1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show, a production of Shondaland 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: You know when you meet someone and you connect immediately. 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: The stars truly had a lie. As the door is closing, 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 2: He's like, what do you mean you're going to come 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: to see one of the shows? You are going to 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 2: be in them? The doors closed and the train pulled off, 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: and I was like, what did that white man just say? 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. I'm 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: Laverne Cox. 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I think it's so important to know your history, your pursy, 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: to know those who have come before you. 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: Who have paved a path for. 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: You to walk, To know that history and to celebrate it. 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: To on her Edge today will be a history lesson 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: with the one and only Connie Flemming, the Incomparable, the 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 1: Inimitable aka Connie Girl. Flemming is a legend and icon 18 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: of New York City nightlife. She is one of the 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: original boy Bar beauties and if you do not know 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: boy Bar, check out our show notes. She is a 21 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: runway model and has been photographed by Scovulo, Stephen Maizell 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: and others. She has walked the runways of Terry Muglair 23 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: and Vivian Westwood. In fact, some of the most iconic 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: runway walks ever. She delivered to us in Terry Muglair 25 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 1: shows in the early nineteen nineties, and she has set 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: the tone at some of New York's most exclusive nightclubs 27 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: as one of the most discerning door persons in the 28 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: history New York City nightlife. In fact, she still calls 29 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: herself the doorbitch. Please enjoy part one of my conversation 30 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: with the Legend, the icon, the one and only Connie Flemming. 31 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: Connie Fleming, Welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling today? 32 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm feeling well, trying to get over the door bitch 33 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: seasonal coal from being outside. I have the sniffles, but 34 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: they're kind of going away, fingers crossed. 35 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: I love that you call yourself doorbitch. What doors are 36 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: you working now? Connie? 37 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: At the Standard le Bete and at our sister next 38 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: door top of the Standard gorgeous? 39 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: So okay, Oh, I have so much to talk about. 40 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. I'm excited, I'm nervous, 41 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: you icon, legend, just everything, Just so you know, so, 42 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: I am wearing look at what I'm wearing. 43 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: No, you are wearing that. 44 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm wearing this for the listeners. I'm wearing a blazer 45 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 1: from Terry Muglaier's first Coutur collection Fall nineteen ninety two 46 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: that Connie Fleming. Connie herself wore in the show. Her 47 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: has had lacing in the front. This particular piece actually 48 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: can be seen in the Brooklyn exhibit of mister Muglair's 49 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: work that's at the Brooklyn Museum right now. I just 50 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: wanted to wear this and honor of you. I can't 51 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: even part of me can't even believe like I'm talking 52 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: to you. I know I've known you for years, but 53 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm I don't know, We've never really sat down and talked. No, 54 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: And I'm so just honored to have this moment with you. 55 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: I really am. 56 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: Thank you and thank you for all of your work. 57 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: And also, before we get into it all, I want 58 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: to thank you for coming to Cody's memorial and speaking. 59 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: It was so important for the full canon of her life. 60 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I initially wanted to start with nineteen 61 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: ninety two, but why why don't we start with Cody? Okay, 62 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: I got to know Cody when I was at Lucky 63 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: Chang's and for those listening, Cody Leone, Cody Ravioli, New 64 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: York City legend, Art school Girls of Doom on YouTube. 65 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: For those people who their YouTube videos so on MTV 66 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: back in the day, what was it. 67 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: Called liquid television? Television? Yes, eon flat. 68 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: In the early nineties, think called liquid television. Do you 69 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: want to tell the kids? Why not? 70 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: Do you know? 71 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: Tell the kids? 72 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: It was sort of like an extension of sort of 73 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: that Simpsons cartoons for adults. 74 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: It was after midnight on MTV. It was called liquid television, 75 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: and part of liquid television was like a skit show 76 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: called Art school Girls of Doom with Cody Leone and 77 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: Gina what was Gina's last name? 78 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: Gina Vitro now a veterinarian. 79 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: Wow. 80 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: We were all three roommates together on Sixth Street and 81 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: Avenue B. 82 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: Tell me okay, so okay you, Gina and Cody were 83 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: all roommates. 84 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: Yes, what year? Roughly ninety ninety one. We all came 85 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: together at Boy Bar and then we all sort of 86 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: were like reaching out, We found each other, and we 87 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: all transitioned together. I felt so lucky and so graced 88 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: to be with three other women in this really difficult 89 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: time because we would go out and if you found 90 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: a therapist, we would come back and tell the collective. 91 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: If you found this, we would come back and tell 92 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: the collective. And we all were there for each other, 93 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: pushed each other, gave each other grace in such a 94 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: hard time. And I am so thankful. 95 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: And what was hard for you? What was hard about 96 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: that time transitioning in ninety ninety. 97 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: Two, everything, employment, housing, getting the right therapy, not being 98 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: busted and disgusted. We were there for each other. We 99 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: sort of made sure that we didn't let the world 100 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: pull us down. Because Gina and I were then working 101 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 2: at the phone sex line. We were eight hundred girls 102 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: and we were the switchboard. 103 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: I love it. 104 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: And we found employment, and then we sort of pushed 105 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: each other. We pushed each other with our medications and 106 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: finding a good androchronologist. 107 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: Back then. Doctor Rish was the doctor for a lot 108 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: of the girls. 109 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: Back then. 110 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: He was my first doctor in nineteen ninety eight. He 111 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: was a plastic surgeon on the Upper West Side. Did 112 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: you go to doctor Rish or no? 113 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: Was that I went to Fleischmann? Okay? 114 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: I didn't know Fleischman, Okay? 115 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: Was it on Central park West in the seventies. Yes, 116 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: so he took over for doctor Fleischmann because God, that's 117 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: where I had my implants done because I went to him, 118 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: I want to say, maybe in eighty seven to do 119 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: hormones and I went on the wrong day at the 120 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: wrong time. And that was the other thing finding healthcare. 121 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: You had to go on the right day. If the 122 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: black nurse wasn't there or the Asian worst nurse wasn't there, 123 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: turn around and leave. 124 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: Wow. Well my understanding was with doctor Rish at the 125 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: time when I was ninety eight, is that the only 126 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: time he saw the trans girls was on Wednesday. 127 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: Yes, same here, Yeah, you had. 128 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: To go on Wednesday. So I think like it was 129 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: in the waiting room, girl, the waiting room with everything 130 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: the stories that you would hear. 131 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: I saw in that waiting room. 132 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: Yes, girl, it was really everything so access. And then 133 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: back in the day too, there were a lot of 134 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: girls who would get I mean there was there was 135 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: Ralph and this is the nineties Ralph, you know Ralph. 136 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: So a lot of the girls would get hormones from 137 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,119 Speaker 1: Ralph and just from random people who procured them from wherever. 138 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: So we would kind of guess buy them on the street, 139 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: you know, yeah. 140 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: The black market. And I remember International Crisis. 141 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: Which is the International Crisis. The legendary icon trans woman 142 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: performer who is one of Salvador Dali's music is trans Women. 143 00:08:54,440 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 2: And Crisis would have Roamy Hogg get the German hormones. 144 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: The German shots, girl, Yeah. 145 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: And the call would go out and you had to 146 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: get to Crisis's house at a certain time to get 147 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 2: at least two boxes. 148 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: So, for those who don't know the German hormones allegedly 149 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: were you would be applaud. I don't know what other length. 150 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: You would be cut overnight with the German hormone. 151 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: Now, the mensises would follow you, screw pheromones. The mensises 152 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: would be after you on the street. The minute the 153 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: needle came out. They would be, hey, how you doing. 154 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: I never got the German hormones. Those German hormones turned 155 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: the girls. And I think there was something about because 156 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: there was girls in the nineties were so beautiful, and 157 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if it was the German it was German 158 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: shots that were like just turning the girls out. 159 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 2: And it was the wild, wild West, and we were 160 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 2: sort of left to our own devices to find our 161 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: own levels. But that collective of myself, Gina and Cody. 162 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: We had doctors I can't remember. Tina Wheeler was myself 163 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 2: and Gina's therapist, but there was another doctor that I found. 164 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: How wonderful that you were going to therapy because a 165 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: lot of the girls didn't go to therapy back then. 166 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: It was a standard of care. And I can't remember 167 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: the therapist's name, but you had to go through a 168 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: certain time before the further steps of transition, whether it's 169 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: the medical or whatever. And we went through everything in 170 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: her office. It was just towards the end that I 171 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: was seeing her and it was the end of our 172 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: session and she's like, Oh, I have to get ready 173 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: for the children, and I'm like children And this was 174 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: like ninety two ish, maybe ninety three, and I think 175 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: she was one of the first to start with children 176 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: in therapy to set them on the road. Wow. 177 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: People act like trans care for kids is something new, 178 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: but she was doing it in nineteen ninety three, ninety two. 179 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: I was so taken aback. I fell into tears in 180 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: the elevator going downstairs because I was like, have we 181 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: come this far that we are going to allow a 182 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: child that comes to you in all honesty and all 183 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 2: sincerity that this is what is happening to me and 184 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: I can voice it. It just took me out for weeks. 185 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, maybe the world will 186 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: change a sentilla. 187 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: And what if I had that when I was a child. 188 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: Before we leave Cody favorite Cody memory for you, having 189 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: known her, I just want, I do want to take 190 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: a moment. She's such an icon and I'm just so 191 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: glad I got to know her. And people should know 192 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: there's so many icons and legends that we don't know, Yes, 193 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: who we should know? Who shaped New York culture? Who 194 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: just changed people's lives? I mean, and so much of 195 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: trans and LGBTQ culture. It's oral traditions, right and having 196 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: that trans mother, having that that girlfriend who showed you 197 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: the rope so you went through it together, that kind 198 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: of chosen family. So for those people who don't know Cody, 199 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: go watch Our Schoolgirls of Doom. But what would you 200 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: want to say to people and about who Cody was? 201 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: Just her loving heart Back when we were roommates, there 202 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: was always this sort of melancholy about her. And then 203 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: one day I was doing the door somewhere and she 204 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: pulled up because she wanted to say hi, and this 205 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: guy got out of the car and I was like, 206 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: it's her boyfriend. She's like, she's like, oh, hi, how 207 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: are you? And I want to introduce you to my son. 208 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, you're kind of like and 209 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: she's like, no, this is my biological son. Yeah, And 210 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 2: I was like, exqueeze me. 211 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: Just to clarify. Before she transitioned, she had, I believe 212 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: was three sons with her, like high school girlfriend or something. 213 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, pressure from her parents to sort of be heteronormative. 214 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: Right weeks later, we sat and we talked and she 215 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: told me because we only knew little snippets here and 216 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: there of what was happening, and she told me about 217 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: how she went to Vegas to try to make a 218 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: better life for the whole family, all of her, her 219 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: kids and their mom because she was a genius sort 220 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,359 Speaker 2: of Cyndi lauper impersonator. And she went to Lakaja Fall, Vegas, 221 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: blah blah, built her career, built her name, and came 222 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: back and both families had shut her out of the 223 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: children's lives. And we were talking and then I turned 224 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: to her and said, no matter what, they did that 225 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 2: blood connection. They came and sought you out, and we 226 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: looked at each other and she was like, you know what, 227 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: You're right. All of the things that happened after the 228 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: separation kind of have to melt away, and we now 229 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: have to reconnect and heal wounds and become a family. 230 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so let's pass forward. I'm gonna jump around 231 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. Two ninety two. So I'm a mooglair 232 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: file and a bit of a historian. But nineteen eighty two, I, 233 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: as I said, it was his first couture show. It 234 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: was the year that the first Fragrance Angel came out, 235 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: and it was a year that Too Funky came out. 236 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: And Too Funky is how I discovered Terry Muglair. I 237 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: was obsessed with the video, and you were in the 238 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: Too Funky video, but I did not know in the 239 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: version that was on MTV and VH one, your face 240 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: was not shown. The iconic beaded red cowboy chaps, I 241 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: mean iconic look and I want to talk some more 242 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: about that, but I didn't know. I didn't see your face. 243 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: And then it wasn't until years later that I knew 244 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: that that was you in the video and I just 245 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: kind of felt cheated, honestly, not knowing. I mean, nineteen 246 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: ninety two, I was in Indiana, I was in college. 247 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: It was a year after I graduated from high school. 248 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: And then I moved to New York in nineteen ninety three, 249 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: and I just felt like my life would have been 250 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: so different if I had known that there was a black 251 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: trans woman in George Michael's Too Funky video. I feel 252 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: anger and sadness and a lot of things not knowing that. 253 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: And years later I saw on mister Muglair's director's cut, 254 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: and you open that video and we see your face. 255 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: And then and then when I went to when I 256 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: was in Paris a year ago and I saw mister 257 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: Muglair's show, I was, you know, so excited just to 258 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: see the exhibit. And I was going through the exhibit 259 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: looking for you. You know, I saw the pieces, but 260 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: I didn't and I didn't see your face in that exhibit. 261 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: Maybe I didn't see that in one of the videos 262 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: of the shows. Maybe you were there, but I did 263 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: not see you. And I was looking for you, and 264 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: I was looking for your face. And then I when 265 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: and when In opened the show opened in Brooklyn, I 266 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: don't know if you know Casey Keedwallader, who's the Mouclair 267 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: creative director. Now I said, I said to Casey, I 268 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: was like, where's Connie, I said to Kate's where's Connie's face. 269 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: Part of it is because we didn't see your face 270 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: in George Michael's version of the video. And then you're like, 271 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: not in the in the exhibit, but in I want 272 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: to know what your life was like ninety ninety two. 273 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you've told us a little bit about like 274 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: being in transition, but being in this huge video, but 275 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: your face isn't shown walking for Muglaire in these clothes. 276 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean, the clothes are so exquisite, the construction, the sumptuous, 277 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: assumptuous and powerful, and then the drama that you brought 278 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: to the runway. 279 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: Okay, history, talk to me history. At the beginning of 280 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: the second day, when I got there, George Michael comes, 281 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 2: we were filming my part, and then the sort of 282 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: clash up the Titans started to happen because Terry wanted 283 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: the backstage bit and then for me to come out 284 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 2: on the runway so that you could see that pan 285 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 2: up shot. Yes, fight happens. 286 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: So for those who don't know, a little bit of 287 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: a backstory. The two Funky video with a video that 288 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: I was done for charity for them to raise money 289 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 1: for AIDS research, and everyone was donating their time and 290 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: apparently they had gone over budget. It was already over 291 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: a million dollars after the first day and people were 292 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: sort of freaking out, and George Michael was like, we're done. 293 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: Mister Muglair was like, We're not done. And then a 294 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: fi happened. Girl, Yeah, so this is why, and so 295 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: this is the fight she's alluding to. Yes, so on. 296 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 2: And Terry wanted atmosphere and then to use the shot 297 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: of me backstage as my face shot. We go to lunch, 298 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: we come back. Terry is like directing all of the 299 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 2: racks out and he was like, okay, we're leaving, and 300 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 2: we all turned to each other and like wait, what's 301 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 2: what what what? 302 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: And taking the clothes with us. 303 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 2: Yes, and then we're all gathering our stuff and Linda 304 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 2: and Vachalisa comes over and says, Okay, are you going 305 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: to stay or are you going to leave? So we 306 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 2: were all like, okay, we're all going to leave. Linda 307 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: went back spoke with George we all met in the 308 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: middle and we all started to talk and say, you 309 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: know what, we are here for a larger cause. It 310 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: was ninety two. People were still dropping like flies. We 311 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: had all just come from funerals, all just come from 312 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 2: hospital rooms. I'll just come from waves of death and despair, 313 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: and we were trying to help. And both of them 314 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 2: felt their better angels and we started again. My face shot, 315 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: Terree wasn't going to give it up. He wanted it 316 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: for his version. 317 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 1: Yes, so he was committed to that. But for whatever 318 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: reason in George's verse, he didn't it. 319 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: Just he didn't have that face shot of me going 320 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: to the runway. 321 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: He just wanted that looked to be shot that way 322 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: and didn't get your face on the runway, or. 323 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 2: He wanted that pan upshot to be in shadow and 324 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: then I would lift my face at the end. But 325 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: we broke for lunch, so that shot wasn't taken. And 326 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 2: then the big clash of the Titans happened, so. 327 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: It was because we broke for lunch. This is good 328 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: to know. I'm feeling a little bit better about the erasure, 329 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: but still not a lot better. 330 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: I think what came out before that was the Soup Dragons. 331 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: The Soup Dragon's video came out and it was called 332 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: a fine thing. It was on heavy rotation. 333 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: Were you in that video as well? 334 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, I'm like maybe the second lead in that video, 335 00:20:53,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: and it's very Warhol Studio Factory vibe and Old Times 336 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: Square before it was Disney Fine. Okay, that was on 337 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 2: heavy rotation. But there was an objection because I was 338 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: in it, that it could not play in the afternoon 339 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 2: because I was trans and black. 340 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: This is on MTV. On MTV, I I'm like, I'm 341 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: looking at I just looked at you in the video. 342 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: It's like, who would even. 343 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 2: Know it was considered to be harmful for children, Like 344 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: they would even know? 345 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: That's what I'm like, You're walking and you're so chic 346 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: and you've got this pink in the headband work a work, honeywork. 347 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: It became a hit record, so they had to play 348 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: it off of Prime Time because it was being requested. 349 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: Everybody loved it. So I think once Too Funky came out, 350 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 2: I think that was also a thing that if you 351 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 2: put my face in it, it might be hampering in 352 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 2: when it can be played, how often it can be played. 353 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: But my question is we see Joey Arias and Lipsynca 354 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: their faces. 355 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: So it's not trans. Let it sink in not trans. 356 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: And by then my sort of insistence on not being 357 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 2: put into the drag category to make it easier for 358 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: the look of the moment, flavor of the moment, and 359 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 2: saying that I was trans gave me a reputation of 360 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: being difficult. 361 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: To insist that I'm not a drag queen, I'm a 362 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: trans woman. Yeah, gave you a difficult This is important. 363 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: This is what folks need to know. All the lovely 364 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: young models who are modeling now that this is what 365 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: the girls went through. Yeah, so you can walk runways now, 366 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: this is what the girls went through. After a tiny 367 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: little break, We've got so much more for you. Let's 368 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: get back to it. So you were not only a 369 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: trans model? Who was you know? They didn't know and 370 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: then they knew. But you're also a black model. And 371 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: Terry loved black models. He always used black models and 372 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: loved Can you tell us how how did you come 373 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: to my model for mister Muglare. 374 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: It was like, at the end maybe eighty nine, I 375 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,959 Speaker 2: had started to model for small designers in downtown New 376 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 2: York and the community and crisis. 377 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: International crisis. If you don't know her, google her, Get 378 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: your life to continue. 379 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 2: Crisis was like, you know what you are meant for this, 380 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 2: You are meant for it, even if you don't see 381 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 2: it for yourself, even if you are so within your 382 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 2: cocoon of growing up and being so tortured. I was afraid, 383 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: I was apprehensive. I was black and I was trans. 384 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 2: You know, my predecessor was Terry Toy, blonde, white and 385 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: blue wide, and they gave her grace me. 386 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: No. Terry Toy was a trans model who famously with 387 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: Steven Sprouse's Mused in the eighties. She modeled for several people, but. 388 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: Muclaire Chanelle Gautier. She went to Paris and she, like. 389 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: Push, was openly trans the whole time. 390 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 391 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: I think that's the difference because trans models have existed 392 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: throughout history, but we haven't always been able to be open, 393 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: and so Terry Toy really was a moment when a 394 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: model was able to be open. 395 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: Yes, and gave space and room for me. Because when 396 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 2: I went to Paris, that was like I was already 397 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: halfway through my transition and I felt so good. I 398 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: did not feel crazy, I did not feel unworthy. So 399 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 2: why why Because they were there to tear you down anyway, 400 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 2: So I'm not going to give this to you to 401 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: tear me down. 402 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. 403 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: So I'm on the danceport at the Paradise Garage and 404 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 2: this French gentleman comes over and says, do you model? 405 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I'm modeled for like, you know, downtown 406 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 2: New York while by very little things. It's like, well, 407 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 2: if you are ever in Paris, look me up. He 408 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: gave me his business card. My favorite song came on 409 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 2: Maybe Grace Pull Up to the Bumper or Yoko Ono 410 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 2: Walking on Thin Ice. It was one of those, and 411 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: I lost my mind and ran to the dance board 412 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 2: that morning. When I got home afternoon, I should say, 413 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: because we did close the joint at like eleven thirty twelve, 414 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: I could not find the card. So you know. Desmond Cadogan, yes, 415 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 2: also a Terry Muglair model News we had met and 416 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: he was like, you really have to meet Terry, you 417 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: really have to come to Paris. I told him about 418 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: this guy and he's like, well, what did he look like. 419 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: It's like he was French, dark hair, blah blah, and 420 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 2: it's like, okay, give me a minute. So a couple 421 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: of months went by and I worked with Danilo and 422 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 2: Billy Beyond, and that was the debut of Billy Beyond's 423 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: paper Lashes. 424 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: Wow, the Billy Beyond, the legendary makeup artist Danillo, legendary hairstyles. 425 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: For those people listening, let legendary, Like understand your history, okay, 426 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: go on. 427 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 2: So I took this wonderful picture. I can't remember the 428 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: name of the photographer, and I think Danilo showed that 429 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 2: to Terry. Cut to a couple of months later and 430 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: we are doing the first Suzanne barsh Love Ball and 431 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: I walked for body Map. So model for body Map 432 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,479 Speaker 2: went downstairs and there was Terry Desmond and I think 433 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 2: somebody else dragged me over it. This is Connie, this 434 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: is who we are talking about. It was like, oh, 435 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: now I get it. So a couple of months later 436 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: they call and ask for pictures. And then a couple 437 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 2: of months later I was on the plane going to Paris. 438 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: And this I think was your first show eighty nine, ninety. 439 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: Eighty nine, ninety Fall Winter. 440 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: Fall Winter. I'm trying to remember the look that you wore. 441 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 2: It was a chartruse, you know, those bell like blazer dresses. 442 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: Okay. 443 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: First time, I was like, okay, I will walk as 444 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: I think I should walk in high fashion parish. I 445 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: had three looks. First show I walk, I'm Munya, I 446 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: am Katushka, I am all of my heroes. And I 447 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: go backstage, break for lunch, come back. I have one outfit. 448 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: I was like, wait what. First I was disappointed, and 449 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: then I was like, you know what, screw them, screw you. 450 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: And I went out there in my one outfit and 451 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: I did everything and walk backwards and I walked backstage 452 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 2: and Terry is like, why didn't you do that in 453 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: the first place. That's what we wanted from you. We 454 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: wanted your energy, your Cleveland sort of kinetic energy. That's 455 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: what we wanted. That's what everybody was telling me about you. 456 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: And then you go and you do like what you 457 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: think is the. 458 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: Walk he led, Pat and he mom talks about it. 459 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: It's almost as it was like acting doing a Mooglership 460 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: because it shows were so theatrical. And what I love 461 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: about watching you walk in different shows of his is 462 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: that the walk was different every time because the look 463 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: was different. It was still Connie, but you it was acting, 464 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: it was performance. It was. It was drama everything. 465 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: Yes, Norma Desmond Sunset Boulevard. You could not be swallowed 466 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: because those looks could easily swallow you. Yes, because you 467 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 2: can see it on certain people where it swallows them. 468 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 2: You had to come out. 469 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: You had to wear the clothes, the clothes not wearing. 470 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,959 Speaker 2: You embody it and make it sing. 471 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you really did in such a beautiful way. 472 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: And you walked for several seasons from mister Mouglair. 473 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: I didn't know. 474 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: I just discovered recently that you were also roommates with 475 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: mister Pearl. And for those who don't know, mister Pearl 476 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: did all the Corse Tree for mister Mouglair. The story 477 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: of how you ended up with a cowboy look? Can 478 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: you just tell that story? In the two Funky video 479 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: what Connie's wearing is this red beaded cowboy look with chaps. 480 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: It's just it's so iconic. It's on exhibit in Brooklyn Museum. 481 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: It is one of the most iconic pieces of fashion 482 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: history ever. And she got to wear it. Can you 483 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: tell us how that happened? It's such a great story. 484 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 2: This was just before Cody moved in. Pearl had just 485 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: moved to New York. Had started to work with Newglare 486 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: and I think Galiano and certain other people. One of 487 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: my trips to Japan, there was a moscino sale and 488 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: I was always obsessed with that mosquito collection of the cowboy. 489 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: It was sort of Dallas and it was a beautiful 490 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: cowboy hat, and I was like, Oh, I'm going to 491 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 2: be in the desert in New Mexico. I'm going to 492 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: wear my cowboy hat. And I went to go shoot 493 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 2: with Terry in New Mexico. So I get out of 494 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: the trailer and Terry looks at me and you could 495 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: see the light bulb turn on. So I got back 496 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 2: to New York and Pearl had moved out, and moved 497 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: out he went around the corner basically, So the message 498 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: was to go over to Pearls. So I go over 499 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: to Pearls and pros like, Okay, this is what you're 500 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: going to wear. And I'm like, oh my god. 501 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: Was it already in the making. Was it just a 502 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: sketch at the time? What was when you? 503 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: I think Pearl had a copy of the sketch okay, 504 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 2: and it was supposed to be for Naomi, but Naomi 505 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: couldn't do the fittings because I was waiste training back then, 506 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: you know, I could sort of take the pressure because 507 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 2: they wanted it to be as close to nineteen a 508 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: nineteen inch waist as possible. I think we got to 509 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 2: maybe twenty three, twenty two something like that. Wow. Because 510 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: that's also another thing about too funky. I could not breathe. 511 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 2: The person who laced me up laced me up from 512 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: the top down. You're supposed to breathe shallow through the 513 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: top of your chest, but I couldn't do that. So 514 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 2: I was on all fours in between shots, trying to 515 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: keep my head up so that I wouldn't pass out. Okay, 516 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 2: so we're at. 517 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: This is I didn't know any of this. Thank you 518 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: for all these details. Girl, I'm living. I'm living. Okay, 519 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: go on. 520 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: We're at the fittings, and everybody chipped in who knew 521 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 2: how to stitch. I mean I even did a couple 522 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 2: of the hearts that were on the brim of the hat. 523 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: You did some of the beating yourself, and. 524 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: Then there would be notes, oh, take this off, make this, 525 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: do that. Because that was the other thing. The amazing 526 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: thing about Newclare, the way things would grow and come 527 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: together and flourish and blossom, because when you would go 528 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: for fittings, you would see it like, what the hell 529 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: is that? It's a cage? What are they going to 530 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 2: do with that? And then by the end the day 531 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 2: before the show, it was beauty. 532 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I think people should understand how intricate this is. 533 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 2: And also the level of innovation with fabrications, of shaping 534 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 2: and cutting. There's this wonderful gift from fit where it's 535 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 2: all of the pieces come together to make one of 536 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: those wonderful blazers, and they're like one hundred pieces and 537 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 2: they all like sort of come together in the cartoon 538 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 2: and you have this wonderful blazer that is structured in 539 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 2: a way that you can put it on and you 540 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 2: feel nuclearized and you feel powerful. You feel the care, 541 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: research and love for the craft twenty pieces to come 542 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: to make that one curve. 543 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: But it's genius though. The way it'll sit him on 544 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: the body, it's absolutely brilliant. I don't even know how 545 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: a mind would think, let me do this. He's a genius. 546 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 2: It was him and the women in the atalier, those seamstresses, 547 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: because that jacket I went in for the fitting and 548 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 2: they were like, and he's like, oh, let's put in 549 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 2: shoulder pads, and they all turned around and said no, mmm, 550 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: look at her in that jacket. She does not need 551 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: shoulder pads. And the way the sort of design just 552 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 2: came up like that, and I remember, I remember them 553 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: because it wasn't a real fitting unless you lost consciousness. 554 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 2: It wasn't It wasn't a good season at New Glare 555 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 2: if you did not pass the fuck out on the ped. 556 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: Stil because the corse tree was not fashion. I can't, 557 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: I can't do that. So you waist trained for a while. 558 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: How long did you do that? Because there's different things 559 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: about waste training, like right, is it safe? Is it whatever? 560 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: How long did you do that? Did you had to? 561 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: Were your organs rearranged? Did you have any negative health 562 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: outcomes from it? 563 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 2: Or are you just no, just a little bit of 564 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 2: scarring okay, which took a while, and like a cocoa butter, 565 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 2: you know, nightly. But then Lauren, the wonderful Lauren Pine, 566 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 2: who's also in Too Funky, when they measure her waist 567 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 2: and they smack her with the measuring tape, she was 568 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 2: more into it than any of us and would say, okay, 569 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: you're getting scarring, get a silk wrap and wrap it first, 570 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 2: and then put on the corset. Get cellophane wrap your 571 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 2: waist and then you know, because I wanted to have 572 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 2: that hour glass shape. Yes, and I'm sort of like 573 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 2: you know, and the girls now have to thank the 574 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 2: girls then for doing the hard work. Yes, of a 575 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: Brazilian butt lift and this and that and the sucking 576 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 2: and a poll money. 577 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: And I interviewed Honey de John last week and we 578 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: were talking about the before the Brazilian butt lift. Since 579 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: the sixties, the trans girls were getting silicone. Yeah everywhere 580 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: so face boo, bibbs hips, booty. 581 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome, Nicki minaj. 582 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: Okay, it's that time again. A lot more is coming 583 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: though without further ado. There's I want to take it 584 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: back to boy Bar. 585 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 2: Oh. 586 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: I love the story of how you ended up at 587 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: boy Bar. But so boy Bar was a legendary drag 588 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: cabaret on Saint Mark's Place from eight I think eighty 589 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: five five to ninety five or something, and you were 590 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: one of the original boy Bar beauties. Matthew Casten was 591 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: the brain child behind it and it was the shows 592 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: or just there's some some videos on YouTube, and they 593 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: were just iconic shows, and the boy Bar beauties were iconic. 594 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: There's some Wigstock the boy Bar beause being Wigstock, I 595 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: think in the Wigstock movie just for people to have 596 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: some references to go and look up. But talk to 597 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: us about boy Bar and what that experience was like. 598 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: There's so many wonderful stories. But that's where you came 599 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 1: out of your shell. 600 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: Yes, I would not have made it to Paris and 601 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 2: the Paris Runways if it wasn't for Boybar. It rebuilt me. 602 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 2: It rebuilt my because I was in a shell. 603 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: You were in Brooklyn, I mean just a little bit. 604 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: You were very bullied as a child, raised in Brooklyn 605 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 1: and finally found your way to New York antique boutique 606 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: Glamor Moore started going out and then one day you 607 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: met Matthew and he said he was going to be starting. 608 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 2: Yes, this cabaret, and we talked about fashion and everything. 609 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 2: You know when you meet someone and you connect immediately. Yes, 610 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 2: that's what happened that night. The stars truly had a line. 611 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: And the evening ended and we were going to the subway. 612 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: My train came first and I said, congratulations, I want 613 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: to come and see one of the shows, blah blah blah. 614 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 2: And as the door is closing, he's like, what do 615 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 2: you mean you're going to come to see one of 616 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 2: the shows? You are going to be in them? The 617 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 2: doors closed and the train pulled off, and I was like, 618 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 2: what did that white man just say? 619 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: But you had not been performing? 620 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 2: No? 621 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: No, so you had not been performing. And what I 622 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: what I know about you as a performer is like 623 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: cartwheels and splits, and like, where did all they come from? 624 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: Did you train as a dancer? Did you? I mean, 625 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: because you are you're a dancer. 626 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 2: I am a child of the Late late late late 627 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 2: late Late Show, all of the golden era of Hollywood musicals. 628 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 2: I watched intently because it was an escape from the 629 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 2: break daily and I sort of went into that world 630 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 2: and could dream and I danced around the living room 631 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 2: and it's like, oh I can do that, Oh I 632 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 2: can do that. Then started to watch The Share Show 633 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 2: and Carol Burnett and it was all of these sort 634 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 2: of touchstones of comedy and dance and performing that was 635 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 2: sort of inside of me. 636 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: You absorbed all of them, Yes, you absorbed all of them. 637 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: And then that first night at boybas Matthew pushes you 638 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: out and then it just all comes out. 639 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. But he literally had to push me out on 640 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: that stage. And then I hit the stage and the 641 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 2: spotlights hit me in the eyes and I couldn't see anybody, 642 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't see anybody. I can 643 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 2: do anything. 644 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: What did you do in your living room? Yeah? 645 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it all came pouring out. M A couple 646 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,959 Speaker 2: of months later, we were all famous below fourteenth Street, 647 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 2: and I was like, wait, you know, it was just 648 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 2: everything that I had loved that gave me joy and 649 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 2: allowed me to continue on in such a violent kind 650 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 2: of place, I could let it pour out and I 651 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 2: could give it to an audience, and in that time, 652 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 2: the audience really needed it because it was, you know, 653 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 2: the hide up the play. And I think why also 654 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 2: we connected was that it was live. We spoke to 655 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 2: what was happening daily in the news in the world, 656 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 2: and we sort of sent it up and lampooned it 657 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 2: and gave our audience some love, much needed love. 658 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: You have some videos of the Old Boy Boar shows, 659 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: and they were like so many different kinds of shows, 660 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: but love of them were parodies. There would be voiceover 661 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: of dialogue that you would live think to. There were themes. 662 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: They were crazy. I mean, I'm thinking space cunts is 663 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 1: that was that something that. 664 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 2: That was the brainchild of David Darrymple, famous wonderful designer, 665 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 2: and Mona Foot, our wonderful Mona Foot. That was their brain. 666 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 2: There was the sixties musical and it starred International Crisis 667 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:01,839 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ as superstar. 668 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: Yes, I heard about this one. 669 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 2: There was the Frankenstein Missus Frankenstein David Glyman Moore I 670 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 2: think was Frankenstein and I was the bride of Frankenstein. 671 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 2: Beetlejuice had come out and we had done this wonderful, 672 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 2: beautiful show that was sort of set in the waiting room. 673 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 2: When they die and they go to that waiting room. 674 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 2: It was all set in that waiting room, the Leona 675 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 2: Helmsley story when David was Leona Helmsley. It was just 676 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 2: like an incredible. 677 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: I love that we're talking about the specifics of this 678 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: show so that people can understand what I mean. It's 679 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: hard to quantify what it means when you're in the 680 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,959 Speaker 1: audience and you're experiencing culture being made. And I think 681 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: what folks should understand about Downtown Eats Village, New York 682 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: in the eighties. Is that culture or was being made 683 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: there that artist, major artist, Basquiad, Keith Haring, Madonna, Warhol, 684 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:10,720 Speaker 1: they were. 685 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 2: All David Bowie, David Bowie. 686 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,640 Speaker 1: They were going to these clubs and getting inspiration. Klaus Nomay. 687 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: There was a performance art thing going on. I think 688 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: of John Sex, you know, Pyramid and so there was 689 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 1: this art thing going on that was intersecting with Drag. 690 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 2: Lady Bunny and Happy Face and Taboo at the Pyramid. 691 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: And in the beginnings of WISDOC. 692 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 693 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, all major culture, major culture that shifted people and 694 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: brought community together. It was about community, but it was 695 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,800 Speaker 1: also culture being created that trickled up into higher culture 696 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: that trickled into museums. So when we talk about this 697 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: boy bar moment, it's important to understand it in a 698 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: cultural context of this is where people were going for 699 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: inspiration for fashion, inspiration for is the way a culture 700 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: was made. Yeah, what is the biggest takeaway for you 701 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: from the boy that boy Bar era. 702 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 2: It was such a special time and Matthew wanted to 703 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 2: take drag out of it, being sort of second class 704 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 2: citizen in the entertainment lexicon of that time. You wanted 705 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 2: us to be polished, beautiful and capable, capable of doing 706 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 2: not just lip sync, but am seeing and singing and 707 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 2: going out and making it a larger a larger voice 708 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 2: in the world. And was always so kind of protective 709 00:45:54,120 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 2: of us because what was happening outside was catastrophic and 710 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 2: we got to see our heroes before they passed, giving 711 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 2: me a view onto transness and it not being so 712 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:24,280 Speaker 2: far away, not being behind the looking glass. We got 713 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:30,359 Speaker 2: to witness what the world was and to turn it 714 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:35,239 Speaker 2: on its ear. What I carry away from that is 715 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 2: the importance of in the moment live performance. You are 716 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 2: there and you can connect and you can exchange with 717 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 2: a live audience, that exchange of laughter or applause when 718 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 2: you're in that moment, and to share it with that 719 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 2: audience that was so in need of relief and love. 720 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 2: That's what I cherished the most about it. 721 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that was everything right, That was everything 722 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,320 Speaker 1: that gave me my full entire life. Thank you, Connie. 723 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: It was so good that we had to make it 724 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: a two parter. There was so much information, so in 725 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: just a few short days, Part two of my conversation 726 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,960 Speaker 1: with the Legend the Icon Connie Fleming will be dropping 727 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: in the meantime. Be sure to check out all of 728 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: our show notes. So throughout that conversation, I was like, 729 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: google this, check this out. We have links to almost 730 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,879 Speaker 1: everything I reference. Brooke turned it shut out to our 731 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: producer Brooke. Now, in the next half, we talk about 732 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: Connie's life as a nightclub maven and an infamous New 733 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: York City door person. We talked more about a runway 734 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: career and working with the legend Vivian Westwood. We talk 735 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,839 Speaker 1: more for God and transhearstory, juicy behind the scene details 736 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,760 Speaker 1: of the Paris runway with a certain supermodel girl. It's giving, 737 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: it's tea, it's everything and more. If you can believe it, 738 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: just walk in and live in history. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. 739 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much everyone for listening. I hope you 740 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: are getting your life as much as I am. Please rate, review, 741 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: subscribe and share with everyone you know. You can find 742 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: me on Instagram and Twitter at Laverne Cox or should 743 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 1: I say Instagram and X at Laverne Cox and on 744 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: Facebook at Laverne Cox for reel Until next time, stay 745 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 1: in the Love. The Laverne Cox Show is a production 746 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 1: of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 747 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or 748 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.