1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people, get cool stuff. My 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: name is Margaret Kiljoy. And I will not continue the 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: bit where I set up the expectation that I will 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: tell a new joke eating introduction, because if I do, 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: my life get so much worse. And I don't jokes. 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: So if you got joke, shine anyone, Shine is like 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: the funniest person right now to pay no pressure. I 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: don't know if I have a joke right now. A 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: lot of my jokes are like annoyingly visual. Um, Like 10 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: my go to is like the daddy is joke, not 11 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: daddy is you? Like daddy joke is very different than joke. 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: But let me think. I mean I was inslated so 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: you can use irrigination. But basically, you put your hand 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: up as like a little cut, like you're making your 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: hand into a U shape, uh, and you ask people 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: what is that? What is this? And they're like, what 17 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: are you doing? You're a weirdo. And then you put 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: your upper forearm from the other arm on it and 19 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: you're like, it's a gun. Rack. I love that joke 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: because muscles are guns. I think it's funny because that's 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: the only gun that I approve of. Everybody who's there? 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: Beats me? Okay, Sophie, Okay, I got a knock knock joke. 23 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: You start knock knock, who's there? I don't know this 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: is your That's the point of the joke. I'm like, 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, this is your bit Like you know, 26 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: I got nothing. Okay. My guest today is Sharne Shrine. 27 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: How are you doing today? I'm I'm good. I'm good. 28 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: I actually I'm excited about the continuation of the story 29 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: because you've definitely got me intrigued. Uh and not much 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: can do that these days. So hell yeah, Cliffhangers for 31 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: the wind. Yes, Sophie is our producer. Hi, Sophie him Margaret, Hi, 32 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: I like this little trio. I like and Ian as 33 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: our editor. He's in charge of editing. Now the parts 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: where Sophie reveals the secret of the alchemist Stone and on. 35 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: Women wrote out our theme music. So this is part 36 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: two of our two part series of women who murdered 37 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: their husbands or rather, um well, the people who provided 38 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: the poison. Good times were had by all except potentially 39 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: the husbands, which deserved it probably, so yeah, many of them. 40 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: So we heard about the legend of Aquata fauna the 41 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: cosmetic poison made by one brilliant poison lady. So let's 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: figure out what we know of the truth. We will 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: start in pal Merrow, a city in southern Italy. Well 44 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: it's in Sicily, which is part of Spain at the time, 45 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: where we meet two aspiring widows, so Fania Diadama and 46 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: Francesca Lisarda, And they were part of a thriving scene 47 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: in Italy which someone describing a similar community in Paris 48 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: referred to as the criminal magical underworld. Rome, for example, 49 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: at the time, had upwards of two d magical practitioners. 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: We don't actually know how many Palmaro had, but you know, 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: as a capital of the region, what qualifies is magical. 52 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: We will tell you. Oh hell yeah, did I set 53 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: that up perfectly? Everyone who couldn't go to the proper 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: channels of like doctors with leeches, would go to magicians 55 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: on the street who would sell them ship that honestly 56 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: was probably about as effective as what the leech doctors 57 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: had on offer. There were witches, they were sorcerers, and 58 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: they were priests. The underworld included and possibly revolved around 59 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: these priests who had gone all in for evil ship 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: and lived double lives and lead black masses and this, okay, 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: I'll get to what I do and don't believe in 62 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: this particular part. But these evil priests would live double lives, 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: lead black masses with naked women as the altar in 64 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: order to imbue different potions and saves, and ship with magic. 65 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: And they chanted in a made up mystical language that 66 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: they all came up put together that was just Latin 67 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: and Greek and Hebrew while stuck together basically like all 68 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: the old timey languages they had access to. And they 69 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: weren't quite like Satanists. Their magic supposedly came from God, 70 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: just in really weird ways. They would use blessed wands 71 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: to make potions in the shadow of a cross that 72 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: contained a fragment of the true Cross, while like leading 73 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: black masses with naked ladies as the altar. And I 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: wasn't sure I believed any of this ship, but there 75 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: are a ton of documents from the time attesting to 76 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: it and lots of confessions, although come on which unts 77 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: and inquisitions. I don't trust the confessions, but I think 78 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: some of the ship was actually real. I believe it. Yeah. 79 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: To quote the historian Mike dash this quote just because 80 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: it's cool. Raids conducted by the police on the on 81 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: the Paris Underworld of the sixteen eighties uncovered quantities of 82 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: Grimore's incense wands and a rich ariety of ingredients used 83 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: in sexual magic, including breast milk and bags of powdered 84 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: menstrual blood. Um, how do you make the idea of powder? 85 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: I guess it's like you just dry it out and 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: crush it up. That's interesting. Well, I also we still 87 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: do know everybody, but the culture of which witchiness is 88 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: still alive and well, whether it comes to like crystals 89 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: or even like even meditation, in my opinion, can be 90 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: a form of that kind of energetic change so or 91 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: even like I don't know, it's just I think it's 92 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: very interesting how it's evolved, but it's still here very much, 93 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: and like a lot of it is super legit and 94 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: a lot of it's not. And it's impossible to tell 95 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: who's a grifter and who's legit, just like back then, 96 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of that ship that people 97 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: did probably fucking worked right, because you could go to 98 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: the Magical Underworld and get an abortion, and you could 99 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: get poison, and you get general he lane. You can 100 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: get fortunes and horoscopes, you can get love charms, you 101 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: could get cures for your bad breath. Whatever ailed you, 102 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: they take care of you, no questions asked. They would 103 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: sell stillborn fetuses to gamblers who used them as good 104 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: luck charms. WHOA. They also dealt with quote unwanted babies, 105 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: And I don't know whether that means abortion and fanticide 106 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: or selling children through underground adoption services or to slave traders. 107 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: I have no idea, Honestly, I kind of think it 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: was all of the above. Mhm. At the time. At 109 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: the same time, you have this magical not underworld that 110 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: was flourishing, right because science and magic are fucking at 111 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: the time, and Royalty was dumping tons of money on alchemists. 112 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: Who the like most famous thing that alchemists were trying 113 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: to do was like transmute base metals into gold. They 114 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: were like, oh, well, turn lead into gold or whatever. 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: But then they were also trying to cure disease and 116 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: live forever and improve crop yields and basically just like 117 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: do science and magic all put together, and well not 118 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: everyone involved in magic car alchemy were up to the 119 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: poison thing. These two women. They they might have done 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: some other ship. They probably sold charms and potions or whatever, 121 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: but they also sold poison. It's likely that Tofania was 122 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: who invented aquatfauna named after herself. It's also possible they 123 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: just sold people arsenic mhm. And I suspect that they 124 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: were breaking the law by working without their husband's permission um, 125 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: which is just terrible. I bet their husbands and even 126 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: what they were doing, and they did. They reached their 127 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: main aspiration, which was to become widows. As best as 128 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: I could tell, they both off their husbands in order 129 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: to return to the status of free people. But it 130 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: didn't go well for these two particular women. First Francesca 131 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: and then too Fania went down for the magic trick 132 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: of turning their husbands into corpses. So the state pulled 133 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: the magic trick of turning them into corpses um by 134 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: a bit more gruesome of a method. So for all 135 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: of the like, oh, these like evil poisoners, like the 136 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: ship that happens to people is from the state is 137 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: so much worse than what these fucking poisoners are doing. 138 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: So Fanio was either hang, drawled, and quartered or one 139 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: account at the time says that she was sewing up 140 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: alive into a canvas sack and then thrown from the 141 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: roof of the bishop's palace into the street in front 142 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: of a large crowd. Oh that's brutal. Yeah, And I 143 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: think they pulled off being poisoners for a long time though, 144 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: and maybe had a good run of it before they 145 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: got thrown from sacks from the bishop's roof, so maybe 146 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: it was all worth it mhm. And most everything focuses 147 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: on this other woman, Julia to Fauna, who was born 148 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: Julia Mangiardi and legend hazardus to Fania's daughter who learned 149 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: the trade from Mom and then after Mom's execution, took 150 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: off to Rome with some of the other students to 151 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: set up a poison shop in the big city. And 152 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: apparently it was a vaguely normal thing at the time 153 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: in Italy or Sicily or whatever too for a woman 154 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: to take her mother's first name as her own last name. 155 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: But it's is just as likely that she took the 156 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: name to Fauna as a last name because she was 157 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: selling aquata Fauna. It also seems possible that she never 158 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: went by to Fauna, and this is the name that 159 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: folklore has abscribed to her and she has been her 160 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: whole life. Going by Mangiardi, there's no evidence that she 161 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: was to Fani's kid to Fani's kid, but there is 162 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: also no evidence that she wasn't whatever. It's also possible 163 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: she left her room before anyway, okay, whatever, but aquata fauna. 164 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: The symptoms, according to a public notice that was put 165 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: out later once everyone got busted, were, to quote the 166 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: book Toxicology in the Middle Ages and Renaissance in a 167 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: chapter by Mike dash the symptoms were a burning pain 168 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: in the throat and stomach, vomiting, extreme thirst, and diarrhea, 169 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: all of which point to arsenic as the active ingredient 170 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: of the poison. That suggested antidote was lemon juice and vinegar, 171 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: and to to continue the quote, aquata fauna was described 172 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: as clear and tasteless, suggesting that a key part of 173 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: the manufacturing process was masking the characterist the metallic taste 174 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: of arsenic. It was also considered to be a relatively 175 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: gentle poison which did not produce so much vomiting as 176 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: and hence aroused less suspicious than other preparations known at 177 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,599 Speaker 1: the time, So basically all of the different poisons that 178 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: you were getting on the street that were any good 179 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: were just different concoctions of arsenic And it was just 180 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: like people figuring out different ways to like prepare the arsenic, right, 181 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it is interesting. I wonder how they did 182 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: mask that taste, because it's impressive, I know, and I 183 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: think that there's some suspicion that they like did some 184 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: mask into the taste, but not actually as much as 185 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: people claim. It was not as perfect of a poison 186 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: as people claim. It was a very good poison, but 187 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: mostly it was added to wine because wine I was 188 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: going to say, like, if you had like a couple 189 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: drops to wine, it's probably not even traced or like 190 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: you can't taste it at all. And so Tafano wasn't alone. 191 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: Her stepdaughter, who just happened to be a widow surprised 192 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: there named Girolamas Bara or Spawna, depending on which book 193 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: you read. Both books are people are very committed to 194 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: these different spellings, and they're very legitimate, seeming sources. Spara 195 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: sold to the aristocratic circles that she worked in as 196 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: a professional astrologer, right, so she would get hired to 197 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: predict the future and find missing objects and tell people 198 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: about themselves and ship. Well, Giovanna de Grandie sold to 199 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: working class women. Um mostly she was a beggar, and 200 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: she would hang out outside churches, because churches where women 201 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: could gather and talk. And there's all these like cartoons 202 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: at the time about how like when women talk at church, 203 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: it's the devil talking through them, which most of the 204 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: time is bullshit. But I guess sometimes they were inspiring 205 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: to kill all their husbands or whatever. So whatever every 206 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: joke they say as a layer of truth. But yeah, 207 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: and they also sold other ship, right, They weren't just poisoners. 208 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: They worked as cunning women or sometimes wise women or 209 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: divine arresses, and they were selling charms and you know, 210 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: telling fortunes and ship. They started exporting poison to other 211 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: cities too, through women they trusted, and they had this 212 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: whole regional distribution network for husband killing poison. They found 213 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: their clients not by you'll be shocked to know this. 214 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: They don't just like hang up a sign and that 215 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: like in a you know, just like go into an 216 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: alley and there's a sign it's like kill your husband 217 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: five dollars. They were fortune tellers and likely abortionists and 218 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: all of that, and so they would slowly learn who 219 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: they could trust, and they also learned who was stuck 220 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: in unhappy marriages. So it's like they're they're witches and 221 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: terror readers and fortune tellers and therapists, you know, absolutely, yeah, yeah, no, 222 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's a necessary thing for society 223 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: to have. Are these people who provide all of these services. 224 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: So to make their poison they needed arsenic and then 225 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: actually theoretically the best guesses about Aquata fauna is that 226 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: it had antinomy and lead and maybe mercuric chloride, which 227 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: was a treatment for venereal disease at the time, And 228 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: my guess is what killed um Pathri's husband, but I 229 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: don't know. Rather than Bella Donna, which is what was 230 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: like rumored to be in it because Belladonna is a 231 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: poison and you know, has a romantic sounding name, there 232 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: are other things that were rumored to be in it, 233 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: including many of which I've never heard of before, toad flax, 234 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: Spanish fly, snap dragon, penny wart, and the spittle of 235 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: mad men. The spittle of mad men, you know, like 236 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: imagine being like someone whose job it is to be 237 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: like the madman who sells his spittle. Yeah, like what 238 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: if you went to therapy and you're like feeling better 239 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: to be like, no, I gotta keep it up. My 240 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 1: job depends on this. Yeah. I also because I am 241 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: a dummy sometimes I wanted to make sure I want. 242 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly, or I didn't know before I 243 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: read it right now, Like where arsenic actually comes from? Okay, 244 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, well it sounds like okay, inorganic arsenic compounds, 245 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: they're found in soils, sediments, and groundwater. They either occur 246 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: naturally or as a result of mining or smelting and 247 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: industrial use of arsenic. Okay. Organic arsenic compounds are mainly 248 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: found also in fish and in shellfish. So I'm wondering, like, 249 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: how did these women procure this? Is perfect? That is 250 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: literally the next sentence in the script. Oh hell, make see. 251 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: It was worth the little flip fumble there, but like, yeah, 252 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: it says arsenic is found in the natural environment, in 253 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: some abundance in the Earth's crust and in small quantities 254 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: and rock, soil, water, and air like that is that's wild? 255 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just a yeah, something to think about. 256 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: So they needed arsenic, so they found a priest they 257 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: found one of these sort of fallen priests that was 258 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: talking about earlier in the Magical Underworld. His name was 259 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: Father giro Lama and his brother was an apothecary, and 260 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: so he hooked them up and this religious overlap continued. 261 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: They didn't always sell it as aqua to fauna, and 262 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: it's actually possible they never sold as aqua to fauna, 263 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: and that's just like the myth name that gets attached 264 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: to it. But they definitely sold it for a while 265 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: under the name Mana of St. Nicholas. And because when 266 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: I first started researching this, it would talk about how 267 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: sold as holy water or cosmetics, but the wacky thing 268 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: is that it was both at once. Speaking of skincare routines, 269 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: Mana of St. Nicholas was meant to be the oil 270 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: that dropped from St. Nicholas's bones where it was held 271 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: in a church. Or maybe they like pour the oil 272 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: over his bones, I'm not sure. And this holy oil 273 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: got sold in the street as not as poison, as 274 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: a as a kind of regular scam. So this holy oil, 275 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: when it wasn't just poison, the regular scam and it 276 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: was sold for the purpose of fighting acne and other 277 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: facial blemishes. Interesting, So this is what they labeled their 278 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: poison as because basically it's like the woman will have 279 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: all of the different you know, cosmetics on the shelf 280 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: and the man never touches any of it whatever, So 281 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: it's a safe place to put it. And so they 282 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: labeled it in these like vials that look very holy 283 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: and the St. Nicholas on them or whatever. But it's 284 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: just meant to be this like fucking you know, face 285 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: blemish cream oil whatever. Hey, facial oils are still used today. 286 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: People stand by them, so it's like you're wrong too something. Again, 287 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't use an oil, use a cream. But I 288 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: also but I'm like, I like my crow's feet. I 289 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: want everything else to stay youthful, but I like my 290 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: crows feet is like a sign of like you've lived 291 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: happy time. Yeah, totally get out and the sun enough 292 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: the forehead wrinkles. I would take some oil that dropped 293 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: off of St. Nicholas's bones. Maybe the blood of innocence, 294 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: especially billionaires, the blood of available. Yeah can we can? 295 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: So if you can, we be sponsored by the blood 296 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: of billionaires. Yeah? Why not? Hell? Yeah? Wow, she's the best. Yeah, 297 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: and uh it is. It is that time. It's that time. 298 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: Well that you did that without even trying. Do you 299 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: have a husband, is he a great person? If he's 300 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: not a great person, are you living in a time 301 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: when divorce is not an option? Well, akwa toe fauna. 302 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: Four drops administered to wine over the course of four months, 303 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: and you will be a widow. Here's some other ads. 304 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: We are back and speaking of people who are mostly 305 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: in money, these women were mostly in it for the money, 306 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: right as you know the whole thing which is like 307 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, they're in it for the money. 308 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, they're in it for the like 309 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: means by which they feed themselves and take care of 310 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: their families, like when a bunch of monsters, right, yeah, exactly, 311 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: because but I mean it's like freedom in a lot 312 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: of ways, like freedom from their husbands, but also like 313 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: money will give you freedom as well, and then a 314 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: lot of ways to write totally, it's the it's it's 315 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: a agency in a lot of ways. The problem is 316 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: that people have too much agency and other people too 317 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: little agency. But they did have some altruistic moments, and 318 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: in particular, they would give the poison out for free 319 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: to women who couldn't afford it, who really needed to 320 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: reach widowhood decades into her poisoner's career, at least twenty 321 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: one years into it, probably longer than that. Juliet Tefauna 322 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: died peacefully in her bed in sixteen fifty one. She 323 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: was like seventy years old. She didn't die from poison. 324 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: She'd never been caught. She lived her whole fucking life 325 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: as fucking and she's Actually it's possible she invented to 326 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: Fauna and then like named it after her mentor you know, 327 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, and her friends, including possibly her stepdaughter, 328 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: carried on without her, and I tried really hard. I 329 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: think that I think this is enough of a pop 330 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: culture reference that I'll get Sophie's attention and love, um, 331 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: which is why I make this podcast, UM free. Thanks. 332 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: So I tried to find an earl killed by the 333 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: gang because of the country song about killion earl or 334 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: almost died. Yeah, thanks, um, because I want to make 335 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: the girls about to die joke. Yeah. Um. But I 336 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: didn't find an earl, but I did find a duke. 337 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: Francesco Cessi, the Duke of Seray, was thirty years older 338 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: than his wife when he suddenly died and she was 339 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: suddenly doing way better in life. But in sixteen fifty 340 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: eight the Poisoner's gang came to the attention of the authorities. 341 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: And I, as the way it's always phrased, right, I 342 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: struggle to imagine that they kept it up for thirty 343 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: years unnoticed. I bet they were paying someone off. They 344 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: were protected by some kind of crime syndicate or just 345 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: I don't know the Catholic Church, which was basically the 346 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: biggest crime syndicate in Rome at the time, because why 347 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: would they protect them, though I presume money is my 348 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: main guess. Um. I presume that they were paying someone 349 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: off or power, right, yeah, giving them poison, I you know, 350 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: providing abortions for their mistresses. Like it's a good point 351 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: because the magical underworld was an open secret. And the 352 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: reason we know this is that the women who are 353 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: selling this poison ship, they like kept receipts, and they 354 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: like with like issue written promises of payment like and 355 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: I think it wasn't like payment for services rendered dead 356 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: husband or whatever. But they were like being very above 357 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: ground about how they handled a lot of their finances. 358 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: But history doesn't like talking about whether or not they 359 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: were in the bed with Catholic Church or some other 360 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: crime syndicate or something. I don't know. I don't know exactly, 361 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: but it seemed like an open secret, and I doubt 362 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: that they were doing this for thirty years unnoticed. How 363 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: did they get caught? Multiple versions of the story you 364 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: will be shocked to know. One version of the story 365 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: is that so many people were fessing up and confessional 366 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: that the pope decided to do something about it, because 367 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: I guess the people, you know, the priests would like 368 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: turn around and tell the confessions to the pope or whatever. 369 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: I don't believe that one. It's also possible that de 370 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: grand Is, the lower class poisoner, got entrapped by a 371 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: woman working for the police who showed up with a a 372 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: sob story and desire to kill her husband. My my guess, 373 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: and this is I'm not a historian. I'm not allowed 374 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: to make whatever I'm making. This guess. I think they 375 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: went down because they killed that earl because he died 376 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: a year before the investigation into them started, right the duke. 377 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: They didn't kill an or only killed a duke. Interesting 378 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: And because when you're helping random people kill people like whatever, 379 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: But then when you when you get to a duke, 380 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: maybe it's a step too. Yeah, but I guess like 381 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: if you're if they're doing pro bono poison poison services, 382 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: then the duke client must have been a good Like 383 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: there was probably money and that how do you turn 384 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: that down? I know? And like maybe the duchess was like, 385 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: it's really bad, right, and she's married to some thirty 386 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: year old older than her dude that like, yeah, I 387 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: mean whatever, maybe there's a happy no, you know what 388 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: I'm if you are forty and you date a seventy 389 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: year old, I don't care. Yeah. Anyway, Also around that time, 390 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: they might have been stepping up their murders around the 391 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: time that they started to get caught, because there was 392 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: a plague going through room at the time, which was 393 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: a particularly good time for men to die unnoticed. So 394 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: either they were stepping up their murders or suspicion of 395 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: them being murderers was going through the roof because all 396 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: of these people were dying right. Either way, the poisoner's 397 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: ring goes down after at least thirty years, easily fifty years. 398 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: Five poisoners are put up on trial, mostly poor women. 399 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: Several of them are the are beggars. One of them 400 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: Maria Spinola. Her nickname is Griffola, which is a type 401 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: of mushroom more commonly known as head of the woods. 402 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: And it's just a sick name. And anyone out there 403 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: is looking for a new name, Yeah, Griffola, you know 404 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: the Yeah. And not all of the five who went 405 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: down were widows. Two of them were happily married, although 406 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: one was married to her like fourth husband. I wonder 407 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,239 Speaker 1: what happened to the first three. I know she really, uh, 408 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how some trial runs, yeah exactly. Stefana 409 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: herself had remarried and stayed remarried. And actually it was 410 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: like her husband's daughter who continued on the gang after 411 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: she died. And I would say, the kind of man 412 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: who is willingly married to a crime lord, poisoner, who 413 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: helps people murdered her husband's is a keeper mm hmmm. 414 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: He's an ally, Yeah, an ally man, God bless whoever 415 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: whoever those people are. But yeah, he knows, he's he 416 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: knows he's part of the problem or is tight, you know, Yeah, 417 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: And I suspect he would never occurred to him to 418 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: do anything abusive or cruel to his wife. That's yes, exactly, Uh, 419 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: but you hear that that's how you become an ally everybody? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 420 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: So the first poisoner who got arrested de Grandis. She 421 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: she named names, presumably after torture h Spana or Spara, 422 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: the astrologer. She held out for months of torture before 423 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: she confessed, and the torture they faced was another one 424 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 1: I'd never heard of, called strapado, where your wrists are 425 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: tied together behind your back and you're hung from your 426 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: arms while your shoulders slowly dislocate. What the funk Medievo era? 427 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: No that I don't like that either. Yeah. I hate 428 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: the people that made these up, Like right, it's just 429 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: like what not into it? Right? And then they turned 430 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: around and they're like that woman is an evil, murderous 431 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: as They're like, how else do you think we could 432 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: make people unhappy? Yeah? I want to hear them scream more. Yeah, 433 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: maybe that's what it was. There's just a lot of 434 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: migraines going around from like the smoke in the air, 435 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: burning trash, air pollution. Yeah really, Um, you blame them? Yes? 436 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: The answers, yes, but worth noting for any listeners today. 437 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: A couple of the women named names, right, away and 438 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: they were hanged with the rest because snitching doesn't pay. 439 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: Only for that kids only starting off rich pays. Unfortunately 440 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to crime. Based on who survived this ordeal, 441 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: I mean also true today, soop forty six murders get 442 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: hurt out in court and the five woman women plus 443 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: one of their clients were hanged in front of a 444 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: huge crowd in sixteen and before her execution, Spannah said, 445 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: I've given this liquid to more people than I've got 446 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: hairs on my head. That rules. I love that. Also, 447 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: just like, even if they got caught, they helped so 448 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: many women probably you know what I mean. They they 449 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: like not all those women that their clients, like, their 450 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: clients didn't get caught. I'm assuming right many of them did. 451 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: But um, about forty of them got put on trial. 452 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: Um but out of six hundred, yeah, more than forty. 453 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: Lower class widows get put on trial. Most of them 454 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: get life in prison. One of them got hanged. And Okay, 455 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: the fucked up thing we know the men who were 456 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: killed were pretty monstrous because of the court record, because 457 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: all of their abuse against their wives was heard in 458 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: court as evidence, but it was evidence for the prosecution 459 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: because the fact that the men like beat their wives 460 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: and ship was considered not as justification but as motive. 461 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: M M. So it would be like, how do you 462 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: know this woman you know, murdered her husband and someone 463 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: would be like, well, her husband used to beat her, 464 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: and so they'd be like, ah ha, she's the murderous, 465 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: interesting and scruel. Well. Also, I guess it was like 466 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: legal right to be your wife. Yeah, I presume so, yeah, 467 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: the complicated part. To complicate, no one's perfect. A few 468 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: of the husbands were murdered, maybe for being gay, basically 469 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: like he was fucking boys instead of me. But at 470 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: least in one of the cases, it was he was 471 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: bringing home boys and making me watch and I don't 472 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: know what is meant by boys in this context, and 473 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: also forcing someone to watch this funked up so like 474 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: maybe deserved a murdering. Maybe it's I guess you can't 475 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: just sell poison and expected to only be used in 476 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: good ways. There's another moral of the story, unfortunately, But 477 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: you know who didn't have to go on trial, Suan 478 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: they're rich clients. Oh yeah, right, so the duke's the 479 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: duke's person wife person probably just had a great, rich 480 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: life after that well. Yeah, like basically, okay, so the 481 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: priests that hooked them up with the arsenic and the 482 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: clients weren't put on trial. The Pope himself intervened to 483 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: keep the names of the rich ladies out of the trial. 484 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: They were interrogated separately for information, but not dragged in 485 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: front of the judge and face no charges. So basically 486 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: they were just like turn state's evidence. Yeah, and assumably 487 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: like they paid off, like they were like they bribed 488 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: them or something like. I don't know whether it was 489 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: a bribe thing or whether it was a like we 490 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: don't want to look bad and these women matter and 491 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: these other women don't. Um, but I'm not I'm not sure. 492 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean it was you know, I think you could 493 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: buy indulgences from the Catholic Church at the time where 494 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: he'd be like I did a sin. They'd be like, 495 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: all right, a hundred bucks, you know, because I definitely 496 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: had bucks. Dollars was the currency of choices renaissance and medioidally. Yeah, 497 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: George Washington, Yeah, totally, yeah, Like who is this guy? 498 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: Oh you'll know one day. M and the priest guy, 499 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: no one knows why he wasn't put on trial. He 500 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: could have honestly been dead by then, or the church 501 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: could have taken care of their own. Who knows. But 502 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: while only forty six of the murders were heard in court, 503 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: the Holy Roman Emperor Charles the sixth later had legal 504 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: papers describing the death of six people caused by that 505 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: particular poison. So that's where we get the six hundred 506 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: head count from them, and the court records from the 507 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: whole trial were locked up in a castle because the 508 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: pope didn't want anyone knowing how to make the poison. 509 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: They weren't uncovered until eighty. So there was two hundred 510 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: years of like myth making and folklore that muddied historic 511 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: waters and are part of why we have such a 512 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: hard time like tracking what happened. The name aquata fauna, 513 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: it lived on. It became a folkloric term alongside water 514 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: from Palmero Renny quote slow poison, and for centuries men 515 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: lived in fear of this slow poison. Mozart, when he died, 516 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: admittedly kind of suddenly at thirty five years old, which 517 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: is like a hundred years later or whatever, he's like, 518 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: I have been poisoned by akuata fauna, he said, But 519 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: no one actually knows how he died. Um. It could 520 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: have been poison It could have been syphilis, it could 521 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: have been food poisoning poisons. Um. Yeah, there's like one 522 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: that's like maybe it's like undercooked pork chops or whatever. 523 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. It could have been a variety of things, 524 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: you're right at that time. Yeah, And actually one of 525 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: the main things that people thought was poisoning but wasn't 526 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: was friend of the pod tuberculosis. Anytime anyone died of tuberculosis, 527 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: people will be like it was poison, Like no, honey, 528 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: you're just living in the pre antibiotic era. Mm hmm. 529 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's like if you have no 530 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: way of knowing how someone dies and then you assume 531 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: it's like this magical or like out of nowhere thing 532 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: and you can't exactly like prove otherwise, I don't know, 533 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: poison seems likely if it's like also this like fearmongering 534 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: like big yeah, yeah, everyone's afraid that there's all of 535 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: these you know, women running around poisoning everything, and some 536 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: of them are right, Like hundreds of men you know, 537 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: met their end because of this. But that what's kind 538 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: of interesting is that there were ways to find out. 539 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes you could tell an autopsy if someone had been poisoned, 540 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you cut them up and you look 541 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: to see what happened to their intestines and guts and 542 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: stomach and ship see if there's like different kinds of damage. 543 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: But the thing about akwatafauna that became sort of magical. 544 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: It was this poison that defied autopsy and ship and 545 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: it's like yes and no, this concept of the slow 546 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: poison that you could if you control it just right, 547 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,719 Speaker 1: you could poison someone one drop of time over months 548 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: and they die of natural causes months later. That's not 549 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: real or at least it wasn't real then, and I 550 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: think it's not real now. And it was basically this 551 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: like boogeyman moral panic thing that help men become more 552 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: afraid of women because they're like, oh, I'm slowly getting 553 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: sick and then died. I've been slow poisoned by my wife. 554 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: Like most poisons that kill people at the time, including 555 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: arsenic and probably including the actualk with tafauna, you put 556 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: some drops in someone's food or wine or whatever, and 557 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: then they fucking die. And awkward sefauna was really good 558 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: and that you didn't vomit all over the place, and 559 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: you know, it was like a it was a better poison, 560 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: but and it was like harder to detect the damage 561 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: the organs and ship m hm. Also, have you seen 562 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: the movie Phantom Thread? I have not. This is I mean, 563 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: I guess I don't know if it's spoiler alert if 564 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to go watch it, go 565 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: watch it. But essentially the couple, the woman is poisoning 566 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: her husband over time because she wants him to like 567 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: need her so she can take care of him. So 568 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: maybe like was love behind at of these motives, you know, 569 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: like they just wanted to the men to be like 570 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: little babies that they should take care of. But I mean, 571 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: it's just Paul Thomas Anderson movie, and he deserves to 572 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: be in jail solely because of how we treated you 573 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: and Apple. But that's another story. Um, But I don't 574 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,479 Speaker 1: think it's another I mean, okay, I don't know at 575 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: that particular story, but in some ways I don't think 576 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: it's another story because I think that's a misogynist. Take 577 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: this concept of the woman who is poisoning the husband, 578 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: whether it's a literal poison or whether it's the like 579 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 1: draining his soul to make him reliant on her or whatever. 580 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: Is this misogynist myth and it kind of has the 581 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: roots in that's very true. Well in the movie too, 582 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: it's very much romanticized because he eventually finds out and 583 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: he just keeps going along with it because it's like 584 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: she loves me or whatever the moral that was. But yeah, wow, um, 585 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: but I guess that's a really good point. That is 586 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: also a missogyn to take to be like, oh, she 587 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: wants his attention so bad, or like she like it's 588 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: so desperately wanting to seem valuable to someone. Yeah, and 589 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm I am sure there is someone in history who 590 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: has done something like this, you know. But yeah, just 591 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: like concept. But the one upside, right, So you have 592 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: all of these these women to these men, now like 593 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: I if men die people like it was the wife, right, 594 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: And I'm sure like a lot of god people got 595 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: murdered for being poisoners who weren't poisoners. The one upside is, 596 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: I bet a lot of men stayed their hand because 597 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: they realized the power that women had because of the 598 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: existence of aqua to fauna. Yeah, put them in place, yea. 599 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: So so as as this thing became a legend, right, 600 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: more poisoners took the name to Fauna, at least one 601 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: that we have a record of as a prisoner. In 602 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: seventeen thirty, a hundred years after the Heyday, she took 603 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: the name to Fauna. Another Italian poisoner, which who is 604 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: still in Palmero, was Giovanna Bana No. And her nickname 605 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: and I'm literally including in her in this because I 606 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: like her nickname was the Old Vinegar Lady, oh, which 607 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: ruled her poison got called vinegar and it was a 608 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,479 Speaker 1: mixture of arsenic white wine and vinegar. And she worked 609 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: as a beggar and a poisoner. And she was hanged 610 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: in nine because I guess being a poisoner is illegal 611 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: for some reason. Um, but Old Vinegar Lady also a 612 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: sick name might not be as good as a choice 613 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: for someone, um who's looking for a new name. Up 614 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, but has a bite that's true, that's true. No, No, No, 615 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: twenty years there's more poison hell yeah years. I don't know, 616 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: I feel maybe I'm maybe I'm too excited about this. No, no, whatever, 617 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: like this is this is cool. People do cool stuff, 618 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: like like it's complicated, right, but like overall, like what 619 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: do you fucking want you create a society where women 620 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: the only way that they can have freedom is to 621 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: poison people. They're gonna fucking poison people, and that's on 622 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: fucking you. Women did not create that society. If anything, 623 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: equality at that point would have helped the men, you 624 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like if they want killing to 625 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: stop happening, they can just treat women like human beings, 626 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: you know. But that's that they would rather not have, 627 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: Like they would rather the casualties than actual freedom for women, 628 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: which is another interesting shitty thing. Yeah, some of us 629 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: will die so that we can all hold our power 630 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: over our wives. That makes us miserable too, because of 631 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: sucking patriarchies of prison for everyone. Twenty years after the 632 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: main circle of poisoners from sixteen seventy to sixteen eighty two, 633 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: King Louis the fourteenth Court in France was rocked by 634 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: a scandal called the Affair of Poisons that was kind 635 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: of just a moral panic, but with some actual poison involved. Oh. 636 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: It started with an aristocratic lady, Madame de brund Vier, 637 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: who killed her father and two brothers and tried to 638 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: kill her husband, and she theoretically did this to get 639 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: all their ship like at their a EIDs or whatever. Right, Um, 640 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: that's the easy answer of why she did it. The 641 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: real answer is you we shoked to know patriarchy. She 642 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: supposedly and I think this part is not true. But 643 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: the legend against her claims that she practiced her poison 644 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: by poisoning poor people in the hospital. First, like, she 645 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: killed thirty peasants in the hospital, and she was accused 646 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: of the murder of her brothers and dad, which was true. 647 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: She murdered them. She fled, she got arrested, and then 648 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: she was tortured because let's be real, its fucking whatever. 649 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: That feels like there's no death without torture at this 650 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, there's one historian who claims that she wasn't tortured. Um, 651 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: this whole thing became a bigger deal because it like 652 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: goes all the way up in the court. But the torture, 653 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: I guess now called the water cure. At the time, 654 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: it was called being put to the question in France, 655 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,439 Speaker 1: and basically she was forced to drink sixteen pints of water, 656 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: two gallons of water. She confessed, and she was beheaded. 657 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: But so she probably did it, but when she confessed, 658 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: it came out that she had been sexually assaulted, probably 659 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: by her dad, as a kid. When she was seven, 660 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: she had been sexually assaulted, she didn't say by whom, 661 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: and also that she started sleeping with one of her 662 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: younger brothers who she later murdered. And I have no 663 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: idea what age that happened or what direction the abuse 664 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: went in that setup. Then she grew up and got married, 665 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: even though she didn't want to get married. She wanted 666 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: a divorce because she liked sucking around and be She 667 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: liked being a free person who was in charge of 668 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: herself um and specifically, she knew a divorce wasn't possible, 669 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: so she tried to separate her money from her husband's money. 670 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: And this pisss off her dad because it would ruin 671 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: his reputation because royalty is fucking dumb. So her dad 672 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: had her lover, a captain in the army, thrown into prison. 673 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: In that prison, her boyfriend meant it and poisoner named 674 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: ex Silly who had been the court the court poisoner 675 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: for a bunch of royalty in a bunch of countries, 676 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: and he teaches boyfriend the art of poison, and boyfriend 677 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: gets out of prison and he becomes a licensed alchemist 678 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: so he can get arsenic and all that ship and 679 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: starts making poisons. And the cool thread is that a 680 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: silly might have gotten his information? Who might have gotten 681 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: his information? I read this whole article tracing the lineage 682 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: between the fauna are our heroes from last time, right 683 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: and ex silly and therefore all of these other murders um, 684 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: So this whole long line, you know, it's the gift 685 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: that keeps on giving. Yeah, her boyfriend gets pretty good 686 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: at making poisons, or maybe he just bought the poisons. 687 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: Suing stories change have a question alchemists. There there are 688 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: legal professions back then. Apparently what are they? What are 689 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: they doing? So, like, what are what is alchemy? As 690 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: far as like if they're not killing people, are they 691 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: like having little potions that heal? You like? Is that 692 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: the like what is what is it? So alchemy was 693 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: like in some ways was kind of the word for 694 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: science before science and um and so it was like 695 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: people who were like studying ship and trying to invent 696 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: different chemical ship. Again with the theoretical long lineage of 697 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: trying to create the philosopher's stone and make gold out 698 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: of lead or whatever. But mostly alchemists, I believe at 699 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: the time we're essentially apothecaries and we're like druggists and 700 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: you can go yeah, um. And I don't know exactly 701 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: how the licensing thing worked in France at the time, 702 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: but apparently he was able to get his license to 703 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: be an alchemist in the same way that the arsenic 704 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: that the other people got was through an apothecary, you know, um, 705 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: someone who had legal access to it, who then turned 706 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: around and sold it on the side. And the suspected 707 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: poison this time was oursnic and the essence of toads. 708 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: And it really seems like all the poison at the 709 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: time was just arsenic, was something for flavor. You know. 710 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: They're like, what if you mix arsnic with this, and 711 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: you're like, well, yeah, it's gonna kill someone because it's 712 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: sucking arsenic. It's like the fucking I don't know. Yeah, 713 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: it's like your your style, your brand. But one of 714 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: the things that is interesting, she actually killed her husband, 715 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry her. She didn't kill her husband. She 716 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: tried to kill her husband. She killed her brothers and 717 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: her dad with like a super basic poison that was 718 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: like really obvious when they like cut open, cut them 719 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: open and looked at their organs. And when they found her, 720 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: they found super basic shitty poison which I don't even 721 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: think was arsenic based. I can't remember what it was 722 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: based on. And they also found clear vials of a 723 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: suspected our snake based one, and in order to test it, 724 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: they gave it to stray dogs and killed those dogs, 725 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: which happened a lot of the time. But did you 726 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: know that aquata fauna would never kill a dog. Aquata 727 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: fauna only kills husbands. It will kill a hundred percent 728 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: of husbands one of the time. It is available for 729 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: purchase where ever you get your magical charms. Any person 730 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 1: you meet on the street who will give your fortune. Actually, 731 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: don't go acost actual fortune tellers asking them for poison. 732 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: But but they can get off right with the with 733 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: the code with the code cool people. Yeah, you go 734 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: in and say I'm with cool people and get off 735 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: your aquata fauna. Remember to ask for aquata fauna. Margaret 736 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:31,240 Speaker 1: Killjoyce sent you and then murder your huh uh nope, Okay, 737 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: Sophie is shaking her head. Uh as we are back 738 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: from ads and we are talking about how some poisoned 739 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: ship poisoned. But the husband may have been making sorry, 740 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: the boyfriend may or may not have been. I'm just 741 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: using boyfriend andship because if I started writing it all 742 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: out with all the her names used every time, and 743 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: then I was like, I can't keep track of this 744 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: many names. And if I was a listener, I would 745 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: also not keep track of this many names. And so 746 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm just going with boyfriend. You can look up the 747 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: affairs of the poisons if you want to learn all 748 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,280 Speaker 1: of these people's names. He wasn't very good at security culture. 749 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: He might have been good at poison not good at 750 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: security culture because he saved all of the letters from 751 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,839 Speaker 1: his girlfriend that said things like, hey, babe, what if 752 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: I killed everyone in my family so we could own 753 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: more land or whatever? He dies, I actually don't know 754 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: how he dies. I couldn't find out how he dies. 755 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: It's he's a captain in the army. It's the seventeenth century, 756 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: and he had just murdered some people. So stabbed with 757 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: a sword, hanged by the state, and tuberculosis are my 758 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: three guesses. After he dies, they found all the letters 759 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: and that's how she gets found out and torture and executed. Well, 760 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: during her confession she says, half the people of quality 761 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: are involved in this sort of thing and it could 762 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: ruin them if I were to talk, And by basically 763 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: hating that, she sent everyone into a panic and put 764 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: serious fear into the men at court. And my argument 765 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 1: would be, if you don't want to be murdered by women, 766 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: then don't create an economic system by which women can 767 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: only inherit wealth if they murder you. But whatever, And 768 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,320 Speaker 1: this is the start of the affair of the poisons, 769 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: because her killing the people isn't the affair of the poisons. 770 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: That's just the actual poison murder um. Instead, it's this 771 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: like break up of the magical underworld scene of Paris. 772 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: And and I'm not going to do the whole details 773 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: of the affair of the poisons because it's not actually cool. 774 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: I think the underworld people are super cool, but I 775 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: don't give a shit about royalty. It led to this 776 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: crackdown of the criminal magical underworld of France. All the 777 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: fortune tellers and alchemist everyone's selling aphrodisiacts and horoscopes and 778 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: ship and they might have sold poison and called it 779 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: quote inheritance powder, which rules they're inventive with these names. 780 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: I know, I know, oh one woman who gets called 781 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,239 Speaker 1: a witch and fuck it, I don't know she's a witch. 782 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: That's cool. Um, she might have been in charge of 783 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: it all. She might have been in charge of this 784 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: whole poisoner's ring, or there might not have been a 785 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: fucking poisoner's ring in the magical on the world at 786 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: the time. I don't fucking know. Her name was lavois In, 787 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: which means the neighbor, which is a sick name for 788 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: a witch. Uh, anyone searching for new names whatever, Okay, 789 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: that one might come off oddly. She made her living 790 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: selling love potions made with like after birth and ship. 791 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: She was also maybe responsible for poisoning more than a 792 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,879 Speaker 1: thousand people, and after hours of looking into it, I 793 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: cannot decide whether I think it's true. She ends up 794 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: burned at the stake and it I kind of think 795 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: that the whole thing was made up after the woman 796 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: murdered the husband, the father right, and the brothers. But 797 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,439 Speaker 1: the affair of the poisons leads to thirty six people 798 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: being executed, possibly as witch hysteria, or there might have 799 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: been pre with black masses and incest and poison and 800 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,240 Speaker 1: a garden with the bones of two thousand, five hundred infants. 801 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: Voison's garden. Can you repeat that? Yeah, So supposedly when 802 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: they when they caught Levois in I'm just gonna say 803 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,919 Speaker 1: the neighbor because they can't pronounce French, when they catch 804 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: the neighbor in her garden is buried the bones of 805 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: two thousand, five hundred infants. Oh, and here's a contemporary 806 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: description of one of the black masses from around from 807 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: the poison affair, which I'm guessing didn't happen whatever, Maybe 808 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: it did, there's a lot of evidence it did. It's 809 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: actually literally my skepticism is the only thing holding me 810 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: from just saying this is true. Everyone else is like, 811 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: this fucking happened, and I'm like, I don't fucking know 812 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,880 Speaker 1: about this. Right, historians say this ship happened, It probably 813 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: fucking happened. Maybe not the garden of bones, We're not sure. 814 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: And this is talking about the King's mistress, and who 815 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: was implicated in the whole affair but ended up surviving 816 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: because she was the King's mistress. So here's a contemporary 817 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,359 Speaker 1: description quote a long black velvet paul was spread over 818 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 1: the altar, and upon this the Royal Mistress laid herself 819 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,399 Speaker 1: in a state of perfect nudity. Six black candles were lit. 820 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: The celebrants robed himself in a chawsable embroidered with esoteric 821 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: characters rotten silver. The gold pattern and chalice were placed 822 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: upon the naked belly of the living altar. All was 823 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: silent save for the low, monotonous murmur of the blasphemous liturgy. 824 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,240 Speaker 1: An assistant crept forward, bearing an infant in her arms. 825 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 1: The child was held over the altar, a sharp gash 826 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: across the neck, a stifled cry, and warm drops fell 827 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: into the chalice and streamed upon the white figure beneath. 828 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,360 Speaker 1: The corpse was handed to olive O's inn, who flung 829 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: it callously into an oven fashioned for that purpose, which 830 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: glowed white hot in its fierceness. Yeah the incantation of 831 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,000 Speaker 1: the priest, in case anyone needs the incantation, asked her 832 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: off Asmadeus, Princes of friendship and love, I invoke you 833 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,319 Speaker 1: to accept the sacrifice this child that I offer you 834 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,400 Speaker 1: for the things I ask of you. They are that 835 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 1: the friendship and love of the King and the Dolphin 836 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 1: may be assured to me, that I may be honored 837 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: by all the princes and princesses of the court. That 838 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,240 Speaker 1: the King denied me nothing. I ask, whether it be 839 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 1: for my relatives or for any of my household. Wow. 840 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: First of all, what a pathetic little chant, very desperate. 841 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: What if he loves me? What if he loves me? Yeah? Yeah, 842 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: Also the princes of friendship and love threw me off, 843 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: Like that's assurance has confirmed not a sligh not al. 844 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: But also I mean like most of that stuff for 845 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,359 Speaker 1: me definitely sounds kind of made up, like the right, Yeah, 846 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: that's that is I mean this was written as a 847 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,080 Speaker 1: thing that happened at the time. I don't know. I 848 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: like the affairs of the poisons like gets reported on 849 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: is like all this ship happened, and I don't really 850 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: believe a lot of it. I know that the I 851 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: know that people got hanged. I think it was witch hysteria. Um, 852 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 1: and probably someone listening knows why. Probably truth? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 853 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,319 Speaker 1: it's probably a starting point of truth. And then people 854 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: get scared and take up a bunch of stuff and yeah, 855 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,279 Speaker 1: just implement misogyny over and over the infants that we're 856 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: supposedly used in these rituals were alleged to have been 857 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: acquired from sex workers, or maybe are the fate of 858 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,319 Speaker 1: the people who come to the Magical World asking for 859 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 1: help getting rid of a baby. The priest involved was 860 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: arrested and confessed. But again that means nothing to me, 861 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,240 Speaker 1: because everyone's being tortured, you know. But he theoretically confessed 862 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: it that black mass, and he died in prison, and 863 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,279 Speaker 1: in his confession he claims that he sacrificed several of 864 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: his own newborn children. I I don't believe anything people 865 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:03,560 Speaker 1: who are confessing to saying, but there were several homes 866 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,560 Speaker 1: for wayward priests around Europe, for priests who had started 867 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 1: doing weird ship like that, like having black masses and things. 868 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,720 Speaker 1: So maybe it was actually kind of a big problem, 869 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 1: or maybe the moral panic was everywhere, and every priest 870 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:17,759 Speaker 1: who seemed a little sketchy, you throw them in the 871 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:25,399 Speaker 1: fucking home for wayward Priests and the whole conspiracy, right, 872 00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: I'm curious, like, yeah, I don't know, Um, I mean, 873 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: do you can the baby stuff be true? Like do 874 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:42,280 Speaker 1: they really kill little babies for blood? Maybe I bet 875 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: that some of the magical underworld ship included killing babies, 876 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: but also killing of babies and ship with blood is 877 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,719 Speaker 1: like the core of like bullshit conspiracy type stuff and 878 00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,799 Speaker 1: moral panics and things. So like I bet mostly they 879 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: were abortionists and they were like, you know, love filter 880 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 1: people and whatever like mm hmm. But and I and 881 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: I bet you the I bet you the evil priests 882 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 1: were just like also making love potions where they were like, hell, yeah, 883 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna use my holy powers of God to like 884 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, make some love potions for people or whatever. 885 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: And and they all like had mistresses and we're like 886 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,799 Speaker 1: doing like or misters I guess, and doing all kinds 887 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: of ship that they weren't supposed to. Yeah, I don't know. 888 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: I mean I can't. I can't stop thinking about Raspuchin. 889 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't know why. I feel like he's like a 890 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:45,200 Speaker 1: very famous man which or wizard or whatever mystic, right, 891 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,480 Speaker 1: I like man which is a snack. I'm just saying 892 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 1: that's funny. Um, But it's interesting that I don't know, 893 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 1: like he was a very public royal like yeah, my 894 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 1: essentially your mystic, you know what I mean. Like it's 895 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 1: just very uh that was like not even that long ago, 896 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,800 Speaker 1: that was like late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds or something. 897 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean like this underworld existed like and 898 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: a lot of times it was really out in the open. 899 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: And the question for me is just like whether or not, 900 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,799 Speaker 1: because I I could imagine, like, I don't know, if 901 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,680 Speaker 1: you came to my house and arrested me, it would 902 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 1: look real bad. Some of the ship I keep around 903 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,320 Speaker 1: and the ship that I talked about on this podcast 904 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,280 Speaker 1: and whatever. Right, but I don't like sacrifice babies or whatever, 905 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, but if they would be like it would 906 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 1: be easy to make these jumps with a moral panic 907 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: mm hmm. Yeah, the collapse of this whole conspiracy of poisoners, 908 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,360 Speaker 1: this particular new conspiracy of poisoners apparently, and this woman 909 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,000 Speaker 1: probably was a poisoner, right, She probably was a selling 910 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: people poison person. And I think the neighbor was to um. 911 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: She she was a widow and a fortune teller, and 912 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,520 Speaker 1: she bragged drunk at a party. It was sort of 913 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: like a girlfriend's party. She bragged drunk at a party 914 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: that she was doing so well in the poison game 915 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,480 Speaker 1: that she could retire soon, which got the cops onto her, 916 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,239 Speaker 1: who were like, hello, I would like to buy a 917 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,680 Speaker 1: poison please, and she was like, hell, yeah, I got 918 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,720 Speaker 1: you here some poison and they were like, just kidding, 919 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: we are the police. And so her whole family gets 920 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,879 Speaker 1: arrested and her and her kids are all executed I think, 921 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,120 Speaker 1: burned at the steak so don't brag drunk at parties 922 00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:40,680 Speaker 1: about felonies are doing. And then maybe her whole family 923 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: slept in one bed, all incest style. And this is 924 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,400 Speaker 1: a messier episode that I'm used to doing. Her lesbian 925 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,440 Speaker 1: lover whose party it was died under torture, and in 926 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: the end, the state killed thirty six people, not including 927 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 1: to Die who died under torture, and an unknown number 928 00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 1: who killed themselves. During the repression, forty renegade priests were arrested, 929 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,279 Speaker 1: many of whom got life in prison or I think 930 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: that probably translates to sent to those homes for wayward priests. 931 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,279 Speaker 1: But the affair got kind of shut down once it 932 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,319 Speaker 1: reached the King's mistress and she was never put up 933 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,880 Speaker 1: on charges, and the whole thing fucked France's reputation internationally, 934 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,319 Speaker 1: so much so that when the next crew of occultists 935 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,880 Speaker 1: poisoners cropped up a couple of decades later, because apparently 936 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 1: there's a social need. In seventeen o two, they just 937 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: kind of quietly imprisoned the ringleaders and definitely without trial, 938 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: and just we're like, we're going to make this problem 939 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,880 Speaker 1: go away. We're not going to make it do another 940 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:43,359 Speaker 1: big stink. But anyway, men everywhere can rest a little 941 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,600 Speaker 1: bit easier knowing that divorce is legal and their wives 942 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,760 Speaker 1: have an easier way out of a bad relationship than arsenic. Yeah, 943 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,200 Speaker 1: why are they complaining? Now? You know what I mean, 944 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: You'll have it easy. You'll have it so easy. Way 945 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,799 Speaker 1: to the men or the time men, they should there 946 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 1: should not be any reason for any complaints at this juncture. 947 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: But I mean, like you brought up a good point 948 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: though about it being a need. It kept popping up 949 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,919 Speaker 1: generation after generation or whatever, right, So it's really it's 950 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: pathetic actually how long it took them to even consider 951 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,400 Speaker 1: making men or women and men equal, you know what 952 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: I mean, to hold onto that power or even just 953 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,719 Speaker 1: able to leave each other. Yes, exactly. The concept of 954 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,880 Speaker 1: someone being property was also a huge issue obviously, but like, no, 955 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,400 Speaker 1: I never never affected anything else, right now, that's not 956 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,600 Speaker 1: even sure, Yeah no, yeah, absolutely, yeah yeah yeah, And 957 00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,760 Speaker 1: it kept like like white men to be the people 958 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,719 Speaker 1: that can wield power and only them, and so, like, 959 00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:53,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, power is a disease, and I don't 960 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,920 Speaker 1: know most people when they get it, they I don't know, 961 00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,319 Speaker 1: they'll do anything to keep it. And that's unsettledly to me. 962 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,760 Speaker 1: Would you say that the cure for the power disease 963 00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 1: is arsenic? Maybe not in a legally binding way. What 964 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,480 Speaker 1: I would the fact that it's like literally in our earth. 965 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,480 Speaker 1: It's really magical to me, if you want to use 966 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,840 Speaker 1: that word. It's pretty sick. The fact that, like I 967 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,319 Speaker 1: mean a lot of things grow that are bad for us, 968 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:26,480 Speaker 1: or or even just like roots or whatever is bad 969 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: for us. Yes, ouri is bad for us. There's like 970 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,360 Speaker 1: certain berries you can't eat. But I mean, at the 971 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,960 Speaker 1: end of the day, we are on this globe and 972 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,520 Speaker 1: the Earth is deciding what happens, you know what I mean. 973 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,440 Speaker 1: If the Earth wants to have some things that float around, 974 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,920 Speaker 1: it can kill us. Yeah, you do? You like I 975 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:52,440 Speaker 1: support her? You know? Yeah? Yeah, Well thanks for coming 976 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,719 Speaker 1: on my How to Kill Your Husband episode. It was 977 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,960 Speaker 1: fun to do something a little bit out of my 978 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:02,600 Speaker 1: usual wheelhouse, you know. Yeah, I mean, I'm honored I 979 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,960 Speaker 1: was chosen for this. It was very fun. I learned 980 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:10,400 Speaker 1: a lot um and uh yeah, this is the only 981 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,279 Speaker 1: I think podcasts are the way I learned things now, 982 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,920 Speaker 1: and so I appreciate when they're kid you know. Well, 983 00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: I learned a lot from Sharene's history episodes on it 984 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: Could Happen here, And other people want to learn from Sharine, 985 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: they can do so by listening to Shrine on it 986 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,640 Speaker 1: Could Happen. Yeah, I'm on that. I am also the 987 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: co host of Ethnically Ambiguous, and you can follow me 988 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 1: on social media if you want, Sure Hero Instagram, I'm 989 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,160 Speaker 1: sure hero Twitter. Also, after we're gonna have a joke 990 00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:49,440 Speaker 1: to wrap this up, okay, well my plug that you 991 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,000 Speaker 1: can before you wrap it up with a joke, you 992 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,240 Speaker 1: can also follow me on social media. I also wish 993 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,720 Speaker 1: I wasn't on social media, but I feel more hooked 994 00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: into it than I want to be. I'm on Twitter 995 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,880 Speaker 1: at Magpie Killjoy and on Instagram at Margaret Killjoy. And 996 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,040 Speaker 1: I have a book called We Won't Be Here Tomorrow 997 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:14,040 Speaker 1: that is available now in stores by It go buy it. Yeah. Also, 998 00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,520 Speaker 1: we like kind of shot ourselves in the foot Because 999 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,400 Speaker 1: I also don't like social media and hate that I'm 1000 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,000 Speaker 1: that and connected. But like I feel like if you're 1001 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,880 Speaker 1: on a podcast, you kind of have to be front 1002 00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,760 Speaker 1: facing in a lot of ways. Right, That's why I'm 1003 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:34,040 Speaker 1: on social media. That's called self outage. Yeah, um, all 1004 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:38,680 Speaker 1: ready for my joke. I am absolutely what kind of 1005 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:43,800 Speaker 1: t is hard to swallow? Honestly. Oh that's a good one. 1006 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 1: But IoT the answer, But I take it. I will 1007 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,600 Speaker 1: take that though. I mean, honesty is better. I was 1008 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:55,840 Speaker 1: gonna say reality also true, so true. So yeah, that's 1009 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,080 Speaker 1: that's my joke. Thank you for coming to my joke. 1010 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: Join next week joke our with Sharine. That wasn't a 1011 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,080 Speaker 1: very good joke. That's why it's a Sharina, not me. 1012 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: We'll be We'll be We'll be back next week. We'll 1013 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:15,280 Speaker 1: be bad. We'll be bad, and you'll you'll be here too, 1014 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:24,240 Speaker 1: and you'll listen to because that's what you do. Cool 1015 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,760 Speaker 1: People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool 1016 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,040 Speaker 1: Zone Media. But more podcasts on cool Zone Media. Visit 1017 00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 1: our website cool zone media dot com, or check us 1018 00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,600 Speaker 1: out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 1019 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,360 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.