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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know Frondhouse stuff Works dot Com. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, and this is Stuff you should Know. There's

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Speaker 1: Jerry too. By the way, Jerry, he's ready for January. Me. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're ready for a new year. I'm ready for this

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Speaker 1: year to be done. Yeah. I think it's been kind

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Speaker 1: of cool year. No, it's been fun. I'm just I'm tired.

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Speaker 1: I feel i'd be much more rested in It's October.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've got a little ways to go. I

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Speaker 1: know this is my favorite month too. I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: drag you, Hippy. You're gonna start saying far out next

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Speaker 1: starting to it is far out, so Chuck. Yes, I'm

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Speaker 1: very curious. Do you have any patents to your name? Now? Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't have an inventive mind. I don't either.

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Speaker 1: My brother does, and he has had some good ideas

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Speaker 1: that have later been made into inventions. Why didn't he

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Speaker 1: patent them? I don't know. Man. Every every time I

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Speaker 1: see a new one, I sent it to h and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I remember when he had this idea twelve years ago. Scott. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? I know, Well he's got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of pinball tables, so he's doing all right. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't own the patent on them though, Um no, but

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Speaker 1: he could, you know why, because it's America, that's right.

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Speaker 1: So it turns out, chuck um and doing a little

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Speaker 1: bit of research, that there's mention of patents and patent

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Speaker 1: protection in the Constitution, dude, not even the Bill of Rights.

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Speaker 1: Freedom of speech isn't even mentioned in the constitutions and

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Speaker 1: the Bill of Rights, but patent protection is in the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: Article one, Section eight, clause eight, which is known as

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Speaker 1: the Intellectual Property Clause, and it says, quote, Congress shall

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Speaker 1: have the power ellips to promote the progress of science

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Speaker 1: and useful arts by securing, for limited times to authors

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Speaker 1: and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.

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Speaker 1: And since this is the late eighteenth century, a lot

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Speaker 1: of that stuff was just like randomly capitalized, like a

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Speaker 1: sixth grader wrote it or something right, And my apologies

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Speaker 1: to all of you six grade listeners out there who

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Speaker 1: know your capitalization like we love proper now. So um,

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Speaker 1: it's in the Constitution. Like if you invent something that's

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Speaker 1: new and novel and cool. We think you should have

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Speaker 1: some sort of government sanctioned monopoly over that, at least

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Speaker 1: for a limited amount of time. You know why, because

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Speaker 1: very early on the United States said we want to

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Speaker 1: encourage uh inventiveness and forward thinking, an entrepreneurship and great ideas.

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Speaker 1: They were on board pretty early. Even though it's a

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Speaker 1: sort of a mess these days, which we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: against the end, we will. Yeah, but yeah, the whole point,

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Speaker 1: the whole purpose of a patent system and apparently every

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Speaker 1: it's one of the hallmarks of the m of the

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Speaker 1: modern society, I guess, is to have a patent office.

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Speaker 1: It says we value innovation, we value technological progress, artistic progress, um,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to show a commitment to that by

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Speaker 1: by basically saying you you have again. I guess the

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Speaker 1: best way to put it is a monopoly on your

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Speaker 1: invention for a limited amount of time. And it harkens

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Speaker 1: back um. Apparently the first patent was issued in fourteen

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Speaker 1: nine in jolly old England by King Henry the sixth,

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Speaker 1: who gave it to a guy who didn't even have

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Speaker 1: a last name. Well, yeah, of Utnam is not a

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Speaker 1: last name, that's where you're from. It sounds like I'm

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Speaker 1: Josh of Toledo. I'm just saying this midi evil. It's

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Speaker 1: not the sixteenth century. Uh No, it's not so. U

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Speaker 1: John of Unam got a patent from King Henry the

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Speaker 1: sixth for stained glass manufacturing. Yeah, back then patents in

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Speaker 1: England were it was a little bit different. It was

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Speaker 1: more like, Hey, we want to protect the crown and

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Speaker 1: our country and our good friends and our good good

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Speaker 1: friends of the Crown, and um make sure that if

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Speaker 1: they have an idea that we can go after anyone

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Speaker 1: else in any other country, even if it's something like

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Speaker 1: stained glass that's already clearly being done in places like Italy. Right.

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Speaker 1: It was basically like, you know, officially, are the only

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Speaker 1: person who can make stained glass. It was a bit

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Speaker 1: of a sham. Yeah, they would. They would give out

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Speaker 1: patents not just on an item or an idea or

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Speaker 1: an invention, but like a whole industry. So like this,

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Speaker 1: somebody held the patent on the publishing industry for a

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Speaker 1: while and apparently got out of hand because it was

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Speaker 1: just royal prerogative left and right. And yeah, it didn't

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Speaker 1: lasted that long though. The four they started to pass

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Speaker 1: statutes and laws to try and curb that abuse of power. Um,

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Speaker 1: anyway they could and make it a little more like

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Speaker 1: the patent system that we know and support today. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They were like, the Crown can't give out patents unless

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Speaker 1: it's for a new invention. Yeah. So yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: is very similar to what we have today. UM. So

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Speaker 1: right off the fat, America's like new country. We're setting

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Speaker 1: up a patent office. Um. And the first person to

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Speaker 1: get a patent in the United States was one Samuel Hopkins.

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Speaker 1: Hopkins is the last name, not Samuel of Pittsburgh, Samuel Hopkins. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he got a patent for, UM an improvement in making

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Speaker 1: in the making of potash? Is that potash or potash?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I said it eight different ways in

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Speaker 1: my head earlier. Well one of those, right, yes. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so he held the first patent. Actually, the person

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Speaker 1: that reviewed his patent was a man named Thomas Jefferson. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He was big on innovation, as was Lincoln. And Lincoln

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Speaker 1: is the only president to actually hold a patent. Um.

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Speaker 1: He got a boat stuck one time in the river

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, that'd be neat if we could find

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Speaker 1: a way to not get boats stuck, right, So he

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Speaker 1: devised a system to unstick boats when they were stuck

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Speaker 1: on a sandbar for the river was too shallow or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: by inflating some booie's that would just basically let you

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Speaker 1: float over. And they were like, President Lincoln, that's a

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Speaker 1: great idea. Here's your patents. Well he was a congressman

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Speaker 1: at the time, but yeah, he's the only president to

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Speaker 1: hold a patent. Uh. And then Jefferson handled the application

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Speaker 1: process for a while before passing it off to um,

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Speaker 1: you know, other cabinet members. And then eventually they're like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we this is all out of hand.

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Speaker 1: We need to establish our own patent office. And they

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Speaker 1: did so a E ten o two. Yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: they grossly underestimated the number of patent applications they were

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Speaker 1: going to receive. People got their invention on. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: first patent um that Samuel Hopkins received, UM Jefferson examined,

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Speaker 1: he saw it, he gave it to the Secretary of War,

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Speaker 1: who signed it, who then passed under the Attorney General

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Speaker 1: who signed it, and then President George Washington signed it.

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Speaker 1: So that wasn't a sustainable process. And then Chuck there's

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Speaker 1: like tons of millions of patents. I think like five

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Speaker 1: point seven million patents, tons of millions. Yeah, five point

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Speaker 1: seven A a ton um. Anyway, there was this notable

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Speaker 1: one that I think is kind of hilarious. Mark Twain,

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Speaker 1: beloved American humorist he invented. Who didn't like Mark Twain, Man,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of twin haters. Well, he invented the

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Speaker 1: elastic brass strap. Yeah. Uh, I wonder why he invented

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Speaker 1: and improve it an adjustable and detachable straps for garments,

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Speaker 1: which he suggested to be use for pantaloons or vests

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Speaker 1: or other garments. But basically, if you look at it,

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Speaker 1: you're like, that's a brass strap. Yeah. I bet that

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Speaker 1: the old stot garter benefited from that idea. I would

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Speaker 1: guess so. And then one other things I wondered. He

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Speaker 1: also held two other patents, one for um Witty Banter,

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Speaker 1: a game he invented a game to help players remember

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Speaker 1: important historical dates. Okay, I don't think he ever saw

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Speaker 1: a dime on that one, I'm sure. And then a

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Speaker 1: self pasting scrapbook, which wouldn't become huge until the nineties.

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Speaker 1: Self pasting means I don't know, it's already sticky. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the photo albums, you peel back the plastic and

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Speaker 1: that that sheet underneath is sticky uses static electricity. No,

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Speaker 1: it's actually sticky too, wouldn't it. I think it's static.

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Speaker 1: This is sticky. I think it's sticky. I haven't looked

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Speaker 1: at a photo of a minute while. Well, I have

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Speaker 1: to have to go to uh, I don't know, the

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Speaker 1: Hallmark store and check on out soon. Let's do it. Well,

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Speaker 1: we were going anyway, so I know the new Christmas

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Speaker 1: tournaments are. Uh so, Chuck, let's talk patents, man. Yeah, this.

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Speaker 1: I had this idea because I'm a big fan of

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Speaker 1: Shark Town, the TV show, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: patent talk, and uh I was watching it the other

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Speaker 1: day and they says, well, we have the utility patent,

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Speaker 1: but not the design patent. And I was like, I

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Speaker 1: gotta look this stuff up and see what all that means.

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Speaker 1: And um, well, we'll get to that in a second.

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Speaker 1: But let's start out and we'll probably do shows on

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Speaker 1: maybe copyright and trademark at some point. Maybe they're still

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Speaker 1: they're worth mentioning here though. Yeah, copyright, those are all

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Speaker 1: forms of intellectual protecting your intellectual property and copyright is

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Speaker 1: the easiest and most broad and wide reaching and longest

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Speaker 1: lasting form because you can just write something and it's

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Speaker 1: yours automatically in the United States. Yeah, and it lasts

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Speaker 1: um for your lifetime plus seventy years. Not bad, no, um.

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Speaker 1: And literally once you, like Chuck, if you write a

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Speaker 1: short little story, you can write. When you finish, you

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Speaker 1: can write see put a s fill around it, Chuck Bryant,

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen. And you have your official copyright. That's right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's it legally. You you're done just because you created

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Speaker 1: a work of authorship. And that's pretty great. If you're

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Speaker 1: a company and you've done, have a copyright as a

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Speaker 1: company at last um up to a hundred and twenty years,

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Speaker 1: depending on whether they publish it or not. Um. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but that's uh. Eventually it does run out and then

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Speaker 1: it can be shared and other people can make money

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Speaker 1: off of it, like for example, old um HP Lovecraft stories.

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Speaker 1: Like you or I could take a bunch of love

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Speaker 1: Craft stories. UM, let's say we wrote them, type them,

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Speaker 1: put them together, and publish them and sell those books.

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Speaker 1: Really like a collection that you don't have to get

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Speaker 1: any kind of permission for that. Nope, it's in the

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Speaker 1: public domain at that point, belong to the world. That's right. Well,

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Speaker 1: we read every Halloween. We have to read something from

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Speaker 1: the public domain, I know, because it's really expensive to

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Speaker 1: do weatherwise, it is. Trademarks are a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: They're a lot more narrow and what they protect, and

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Speaker 1: they protect designs and phrases that businesses use, or maybe

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Speaker 1: trade secrets like a formula for a soda. Those are different.

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Speaker 1: That's its own thing. Yeah, but that's still a trademark,

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Speaker 1: is it. Yeah. I thought it was separate from a trademark.

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Speaker 1: M M. I don't think so. So with a trade

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Speaker 1: says it's a trademark trade secret. Well with the trade secret, um,

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Speaker 1: it's actually uh, it can be beneficial to keep something

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Speaker 1: under wraps as a trade secret because if you have

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Speaker 1: something that you patent, you're protected for twenty years in

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Speaker 1: the United States, your patent is but part of the

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Speaker 1: patent processes we'll talk about is to publish it. You

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Speaker 1: make it every detail of it public. So then after

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Speaker 1: twenty years, when your patent runs out, anybody can go

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Speaker 1: and look at your patent and recreate it and not

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Speaker 1: give you a cent for it if it's a trade secret,

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Speaker 1: as long as no one discovers the the says secret

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Speaker 1: formula for Coke by accident or by being this American

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Speaker 1: Life and rooting it out right, and uh and then yes,

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Speaker 1: so like Coke could sue This American Life for damages.

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Speaker 1: But once it's out in the public, like, it's no

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Speaker 1: longer a trade secret and other people can use it legally. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The the other way you can do it is to

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Speaker 1: take Coke and reverse engineer it and come up with

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Speaker 1: the formula successfully that way that's not protected by trade secrets.

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Speaker 1: But then, uh, I think Coke diffused that well though

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Speaker 1: they were kind of like great, good luck. Yeah, supposedly

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Speaker 1: they keep it in a bank in a bank vault

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Speaker 1: here in Atlanta. Yeah, like you. Um. And then the

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Speaker 1: last one is a service mark, which is like a

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Speaker 1: trademark for a company that provides services rather than products.

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Speaker 1: So like if you're a plumber, you might have sm

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Speaker 1: next to your your logo. Those are the different types

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Speaker 1: of intellectual property protection protections afforded in the United States, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: But the final one, and the one we're discussing that length,

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Speaker 1: is the patent, and that is a copyright for an invention,

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Speaker 1: and the US patent law uh defines that is, quote

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Speaker 1: any new and useful process, machine manufacturer, or composition of matter,

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Speaker 1: or any new idea and useful improvement thereof and quote

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Speaker 1: and that is Uh. Well, we'll get into all that.

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Speaker 1: But the wording there is sufficiently vague and specific, because

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about inventions, it's got to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit vague. Yeah, because you don't have it all

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Speaker 1: worked out. Maybe no, because with the copyright, for example,

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Speaker 1: what you wrote down is is protected, right, the sentence structure,

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Speaker 1: the paragraphs you use, the wording you used, that's protected.

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Speaker 1: The thoughts that it's getting across about the little puppy

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Speaker 1: who got lost and came back home and everything ended

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Speaker 1: really well, like you, you're the idea of a puppy

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Speaker 1: getting lost can't be copyrighted with a patent. It's the reverse,

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Speaker 1: like the actual invention, like the platform shoe with the

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Speaker 1: goldfish tank and the heel that you invented, right, the

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Speaker 1: you can't defend that actual tangible shoe, but the idea,

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Speaker 1: the design of that shoe, that's what a patent protects. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can't steal it. Gets a little tricky with

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Speaker 1: things like writing or like movie ideas. You can't steal

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Speaker 1: someone's idea. Um, like, there could be two movies about

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Speaker 1: lost puppies. But if you could somehow prove that you

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Speaker 1: met someone in a meeting and pitched him this idea

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Speaker 1: for the Lost Puppy, and then six months later they

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Speaker 1: came out with a script for Lost Puppy, you might

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Speaker 1: have a case that they I don't know, man Um, Okay,

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Speaker 1: but think about Deep Impact and Armageddon. Let's go back

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Speaker 1: to that. Well, well, now I know that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: You can have two movies. There their lawsuits every day

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Speaker 1: filed on Hollywood over stolen intellectual ideas. But um, whether

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Speaker 1: or not successful is whether or not you can make

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Speaker 1: your case. You know, it depends upon each one. That's

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Speaker 1: a good point. So the first thing if you want

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Speaker 1: to patent an invention is that you have to uh well,

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Speaker 1: it has to be sufficiently novel, is what they say.

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Speaker 1: So it can't be uh, I mean, it can be

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Speaker 1: similar to other things, but it has to be different

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Speaker 1: enough to something that's already patented or been published in

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Speaker 1: a publication to grant the patent. Yeah, because if this

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Speaker 1: that's a really key point if if the even if

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Speaker 1: you invented something right, Um, and let's say you wrote

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Speaker 1: about your platform few with the goldfish tank in the heel, right,

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Speaker 1: if you wrote about it and don't file a patent

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Speaker 1: application if it was published, yes, within a year, Um,

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Speaker 1: you you can't file a patent after that. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: why the first thing you need to do is file

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Speaker 1: the patent. Like no one invents something and writes all

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Speaker 1: about it in the Washington Post for a year and

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Speaker 1: it's just maybe I should patent this. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: your first step. And so that's and that's that's what

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Speaker 1: makes a novel. It's new. It's a different idea. And

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Speaker 1: like you said, you can be taking different things that

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Speaker 1: already exist but putting them together in a new way

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Speaker 1: that people hadn't thought of or that wasn't what's called

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Speaker 1: um obvious. So the the invention also has to be

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Speaker 1: non obvious. Yeah, and that's what most inventions these days

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Speaker 1: are our improvements on things that already exists. Like there

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Speaker 1: are new inventions, but a lot of it Like the

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Speaker 1: great example they use in nineteen seventy seven when Jerome

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Speaker 1: Lemelson invented or got patented the idea of the cam qorder.

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Speaker 1: It was so absurd at the time. People were like,

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Speaker 1: you hit recorded video and sound at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Just that's denied. That's just silly. Get out of here.

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Speaker 1: And he said, actually, now that's kind of a good

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Speaker 1: idea and it's super easy to do because I'll have

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Speaker 1: to do is tape the tape recorder to this camera,

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Speaker 1: which is probably what he did. And uh, he was

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Speaker 1: able to get the cam chord patented. Of course, Now

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Speaker 1: if you go to the patent office and do some research,

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Speaker 1: there probably thousands of patents that have to do with

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Speaker 1: the cam quorter. Each individual little piece that someone innovates,

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Speaker 1: they can patent, like night vision on it or a

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Speaker 1: light attached to it, right exactly. But you couldn't say,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna patent a cam quorder this other guy's cam

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Speaker 1: quorder idea, but it'll be green because it's an obvious change.

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Speaker 1: Or this article gives the example of like a toaster,

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Speaker 1: Like you couldn't patent a toaster that has an extra

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Speaker 1: two slots for bread because anybody could think of that, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's that's obvious, that's no obvious. It's just a bigger toaster.

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Speaker 1: And then there's also useful um useful as kind of

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Speaker 1: the last of the triumvirate for what makes a patentable

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Speaker 1: item or invention, and like it has to be something

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Speaker 1: that works. So like the example given in this article

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Speaker 1: is like, you couldn't patent random configuration of gears because

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Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything, It doesn't work, it's not useful.

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Speaker 1: But if those gears transported, uh, you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: new way of transporting something from one place to another

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Speaker 1: more efficiently maybe than you could patentable patentable um. And

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Speaker 1: then in the same vein something that apparently the patent

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Speaker 1: office interprets something that can be used strictly for immoral purposes,

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Speaker 1: that they consider that non useful because at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, the patent office is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: doing this for the benefit of society, so I guess

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Speaker 1: they feel that they also can morally interpret things as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is that? Like, you can't patent like a whiskey

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Speaker 1: still like in your bedroom? No, I no, no, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I think it'd be more harmful than that.

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Speaker 1: Like like maybe um, a doomsday laser that only works

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Speaker 1: on children who haven't done anything to anybody. But the

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Speaker 1: doomsday laser for bad kids is great. You see my

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Speaker 1: point patentable, That was a great example if you asked me.

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Speaker 1: And then similarly, your device has to be able to

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Speaker 1: be to not just work. Like, yes, you could say, well,

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Speaker 1: this random configuration of gears will work. Why can't I

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Speaker 1: patent it? It's because it's not useful in the In

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Speaker 1: the same vein, you can't patent like a time machine. Again,

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Speaker 1: the example they give this this article is lousy with

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Speaker 1: great examples. Yeah, like we we tried actually to get

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Speaker 1: our way back machine patented and they said, guys, that's

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Speaker 1: real cute. They're like, that's basically just sound design. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for wasting your time. We could probably trademark it though,

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Speaker 1: although I'm sure the good people who made Rocky and

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Speaker 1: bowl Winkle would sewer. Yeah. Yeah, so ourselves the patent

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Speaker 1: in the United States, and I apologize that this is

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Speaker 1: not patents all around the world, but we don't have

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Speaker 1: like eighty hours because we search each country. Again, any

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Speaker 1: any modern developed country typically has a patent system. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and good advice. If you have something that you think

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Speaker 1: could be used internationally, you need to get patents in

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Speaker 1: all the countries you fear might rip it off, right,

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Speaker 1: because you're your patent that you've received in the United

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Speaker 1: States protects you in the United States, not Canada, not Japan,

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Speaker 1: not Mexico, not China, not anywhere for twenty years, right

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Speaker 1: these days, that's a long your patent will last. That's right, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Um it used to be seventeen and I can't remember

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Speaker 1: when they changed it, but it wasn't too terribly long ago,

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Speaker 1: within the last couple of decades, I think. Yeah. And actually, um, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll go over the types of the patent real quick too,

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Speaker 1: because one of those, the design patent, is only for

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Speaker 1: fourteen years unless that's changed. Design patent. You'll hear that

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Speaker 1: on shark Tank all the time. Uh. That is something

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Speaker 1: like if you designed a new chair like an ikea

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Speaker 1: chair that would be design patented. You can't go and

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Speaker 1: rip off that chair. Oh, but the the idea of

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Speaker 1: a chair itself isn't patentable. It's just this configuration of

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Speaker 1: the chair concept, right. Or Steve Madden will just in

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Speaker 1: a shoe and Steve Madden can put a design patent

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Speaker 1: on that shoe even though it's a shoe. You can

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Speaker 1: even patent the sole of a shoe, if it's some

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Speaker 1: innovative new tread tread or for like a tire or

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Speaker 1: that channels water away or something like that exactly. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't think those are designed patents though. I think

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Speaker 1: that would be a utility patent, but design patents are

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Speaker 1: enforced for fourteen years. Utility patent um that is, there

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Speaker 1: are five categories there. It can be a process, a machine,

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Speaker 1: a manufacturer, a composition of matter, or an improvement on

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Speaker 1: an existing idea and it might fall into a certain

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Speaker 1: category like more than one, but it'll only be patented

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Speaker 1: for one of those categories, but it's covered and that

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Speaker 1: lasts for twenty years. So basically you're like the coffee

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Speaker 1: maker that also makes an egg and toast at the

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Speaker 1: same time. That would have gotten a utility pattern right,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, does that exist? Yeah? Emily said. The best

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Speaker 1: eggs she ever had was it a cafe in Utah

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Speaker 1: where they um cook them using a like what you

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Speaker 1: used to heat the milk, like that sprays out the steam.

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Speaker 1: They were steam cooked. Weird. Yeah, Like to make an espresso,

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Speaker 1: they will put the raw egg like as if you

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Speaker 1: would make an espresso and cook the eggs with that steam.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of that. I've never heard that either. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the super Weird Plant patent, and that

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Speaker 1: is granted for any a sexually or sexually reproducible plant

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Speaker 1: or flour that is novel and non obvious. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a big one because there was and

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Speaker 1: in Australia it's this is the way it is. But

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Speaker 1: in the US it was up in the air for

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Speaker 1: a little bit that people were worried that like naturally

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Speaker 1: occurring genetic sequences could be patented. So we're basically some

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Speaker 1: company could be like, hey, we now own your jeans

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Speaker 1: and you can't do anything with them, even to save

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Speaker 1: your own life unless you pay us. In in Australia

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Speaker 1: they're one of their federal courts said yeah, like we're

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Speaker 1: totally down with that, which is crazy. In the United States,

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Speaker 1: I think in two thousand and fourteen, the Supreme Courts

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we're not doing that. You you can patent

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Speaker 1: um if you can figure out how to manipulate jeans

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Speaker 1: to make them do something that doesn't naturally occur, knock

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Speaker 1: yourself out totally patent that. Like for example, mont Satto's

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Speaker 1: seeds that um, that prevent themselves from receding or creating

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Speaker 1: more seeds. Yeah, or some new strain of tree that's

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Speaker 1: hardy against what some kind of insect. You can patent that, right,

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Speaker 1: But you can't just go out and patent an oak

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Speaker 1: tree or a human gene. No. You can in Australia,

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Speaker 1: which you should not be allowed to do, but in

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Speaker 1: the US you can't do that. And that was a

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Speaker 1: big load off off. I think a lot of people's minds,

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Speaker 1: including mine. Uh, well, that's good. I'm glad you can

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Speaker 1: sleep tonight. I'm feeling great. Plant patents are good for

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Speaker 1: any years as well. So I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: designed pats are only fourteen, but you know, maybe they

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Speaker 1: just want to encourage more to values design like they should.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem. Uh. As far as we mentioned Jerome Lemelson,

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Speaker 1: and as far as inventors go, he ranks second to

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Speaker 1: Thomas Edison a number of patents in US history, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily a number of inventions, though a lot of people

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Speaker 1: would point out, Yeah, he's a pretty controversial guy. Some

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Speaker 1: people see him as a philanthropic genius. I'm talking about Edison,

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Speaker 1: Oh don't know, I was talking about Limelson. Yeah, he is.

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Speaker 1: He's controversial himself too, Yeah, because he um has accused

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Speaker 1: a lot of people of creating what's called submarine patents,

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Speaker 1: which are it's basically a patent that you sit on

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Speaker 1: even and knowing that there's something just like that being developed,

423
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: and you don't let anyone know, and you just hope

424
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't get their attention, and then later on when

425
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: it's huge, you come out and say, hey, you owe

426
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: me a ton of money because I have this seventeen

427
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: year old patent. Now this, this Lemilson is basically what

428
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: you're talking about is a form of patent trolling. And

429
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: that's he does definitely stand accused of that, or we

430
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: should say his foundation stands accused of that. Um But

431
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: Samuel Lemonson had was um in controvertibly a genius inventor

432
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: who definitely did come up with a lot of really

433
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: great ideas, things like the cam quarter, things like bar

434
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: code scanning, like just like basically the modern world. A

435
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: lot of it came out of Lemilson's head. Jerry Lemilson's head, right,

436
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: But you are right. His foundation has racked up like

437
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: a billion dollars in licensing fees and court awards from

438
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: these kind of these kind of lawsuits and litigations until

439
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: they ran up against one where it was like I

440
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: think a bar code scanning case. A couple of them

441
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,479
Speaker 1: got put together and then they were added onto like

442
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: seven others, and the judge in the case found that

443
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: they basically this even though there isn't necessarily statute of limitations,

444
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: a reasonable statute of limitations, they've run out on the

445
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: time between when barcode scanners came out and the time

446
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: they filed the lawsuits. And they used the term submarine

447
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: patents in this article and said time's basically run out.

448
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: These things belong to the world now, and you know,

449
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: sorryle Wilson Foundation, you're not gonna get this money. Interesting. Uh,

450
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: there was something past called TRIPS Agreement Agreement on Trade

451
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: Related Aspects of Intellectual Property rights, and that was supposed

452
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: to kind of curb submarine patents. But they'll still pop

453
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: up every now and then. I think I think TVOW

454
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: reared their head. I think I saw something about that.

455
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: I know the details though, with a submarine patent saying hey,

456
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: everyone with a Comcast DVR, we actually invented that whole technology.

457
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm not sure how that all panned out,

458
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: though I didn't get to look into it any further.

459
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: But it's interesting. Well let's keep at it, but we'll

460
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: start again right after these messages. Okay, So Chuck, Yeah,

461
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about Edison? So yeah, I said,

462
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: lem Jerome Lemelson was number two with five hundred and

463
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: fifty seven patents held in the US, but Edison eclipses

464
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: that with one thousand, ninety three patents. Uh. And he

465
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: had a set up in Menlo Park, New Jersey that

466
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: was just like a the idea factory basically, which ironically

467
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: is unrelated to the Menlo Park US Patent and Trade

468
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: Office out in California. Oh really yeah, it was just

469
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 1: coincidentally named from what I understand. Interesting. Uh, I never

470
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: do that connection. Um. He when he set up the

471
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: Menlo Park, he hired a bunch of like really bright

472
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: people and said, come up with one small invention every

473
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: ten days, one major invention every six months, and I'll

474
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: put my name on all of them, exactly. And if

475
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: if the your hackles are raised right now, go back

476
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: and listen to our Nicola Tesla episode, which is a

477
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: good one. Edison was a smart guy in many ways.

478
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: He was quite a good promoter, like the lightbulb. He's

479
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: frequently credited with inventing the light bulb. A lot of

480
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: purests will point out, like, no, he didn't really invent

481
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: the light bulb. He took a lot of other innovations

482
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: that were incandescent light related and he figured out how

483
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: to put them together into what we understand now is

484
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: the light bulb. Well, yeah, but that's an invention. Yea.

485
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: He went and got the patent, and now everybody says

486
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: Edison invented the light bulb because uh, and I like

487
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: that too, because you know, that's the kind of the

488
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: whole point of patents is this stuff is available to

489
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: the public to look up. And that was one of

490
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: the original reasons they made it public is so people

491
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: could look up other people's ideas and build upon that, right.

492
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: You know, that's one that's one mark in the favor

493
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: of patent offices in the patent system in general, is

494
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: that it's a way to disseminate scientific information and encourage

495
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: growth and uh, you know, inventiveness, right, And the way

496
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: with the way it does that is by offering an

497
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: incentive for inventors to invent. Because that can be a

498
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: very long, arduous, heartbreaking experience inventing. And if you're gonna

499
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: do that and go to all the work of research

500
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: and development and then right when you come up with it,

501
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: somebody can just come along and mass produce it, then

502
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: you're you're not gonna have any incentive to invent anything.

503
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: You're just gonna go off and like work on a

504
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: road crew or something instead, because it's probably a lot

505
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: more satisfying at the end of the day. Yeah, and

506
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: you can't just go to the government and say, hey,

507
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: they you need to look into this guy. They stole

508
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: my idea that I have patented. The government would be like,

509
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: I don't care. Well, they may care that's at callous,

510
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: but they say that's not our job. You can go

511
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: and take someone court if you want to challenge this.

512
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: But there's no government agency that like patrols the patents infringements. No,

513
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: it's up to the patent holder to to monitor and

514
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: police their own patents, which they are big on. So

515
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: let's talk about the courts a little bit. Um. It's

516
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 1: like twenty years ago, if you had held a patent

517
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: and you took someone to court for infringement, the courts

518
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: typically sided with the infringer. There was a I guess

519
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: kind of either a thought that you are stifling innovation

520
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: if you're just kind of suing people over patent infringement,

521
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, or else they just didn't view patents like

522
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: they do today. Nowadays, it's going to the other extreme,

523
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 1: where the court's rule in favor of the patent holders

524
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: so frequently that a cottage industry of what are known

525
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: as patent trolls sprang up, where you have groups of

526
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: people or companies or individuals who just go around either

527
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: applying for pat that are really abstract and really shouldn't

528
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: have been approved, very vaguely written, right. Uh. And they're

529
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: typically software related too, because I think there's a sentiment

530
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: that the the U. S. Patent Office it doesn't fully

531
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: grasp software and the Internet and I T and that

532
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Um, So you either going and file

533
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: for and get a patent on something really overly broad

534
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: and vague, or you buy a bunch of other people's

535
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: patents and you just start for the whole purpose of

536
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: going to people and saying you're infringing on these patents

537
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: that I now own, give me some money, I'm gonna

538
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: take you to court. It's a business unto itself, it

539
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: is um. The problem is because the courts moved so

540
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: far in favor of patent holders that people would sell

541
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: settle out of court to avoid litigation. And so as

542
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: a result this, this whole cottage industry came up. And

543
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 1: then recently there's been some steps taken to kind of

544
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: reform that a little bit. There was something called the

545
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: Innovation Act. The Innovation Act past the House, was sent

546
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: to the Senate, it was in the Senate Judiciary Committee,

547
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: and then Senator Patrick Lahey killed it, and the tech community,

548
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: who's really big into patent reforms, um accused him of

549
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: being in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies that would

550
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: never happen in this country, who are really big into

551
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: preserving the status quo. And if you really look at

552
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: what's going on with patent reform today in this argument, Chuck,

553
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: you've got the pharmaceutical companies versus the tech industry. Tech

554
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: industry is like things are moving so fast and there's

555
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: so many ideas coming out that we don't like, we

556
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: can't focus on patent infringement. It shouldn't be as big

557
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: of a deal because it's stifling innovation. There's people here

558
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: that are scaring people from you know, licensing computer software

559
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: because this guy says that he has a patent that um,

560
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: you could says you could put software onto a CD

561
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: raw and and and sell it right that you know,

562
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: that's the kind of patentrol thing. On the other side,

563
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical companies say, hey, man, we make tons of

564
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: money licensing our patents, and so if people are afraid

565
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: of infringing on patents because they can get sued, then

566
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: our investments are portfolio patents are going to be protected.

567
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: So there's a huge behemoth lobbies like hammering it out

568
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: right now in in the halls of Congress, and it

569
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: seems like the Supreme Court in the federal government are

570
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: siding on the tech side. Yeah. They You sent that

571
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: great article from Forbes about just the problems with the

572
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: modern patent system, and that was one of the great

573
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: points that I can't remember who wrote the article. The

574
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: guy who found a priceline, Jay Walker. Really yeah, he

575
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: said that, you know, people are so scared companies are

576
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: these days of infringing on patents because if you can

577
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: prove that you knew about this patent, then you could

578
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: be in big trouble. So they're not even looking, which

579
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: is the original idea of making these things published is

580
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, so people would go and look

581
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: up how someone did something. Maybe I can improve upon that. Right,

582
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: So people aren't even looking now because they're afraid that

583
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: they will be it'll be traced back and be like no, no, no,

584
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: we know that you saw this, this patent pulled three

585
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, because the penalties for accidental infringement and

586
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: willful infringement are vastly different, it's a big problem. Well,

587
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: the the jay Walker suggests that you kind of cut

588
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: the courts out and maybe make some sort of make

589
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: it easier to license things. So we just create some

590
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: big national exchange where somebody can go and easily give

591
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: somebody some money or temporarily licensed whatever they need. And

592
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: he cites some um, I think a forest research study

593
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: that suggests of the five point seven million patents that

594
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: the US is granted, two point one active patents okay

595
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: go unused and unlicensed, and of those, approximately half a

596
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: milli in are considered to be like high quality patents.

597
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 1: They're just a lot of them are from university research. Uh,

598
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: and they just sit there, Yeah, and so protected the

599
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 1: same The same study found that like one trillion dollars

600
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: of revenue is not generated each year in the United

601
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: States because of this unused innovation that's just sitting there

602
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: in this this um in this big pot. Yeah, a

603
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: big guarded vault with a pot in it of unused ideas. Yeah,

604
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: which definitely goes against the spirit of the original idea

605
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: for you know, Yeah, which means the system is broken.

606
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: It is broken. The other way that it's broken, too,

607
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: is the enormous backlog that's going on at the Patent

608
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: and Trade Office, oh with just getting it reviewed. And yeah,

609
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: so if you file a patent, and we're going to

610
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: talk about this in a minute, but um, if you

611
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: file a patent, chuck and they rejected, that is not

612
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: the end of the story. You can keep coming back

613
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: and back and back and back. In fact, you usually

614
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: will get rejected on the first try for one reason

615
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: or another. Right, But every time you come back, you

616
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: add to the PTOs already big backlog. Right. And so

617
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: apparently there's another another study that Ours Technica wrote about

618
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: or carried out that that found that there was a

619
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: huge decrease in the backlog under the Obama administration. But

620
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: they suspect that it was because the PTO lowered their

621
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: standards and issued patents for a lot of shoddy patents

622
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: just to get people to go away to clear the backlog,

623
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: because that's the best way to get rid of somebody

624
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: who keeps refiling their patent is to just grain them

625
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: the patent and get them out of your hair. Well,

626
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: they're saying, yeah, that decreased the backlog, but it led

627
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: to a lot of shoddy patents, which in turn led

628
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: to the patentrol industry. Yeah, and a lot more burden

629
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: on the courts to suss all this stuff out later. Exactly.

630
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: The problem is the Patent Office has an incentive to

631
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: keep letting people file and file again because they make

632
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: money every time they generate revenue from that. Yeah, it

633
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: cost I mean, the actual patent itself will cost you

634
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: five or so that you have to keep every year

635
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: and pay a little bit more maintenance fees. Uh, well,

636
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: it depends. Have you seen the feat schedule. Yeah, there's

637
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: like thirty or forty different things you could pay fees for. Well, yeah,

638
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: it all depends on what how detailed your patent is

639
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: and what you're trying to get through. Um, all right, Well,

640
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: let's talk about what you can and can patent. We

641
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about it um. You cannot patent

642
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: something that is exists in the natural world, like a discovery.

643
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: Like they give another great example Einstein's law of relativity.

644
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: He can't copyright that or patented. I mean, it's it's

645
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: a thing, and he might have named it and figured

646
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: it out, but it occurred long before Einstein was around,

647
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: just in the solar system. It kind of it belongs

648
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: to the universe. It belongs to the universe. It's good

649
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: ways in it um. You can patent like an industrial process,

650
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: like we said computer programs, you can, but it gets

651
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: a little dicey um. And you know, if you if

652
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: you have something that you think might be patentable, patentable,

653
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: patentable or not, what you the first step you probably

654
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: should is like higher in either an agent or an attorney,

655
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: an agent or a patent attorney. Yeah, and a lot

656
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: of people do. And this is if you're like serious

657
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: about this stuff, like you really think you're onto something.

658
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: This is something you do not just say you got

659
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: this idea for a thing. Uh, You're not gonna want

660
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: to spend thousands and thousands of dollars unless you really

661
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: think you're onto something, right, So the first step you

662
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: want to talk about the steps of pattenting something, Yeah,

663
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: I guess the first step you can do is to

664
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: do is search yourself. Um. I think Google even has

665
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: a search function to search patents in the United States,

666
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: um easily. But if not, you can definitely go to

667
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: the U S. Patent Office site and search you some

668
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: keywords to kind of generally describe what your invention is.

669
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: Did just see off the bat if there's already something

670
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: out there that's patented, and there probably is. It's very

671
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: rare to have a truly truly unique idea these days.

672
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: But if you have something and you're like, like the

673
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: guy who made the thermonuclear fusion reactor in his garage

674
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: is sixteen year old, if he wanted to patent that,

675
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: there's probably a pretty good likelihood that he could get

676
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: that patent, and then it's gonna be worth a ton

677
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: of money. So we're gonna take that kid and run

678
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: him through the patent process because it's gonna pay off

679
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: for him and the end, despite the enormous amount of

680
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: money that he's gonna have to spend up front to

681
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: just to get the patent protection in the United States, right,

682
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: So he searched the database. Let's say he went to

683
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: the office in person, because that's what kind of kid

684
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: he is, and he looked through the files and he

685
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: found you know what, I think, I'm onto something. I

686
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: don't see anything else in here that's super like it.

687
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: I feel like it's novel and it's innovative, and it's

688
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: not obvious and so um, but it's there's a lot

689
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: of money on the line here, So I'm gonna hire

690
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: a patent lawyer who Um, patent agents aren't attorneys. They

691
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: function similarly, but an attorney obviously has a little more

692
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: power under their belts. Well, they have a technical degree

693
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: typically and a law degree, so they understande. It just

694
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: knows about the patents. They don't have the law degree.

695
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: They have the technical expertise because you have to be

696
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: able to look at the the actual invention and understand

697
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: how it works or if somebody's just trying to pass

698
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: off something dumb like you're you're not a divorce attorney

699
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: and a patent attorney. You might be, but probably sure

700
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: there's probably one out there. So um, a patent lawyer

701
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: will review everything and say, yet, I think you are

702
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: onto something here with your garage nuclear fusion reactor. Kid,

703
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: You're you're a heck of an inventor, and I think

704
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: we can take this right through the roof. So who's

705
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: this guy? He's you know, the kids stays in the pick.

706
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: What's the guy, the producer, legendary producer, the guy. Yeah,

707
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: Robert Evans, that's who. That's who this attorney is. Yeah, Okay,

708
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: we're getting this nail man, like we're really filling it

709
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: out with Although Lionel Huts or I'm sorry, Robert Evans

710
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: may say, you know there is a patent here, don't

711
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: waste your time. Um, it's up to you. But like

712
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: it's really similar in these ways, or maybe hey, this

713
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: thing is super similar, but this actual process within your

714
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: patent that you're applying for is super unique. So maybe

715
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: you should just focus on that, right, and then you

716
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: can license it to the person who's already got the

717
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: patent exactly. Uh. And then that's the point where the

718
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: kids is all right, I want to move forward on

719
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: this smaller part or the original patent, and I want

720
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: to fill out my application like anything else. That's the

721
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: first step, as you have to fill out that application

722
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: and send it in with some money, with some money

723
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: depending on you have to pay that front, right, it's

724
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: for the for the application fee. Yeah yeah yeah um.

725
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: And then after at that moment, once you file your

726
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: application fee, your patent starts, so that twenty year protection

727
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: that doesn't kick in when your patent is granted, like,

728
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: it kicks in from the date you filed your application,

729
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: so you can go out and put patent pending on

730
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: your thermonuclear fusion reactor and start selling it to people.

731
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: That's right. In your application, you you kind of have

732
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: to spell it all out for him. You can't just

733
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: throw your idea in there and say, you guys, do

734
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: the research and see if there's anything else out there.

735
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: You have to list any kind of um potential roadblocks

736
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: and prior art that may be similar for them to review.

737
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: You have to briefly summarize your invention. You have to

738
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: give a description of what they call the preferred embodiment,

739
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: which means how are you going to use this thing basically, yeah,

740
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: or like what shape is it supposed to take? How

741
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: do the components fit in together? Uh? And then your claims,

742
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: which are this is the most important part um and

743
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: this is what you're actually gonna be arguing about in

744
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: court if you have to go that route, because your claim,

745
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: and that is the actual legal description of your invention, right,

746
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: and uh, if your claim is very well written, if

747
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: you spring for a great lawyer Robert Evans, this, this

748
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: claim is going to be very well written, very concise,

749
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: very um descriptive and so, but also sufficiently vague. Sure

750
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, because when you do take somebody to court

751
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: and you say, this guy has totally ripped me off.

752
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: Here's my patent, here's the description of what my thing does. Now,

753
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: look at what this guy is doing. It's the exact

754
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: same thing that my patent lawyer described years ago when

755
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: I filed my patent application. So the claim is extremely important.

756
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: I mean like it's it's basically it's as important as

757
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: getting the patent itself. Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, how much

758
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna pay that attorney all depends, of course on

759
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: how many hours they in. But they put in this

760
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: article between five thousand and twenty thousand dollars. Yeah, I

761
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: saw more than that. I'm sure it can get up

762
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: to as much as you know. I'm sure corporations pay

763
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: these people a lot of money. Yeah, Well, the patent

764
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: office actually has a sliding scale of um fee feet schedules.

765
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: So like, if you are a micro entity I think,

766
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: which is like just probably one guy, you're you're an inventor,

767
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: you're gonna pay the least. If you're a corporation, you're

768
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: gonna pay the most. And that's for the patent fees,

769
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: not the attorney's fees, right, they don't care about those. No,

770
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: But if you're a corporation and you have a lot

771
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: of like a large patent portfolio, and you have an

772
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: R and D company, you have a patent attorney, a

773
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: stable of patent sordies who are working on that anyway,

774
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: they have their own office in your building. But I saw,

775
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: for a in a two thousand five article, I saw

776
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: a a study had found that for a small size business,

777
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: so probably the middle slot of the schedule fee UM,

778
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: it would cost about three thousand dollars to get and

779
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: maintain patents in ten industrialized countries. So I mean, like,

780
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: if you've got a thermonuclear fusion reactor and it works,

781
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: it's gonna totally be worth that you want to patent

782
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: it everywhere you can possibly do that because you're going

783
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: to make you're you're going to change the world with it,

784
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: and probably as many sub patents as you can create.

785
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: If you are kind of shaky on your idea or

786
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: you don't think it's gonna end up paying off that much,

787
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: then who knows. Maybe a high flute and patent attorney

788
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: isn't the way to go, but maybe you go the

789
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: route of like a UM inventors help group, Like there's

790
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: actually one called invent help, and some of those some

791
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: of those things are scams. I looked up invent help.

792
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 1: It appears to be totally legitimate. It's got an a

793
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: minus rating on the Better Business Bureau. UM. You have

794
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: you ever watched like daytime television? They're like inventors, do

795
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: you want to help get your invention to market? They

796
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: do every every step of the way, Like you submit

797
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: your invention. I think they help you get it patented,

798
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: to help you market it. They may set up a

799
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: website to sell it on TV. Yes, they get a

800
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: piece of the revenue down the street, down the line,

801
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: or they may also require fees along the way. UM,

802
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: but some of them are kind of scammy. Apparently invent

803
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: help is not UM. And then another good resource for

804
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: you if you're an inventor of limited means would probably

805
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: be to get to the Lemmelson Foundation that was established

806
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: by that inventor, Jerome Lemelson, who spent most of his

807
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: career suing companies that we're using his patented stuff. Um.

808
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: They I think it's called Lemlson Foundation dot org. They

809
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: have a bunch of programs to help inventors, especially young inventors.

810
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: It's a good place to start. I would think, all right,

811
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna finish up on how to finish up the

812
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 1: patent process and a few more critiques right after this. Alright,

813
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: so this kid has has turned his idea into the

814
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: patent office. Um, like we said earlier, it has a

815
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: pretty good chance of getting rejected on the first pass,

816
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: and they will tell you exactly why, and then it's

817
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: up to you whether or not you want to redo

818
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: it or just bail on it altogether, or you know,

819
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: like I said, redo it and resubmitt it and see

820
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: how your luck runs. Right, And the reasons for rejection

821
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: can be myriad, you know, like literally thirty thousand different reasons. So, uh,

822
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: it can be something from the patent office saying like

823
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: we think that this is way too close to another

824
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: already patent invention. We don't think it's necessarily an improvement.

825
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: It's not useful. These are the very high level reasons

826
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: they can be rejected. If that happens, then you might

827
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: want to go back to the drawing board more frequently.

828
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: I think it's like, we think the wording in your

829
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: claim is a little too vague. We don't quite understand

830
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: the description. Can you make these changes to this paragraph

831
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: you're drawing is missing a label like the the patent

832
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: is supposed to be flawless, well written, the like. If

833
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: you hire a patent attorney, they're going to hire an

834
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: artist to do the drawing for that's submitted to the

835
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: patent office. Um, so it's like really supposed to be

836
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: professional and well done and so like for any minute

837
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: technical detail, they can reject it, but then they'll also

838
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,439
Speaker 1: explain why, and then you can just make the change

839
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: in refile. Um. If it's something that's just kind of

840
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: open new interpretation. If you have a patent attorney, your

841
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: patent attorney can be like, let's negotiate this point and

842
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: hopefully get the whole thing passed through. I wonder if

843
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: you have to go back to the back of the

844
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: line or if you have a new phone number you

845
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: can call I don't know for like, you know, man,

846
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: that's the key, isn't it. You get that that secret

847
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: phone number to the person who actually picks up the

848
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: first time, and you can be like, please help me. Yeah, Um,

849
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: I don't think one thing we did mention if you uh?

850
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: And it gets really dicey if you work for a

851
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: company and you have an invention as an employee of

852
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: that company. Um, there have been countless hinky situations. I

853
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: remember the one They made the movie about the guy

854
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: who um invented the delayed winshield wiper? Is that a

855
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 1: documentary that's out on Netflix? There probably is, But I

856
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: think what's his face? The guy from As Good as

857
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: It Gets? Um. I didn't see the movie though, but

858
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: I think that was a case of someone who works

859
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 1: for a or work for a company, or maybe he

860
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: didn't work for a company. Maybe he just presented it

861
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: to car companies and he thinks they ripped him off.

862
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 1: But if you work for a company, you might get

863
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: the patent, but the company might still own the product

864
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: or the process that you invented, you know, because you

865
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: did it as their employee. Under their purview, but you

866
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: might still get a personal patent for it, but maybe

867
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: you might not benefit like you would as a as

868
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: a private person. No, And basically, if you're an inventor,

869
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: good luck getting a contract with the Corporation of the

870
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: United States where you don't automatically sign over every bit

871
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: of your invention to that company. Or if you are

872
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: if you create anything creative, you are probably have a

873
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: work for higher contract where all of your work that

874
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: you write or draw, or design or compose automatically belongs

875
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: to the company. So the ironic thing is is like

876
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: you are technically the creator of that work or that invention,

877
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: but if you go and republish it like on your

878
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: own personal website, you're infringing on this copy right right,

879
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: Um that your your company owns, and your company can

880
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: sue you to get you to stop or to do whatever. Um.

881
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: And that's a big critique of the patent system too,

882
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: is that there's not a lot that the Patent and

883
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: Trade Office can do about it. But just the way

884
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: the system works right now, corporations have all of the

885
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 1: power as far as patents go. Yeah, that's it's such

886
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: a tough thing. I mean, you hear they're just countless

887
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: stories from history of so and so invented this this

888
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: thing that we all use, but they never made a

889
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: penny off of it because they did it for IBM,

890
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: or like the guys who invented Superman. They were paid

891
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: like a hundred and fifty or three hundred bucks by

892
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: d C, and UM basically told thanks a lot. And

893
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: over the years of DC made tens and tens and

894
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars off of Superman. These guys

895
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: are like, like, this isn't right. And finally, after there

896
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: was enough outcry, they were granted like some some back

897
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: revenue they got. Do you remember our Christmas extravaganza from

898
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: last year? The guy who composed Rudolph the Red Nose

899
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: Reindeer for Montgomery Ward and hit on hard times and

900
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: the president of Montgomery Ward granted him the copyright to

901
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,439
Speaker 1: root off the red nosed Reindeer. That doesn't happen. Yeah,

902
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: And that's that's a copyright, not a patenter and invention.

903
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: It's I see both sides a little bit. You know.

904
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 1: I always think that corporations are the ones taking advantage.

905
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: But if you work for IBM and you have they

906
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: have given you the resources and paid you money to

907
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: do this. Then that's you know, quit your job and

908
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,439
Speaker 1: go invent something on your own. Then you know, yeah,

909
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: um so a kind of see both sides, But generally

910
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: I think corporations probably sticking it to the man. So,

911
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 1: speaking of corporations sticking it to the man or humanity

912
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: in general, UM is of the pharmaceutical industry again, so

913
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: I said that they're they're very happy with um the

914
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: status quo. And one of the great criticisms of the

915
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: patent system now as it is is you can get

916
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 1: a patent. You can buy a patent and just sit

917
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: on it, like you can buy a patent, say from

918
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: a competitor or from somebody who may be a competitor

919
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: down the road and prevent them from making it. Even

920
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: if this thing benefits humanity, even if it literally saves

921
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: people's lives, you can you can sit on a patent.

922
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: And apparently drug companies have been known to do that.

923
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: There was one famous um uh case with a company

924
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: called am Gin and they developed an anemia drug that

925
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: treated anemia and iron deficiency and it worked really well. Um.

926
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: The problem is like the body absorbed it really quick,

927
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 1: so you had to take large doses for your whole life.

928
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: Apparently this researchers chemist found a way to make the

929
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: drug longer lasting, which, in am Gen's mind meant while

930
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: we can't make as much money off of it. So

931
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: this lady was like, can I just see your patents

932
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: and I can figure out a way to to latch

933
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: this onto your drug and save lives. And Anteon was like,

934
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,280
Speaker 1: we're not gonna let you see our our material reels

935
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: are researched. We don't want to make that better man.

936
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: But so that and that's that's not as overt as

937
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: buying a patent sitting on it to keep people from

938
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: doing it. But that does happen like it's a it's

939
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a competitive way to navigate the

940
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: business climate. Well, put to Josh, you've worked your way

941
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: around that one very nicely. Oh I got something here.

942
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: Um if you it might take like a year to

943
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: five years to get this patent um from pending two approved.

944
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: And let's say you put in an idea very similar

945
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: to someone else around the same time. That happens all

946
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: the time. If that happens, they declare and what they

947
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: call an interference, a dance off a dance off exactly,

948
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: and they have to actually have a little trial. Um,

949
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: a little trial like they serve tea and everything's a miniature,

950
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: everything small. Um, they have a trial. They basically figure

951
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: out who got there first. Yeah, there's a very famous

952
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: case of um Alexander Graham Bell and Elijah Gray Um

953
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: basically putting in a patent for the telephone at the

954
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: same time. And I guess for a long time it

955
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: was whoever could prove they invented it first in the

956
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: United States was the one who got the patent. And

957
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: then I just to simplify things, in March of two,

958
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 1: the US changed its patent law. So now the first

959
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: inventor to file is the one who receives the patent. Right,

960
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: so even if it's by a minute, whoever got it

961
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: there first is the one who gets the patent. That's

962
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: why filing that patent right away is uh is your

963
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: best defense? Like go now, stop, press pause and do

964
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: it right now. Seriously if you haven't invention. Um, I

965
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: just got one more thing on the the old the

966
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: infamous poor man's patent or poor man's copyright. Sure everyone's heard,

967
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: Like all you gotta do is write it out and

968
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: mail it to yourself. I think I suggested that on

969
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: this this this show before, didn't you remember? I don't

970
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: remember that. But that is just an old wives tale

971
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: that's not going to hold up in court. It's basically worthless.

972
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: But I don't understand why if like right when you

973
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: create the work, it automatically is copyrighted, why would that,

974
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,919
Speaker 1: like dating it not make it not just substantiated even

975
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 1: more Well not, I'm not talking about writing a book.

976
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Hey, I'm I did this invention, and

977
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: here's the schematic, and I'm gonna man. Okay, So it

978
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: could work for something copyrighted, but not a patent. Well no,

979
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean if it's if it's just an original work

980
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: of art you've created, like a book, then like it said,

981
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: it's already copyrighted, so that doesn't even apply. Okay. So

982
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: but if you invented something in designed and dismail this

983
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: to yourself, it's worthless. Basically you can't prove like envelopes

984
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: can be steamed open and manipulated, like, that's not gonna

985
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: hold up in court. You can do it if you want,

986
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: sure to take it to court. And so I have

987
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: an extra stamp that I don't know what to do

988
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: with that's right. Uh, let's see you got anything else

989
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about patents. Uh, it's

990
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: actually surprisingly interesting stuff. Um you can type that word

991
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: in the search part how stuff works dot com. And

992
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: since I said that, it's time for a listener mail,

993
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this. Thanks for the panic attack episode.

994
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: Oh I'm glad, they said episode. We've got a lot

995
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: of great feedback. I think this touched a lot of

996
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: people because they're way more common than you think. Um, Hey, guys,

997
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: love the episode on panic attacks. I had them in college,

998
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: brought on by normal college stress plus the loss of

999
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: a beloved uncle. I would often wake up in the

1000
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: night standing in the hall of my dorm, feeling like

1001
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: I could not breathe. Sometimes I would be awake enough

1002
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: to think I'm dying. I just need to get the

1003
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: hallway so someone will find me or my body. Sometimes

1004
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: I would just wake up screaming. What helped and the

1005
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: reason I'm writing was some wonderful therapy offered through my

1006
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: university's health services, along with some antidepressants. In the support

1007
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: of my family and friends, I learned coping mechanisms to

1008
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: get me through my anxiety, how to express my stress

1009
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: so I wasn't bottling at all up inside, and the

1010
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: importance of taking time to rest my mind and body.

1011
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: With all the help, I was able to leave therapy

1012
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: after a few semesters, was able to recognize that I

1013
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: needed it again later and graduate school after the birth

1014
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: and my second year my much love but very unplanned child.

1015
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: I urge all college students, graduate and undergrad to really

1016
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: take advantage of their mental health services that are offered

1017
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: to them. For me, as a student at my university,

1018
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: each session was only ten bucks. And remember that in college,

1019
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: all that stuff was so cheap, like the doctor. You

1020
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: can go see a shrink for like five dollars. I

1021
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: remember I got acupuncture of like three bucks a session.

1022
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: Really they had no I did that in l A

1023
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: through a university though my roommate there's just some dude exactly.

1024
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: He was good with a needle. Um uh. And it

1025
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 1: could also be charged to my births are account, which

1026
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. Burstir. Yeah, I

1027
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: didn't have one of those. Yeah, I remember that from college,

1028
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: but I don't remember what it was. I think the

1029
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: word looks familiar. The health building was on campus so

1030
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: sessions fit right into my schedule, and I can't stress

1031
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: enough how beneficial it was for me. Without therapy, I

1032
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: would no doubt have not made it through college and

1033
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: graduate school. There's no shame in therapy or medication to

1034
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: help you through tough times. Turns out pretty much everyone

1035
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: goes through it to some extent, and no one is

1036
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: weak for getting help. Admitting you need help is what

1037
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: makes you a stronger person in my opinion. And Rosalie Maltby,

1038
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: researcher at the University of Oklahoma Department of Biology, I

1039
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. Well, thanks a lot, is it? Rosa Lee, Rosalie, Rosalie,

1040
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Rosalie. We appreciate you writing in spreading

1041
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: that message because it's a good one. Very pretty name

1042
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: as well. Um, if you have a patent, we want

1043
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Tell us what your patent is

1044
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: so we'll steal it. No, No, I can't, it's patented.

1045
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: Man about if you've got a great idea that you

1046
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: haven't yet patented, send that to us. Whatever you want

1047
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: to do. You can tweet to us at s y

1048
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot

1049
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: com slash stuff. You should know. You can send us

1050
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com,

1051
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: and as always, joined us at at home on the web.

1052
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this

1053
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff Works

1054
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: dot com.