1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: There are more questions than answers about the firing of 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Burman from his post as the U S. Attorney 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: for the Southern District of New York, perhaps the country's 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: most elite and storied law enforcement office. Why was Berman, 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: a Republican who served on Trump's transition team, fired? Why 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: did Attorney General Bill Barr announced after nine pm on 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: a Friday that Berman had resigned, only to be contradicted 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: by Berman a few hours later. And are their current 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: investigations in the Southern District which Bar or Trump find troubling. 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: My guest is former federal Prosecutor Robert Mints, a partner 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: McCarter and English. So, Bob, the president has the power 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: to fire U S attorneys. What did bar do wrong here? 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: If anything? Well, for someone as seasoned and experienced as 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: Attorney General Bar, this is really a stunning scailure To 16 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: appreciate the optics and the reaction that this kind of 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: announcement would generate late on a Friday night. Uh, It's 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: really sort of inexplicable because what unfolded over twenty one 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: hours was an announcement by the Attorney General that the 20 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: current U s Attorney for the Southern District of New York, 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Burman, was stepping down, followed two hours later by 22 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: Mr Burman issuing a statement contradicting the Attorney General, the 23 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: man who is technically his boss, saying that he had 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: not resigned and had no intention of resigning. And then 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: that's spilled over into Saturday afternoons where the Attorney General 26 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: basically castigated Mr Burman publicly saying that he had chosen 27 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: public spectacle over public service because he had not followed 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: the Attorney General's requested he stepped down, and then as 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: a result, the Attorney General had asked the President to 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: remove him, which, according to the Attorney General, the President 31 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: had done. And at that point we were cheat up 32 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: for this potential legal battle between Mr Burman and the 33 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: Department of Justice as to who actually was in charge 34 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: of the Southern District of New York. We don't know 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: what the real reasons are behind this, but we do 36 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: know that bar offered Burman other positions within the Justice Department. 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: What does that indicate to you, Well, that's one of 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: the things that's so baffling here is we know that 39 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: there was a conversation between Mr Burman and Mr Barr 40 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: on Friday, and apparently they each came away from that 41 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: conversation with differing understandings as to what had transpired. Ultimately, 42 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: Mr Barr gave no reason for out seeing Mr Burman. 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: In fact, he issued a statement praising him. It appears 44 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: that they offered Mr Burman a couple of other positions 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: within Department Justice that he was not interested in taking. 46 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: So we really don't know exactly what touched off this 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: confrontation between the powerful position of the U. S. Attorney 48 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: for the Southern District of New York and the Attorney General. 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: What we do know is that Mr Burman really doug 50 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: his heels and in a very surprising and unprecedented way 51 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: refusing to follow the request of the Attorney General to 52 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: step down, and ultimately Mr Barr had to go to 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: the President and asked him to remove Mr Berman, which 54 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: apparently is what was done here. And one of the 55 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: things that's interesting to hear about the unique situation that 56 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: Mr Berman found himself in is that he was never 57 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: actually appointed by President Trump the Phillis position in the 58 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: first place. He was placed in that position in January 59 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: by then Attorney General Jeff Session. He was in that 60 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: position for a period of time until the Judges of 61 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: the Southern District appointed him to that position after he 62 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: had already spent a hundred twenty days in the position 63 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: that was appointed by the Attorney General. That position is 64 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: only a hundred twenty days long, and thereafter the judges 65 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: of the Southern District would step in and appoint the U. S. 66 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: Attorney And that's exactly what happened here. So technically Mr 67 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: Berman was an appointee of the Judges of the Southern 68 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: District and not the President. And that's exactly what he 69 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: said when he issued a statement refusing to step down. 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: We have heard time and time again about the independence 71 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: of the Southern District, where they referred to it as 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: the sovereign district. But does this show that there's only 73 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: so much independence to be had because they have to 74 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: answer to the Justice Department in the Attorney General. Yes, 75 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's ultimately where this would have headed. 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: For a few minutes, there was going to be a 77 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: possibility that there would be the standoff between Mr Burman 78 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: and the Attorney General, and ultimately that could have ended 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: up in court where a court would have to look 80 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: at these two potentially conflicting statutes. One which said that 81 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: a court appointed U. S. Attorney, which is what Mr 82 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: Burman was, serves in that position until the vacancy is filled, 83 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: which means until another U. S. Attorney is nominated by 84 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: the President and approved with the consent of the Senate. 85 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: That was the position Mr Burman took an initially. On 86 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: the other hand, there's another statute that says that the 87 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: United States Attorneys are appointed for for year terms and 88 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: that the President retains the authority to remove the United 89 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: States attorney. That is probably the position that would ultimately 90 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: prevail here. I think ultimately the courts would have that 91 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: the President does have the authority to remove the U. S. Attorneys, 92 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: and that's where this was headed. Initially, the position that 93 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: the Attorney General took here was that Mr Burman was 94 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: gonna step down and he's gonna be replaced on an 95 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: acting basis by Craig Carponeto, who is the current U. S. 96 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: Attorney in the District of New Jersey. For whatever reason, 97 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: that did not sit well with Mr Berman, and he 98 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: dug his heels in refusing to leave. Mr Barr then 99 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: changed his position and said that the Deputy U. S. Attorney, 100 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: the number two person in Mr Berman's office, who is 101 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: currently Audrey Strauss, would take over when Mr Burman left, 102 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: and that was enough to statisfy Mr Burmant to agree 103 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: to step down. So at this point Mr Burman has 104 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: resigned and the current acting was Attorney for the Southern 105 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: District of New York is Faundry Straught. Berman had signaled 106 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: that he wanted to fight to keep his position to 107 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: protect sensitive investigations being run in the Southern District. What 108 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: are some of those investigations and is there anything recently 109 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: that would have all of a sudden made this an 110 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: issue for the Attorney General. Well, that was one of 111 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: the puzzling parts of this whole saga was that not 112 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: only was the U. S. Attorney in the Southern District 113 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: of New York, a very powerful position among US attorneys 114 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: in the country, refusing to step down, but in his 115 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: statement he made reference to the investigations continuing to move 116 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: forward without delay or interruption, and that they intend to 117 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: ensure that this office is important cases continue unimpeded. So 118 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: he made this reference to these investigations suggesting or at 119 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: least inferring in some way that his removal was perhaps 120 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: tied to somebody ongoing into investigations in his office. That 121 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: prompted a response from the Attorney General saying that the 122 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: decision to remove him had nothing to do with the 123 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: investigations that are currently underway in the Southern District, and 124 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: Mr Barr even went so far as to say that 125 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: if there's any question about any interference by Mean Justice 126 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: into these investigations, that any supervisor in the Southern District 127 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: could raise that issue directly with the Deprimative Justices Inspector General. 128 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: So there was this undercurrent going back and forth between 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: the motive behind this removal, with Mr Berman suggesting but 130 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: not coming outright and saying it that his removal had 131 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: something to do with some of these ongoing investigations. Well, 132 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: you have the investigation into Rudy Giuliani and his associates, 133 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: into Deutsche Bank and into Turkey's state owned bank, So 134 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: several investigations with ties to the president. Yeah. So not 135 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: only is the Southern District viewed as a very powerful 136 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: office because of its location in New York and its 137 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: regulation of Wall Street, but it also was the office 138 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: that was leading investigations that were in some way connected 139 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: to the president. As you say, there were prosecutions of 140 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: some of the people associated with Rudy Giuliani for potential 141 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: campaign finance violations. There was the well known and very 142 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: high profile prosecution of Michael Kohen, the President's former attorney, 143 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: and there is an ongoing investigation apparently into Rudy Giuliani 144 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: and efforts to perhaps secture some political information in Ukraine 145 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: related to the President's current political rival, Joe Biden. So 146 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: all of that raised the profile of the Southern District 147 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: even higher than it typically would be because these investigations 148 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: were being run in a way that certainly from all 149 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: outward appearances, seemed to be unimpeded by any interference from 150 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: main Justice, and that they these investigations were touching upon 151 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: the President and his ociates. That's why this move E. G. 152 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: Bar is really so surprising, because it really opens up 153 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: Mr Barr to criticism that the cause of these politically 154 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: sensitive investigations and because of the way that Mr Berman 155 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: had been running the office, that his removal in some 156 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: way was tied to that. That's something that Mr Berman 157 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: has not said directly and There's been nothing in the 158 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: record to suggest that that was what motivated Mr Barr, 159 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: but certainly the fact that he was not sensitive to 160 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: the too that the impact that this removal would have 161 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: on the huge uproar that was created as a result 162 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: of this firing on Saturday morning, shows that there's some 163 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: disconnect here between Mr Barr and Mr Berman, and Mr 164 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: Barr's appreciation for how this decision would be received by 165 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: former assistance in the Southern District and by the public 166 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: in general. There's also a parallel in that Bar fired 167 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: the U S Attorney for d C, another very powerful office. 168 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: He fired the U S Attorney for d C, and 169 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: after that we saw cases the Attorney General appeared to 170 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: take a personal interest in, including that of Michael Flynn, 171 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: where he said that they were dropping the charges against 172 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: Michael Flynn after guilty. Please. Yeah, that's exactly the speculation 173 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: that this move has created. Uh. It really is, in 174 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: my view, somewhat of a self inflicted wound because it 175 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: didn't have to happen. We're close to an election as 176 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: it is right now, and at the end of the day, 177 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: one of the ironies is about all this is that 178 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: the person who is now taking over the Southern District 179 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: is Audrey Strauss, who was a longtime friend and colleague 180 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: of Mr Berman's. He was she was hand picked by 181 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: Mr Berman to come out of retirement. She had been 182 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: a assistant in the Southern District for about seven years 183 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: and then spent thirty years as a well known and 184 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: well respected white collar criminal defense lawyer. She's somebody who 185 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: was viewed universally as a very competent, very fair, very 186 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: deliberate prosecutor. She was the prosecutor who actually was handling 187 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: the Michael Khne investigation by the Southern Districts because Mr 188 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: Berman had recused himself from that case. So while this 189 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: has been disruptive and has raised concerns among many people, 190 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: ultimately the decision to replace Mr Burman with Audrey Strauss 191 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: has left most of Mr Barr's critics feeling that the 192 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: Southern District remains in good hands and is going to 193 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: be led by someone who will continue to exercise a 194 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,239 Speaker 1: degree of independence from main justice and from any potential 195 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: interference by the Attorney General or others in the office. 196 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: Doesn't this echo the situation when Free Berrara at first 197 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: refused to step down when President Trump fired him after 198 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: hiring him again. Well, there has been situations in the 199 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: PA asked where there's some controversy about firings of u 200 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: S attorneys. U S attorneys generally speaking, are appointed by 201 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: the president. They serve four year terms and then then 202 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: stay on at the pleasure of the president. So when 203 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: there's a change in administration, it's fairly typical for the 204 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: new Attorney General to ask for the resignation of all 205 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: of the U S attorneys around the country. And most 206 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: of the time these U S attorneys are replaced, if 207 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: not immediately, then within a year or so after a 208 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: new administration comes in. So we do see this change 209 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: in position at u S attorneys around the country. If 210 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: you remember back in two thousand and seven, there was 211 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: a bit of a controversy during during the Bush administration 212 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: when they fired seven United States attorneys, claiming that the 213 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: u S attorneys were removed for performance related reasons. That 214 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: raised questions in the minds of some people, And in fact, 215 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: the law was changed at that time to give judges 216 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: in the districts authority to appoint the U S attorneys 217 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: for some period of time when there's a vacancy. That's 218 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: why we have a situation where Mr Berman was in 219 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: fact never appointed by the President, never was appointed by 220 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: the Senate by advice and consent, but in fact had 221 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: been serving all this time in the position where he 222 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: had been appointed by the judges of the Southern District. 223 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: Thanks for being on Bloomberg law, Bob, that's Robert Mant's 224 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: Apart of McCarter and English, I'm joom Brasso and this 225 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg