1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Defining intelligence. It's one more thing. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: I'm strong and one car. I don't they guy cad. 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Before we get to the intelligence thing or whatever the 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: hell I'm talking about. We have this, Michael, can you 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: explain what we're about to hear? 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, in Colorado, we have a driver who went out 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 3: to his car and there was a bear inside, and 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 3: that bear had gotten in and got trapped, and so 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: he calls the sheriff and the two of them try 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 3: and get this bear out of his car. 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: I find myself wondering how the bear got trapped exactly 12 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: did it shut the door behind itself. 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: I find myself wondering what I would do if I 14 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: walked out and there were a bear sitting in my 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: car with the doors closed. I might stand there for 16 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: a while and think, Hmmm, who do you call for 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: this problem? He called the sheriff. I'm not sure that's 18 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: the animal controller. 19 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would lawyer. But if you're out 20 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: in the country. Yeah, let's hear how the manufacturer exactly, 21 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: the Ford dealer. Very large bear in the front seat. 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he looks pissed. 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: So we can type some type some para cord to 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: the door, and then we can get back and we 25 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: can pull it open. Yogi, calm down, I hit it 26 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: on auto car. 27 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 3: You're fine that you can buff that out. You guys 28 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 3: are totally fine. 29 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: I think what's more impressive is that he opened it 30 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: and then pursued it to close it behind. Yeah, Yogi 31 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: has been released from the vehicle. I get it. The 32 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: idea is how we need to figure out a way 33 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: to open the doors but not be like so close 34 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: it if it comes out mad, Yeah, it tears our 35 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: faces off. 36 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, the video is way longer than that, but yeah, 37 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: they come up with this plan and tie a couple 38 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 2: of things together and stand back and pull the handle open. 39 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: And couldn't do that with your mod Darren Tesla, could you? Huh? No? 40 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: The bear just stay in there. We drive away with 41 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: your car. That was charming, So as a were in 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: the car where the driver was, somebody's eating berries on 43 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: your feet. 44 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: That's an example perhaps of what I'm about to talk 45 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: about with intelligence here is those police officers came across 46 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: the situation they've never had before and figured out a 47 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: way to handle it. I have always, not always as 48 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: an adult, been interested in what is smart mean, what 49 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: does intelligent even mean? And now that I'm a parent, 50 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: I really wonder about it because I blame academics. Academics 51 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: have mostly defined it, defined it clearly, Hello, not a 52 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: step in the right direction. 53 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: Failed. 54 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: Academics have defined intelligence in a way that suits them. 55 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: It's the kind of intelligence they have. Oh, what a shock. 56 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: You came up with a way of measuring intelligence that 57 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: puts you at the top of the heap in that 58 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: grand And that is actually what has happened. And I 59 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: don't think we've we do at all. We don't have 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: the right words, We don't have the right concept. Even 61 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: shouldn't intelligence be whatever mental ability allows you to succeed 62 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: in the world best. I don't care about math or science, 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: or music, or maybe emotional intelligence, although I think that 64 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: is important to one. It doesn't matter whichever combination allows 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: you to succeed as a human being. That's what should 66 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: be called smart. Yeah, I know a couple of people 67 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: that are book smart that are just completely stupid when 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: it comes to everything. That's what I'm saying. We have 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: our labels. Our labels are so insufficient for what I 70 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: just defined, which should be the only way to define smart. 71 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: You're able to make your way in the world. We 72 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: all know plenty of people that are what we usually 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: define as smart who function horribly in the world, whether 74 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: whether it's with their own finances or relationships, or can't 75 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: hold the job or whatever. 76 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: It is, right, and it pains me to admit this 77 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: is somebody is fairly verbal, but a verbal intelligence is 78 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: overrated being glib, being an effective communicator, although it is 79 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: a great skill, it is. I know people who are 80 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: fairly quiet, maybe a little bit shy, but they are 81 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: spectacularly effective at planning, running, growing a business. 82 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: For instance, I'm working towards something with a guy who's 83 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: got a book out about this, but it just it's 84 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, it scratched me where I itch because I've 85 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: wondered about this for a long time. And like I said, 86 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: now that I've got kids, I'm I'm only worried about 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: what kind of skills or way of looking at the 88 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: world they need to go out there and succeed. I 89 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: don't care about a score on any particular kind of 90 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: test or either. The test is living life and surviving 91 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: and being happy. That's the test. 92 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: And really it's good to bottom line it like that, 93 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: because getting your kid into the perfect kindergarten there in 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: Manhattan or whatever. And then the perfect school seventy five 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year to get an Ivy League education 96 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: and a degree. Blah blah blah. It all boils down 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: to can they be successful at life? However you want 98 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: to define that. 99 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: So I picked this up from Econ Talks Russ Roberts. 100 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: That's one of the best podcasts it's ever existed. He 101 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: is one of the first people to have a podcast 102 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, so it caught on Super 103 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: Smart Guy. It's almost never about economics. He went through 104 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: all the economics stuff like twenty years ago. It's called 105 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: Econ Talk still because that is the name of the 106 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: popular show, but he talks about everything, historians, musicians, whatever 107 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: the hell. And he had this author on yesterday, a 108 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: guy named Angus Fletcher who says we've misdefined intelligence, which 109 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: I've long believed, equating it with data driven reasoning in 110 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: place of what he calls primal intelligence, which is as 111 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: good a phrase as any for just what's going to 112 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: allow you to survive world the uniquely human ability to 113 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: think and plan in situations with incomplete information. That's about 114 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: as good a definition of what intelligence ought to be 115 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: is anything I can come up with the ability to 116 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: think and plan in situations with incomplete information, And people 117 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: who can do that well make it through life okay, 118 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: and people who can't don't. 119 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: Wow. Let's contrast that with a more conventional description of intelligence, 120 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: which might well be the ability to spout, which is 121 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: a prejudicial word. Accumulated knowledge, right, which is not a 122 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: terrible standard. I think more knowledge is good generally. 123 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: But just another tool or something. 124 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: I love that definition. 125 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty good. And this guy has got a 126 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: bunch of degrees in a bunch of different things. But 127 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: he worked in Hollywood for quite a while. We're with 128 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: screenplays and stuff like that, how they hold together and 129 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: how it fits in with the human brain and understanding things, 130 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: which was really interesting. Drawing on years of work in 131 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: Hollywood and working with elite military operators, he showed how 132 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: narratives aren't just entertainment, they're the foundation of human intelligence. 133 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: He reveals why military special operations personnel need to create 134 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: new plans on the fly, and how a lot of 135 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: great literature movies and that sort of stuff, unexpected things 136 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: happen and people have to deal with them, and we 137 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: learn from those things about dealing with unexpected situations and 138 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: what to do in that circumstance. I just thought that 139 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: was a really fascinating way to look at a definition 140 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: of intelligence. He believes. Now, of course I like this 141 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: because I do this, so I have confirmation and bias 142 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: on this. Why reading challenging literature literally rewires your brain 143 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: for greater adaptability, He says, I read a lot of 144 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: complicated literature. I always have enjoy it. Has that improved 145 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: my life and in that manner? I don't know, but 146 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: he said he believes he has proof of that, and 147 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 1: also working with lots of military people whose whole thing 148 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: is all of a sudden, your plan ran up against reality. 149 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: Your plan no longer works. Now you've got to come 150 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: up with something new with what little information you have 151 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: to go forward. That's all of life. That's that's every 152 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: bit of life, the new job you started, the raising kids, 153 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: every day, it's raising kids, your marriage, you're just everything. 154 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, that's stuff provoking. 155 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: It really is. I wonder how much you can get 156 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: better at it, though, he suggests in his book and 157 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: I listened to the podcast, that we can improve that skill. Normally, 158 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: the insufficient terms we use for intelligence is kind of 159 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: like baked in. You either are or aren't. I don't 160 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: know how much you could you can get. You can 161 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: get more knowledge, can't really change the wattage of your 162 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: brain power, but he's seems to believe that you could. 163 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: You can become much better at adapting to new storylines, 164 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: new narratives. 165 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've often thrown around twenty percent just because I 166 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: don't know it seems right. You're an introvert. You can 167 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: probably get about twenty percent more extroverted if you work 168 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 2: at it and talk to yourself about why that's worth 169 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: it and how you're glad you went to the gathering 170 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. But you're never going to becomm an extrovert. 171 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: And if you are, you know, bad at math, you 172 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 2: can bust your butt and get at least functional, but 173 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 2: you're never gonna, you know, start lecturing people on string 174 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: theory or whatever. Oh it's so different, you see my point. 175 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: I mean, if you have no musical talent. I've known 176 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: people who I remember this in grade school. It struck 177 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: me at the time, as we would do little melodies 178 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: on the xylophones and stuff. I had a great music 179 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: teacher as an elementary school kid. But there are some 180 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: kids who just had nothing. 181 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: That's shoe on the xylophone right there, and they. 182 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: Couldn't carry a tune. From childhood through adulthood. You might 183 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 2: be able to get twenty percent better, but you are 184 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: never going to sing at the met or even like 185 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: you know, busk on a street corner. You're just not. 186 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: So I can see that sort of problem solving ability 187 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: getting somewhat better, but I think that's probably one of 188 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 2: those distinct kinds of intelligence that either have it or 189 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: you don't. Of course, if you've got Boco Haram shooting 190 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: at you, and you can tell me if you do this, 191 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: you'll get twenty percent better at, you know, fixing problems, 192 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: overcoming obstacles, and staying alive. I'm really really interested in 193 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 2: that twenty percent. So I'm intrigued whether you can develop 194 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: it a lot or a little. It's worth developing. 195 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: Why do you think it's so well? I may have 196 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: answered the question the beginning academics measure it in such 197 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: a way that prizes what they're good at. That might 198 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: be a lot of it, But I understand why we 199 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: don't have a more clear cut way of kind of 200 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: ascertaining where people are on the gonna succeed at life 201 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: scale as opposed to you're gonna succeed in college. Whoopedi shit? 202 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: I mean you know whatever? 203 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah right. I think part of it is that 204 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: it's much easier to measure, and it's not useless. I 205 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: mean you you throw around phrases like whoop de shit 206 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: and I quote which is a little dismissive. 207 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: That's from my dad. 208 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: That was his phrase for things love. Yeah, because it's 209 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: not useless. But how how do you measure what you're 210 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: talking about? Like ability to thrive in life? Especially, here's 211 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: where it gets crazy complicated. You have that ability in spades, 212 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: and you decide to dedicate your life to educating poor kids. 213 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 2: So who's in charge of counting the number of little 214 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:11,239 Speaker 2: kids whose lives you've changed? I mean, accumulating wealth obviously 215 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: comes to mind, but there are plenty of people who 216 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: decide that's not what I'm about, or having accumulated to 217 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: get rid of it all or most of it, So 218 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: I don't Maybe it's so difficult to measure far smarter 219 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: I could answer your question, but clearly I'm sorry I've failed. 220 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 3: Hum Well, I guess that's it.