1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to this informed a mini series from There 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd. This week, 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Australian social media users suddenly found themselves banned from sharing 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: content on Facebook. This was an escalation of Facebook's attempts 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: to resist the Australian government's push to make big tech 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: companies pay news publishers when news content shows up in 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: their search results and their platforms, and according to FT, 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: it's one of the most far reaching restrictions Facebook has 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: ever placed on publishers in any part of the world. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: This comes as Google struck a separate deal with Rupert 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Murdot's News Corps to pay for some of their news content, 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: resolving their ongoing dispute with the Australian media giant. Last month, 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: Google threatened to pull out of Australia altogether. Now the 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Facebook ban is far reaching. It blocks post from any 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: Australian publisher from being seen anywhere in the world, and 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: it blocks all users in Australia from seeing any news content, 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: even from non Australian publishers. The Washing and Post reports 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: Facebook used the broadest definition of news content, so it's 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: not just impacting news publishers, organizations like nonprofits, and activist organizations, 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: many of whom rely on social media to get their 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: message and resources out there, were unable to do so 22 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: so for services like food banks or domestic violence centers, 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: some of whom found themselves blocked from posting. Facebook's hasty 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: move could keep people from getting access to critical resources 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: during a pandemic. We need to talk about the ways 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: this move will impact Australians who use the Internet to 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: do important work. People like digital organizer Tabitha Falker. Tabitha 28 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: and I met in the United States when I was 29 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: running a boot camp for digital activists. Today she runs 30 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: organized US, an organization that trains Australian activists to use 31 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: the Internet and social media to make change. I joined 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: her in Australia to help train digital activists in and 33 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: she's been fighting for change since college. When I was 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: at university, I got involved in grassroots environmental activism, so 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I was actually going to get into first and helping 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: stopping them getting cut down for wood chips, and so 37 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: I very much started my kind of career, I guess 38 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: as it's become an activism as a university student, just 39 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: seeing some injustices in the world and wanting to make 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: some positive change around them. UM. And that led me 41 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: into actually changing my major and becoming a journalist, and 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: from there, after working on daily newspapers for years, I 43 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: really missed the progressive sector, so I took a full 44 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: time role at a big national environmental organization where I 45 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: was lucky enough to join that just at the time 46 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: where digital technologies really started to shape the way that 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: organizations were talking to their supporters. But through that I 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: kind of found myself again realizing that there was a 49 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: lack of skills and understanding of what digital technologies can do, 50 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: and I left that organization to start up Organize US, 51 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: which is a digital communication and training agency, so we 52 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: work with lots of different nonprofits and grassroots organizers, both 53 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: helping them to develop their digital strategy and roll that out, 54 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: but also running a really comprehensive training program. And that's 55 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: actually where I met you, Bridget, when I was lucky 56 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: enough to come across to the US and learn under 57 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: some amazing digital organizers UM in how to both use 58 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: technology but also how to train other people in using technology. UM. 59 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: So that was quite a life changing pivotal moment for me. 60 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: From her training work. Tabitha has tapped into a network 61 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: of Australian climate and human rights campaigners who all use 62 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: social media heavily in their work, and she says the 63 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: Facebook band that panicked the real community. So we all 64 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: grabbed out our phones and went to log onto our 65 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: Facebook pages and suddenly noticed that we couldn't share or 66 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: post any news articles. And actually, for a lot of 67 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: nonprofit organizations, their Facebook profiles were entirely blank. So the 68 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: bandit images gone and all the content was gone from 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: their fees. Um, and we went, oh God, what's going 70 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: on here? And so jumped onto news sites and quickly 71 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: realized that Facebook had decided to implement their new sharing 72 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: band across the platform for anyone in Australia. So that 73 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: basically means that you can't access or share any news 74 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: articles of Australian media or international media across their platform 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: if you're residing in Australia. Um, we knew that this 76 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: was a possibility for a little while. So Australia, the 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: Australian government has been in conversations with Facebook for a 78 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: while around this idea that Facebook should be paying news 79 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: agencies like Rupert Murdoch to have access to news on 80 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: their platform. So there's been a really big tussle going 81 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: on politically and Facebook basically A large piece of that 82 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: legislation passed our House of Representatives last week and is 83 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: likely to pass our upper house, the Senate within a 84 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: week's time. So I guess Facebook realized that it needed 85 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: to kind of fire rewarding shot about what this new 86 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: new media landscape would look like if the Australian government 87 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: went ahead with creating this legislation. So how is Facebook 88 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: able to do this and what were some of the 89 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: impacts that you saw? Well, the problem was is that 90 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: there and the problem is is that there's no legal 91 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: definition of what news is in Australia. So Facebook has 92 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: turned around and said, well, if there isn't a legal 93 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: definition of what news is that we can agree on, 94 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: we're going to take the broadest term of what news is. 95 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: And that is how it's impacted a lot of government 96 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: Facebook pages, health based Facebook pages, and nonprofit and community 97 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: organizing Facebook pages. They sort of cast the net really 98 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: why to show that it's going to be really difficult 99 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: to regulate this piece of legislation if it goes through. 100 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: And so for us UM it was really difficult because, 101 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: first of all, we're in a global pandemic and people 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: are relying on social media that access health information, and 103 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: there were local and community pages that are giving that 104 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: information who suddenly found their entire Facebook feed empty of content. UM. 105 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: And also a lot of amazing campaigns and organizations that 106 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: have invested time, energy and money into developing these Facebook 107 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: communities over years and years and years find panicking that 108 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: all of that hard work and that community was now gone. 109 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: So there was definitely a sense of panic, and we 110 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: noticed that my inbox started to explode, my messaging was exploding, 111 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: because we worked with so many organizations across their digital 112 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: where they were saying, our pages are blame. What's going on? 113 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: And so we reached out to Facebook UM and pulled 114 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: together a spreadship. Currently in that spreadsheet there's over two 115 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: hundred nonprofits and community groups whose pages have been impacted. 116 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: So we've put out the call and organizations have been 117 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: listing their issues. So basically there's two issues. One is that, 118 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: as I've already explained, the pages are entirely blank of 119 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: content or a second issue UM and you could fall 120 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: into both of these categories or just one of these categories. 121 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: The second issue is that organizations found that they could 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: no longer post web links from their own websites. So 123 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: for example, the Australian Council of Trade Unions couldn't post 124 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: the link to their Join the Union page. It was 125 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: blocked and so Facebook UM. We reached out to Facebook 126 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: and they told us that they were taking the broadest 127 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: sense of what the news was, but that they did 128 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: not expect government political and some non news and UM 129 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: non for profit pages to be impacted by yesterday's announcement, 130 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: and that the actions that they were taking were focused 131 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: on restricting publishers and people in Australia from sharing of 132 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: viewing Australian and international news content. The problem was is 133 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: that they implemented this incredibly fast based on the government's process, 134 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: and it's it's caused chaos. There's been a lot of 135 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: issues and a lot of bleachers. So they've are start 136 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: in good faith to give them that spreadsheet and that 137 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: they are going through and reinstating those pages that are 138 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: impacted UM. And of those five hundred pages, I've had 139 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: to look this morning and about ten of being reinstated 140 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: so far UM and they're moving through and have committed 141 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: to be reinstating those pages. I've read reports of food 142 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: banks having their Facebook pages be blocked, you know, domestic 143 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: violence shelters. We're we're still in a pandemic, and it's 144 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: you know, the idea that Facebook would allow for people 145 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: who are providing critical services, time sensitive critical services, you know, food, 146 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: domestic violence, this stuff can't wait. The fact that they 147 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: would block these pages as a as a kind of 148 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: bargaining ship, it's really something. It is really something. But 149 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: I do I do want to clarify that I don't 150 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: think it's as a war between Facebook and the Australian government. 151 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: I think this is a war between Facebook and Rupert Murdoch. 152 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: And so we have two massive monopolies. We've got the 153 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: traditional media monopoly with a figurehead of Rupert Murdoch, and 154 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: then we've got this new media landscape and monopoly with 155 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: the head of Zuckerberg. And so this is really a 156 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: money grabbing exercise. So I think that when you look 157 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: at the Media Bargaining Code, which is this piece of 158 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: legislation that we're talking about, the code itself is really flawed, 159 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: as had a flawed approach from the start um Facebook 160 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: blocking access to news for Australians is just one of 161 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: the possible outcomes of this proposal. If we're really serious 162 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: about looking at media ownership and having a fair democratic 163 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: need your landscape, both in the traditional media and the 164 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: new media. We need people who are making decisions around this, 165 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: that are informed on these technologies, who are understanding that 166 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: these are these are also communities. It's not straight broadcast 167 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: media in that traditional term, and that fundamentally Facebook doesn't 168 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: have to be putting up news media because they're privately 169 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: owned company, so they have done that in the past. 170 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: So I think that there are some big, broad philosophical 171 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: conversations that we need to be having around the future 172 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: of media, both in the traditional sense and the new 173 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: media sense. This dispute between Facebook and Rupert Madak has 174 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: created big problems for digital organizers like Tabitha, But as 175 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: a campaigner and a former journalist, someone whose work involves 176 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: persuasion and sending an effective method, she kind of understands 177 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: it as a tactic. Rupert Myrtop has a direct line 178 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: of communication with Australia's Prime Minister. So I think that 179 00:10:54,960 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: as much as I entirely disagree with Facebook's approach of King, 180 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: so many pages and so many incredibly vital pages. I do. 181 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: I do understand the approach and the we're campaigners, and 182 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: so if I was going to run a campaign on 183 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: this front, you would be thinking about there's a threat 184 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: of legislation being implemented in five days time. We need 185 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: to show what the impact of this could look like. 186 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: And Australia is being used as that case study and 187 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: that scapegoat in that. So Facebook really needs to reinstate 188 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: these pages. If they're going to keep UM that community 189 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: spirit alive on its platforms, it needs to understand and 190 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: apologize for this with its community. But I also a 191 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: part of me is as a as a reform journalist, 192 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: as I like to call it. I understand the war 193 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: the why they've taken this approach. UM news media in 194 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Australia accounts for about four percent of the content that's 195 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: across Facebook, and I think that there are some incredibly 196 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: clever campaigners and organizers who have already noticed that. Over 197 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: the last twelve months face this book has kind of 198 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: been moving in this direction. If you post you news 199 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: link on your your page, your engagement is really low. 200 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: But if you are repurposing that news and repurposing that 201 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: content through the voice of your supporters and the voice 202 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: of your community, then your engagement spikes. So as digital 203 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: organizers and content creators, we need to be thinking about 204 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: how we are telling our own stories in our own way, um, 205 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: and really focusing in on that engagement. Having said that, 206 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: then that also does bring real concerns around misinformation being 207 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: portrayed across these platforms when we can't have really solid, factorious, 208 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: factor checked independent reportage on these platforms as well. That's 209 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: such a great point, and I know that as a 210 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: digital organizer and your network of digital organizers, you know, 211 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: y'all are some of the most innovative folks out there. 212 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: Have folks already sort of talking about, you know, creative 213 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: ways around it, like how you're going to sort of 214 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: innovate so that you can still get your message out 215 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: there even with Facebook doing these kinds of things. Definitely, 216 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: So we you facilitated a snap webinar yesterday afternoon UM 217 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: with most of the progressive organizers across Australia, so everyone, 218 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: hundreds of people jumped onto a webinar and we started 219 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: to have that exact conversation. First of all, we just 220 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: wanted to let everyone know that we've been having these 221 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: conversations and that Facebook is promising to reinstate these pages, 222 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: but then we stepped into the space to have those conversations. 223 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: So UM, basically it's like how to tell the news 224 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: without having to actually link across your news and there 225 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: are some really interesting, fun and creative ways of doing that. UM, 226 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: And we've started having that shared conversation and and up 227 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: skilling everybody to be thinking about what does this look like. 228 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: Everyone's really happy to move away from the Rupert Murdoch press. Um. 229 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: The part of this that is really strung is going 230 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: to continue to struggle is like independent media, um, satire, 231 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: political commentary, because they are all currently falling under that 232 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: definition of news and losing their ability to post their content. 233 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: So I mean, there's a really good opportunity for cartoonists, 234 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: for graphic designers, for video creators to think about new 235 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: ways and sharing news and getting that information across bloody hell. 236 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: Hopefully Facebook does reverse its decision and we can start 237 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: to share news links again, because ideally this isn't the 238 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: way we want to continue going forward. What do you 239 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: think about the idea that Facebook, just one company, has 240 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: the this kind of power to really shape the entire 241 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: media landscape of Australia, Like, what do you think of 242 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: one company having that power to have that kind of impact. 243 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a flawed approach, but and sadly, 244 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: we've been living in a monopoly media landscape for a 245 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: really long time. UM, So I don't agree that Facebook 246 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: should be able to hold that kind of power, and 247 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: I also don't agree that large organizations like news Corp 248 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: could be holding that amount of power. UM decision was 249 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: made federal again, government decision was made a few years 250 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: ago which enabled Rupert Murdoch to buy up most of 251 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: the regional newspapers across Australia, and in the last twelve 252 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: months they've closed a hundred and twelve local newspapers just 253 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: close to them and moved them into a digital landscape. 254 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: So if if the news agencies and news um monopolies 255 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: are really serious about driving revenue, they should be continuing 256 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: these publications and allowing local ad spends to feel their 257 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: business models. So I disagree that Facebook should be funding 258 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: Rupert Murdock's business model, but I also disagree that Facebook 259 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: should be a labled to basically run tax free in 260 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: so many countries across the world as well, So if 261 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: we need to be looking at the way big TEP 262 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: is regulated um at that federal level. But I don't 263 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: think that it should just be an argument between traditional 264 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: media and new media and allowed to create the dis course. Definitely, 265 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I think that something that you 266 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: really point out that I think is essential is that 267 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: you know, in this in these two factions of media warring, 268 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: it's independent journalism, it's local journalism. It's it's people making 269 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: content that are already marginalized or having a hard time 270 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: getting that platform, who I feel can really be in 271 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: the cross hairs. And it's important to lift up the 272 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: folks who are you know, doing that work, whether it's 273 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, local journalists or you know satire or folks 274 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: who may not have this big platform. And I worry 275 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: that it's those already marginalized creators and you know, UH 276 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: jur and media makers who are going to be most 277 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: hurt by these kinds of decisions. Absolutely, it would be 278 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: a great outcome of this battle if UH independent media, 279 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: satires um political commentators who are able to get a 280 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: seat at the table and developer categorization of what news 281 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: is and allow these small UM thought provoking think tanks 282 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: to still be able to build up their audiences across 283 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: these platforms and hold those communities. Imagine if we were 284 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: able to kind of dulve the noise of the right 285 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: wing or the group of myrtal owned media across these 286 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: platforms and enabled these smaller ones to have a bigger 287 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: voice and take up more space on that that would 288 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: be a fantastic outcome of this process. That's exactly what 289 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: I want to see globally, you know, more people being 290 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: included in the conversation and having a seat at the 291 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: table and a real voice and not just big right 292 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: wing noise machines being able to drown everyone else out. 293 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: So what's next, you know, what's the path forward? We 294 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: get creative, We come together as a community, We hold 295 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Facebook accountable and make Facebook recognize that it has been Like, 296 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: the nonprofit sector is huge, and they've invested money, resources, 297 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: energy and time into building these communities and they need 298 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: to reinstate these pages immediately UM and ensure that they 299 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: are continue to be thriving communities UM, particularly around these 300 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: issues that everyone's advocating for. But then I think this 301 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: is a great opportunity as organizers to become together and 302 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: be super creative thinking about how we are telling our 303 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: own stories, relying less on traditional media, coming up with 304 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: creative ways of amplifying diverse voices, diverse ways of developing content, 305 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: and ensuring that we also are stepping out into a 306 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: whole bunch of different platforms that are allowing our stories 307 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: to be told and and not holding us accountable based 308 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: on these decisions in this legislation. Is there anybody or 309 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: any organization out there who you think is really doing 310 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: cutting edge creative work around getting their story out there? Um. 311 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: Funnily enough, I've fallen in love with a couple of 312 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: different news um sources on Instagram who were just simply 313 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: using the slide technique to tell news media stories really quickly, 314 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: so in sound bites. UM. I think that that's fantastic. 315 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: There's a woman, Jess Harwood, who has just been thriving 316 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: over the past twelve months. She's a cartoonist and she 317 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: is supporting the work of so many different organizations with 318 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: really creative storytelling UM and getting her work kind of 319 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: broadcast on the BBC for example. UM. I think that 320 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: there are some incredible video producers and there's an organization 321 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: in Australia that is really kind of twelve months ago 322 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: decided that it wanted to sort of step away, as 323 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: I was mentioning, from regular news media, and that's get up. 324 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: And they have just seen incredible engagement when they are 325 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: putting news stories through the voices and through the faces 326 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: of their community, of their membership based community. UM. People 327 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: are wanting to follow these pages because they're interested in 328 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: storytelling from that page's perspective, and I think we need 329 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: to remember that. But we are our own best storytellers. 330 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: I love that. How about that? Where can folks keep 331 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: up with all the amazing work that you're doing so 332 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: they can follow us at organize us dot com that 333 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: a you um jump on there. We've got a newsletter 334 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: that we're emailing out to people. We have some incredible 335 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: Facebook pages and groups that are still currently operating, and 336 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: we are running a whole comprehensive training program that is 337 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: going to be really leaning into this issue and really 338 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: encouraging organizers to be thinking about how they're creating engaging 339 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: content content across multiple channels in really fun and engaging 340 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: ways so that we're not caught up in this tussle 341 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: between traditional media and new check but when being able 342 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: to tell our our own stories, our own wife. If 343 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing. 344 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or 345 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: just want to say Hi. We'd love to hear from 346 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: you at Hello at tango dot com. Dis Informed brought 347 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: to you by There Are No Girls on the Internet. 348 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: It's a production of I Heart Radio and Unbust Creative 349 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tory Harrison is our 350 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: supervising producer, and engineer. Michael Lamtto is our contributing producer. 351 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: I'm your host Bridget Todd. For more great podcast check 352 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: out the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 353 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.