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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we are

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Speaker 1: stoked because it's sixty degrees in Chicago today and honestly,

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Speaker 1: I really don't care if your area has been sixty

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Speaker 1: plus for some time. Now, just let me have this, Okay,

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Speaker 1: It's Friday, April twenty fifth, Happy Friday Slices. On today's show,

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Speaker 1: we'll be talking to attorneys and sports laws specialists Kelly

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Speaker 1: Fagan and Alicia Jessop about the House versus NCAA class

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Speaker 1: action antitrust lawsuit, ways that the suit might impact women's

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Speaker 1: college sports, and how the Trump administration's attack on Title

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Speaker 1: nine could affect payouts to plaintiffs. There is about to

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Speaker 1: be a sea change in women's sports, y'all. This is

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Speaker 1: a must listen to know what's coming down the pike. Plus,

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Speaker 1: the PWHL is back and sprinting towards the playoffs. Simone

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Speaker 1: Biles is a maybe for LA twenty twenty eight, and

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Speaker 1: WNBA draftees face some stiff odds. It's all coming up

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Speaker 1: right after this Welcome back slices, Here's what you need

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Speaker 1: to know today in hockey news. The PWHL picks back

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Speaker 1: up tomorrow after observing an international break for most of April.

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Speaker 1: The Montreal Victoire returns sitting at the top of the table,

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Speaker 1: having already clinched a playoff spot. Meanwhile, last year's champs,

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Speaker 1: the Minnesota Frost are sitting just five points ahead of

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Speaker 1: last place New York. We're firmly in the home stretch

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Speaker 1: of the regular season, which ends on May third, and

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Speaker 1: only the top four teams in the league make the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: Beginning the week of May fifth, there are two games

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Speaker 1: to tune into on Saturday, beginning at twelve Eastern, with

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Speaker 1: Montreal at Ottawa, followed by Toronto at Boston at two

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Speaker 1: pm Eastern. You can catch both those matchups streaming live

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Speaker 1: on the PWHL's YouTube channel, and we'll link to the

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Speaker 1: full league schedule in our show notes. In Soccer News,

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Speaker 1: friend of the Show and former US women's national team

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Speaker 1: player Lauren Holliday and her husband MNBA star Drew Holiday,

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Speaker 1: are now investors in the NWSLS North Carolina Courage. You

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Speaker 1: might remember Lauren was a founding investor in Angel City FC,

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Speaker 1: but she is divested from the club. The Courage announced

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Speaker 1: Lauren and her husband as the newest members of its

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Speaker 1: ownership group on Wednesday, and per the team's release, the

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Speaker 1: former footy star will also assume a role as an

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Speaker 1: advisor and ambassador with the club, directly influencing on field, business,

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Speaker 1: community and player initiative decisions. Now we hear a good game.

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Speaker 1: Love to see that news, in particular because you might

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Speaker 1: recall our November twenty seventh episode Big Meddling Energy with Lauren,

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Speaker 1: in which she talked at length about her desire to

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Speaker 1: be a change maker in the sports ownership space. So

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Speaker 1: kudos to the Holidays for putting their money where their

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Speaker 1: mouths are. Can't wait to see how their financial contribution

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Speaker 1: and Lauren's breadth of experience benefit the club. More soccer.

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Speaker 1: Seven NWSL games to check out this weekend, beginning tonight

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Speaker 1: with the Utah Royals visiting the Houston Dash that's on

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Speaker 1: NWSL Plus. Then we've got angel CITYFC visiting the Orlando

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Speaker 1: Pride on Prime Video. Both those games kick off at

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Speaker 1: eight pm Eastern. We'll link to the full NWSL weekend

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Speaker 1: schedule in our show notes. We've also got Pro Volleyball

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Speaker 1: Federation Action and Women's Elite rugby games going down tonight

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Speaker 1: and over the weekend, so we'll link to those League

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Speaker 1: schedules in our show notes as well, and don't forget

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Speaker 1: the Chevron Championship. The first LPGA major of the year

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Speaker 1: continues today and all weekend. You can watch on the

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Speaker 1: Golf Channel and ESPN Plus to College hoops, where the

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Speaker 1: transfer portal officially closed on Wednesday. Graduate transfers can still

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Speaker 1: enter the portal at any time, but barring a coaching change,

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Speaker 1: anyone else who wants to switch squads will have to

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Speaker 1: sit out a season or apply to the NCAA for

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Speaker 1: a waiver. There's no deadline for players who did enter

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Speaker 1: the portal to commit to a new school, though, so

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Speaker 1: we're still a waiting word on a few players destinations.

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Speaker 1: Some interesting stats per on three dot com. As of

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Speaker 1: Thursday morning, fifteen hundred and fifteen players entered the portal,

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Speaker 1: five hundred seventy two have committed to a new team,

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Speaker 1: and thirty two have withdrawn their names from the portal

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred and fifteen. That's thirty percent of players entering

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Speaker 1: the portal this season. Unreal to Gymnastics News, Simone Biles,

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Speaker 1: the most decorated gymnast of all time, doesn't know yet

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Speaker 1: if she'll compete at the LA twenty twenty eight Olympics.

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Speaker 1: The twenty eight year old told French sports daily lay

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Speaker 1: Keep that she does plan on being present for the games,

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Speaker 1: but she's not sure if she'll be on the mat

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Speaker 1: or cheering in the crowd. At the Paris Olympics, she

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Speaker 1: brought her total metal tally up to seven gold and

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Speaker 1: eleven overall medals, but said afterward her body shut down

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Speaker 1: on her upon returning to the Olympic village in Paris.

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Speaker 1: She totally keep her body quote literally collapsed. I was

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Speaker 1: sick for ten days end quote. For her to compete

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Speaker 1: in La Biles said, quote, it would have to really

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Speaker 1: excite me. Biles also praised fellow international gymnastics superstar Rebecca Andrage,

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Speaker 1: saying that the sport only needs one of them and

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Speaker 1: that the next generation of gymnasts will quote knock at

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Speaker 1: the door and everything will start again. Now. Selfishly, we

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Speaker 1: really hope she wants to compete by the time twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty eight rolls around, but we also wanted to do

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Speaker 1: what's best for her. We're rooting for you either way, Simone. Finally,

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Speaker 1: in Fashion News, tennis superstar Cocoa Goff is teaming up

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Speaker 1: with new Balance and mew Mew on a new collection.

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Speaker 1: She'll wear a different version of the cllab for each

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Speaker 1: upcoming tournament, with unique colourways inspired by each event, and

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Speaker 1: she'll write a different custom co branded version of her

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Speaker 1: signature shoe, the Coco CG two, reimagined by New Balance

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Speaker 1: and Mew Mew. Normies like us can snag the looks

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Speaker 1: beginning in September. Quick shout out to our fearless leader

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Speaker 1: Laura Kurrenti at Deep Blue at the Business of Women's

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Speaker 1: Sports Summit on Tuesday, she teased a return trip to

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Speaker 1: Sport Beach in can and today Deep Blue announced more details.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a three day experience from June

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Speaker 1: sixteenth to eighteenth, called the Deep Blue Women's Sports Yacht Club,

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Speaker 1: supported by Genius Sports and JP Morgan Chase and featuring

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Speaker 1: the Wellness Oasis. It's going to be an immersive beachside experience.

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Speaker 1: Keep leading and we will follow Laura, especially if it's

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Speaker 1: to the French Riviera. We got to take a quick

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Speaker 1: break when we come back. We're talking Legal to you

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Speaker 1: with Kelly Fagan and Alicia Jessop who we caught up

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Speaker 1: with last week. Keep it here joining us now. She's

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Speaker 1: a co founder and chair of the Sports Law practic

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Speaker 1: just at Church, Church, Hittle and Antrim Law. A sports

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Speaker 1: law attorney specializing in the evolving legal landscape of collegiate athletics,

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Speaker 1: including NCAA compliance Title nine issues, hazing, in misconduct, investigations,

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Speaker 1: name image and likeness, and revenue sharing matters. She represents universities, colleges,

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Speaker 1: student athletes, coaches, and administrators. She previously worked in the

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Speaker 1: NCAA's Enforcement Department and graduated summa cum laude from Indiana

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Speaker 1: University and summa cum laude from Indiana University McKinney School

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Speaker 1: of Law. A collegiate golfer before injury sidelined her, It's

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Speaker 1: Kelly Fagan.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Kelly, Hi, Sarah, thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: What was your best club?

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Speaker 2: I was a pretty good putter.

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Speaker 1: Woh's. That's the toughest one in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: And I putt left handed and swing right handed, so

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Speaker 2: a little bit odd.

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Speaker 1: A woman of mystery joining her. She's a sport law

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Speaker 1: professor at Pepperdine and attorney at Daniel, Ebling, Machia and Cohen,

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Speaker 1: representing professional athletes, agencies, broadcasters and startups, and matters including

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Speaker 1: contract negotiation, sports sponsorship negotiation, NILC, contract drafting and review,

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Speaker 1: and more. The host of the Ruling Sports podcast and

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Speaker 1: founder of Ruling Sports, a website examining the success of athletes, executives,

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Speaker 1: and entrepreneurs beyond the game. She's a graduate of the

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Speaker 1: Colorado School of Minds, with her jd from Chapman University

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Speaker 1: Fowler School of Law. She shares my love for Wahiki

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Speaker 1: Island in New Zealand. It's Alicia Jessa Pilishaw.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love that. We could do a whole episode

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Speaker 3: on that.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go just on Mudbrick the most

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Speaker 1: magical place in the world.

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Speaker 3: It is, it really is.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back asap.

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Speaker 2: Maybe.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much to both of you for joining me.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk about this. There is so

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Speaker 1: much to talk about in terms of the changing college

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Speaker 1: sports landscape, and we need experts that know all the

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Speaker 1: nitty gritty who can then dumb it down for us

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Speaker 1: lay people and help us understand. So I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: exactly talk to me like I'm a fifth grader or

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Speaker 1: a five year old, but like some somewhere a little

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Speaker 1: bit above that would be good for all of us.

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Speaker 1: That are just trying to understand all this change in

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Speaker 1: the space. And I want to start with something we've

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Speaker 1: talked about here on the show a few times but

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Speaker 1: not in a lot of detail, and that's House versus

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Speaker 1: nc So, Kelly, can you explain the House versus NCAA case?

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Speaker 1: Who is House, what's at stake, and what's the ultimate ruling?

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Speaker 2: If the settlement is approved, then sort of two big

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Speaker 2: components to it. One is forward looking and one is

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Speaker 2: backward looking. The backward looking component is about two point

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Speaker 2: eight billion dollars in damages that will be paid. It's

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Speaker 2: structured in the settlement as to how it will get

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Speaker 2: paid out, but a majority of it will go to

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Speaker 2: football players over the past from sixteen to twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: and then there will be a percentage for men's basketball,

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Speaker 2: women's basketball, and then all other sports. The forward looking

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Speaker 2: portion of it is injunctive relief that will last ten

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Speaker 2: years and will allow institutions to pay if those institutions

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Speaker 2: that are not parties opt in or the defendant conferences

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Speaker 2: are all automatically opted in, but allow them to pay

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Speaker 2: directly inil payments or revenue share payments to student athletes

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Speaker 2: up to that twenty point five million pool for the

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Speaker 2: first year, and then that will be increased over time

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Speaker 2: as revenues increase.

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Speaker 1: So houses one person, he was a former Arizona State swimmer.

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Speaker 1: He sued the nc DOUBLEA and its power conferences and

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Speaker 1: said that they were violating antitrust laws, that the prevention

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Speaker 1: of nil, name image and likeness was anti competitive, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately it's trying to upend this long held belief that

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Speaker 1: amateurism is what's at the core of NCAA sports. And

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Speaker 1: then once anybody's allowed to get paid, everything falls apart.

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Speaker 1: The only people who can get paid are coaches and

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Speaker 1: administrators and schools and everybody else getting rich. But now

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Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out if college athletes can be

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Speaker 1: directly paid by their schools. And this is an addition

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Speaker 1: and separate from NIL, which is name image, and like this,

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Speaker 1: this is actually a school itself paying its athletes understanding

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Speaker 1: all the revenue that they bring to that school. And

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Speaker 1: like you mentioned, particularly football basketball, we'll get into how

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Speaker 1: it's being doled out, But Alicia, like big picture before

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Speaker 1: we get into the nitty gritty of back pay and

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Speaker 1: roster limits. What are some of the most obvious outcomes

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Speaker 1: of House versus NCAA on women's college sports.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the most obvious outcome is something that

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Speaker 3: you alluded to. The NCAA, founded in nineteen oh six,

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Speaker 3: historically had this amateurism principle where there was a clear

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Speaker 3: demarcation between no compensation to college athletes to very quickly

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Speaker 3: we're zooming into a college sport landscape where the schools

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Speaker 3: are going to directly be paying the college athletes. So

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Speaker 3: as it relates to women's sport in particular, the question becomes,

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Speaker 3: are the schools going to take this opportunity to reshape

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Speaker 3: a landscape that's truly built on fairness, equity and investing

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Speaker 3: in the power and sustainability of women's sports, or are

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Speaker 3: they going to continue the historic practice of underinvesting in

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Speaker 3: women's sports. And how they allocate these revenue share payments

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Speaker 3: so negotiated into the settlement, they're not going to like that.

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Speaker 3: I call it this, but there's a cap. There's a

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Speaker 3: limit on what schools can pay their college athletes. And

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Speaker 3: for the twenty five twenty six school year, it amounts

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Speaker 3: to roughly twenty one million dollars, give or take. And

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Speaker 3: so that twenty one million dollars athletics directors, presidents of universities,

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Speaker 3: and general managers, which we now have in college sports.

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Speaker 3: They need to decide how to divvy up that fund

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Speaker 3: and it will be seen how the money goes to

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Speaker 3: women's for athletes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, my brain is like exploding thinking about

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Speaker 1: all the things that have to be in play, because

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Speaker 1: it's not just men's versus women's athletes. But is it

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Speaker 1: starters versus bench players? Is it? At our school we

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Speaker 1: prioritize football, So if you want to come play here,

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Speaker 1: we're actually gonna have our football players way more than

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Speaker 1: any other school does because they're more carefully allocating it

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Speaker 1: also to basketball and other things. What about schools that

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Speaker 1: don't even have football? That removes hundreds of players to

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Speaker 1: take money, and that means the basketball players would probably

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Speaker 1: get a higher percentage of that twenty one million. So

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Speaker 1: wild wild west, right, because right now, Alicia, they're not

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Speaker 1: dictating how schools can decide to whom they give the money.

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Speaker 3: That's absolutely right, Sarah. So I use this example in

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Speaker 3: class where let's say there's just this phenomenal quarterback and

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Speaker 3: the school believes this quarterback could win a Heisman lead

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Speaker 3: to a national championship, and their's solid research that shows

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Speaker 3: the financial growth that comes to a university when those

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Speaker 3: two things happen. An athlete wins a Heisman a national

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Speaker 3: championship is one. It drives up attendance, it drives up applications,

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Speaker 3: it drives up donorship. So there's a possibility. I don't

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Speaker 3: think this will happen, but there is a possibility where

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Speaker 3: a school could say, you know, we're going to take

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Speaker 3: this entire cap and we're going to allocate it to

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Speaker 3: this one athlete because we believe he or maybe someday

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Speaker 3: she can generate massive revenue growth and a positive ROI.

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Speaker 3: So the settlement it's self doesn't put any quote guardrails, limitations, rules,

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Speaker 3: or structure around how the payments are allocated, which raises

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Speaker 3: some questions in the world of say Title nine, which

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Speaker 3: I think we might discuss absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And also it just fundamentally shifts what we think of

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Speaker 1: college sports being as part of the larger educational and

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Speaker 1: academic experience. It really starts to muddy the water about

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Speaker 1: how these aren't just minor leagues that are operating under

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Speaker 1: the guise of a larger institution, particularly when some of

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Speaker 1: these schools that have massive football programs with waterfalls in

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Speaker 1: their locker room, have parts of their library falling out

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Speaker 1: of the ceiling, and how they're deciding where to put

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Speaker 1: their money and resources. Okay, so let's dig in a

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Speaker 1: little more, Kelly, let's briefly talk about a few specific elements,

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Speaker 1: starting with back pay for past athletes. You mentioned this

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Speaker 1: is the backward looking element. How will that be decided

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Speaker 1: and handed out?

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Speaker 2: So the settlement specifies how that will be paid to

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Speaker 2: those athletes that are in the class. Seventy five percent

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Speaker 2: will go to football, twenty percent will go to men's

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Speaker 2: and women's basketball, and five percent to the remaining sports.

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Speaker 1: And can each school decide that, So, if you have

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Speaker 1: a more successful women's basketball team than men's or if

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Speaker 1: you don't have a certain kind of program, is this

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Speaker 1: backpay being handled the same way? So it's really up

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Speaker 1: to each individual school to decide who gets what.

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Speaker 2: Claimants there's a website they can go to and figure

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Speaker 2: out how much they will get paid. So the settlement

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Speaker 2: determines it, and the institutions are supplying information about who

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Speaker 2: is part of the class and who may be entitled

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Speaker 2: to it, But it does not necessarily depend on your success.

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Speaker 2: It's governed by the settlement and through the claims administrator.

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Speaker 1: So in theory, if you won a national championship, you

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Speaker 1: brought a ton of revenue as a result, you might

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Speaker 1: be paid as someone on a team that had zero wins.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there is an opportunity for the people in

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Speaker 2: the it's in the class to object and say they

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Speaker 2: don't agree, which there have been objections, and they can

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Speaker 2: choose to opt out and try to secure that value

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Speaker 2: that they think they've had they've they've garnered to the

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Speaker 2: school through their performance. But it's definitely that's that's not

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Speaker 2: a smooth of a road. Is I'll just take my

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Speaker 2: money that I'm getting through a class and move on.

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Speaker 1: Goodness, this is messy. This is keeping all you lawyers

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Speaker 1: in business. I'll tell you that there many many hours

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Speaker 1: to be spent on all this. Okay, So for the

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Speaker 1: forward looking and the revenue sharing with current athletes, each

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Speaker 1: school decides which athletes get what is there any sort

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Speaker 1: of calculator on that that they're providing a suggestion or

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Speaker 1: is it literally totally wild wild blasts at each school.

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Speaker 2: It's each school is deciding how they want to do it.

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Speaker 2: Themselves and what their priorities are the gms that we've

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Speaker 2: talked about, you know, are they identifying specific sports, specific athletes.

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Speaker 2: Does each sport have a budget as to what they

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Speaker 2: can spend and how much? But it's certainly, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's certainly going more towards the football, the men's basketball,

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Speaker 2: and then probably women's basketball is the next highest, and

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Speaker 2: then you'll see other you know, there may be volleyball

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Speaker 2: may be a significant score at a school, but it's

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Speaker 2: really yep, it may really come down to it goes

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Speaker 2: back to what Alicia said at the beginning of the

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Speaker 2: investment and the decision to invest and how school each

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Speaker 2: school is treating that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, man, this just feels like so fraught

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Speaker 1: because yes, you already knew if you were a coach

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Speaker 1: at a school if your program wasn't getting the same

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Speaker 1: resources or respect, But to have it put in black

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Speaker 1: and white when there is an opportunity to remedy that

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Speaker 1: where you can't hide behind, well, it'd be really hard.

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Speaker 1: We don't really have the space for a new facility

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Speaker 1: or we're not really in a position right now to

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Speaker 1: give you those resources you're asking for. This is a

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Speaker 1: windfall of money with which they can decide to remedy

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Speaker 1: some of them, and when they don't, it will be

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Speaker 1: a very clear message to presumably coaches of women's teams

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Speaker 1: or Olympic sports, that you don't matter as much and

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Speaker 1: that we will continue to invest in you in a

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Speaker 1: way that reflects whether we're getting back a massive amount

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Speaker 1: of revenue. Does that as of now revenue sharing need

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Speaker 1: to be in compliance with Title nine in any way?

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Speaker 2: I think there's a difference of opinion out there if

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Speaker 2: you talk to legal practitioners, but I think that under

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Speaker 2: Title nine as it was intended and as it has

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Speaker 2: played out in court cases, that money from a school

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Speaker 2: to a student athlete would be considered subject to Title

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Speaker 2: nine and would be need to be proportionately available based

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Speaker 2: on Title nine standards and the undergraduate male female population

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Speaker 2: at the institution. Now, there's probably disagreement out there, and

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Speaker 2: there's definitely I definitely don't believe that that's how it's

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Speaker 2: actually being allocated. But with when the Biden administer issued

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Speaker 2: a fact sheet right before at the end of its term,

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Speaker 2: it essentially said that, and that was rescinded by the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration. So this will ultimately likely be decided by

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Speaker 2: a court at some point as to how it applies.

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Speaker 2: But I believe it does apply based on the Title

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Speaker 2: nine jurisprudence that we have right now.

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Speaker 1: So I want to get to that fact sheet in

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But that was specific to NIL, right,

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Speaker 1: And this is for revenue sharing. So NIL in theory

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Speaker 1: is name, image, and likeness for individual athletes. Revenue sharing

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Speaker 1: is directly from a school, not a third party, to

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Speaker 1: its athletes. So would it be a different argument there

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Speaker 1: than that fact sheet is related to.

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Speaker 2: So there is nil from third parties which would not

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Speaker 2: be subject to Title nine. But a lot of institutions

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Speaker 2: are calling the payments from the institution to the athlete

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Speaker 2: also a licensing pay so they're licensing the right to

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Speaker 2: use their name, image, and likeness. They may also have

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Speaker 2: a revenue share payment as well, or they may have

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Speaker 2: one or the other. So in terms of when you

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Speaker 2: say nil payments, I interpret that is also direct payments

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Speaker 2: from the school to the student athlete.

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Speaker 1: Got it, okay? So house versus NC double A is

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Speaker 1: sort of an extension of nil, but done through the

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Speaker 1: prism of the revenue driven to the school by the

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Speaker 1: athlete participation. Okay. Interesting okay, So Alicia a few more

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Speaker 1: outcomes to consider, like roster limits. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: conversation about how house versus NC DOUBLEA impacts roster limits.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what this is. Can you explain? Okay?

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Speaker 3: So I think we have to understand. What these three

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Speaker 3: cases are alleging is that the NC DOUBLEA is in

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Speaker 3: violation of anti trust law. And I don't want to

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Speaker 3: put all of your listeners to sleep. So here is

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Speaker 3: the easiest way to understand anti trust law. Antitrust law

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Speaker 3: prohibits parties from agreeing to limit output. So we have

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Speaker 3: multiple parties, We have thousands of parties across the NCUBLEA,

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Speaker 3: and what's being alleged in these cases is that as

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Speaker 3: related to nil or as related to how much money

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Speaker 3: college athletes can be paid, they've agreed to limit output.

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Speaker 3: So the NCAA has been sued under antitrust allegations multiple times,

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Speaker 3: but recently since two thousand and eight with the abandoned

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Speaker 3: case over and over and over again. If you remember

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Speaker 3: one thing from the show, it's the last thing you

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Speaker 3: want as a business is to be sued for violating

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Speaker 3: antitrust law, because if you lose, you can face what

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Speaker 3: are called trouble damages, where the court takes the damage's

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Speaker 3: amount and they multiply it by three because they say

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Speaker 3: this so negatively impacts our commercial economy in the United

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Speaker 3: States that we want to stop this behavior. So what's

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Speaker 3: going on in part in the settlement is the NCUBA

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Speaker 3: knows that if it takes these cases to trial and loses,

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Speaker 3: the damages amount could very well be over the four

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Speaker 3: billion dollar amount. So they've negotiated a settlement and in

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Speaker 3: part they're kind of thinking what might be some other

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Speaker 3: problems where somebody can sue us down the road. And

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Speaker 3: right now, the NCAA has very strict limitations on how

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Speaker 3: many scholarships each team can award. So football is a

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Speaker 3: great example. Football currently can only allocate eighty five scholarships.

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Speaker 3: Well if they don't do the roster limits that they're

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Speaker 3: negotiating into this settlement. What you're very really facing down

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Speaker 3: the road is a football player saying, my sport generates

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Speaker 3: the most revenue for the school. I'm talented, I can't

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Speaker 3: have a scholarship because of this arbitrary rule. But the

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Speaker 3: track and field athlete whose sport loses money for this

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Speaker 3: school has a full scholarship. So really, what that portion

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Speaker 3: of the settlement looks to is a in part staving

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Speaker 3: off future antitrust lawsuits. It looks at which sports produce revenue.

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Speaker 3: But and Sarah, this is what I love about your

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Speaker 3: podcast is you talk a lot about the lack of

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Speaker 3: meaningful investiture into women's sports. Well, why are football and

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Speaker 3: basketball so great? Is it because they're superior sports to

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Speaker 3: everyone else and they're just far more paramount than women's golf. No,

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Speaker 3: it's because there's been a historic lack of investiture. And

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Speaker 3: so now because of this new roster limit, what's going

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Speaker 3: to happen, particularly for women's sport athletes, is some of

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Speaker 3: them are going to lose their position on rosters. And

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Speaker 3: that's really an unfortunate result of this settlement.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is something we've talked about with Title nine

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Speaker 1: in the past, and we'll get to the Title nine

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Speaker 1: aspect of that where people claim that men will lose

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Speaker 1: their teams and roster spots when they try to offer

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Speaker 1: the same opportunities to women and girls.

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Speaker 3: Right, if the settlement is approved, and all signs are

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Speaker 3: pointing to the likelihood that the settlement will be approved.

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Speaker 3: If the settlement is approved, then what will come into

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Speaker 3: effect is something called a roster limit. Right now, in

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Speaker 3: April twenty twenty five, what the NCAA has are scholarship limits,

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Speaker 3: and so what this means is Alabama, even if they

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Speaker 3: have a one hundred and five people on a roster,

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Speaker 3: only eighty five of those men can have a full scholarship,

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Speaker 3: and so there's a differential between people on the team

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Speaker 3: and the number of scholarships. What the House Settlement does

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Speaker 3: is it allows the possibility of every person on the

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Speaker 3: roster to be scholarshipped. The problem though, is presently in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, some sports don't have roster limits. So

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Speaker 3: a great example of this is track and field and

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Speaker 3: cross country, where if there are enough talented people they

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Speaker 3: can all show up, they can compete in the sport,

432
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 3: very likely they're not going to receive a scholarship. So

433
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: what's going to come out of the House Settlement is

434
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: the roster size for every sport is going to be set. So,

435
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 3: for instance, tumbling is going to go from like six

436
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 3: scholarships that could be offered for tumbling to a roster

437
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: limit of fourteen. So before I hypothetically could have had

438
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: twenty tumblers but only six scholarships spread across those twenty people,

439
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: where now after the settlement, only fourteen people can be

440
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: on that roster. But the benefit to those fourteen people

441
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 3: is they could all have a full scholarship if the

442
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 3: school wants to do that. So we're creating more scholarships.

443
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: It's a net positive of four hundred and ninety scholarships

444
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: across all of the NCAA sports. The issue though, is

445
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: some people might lose their current non scholar shipped position

446
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: on a roster.

447
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: So the ultimate argument there is that they can be

448
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: sued for anti trust if they don't allow you to

449
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: get a scholarship, but they can't be sued if they

450
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: don't allow you to have a roster spot because there's

451
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: no money involved in that.

452
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: I think that's a decent way to think of it.

453
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: That's why they're being told not to regulate scholarships anymore,

454
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: but they can regulate roster spots.

455
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 3: That's right, Like the anti trust argument is stronger in

456
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: regulating roster spots than regulating the compensation element, which is

457
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: the scholarship.

458
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: All this to say, though, there.

459
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: Still could be legal claims if the roster spots are reduced,

460
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: particularly through the lens of Title nine. So, as we

461
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: always say in college sports, there's going to be lawyers.

462
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

463
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: Another discussed outcome is enhanced oversight of NIL deals. So

464
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: how will NIL coexist with revenue sharing? And I'm of

465
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: course talking about the NIL that isn't from the school itself.

466
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: As part of this house versus ncuble, I'm talking about

467
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: the sort of accepted NIL of outside brands or even

468
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: these boosters that pretend to be separate from the school.

469
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is going to be one of the most

470
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: fascinating parts to watch be executed coming out of this settlement. So,

471
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: as we talked about at the outset, there has been

472
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,479
Speaker 3: this historic belief in the world of college sports of

473
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: the idea of the amateur, that college athletes should pay

474
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: for the love of the game. But another key mission

475
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 3: point of the NCAA was this idea called competitive balance,

476
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 3: where every school should have a fair shot to win,

477
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: and those schools with more financial resources should not be

478
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: able to just spend boatloads of money to build powerhouse rosters.

479
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 3: So something that's been negotiated into this settlement is what's

480
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: called an NIL clearing house. Where a third party is

481
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 3: going to examine college athletes outside nil deals that are

482
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 3: valued over six hundred dollars. So the college athletes will

483
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 3: have to submit their contracts and report these deals to

484
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: their university, which will then submit it to the clearing house,

485
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: and the clearing house will examine the deal to determine

486
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: if the valuation of it aligns with fair market value

487
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 3: for that college athlete's endorsement rights or alternatively, if it

488
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 3: amounts to pay for play. So we're still figuring out

489
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 3: how this is going to be executed. Deloitte has been

490
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 3: secured to run the clearing house. There's a group of

491
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 3: ten division IE Power Conference athletics directors or people in

492
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 3: the athletics department who have formed this like transition committee,

493
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 3: if you will, to determine how this will run. But

494
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 3: this leaves open some ripeness for challenges because how do

495
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 3: you determine fair market value? And in the world of

496
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 3: a college basketball player. Subsequent to the house settlement, there's

497
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 3: an argument that Hayes fair market value might decline because

498
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: in some instances, these people are being paid more from

499
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: the collective today than they will under revenue sharing because

500
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: the revenue sharing plan sets that cap that carries across

501
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: the entire athletics department.

502
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: Okay, this is also making me think of how you

503
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: have a council basically to decide whether you're worth what

504
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: somebody wants to pay you, and particularly in women's sports,

505
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: that is ripe for some pretty serious conversations about what

506
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 1: your value is. I don't know if any of you

507
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: have seen this, but there is a full length episode

508
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: of Inside Amy Schumer called twelve Angry Men Inside Amy Schumer,

509
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: and the concept is an entire episode that's like the

510
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: movie Twelve Angry Men, but instead they're trying to decide

511
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: if she's attractive enough to be allowed to have her

512
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: own show. It is riotously funny and deeply deeply troubling

513
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: because of how realistic it is and how much it

514
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: points to the actual issues. But I'm imagining someone saying, oh,

515
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: Livy Dunne, I mean she's a gymnast, right, she's a

516
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: gymnast at this school. She's not in the Olympics. That's

517
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: way too much money, and then someone else having to

518
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, but she's hot, like literally, that's it.

519
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: And that's what blows my mind is like, how are

520
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: you going to have. Are they going to have different

521
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: expertise in terms of, well, I'm the expert and whether

522
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: someone's hot enough to be paid this, and I'm the

523
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: expert in their gymnastics skill and whether they got enough

524
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: perfect tens Like.

525
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: Sarah, it's wild and listen, I have a lot of

526
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: respect for the NCAA. I love college sports. But here's

527
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: the thing is, we have this committee of ten athletics

528
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 3: directors who work for schools who have historically undervalued in sports,

529
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: and so now they're going to be the arbiters of

530
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: whether this dealer is fair or not. That this portion

531
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: of the settlement will be challenged, like mark my words,

532
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: because what it's doing is it's stimmying free market economics.

533
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: If somebody wants to pay me four million dollars to

534
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 3: promote a product that is that business's choice, we should

535
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: not stimmy the marketplace and slow the flow of opportunity.

536
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: That's what antitrust lass serves to protect against. And so

537
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: that this portion of the settlement frankly, is walking the

538
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: Association and its member institutions right back into another anti

539
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: trust suit.

540
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: Agreed. And yet also it does make sense that you

541
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: have to figure out how to regulate whether those payments

542
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: are just paid to play and someone funneling money to

543
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: somewhere that then says, oh, no, this was because we

544
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: really liked him and think he's very charismatic.

545
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: Right.

546
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: Here's what you've got to ask, though, is are those

547
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 3: type of deals really going to get reported? So we

548
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: assume that everyone is going to report their six hundred

549
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: dollars plus deals to the clearing house, the reality of

550
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 3: the situation is this underworld economy has existed in college

551
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: sports for decades where money has been funneled to top athletes,

552
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: and to think that this clear house is going to

553
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: eliminate that if there is pay for play taking place,

554
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: the reality of the situation is is that payment's not

555
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: going to get funneled through the NIL clearing house.

556
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and we'll just go back to the old

557
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: system where everything's under the table. Kelly, you mentioned under

558
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: President Biden the Department of Educational least a fact sheet

559
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: there was guidance on Educational Institutions Title nine obligations when

560
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: it comes to NIL and from the fact sheet quote,

561
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: the fact that funds are provided by a private source

562
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: does not relieve a school of its responsibility to treat

563
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 1: all of its student athletes in a non discriminatory manner.

564
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: It is possible that NIL agreements between student athletes and

565
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: third parties will create similar disparities and therefore trigger as

566
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: schools Title nine obligations. Then when the Trump administration took over,

567
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: they were scinded that guidance. So under what laws or

568
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: expectations are institutions currently operating when it comes to NIL

569
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: and Title nine?

570
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: So Title nine still is still a law despite the

571
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: fact sheet being rescinded. It's still good law, and there's

572
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: still litigation going on, and there's still a Department of

573
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: Education at least right now and an Office of Civil

574
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: Rights that it continues to do the work that they've

575
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,479
Speaker 2: always done and obviously looks a little bit different with

576
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. But what you quoted from the fact

577
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: sheet that has always been part of Title nine. And

578
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: whether you're a high school or you're a college, if

579
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 2: you get a donation from a donor that says I

580
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: want this to go to a video room for a

581
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: men's basketball program, that's fine. You can have a video

582
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: room for a men's basketball program, but that does not

583
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: then give you the permission to discriminate against women and

584
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: so you still have to treat the women's sports and

585
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: an equal way as you do the men's sports, and

586
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: under the treatment areas of Title nine.

587
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean you have to give them their

588
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: own video room, but you do have to account for

589
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: the fact that the video room exists when you eventually

590
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: try to look at the equity and equality between programs.

591
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: Right, So there's under Title nine, there's three main areas

592
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: that from athletic athletics standpoint, there's your participation opportunities, and

593
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: you'll hear about three prongs and there's three different ways

594
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: you can try to comply. There's financial assistance, which is

595
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: where some of these payments come in. And then there's

596
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: treatment areas the laundry list of treatment areas, facilities, access

597
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: to tutors, medical treatment, travel. So in those treatment areas,

598
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: will Office of Civil Rights come in and say, simply

599
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: because you have a video room for the men's team

600
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: and not one for the women's team, is that in

601
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: and of itself a violation. No, but they'll do a

602
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: holistic review and if you can't otherwise demonstrate an offset

603
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: of something that women's team may be getting of a

604
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: similar size, then it could be a violation. The factory

605
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 2: didn't go so far as to say that all third

606
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 2: party payments. If a payment is directly from a third

607
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 2: party to an athlete versus funneling from the institution, then

608
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: that may be a different scrutiny. Title nine may not

609
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: apply if it's a true third party deal. But we

610
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: have all these collectives that are all very closely associated

611
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: with a particular institution, and under Title nine, there's a

612
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: concept called significant assistance, and significant there's factors that.

613
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: Are looked at.

614
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: Not yet two legal least, but significant assistance is not

615
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: a high bar to get passed, and I think most

616
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: of these collectives would trigger that, and so institutions could

617
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: potentially be those payments from collectives could potentially be something

618
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: that does become a subject to Title nine. That's one

619
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: of the issues that's likely going to be litigated in

620
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: a court somewhere will decide that.

621
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: So essentially it's similar to everything else under Title nine,

622
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: which is most people are probably not in compliance, but

623
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: unless you sue or threaten to sue, there probably won't

624
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: be someone intervening. It's just ratcheted up for this new

625
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: era because in part Title nine, when it was originally

626
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: written was, first of all, an education law that just

627
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: had an outsized impact on sports, but also didn't have

628
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: specific language for things like revenue sharing or nil because

629
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: they didn't exist. So those who want to move forward

630
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: ignoring Title nine can simply argue that that language isn't

631
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: part of it specifically, and those that want to argue

632
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: that they should abide by it can say, it's the

633
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: spirit of the law that would tell you that you

634
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: do need to continue to abide by it. Okay, so

635
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: you talked about the Department of Education. All of this

636
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: presumes that Title nine still exists, and I wonder, given

637
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: the threat to the Department of Education, which oversees Title

638
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: nind can Title nine exist without a Department of Education?

639
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: Kelly, Yes, it is still a federal law. It has

640
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: not it would if a Department of Education no longer existed.

641
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: It's possible the enforcement of that would get shifted to

642
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: the Department of Justice or a different federal agency. But

643
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: the existence of a law is different than the enforcement

644
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: of it if it's not being enforced, if there's not

645
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 2: an I hope that for institutions there is an incentive

646
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 2: to comply, even if their federal funding is not at stake,

647
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: but that's simply not always the case, and it's a

648
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: it's a risk analysis as to if we don't comply,

649
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: what's the potential outcome, what are the risks and the

650
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: benefits to us? So it would exist. But the tea

651
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: that does not, though, preclude somebody from pursuing litigation where

652
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: you do not have to go through OCR or the

653
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: Department of Education in order to make a claim that

654
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: you're or Title nine rights have been violated against an institution. Right.

655
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: You talk about compliance too, So in the past, maybe

656
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: we would presume that a school not complying to allow

657
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: equal opportunity for its female athletes would be one that

658
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: the government might be eyeing up. But now it almost

659
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: feels like if a school chose to abide by the

660
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: Biden administration guidance in opposition to what the Trump administration

661
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: has said they would like to see happen, that they

662
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: might be at risk of Trump saying we're pulling your funds.

663
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: We don't like that you're treating women a certain way

664
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: based on something that the people before us thought was right. Uh, okay,

665
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: what are likely immediate impacts if the DOE the Department

666
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: of Education is gone? How would that immediate. Would it

667
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: be harder to try to file a lawsuit or fight

668
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't know who technically is the teeth of

669
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: the law anymore?

670
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: Kelly, No, if today, well, if I had standing to sue,

671
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: if I was an athlete at a school that I

672
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: thought I was being discriminated against under Title nine, I

673
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 2: can file a lawsuit against them in the court that

674
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 2: has jurisdiction over them. I do not have to involve

675
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: the Department of Education in that, So that will not

676
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 2: change the access to courts. Obviously, a court process takes

677
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 2: a lot longer. Sometimes the Department of Education OCR process

678
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: can take a while, but going through court can obviously

679
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: take a lot longer. To see that change. There is

680
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 2: there is a case, the Schroeder versus University of Oregon

681
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: case which has been UH is already been filed, and

682
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: this makes claims not directly about NIL, but within those

683
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: treatment areas that we talked about that from a public

684
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: one of the treatment aarias is publicity, and that women

685
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: have been discriminated against on the beach volleyball and rowing

686
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: programs at Oregon because of the disparate treatment in terms

687
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 2: of NIL. So we may see something dispositive come out

688
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: on that or something instructive as that case plays out.

689
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: But it's been going on for a bit and is

690
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: still occurring, so again, it won't be a fast change, Okay, Alicia.

691
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: This year we finally saw women's college basketball conferences get

692
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: financial units. This is payouts for their teams appearing and

693
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: advancing in the NCAA tournament. For years, men's have gotten it.

694
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: It's a percentage of the television revenue made by the tournament.

695
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: It's a lesser number for the women, but we're glad

696
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: they're finally getting something. This helps schools be motivated to

697
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: invest in their women's programs and see them succeed. What's

698
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: the next financial unit's fight? Is there something that the

699
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: men get? I mean that Pandora's box, But is there

700
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: something specific that the men that NCAA women athletes, teams

701
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: or tournaments have historically been denied that should be addressed

702
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: or people are in the process of starting to address.

703
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 3: I don't know about being in the process to start

704
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: to address, but the units are certainly a great move.

705
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 3: For the reason you said, we're increasingly seeing athletics departments

706
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: strategize around men's basketball because they realize that even with

707
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: the expanded college football playoff, the pathways to revenue are

708
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: pretty set for football, and so schools, especially with these

709
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: increased payments being created through the House settlement, they need

710
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 3: to find more money, and so they're kind of strategizing

711
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: around men's basketball and aligning themselves in conferences that will

712
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: allow them to gain greater men's basketball units. So the

713
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: beauty now of women's basketball offering units. Hypothetically that same

714
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: mindset or strategizing should trickle down or over to women's basketball.

715
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,959
Speaker 3: The thing that I think needs to happen in order

716
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 3: to put women's basketball on the same stature of men's

717
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: basketball is you have to pull women's basketball out of

718
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 3: the television contract negotiation with the rest of the sports.

719
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 3: And I understand the association's position of they were trying

720
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 3: to gain leverage, but I think that's the next big

721
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 3: story to watch in terms of creating greater revenue for

722
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: women's basketball in and of itself. That doesn't address the

723
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 3: other women's sports in college sports, But we'll start with

724
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 3: basketball and we'll move from there.

725
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those who don't remember when they had an

726
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: independent investigation of the inequities between women's and men's basketball.

727
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: A few years ago. They ultimately found that there was

728
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: a massive valuation for the women's basketball tournament. But because

729
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: the rights for the women's championships, every one of them

730
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: was wrapped into a TV rights package for every championship

731
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: outside of men's basketball and college football, that essentially meant

732
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: that it was kind of just bunched in. And because

733
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: TBS owned the rights of the men's basketball, the money

734
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: that came from those rights packages actually could always be

735
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: calculated and written down as revenue for men's basketball. So

736
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: it also allowed people to argue that the women's basketball

737
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: tournament was a money loser even as they sold out

738
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: sponsorships every single year and it grew and grew and grew,

739
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: and this independent investigation said, no, actually, it's worth like

740
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: eighty million a year and will be one hundred and

741
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: twenty million a year in coming years. But to your point,

742
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: they are still doing those television packages for more money now.

743
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: They materially renegotiated for the first time in a long time,

744
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: but the amount of money now is still combining everyone

745
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: together instead of allowing them to have their own separate negotiation.

746
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: Right would completely change the financial and economic opportunity there absolutely, Okay,

747
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: I think people have learned enough, even though there's so

748
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: much more to learn before I let you go. Are

749
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: there any other items on the horizon that we should

750
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: be watching for that might have an outsized impact on

751
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: women's college sports that we haven't talked about, Alicia, I.

752
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: Think watching how the revenue share contracts go is really

753
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: the growing story under the bedrock. I've had the opportunity

754
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: to work with a number of college athletes to negotiate

755
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 3: or hammer out these revenue share contracts, and it's a

756
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: wild experience, Sarah, because since they're limited to this cap

757
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 3: across all sports, the number changes as you're going through

758
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: the negotiation day to day. So you can start the

759
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: negotiation and the number is x, but if a player

760
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: signs and that player's lawyer or council negotiated up, your

761
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: number might go down. And so I think a story

762
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 3: to watch is just what kind of council and what

763
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 3: kind of advising do athletes gain access to? Because to

764
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: your point earlier, this is a whole new world where

765
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: now you know, coaches arguably were on and opposing side

766
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 3: to athletes and recruiting, but they were more on the

767
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 3: same side. These are opposing legal strategies when we're talking

768
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: about a revenue share contract, and so looking at how

769
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 3: women are educated on that matter, looking at the representation

770
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: that comes to help them, I think will be a

771
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: critical job uncture for the growth of women's sports.

772
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: Okay, quick follow up on that. So you're saying that

773
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: when an athlete is coming into a school, they are

774
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: in advance negotiating the amount of the twenty million per

775
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 1: year revenue that they will receive. So essentially, now, these

776
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: collegiate rosters are sort of like salary capped professional sports

777
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: where if you tell the football team you have x

778
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: amount of this twenty million, they have to figure out

779
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: how to slot the players that they're signing. Oh my gosh.

780
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: But then do they have to essentially negotiate with incoming

781
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: players on a one year basis as opposed to their

782
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: four years at the school because they can't then account

783
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: for future changes.

784
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 3: Well, and the number is going to comes to art Yeah,

785
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 3: because it's twenty two percent of the average revenue of

786
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: the Power Conference schools, and so if they make more

787
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 3: money than not, it's it's wild.

788
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, he's so exhausting for me. I'm

789
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: so glad I'm not a lawyer. My parents are both lawyers.

790
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: There was a lot of a push for that. Thank

791
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: god I did do it. Okay, Kelly, what about you?

792
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: Anything else we should be watching for?

793
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: I think, you know, one of the best ways to

794
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: make change and ensure that we continue to invest in

795
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: women's sports is having women leaders in these significant athletic departments.

796
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: The power five, A five day, four, whatever number you

797
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: want to use at this point, but you know, I

798
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: think if there are women that are leading some of

799
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: these programs, then change can be enacted. And at the

800
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: commissioner level of this, you know, the major conferences in

801
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: the mid majors, I think watching how we see if

802
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: we see more women in those leadership roles, I think

803
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: will be very important for women's sports in college moving forward.

804
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: Well, you both gave me so many answers, and yet

805
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: I believe I have more questions than answers at this

806
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: point because it's just such a new space. But this

807
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: was extremely helpful. I know so much more than before.

808
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us.

809
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you.

810
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Kelly and Alicia for joining us.

811
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: Also want to give you a quick update regarding the

812
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: House versus NCAA case, So a federal judge issued a

813
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: fourteen day deadline on Wednesday for the defendants to come

814
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: to an agreement on how to implement roster sized limits

815
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: or they'll risk the rejection of the settlement. So we'll

816
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: be keeping our eyes on it the next couple weeks

817
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: and let you know how things unfold. We have to

818
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: take another break when we come back, the annual heartbreak.

819
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: WNBA fans and players are never quite prepared for welcome

820
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: back slices. It's time for another what the fact? Okay,

821
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: So the WNBA season is rapidly approaching and the WNBA

822
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: Draft took place last Monday. Page Beckers selected number one

823
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: overall by the Dallas Wings, and of course we are

824
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: super excited to watch her game grow this summer. But

825
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: what about the players who went later in the first round?

826
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: What about the second and third rounders, the players who

827
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: are walking into training camps with teams that already have

828
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: the pieces they need. Unfortunately, many of the college hoopers

829
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: who get drafted don't make a team roster, and it's

830
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: an annual heartbreaker for fans and players alike, no matter

831
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: how many times were warned it might happen. For example,

832
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: of the thirty six players drafted last year, only fifteen

833
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: played in at least one game. One year earlier, just

834
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: nineteen of sixteen made it to game day. And it's

835
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: been this way for a long time. Per analysis from

836
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: the Associated Press, between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty three,

837
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: just sixty five percent of draftees have played in a

838
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: single WNBA game. So what, Gibbs. Why is the WNBA

839
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: the hardest league in the US to make well? First

840
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 1: of all, WNBA rosters are small. Each team can include

841
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: up to twelve players, but the reality is that most

842
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: teams carry just eleven due to salary cap constraints. In comparison,

843
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: MNBA rosters can include fifteen players plus three players on

844
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: two way contracts. Those are players who are allowed to

845
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: go back and forth between the G League and the MNBA.

846
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: Now there is a bright spot here. The w is

847
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: actively expanding, which means that the number of roster spots

848
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: available to draftees is increasing. With the addition of the

849
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: Golden State Valkyries this upcoming season, there are one hundred

850
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: and fifty six total roster spots in the league, and

851
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: after the Toronto Tempo become draft eligible in twenty twenty six,

852
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: that total will bump up to one sixty eight. Hopefully

853
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: that'll mean more rookies end up in the mix for

854
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: the long haul, for both the good of the game

855
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: and the sanity of the fans who follow these supers

856
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: to the pros from college. This what the fact brought

857
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: to you by Elf Beauty. And here's another fact. Companies

858
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,759
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859
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: of its success to its diverse board seventy eight percent

860
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: women and forty four percent diverse, and because of that diversity,

861
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 1: Elf has delivered twenty four consecutive quarters of sales growth,

862
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: the only cosmetics brand to grow market share every single quarter.

863
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: Elf is about including everyone, because when you do, everyone wins.

864
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: Learn more about what Elf Beauty is doing to help

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Speaker 1: diversify corporate boards, visit changethboardgame dot com. We always love

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00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: to hear from you slices, so hit us up on email.

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Speaker 1: Good game at wondermedianetwork dot com, and don't forget to subscribe,

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00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: rate and review. It's real easy. Watch Wnba Hooper Temmy

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Speaker 1: Fagbenley in the Children of Blood and Bone movie rating

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00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: five out of five. What Can't She Do? Review Now

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Speaker 1: producer Mesh says, I've been living in a hole because

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Speaker 1: I haven't read the New York Times bestselling novel Children

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Speaker 1: of Blood and Bone, part of author Tomy et Eemi's

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Speaker 1: Legacy of Arisha's series. It's one of their faves, packed

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00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: from top to tail with action and adventure set in

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00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: a fictional West African kingdom where magic and danger coexist,

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00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: and Mish obviously isn't the only superfan because the novel

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00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: is being adapted into a film directed by Gina Prince Bythewood,

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00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: the woman who directed Love and Basketball and The Woman King.

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00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: Film is set to release in early twenty twenty seven.

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00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: And WNBA Golden State Valkyries forward Temmy fag Benley is

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00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: a member of the cast. Hooper and actress a true

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Speaker 1: renaissance woman, and she'll be acting alongside some serious legends

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Speaker 1: Biola Davis, Cynthia Arrivo, Idris Elba, Regina King and Moore.

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00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: No word yet on what character she's going to play,

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00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: but we know she's going to knock it out of

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Speaker 1: the park and arguably the coolest part book author at

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00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: Aemi and Hooper fag Benley were classmates back at Harvard University.

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00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: Small world, and as Fag Benley put it, full circle,

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Speaker 1: We'll link to our Instagram post about the film and

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Speaker 1: our show notes, and we'll add the book to our

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Speaker 1: Good Game book club and my ever expanding stack of

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Speaker 1: to read when I get a damn vacation books. Now

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Speaker 1: it's your turn, y'all, rate and review. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: See you next week when we celebrate our two hundredth episode,

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00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: Good Game, Kelly, Good Game, Alicia, you aforementioned stack of books,

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Speaker 1: stop taunting me. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an

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Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports

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Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by

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Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.

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Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,

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00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,

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Speaker 1: and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and

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Speaker 1: I'm your host Sarah Spain