1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: I have a friend and I'm always the one to 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: make the plans. He'll often cancel or reschedule. I'm wondering 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: if I should take this as he doesn't want to 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: continue the friendship. 5 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 2: This comes up quite a bit in friendship. Who is 6 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 2: the glue that brings people together? 7 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 3: It does this question of who's initiating. I always say, 8 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 3: you can't order people up all a caart, there are 9 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 3: no substitutions. 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: Hey Laurie, Hi Gretchen, and hey, since you ask hers, 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: we are here for another round of advice. So Laurie, 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: what are we going to talk about this week? 13 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 3: Well, we have so many interesting letters and I think 14 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 3: a lot of people will relate to them. We're going 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 3: to be talking about etiquette on a sibling text chain, 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 3: how to handle an unbalanced friendship, which I think a 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 3: lot of people can relate to, and a parenting dilemma 18 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 3: around a major life change. 19 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: But before we jump in, here is a quick update 20 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: from our listener Laura. In the last episode, we talked 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: about her question about whether it was okay to let 22 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: her husband be in charge of making plans for his 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: side of the family, and here's what she said. I 24 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 2: really appreciated the advice I got back. 25 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 4: I think one thing I may have omitted in my 26 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 4: original question is also that my husband has a different 27 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 4: relationship with his family due. 28 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: To how he grew up and stuff. 29 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 4: Going on with his parents when he was younger, and 30 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 4: things are, without getting too into it, a little bit 31 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 4: more complicated, and so part of what I was reflecting 32 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 4: on after I listened to the advice was it's about 33 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 4: the relationships, and that maybe we don't need to have 34 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 4: the same relationships, like the some level of intimacy with 35 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 4: both sides of the family, because I don't know that 36 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 4: that is that important to my husband, because he wants 37 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 4: to sort of keep his boundaries set up and take 38 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 4: care of himself in the way that he knows how 39 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 4: after having more traditionally complicated relationships. 40 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: With his side of the family. 41 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 4: So I do like the framing of it's about how 42 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 4: we want those relationships to go as a family, as 43 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 4: opposed to your versus mind. And I think part of 44 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 4: that is also mere respecting that he may have and 45 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 4: or want a different relationship with his side of the 46 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 4: family based on where they're coming from. 47 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: Thanks. 48 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 4: Again, what I think is. 49 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: So important about Laura's response is that so many times 50 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 3: we make assumptions about why the other person is or 51 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: isn't doing what makes us so frustrated. She said, I 52 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 3: feel like I have to make the plans for both 53 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 3: sides of the family. But then when she reflected on 54 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: it more, she really thought about, you know what, we 55 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 3: do have different relationships with each of our families, and 56 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: I hadn't taken that into consideration. 57 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: And it's good they can think of our family as 58 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: opposed to yours versus mind, but those relationships might look different. 59 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: That was something that a lot of listeners really responded to, 60 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: was this idea of how do we navigate whatever challenges 61 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: there are as a family as opposed to thinking about 62 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 3: this is my territory and this is your territory. And 63 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 3: I think that's good for all of us to keep 64 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 3: in mind. 65 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Okay, let us jump in. As always, we start 66 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: each episode with one of your questions. Last week we 67 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 2: asked you to think about this question from Rebecca as 68 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: a reminder. It goes like this, I have a very 69 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: close knit family who communicate daily via a family text 70 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: thread that includes my elderly parents, myself, my husband, my son, 71 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: my sister, and my brother. My sister lives near my 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 2: elderly parents who are in poor health, and helps them 73 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: a great deal with daily living tasks. I live about 74 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: four hours away and visit monthly to help out as 75 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: much as I can. My brother lives farther away and 76 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: visits annually. The problem is that my sister's frustration with 77 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: her unequal caregiving responsibilities is manifesting itself in some very 78 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: judgmental comments on the family texts. My husband, who also 79 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,839 Speaker 2: receives the texts, has commented that he often feels uncomfortable 80 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: with the tone of the text in the family chat. Recently, 81 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: for instance, my sister texted to the entire family that 82 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: she felt that she was leaving behind small children, meaning 83 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: our parents, when she went out of town on a 84 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: much needed vacation. When I have privately commented on her 85 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: unkind words, she says that she's quote just being honest. 86 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: How can I communicate to my sister that I appreciate 87 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: all of her hard work for our parents, while at 88 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: the same time firmly telling her that her comments are hurtful? 89 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: In other words, how can I establish better boundaries in 90 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: the family chat? A lot going on there. 91 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: What really pops out to me here is this idea 92 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: that when it comes to helping to care for your parents, 93 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 3: so many sibling dynamics that had gone under the radar 94 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: start to become a parent. Yeah, you're the sibling who's 95 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: the responsible one, or you're the sibling who's the favorite. 96 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: I'm the sibling who always has to take care of everything, 97 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: whatever that is. And I wonder if some of those 98 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: dynamics are manifesting right now. 99 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: Sometimes when people say just being honest, it's not so 100 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: much the message of what they're saying, but the delivery. 101 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: There's a way to communicate in a way that's less 102 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: brutal honesty, but caring honesty. 103 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 3: I think a lot of times when people say that 104 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 3: they've gotten so frustrated that they're just saying I'm just 105 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: being honest, and then they say it in a way 106 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 3: that doesn't land well on the other person. I think 107 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: she's just frustrated, and I think she doesn't know how 108 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: to be direct, and maybe it's because the other siblings 109 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: don't really take what she's saying seriously about how much 110 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: of a burden this is feeling to her that it's 111 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 3: feeling like it's all falling on her. And if she 112 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 3: is the people pleaser in the family. Oftentimes the people 113 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: pleasers become resentful, but then they don't directly say that 114 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: they're resentful because they're still trying to please people, So 115 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 3: it comes out in this backward way. 116 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, to me, this is not a question of 117 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 2: managing someone's communication on the text chain. To me, this 118 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 2: is a cry for help from someone who's overburdened and 119 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: deeply resentful. And instead of focusing on the text comments, 120 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 2: I would say this is and the brother might focus 121 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: on her feelings of doing all this hard work. One 122 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: sister is visiting monthly, a brother is visiting annually. The 123 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 2: sister who's setting the text chains is helping daily, and 124 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: so she's showing this building resentment and growing anger. So 125 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: it seems like this is a sign that it's time 126 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: for a various serious conversation about duties, about the work 127 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: being done. And if the listener and her brother they 128 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: can't be present, what else could they do to lift 129 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: a burden? Could they pay for things? Could they take 130 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 2: the burden of making arrangements like grocery deliveries. Could they 131 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: research local senior services together? Could they arrange for the 132 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: caretaking sister to take time off, which isn't oh, you 133 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: should make time for yourself. What are the arrangements that 134 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: would make that possible? Right? 135 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 3: Because often when people say you should take time for yourself, 136 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 3: then you have another job and now your job is 137 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 3: to figure out, well, how do you do that as 138 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: opposed to let me help you create the situation where 139 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: you can take time for yourself. So what contributions can 140 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: you make from a far that are meaningful contributions? 141 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: So what is our advice? First acknowledge how much work 142 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: your sister is doing, give her credit and praise, and 143 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: have a direct conversation about a fairer distribution of work 144 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: and how other siblings might assume some of the burdens. 145 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: And part of that conversation is what can you yourself 146 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: do that is tangible that could take some of the 147 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 3: burden off, even from afar. 148 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: And you might have a separate text chat for siblings 149 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: and the care arrangements. You keep the main chat with 150 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: the extended family for the cheerful news, the pet photos, 151 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: all those fun things. So if she needs to vent 152 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: in the chat, it's just staying within that small group, 153 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: not the larger group. 154 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: And I would also look at some of the comments 155 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: in the chat not as unkindness, but as, like you said, Gretchen, 156 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: a cry for help. I think that when the comments 157 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: get like that, it's wait, I can't manage this anymore, 158 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: and I really need us to work together as a 159 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: team as siblings to figure out how can we all 160 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: manage our parents in a way where none of us 161 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 3: feels one is singled out as shouldering too much of 162 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: the burden and I think too. Part of it is 163 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: that we want to enjoy our time with our parents. 164 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: Caretaking is really hard, but at the same time, it's 165 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 3: an opportunity to spend time with your parents. You're not 166 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: going to get forever with your parents, and so the 167 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: more that it can be less burdensome, the more that 168 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 3: you can also each enjoy this time of life with 169 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: your parents. 170 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: So we want to know what your experiences have been. 171 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 2: Have you dealt with similar challenges with sibling issues with 172 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: aging parents. If you want to weigh in or submit 173 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: your own questions, go to the Since You askpodcast dot com. 174 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 3: And now it's time to hear from you. In this segment, 175 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 3: which we call Wisdom of Crowds, we will highlight a 176 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: question on our social media and share your responses here, we. 177 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 2: Asked if your friend's children or badly behave, would you 178 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: say something to your friend yes or no? And why? 179 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: Now this is a very fraught question, so I was 180 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 3: very curious to hear what our sent you askers we're 181 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: going to say to. 182 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: This yes, and we had a clear winner. Yes was 183 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: twenty nine percent and seventy one percent said no. And 184 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: we got many responses explaining the reason for their answers. 185 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 3: So of the twenty nine percent who said yes, Diane said, 186 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 3: I don't care how they behave anywhere else, but at 187 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 3: my house they will behave or I'll have a chat 188 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: with them. I'll also tell the parents they can't do 189 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: that here. My friends know what kids can and can't 190 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 3: do in my house, so there are no surprises. I 191 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: actually like this idea of setting expectations up front instead 192 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 3: of after the child does something and then you have 193 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 3: to tell them not to. 194 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 195 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: It's always better for people to know in advance, rather 196 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: than getting reprimanded for something that maybe they didn't know 197 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: they weren't supposed to do. Yeah, Stephanie said, yes, I 198 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: would want to know the same thing if it was 199 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: my kiddo, but be discerning and sensitive on how. 200 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: You approach it right, And Laurie's said, I usually make 201 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: a joke that my dogs are better behave than their children. 202 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 3: Sometimes they laugh and sometimes they. 203 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: Get really mad. 204 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: I just want to say that you don't want to 205 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: shame the kids. Yeah, it's one thing to bring a 206 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: little bit of levity into it, but there's a fine 207 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: line between being insulting or disparaging the kids. 208 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: I do think that levity can help. If you can 209 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 2: joke around and be lighthearted about it, it can take 210 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: the sting out of it. But it has to be 211 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: done very well. If this is sometimes they laugh and 212 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: sometimes they get really. 213 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 3: Mad, that's a sign. 214 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not quite striking the right note. Kelly said, yes, 215 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 2: if it affects me personally, and even then I'll do 216 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: it as a request to the child, for example, asking 217 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: the child please don't play with the door. It makes 218 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: a scary noise when you slam it, and you could 219 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: get hurt in front of that child's parent. I hope 220 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: the parent will take the cue to discipline their child 221 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: from there, it's more respectful. And Tommy said, you bet, 222 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: I would. I tell them straight up, your kid just 223 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: hit my dog with a stick. No sugarcoating, no beating 224 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: around the bush. If they get mad, that tells me 225 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: everything I need to know about it our friendship. Kids 226 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: need boundaries, and so do parents. I agree with the 227 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: part about parents need boundaries too, in the sense that 228 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: parents need to understand that what's okay in their house 229 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: might not be okay in other people's houses. Sometimes it's 230 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 2: easy to forget that, and we really want to be 231 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: respectful of what the rules are in other people's houses. 232 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 2: This is so true because there's so many things that 233 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: you may just assume, well, everybody does it this way, 234 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: or no one would do this. A big issue in 235 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: our household is do you wear shoes in the house? 236 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: I wear shoes in the house, and I'm definitely an 237 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: outlier there, but many children would take off their shoes 238 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: thinking that that's the rule. That's a little thing, but 239 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 2: it's a good example of how you can't make assumptions 240 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: that someone's being badly behaved because maybe they don't know 241 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: that it is a rule for you. 242 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 3: Right, some houses, they have a couch that they all 243 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: jump on because they think it's fun. Right at your house, 244 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: it might not be we don't jump on the couch, 245 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 3: right or we don't put our feet on the coffee table, 246 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 3: but at another house they. 247 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: Do, or eating out of the kitchen. There's so many 248 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: things like this, so I think we just have to 249 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 2: be mindful of that. And Michelle says yes, because I 250 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: love my friend and her children. If I notice patterns 251 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: like lying or being mean to siblings, I'll bring it 252 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: up gently. Real friends don't let each other's kids grow 253 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 2: up to be jerks when a conversation could help. 254 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: I think we should make that a slogan. Yes, real 255 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: friends don't let each other's kids grow up to be jerks. 256 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 3: That is true. 257 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: That's a good mug. 258 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 3: Okay, so let's look at the nose. So seventy one 259 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 3: percent said no, and Jennifer said absolutely not. I remember 260 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 3: how sensitive I was about my own kids when they 261 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: were little. Even well meaning comments feel like attacks on 262 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 3: my parenting. I'd rather preserve the friendship and model good 263 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: behavior for all the kids instead of creating drama. 264 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 2: Kristen says nope, but I always tell my friends when 265 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: their kids are well behaved. I do this often. I 266 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: will send an email to say, what beautiful manners, what 267 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: good company? They handled themselves so well, because it's nice 268 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: to hear, and then, of course you think that they 269 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: probably tell the children. 270 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: Yes, and then the children repeat the good behavior. Yes, 271 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: it's true that when you hear something that you've done well, 272 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 3: you're apt to repeat it. And when you hear something 273 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: that you haven't done well, then you might rebel against 274 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 3: that or you might just feel shamed. So I love 275 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 3: the idea of giving positive feedback when the kids are 276 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: well behaved. And Joanne said, in general, no, unless they 277 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 3: were about to cause damage to someone or something. But 278 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: if they were visiting my home, I'd feel freer to 279 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 3: invoke the house rules. And I think that's what we were 280 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: talking about earlier, is betting expectations before anything happens in 281 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: our house. We just want you guys to know that 282 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: when we're going to eat, we want to put it 283 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: on plates or whatever. 284 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: The rule is, right, right, David says never every parent 285 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: thinks they know better than everyone else, and commenting on 286 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: general behavior just creates resentment. Kids go through phases, and 287 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: most grow out of bad habits naturally, unless someone's in 288 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: physical danger. I mind my own business and trust that 289 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 2: parents know their own children best. Well. I think that's 290 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: good to say, maybe this kid is being obnoxious, but 291 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: it's a phase or they're being badly behaved. But I 292 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: mind my own business. 293 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: And I always think with all of us, the moment 294 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: in time is just a snapshot. It's not the entirety 295 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: of the child. 296 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 2: Yes. 297 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 3: Have you ever come home from work you had a 298 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: bad day and you're not your best self? Sometimes a 299 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: kid'll come over and they're just not having a good day, 300 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 3: So I think we have to keep that in mind too. 301 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: Yes, And here is a few additional thoughts. Amanda noted, 302 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: if it's my closest friend who I'm raising my kids with, absolutely, 303 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: my friend who I see four times a year. No, 304 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: So that goes to the intimacy that you feel with 305 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: a friend. How close are you to the child and 306 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: to the parent? 307 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: And Natalie said, behavior is in the eye of the beholder. 308 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: What is acceptable in my house might not be acceptable 309 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 3: in their house. If the child is going to physically 310 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: hurt themselves or others, then yes. If the child is 311 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: an ill mannered, bore, unlikely. 312 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: Well, again, behavior is in the eye of the beholder. 313 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: That sums it up. Yes, absolutely well. We love hearing 314 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: your thoughts and we'll be sharing more questions like this 315 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: one check out our socials and we will be highlighting 316 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: responses on upcoming episodes. Coming up, we'll answer a question 317 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: about how to deal with a flaky friend and whether 318 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: flakiness means the end of a friendship. But first this break. 319 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 3: And we're back with a question from Nick about a 320 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 3: flaky friend. 321 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: My name is Nick from Los Angeles, California. So my 322 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: question is regarding a friendship. I have a friend I've 323 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: known for probably about eight years or so, and we 324 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: hang off sort of semi regularly, maybe once a month, 325 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: once every two months or so. Every time that we're 326 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: together or he seems to be enjoying himself. It seems 327 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: like we get along really well. But for some reason, 328 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: I've noticed that I'm always the one who has to 329 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: make the plans, and I find that he'll often cancel 330 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: or reschedule right at the last minute. So I'm wondering 331 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: if I should take this as a hint that he 332 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: doesn't want to continue the friendship, and if so, would 333 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: it be best to just confront him directly and ask 334 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: him about this, or should I just simply stop trying 335 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: to make plans? 336 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: Thanks so much interesting. I think this comes up quite 337 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: a bit in friendship. 338 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 3: It does this question of who's initiating and do I matter? 339 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: And are we both as invested in this friendship as 340 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: the other person is. I think here Nick said they've 341 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: been friends for eight years, and it sounds like the 342 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 3: friend puts in the effort to get together about what's 343 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 3: a month, which, by the way, for eight years. I 344 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 3: don't think that's insignificant. 345 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: No, that's a lot, right. 346 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 3: I don't think that's a question of whether the friend 347 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 3: enjoys hanging out with him, because the friend would not 348 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: get together that much over this long period of time 349 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: if he didn't enjoy hanging out with him. 350 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just some friendships are like this, where there's 351 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: an imbalance of who initiates and who is the glue 352 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: that brings people together. It doesn't necessarily mean that the 353 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: friend is not interested in the friendship, because, as you say, 354 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 2: he's showing up regularly, and that shows that he values 355 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: the friendship and enjoys spending time together. 356 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: And so it's tricky because it is frustrating when you 357 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 3: have to initiate every time, and when someone cancels and 358 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 3: then you feel like you're not a priority. And maybe 359 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 3: you have tickets to a concert and they canceled the 360 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 3: last minute, or reservations at a restaurant. But I think 361 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: that what Nick needs to think about is that we 362 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: have different kinds of dynamics with different friends, and people 363 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 3: have different personalities, and I think Nick has to really 364 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: decide if his enjoyment and connection with this person is 365 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: worth the inconvenience because this person comes with his quality. 366 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 3: I always say, you can't order people up all acart. 367 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 3: There are no substitutions. You take them as they are 368 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 3: and you enjoy the meal, or you just don't order 369 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 3: the meal. And I think he has to decide do 370 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: I want to keep ordering this meal? Is that worth 371 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 3: it to me? 372 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 2: So I have this personality framework that I created, the 373 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: four Tendancies, that divides people into four tendancies, and one 374 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: is the rebel. And something that is a very typical 375 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: of rebels other people sometimes as well, but very typical 376 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: of rebels is that they really dislike having things on 377 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: their calendar and they will often cancel even if they 378 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: want to do something. They want to see you, they 379 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: enjoy hanging out with you, they do want to go 380 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: to that concert, but they just really dislike the feeling 381 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: of being expected to go someplace and having it on 382 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 2: their calendar. And this is helpful to Nick because if 383 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: that's true, don't take it personally, as you say, this 384 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 2: is just something that is on the menu. It doesn't 385 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 2: reflect on their friendship, and so it's just something to 386 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: take into account as Nick makes plans. Sometimes with a 387 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 2: rebel or people like this, it's easier to keep things 388 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: open and more free flowing, so the person has a 389 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 2: greater sense of freedom and choice. So you would say 390 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: something like, oh, I'm thinking of going on a hike 391 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 2: Saturday morning, let me know if you want to join, 392 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: or it could be fun to get drinks at the 393 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: new bar. I'm getting a group together. You can come 394 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: if you want, and keeping it open like that. That 395 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: tends to work better for people who are rebels. 396 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 3: And so I think what we're saying is the friend 397 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 3: is who he is, and sometimes we want to change 398 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 3: the friend, but maybe we need to think about how 399 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 3: we're going to bilt it on our side. So what 400 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: is our advice. Our advice is, don't take it personally. 401 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: It doesn't sound like he doesn't like you, and at 402 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 3: the same time, manage your expectations. Don't count on this 403 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 3: person not canceling and maybe even have a backup plan. 404 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 3: Don't buy nonrefundable tickets unless you want to go by yourself, 405 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 3: or maybe you have another friend who wants to sub 406 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 3: in at the last minute. 407 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: Right right, And remember what you value about the person, 408 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: and also keep in mind, this is the friend I have. 409 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: We have many different kinds of friends. With my marriage. 410 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 2: I often say to myself when I'm thinking about something 411 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 2: that I don't particularly appreciate about my husband, Jamie, is 412 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: that's not the guy I'm married. We get different things 413 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: from different relationships. And so again it's as you were saying, 414 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: you have to think about, well is this trade off 415 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: worth it to me? Right? 416 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 3: And I like, that's not the guy I'm married. That's 417 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 3: not the friend I have. So it doesn't mean that 418 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 3: the friend isn't a good friend, just like you love 419 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: your husband, but there are certain things that that's just 420 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 3: not the guy you married. That's just not the friend 421 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: you have. And so part of that is accepting that 422 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 3: in this friendship you're going to have to be doing 423 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 3: the work. And if the friendship isn't worth your doing 424 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: the heavy lifting, that's something that you need to evaluate. 425 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 3: But again, it sounds like you value this person, and 426 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: if you can and accept that this is who he is, Like, 427 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 3: some people are just really messy. Yes, I see this 428 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 3: in couples all the time, where somebody's like, but this 429 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: person leaves the bedroom really messy, and that means they 430 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 3: don't respect me and they don't care about what's important 431 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 3: to me. They really have trouble not being messy. Yes, 432 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 3: and it sounds like this friend really has trouble not 433 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 3: canceling plans. So this is again no substitutions. This is 434 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: the friend that he is, and that's where you have 435 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 3: to evaluate whether that is enough for you. 436 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 2: So Nick asked, should he talk to his friend about it? 437 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: What do you think? 438 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 3: I think that he can talk to his friend once 439 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 3: and say, when you cancel, it makes me feel, however 440 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 3: it makes him feel, but I would not expect any change. 441 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 3: So I think it's worth mentioning because it's important in 442 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 3: friendships to be open and honest. But the friend might 443 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 3: say something like, oh, I'm really sorry, I'll try not 444 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 3: to do that anymore, but don't expect that to happen. 445 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 3: It sounds like this is just something about the friend 446 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: and that's how he is, and it's worth mentioning. Just 447 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 3: so he knows, and maybe he can make an effort, 448 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 3: but I think it's going to be really hard for 449 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 3: him to make a substantial change. 450 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 2: On a slightly different note, I would say, Nick, give 451 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: credit to yourself and recognize the value to yourself and 452 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 2: to others that you're doing by making the effort to 453 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 2: strengthen bonds. That takes time and energy and effort, and 454 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 2: it's really really valuable. The people who do the work 455 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: of friendship are really important. And it reminds me of 456 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: this beautiful passage from Gertrude Stein's brilliant The Autobiography of 457 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: Alice B. Toklas, and she's talking about Guilloma Paulinaire and 458 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: she wrote, the death of Guilloma Paulinaire at this time 459 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 2: made a very serious difference to all his friends. Apart 460 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 2: from their sorrow at his death, it was the moment 461 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 2: just after the war when many things had changed and 462 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: people naturally fell apart. Guillom would have been a bond 463 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 2: of union. He always had a quality of keeping people together, 464 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: and now that he was gone, everybody ceased to be friends. 465 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: Having that quality of keeping people together is really really important. 466 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think especially when so many people are 467 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 3: saying I want more connection. Sometimes part of getting that 468 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 3: connection isn't about keeping score about who's doing more. It's 469 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 3: about if you want that connection be the glue. It's 470 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 3: not a contest. 471 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 2: Coming up what to do when your partner is less 472 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 2: excited about a major life change than you are. But 473 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: first this. 474 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 3: Brick, and now we're back to answer a question about 475 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 3: a relationship and a big life change. Since you asked, 476 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: here's the letter, and this person has to be anonymous. 477 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 3: It goes like this. My husband and I have a 478 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 3: ten month old son. My husband was a very nervous 479 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 3: and somewhat reluctant new father. Mourning the loss of our 480 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 3: lives is a twuesome. We had been married for twelve 481 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 3: years before we had our son, so it's definitely been 482 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: an adjustment. Our home situation is also a bit different 483 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 3: than most. I work two full time jobs by choice, 484 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 3: and my husband is a craftsman who only occasionally does 485 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: projects for pay. Usually he works on home improvement tasks 486 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: and he manages all the household tasks. He is slowly 487 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: warming to the baby, but he still does not engage 488 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 3: much with him. He'll offer to take the baby for 489 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: an afternoon on weekends, but he'll usually play a video 490 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 3: game while the baby plays on the floor quite happily. Thankfully. 491 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: He will give bottles and change diapers, but he doesn't 492 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 3: hold the baby, read to the baby, talk to the baby, etc. 493 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 3: I see my friend's husbands engaging with their kids, and 494 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 3: I get both jealous and afraid that my husband will 495 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 3: never be that way with our son. I don't know 496 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 3: whether to be concerned or just let him develop his 497 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 3: relationship in his own way. 498 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: Wow. Well, the obvious thing to note here is they 499 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 2: are going through a huge change as a family. They 500 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: had been married for twelve years as a twosome. Now 501 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,239 Speaker 2: there's a baby. She describes her husband as nervous and 502 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: reluctant now it's happening. He works from home, and now 503 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: there's a baby at home. That is just a lot 504 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: of change. And it doesn't sound from her question that 505 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: this is an issue of domestic labor. It's really about 506 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: his response to this very significant change in the family exactly. 507 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 3: It sounds like he's managing all the household tasks. That's 508 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 3: not the issue that we hear so much about in 509 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: this case. It's more about he's having trouble adjusting to this, 510 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 3: And it's interesting because I think with mothers sometimes we 511 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: feel a lot of shame around talking about postpartum adjustment 512 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: or if we don't bond right away with the baby. 513 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 3: But there is some room, there are support groups for that. 514 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 3: But for men who in general often feel I have 515 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: to be strong or I can't admit that I'm struggling 516 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: with something, sounds like he's not able to say that, 517 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: or there isn't space for the two of them yet 518 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 3: they haven't created it to really talk about what is 519 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: this like for you? What is it like being a 520 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: new parent for each of us, and what are we 521 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: struggling with as we adjust to this new situation. 522 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 2: Well, especially if you weren't particularly ready to let go 523 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: of the previous life, you want to make room for 524 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: his feelings, to allow him to grieve the real loss 525 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 2: of the freedom the different kind of adult life that 526 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: you can have. Also, some people just really aren't baby people, yes, 527 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 2: and they get much more engaged with an older child. 528 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 2: So that's just one thing that this may also change 529 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: as your child is growing. There's so much pressure on 530 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: parents to immediately bond. Not everybody immediately bonds, but bonding 531 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 2: can happen along the way in many different ways. 532 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: And she said, he's slowly warming to the baby. So 533 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 3: sometimes it just takes time. And there's this magical version 534 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 3: of you're going to see your baby and you're going 535 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 3: to immediately bond and it's all going to be great, 536 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 3: But we forget there's so much more work. You're not sleeping, 537 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 3: you've lost your freedom, your marital relationship has changed. This 538 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 3: is huge, and so you're going to be dealing with 539 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 3: a lot of things at once. It might take several 540 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 3: months for you to really start to get to know 541 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: the baby, get to know yourself as a parent. And 542 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 3: it sounds like he's needing that space. But he is 543 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 3: moving in that direction. 544 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 2: Well, he's engaging. He's feeding the baby, he's changing diapers, 545 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: so he takes care of the baby. So he is engaging. 546 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: But as she says, he's slowly warming. 547 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: So what is our advice. I think the first thing 548 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: is open up a compassionate dialogue. She can say something 549 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: to him like, hey, I know this is a big adjustment. 550 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 3: How is it going for you? And to even say 551 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: something to make it okay for him to be struggling. 552 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 3: It's okay if you're struggling. We're all struggling. This is 553 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 3: really hard. Can we talk about it so that he 554 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 3: knows that she wants him to share what's going on 555 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 3: for him, And she might even say, I want you 556 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 3: to share what's going on so we can stay connected 557 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 3: as a couple, because he's probably missing the couple element 558 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 3: of the two of them. They had twelve years together 559 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 3: and now there's a big change with that. 560 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of the couple element, another thing to do 561 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: is really try to carve out time for adult pleasure. 562 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 2: Can you preserve part of what your life was like 563 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: before the baby came, so you still do feel you're 564 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 2: having the kinds of fun sometimes that you were having before. 565 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: It's not all been swept away. 566 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,719 Speaker 3: And I think the more anxiety that she feels around 567 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 3: his not bonding, the more pressure he's going to feel 568 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 3: to bond. And sometimes you just need to say, you 569 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 3: know what, We're going to go out for two hours 570 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 3: and we're going to go take a walk and we're 571 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 3: going to. 572 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 2: Go have dinner. 573 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 3: You have a change of identity as parents, and so 574 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 3: can you remember who you were together before you had 575 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 3: the baby? And I think when she starts to futurize 576 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 3: or catastrophize around I'm worried he's never going to bond 577 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 3: with the baby. When you allow more space for the 578 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 3: two of you to be a little bit who you 579 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 3: were before you had the baby, I think that you're 580 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 3: going to see more movement without all of the pressure. 581 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: Right well, and another thing to keep in mind is 582 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: trying not to criticize him for the way that he's 583 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: doing things. He's playing video games while the baby's right 584 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 2: next to him, also playing happily. But the more that 585 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 2: he can co but in his own way, of course, 586 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: as long as it's not something that's actually dangerous, let 587 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 2: him do it in his own way. Sometimes we want 588 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 2: to give a lot of direction for the sidelines, but 589 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: then that often makes people just want to give up 590 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 2: or say, well, I'm not doing it the right way, 591 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: I'm not doing it your way, so I don't want 592 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 2: to do it at all, And so let him do 593 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 2: it his own way so that he has a feeling 594 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: that he's being the kind of parent he chooses to be. 595 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: You don't want him to feel judged for the way 596 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: that he's behaving or, as you say, as he's feeling. 597 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 3: Right, they'll each have their own parenting style. I think 598 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 3: sometimes parents feel well, I read in a parenting book. 599 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 3: Yes you both have to do this. Yes, be the 600 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 3: parent that you want to be with your kid. What 601 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 3: is your organic, natural way of engaging with your child 602 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: that's going to be much more important. That ties into 603 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 3: this idea. We talked about levity earlier with a different letter. 604 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: I think levity goes a long way. So sometimes everything 605 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 3: feels so stressful and curious when your new parents and 606 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 3: you're scared and what does this noise mean? What does 607 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 3: this crime mean? You don't know and you've never done 608 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 3: this before. So sometimes you can joke round about how 609 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 3: tired you are, see the humor and these kind of 610 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 3: ridiculous moments that you find yourself in. 611 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I always remind myself that mishaps often make 612 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: the best memories, and something like the diaper explosion might 613 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: seem like very bad right now, but it will be 614 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: something that you laugh about later. Yeah, and if you 615 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: can try to laugh about it now. But we want 616 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: to hear from you. What other insights did we miss? 617 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: Have you dealt with the situation like this? This comes 618 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: up in a lot of different forms. Maybe it's a 619 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: new parent, or it's a similar situation you both have 620 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 2: moved to a house with a lot of new responsibilities, 621 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 2: or you're slowing down at work and your partner isn't yet, 622 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 2: or you're leaving a city that you love to move 623 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: to a new city with your partner and you don't 624 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 2: feel the same way about that. 625 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 3: Or even like getting a dog, one partner really wanted 626 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 3: a dog and the other person really wasn't so sure. 627 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: And what do you do when one person is more 628 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: eager for a big change and the other one is 629 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 3: more reluctant or less ready. We want to hear what 630 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 3: your experiences have been with that situation, so tell us 631 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 3: at the Since You askepodcast dot com. 632 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 2: And then before we go, are you ready to give 633 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 2: some advice? Here is a question to ponder. We will 634 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: discuss it in the next episode, and we would love 635 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts. It's from Raya and it goes 636 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 2: like this. 637 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 5: I've been having more of a moral dilemma recently in 638 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 5: my relationship and I would love for your advice on 639 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 5: the situation. So for context, I've been dating my boyfriend 640 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 5: for a little over four months now, in the very 641 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 5: early stages of him and I his roommate and best 642 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 5: friend let's call him. Jack was seeing my roommate. About 643 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 5: one week into my boyfriend and I officially dating, Jack 644 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 5: cheated on my roommate. It was a very messy breakup, 645 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 5: as most cheating related breakups are, because my roommate found 646 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 5: texts between Jack and the girl let's call her Carly, 647 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 5: in which it was very clear that Carly knew my 648 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 5: roommate was in the picture, yet proceeded anyway. Aside from 649 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,959 Speaker 5: being absolutely devastating to my friend and roommate, the impact 650 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 5: of Jack and Carly's actions completely changed the dynamic of 651 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 5: our friendships and my living situation uncomfortable, and to this 652 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 5: day has been a strain on my relationship with my boyfriend. 653 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 5: After things happened, Jack and Carly kept seeing each other 654 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 5: in secret, but recently they've become more serious and have 655 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 5: started to hang out with our friends and are always 656 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 5: at the house whenever I go to see my boyfriend. 657 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 5: Jack has yet to own up to his actions or 658 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 5: apologize for the impact it had on me, but Carly 659 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 5: recently reached out trying to make amends. She has expressed 660 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 5: interest in taking responsibility for her actions, but also said 661 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 5: that she would like to get to know me when 662 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 5: I am ready to. I have no interest whatsoever in 663 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 5: making amends or getting to know her, but my boyfriend 664 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 5: has been pushing me to forgive and forget. My question 665 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 5: is how do I reduce the strain that this has 666 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 5: on my relationship without feeling like I am compromising on 667 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 5: my moral values? 668 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: Oof. 669 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: That is a messy situation. 670 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: That's a tough one. Yeah, it's confusing. Everybody's so connected 671 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: to everybody else. There's a lot to think about it 672 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: in a lot going on. 673 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 3: So we want to hear what you all think about 674 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 3: this question because we're going to tackle it next time. 675 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 3: Think about what your advice might be and we will 676 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 3: discuss it. 677 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: That is it for today, Since You Ask Hers, We 678 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: really want you to weigh in. You are a big 679 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 2: part of this show. To get in touch, go to 680 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: the Since You askpodcast dot com, follow us on each 681 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 2: of our social media accounts, or check the show notes. 682 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 3: And if any of our discussions today have struck a 683 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 3: chord with you, we'd love to hear how it was 684 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 3: helpful for you or for someone in your life. 685 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 2: And remember, whether this podcast changes your life or just 686 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: makes you laugh, We're glad you're here. If you enjoyed 687 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: today's show. Please tell your friends. Word of mouth really 688 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 2: does help people discover a new show, and if you're 689 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: so inclined, please take a moment to rate or review 690 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 2: the show. It really does make a huge difference. 691 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: Since you asked, is for entertainment purposes only and isn't 692 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: a substitute for professional advice. By sending us your question, 693 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: you're agreeing we may use it on the show and 694 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: edit it for length or clarity.