird, so to speak,

940
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 1: in her own right right, like her entire behavior. Yeah, yeah,

941
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 1: it was this tension again these courtroom that courtrooms are

942
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: smaller three rows. There was a split in the middle, right,

943
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: It's like like church cues or whatever, you know, like

944
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: half on it each side maybe could fit ten people

945
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: maybe maybe total occupancy, and there's maybe fifty people. They're

946
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: they're six seven ft apart and court adjourns and they court.

947
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's ten breaks during the day. Everyone

948
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: gets up, goes outside, go lunch, go in. They're passing

949
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 1: right by each other, you know, like they would try

950
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: to maybe you know, not like both walk out of

951
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: the thing. But these are two sisters that grew up together.

952
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: They were close. They're hanging out all the time. That's

953
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: how uh Shaniya is up in Boston, and I wish

954
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: this had gotten in. And she's attending law school. She's

955
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: a lawyer now. She's sending New England College of Law

956
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 1: up in Boston, and she had met she had worked

957
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: her way through college, working nights at a mote at

958
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: a nott a motel but like a like a fair

959
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 1: field in type place down in Connecticut. I can't remember

960
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: the hotel fun like that comfort in Maybe Oden Lloyd's

961
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: working on like forget the company, but like a constructction

962
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: projects and he gets put down there for basically six

963
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: weeks and staying at the hotel. And that's how they met.

964
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: They met because she's the like you know, you know,

965
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: there's the girl at the front counter, so that he's

966
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: hanging out down there. He's known as this like gregariously

967
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: funny guy and just laid back and just not a care,

968
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, just very likable dude. Right, And so then

969
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: she moves to Boston to attend law school and her

970
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 1: sister is now I mean like got this huge house

971
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: down the suburbs and in his you know, fiance with

972
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: with Aaron, who they all knew growing up because they

973
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: all went to school, they all want they're all from Bristol,

974
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: but the other you know, so that dynamic and the

975
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: fact that the sisters and then that Chayanna stays loyal

976
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: to Aaron and Aaron. This is why, like this crime

977
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: makes zero sense because if you're like Aaron had Aaron was,

978
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: if Shanna Jenkins wanted to flip on Aaron and she

979
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: ends up pushing off like and basically getting avoiding a

980
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: prosecution of perjury, uh about you know, hiding the weapon.

981
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: At any point that she flips, Aaron's probably done. So

982
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: he's counting on So I don't think he's planned this

983
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,439
Speaker 1: thing out at all. He's counting on Shayanna not ever,

984
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: not ever flipping back to being loyal to her sister,

985
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: because if she does, she has all the presumably like

986
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: that box has got a gun in it, or that

987
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, she knows something, and she never does. She

988
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: sticks with Aaron over as the sister, and that that

989
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: alone is just a fascinating dynamic to it, and I

990
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: think that's one of the reasons it's popular. There's a

991
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: lot of sisters out there going to why, you know,

992
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: what the heck I had to die? Tell me? Like

993
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: as a husband, like, luis I ever kill someone sos boyfriend?

994
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: You know, just split threat. You don't have to stick

995
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: with me, turn me in, you know. Yeah, So incredible

996
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: loyalty at times to Aaron. There's incredible loyalty in this,

997
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: but there's also incredible betrayal. It's just just a fascinating,

998
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: fascinating story. Nobody in this story sits in a box.

999
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: It's the most complicated part. There's times when everybody's a

1000
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: little bit likable, you know, I mean, even Aaron when

1001
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, interacting with his daughter. And then

1002
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: there's times on almost everyone's dislikable other than you know,

1003
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: the victims and a couple of people. But it's just

1004
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: such a complicated story. That's it's very very hard to

1005
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: tell um and and I think that, but that that's

1006
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: why this is this fascination continues and continues with it.

1007
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: One of the most chilling parts, and there are a

1008
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: lot in the course of the movie is Aaron Hernandez

1009
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: day at the at the high school or I'm sorry,

1010
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: elementary school where his mom is a teacher, and the

1011
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 1: entire gem I think is like celebrating when he's going

1012
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: to the super Bowl and everybody's going crazy in his

1013
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: mom's like the featured you know, uh celebrant there. Yeah,

1014
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: she's got like a sash on, like she's Miss America.

1015
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 1: And they play a short little clip of Aaron her

1016
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: Nandez calling the kids and saying, hey be good, you know,

1017
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: basically go to school, and it's juxtaposed with the you know,

1018
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: the more awful stories of what he was involved in.

1019
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 1: I mean that kind of goes to the essence of

1020
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: this story, right. I mean, we talked earlier, we started

1021
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: talking about the mom and Aaron hernandez is relationship and

1022
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 1: how bad it was. I mean, I think, for lack

1023
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: of a better way of describing it, but when you

1024
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: see that footage from the elementary school. I mean that's unbelievable, right,

1025
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:46,959
Speaker 1: like the celebration of Aaron Hernandez going to the Super Bowl. Yeah,

1026
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: And I mean it's the the old ad is you

1027
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: don't know these guys. Yeah, you know, taken to the

1028
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: extreme obviously, right like she at the time. And you

1029
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: also don't know her because if you saw that, you'd

1030
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: be like, oh, this is a growing Wow. She's a

1031
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: school teacher, she raised a son who's playing in the

1032
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. She's got to be the greatest mom ever.

1033
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: And the reality is when you watch this documentary, you're like, man,

1034
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: she was awful and the other yeah, the other son

1035
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: and so got everything together. And yeah, yeah, Mrs Hernandez

1036
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: is she's like a school I think she worked the

1037
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: office or whatever. But yeah, so it's the one you

1038
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: call in because your kids got a cold or something

1039
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, and it's in the whole city. You know,

1040
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: Bristol doesn't turn out athletes like this. You know everyone

1041
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: in the local team that the kids all like anyway,

1042
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,919
Speaker 1: you know, so yeah, it's and yeah and and and

1043
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: I think she goes. I think the reporter understandably you

1044
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: know her is like you raised a role model, and

1045
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, within six months he's going to

1046
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: he's going to be involved in a double shooting, drive

1047
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: by shooting, you know, like not even a crime of passion,

1048
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: which I'm not excused thing, but it makes more sense.

1049
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they couldn't didn't on that double murder. They couldn't.

1050
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: They had no clues because and then then the detective

1051
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: even says like they went back and they watched the

1052
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: footage and they're like, oh, wow, Aaron Hernandez was there

1053
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: that night. But they're like, there's no way Aaron Hernandez

1054
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 1: just pulled up on two random guys and murdered them

1055
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: right like that. They was in that club for like

1056
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: ten minutes that he walks in the club when they do,

1057
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: and then you see him walking out in the footage

1058
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: and he still has his drink and he takes a shot.

1059
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: He drinks it right before he walks out in the street.

1060
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: He's in that place for like ten eleven minutes. So

1061
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: they like, how in the world could Aaron Hernandez and

1062
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: ten or eleven minutes get how where is this interaction

1063
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: between these guys that could possibly, you know, cause cause

1064
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: them to wait circle the block and end up later

1065
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: like just blasting him out of street. Why would anyone

1066
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: want these guys dead in that kind of not just

1067
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: would you want him dead, but to to do it

1068
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: in such outrageous fashion, like in the middle downtown that

1069
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: there was not a camera on that corner, but the

1070
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: theater district or where that was in the corner is

1071
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: maybe one block from like a major entertainment district in

1072
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: one of the biggest cities in America. Like, that's the

1073
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: last place you try to kill somebody, And why would

1074
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: somebody do that? And then they do that, and then

1075
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: they just parked the suv because I guess they've become

1076
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: aware that the suv is like being sought after in

1077
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: his cousin's garage, and they would have never probably solved

1078
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: this crime or even come up with a theory because

1079
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: he got acquitted from it. Because we just don't know

1080
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: who the shooter was, right, I mean, it could have

1081
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: been the other It was Bradley and Hernandez in the car.

1082
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: Bradley is not reputable. He could have shot him both guys.

1083
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: Two guys in the car. Someone's the trigger man. They

1084
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: both say it's the other person. It's almost like the

1085
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: definition of your attorney. But you know reasonable doubt. How

1086
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: do you know? How do you know he did it? Oh?

1087
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: Bradley says, though, look at Bradley, he's crazy. Bradley shoots

1088
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: people right, Like, so you go, I don't know. I

1089
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: thought the jury got that right. The problem with Hernandez,

1090
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: it's like you hid the murder car and your cousin's garage.

1091
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: You took the murder weapon and it ends up in

1092
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: your cousin's house and it it gets filtered back. Uh,

1093
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: you know clearly he was involved in it, and so

1094
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: um you didn't know. But it's not like Aaron Hernandez

1095
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: was found not guilty. It was a boy has got

1096
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: him that. But this is not like oh no, DNA

1097
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: evidence showed he was in Florida at the time. He

1098
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 1: wasn't even there. Like this is not some wrongful prosecution.

1099
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: This is like, well, you know, Selton's got to give.

1100
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: And those two poor guys who were the who were shot,

1101
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean they you pointed out and the documentary does

1102
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: a good job. I mean, these guys are the quintessential

1103
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: immigrants trying to live the American dream. They're working. One

1104
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: was a former car in Cape Verde, like you know, like, yeah,

1105
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: they're just there's no evidence, nothing's ever come forward. This

1106
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: is just anything other than they're just young guys who

1107
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: are out who happened to bump into air and Hernandez

1108
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: and spills. A bunch of their family had been had

1109
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: been coming over. Small business owners, these I mean the brothers.

1110
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: These people were the best, I mean, salt of the

1111
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: earth working. They would be trying to run businesses and

1112
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: doing work during breaks at the trial, like they the

1113
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: Suffolk County gave them like a room, you know, there's

1114
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: like a victim's room. They would go running down there

1115
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: and they're trying to work while I mean like and

1116
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: I would talk to them just about the stress of

1117
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: like I got kids and I gotta get back for this,

1118
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: but my brother and you know, like just heart wrenching,

1119
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: just heart wrenching, like the best people and they're trying

1120
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: to do everything they can to make it in America

1121
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: and this football guy just kills They're kid. You know,

1122
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: these two idiots, Hernandez and Bradley, and you know, whichever

1123
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: one it was doesn't matter together and it's like god,

1124
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, like because you know it's chain immigration, come over, Hey,

1125
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: let's get my brother over. We're gonna build this, We're

1126
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: gonna get a family business. We're gonna make it. We're

1127
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: gonna make it in America. It's the best story going.

1128
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: And it was just heart wrenching and the stress that

1129
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: they were under the mountain. It costs the park in

1130
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: downtown Boston all day, you know, like things like that,

1131
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: the traffic that I gotta get back my kids that

1132
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, just incredible hardship for just beyond you know,

1133
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: I mean obviously beyond the death of their their loved one,

1134
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: but it's just the whole thing was just just awful.

1135
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm glad we spent the amount of time

1136
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: we did on the victims because if you look at

1137
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: any of the others, it's just sort of like it

1138
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: is these two guys, and it's like, yeah, there's more

1139
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: to it than that, and just get you angry about

1140
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: like they there's no need. Let's say let's say there

1141
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: was something. Let's say they even did something to really

1142
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: anger Aaron Hernandezer Alexander Bradley go go fight them, like,

1143
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: don't don't sneak attack him and shoot up the car

1144
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: Like there's no weapons, they have no weapons. There's no

1145
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: weapons found in their car, you know, like you want

1146
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: to get in a fight with these guys, fight them,

1147
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: You're out your damn NFL player. Yeah, I mean, the

1148
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: the the senseless violence of it is is overwhelming. Um

1149
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: And the airon Hernandez angle and I'm sure you guys

1150
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: are getting some blowback on it is tying in the

1151
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: CTE because his brain, like you know, the way that

1152
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: he killed himself, his brain was relatively undamaged. I believe

1153
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: he hung himself, right like if I'm not a mistaken,

1154
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: So they and they were able to study his brain.

1155
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: Um and the thing about ct that's so interesting, and

1156
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: one of the players says it, and I thought that

1157
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: was important, Like there's lots of dudes who have had

1158
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: ct Uh. None of those dudes have ever that we

1159
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: know of, committed murder while they're playing on an NFL team,

1160
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: right Like I mean, so the CTE does not, like,

1161
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 1: in some way excuse his behavior, but it does yeah, yeah, right,

1162
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 1: but it does raise the question of to what extent,

1163
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: Like the big part of the under a lot overlying

1164
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: I would say, theme of this question of of the

1165
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: documentary is why, right, like why and how like we

1166
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: we kind of know the how, like how it happened,

1167
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: But why did it happen? Why did Aaron Hernandez as

1168
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: you mentioned this guy who grew up in not a

1169
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: great two parent household. His dad died when he was

1170
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: a teenager, and uh and his mom obviously, based on

1171
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: their conversations, they have a fractured relationship in many ways.

1172
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: But that's not uncommon, right, Dysfunctional homes are not uncommon.

1173
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: Most kids who grow up in dysfunctional households don't become

1174
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: serial murderers, right, so let's start there. Uh, he goes

1175
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: to a relative in a relatively good school, right, It's

1176
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: not like he went to a bad school. He goes

1177
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: away to college at Florida, where he has you know,

1178
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: a guy like Tim Tebow, Uh and other you know,

1179
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: whether you like or dislike Urban Meyer Shelley Meyer, like

1180
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 1: they're in the documentary as well. There are lots of

1181
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: people who care about him at the University of Florida, right,

1182
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: Like they're trying to give him an opportunity. He then

1183
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: go to sports system when he wanted it at any

1184
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: point he did, he go and the Patriots would supply

1185
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: him with counselors or I mean he goes to maybe

1186
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: the best organization in the NFL. It's not like it's

1187
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: a dysfunctional organization, you know, where you are given the

1188
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: opportunity to succeed as a professional better than anything else.

1189
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: And this all still happens. So, you know, the CT

1190
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: was obviously involved his in the the fact that his

1191
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 1: father died. We haven't even talked about. I want to

1192
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: ask the last couple of questions about his sexuality here

1193
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: in a minute. He obviously is closeted and either gay

1194
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: or bisexual, depending on how you want to define his sexuality.

1195
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: But all of these things kind of in a toxic

1196
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: cocktail come together. But even with all of those things, right, like,

1197
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: there are tons of people out there right now who

1198
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: are sexually frustrated because they're not sure whether they're gay

1199
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: or straight, or whether they can come out or not.

1200
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: Right there are tons of people out there who have

1201
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: broken in some way fractured relationships with their parents. There

1202
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: are tons of people out there who have, uh, you know,

1203
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: all different sorts of challenges in their life. Most of

1204
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: them do not become serial murderers. Why did he? And

1205
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: that's the question we even after all three hours of

1206
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: the document and probably after the all the time you

1207
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: spending both those trials, you still can't answer why no,

1208
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: and and and even if I talk to somebody intricately

1209
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: involved in the in the in his life of trial

1210
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: off the record, it's like that's the like why what

1211
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: the heck? You used the term? And I've been using this.

1212
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: It's a perfect cocktail. I don't know what it is.

1213
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: And I think the only criticism of the of the

1214
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: film that I get a little bit annoyed about is

1215
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,439
Speaker 1: we didn't didn't tell us why we can't. It would

1216
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 1: be completely irresponsible for me to say, why is it CT? No,

1217
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: of course it's not only CT. There's been four NFL

1218
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: players that have committed murder, Okay, four o J. It's

1219
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: like if it's four guys, yeah, Aaron and somebody I

1220
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: can't remember, but you know, and maybe Ray and Lewis

1221
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: was involved. But that's a street fight, you know, Like

1222
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,919
Speaker 1: o J is involved in domestic violence, nothing like this,

1223
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: like you. But but what I've been told on CT

1224
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: is it's it's like genetic, like you. You know, everyone's

1225
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: got like some uncle that smokes two packs a day

1226
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 1: and it's there as seventy five years old. You know,

1227
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, totally right, and then and you go, how

1228
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 1: the hell this guy and not get cancer? Genetics, I

1229
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: don't know, knows right, do I recommend smoking too facts

1230
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: the day, No, you'll probably get cancer, but some people don't.

1231
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: Some people can handle this, Some people can hand I

1232
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: don't know why he did it. Nobody knows, and I

1233
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: think it's just be completely ridiculous to be like, well,

1234
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,759
Speaker 1: this was it. I mean, we tried to explore every

1235
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 1: fast of it, either really obviously or even in in

1236
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: smaller doses where you can just sit there and go, gosh,

1237
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's this, Maybe it's that, it's it's

1238
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: that's why. It's a fascinating story. And so I don't

1239
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: have the answer. We're never going to get the answer.

1240
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: This guy, this guy never stopped stunning people around him

1241
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: about what was really going on in his head. And

1242
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: I go to that suicide. Nobody saw it coming. I mean,

1243
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 1: he hung up with his fiance, he talked to I

1244
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: think he talked to Bias. He talked like six people

1245
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: on the last day, hung up with all of them.

1246
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: These are people he's dealing with every single day. Everything's up.

1247
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: He's never been more excited. He walks into his prison cell.

1248
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: He has it all planned out because he needs to,

1249
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 1: Like he needs a bedspread that he's nodded so many

1250
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 1: times that it's strong enough to hold him. He's got enough,

1251
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 1: He's acquired enough shampoo to soap the entire floor so

1252
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: his feet will slip. He's got hardboard to jam the

1253
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 1: door so the guards can't get it open. He's got uh,

1254
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: you know, three three very personal letters written. He's got

1255
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: all this stuff. He wrote a letter to his daughter,

1256
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: to his wife and toney Toney, Yeah, and all of

1257
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 1: them are very personal, like you know, like there's song

1258
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: lyrics with cha on and things like that. He he

1259
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: literally hangs up like everything's great, and then he goes

1260
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: in and does that. And they they're they're so stunned

1261
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 1: that they all thought someone murdered him. The evidence is

1262
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: clear that didn't happen. Okay, he killed himself, but like

1263
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: nobody knew him, just nobody knew him. And I don't

1264
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: know anyone I her will. So I think even if

1265
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: you got every single person had ever talked to him,

1266
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, in in under truth serum, we still would go.

1267
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: I don't know when did you first become aware that

1268
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: he might be gay. Uh, I had heard during I

1269
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,600
Speaker 1: can't remember whether I had heard it either during the

1270
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: first trial or during I had heard some rumors that

1271
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: he might um, he might be bisexual. He there was

1272
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: a part of the first trial where he um tried

1273
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: to he tried to sleep with his uh there there

1274
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: there Nanny um back at the so called flophouse. And

1275
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: then I think after that I had heard some rumblings

1276
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 1: And but you know, how do you know? I mean,

1277
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 1: you know, how do you know? So the reason why

1278
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: I bring it up, it becomes a big part because

1279
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 1: I do think other people look at it, and I

1280
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: think the I think with the way we brought perspective

1281
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 1: with with Ryan O'Callahan, but I think the story is

1282
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 1: fascinating his own right and pretty enlightening because, um, you know,

1283
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: the struggle of not being able to be who you

1284
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: are would be crushing on a daily basis, right, it

1285
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: would be very especially if you felt like the person

1286
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: that you were was an awful person, right, Like if

1287
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: you were of the belief like and I think they

1288
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: say early in the documentary, like if Aaron Hernandez his

1289
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 1: dad had known that he was gay, it wouldn't have

1290
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: said right lapped it out of him, right, thought you

1291
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: could slap it out of him. And you think if

1292
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: if they find out I'm gonna lose my job in

1293
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: the NFL and the millions of people, the sixty five

1294
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: thousand people cheering me right now, are Austin going to

1295
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 1: turn on me, which, by the way, they wouldn't correct.

1296
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,639
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. I think I don't care,

1297
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: ye don't care. But you get that paranoia again. Paranoia.

1298
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: He's nervous about everything, and so it's like, who is

1299
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: this guy? He can't beat him in any facet and

1300
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: so in his mind, I'm sure he thought, like everyone,

1301
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: my friends, you know, my friends from Florida gonna hate me,

1302
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 1: My teammates are gonna hate me, the fans, it's gonna

1303
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: be this bit huge thing. He can't just come out

1304
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: quietly as an NFL player, Like it's just you know,

1305
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:25,640
Speaker 1: like maybe he could, but it would get out. It

1306
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: would be this huge thing. It's almost like too much,

1307
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: like you know, so you can see where that was

1308
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: something weighing on him. That was that the reason, No, um,

1309
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: but when you listen to O'Callahan, I mean, it was

1310
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 1: just that I just thought that was so powerful. You know.

1311
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: He's like, basically, I tried to get so fat no

1312
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: girl would like me, so no one would. Yeah, this

1313
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: is an NFL player who played with the Patriots. I retire.

1314
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill myself. Yeah, and he says he, you know,

1315
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 1: he sat down with his parents, and it's kind of

1316
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: an interesting mirror conversation because the big thing that Aaron

1317
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: says is over and over like you don't know me,

1318
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: I can't be honest with you. He's talking to his

1319
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 1: mom and uh. And what is also interesting is this

1320
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: guy says, you know, I gotta talk to you mom

1321
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: and dad and like, and it's kind of it's an

1322
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful moment because his mom was like, oh, I

1323
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: thought you had a terminal illness. You know, like this

1324
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: is so much better, right, but I don't care. Yeah, yeah,

1325
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: it's not that big of a deal. And you've also

1326
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: with the San Souci's where the dad's like basically like,

1327
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 1: well good, let's get you feeling better about yourself. Yeah,

1328
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know. And that's the quarterback that he

1329
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: had a relationship with, who was on his high school team.

1330
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 1: Starting in like seventh or eighth grade. They started to

1331
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: experiment sexually with each other and he's not feeling good,

1332
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: and this and that, and I'm just assuming at this point,

1333
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 1: if you've listened to like an hour and a half

1334
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: of the podcast, you watched the show. Yeah, yeah, if

1335
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 1: you still are like, I gotta watch this, but it

1336
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: is And then you also get like I think a

1337
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: lot of people out there who were guys especially and

1338
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: watch I said on my radio show The a couple

1339
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 1: of days ago. I said, like, most of the time

1340
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 1: men watch television because they wish they were the guy

1341
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 1: that they're watching on television. And it's very aspirational, right,

1342
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 1: like if you watch football, or you watch basketball or

1343
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: any sport. Every man just about who watches sports wishes

1344
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: they were the pro athlete, right like you wish you

1345
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: were the man literally in the and and I watched

1346
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 1: I also watched like beat Bobby Flay. I wish I

1347
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: could cook like Bobby, right, I wish I was as

1348
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: much of a bass or you watch like Bear Grills,

1349
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, man, I wish I was

1350
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 1: able to go out in the woods and be that

1351
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 1: big of a badass or or you know, like something

1352
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 1: uh something like even fictional television you know you watch

1353
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 1: like a badass tech yeah, or you know like you

1354
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,480
Speaker 1: watch it's aspirational, like you wish you were that guy.

1355
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 1: Very often the way men watch other men on television.

1356
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people look at Aaron

1357
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 1: Hernandez and as a moment with Jose Bayaz where like

1358
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: when they're setting for the jury and a juror walks in.

1359
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:06,600
Speaker 1: Maybe he ended up on the jury or maybe not,

1360
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: but she's like they overhear her say, oh my god,

1361
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 1: he's gorgeous, right, And I think a lot of men

1362
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,719
Speaker 1: who watched this documentary are going to think, my god,

1363
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: I wish I could have been the athlete that Aaron

1364
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,639
Speaker 1: her Nandez was. I wish I was as good looking

1365
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: as he was. And one of the one of the

1366
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 1: contexts that they talked about a lot is how could

1367
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: he give all of that away? And the answer is

1368
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: because ultimately he was not a happy person? Right and

1369
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: then and the guy I thought who you guys had,

1370
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 1: who was Odin? Lloyd's friend said, you know, like a

1371
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: lot of people look at Aaron Hernandez and say like

1372
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: Odin was the guy who was happy, right, the guy

1373
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: that he murdered, even though he wasn't the pro athlete,

1374
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: and even though he didn't have the multimillion dollar mansion

1375
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: or the multimillion dollar football contract, Odin was the one

1376
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 1: who was happy in his life. Yep, was richez was poor. Yeah,

1377
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: Mike Matthews like the three Philosopher man he's deep and

1378
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: uh yeah, but it's true. Odin was the happiest, go

1379
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,799
Speaker 1: lucky guy. They all just said. He just he worked,

1380
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 1: hung out with his girlfriend. He had a great relationship

1381
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:14,600
Speaker 1: with his family, little sisters, his mom. You know, he

1382
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: broke some blunts. He's really good, the blunt nester. He

1383
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: was chilling out. Man. He was great. Everything was good,

1384
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, and uh ned didn't have a problem. He

1385
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: grew up in a very very very tough neighborhood where

1386
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 1: Odin Lloyd grew up very tough area in Dorchester, and

1387
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: he just skated through it. That was that was kind

1388
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: of all the trouble that he like, I think he

1389
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: said mass he says it. He's like I didn't. We

1390
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 1: didn't think you gotta be on the either side of

1391
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: the gun. Just he just slipped right through right, gang

1392
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,720
Speaker 1: infested neighborhood and drugs, all the different problems they have

1393
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 1: in that section at Dorchester, No problem. Odin made it.

1394
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 1: And so he makes it all the way through and

1395
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 1: he's twenty seven. He's doing fine, and his girlfriend's gonna

1396
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: be a lawyer and everything's going great. And he says

1397
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: the state he spake gangster killed them. Just you know, unbelievable,

1398
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: unbelievable stuff, Dan Wetzel, I mean, it's a phenomenal documentary.

1399
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 1: Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted

1400
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: to have the opportunity to say about the document How many?

1401
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 1: How many last question for you, like from a procedure process,

1402
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 1: like how long did you sit for all the interviews

1403
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 1: that they end up running during the course of this?

1404
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:24,839
Speaker 1: Is that I didn't know? Yeah I didn't conduct the interviews.

1405
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah story, but yeah it was just one day in Brooklyn. Uh.

1406
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's a phenomenal thing. So down the line,

1407
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 1: do you want to do more documentaries like this? Um? Sure,

1408
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think I like telling stories and so

1409
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: it's whatever medium. You know, I have a lot of

1410
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories. It's it's is the best medium?

1411
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 1: You know? A book? Is it? Is it? You know?

1412
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's always gonna be the daily columns on Yavoo.

1413
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, um, is it? Is it? This type of thing?

1414
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: Is it? Uh? Is it? You know whatever? Whatever it

1415
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 1: is as a motion picture, you know anything? Uh, you know,

1416
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: I just think there's I think like this particular case,

1417
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: this story was so much more powerful when you could

1418
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 1: watch and hear it yourself. It's just you know, the

1419
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 1: most powerful parts. You know, almost no one's like that.

1420
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: What's coming out of that thing going that Aeron Hernandez

1421
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: documentary is unbelievable. That one guy in the blue suit,

1422
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So you know, I mean that's not

1423
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,760
Speaker 1: you're like, did you hear this? Did you see when

1424
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: crafted looked at you know, that's and that's the thing, Like,

1425
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: you want to tell a story the best possible way,

1426
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: and in this one there was so I got why

1427
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: people didn't follow it on court court footage, because there

1428
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: was there's weeks of it. But if you did, you saw,

1429
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, if you were there, you saw this amazing

1430
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 1: testimony between these guys. So I appreciate it. It's it's

1431
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:58,799
Speaker 1: certainly been an interesting process. It's a it's a terrible story,

1432
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel bad about it, the whole

1433
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 1: thing in a lot of ways. But it was certainly, uh, certainly,

1434
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 1: his story unlike any other ever covered well. You can

1435
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: find Dan Wetzel on Twitter at dan Wetzel. You can

1436
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 1: see him in the documentary. I'm guessing just about everybody

1437
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 1: who's listened to this has has already watched it by now.

1438
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: This has been a lot of fun to unpack. I

1439
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 1: appreciate the time and uh again, this has been wins

1440
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: and losses. I'm Clay Travis, he's Dan Wetzel. I hope

1441
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed it. Thank you.