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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going. Hi everyone, you are in luck. We

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Speaker 1: have a second episode this week. I recorded this conversation

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Speaker 1: with Jenna Arnold a few months ago, but her new book,

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Speaker 1: Raising Our Hands is out now and truly feels more

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Speaker 1: timely than ever. Raising Our Hands is described as a

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Speaker 1: quote reckoning call for white women. It asks us to

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Speaker 1: step up and join the new front lines and the

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Speaker 1: fight against complacency in our homes, in our behaviors, and

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Speaker 1: in our minds. Powerful stuff, right. Jenna is an educator,

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, and a long time activist and a mother.

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Speaker 1: Oprah named her one of her one Awakened leaders who

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Speaker 1: are using your voice and talent to elevate humanity, and

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Speaker 1: over the years, my friendship with Jenna has certainly elevated

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Speaker 1: so many important thoughts, ideas, and practices in my own life.

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Speaker 1: I really loved this conversation and the ladies, I am

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Speaker 1: sure you will too. I'm excited about the subject matter

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Speaker 1: of your book and the conversation that we're going to

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Speaker 1: have today. I feel like before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: we should we should take people back a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny because I started thinking about this and

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Speaker 1: realized that I couldn't put my finger on it. I

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Speaker 1: was like, wait, where did we even meet? Like? Where

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Speaker 1: did we do that? Do you remember? I don't even remember.

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Speaker 1: I just feel like you've always been here. I think, Um,

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Speaker 1: it must have been Summit, Yeah, one of the conferences.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. Actually, I like the real first

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Speaker 1: time that I feel like I entered your world is

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Speaker 1: oh um, okay. I think the first time we kind

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Speaker 1: of sort of hung out was in Israel on the

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Speaker 1: shoes on the Superman trip and I wasn't on it,

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Speaker 1: but I came to hang out with you guys. But

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Speaker 1: then I also remember coming to your house for a

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Speaker 1: Johnny Swim concert. Yeah, and home, which is like still

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Speaker 1: in my top ten. They're the best. They're the best.

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Speaker 1: They're the best, and I'm so happy about their success,

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Speaker 1: I mean too so happy about their success. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I can think of like the first

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Speaker 1: first first time, But I think I like throw the

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Speaker 1: bone to Summit. They probably deserve it. Yeah, I definitely,

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Speaker 1: I know it was a it was a conference gathering

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Speaker 1: of some sort, and then we were in touch and

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Speaker 1: we were in touch on activist stuff and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was it was really when we were halfway around

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Speaker 1: the world that we got to really hang right. And

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Speaker 1: I think what I find happening that I've found throughout

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Speaker 1: my professional career is like I just gravitate towards sisters

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Speaker 1: of the same tribe of women who are like I

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Speaker 1: could sort of call and their emotions or their frustration

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Speaker 1: or their confusion or whatever has either at the same

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Speaker 1: octave as mine or has been there before, and they

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Speaker 1: can help with guidance and or like, if I asked

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Speaker 1: you how you were, you could probably answer the same

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Speaker 1: question for me, right, Like, or if I could if

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Speaker 1: I asked you about the world was and whatever your

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Speaker 1: answer was, like I could probably copy and paste that

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Speaker 1: if someone asked the same. Yeah, we were so lucky.

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Speaker 1: I feel like over the last decade, especially, a really

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Speaker 1: incredible group of smart women have kind of magnetized, you know,

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Speaker 1: We've we've circled up in a way that has been

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Speaker 1: really motivating and also really healing, because when I'm when

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm on the precipice of just losing

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Speaker 1: my mind at the state of the world. I always

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Speaker 1: know that I can call you and that you'll be

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Speaker 1: like girls same. But here's why we're going to be okay.

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Speaker 1: And I value that I actually and we can we

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Speaker 1: can save this for later. But like, I actually think

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Speaker 1: that the world hasn't done that hard left turn that

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Speaker 1: I think we're about to, Like I don't think we've

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Speaker 1: actually seen anything yet, and it's gonna it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: so bored. I always think about my relationships with UM

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Speaker 1: women from this specific family which I consider you a member,

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Speaker 1: And whenever I have my moments of being insecure or

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Speaker 1: being UM confused or curious or often just raging, I know,

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Speaker 1: knowing that that you are too, and that so many

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Speaker 1: of other of our other sisters are too, just blows

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Speaker 1: the wind in my sales. Today I got an email

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Speaker 1: from a friend who she's very successful dubrenour Um. You

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Speaker 1: all know her company and IF and some of her

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Speaker 1: investors are trying to reorganize her cat table and she's infuriated.

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Speaker 1: And I wrote her a text message back and I

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Speaker 1: was like, hold the line, do not move. All of

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Speaker 1: your sisters are standing behind you. Blowing wind in yourself,

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Speaker 1: do not move, Do not move. And I often have

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Speaker 1: to think of like, not only my ancestors and the

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Speaker 1: good things that they did and the things that I

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Speaker 1: have to make up for in this lifetime, but also

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Speaker 1: the women who are with me in this life, standing

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Speaker 1: behind me, blowing wind in myself. Yeah, and and we

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Speaker 1: can't do this without each other. And I think now

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Speaker 1: more than ever, at least, my hope is that we're

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Speaker 1: realizing that we can't do this without each other, without

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Speaker 1: our tribes, without our teams, but that we're all really

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Speaker 1: on a big team together. And I'm curious, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think about us doing a lot of activists work together,

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Speaker 1: about the places that we show up and the people

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Speaker 1: that we show up for, whether it's you know, marching

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Speaker 1: together at the first Women's March. It's crazy to me

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Speaker 1: that it's been over three years. You know, I could

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Speaker 1: really go down the list, but I'm I'm curious, can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the organization of that,

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Speaker 1: the mobilization of women in response to what's happening to

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Speaker 1: the world, And then I'm really going to want to

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Speaker 1: back up farther. But I do feel like that's kind

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Speaker 1: of an amazing place to start. Yeah, So one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I dive into in great depth in

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Speaker 1: the book is this idea that now is a different

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Speaker 1: time in human history, in that we can now look

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Speaker 1: back at history, I ask more difficult questions about motivations,

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Speaker 1: agendas which didn't didn't actually happen, make really smart conclusions

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Speaker 1: both from an academic and a moral perspective, and and

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Speaker 1: then also potentially apply some of those learnings to the future.

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Speaker 1: In addition to that, we're more connected now than we

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Speaker 1: ever been. Both by this this concept of a pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Forget the fact that there's a name for it and

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Speaker 1: everybody knows it. Um that there is this sudden like wow,

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Speaker 1: there are no boundaries and everybody is vulnerable. Clearly, there's

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Speaker 1: more marginalized populations, and there's this internal what I like

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Speaker 1: to say about what happened on January seventeen at the

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Speaker 1: Women's March, the largest protest in human history, that every

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Speaker 1: time I ask somebody why they showed up, they sort

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Speaker 1: of stumble through an answer, and it's never articulate, and

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Speaker 1: it's always like, well, because I had to and because

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Speaker 1: something was wrong, and and it's really comes down to this,

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Speaker 1: like mammalistic drumbeat that's happening in our chest bones of like,

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Speaker 1: uh not, no, not, Now I have to do something.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what it is, but I have to

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Speaker 1: be in community with other people who might reflect my

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Speaker 1: confusion and my my desire for a better world. And

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Speaker 1: then since then, for the past three years, all I've

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Speaker 1: seen in my research for this book, I've done listening

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Speaker 1: circles across the country, asking primarily white women, very existential

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Speaker 1: questions like what are you willing to fight for? What

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Speaker 1: stereotype of value is true? And at the end of

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Speaker 1: every listening circle, they're all like, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about this more. I want to do more. How can

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Speaker 1: I get in the game? What do I do to

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Speaker 1: be a part of something bigger than myself? And so

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Speaker 1: from that moment in Washington, d C. When I stood

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Speaker 1: on stage and looked at a sea of millions of

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Speaker 1: pink hats, and then later that day came to a

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Speaker 1: television screen of a grid of every city around the

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Speaker 1: world and was blown away by it, to what happened

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Speaker 1: this past Saturday when I was doing a virtual workshop

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Speaker 1: and I capped the Zoom rs v P or the

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Speaker 1: Zoom room for only a hundred people and like seven

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Speaker 1: women tried to log in to participate in a conversation

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Speaker 1: about white women holding white women accountable and what that means.

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Speaker 1: And so again, everybody's pulse is thumping differently today, and

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Speaker 1: we have access to different information, and we're more connected

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Speaker 1: than we've ever been. So there's this huge opportunity, and

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Speaker 1: I genuinely believe it's a very short window, like as

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Speaker 1: in a couple of years, like a single digit amount

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Speaker 1: of years for us to actually hold the front line

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Speaker 1: and keep pushing forward. M hm. To hold the front

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Speaker 1: line and continue to push feels like a really, really

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Speaker 1: important call to action that resonates very deeply with me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that one of

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Speaker 1: the ideas that I've been wrestling with, and as I

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Speaker 1: try to answer a lot of these women in these

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Speaker 1: conversations when they say things like, well, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to do, I think that we all

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Speaker 1: need to be looking for front lines in places where

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Speaker 1: we haven't. Traditionally, socivic engagement for decades and generations have

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Speaker 1: been voting, calling your senator. In the recent years, in

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Speaker 1: the sixties, marching, donating two different organizations but to me,

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Speaker 1: that's like so super obvious, Like next, please, like what's

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Speaker 1: the real work and what I'm calling my reader and um,

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Speaker 1: women who look like me and had similar life experiences

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Speaker 1: to me in this country, is to see we can

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Speaker 1: find new front lines to do civic work, which isn't like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let me go find another preschool to do another fundraiser

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Speaker 1: for Yeah, that's great and important to do it, but

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Speaker 1: it's really to hold ourselves accountable and examine our biases,

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Speaker 1: examine how we're making excuses for our institutions or the

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Speaker 1: men and the men in our life. Um how checking

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Speaker 1: out very much thinking about our behaviors and our thoughts, um,

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Speaker 1: as it relates to the most marginalized, as it relates

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Speaker 1: to our insecurities, as it relates to our role in

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Speaker 1: the world. To um, that's where the front lines are.

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Speaker 1: That's all right. I always say, it's probably at your

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Speaker 1: front lines in the room with you. Mm hmm. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So we're we're talking today and and you're in a

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Speaker 1: place of perspective on the systems that we all partake in,

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Speaker 1: whether consciously or unconsciously. Where did this kind of passion

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Speaker 1: for change and the desire to fight for others come from.

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Speaker 1: Was was this in you always? You know? Was it

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Speaker 1: was ten year old Jenna out there banging pots and pans,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to call attention to social issues. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there was this book I had had trouble reading.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't until I was eleven. And for context for

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Speaker 1: those listeners who are in the education space, the average

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Speaker 1: reader started around five or six um, so I couldn't

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Speaker 1: read for a while. So it was really passionate about

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Speaker 1: like finding other ways to engage and and participate in

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Speaker 1: the subject in school. And there was this book, I

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Speaker 1: think it's titled three hundred sixty five Ways to Make

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Speaker 1: the to save the World or to make the World

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Speaker 1: Better is some sort of environmental book, and it was

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Speaker 1: like put a brick in your toilet to displace a

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Speaker 1: certain percentage of water, because it's like every you know, toilets,

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Speaker 1: if you flesh them, it's like standing gallons of water

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Speaker 1: or sory that you're cutting the six pact, you know,

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Speaker 1: that plastic thing that holds hands together. And so I

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Speaker 1: would like I was doing that, I were destroyed a

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Speaker 1: couple of toilets because the brick idea doesn't actually make

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Speaker 1: sense because brick is clay and it dissolves and destroys toilets,

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Speaker 1: of which my father won't let me forget. But there

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Speaker 1: was just like all these things of like, you can

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Speaker 1: do this to save the rainforest, Like that was the

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Speaker 1: big thing when I was a kid, was saving the

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Speaker 1: rain person when can we just go back to saving

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Speaker 1: the rainforest? And so yeah, it was. And I do

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Speaker 1: think a lot about why I was so obsessive about

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Speaker 1: so many of those things, because I don't I didn't

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Speaker 1: see it reflected in a lot of my immediate world.

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Speaker 1: But there was definitely a calling to um. There was

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Speaker 1: definitely a calling that pulled me to a place of

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Speaker 1: you got some work to do here. I felt that too.

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Speaker 1: That that National Geographic VHS box set of six videos.

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Speaker 1: I watched the one on the rainforest, I think until

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Speaker 1: the tape burned through and I and I just I

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Speaker 1: was inconsolable about the fact that it was being cut down,

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Speaker 1: and my parents, you know, would just look at me

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Speaker 1: with a sort of horror of like what do we

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Speaker 1: do with this child who won't stop crying about the street.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel that very deeply. Were just to

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Speaker 1: be clear, like I do order a lot online, and

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Speaker 1: I do have lock boxes that show up at my

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Speaker 1: front door, and so in holding myself accountable, I'm not

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Speaker 1: necessarily protecting Ray for us the way that I would

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Speaker 1: like to. I mean, I think again, we haven't really

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Speaker 1: designed a world that makes it easy for us, and

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Speaker 1: as humans, we need to create systems that make it

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Speaker 1: simpler to live better and in better communion with the planet,

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Speaker 1: and we we just do because we can't. We can't be,

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Speaker 1: you know, filling our toilets with bricks. Right aside from

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Speaker 1: being very annoyed with you for doing that, what what

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Speaker 1: were your parents like? Where did you grow up? What

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Speaker 1: was what was kind of the world around you? I was.

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Speaker 1: I had a very average suburban childhood. I grew up

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Speaker 1: outside of Philadelphia to an architect and a nurse and UM.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of after school sports, and I

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Speaker 1: came from a huge family and we spend our summers

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Speaker 1: together at the beach house. And that was always really

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Speaker 1: important because I knew that no matter what happened to me,

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Speaker 1: I had always had a couch that I could sleep

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Speaker 1: on or there was always out safe. So having um

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Speaker 1: the safety net of extended families, and I guess their

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Speaker 1: couches always let me jump off slightly more steep cliffs,

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Speaker 1: and my parents, I think probably looked at you the

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Speaker 1: same way with just like, oh, that's cute, cares about

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Speaker 1: the rainforest. I guess we'll get her some you know,

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Speaker 1: tropical birds for her birthday or like it wasn't they didn't.

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Speaker 1: And then when I was in high school, I decided

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Speaker 1: that I needed to see more of the world, and

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Speaker 1: my mom said, it was always like you were a

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Speaker 1: cage tiger, like there was just so much for you

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Speaker 1: to go and see and consume and eat and proud.

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Speaker 1: When I was fifteen, I moved to Spain by my self,

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Speaker 1: which I cannot believe my parents let me do. And

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Speaker 1: then sixteen, I know, what are you talking about? Like

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Speaker 1: in the summer for summer school, what are you saying

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Speaker 1: to me? Like, uh, eleventh, tenth grade and then eleventh

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Speaker 1: grade France. I mean it was crazy, and sometimes I

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Speaker 1: said my dad like, what were you thinking? He's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't actually know. I just knew that

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Speaker 1: you were capable, I guess. And and you went there

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Speaker 1: for school. Yeah, I went there for school because I

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Speaker 1: kind of schools. I don't I honestly don't understand what

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Speaker 1: you're saying to me. It's like you're speaking another language.

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Speaker 1: I went it was like it was all It was

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Speaker 1: like in a broad program. And I lived abroad when

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Speaker 1: I was fifteen, and a lot of the fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old I know today I look at them and I'm like, hm,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I would let you go live in Spain

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Speaker 1: by yourself. So yeah, So I went and lived in

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Speaker 1: a small town outside of Barcelona where they speak Catalan.

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Speaker 1: I went to are in Spanish, and I quickly realized

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Speaker 1: after I landed at the airport that they don't speak Spanish.

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Speaker 1: Where they speak Spanish is a second language. In uh

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Speaker 1: in Barcelona they speak Catalan. So I was really in

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Speaker 1: over my head. We're what inspired you to do this? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why did you pick Spain and then France? Did you

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Speaker 1: have role models you were looking at? Where you were

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Speaker 1: you in love with the stories of writers who had

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Speaker 1: moved to Europe to be creative? What what prompted this? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the best way I can answer it is

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Speaker 1: very much couched in a lot of the things that

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Speaker 1: I talked about in the book, of what I had

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Speaker 1: access to and what I was exposed to and Europe.

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Speaker 1: Spain will call a great Britain, but people would just

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Speaker 1: typically say London, maybe, uh, France, maybe a little bit Germany,

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Speaker 1: Like that's where the rest of the world was, and

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Speaker 1: there wasn't something that was like and there's this other

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Speaker 1: continent south of it, in the southern Hemisphere with fifty

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Speaker 1: seven other countries, or let's talk about the huge, you know,

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Speaker 1: Russian continent or Southeast Asia, oh and Central and South America.

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Speaker 1: So I think it was just like the only place

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Speaker 1: to go to get out of my country, which I

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Speaker 1: in retrospect I don't have an appreciation for. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have an appreciation appreciation for it then but do now.

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Speaker 1: Is that it was part of this process of me

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Speaker 1: seeing my homeland from a foreign shore and what that

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Speaker 1: meant and hearing what people had to say about Americans

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Speaker 1: when I was young. Has very much been something that

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Speaker 1: I've watched throughout my travels, throughout my life of being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what do you think of my country? What do you

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Speaker 1: think of my people? What do you think of our

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Speaker 1: elected officials? Or the reality television show that ends up

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Speaker 1: on your screens, And that's so important spending decades listening

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Speaker 1: to people tell me what they think about me. The

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Speaker 1: narrative that they've already preassigned to me has been very telling. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it reminds us that everyone's got a narrative, everyone's

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Speaker 1: got an assumption, everyone's got a stereotype, and we certainly

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Speaker 1: don't like it when those things are put on us,

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Speaker 1: So why do we put them on other people? You

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Speaker 1: you had this experience on a class trip to Mexico City.

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Speaker 1: When when did that? When did that occur? And can

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Speaker 1: you tell the listeners a little bit about that? Sure?

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Speaker 1: And that's good research, um, because I'm thinking about all

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Speaker 1: your travels in the way that they affected you. But this,

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Speaker 1: this story feels particularly important to share this. Um. So

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Speaker 1: I was when I was in eighth grade. I went

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Speaker 1: to Mexico on a class trip and I was sitting

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Speaker 1: in the back of let's say, a fifteen person van,

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Speaker 1: and we were driving down what wasn't a major highway,

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Speaker 1: but it was like an eight lane highway and it

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Speaker 1: was very busy impact and we ended up finding ourselves

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Speaker 1: in bumper the bumper traffic, and it was unclear what

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Speaker 1: was causing this traffic jam. And as we inch closer,

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Speaker 1: the driver was getting more agitated. And the people to

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Speaker 1: our left and right, we're getting annoyed. And the people

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Speaker 1: in the van were like, come on, come on, we're

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Speaker 1: missing whatever was they were missing. And as we got

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Speaker 1: closer to what the bottle neck was, I saw a

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Speaker 1: gentleman on the side of the road and the outside

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Speaker 1: lane because there was no shoulders on this particular highway,

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Speaker 1: in his wheelchair, rolling his his wheels incredibly hard with

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Speaker 1: a tremendous urgency. And I realized that the bottleneck was

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Speaker 1: being caused by this gentleman who was taking up a

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Speaker 1: third of the outside lane. And I had this thought

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Speaker 1: of like, well, why doesn't as we're resuming by, well,

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Speaker 1: why doesn't he just get up on the side sidewalk.

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Speaker 1: And that next immediate sidewalk that I had spotted, which was,

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Speaker 1: you know, ten fifteen feet ahead of him, didn't have

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Speaker 1: an on ramp on the corner, and so I realized

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Speaker 1: that this gentleman could end as of how he was mobile,

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Speaker 1: couldn't get up onto the sidewalk because there was no

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Speaker 1: on romp. And as we're dooming by, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well that's really easy to fix. How come no one

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Speaker 1: has done that? And I realized in looking back like

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Speaker 1: that was my first human rights violation that I was

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Speaker 1: really processing because this man was in jeopardy and he

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Speaker 1: there was also a tremendus amount of disruption um caused

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Speaker 1: by the things be caused by an inadequate system that

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Speaker 1: wasn't allowing him to get up on the sidewalk, And

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Speaker 1: so it sent me off on this like, wow, there's

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Speaker 1: probably a lot of problems that have easy solutions, like

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Speaker 1: on on a sidewalk. And then if you think about

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Speaker 1: the amount of people that benefit from ramps on the

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Speaker 1: side of sidewalks, Forget you know, forget the individuals who

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Speaker 1: need them to to get around, but you know people

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Speaker 1: with strollers or the elderly who have carts that they

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Speaker 1: need to weel. So it was sort of this idea

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Speaker 1: of like, oh, wow, there's probably a long list of

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Speaker 1: things that need to be done in the world. Tackle them.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting too, isn't it that sometimes as a child,

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Speaker 1: you just see it so clearly where you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: problem solutions right there. Yeah, you're like I don't understand,

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Speaker 1: like that's so simple. But as you get older and

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Speaker 1: you dive into those spaces, you realize everything requires policy,

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Speaker 1: every everything requires someone to make a rule, which then

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Speaker 1: allows for the decision making process to move down, you know,

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Speaker 1: downstream in the social system, to allow for protections for

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Speaker 1: a person like that man who is disabled to have

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Speaker 1: an on ramp for his wheelchair. It's so simple unless

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Speaker 1: it isn't there, and then it's devastating, which is why

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Speaker 1: you see this rise of youth activists and women activists

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Speaker 1: all around the world right not just what we were

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Speaker 1: doing at the Women's March years ago, but you see

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Speaker 1: it in Sudann, you see it in ri odd being

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Speaker 1: in places that didn't have places it didn't have um

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Speaker 1: women to rage. And you also now seeing what's happening

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Speaker 1: with the youth when they're just like, let me tell

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Speaker 1: you the problem. It's actually from a perspective, it's quite basic.

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Speaker 1: And I do think this moment in history is um yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuances to it, but but asking

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Speaker 1: the hard question of like problem a potential solution B

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Speaker 1: and maybe the solution is like a D E f G.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's further down down the road, but but it exists.

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Speaker 1: And what's happened I found in this country, particularly in

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Speaker 1: working in the organ donation industry for a while is

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Speaker 1: that what feels like it might have an easy solution

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Speaker 1: is actually way more complex than than one initially sets

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Speaker 1: out for it to be. But it's because our systems

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Speaker 1: have become overcomplicated to begin la, yes, and overcomplicated in

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Speaker 1: ways that are inefficient, redundant, and in ways that they

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00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: don't need to be. That's right, and so sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: ways to gloss over it. Like what we were organized,

403
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: where there was fifty there was fifty two different registries

404
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: when we started organized Register to become an organ do owner.

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Speaker 1: They were state based and they weren't communicating with each other,

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Speaker 1: and if you look at that, you're like, well that

407
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Speaker 1: really doesn't make sense. So that there was contemplation to

408
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: merge them all or a new option of building a

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00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: new one, which is a glorified Google form obviously with

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Speaker 1: lots of hippo requirements. And we had an amazing tech

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Speaker 1: team that built, you know, a stunning product which was

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Speaker 1: not just a Google form, but but this idea that like,

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Speaker 1: there are things that we can just you know it,

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Speaker 1: three fifty two doesn't two regisgues don't work right now,

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Speaker 1: I'll just make a new one. And that's in like

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Speaker 1: every single silo of the country. Yes, so you see

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Speaker 1: your first human rights violation and systemic failure in junior high.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about the ones you were working on quite recently.

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Speaker 1: I know that you moved to Europe as a teenager

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Speaker 1: in between, which is insane, But what what happens after that?

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Speaker 1: Because obviously, traveling has always been an incredibly important part

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Speaker 1: of your education, both in what you've been able to

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Speaker 1: see and in what you've been able to understand people

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Speaker 1: see in US. So I'm curious how all of that

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Speaker 1: puzzle pieces itself together to take you on your path

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Speaker 1: to go to college, to be a teacher, to be

427
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Speaker 1: the youngest American who ever worked at the United Nations? Like,

428
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Speaker 1: how how does all of this happen? My experience seeing

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Speaker 1: other peoples in places and other ways of life in

430
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: my early teens, coming out of a really safe, secure,

431
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: relatively standard childhood, shook me out of this idea of

432
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: there's one way to do things, and that layered with oh,

433
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: I see problems that possibly have easy solutions, and while

434
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: my assumption about the way that we should be living

435
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: our lives the way that I've seen my extended family

436
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: build their lives, the way that the American blueprint tells

437
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: us to build our lives might not actually be in

438
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: the best interest of all. And that's a pretty ground statement.

439
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: But we have this idea and concept of this American

440
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: exceptionalism and entitlement as if we have all of the

441
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: answers and we therefore need to find ways to solve

442
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: them both and whatever. It is that our greatest most

443
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: powerful entity, often being governments, are very powerful men with

444
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: large checks, check books and a tremendous power. They must

445
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: have all of the answers. And what I have found,

446
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: and what I started finding early in my life, is

447
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: that in fact they don't. And in fact, you know,

448
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot of discussion around like imposter syndrome and

449
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: are you really qualified to be in the position that

450
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: you're in and um, and a part of me is like, no,

451
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: nobody's ever qualified unless you have a decade in you know,

452
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: the medical institution, to operate on brains, like even flying planes.

453
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: There's so many different things that like, I actually think

454
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 1: most people are qualified to participate in most solutions, and

455
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: and there's just this belief that there's this scaffolded system

456
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: that if you haven't continued to climb these certain wrongs

457
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: on the ladder, that you're not um, that you're not capable,

458
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: or you have no place participating. And I think that's

459
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: what keeps so many women on the sidelines, particularly the

460
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: most power. A full demographic of women on the sideline

461
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: did that answer. It does, as far as understanding that

462
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: you want to jump in, as far as saying I

463
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: have the passion and I'm going to show up and

464
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this work. But I'm I'm just curious what.

465
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: I'm curious about your actual timeline. I'm curious about you

466
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: come home from Europe and then what how how does

467
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: the rest of it unfold? So I come home from Europe? Well,

468
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: I first come home and came home from Mexico and

469
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, there's problems. I need solutions. And

470
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: I remember that first Friday evening I went to Hulands

471
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: with my best friends, um as we typically did on

472
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: Friday evenings, and one of them was like, did you

473
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: hear Brook hooked up with Travis? And I looked at

474
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: her and I was like, wow, I don't. I don't

475
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: care like I did three weeks ago. I didn't care

476
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: about these small, tiny things that are happening that are

477
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: just sort of inconsequential to the comings and goings of

478
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: the world. And so it made me look my horizon

479
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: just got broader, and the questions I had about the

480
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: world got that list just got longer. Right, So, studying

481
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: like the graphics a little bit more closely, I was

482
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: really excited about trying to figure out that next place

483
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: I can go. And what ended up happening, which I

484
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: hear everyone say, is oh, I caught the travel bug

485
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: right the second you you haven't experienced somewhere else that

486
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: helps you cut closer to yourself, like gives you a

487
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: different perspective about your very specific place in society. You're like, oh,

488
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm hooked. I need more of that drug, and so um,

489
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: I think I moved to Europe. I went to the

490
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: University of Miami, where I studied elementary education and astrophysics

491
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: because at the time I really wanted to be an

492
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: astronaut and my plan was to go to Rice to

493
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: go into the astronaut program, and I by my junior year,

494
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: I actually in in being quarantined. I was going through

495
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: a ton of boxes and I found my report cards

496
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: for my grades, and I found the last physics class

497
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: I took and I was like, oh, that's why, that's

498
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: why I stopped pursuing my dreams to go to outer space,

499
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: because I think I got like a B minus or

500
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: something like that. And my friend was laughing at me, like, oh,

501
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: that was the end of that. And then uh, in undergrad,

502
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: I traveled the world on a program known as Semester

503
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: at Sea, which was a really phenomenal taste of fifteen

504
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: countries something like that. And while we were abroad, UH

505
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: nine eleven happened. So we were in a couple of

506
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: days out from Japan during nine and eleven, and I

507
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: think my first stop in Japan was here Ashima, so

508
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: I came from. So it was like this very hard.

509
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: I still even struggle with it today, processing what happened

510
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: at home, and then also being at the ground zero

511
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: row of um the first nuclear bomb that was that

512
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: was dropped in human history and sadly I don't believe

513
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: the last, and just sort of reconciling it and looking

514
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: at there's this very specific sort of spot in a

515
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: park where they say this is where the actual bomb landed,

516
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: and I remember looking at the sidewalk there and seeing, um,

517
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: these like weeds just grow through the cracks, and and

518
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: oh wow, life was able to come back even here,

519
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: and life therefore is going to be able to come

520
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: back even there, and no matter why, life will always

521
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: find a way. And that's where I am at this

522
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 1: moment in history, where I can get very exhausted and

523
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: very demoralized by how we're treating each other, and and

524
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: I still always think back like life will always find

525
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: a way. And and then that took me to grad

526
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: school or you're like forcing me to clear my cobwebs

527
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: of my life, and I'm scared. Then I went to

528
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: grad school, a teacher's college, and studied peace education UM,

529
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: and peace education sort of unbeknownst to me is really

530
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: the study of war. So I spent a long time

531
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: diving deep into all the conflicts around the world and

532
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: what that looks like and what was the foundation for

533
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: countries falling into civil war. And I remember and I

534
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: references and raising our hands leaving grad school after talking

535
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: about what the l r A did does to children

536
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: involved an armed conflict in parts of Uganda, and looking

537
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: at these terrific photos of six year olds being made,

538
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: and then leaving grad school, getting on the subway to

539
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: go and then pick up my dry cleaning and having

540
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: to reconcile the reality that that does exist on my

541
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: watch even as I'm paying my dry cleaning bill and

542
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: how to reckons, And I still wrestle with that. And

543
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: I've spent many decades of my life, I imagine sitting

544
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: in this, I'm extraordinarily fortunate knowing that I stand on

545
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: the shoulders of privileges that were fairly earned but mostly

546
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 1: not and you know the state of the world, and

547
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: so it's a really hard it's a really hard balance.

548
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: Then I worked at the United Nations and we packaged

549
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: a list celebrities with global issues, which was like the

550
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: first time that that happened. How did working at the

551
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: u N happen? How did you decide you wanted to

552
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: go there? How does one get a job there? One

553
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: does not get a job at the u N unless

554
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: they're extraordinarily persistent. And this is that I have for

555
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: everyone again, which is this like belief that there's some

556
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: grand person or exam or institution that is untouchable unless

557
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: you have five PhDs. No, in today's world, if you

558
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: have an email address and access to WiFi, you can

559
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: google the head of a department their email their LinkedIn

560
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: and you can full blown reach out to them and

561
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: pitch yourself, which is essentially what I did for many

562
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: months until someone when I was finally like, okay, you

563
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: can come and do have an internship. And when I

564
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: say that young people often is when they're like, how

565
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: did you get in there? How do you When people

566
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: approach me to work with me, it's I often say

567
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: yes quite quickly if they come to me with the

568
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: idea six bait where they're like, hey, I think you

569
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: need to do this, this is how I would do it,

570
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: this is the strategy, the timeline, how much it's gonna cost,

571
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to own the project that gets an

572
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: easy yes from me. And that's what I did. At

573
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: the u N. I was like, I think we should

574
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: bring more celebrities together with more global issues and create

575
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: curriculum and then see if we can go to places

576
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: like MTV and create content around it. And they're like,

577
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: go for it, and you did, and that's what we did.

578
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: So what was the kind of stuff Because you mentioned

579
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: no one was doing this, no one was leveraging sort

580
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: of celebrity platforms and outreach to partner with issues. So

581
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: at the time, this was obviously a new a new

582
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: way to do Yeah, it was new strategy, a new

583
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: way to talk about impact. So what were some of

584
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: the issues that you worked on? Child soldiers, um uh,

585
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: terrorism in Northern Ireland. So this is dating me a bit.

586
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: We did a great project with jay Z around water

587
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: and sanitation. He went to two different countries in Africa

588
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: and spent some days um looking at what is required

589
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: for youth to have access to water and juggle education.

590
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: We did gun violence, we did sanitation based issues. So

591
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: it was really landlines in Cambo. Yeah. Um, so it

592
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: was really again looking at a bunch of problems. If

593
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: I go back to the gentleman in the wheelchair, we

594
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: have there's this long list of social issues and we

595
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: all have to participate in solving them and and most

596
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: of them had solutions, but bringing attention to them. I

597
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: remember when I had this moment where Angeline and Julie

598
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: I think it was just Angelina went to Haiti with

599
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: Ye Cleugh and there was a tiny little article about

600
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: it in like a People magazine, and I was like, wait,

601
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: a second People magazine will cover Angelina going to Haiti

602
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: and look at some of the living conditions there. Will

603
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: wait a second, why doesn't Angelina just go to all

604
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: these places around the world if People Magazine will come

605
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: with her. Because I often thought about one the audience

606
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: of the people who are us weekly were very privileged,

607
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: well educated, lovely intentions, well meaning um women who can

608
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: do things to make the world a better place. And

609
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: you saw that same democratic immediately after the Haitian earthquake,

610
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: for example, donate hundreds of millions of dollars to the

611
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: Asian Relief Fund. Or same thing with the tsunami in Indonesia,

612
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: where I kept saying to my colleagues at the u N, y'all,

613
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: only because these issues are being covered, is the rest

614
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: of the country now texting a pledge? When that first

615
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: started coming out, so many people are very willing to

616
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: give their money and willing to give up themselves and

617
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: the resources that they have to help solve the problem.

618
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: We just have to get these stories in front of them.

619
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a cool idea, and now it's

620
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: obviously so ubiquitous. When you mentioned having been a teacher,

621
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: was that before or after the u N Where did

622
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: teaching kind of fit into the equation? I was a

623
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: first grade teacher after I graduated undergrad and it is

624
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: still my most favorite position and I cannot wait to

625
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: return to the classroom. What did you love about it?

626
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: Watching the wheel spin when students are trying to process

627
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: hard concepts about humanity. Because of course, I closed my

628
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: door and we taught off curriculum and we were studying

629
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: Jane Goodall and Gandhi and Martin Luther King and just

630
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: things that I happened to have been obsessed with. I

631
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: had a principal who, for good or for not, did

632
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: not care what I was doing in the classroom. So

633
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: it was like off to the races um and just

634
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,479
Speaker 1: watching them try to process good and evil, watch them

635
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: find value and self worth in doing something for another student.

636
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: To me, and I still say this as I wrestle

637
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: with the education and my two children. I don't really

638
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: care if my daughter can nail the quadratic formula. I

639
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: just want her to be a good person. And I

640
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: said that to the parents of my students at the

641
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: first back to school night. I was like, Hey, I

642
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: cannot promise they're going to kill they're spelling, but I

643
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: promise you like they are going to have a global

644
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: perspective that's going to help them find humility and responsibility.

645
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: And I still talk I still talk to those students

646
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: all the time. I love so teaching. Obviously. What sticks

647
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,479
Speaker 1: out for me in the way that you talk about

648
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: teaching is that it's so obviously highlights what's important in

649
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: the formation of a wholehearted human. And I think that

650
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: our education system could certainly use some work two teach

651
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: us how to be in the world, rather than simply

652
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: to teach us our multiplication tables. So I imagine that

653
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: a lot of those lessons, be they you know, full

654
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: consciousness kind of awareness, top of mind lists, or more

655
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: subconscious aha lightbulb moments, informed the work you were than

656
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: doing at the U. N Well, what what happened was

657
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: is I realized that my students were craving this character

658
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: based education that the curriculum, the California State standards wasn't providing.

659
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: And so I went rogue and didn't myself. And again

660
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: I am not any smarter than anyone else who is

661
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast today. I just sort of figured

662
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: it out. I just trouble shooted some you know, potential

663
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: scenarios and and um, and I realized that it was

664
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: easy to scale those that kind of education and I said, Okay,

665
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: I have my nineteen first graders who I'm obsessed with.

666
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: And I even tried to make a deal with the

667
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: distract and they almost actually they let me do it,

668
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: but I still had to leave to go to grad school.

669
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to travel with my students for like to

670
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: first to second grade, to third to fourth grade, just

671
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: to continue to do this work with them. And but

672
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: what I realized was the lessons that I was teaching them,

673
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: I could scale UM and could get to more students

674
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: more quickly, or to more youth more quickly. And I

675
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: had heard a statistic that Barney the Purple Dinosaur was

676
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: in thirty seven different countries the television show and had

677
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: a reach of eighty million viewers under the age of

678
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: like eight or something like that. And I was like,

679
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: it is second if I can find a value, if

680
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: there's a way to scale values based education, which you know,

681
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: organization like Sesame Street and I will shamelessly plug them

682
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: as I um uh on their advisory board and I

683
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: think they're one of the best organizations. I love Sesame

684
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: Streets so much. Me too, And most people have no

685
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: appreciation for the work that they're doing abroad. This is

686
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: not just what we are seeing UM on air and

687
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: the A B c s, which we are eternally grateful for,

688
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: but they're they're teaching dignity. And so when I realized that,

689
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: I was like, oh wait a second, let me just

690
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: let me give this scaling of character based education to go.

691
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: And then I left, went to grad school, went to

692
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: un and started doing all this character based education sort

693
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: of in in People magazine and with American women, and

694
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: then UH came up with my own television concept where

695
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: we took spoiled American teenagers to live with indigenous cultures

696
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: around the world and used one of my cousins as

697
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: a guinea pig for the pilot, and we went over

698
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: to Kenya to live with the Messi and she went

699
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: through a modern day coming of age ceremony. And in

700
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: some communities and some asside communities in Sub Saharan Africa,

701
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: they circumcised women. And there's one particular family in the

702
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: Messi community was raised their hand not to do that anymore,

703
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: and so they came up with a UM, a pseudo

704
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: coming of age ceremony and writes of passage. Ceremonies are

705
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: so important in society, and I don't think we have

706
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: enough of them, And so I put my cousin through

707
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: this parallel um coming of age ceremony obviously both in

708
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: the side and my cousin stands circumcision and shot that

709
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: when I was like twenty four, and I sold that

710
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: trailer to MTV and turn that into a television series

711
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: known as Exile. Mm hmmm, how do you look back

712
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: on that experience now? Because I think about our increased

713
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: awareness and and sensitivity to understanding our impact, you know,

714
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 1: traveling into communities, traveling into indigenous cultures. Are there are

715
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: there things that stand out to you that really worked

716
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: as an education piece of that show When you think

717
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: back on your like twenty four year old idea, are

718
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: there things you would do differently? I'm curious, like, how

719
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: do how does that hold up now? I don't know

720
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: if I would do that again. I don't know if

721
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: I could do that again. I have spent a lot

722
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: of time with indigenous community these throughout my career, both

723
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: of the u N and in research for this book,

724
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time on the Denay Reservation

725
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: also known as the Navajo Reservation and and the role

726
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: that primarily white people play in coming into their communities

727
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: and UM, at least for what it was that I did.

728
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: However long ago it was for this television series wouldn't

729
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: hold up to my moral and ethical bar anymore. You know,

730
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: we were There's there's this fine balance between educating people

731
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: about a community, and I was obsessed with the preservation

732
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: of indigenous languages and the preservation of culture, also trying

733
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: to do find ways to wedge women and girls rights

734
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: into those things. But there really isn't my work to

735
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: be done, and those aren't my stories to tell, surely,

736
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: not to create a piece of content and then to

737
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: to UM then air it on MTV. But I will

738
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: say that mtb AS at that time had a spectacular

739
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: viewership worldwide, and there were many viewers who signed up

740
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: to join the Peace Corps, which is a two and

741
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: a half year commitment in the rural community somewhere in

742
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: the world, so it's not to be bought at. And

743
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: then there were other viewers who are like, oh, I

744
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: didn't realize Africa was a continent. I thought it was

745
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: just a country, right, So there's this huge spectrum ponces

746
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: from viewers and then one of the other uh, full

747
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: circle moments for me with regards to the show. As

748
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: I was in Bahrain and I came across a camel

749
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: farmer and he was like, Oh, you're American. I just

750
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: finished watching this television show about this girl who went

751
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: to Thailand and she started crying because of the risk

752
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: of malaria and da da da da da. And I

753
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, that's my show, and he started laughing.

754
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: He's like a new Americans had that coming. You guys

755
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: have such lessons to learn about the way the state

756
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: of the rest of the world. And I had this

757
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: moment of like, oh, is this is there a foreign

758
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: polo see element here in this content about watching Americans

759
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: go through um very humbling experience about their privilege, And

760
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: I think there is. That's very cool. So what's the

761
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: path from the u N and content creation to organize?

762
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: So I when I created this television show titled Exiled,

763
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: I left un to produce and direct it, and then

764
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: I created a boutique content creation firm to help nonprofits

765
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: celebrities sort of tell their story better. This is my issue.

766
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: This is a workshop that I was on last night.

767
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: One of the top organizations in the world that no

768
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: peace building organizations in the world that nobody knows about.

769
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: They participated in the negotiations in Rwanda between the WHO

770
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: two and the Tutsis are on the front lines of

771
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: what's happening in Yemen with the Ranga, and nobody knows

772
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: about them. So I'm always like, the people are doing

773
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: God's work, No, but he knows their stories and nobody

774
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: knows yet behind them and support them, and people want

775
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: to and so I'm I became very passionate about finding

776
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: issues that I could help market and communicate again the

777
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: five thousand foot perspective and the thirty five thousand foot

778
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: perspective on the issue and pubalizing more people and resources

779
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: around it. And then I got connected with my co founder,

780
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: Greg whose father waited uh five years for heart And

781
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: admittedly I wasn't particularly interested in the organ donation crisis

782
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: in this country. I was my eyes had always sort

783
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: of been abroad, you know. I was like, well, let's

784
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: talk about you know, water and sanitation in parts of Substanharan, Africa,

785
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: or let's talk about landmines. Was talking about saving the

786
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: whales organ donation. I feel like that's probably, you know,

787
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: far down on my list of things that I wanted

788
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: to try to tackle but after a couple of months

789
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: of really workshopping what the potential solutions were, I had

790
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: this very this moment of clarity that oh, wait a second,

791
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: there's actually some really concrete, turnkey solutions that can be

792
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 1: applied here that not just solve a problem, but could

793
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: expedite and cattle pull the state of organization crisis to

794
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: a place of solution, not at some point in my lifetime,

795
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: but in my very near lifetime. What interests me about

796
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: those things because I began so much of my activist

797
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: work abroad as well, And the light bulb moment for

798
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: me was when I realized that I have always had

799
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: this really ridiculous assumption that here, in this very privileged country,

800
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: there were obviously adults in charge of our problems. There

801
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: was somebody responsible handling things here. Yeah, there's them. And

802
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: you realize, especially since there is no them, there's literally

803
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: nobody who is optimizing our systems. There's there, there just aren't.

804
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: And so that to to your earlier point about how

805
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: you have to find the new front lines. You have

806
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: to find, you know, the moms in every community that

807
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: are working on fixing problems, the people who are dealing

808
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: with housing crises, homelessness, gun violence. There are there are

809
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: all these boots on the ground everywhere because so many

810
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: of our systems are broken. And you, I'm so lucky

811
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 1: because of our friendship and our overlap. When you were

812
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: starting organized and launching the program for me to hear

813
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: in real time how utterly inefficient and non communicative across

814
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: even state lines, as you said, our organ donation and

815
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: harvesting program is in America was so shocking to me,

816
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: Like the fact that all these organs go to waste

817
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: when people are dying waiting for organs was just bonkers.

818
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I loved was seeing

819
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: how easy you made it for anyone and to join

820
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: a registry by simply sending a tweet, by posting an

821
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: Instagram like anything. Once you posted something, it was it

822
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: was in a national data bank and problem solved. If

823
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, God forbid you were ever in a fatal

824
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: car accident or whatever, there there was an answer and

825
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: an immediate solution. How did you How did you guys

826
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: come to understand, as you said, that this could be solvable,

827
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: not even in your lifetime, but in the immediate future. Well,

828
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: I think the lessons that I took from when I

829
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: stepped up to that plate that I can apply to

830
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: today is that some of the systems are so broken

831
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: that it's almost like just scrapped the whole thing and

832
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: start over, which is for some of the technicalities of

833
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: registering to become an organ owner, how you're declaring your

834
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: end of life wishes to your next of kin, Like

835
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: that was easy. That was easy to do. Some of

836
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: the policy relate aided efforts that we have been working

837
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: on are still ongoing. And I had made a commitment

838
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: to the organization community and my partner um that I

839
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: was going to give this issue five years and no more.

840
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: And we were like, oh, yeah, we can wrap this

841
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: up in five years, and like we potentially could have

842
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: if sten looked a little different, but it's still it's

843
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: still an ongoing process. And then what's ultimately happening is

844
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: that once you're like, okay, I solve that, you're like,

845
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: oh wait a second, But there's that one thing right

846
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: behind it that maybe if we just that's which we

847
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: could increase it by another we could say, tax player

848
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 1: billions of dollars, Well, what's right behind that? And so

849
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: what I found is that there's there's definitively know them,

850
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: particularly when there's an assumption, particularly when an industry or

851
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: a system is being run by organization and institutions that

852
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: are employing people who have to secure healthcare and have

853
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: to secure food on their tables, there's not a lot

854
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: of encouragement to rock the boat and to challenge and

855
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: to ask harder questions. And and that's just not how

856
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: the American narrative and system is structured. That says, for

857
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: junior person, you should ask the hardest question to the

858
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: most senior person. Like that's just not our government or

859
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: charts are situated. But but what I found is that

860
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: it's much easier to maneuver when you're sitting on the

861
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: edge of the sandbox versus in the smack middle of it.

862
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: It's that same experience when you get on a flight

863
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: and you start talking to the person next to you

864
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: and you tell them all of your woes and they

865
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: can just start poking holes and setting the record real straight,

866
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: real quick, like almost the further outside of the system

867
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: are the easier it is to maneuver. And so we

868
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: an organization definitely stayed on the outside, and we were

869
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: constantly reminded, like you've paid your dues. You are not

870
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: in the inside. You do not know what you're talking

871
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: thinking about. And that was just like intentionally so, and

872
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: what you said earlier about boots on the ground, There

873
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: is no them that's going to fix it. And sometimes

874
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: there are right, like there's amazing women on the front

875
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 1: lines of the labor and delivery crisis in this country,

876
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: or where we have where black women are three to

877
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: four times more likely to die in pregnancy related deaths

878
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: than their white women even if they have like two

879
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: or three higher degrees of education. In New York City twelve,

880
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: there's amazing women on the front line solving those problems.

881
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: So them exists in that situation, and our responsibility to

882
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: them is at resources and to do what it is

883
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: that they say that they need, which is a very

884
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: unique position. But in some cases, like who's making sure

885
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: that there's healthier food at your kids school, who's taking

886
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: care of the elderly down the street, Who's like there's

887
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 1: for them there? That's you, Yeah, yeah, And I think

888
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: it's so incredibly important to identify those pockets and those

889
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: varying degrees of tangible activists that might be around you

890
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: because so many people, to your point, say I want

891
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: to help and don't know where to start. And and

892
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: some of the best advice I've ever heard is help

893
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: the helpers show up and help the people who are

894
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: already working on this, which leads us to the book,

895
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: the book. I'm so excited to talk about the book.

896
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: So for our listeners, Jenna wrote this incredible book. It's

897
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: called Raising Our Hands. How white women can stop avoiding

898
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: hard conversations, start accepting responsibility, and find our place on

899
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: the new front lines. And you mentioned it earlier that

900
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,439
Speaker 1: after after women who look like you and who look

901
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: like me realized that so many women who look like

902
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: us betrayed us and really betrayed women, but obviously didn't

903
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: think that that's what they were doing. Like, I don't

904
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: imagine that many of the percentage of white women, you know,

905
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: sixty three plus percent who voted for Donald Trump, thought

906
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm absolutely going to sell out women and the environment

907
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: and my communities and my education system and health care

908
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: and and and by voting for this man, I'm going

909
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 1: to vote to close down the pandemic response networks. And

910
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: I don't think people got it. But we've also heard

911
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: a lot of really compelling arguments that explain what proximal

912
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: power looks like in the structure of white supremacy and

913
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: the patriarchy. And so you took the shock that so

914
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: many of us felt and said, I'm gonna go interview

915
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: all these women and figure out why they did this?

916
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: Why why? Why did this feel like a reasonable option

917
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:58,720
Speaker 1: rather than voting for a woman like what? How? Why?

918
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: So you you picked up and you went on these

919
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: listening tours all across the country. Where did you go

920
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: and what kinds of women were you seeking out to

921
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: speak to? What ended up happening immediately after the Women's Well,

922
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 1: there was the election November eight. On November nine, when

923
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: some of the data was coming through and it was

924
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: saying there was numbers that were saying between fifty two

925
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: and of white female voters voted for Trump. That mixed

926
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: with a lot of the difficult conversations I was having

927
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: in my own family. As I mentioned earlier, I come

928
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: from a very large family. My mom is one of nine.

929
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: It's not that simple, but one of nine for for

930
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 1: for the point of this conversation, and some of them

931
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: voted for Trump. I mean, these are human beings who

932
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: loved me and raised me and produced me. Right produced

933
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: like raging. We have to go. We works in the

934
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: toilet to offset you know, the amount of water waste

935
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: every time we flushed. Jenna still pull the lever for Trump,

936
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: and to take knowing who they were and their kindness

937
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: and their love and their good intention, and how they've

938
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: been such a phenomenal support system and cheerleaders for me

939
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: over the years, watching them pull the lever, hoping in

940
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: my head it was just the four of them, right,

941
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: like just those four women are the only women in

942
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: America that were God forbid, would be pulling the lever

943
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: for Trump. And then seeing how many women showed up

944
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: at the Women's March and looking at it a sea

945
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: of while a lot of pink hats worn by a

946
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of white women, and I reconcile, um, the

947
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: women I know who did vote for Trump, who were

948
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: are phenomenal and loving and all of the good things women,

949
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: human beings with what I what I knew in my bones,

950
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: he stood for. And then watching so many of them

951
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: show up on the streets, just the math wasn't adding up.

952
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: And what's saying is, right after the Women's March, I

953
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: went and um, I spent some time with the organizers

954
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: of the Women's March in Wyoming. So just to we're clear,

955
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: the national team only organized one march in Washington, d C.

956
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: We picked across Street, we picked a logo, we created messaging,

957
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: and then all these six sixty seven other marches worldwide

958
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: were organized by other women in that zip code in

959
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: that city. And so in this one town in Cheyenne, Wyoming,

960
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: there were a handful of organizers mind do Wyoming as

961
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: the red est state in the country, and they expected

962
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: to fifty people to show up, and tre people showed up,

963
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: and they were telling you, like, and everybody voted for

964
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump in that election. So even people who

965
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily aligned with the messaging of why we were

966
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: marching and protesting that day still showed up. And so

967
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: trying to reconcile the voting behaviors with the amount of love,

968
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: intention and intention that I found with the women I

969
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: knew in my life who had ultimately voted for him,

970
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,479
Speaker 1: And there was no data that existed in this going

971
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: back to the who's the them? So I heard I've

972
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: heard for years from activists of color who have said,

973
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, white people, go get white people, White women

974
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: go get white women, what what's going on with your cousins?

975
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: What's going on? And I never really understood what that meant.

976
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: So right after the women's manchers like, all right, who's

977
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: going to ask the hard questions of white women? And

978
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: I like had this moment where I was looking around,

979
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: like peering over fences, like who's doing the work so

980
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:40,959
Speaker 1: I can sign up for the listener, donate the money,

981
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: help the helpers. And I realized that nobody was Do

982
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: we have this statistic around white American voters that surfaces

983
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: during the mid terms and during the presidential and a

984
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: couple of really key facts. White American women are the

985
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: largest voting block in the United States. They take up

986
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: forty two of the voting block. They will be the

987
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: largest voting block through six Even when white people become

988
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: a minority in this country, white women and their vote

989
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: will still control fifty six of the hundred Senate seats.

990
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:25,959
Speaker 1: So here we have this demographic, the most powerful voting

991
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: demographic in the country. Even even if we bring all

992
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: the disenfranchise voters online, they're still the most powerful because

993
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: of where they're aggregated throughout the country. Based on our

994
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: electoral college and nobody is going to have conversations with

995
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: them about their voting habits outside of SANA and Fox, MSNBC.

996
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, no, this isn't working. And

997
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: so when I look back at what worked when you

998
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: were taking celebrities to go look at global issues, or

999
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: when I look back and what I did in creating

1000
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: the television show where we took spoiled American teenagers to

1001
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: live with those indigenous cultures and the viewers were like

1002
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: oh wow and putting things together and there was no

1003
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: one doing that. I was like, well, let me go

1004
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: see what's really on the mind of these women. So

1005
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: I traveled to so many different types of zip codes

1006
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: throughout the country. I loved it, and I want to

1007
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: continue to do it. Um. So if you're listening and

1008
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: you want to have a listening circle, I am. I

1009
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: am totally game. And what I tried to do is

1010
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: I it was very much focused on white American women,

1011
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: and I tried to take that demographic and break it

1012
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: down into the most stereotypical stereotypical variables that I could.

1013
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,919
Speaker 1: So I spend time with like fifty year old rich

1014
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: Jewish women from outside of Cleveland. I spend time with

1015
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: evangelicals that are new moms from the South. I spend

1016
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: time with Catholics, Republicans, people all across the socio economic spectrum,

1017
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: all across the gender spectrum um. And I asked really

1018
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: difficult questions about power, proximity, privileged, the things that they

1019
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about, the things they didn't, and I

1020
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: just kept pushing My front line still was then still

1021
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: is today? Is asked those questions about self worth in

1022
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: the context of being a citizen, in the context of

1023
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: being a protect country today, and it was that that

1024
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: there was a total void. So what what did you hear?

1025
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: What what do you what do you mean by the void?

1026
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: What were some of the things that you heard that

1027
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: surprised you. Well, one of the things that I that

1028
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: was that my research confirmed was something that I had

1029
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: heard from other primarily academics and other activists, like Robin

1030
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: de Angelo, the author of White Fragility, who has mentioned

1031
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: that white progressives are extraordinarily dangerous. And I didn't appreciate

1032
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: that until I got into conversations with progressive women who

1033
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: were performing in ways and I used the term performing

1034
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: very intentionally, who were performing their understanding of the world.

1035
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: And I cringe at this wokeness in ways that some

1036
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: of the more conservative women that I spend time with,

1037
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: who had always voted Republican, who had voted who voted

1038
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: Republican in twenty sixteen, they weren't so quick to demonstrate

1039
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: that they have good handle on their biases. So what

1040
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: I found was a level of insecurity around self worth

1041
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: that I think is continuing to bubble up even more.

1042
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: That this um lack of conviction that there is that

1043
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: you are needed. Which is really really important to me,

1044
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: is this idea that that that people and women know

1045
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: that we want them on the front lines with us,

1046
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: that there's this well, I don't I don't know enough.

1047
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: Who am I to make a positive difference? What if

1048
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: I do something to screw up? So there was a

1049
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: lot of that broken record pretty continuously, So that was similar.

1050
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: The difference was very much um the humility that the

1051
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 1: different political parties were willing to discuss again related to

1052
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: Raach gender in class. Some of the things that were

1053
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: the most shocking to me. The most shocking to me,

1054
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: which is my favorite question, and I encourage listeners if

1055
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: you do nothing else after this podcast except by the

1056
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 1: book obviously, is ask yourself the question of what are

1057
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: you willing to fight for besides your kids, or your

1058
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: family or your loved ones. And asking that question in

1059
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: that specific way forced forced participants to really go beyond

1060
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: the obvious. And I won't name names intentionally, but there

1061
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: was one group of women who were like seventy five

1062
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: years and older from Virginia, most them politically conservative. My

1063
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: sense was at about twelve of the fifteen participants voted

1064
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: for Trump and I posed the question what you willing

1065
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: to fight for beside your children? And one of the

1066
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: participants hand went up real quick and said, well, I've

1067
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 1: marched in all the anti abortion marches for the past

1068
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: ten years. I'm a I'm a I'm a strong pro lifer.

1069
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: Which we're not letting that conversation get hijacked the pro

1070
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: life Um, we're all pro life, but this anti abortion

1071
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: activists had marched for for so long and so fast forward.

1072
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: I feel like it's very important to clarify that you

1073
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: are either pro choice or pro forced birth. All people

1074
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: are pro life. Yeah, yeah, thank you for that positive.

1075
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: It's a good piece of vacation. So so, she said,

1076
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: I marched in all the anti abortion marches for the

1077
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: past ten years in d C. And I'm very proud

1078
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: of it. Okay, great, And during these listening circles, I

1079
01:05:54,760 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: have a stoic face, I mean oscar Worthy stoicism, and

1080
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: I said, okay, file that away, and she was continued

1081
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,919
Speaker 1: to drink her mare low and breathe. And fast forward

1082
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: a couple of years. I was posing the question about

1083
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: what it means to give back and what it means

1084
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: to be an active citizen, and they were expressing their

1085
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 1: frustration with their not being great vehicles to do that,

1086
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: which is something that I did here pretty consistently, And

1087
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: so I started posing this circumstances. Imagine if there was

1088
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: a woman who had two children, was juggling two jobs,

1089
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: found herself pregnant and decided she wanted to determinate the

1090
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: third because of limited resources um and the toll it

1091
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: would take on her first and her two other children.

1092
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: And I said, and she needed four dollars to terminate

1093
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: the pregnancy, but she didn't have it. This is a

1094
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: hypothetical situation. And I posed the question to the room,

1095
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: would you help her? Would you slide four eight dollars

1096
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: across the table to her? And they all, including this

1097
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: one woman who had marched in the anti abortion march

1098
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: for ten years. Said absolutely, And I said, hold on pause.

1099
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I have this cract.

1100
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: You are an ardent anti abortion activists, yet you would

1101
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: slide four eighty dollars across the table to a woman

1102
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: who decided you want to determinate says yes, because abortion

1103
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: might not be for me. And I don't necessarily want

1104
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: that from my from my daughters or from my grand

1105
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: for my granddaughters. But I recognize the difficult plight that

1106
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: this woman is facing of a life of limited resources

1107
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 1: in bandwidth. And I said, okay, well there's vehicles to

1108
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: get her four dollars, like, if you're willing to, we

1109
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: can help you do that. She's yeah, but I don't.

1110
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 1: I don't trust any of that. I don't trust any

1111
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: of those large institutions. And she listed some of the

1112
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: obvious ones, and and so I had this moment of like, wow,

1113
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: So the then diagram of this anti abortion activist and

1114
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: somebody like me who's very pro choice we overlap like

1115
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: the way except for that moment of like, she just

1116
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: doesn't want it for her, but she's okay if somebody

1117
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: else does it, right, But what's So interesting to me

1118
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:12,439
Speaker 1: about that is this woman, this anti abortion activist, would

1119
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: literally have paid for this hypothetical woman's abortion, but will

1120
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: vote to defund the place where this woman could have

1121
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: gotten birth control to not even get pregnant a third

1122
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 1: time in the first place. So there's a there's a

1123
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: disconnect here between the ways that we want to support

1124
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 1: each other and and the ways we're voting. Well, and then,

1125
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: but let me see if I can throw this needle

1126
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: for you. The reason she votes for a party that

1127
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 1: is anti abortion has less to do with the topic

1128
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: and more to do with her not feeling qualified to

1129
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: make an educated decision. So in the early seventies there

1130
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: was a big effort to get more women to the

1131
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: Republican Party. What better way to sort of touch upon

1132
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: the emotive strings of women than through babies, right, Because

1133
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: when rob Wade was passed, it was passed under a

1134
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: primarily conservative judicial bench. And so with the political what

1135
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: the Republican political Party did is they were just like,

1136
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: we need more women voters, because they understood the power

1137
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: of the female vote. We need more female voters. So

1138
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 1: let's just come up with an issue. Oh that has

1139
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 1: to do with something that's going to make them freaking out, Well,

1140
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,440
Speaker 1: babies will work, and that's how they sort of hijacked abortion.

1141
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 1: And then they said, you just have to vote down

1142
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,879
Speaker 1: this ticket. And people have been doing it for decades.

1143
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 1: Even my loved ones were like, I'm just voting down

1144
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: the anti abortion ticket because that gives them the freedom

1145
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: to completely check out. That gives them the freedom to

1146
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 1: ask the really hard questions about the candidate with the

1147
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 1: best foreign policy platform or the best environmental policy platform,

1148
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: because it's not the they don't care about education and

1149
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: environment and healthcare and all of the other things. Is

1150
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: that because the way that our media is structured and

1151
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: the way that we get information, the fire hose is

1152
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,839
Speaker 1: too hard to navigate, So it's not easy and simple

1153
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: for the average person to be able to navigate through

1154
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 1: so much of that information. So instead of trying to

1155
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: do it, failing, feeling dumb, being reminded that you're not

1156
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: worthy and capable anymore, I'm just going to defer to

1157
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: my husband and or my father and the party that

1158
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: they've always voted for, that would be the Republican Party,

1159
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:41,879
Speaker 1: and I'll use abortion as my excuse. Wow. Wow, that's wild.

1160
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 1: It's it's I'm curious about where religion plays into all

1161
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: of this, because I think, similarly to the conversation around

1162
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: reproductive freedoms, religion has really been co opted. And and

1163
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: then I'm curious amidst all of this seeing how much

1164
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 1: we act actually overlap in these ven diagrams. What makes

1165
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 1: you hopeful about these women, about about women, about us,

1166
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: about us changing the religious institution is just that it's

1167
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: another institution that has been working for centuries, and as

1168
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:22,480
Speaker 1: we're seeing in every pew, be it in a synagogue

1169
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: or in a church, they're particularly empty these days. And

1170
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:30,679
Speaker 1: not just like right now, but like for the past decade,

1171
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 1: there has been a movement away from organized religion because

1172
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: I think people are starting to call into question, not

1173
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: necessarily the hard things that are supposed to be wrestled

1174
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: with under a roof of a religious institution, your relationship

1175
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 1: with God, your relationship with yourself, your relationship to fellow

1176
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: man human, but the role that religion does play in

1177
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 1: the larger world, the rules that it protects um One

1178
01:11:57,720 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: of the things I get into a Great Death in

1179
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: chapter two in particular, is this checklist that we all have,

1180
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: we're all expected to check. It's sort of this blueprint

1181
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: that has been sculpted over generations, This great American pretending

1182
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 1: I like to call it, which is a series of

1183
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: two dues that are very structured primarily for women, starting

1184
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: from preschool all the way up until they get to

1185
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: make the most privileged decision of their life, which I'll

1186
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: see if you can figure out which that blueprint is.

1187
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 1: Sporty and cute in in grade school, have enough friends

1188
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: in middle school that you can pick whatever um table

1189
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: you want to sit in at the cafeteria. In high school,

1190
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: lots of friends, and you know you're constantly asked you

1191
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: have a boyfriend, You have a boyfriend, if you can

1192
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: close the deal on the prom queen title, then you know,

1193
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: you're reminded that you're better than everybody else, and everybody

1194
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: else can also feel pretty bad about themselves. You move

1195
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: into undergrad and again you're drilled constantly around whether or

1196
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: not you have a boyfriend. Your studies tend to be

1197
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 1: a second question from your grandparents or your aunts or

1198
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: your neighbor down the street. Once you graduate, yeah it's cute.

1199
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: Go live in one of the major cities in the country.

1200
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: Now is the time to do it. But you need

1201
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: to have somebody on your bench that is potentially going

1202
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: to put a ring on your finger, and if you don't,

1203
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with you. Assuming you find that partner,

1204
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: assuming he puts a ring on your finger, then you

1205
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 1: spend the next six months or eighteen months talking about

1206
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 1: the wedding, the dress, cut, strap list or not DJ

1207
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,520
Speaker 1: or a band. Before the last wedding present is unwrapped,

1208
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: you're then asked what when are you going to have

1209
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: a baby? And then, assuming you can get pregnant and

1210
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: carry it to term, three months before your first child,

1211
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: you were asked the most privileged question of most women

1212
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: in the entire world. It is a past. It's a

1213
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: past that American women get to pick up or not.

1214
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: You're asked, what question is it? Are you going to

1215
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: go back to work or stay at home? What kind

1216
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 1: of question at or thirty two is that? And I'm

1217
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: not interested in the mommy wars. Let's keep that in

1218
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: the nineties, for it belongs. But this idea of you

1219
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 1: have to choose whether you're gonna maintain a professional existence

1220
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: or whether or not you're going to raise your children.

1221
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,639
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter which direction you take. You're then handed

1222
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: a bucket of guilt to pour on your head for

1223
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: the fraternity no matter what you choose. And let's assume

1224
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: you're in a heteronormative relationship. They never ask your husband

1225
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: that question. A man has never been asked when his

1226
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: wife is four weeks away from her due date, are

1227
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: you going to stay home with your baby or go

1228
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: back to your office job. So when women say to me,

1229
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: you know what, I do really feel like women have

1230
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: the same access to power and opportunity and success is men,

1231
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: I always go back to this question. So, well, if

1232
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:06,759
Speaker 1: women are allowed to opt out of their professional career

1233
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: and raised children, then why are we giving extending that

1234
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: same privilege to men like that? If you want to

1235
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: talk about an equalizing question, the biggest fork in the

1236
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: road for women in this country is when they become mothers.

1237
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 1: It is not that for father's period. Full stuff. And

1238
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: even in a day and age when we're so desperate

1239
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: to say, you know, there are men who are getting

1240
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night to change diapers

1241
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 1: or um men are only more responsibility in the house.

1242
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:43,759
Speaker 1: Their studies that are coming out that women still labor

1243
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: forward attend times harder than there are men. And I

1244
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,640
Speaker 1: will say this question about whether or not you're going

1245
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 1: to stay at home or work. It's sometimes people push

1246
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:55,440
Speaker 1: back and they say, oh, that's so, that's socio economic.

1247
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 1: It's not. I've had conversations with women on military basis

1248
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: where you know, they're living off of a very nominal

1249
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: salary for their partners and they're still opting out and

1250
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: they just make it work based on their salary. So

1251
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 1: women one of the most educated, because access to our

1252
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: education system, one of the most educated, the most powerful,

1253
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: and the voting booth the most well resourced. Meaning American

1254
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: women make all of the consumer decisions for our family.

1255
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: They decide the toothpaste, are the religion, the schools that

1256
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: our kids are going to go to. At the when

1257
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 1: they start having children, they're given the past to opt

1258
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: out of participating in reading the headlines and participating in

1259
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: things people you know, just raising your kids or you know,

1260
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: they're there elements, and then they opt up. And I

1261
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: would take it a step farther and argue, not only

1262
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: are we given a pass, we're encouraged because women are,

1263
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: as you said, we're affected by this notion of children

1264
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 1: and other people's children. And if women are really up

1265
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 1: on the news, we rage and we protest kids in

1266
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: cages at the border. So if they can keep moms

1267
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,480
Speaker 1: removed from the news, you have less of a likelihood

1268
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 1: of an empathetic and enraged controlling the purse strings, you know,

1269
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: consumer base swinging political group. So to disenfranchise women, to

1270
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: keep women saddled with so much unpaid labor in the

1271
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 1: home that they don't have time to pay attention to

1272
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 1: the news is an excellent way to keep us numb

1273
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: and dumb and out of the voting booth. And and

1274
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: when there's two things happening. One, there's very literally no

1275
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 1: about with I hear this a lot, and like I

1276
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: am the first raise my hand on this subject. I

1277
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 1: sometimes really struggle to get to my news. I will

1278
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: sometimes and it doesn't happen until when I get in bed,

1279
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:57,439
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, I could sit here and read

1280
01:17:57,439 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 1: the news, or I could go to sleep because I

1281
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 1: only slept five hours the night before. So there's the

1282
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: there's a lack of access to like smart, sharp quick

1283
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:10,799
Speaker 1: information one. And then too, I remember during the Muller trials,

1284
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: I was writing the book, and I would like tap

1285
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 1: out for three or four days because I would dive

1286
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: into a really deep rabbit hole, and then I'd come

1287
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: up to be like, Okay, so what's happening, and I

1288
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: would have missed so much that there was a tendency

1289
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 1: on my part to be like, you know what, I

1290
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 1: can't catch up. Forget it. I don't know. I don't

1291
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: know what's happening. I don't know the players, I don't

1292
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: know who said she said. I didn't see what happened

1293
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:31,760
Speaker 1: on Tuesdays, So now I don't know what happened on

1294
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:36,520
Speaker 1: what's happening on Thursday. And so when that happens, our instinct,

1295
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 1: because we're reminded that unless we're getting ais on tests,

1296
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 1: including being up to date on what's happening in the news,

1297
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: if you're not going to ace the understanding on what's

1298
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: happening in this particular investigation or what's happening around the world,

1299
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna instinctually step out, and then you're gonna feel

1300
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 1: like that's just gonna snowball of Well, I don't really know.

1301
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm not part of what's happening around the world. My

1302
01:18:57,960 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: husband knows more because he's reading our news because we're

1303
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,559
Speaker 1: where he's laboring forward to ten times less than you are.

1304
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 1: So I'll just defer to what he thinks. But this

1305
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: idea that we can defer to someone's paraphrasing of an

1306
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 1: issue rather than form an opinion of our own based

1307
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 1: on the issue itself is problematic. And we see how

1308
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: it's problematic again if we're overlapping in event diagram and

1309
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: we're mostly purple, yet we're voting against each other's best interests.

1310
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: The disconnect is literally costing human lives, and it's costing

1311
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: lives of women, and it's especially costing the lives of

1312
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 1: women of color. So I'm curious, looking at all of this,

1313
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: where do you see, after this entire listening tour, after

1314
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,600
Speaker 1: writing this book. And I know a lot of the

1315
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,560
Speaker 1: the calls to action and the things to do and

1316
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 1: the illuminating data is in the book. And I do

1317
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 1: want all of the listeners to get a copy, and

1318
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we'll all read it together, we'll book club.

1319
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 1: It will do something. But I wonder where you see

1320
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: the ability for us as white women to move, to

1321
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: make change, to wake up to the dissonance and shorten

1322
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 1: or close those gaps. Where where do you see it?

1323
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: A couple of places, So, in light of the work

1324
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: in Progress podcast there's so much work that has to

1325
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 1: happen on the psyche, the behaviors, the thoughts of American

1326
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: white women that if we start doing, if we start

1327
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: raising our hand to do that kind of work on ourselves,

1328
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 1: we will inherently start to be making change. And what

1329
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 1: I mean by that is, I think the most important

1330
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: tactic and the stance that we all have to take

1331
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,400
Speaker 1: is that of the inquisitive three year old. And I

1332
01:20:42,439 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: referenced my daughter ever in the book often because when

1333
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: I was writing it is when she first met a unicorn,

1334
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 1: and we spent a tremendous amount of time debating do

1335
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 1: unicorns like pink or purple better? And recognizing that that's

1336
01:20:56,439 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: a circular conversation and a debate that might not ever

1337
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,639
Speaker 1: have an outcome. There are so many debates that are

1338
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 1: comparable to that, i e. When does life first begin

1339
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,759
Speaker 1: in the womb? And whether or not you know where

1340
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 1: what happens related to abortion or not abortion, And again,

1341
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: that conversation is very much connected to women's control over

1342
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:20,679
Speaker 1: their body, so I'm not trying to minimize it to that,

1343
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,719
Speaker 1: but the idea is that there are so many different

1344
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: types of circular conversations that can be had that we

1345
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:30,520
Speaker 1: have to be willing to step into that that performance

1346
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 1: of asking really hard questions. So I find myself and

1347
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 1: the specific things I offer women are as when you're

1348
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 1: in the country club, when you're at the line, when

1349
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:41,720
Speaker 1: you're at the water pooler at work. Is when you

1350
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:46,919
Speaker 1: hear something be it a inappropriate joke or a statement

1351
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 1: like democrats want to come and take your guns, ask

1352
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 1: hard questions, Ask posing questions. Don't show up with like

1353
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 1: lots of statistics about how any of that information is off.

1354
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,680
Speaker 1: Just start asking questions about, Oh, where did you get

1355
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:04,560
Speaker 1: that information? Oh, that's really interesting. Does that then decrease

1356
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 1: the state of what's happening in our classrooms with guns? Oh?

1357
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 1: Tell me more about that. I want to hear more

1358
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 1: about your your your understanding and your position of this

1359
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,640
Speaker 1: particular subject, and the idea that like, we have to

1360
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: be willing to ask harder questions of our history. Right.

1361
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 1: That's one of the things really important in the book

1362
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 1: is that in chapter three I really dive into our

1363
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: understanding of one of the most revered presidents in history.

1364
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,639
Speaker 1: And if I ask you the question, who's the most

1365
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 1: revered American president? Who would who's at the type of

1366
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:39,719
Speaker 1: your time, Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln is always the answer. However,

1367
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: on Lincoln's watch, we launched the Native nation's genocide, killing

1368
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 1: millions of this country's original inhabitants. And the number is

1369
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: anywhere from one million Indigenous to a hundred and twenty million.

1370
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 1: And I'm really not qualified to decide what numb bird

1371
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 1: is to determine whether or not it was or wasn't

1372
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 1: a genocide, and I don't use that term lightly. The

1373
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 1: bottom line is that we all revere this one individual.

1374
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 1: Yet he launched a genocide um that completely wiped out

1375
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:18,720
Speaker 1: cultures as diverse as the Chinese to the French that

1376
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: had occupied this land. And we revere him because we

1377
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 1: revere the one good thing we've been taught since we

1378
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: were little that he did right. We it's it's the

1379
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 1: adage of if it's always the hunter who tells the

1380
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 1: story the lion, you know, Victor's right, So they paint

1381
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,640
Speaker 1: themselves in the best light possible. That's right. And I

1382
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:47,719
Speaker 1: it's one of a phenomenal scholar. His name is Mark Charles.

1383
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,679
Speaker 1: He's the one that helped me has sort of had

1384
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,840
Speaker 1: these epiphanies, particularly related to Abraham Lincoln. I encourage you

1385
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,639
Speaker 1: all to seek him out. He said to me, he

1386
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 1: was were really diving into this concept of victor's get

1387
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 1: to tell their stories. And he said, I don't jenda

1388
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 1: like what a Hitler one? What would be the story

1389
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 1: about World War two? Right? And I don't know how

1390
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: to answer that, But victors tell their stories. So again,

1391
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: if you look at the way that we tell the

1392
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 1: story about our history and what happened on the soil

1393
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: where our homes are built, where our home goods exist,

1394
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 1: where we go to get our you know, our skinny

1395
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: vanilla latte's from Starbucks, that's not new. That was somebody's

1396
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:33,599
Speaker 1: home and they were intentionally, intentionally slaughtered. So we asked

1397
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: part of questions about our history, we have to ask

1398
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 1: part of questions about our institutions, like well could I

1399
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: make is there a better way to educate our youth

1400
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: than I think what's been happening recently related to how

1401
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 1: students are being educated in their homes virtually is really

1402
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 1: challenging this idea of like in school, you know, it's

1403
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 1: challenging all the concepts around the institutions. I mean, don't

1404
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 1: get me started on higher education right now. I really

1405
01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:03,960
Speaker 1: a challenging that price tag and how those very wrote

1406
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:09,480
Speaker 1: rules are required. So start asking harder questions of our universities,

1407
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 1: of our schools, of our medical systems, of our hr departments,

1408
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 1: of fraternity policies at work, just clarifying questions. And then

1409
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 1: this is the thing that I believe, which I can't

1410
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: take any credit for this epiphany, because every philosopher and

1411
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 1: most religions and poets have been saying it for eons.

1412
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: Is what God you said, be the change you want

1413
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 1: you wish to see in the world. We have to

1414
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:39,719
Speaker 1: put ourselves under a microscope. We have to call into

1415
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 1: question our biases. We have to call into question how

1416
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 1: we're allocating resources in ways that might be taking things

1417
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:51,799
Speaker 1: away from the marginalized population. We have to think about

1418
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: the outcome of what we think is just a no

1419
01:25:55,960 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: big deal vote in a presidential election. This I we

1420
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 1: and I'm telling this too. I'm speaking very specifically to

1421
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: American white women here. We have a power that is

1422
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 1: unprecedented politically, economically, culturally, and it's important to recognize that

1423
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: power and then to figure out what to do with it.

1424
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 1: And in some cases it means being hyper silent. Right,

1425
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: in some cases it means helping the helpers in being

1426
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 1: in an ally and advocate and activist and accomplice. I

1427
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:33,880
Speaker 1: break those down in the book, the difference between all

1428
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 1: of them, and in some place, in some scenarios, it's

1429
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do with your vote, your money,

1430
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: how you on the question your husband that you share

1431
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:47,759
Speaker 1: the double sin Carrera tiled vanity with on Friday nights,

1432
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 1: and and the jokes that you hear, Oh, you know,

1433
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 1: isn't she hot? Oh that's just men bonding. Well, I

1434
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:57,560
Speaker 1: know appropriate, And so it's our front lines are in

1435
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 1: the room with us, you know, the questions that we have.

1436
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:02,759
Speaker 1: One of the things I often reference as an example

1437
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 1: as being the different behavior that I saw in very liberal,

1438
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: progressive listening circles and very conservative Republican is that in

1439
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 1: some of the more conservative conversations, women would very quickly say, well,

1440
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 1: I have some difficult questions about waste that I don't

1441
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 1: know how to ask, like is a black or African American? Now?

1442
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,719
Speaker 1: You will never hear that question in a progressive listening circle.

1443
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean hours and hours and hours and hours and hours,

1444
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: even if we talk about race, gender, and class, they're

1445
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: still not admitting that they don't know the answer to that.

1446
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 1: And I can tell you with certainty that we that

1447
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 1: there's no clear answer to that very specific question. So

1448
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:43,640
Speaker 1: there's no single person who has that singular answer to

1449
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:47,439
Speaker 1: answer that. So this idea that like being willing to

1450
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 1: ask yourself those honest questions and then going to Google.

1451
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: When I first started this process in educating myself about

1452
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 1: where my biases, where I really relied on my very

1453
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 1: close friends, mostly of color and help educate me, and

1454
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have an application for what that bourbon was

1455
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:05,879
Speaker 1: for them, and I was like, oh, wait a second,

1456
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: I can just go to Google to ask me, you know,

1457
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 1: to ask the question about what's a politically correct term

1458
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 1: here and there. And because there's a tremendous amount of

1459
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: resources and there's a tremendous amount of educators that are

1460
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 1: willing to shoulder the burden of that kind of education. So, um,

1461
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 1: my two readers and listeners, is it feels um so broad,

1462
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: but it is so urgent. The constant questioning of ourself,

1463
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 1: of our history, of our news, of our institutions. Just

1464
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 1: over and if you sit in the position of ever

1465
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 1: wanting to know whether or not unicorns like purple and

1466
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:48,600
Speaker 1: pink and be comfortable in that constant work in progress.

1467
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,519
Speaker 1: We can all push ourselves in the direction we need

1468
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:58,799
Speaker 1: to go. Mm if everyone listening could incorporate something, some change,

1469
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:03,839
Speaker 1: some perspective point uh to consider into their daily life,

1470
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 1: to improve the ways we show up for each other,

1471
01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 1: the ways we help each other, how conscious we are

1472
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:11,840
Speaker 1: of each other's experience? Is there? Is there something that

1473
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 1: jumps out to you. There's a Quaker concept. I was

1474
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 1: raised quaker Ish. Uh. There's a Quaker concept of how

1475
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: we understand any given topic, which is our understanding of

1476
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 1: any subject is incomplete at best, but we should always

1477
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:36,600
Speaker 1: strive for completeness. And sitting in a place of humility

1478
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: and not necessarily having to perform knowing or being an

1479
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:47,040
Speaker 1: expert is a really important position for all of us

1480
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 1: to be in right now. What's happening. There is more

1481
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: segregation in this country arguably than ever before, not just

1482
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 1: from social check anomic and the way that our cities

1483
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:02,360
Speaker 1: are structured, but I geologically right. People are just hanging

1484
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:07,120
Speaker 1: out with people who think just like them, and it's

1485
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:11,679
Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous. And instead of sitting in a place of knowing,

1486
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:17,599
Speaker 1: what if we reverted to the place that found forced

1487
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 1: ourselves to be comfortable in the unknowing, and in that

1488
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 1: unknowing and asking questions about our peers, who are you know,

1489
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,120
Speaker 1: acting in very specific ways that initially we would be

1490
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: completely aligned with. Maybe it's time for us to ask

1491
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 1: whether or not that makes sense. And so I think

1492
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 1: the immediate position is and I hope this is a

1493
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: This is a relief, like I hope I can lift

1494
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 1: something off of your shoulders saying hey, you're never actually

1495
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 1: going to know the answer, so don't try. This isn't

1496
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:55,000
Speaker 1: a cop outleg go watch season two of Tiger Gang,

1497
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: but this is like, hey, you're never gonna know, So

1498
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: stop beating yourself up that you can't say year it out.

1499
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:02,679
Speaker 1: Stop beating yourself up that you don't know the solution

1500
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: of how to solve the education system or Medicare and

1501
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:10,200
Speaker 1: medicaid or Russia China relations, Like, stop eating yourself up

1502
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 1: that you don't know, you don't get it. Just be

1503
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 1: a constant student and ask the harder questions. And oh

1504
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 1: my god, do not vote. Do not vote? Um in

1505
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 1: the you're you have an inherited a voting pattern would

1506
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 1: be in my like desperate play, you have an inherited

1507
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:35,559
Speaker 1: a voting pattern. Yeah God, that doesn't get past with

1508
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:41,719
Speaker 1: the oriental rugs. Yeah no, please God. Um okay, based

1509
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,360
Speaker 1: on the hopefulness that you feel despite the hard things,

1510
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: we need to look at what is your hope for

1511
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:52,439
Speaker 1: or call to action for women in the next election.

1512
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:58,719
Speaker 1: What I know for sure is that this demographic white

1513
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 1: American women in our shopping in a way that they

1514
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:09,719
Speaker 1: haven't been previously, in a way that I wasn't really

1515
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:14,320
Speaker 1: previously either. Um. It's not like when Obama ran for

1516
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 1: his second term that I was really holding his speed

1517
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 1: to the fire, right Like I was just like, yeah, no,

1518
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 1: of course Obama, yes, like back to my life. So

1519
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:25,559
Speaker 1: I can say with certainty that, um, this demographic is

1520
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 1: going to be asking a harder questions of our candidate,

1521
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:34,360
Speaker 1: and my goodness, our candidates need to be put under

1522
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:39,480
Speaker 1: microscope too, and they have opportunities to hold themselves accountable

1523
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: and and raise their hand and acknowledge the things that

1524
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 1: they have and haven't done, um, in ways that can

1525
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: be great role models for how we want society reflected

1526
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 1: in our political systems. Um. And so I I can

1527
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:57,680
Speaker 1: say with certainty that they're shopping, and you should be

1528
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:01,120
Speaker 1: and if you have any level of angst about what

1529
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:04,240
Speaker 1: is happening in the world, not just as it relates

1530
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: to your um six year old or your sixty year

1531
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 1: old parents. Um, the most marginalized are not often protected

1532
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:20,679
Speaker 1: in highly capitalistic systems, and capitalistic systems tend to be

1533
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: protected in the more conservative political parties. M hmm. That

1534
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 1: is me and saying what I'm not saying yet. I

1535
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 1: know every listener knows exactly what I just said, reading

1536
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:37,639
Speaker 1: between the lines of how I hope the listener votes.

1537
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:40,160
Speaker 1: But it's also going to get all of those people

1538
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 1: in your lives that you're like, I don't really feel

1539
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:44,280
Speaker 1: like talking to my father in law or my husband

1540
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: or my boss about this. Like that's the front line, right,

1541
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: Like you gotta have those conversations, as exhausting as they are,

1542
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 1: Like you don't need to talk to Sophia about her

1543
01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 1: political perspectives, but I'll talk about political perspectives of people

1544
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:01,240
Speaker 1: all day because I think to your point, you know,

1545
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 1: I feel like part of my purpose is to help

1546
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,400
Speaker 1: illuminate what we really believe in for each other rather

1547
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 1: than what we've been told to believe. Yeah, my favorite

1548
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 1: question to ask everyone, so you know, that the podcast

1549
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 1: is called, as you mentioned, work in progress, and I'm

1550
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 1: just curious when you hear the phrase, what is something

1551
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 1: in your life, whether it's personal or professional or political,

1552
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 1: that feels like a work in progress for you? Right now?

1553
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:34,559
Speaker 1: I answered this question in a bulleted paragraph. Give me

1554
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: a second to just read what I wrote, because last night,

1555
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:38,760
Speaker 1: when I listened to the opening of your show, I'm like, oh,

1556
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 1: wait a second, here's my work in progress. Let me

1557
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:43,400
Speaker 1: just say I love it. I love that you've made notes.

1558
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: Of course you did. My work in progress is asking

1559
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: myself the challenging questions about how my thoughts and my

1560
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 1: behaviors are preventing the liberation of myself and of the

1561
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: most marginalized. How how I can work to prevent my

1562
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:11,719
Speaker 1: ego and my supremacist tendencies from making decisions or being

1563
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:15,680
Speaker 1: the easiest option for me, whether it's in relationship with

1564
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:19,760
Speaker 1: other people or relationship with um, how I consume on

1565
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:23,400
Speaker 1: behalf of my family, or my relationship with people I

1566
01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:29,640
Speaker 1: disagree with. So this idea of I'm desperate to be

1567
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:35,600
Speaker 1: kinder to myself as it applies to not knowing the

1568
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 1: know and taking that opportunity to break systems that I

1569
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:47,040
Speaker 1: embody in my own psyche, in my own being hard

1570
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:51,759
Speaker 1: on myself, recognizing that that comes from an inherited system

1571
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:56,839
Speaker 1: of patriarchy and white supremacy that came over by Europe,

1572
01:35:56,880 --> 01:36:01,080
Speaker 1: my European ancestors at the blessing of Pope Nicholas the

1573
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 1: Fifth in fifty two that said, go take if you're

1574
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:07,679
Speaker 1: a white and Christian and mail, you're allowed to take

1575
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 1: anything that is not owned the person or land by

1576
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:14,639
Speaker 1: another white and Christian male. You're invincible. You have the right,

1577
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:18,839
Speaker 1: and you're entitled to it all. And I have hundreds

1578
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 1: of years of that behavior that I have to break

1579
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:24,639
Speaker 1: inside of me as it applies to my own personal

1580
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 1: a quiet behaviors, let alone how I'm acting in a

1581
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: public way. M hmm. Well, I'm immensely grateful for that honesty,

1582
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm immensely grateful that you wrote this book

1583
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:39,840
Speaker 1: that can really give us some of that history, some

1584
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,080
Speaker 1: of that data help us look in the mirror in

1585
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 1: ways that feel clarifying and also illuminating as to where

1586
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 1: we go from here. Because to me, I think a

1587
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:55,320
Speaker 1: lot of people ask me when we have conversations like this, well,

1588
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:58,560
Speaker 1: doesn't that feel heavy? No. To me, it feels inspiring

1589
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 1: to me, it feels illuminating to me. The entire point

1590
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 1: of being alive is to learn and dig deeper and

1591
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 1: evolve and grow. And I think that this is really

1592
01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:14,080
Speaker 1: the most important kind of evolution for us as a

1593
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:16,080
Speaker 1: as a society right now. You know, we've got to

1594
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 1: be able to look into our past in order to

1595
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 1: move into a new kind of future. So I'm so

1596
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:23,839
Speaker 1: excited for the book to come out. I'm so excited

1597
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 1: for the listeners to get to read it, and I

1598
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:33,559
Speaker 1: can't wait. This work is liberating for all. This work

1599
01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 1: is liberating for all, and I'm excited to have everybody

1600
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 1: doing it. This show is executive produced by Me, Sophia Bush,

1601
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:51,439
Speaker 1: and sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our

1602
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 1: associate producer is Cate Linley. This episode was edited by

1603
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:58,479
Speaker 1: Matt Sasaki and our music was written by Jack Garrett

1604
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 1: and produced by Mark Foster. The show is brought to

1605
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:02,760
Speaker 1: you by a Brilliant Anatomy