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Speaker 1: Noted value investor. John Rogers of Aerial Investments started his

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Speaker 1: firm when he was just twenty four years old. Rogers

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Speaker 1: is chairman and co CEO of the company, and he

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Speaker 1: sent down with Carlisle Group co chairman David Rubinstein for

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Speaker 1: a wide ranging chat. Here's part of their interview on

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Speaker 1: Rubenstein's Bloomberg television show Peer to Peer Conversations. So you've

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Speaker 1: been doing value investing for thirty six years? What is

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Speaker 1: a value investor? Value investor is someone who's looking for bargains.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to find stocks that are selling a discount

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Speaker 1: to what we think their private market value is. We

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Speaker 1: want to make sure it's got a low p ratio,

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Speaker 1: a strong balance sheet, and have the ability to really

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Speaker 1: withstand the inevitable storms that happened in the stock market. Now,

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Speaker 1: Warren Buffett, is he a value investor. He's the greatest

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Speaker 1: value investor of all time. You know, sometimes people talk

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Speaker 1: about whether Michael Jordan is better than Lebron James. There's

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Speaker 1: no question when it comes to investing. The warrant is

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Speaker 1: the best of ever, the best ever. Okay, But value investing,

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Speaker 1: as I understand it is easier done when the markets

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Speaker 1: are down. When the markets are high, there aren't as

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Speaker 1: many bargains. So what have you been doing the last

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Speaker 1: ten years because the markets have been very high. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's been interesting. We were able to buy some terrific bargains, um,

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Speaker 1: right around March of two thousand nine when the market

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Speaker 1: was bottoming, and we got some great brands companies like

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Speaker 1: CBS and Royal Caribbean CB Richard ellis a true bargains.

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Speaker 1: But as the markets recovered, some some sectors have stayed

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Speaker 1: really really cheap, in particular media. You know, we love

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Speaker 1: companies like Viacom and Madison Square Garden Network. Those stocks

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Speaker 1: are still really cheap. Financial services companies something you know

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Speaker 1: well come with, like Lazard or KKR. There's some sectors

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Speaker 1: of the market that just seem to be totally neglected

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Speaker 1: even as the markets recovered. I just talk about the economy.

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Speaker 1: The United States economy was intercession that ended in June

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Speaker 1: of two thousand nine, and so now for about ten

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Speaker 1: years we've been in a gross cycle, and um it's

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Speaker 1: one of the longest gross cycles in our country's history.

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Speaker 1: But therefore there haven't been a lot of depressed stock

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Speaker 1: prices for this period of time. So are you kind

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Speaker 1: of hoping that at some point there's a recession so

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Speaker 1: we can get lower stock prices, you can buy more

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Speaker 1: things at value prices. We we like to buy bargains.

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Speaker 1: We like seeing sectors that are cheap. But we don't

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Speaker 1: want to see a recession. You know, all the turmo

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Speaker 1: turmoil that happens, you know, the impact on our society

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Speaker 1: and our citizens. You know, recession is not great for America.

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Speaker 1: So let's suppose I say I watched you and you're

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Speaker 1: a good value investor. I'll give you some money. What

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Speaker 1: kind of rate of return can I expect from your products? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, over the thirty six years, we've been able

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Speaker 1: to compound money and over uply eleven a year. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and that's something we're really proud of. Our aerial fund

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Speaker 1: has been around since so it's thirty three years old,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it's actually number one in this category going

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Speaker 1: back to that period of time. But then neat thing

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Speaker 1: is that we're one of those rare firms that has

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Speaker 1: that thirty six year record with the same portfolio manager

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Speaker 1: in charge, I've been fishing in the same fishing pond,

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Speaker 1: not only value stocks, but small and midsized value stocks

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Speaker 1: the entire timeframe. We have a great team of people

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Speaker 1: that I work with have been with these some have

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Speaker 1: been with the close to thirty years, some twenty years,

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Speaker 1: some fifteen years. So we're a team of grizzle veterans.

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Speaker 1: We think we can replicate our performance in the future.

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Speaker 1: What is your best single deal, and then you can

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Speaker 1: talk about I think over time. One of our best

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Speaker 1: companies we've ever bought was Royal Caribbean. We were able

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Speaker 1: to buy that in the high of the financial crisis.

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Speaker 1: We never one thought that people would never cruise again,

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Speaker 1: and that stock has gone up close to fifteen times

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Speaker 1: itself from the bottom. We still think it's an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: bargain here today. Um, A favorite of ours today is

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Speaker 1: we we find that we think that, as I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: some of the media stocks that are really really cheap,

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Speaker 1: we're sort of optimistic that the Madison Square Garden Network

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Speaker 1: will do really, really well when the Knicks only come

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Speaker 1: back and start to win championships again, it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: great for New York City and great for that stock.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about how you got started. So you

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Speaker 1: grew up in Chicago. Both of your parents were fairly

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Speaker 1: prominent people. So I understand that your father was in

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Speaker 1: the Tuskegee Air Corps. What is the Tuskegee Air Corps

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Speaker 1: for those who may not know. That was the group

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Speaker 1: of UH fighter pilots that were part of World War two,

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Speaker 1: the first group of African American fighter pilots that had

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Speaker 1: a chance to really participate fully in the war. Before then,

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Speaker 1: people didn't think that African Americans were qualified to fly

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Speaker 1: aircraft in major wars. And so my dad was in

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Speaker 1: the first group on the ninety nine fighter Pursuit Squadron

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Speaker 1: to win overseas UH. And thought in World War two,

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Speaker 1: when your father came back after World War Two, what

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Speaker 1: did he do well? He um showed up at the

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Speaker 1: University of Chicago law school. He wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: the best law school, and he thought the University of

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Speaker 1: Chicago was the best. At first, they didn't accept him

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Speaker 1: because he hadn't taken all the appropriate tests and there

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Speaker 1: were not many African American students at the law school

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Speaker 1: at the time. But he asked them he could take

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Speaker 1: a test, and they allowed him to take the test.

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Speaker 1: He showed up in his captain's uniform, and I think

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Speaker 1: the two things together you know, showing what a patriot

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Speaker 1: he was and how good he did on what a

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Speaker 1: great result he had on those tests. He was able

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Speaker 1: to talk his way into the law school. Okay, and

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Speaker 1: your mother, well, he met my mom the other first day.

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Speaker 1: She was the first female African American at at the

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Speaker 1: Chicago law school. She was. She graduated in ninety six

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Speaker 1: and my dad in right. So he built a law

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Speaker 1: practice and she built a law practice. They both had

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Speaker 1: their own independent law practices because back then you couldn't

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Speaker 1: work in a big, large, downtown law practice. My mom

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Speaker 1: worked on divorces and my dad did mostly real estate

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Speaker 1: and bankruptcies. You were the only child. I was, like,

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Speaker 1: like myself, an only child. So the advantage of being

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Speaker 1: an only child as your parents put a lot of

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Speaker 1: time and attention and you. Was that a good thing

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Speaker 1: for you? It was? They focused everything on me. They

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Speaker 1: got divorced when I was three years old. So I

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Speaker 1: had two different lifestyles. You know. My dad lived in

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Speaker 1: a studio apartment, uh, not far from downtown, and my

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Speaker 1: mom lived in more of a large house in Hyde Park.

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Speaker 1: And um, they were different political persuasions. My mom was Republican,

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Speaker 1: my dad was a Democrat. So I learned to sort

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Speaker 1: of navigate two different worlds each and every week. And

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Speaker 1: you went to the Chicago's famous Lab School, which is

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Speaker 1: a school that is well known for I guess it's

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Speaker 1: K to twelve. It's a CAD to twelve school. I

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Speaker 1: I got their ninth grade. Okay. It's a terrific place.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to your academic pursuits, you were a

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Speaker 1: basketball player. I was. And you went to Princeton and

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Speaker 1: you played basketball at Princeton. I was very fortunate to

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Speaker 1: play basketball Princeton for the Hall of Fame coach Pete Kill.

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Speaker 1: He was a legend and someone who really transformed my life.

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Speaker 1: So you're the captain your senior year. I did get

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Speaker 1: to be a captain. Odds. Did you think you were

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Speaker 1: going to be an NBA player? You know, Coach Currol

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Speaker 1: made it very clear that I had no hope to

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Speaker 1: be an NBA player. Uh. He told me when I

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Speaker 1: was a sophomore and I made the team, I was

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Speaker 1: the last person on the team, the fifteen person on

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Speaker 1: the team. He said, Johnny, you're legally blind and I

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Speaker 1: can't teach vision, you can't dribble, and uh, but you

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Speaker 1: work so hard. We'll keep you around for a few

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Speaker 1: more days. So you graduated in in nineteen eight. What

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Speaker 1: did you want to do? I had two role models,

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Speaker 1: um that were stockbrokers. One across the street from a

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Speaker 1: campus on Nassau Street, a guy named Mike Perkins that

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Speaker 1: laidlaw Adams in pack. He helped me, showed showed me

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Speaker 1: at Firestone Library where to go and research companies, how

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Speaker 1: to find newsletters on the stock market. And then I

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Speaker 1: had a broker home at home in Chicago named Stacey

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Speaker 1: Adams who was the first African American stockbroker Onlsalle Street.

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Speaker 1: And I would go and sick sit with him and

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Speaker 1: watch the ticker tape go by. So I thought, if

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Speaker 1: you loved the stock market like I did, you would

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Speaker 1: become a stockbroker. And I was forced to be hired

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Speaker 1: by William Blair and Company in Chicago. The managing partner

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Speaker 1: of the time, Nedjanada, was a Princeton grad. It played

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Speaker 1: football at Princeton and very close to Don Rumsfeld, and

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Speaker 1: Ned helped recruit me there and gave me a great

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Speaker 1: opportunity to start my career at a great firm. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you stayed there ten years or so, before you

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Speaker 1: were ready to do something else. No, I stayed, Uh,

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Speaker 1: about two and a half years. That's enough time to

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Speaker 1: learn the business, I thought. So I had confidence in

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Speaker 1: my strategy of investing in small and mid sized undervalued securities.

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Speaker 1: And as I said earlier, there were not many people

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Speaker 1: doing that, so we felt we were kind of pioneers

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Speaker 1: in the small value place. There were a few firms

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Speaker 1: like Chuck Royce's firm, Ralph Wanger at Acorn Funds, a

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Speaker 1: couple of others, but not many people like to focus

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Speaker 1: in that area of the market. So you started your

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Speaker 1: own company? What age I was twenty four and where

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Speaker 1: did you get the money to capitalize it? Well? I

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Speaker 1: went to Uh, of course, friends and family, you know.

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Speaker 1: I I tell people my my my mom gave me

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Speaker 1: everything she had that was liquid. My dad gave me

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Speaker 1: what he thought he could afford to lose. And after

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Speaker 1: that I went to some of my former clients, my

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Speaker 1: high school buddies from the lab school, anyone that could

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Speaker 1: give me ten thousand dollars to help me start the company.

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Speaker 1: How much capital did it take to start it? Roughly

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Speaker 1: a little over two hundred thousand dollars, okay, and that

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Speaker 1: was what year that was? And where'd you get the

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Speaker 1: name Ariel from? You know, I love the way the

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Speaker 1: name sounded. It was a character on a favorite TV

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Speaker 1: show of mine, and I always said, if I have

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Speaker 1: a daughter, I'm gonna name my daughter Ariel. Okay, But

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Speaker 1: I had the company first. How much are you managing now?

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Speaker 1: About thirteen and a half billion dollars? And you managed

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Speaker 1: more at one point before the Great Recession? So it

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Speaker 1: came down as with these as was the case with

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Speaker 1: many companies, and in fact, how much money did you

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Speaker 1: actually go down to? What? How low did you go?

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Speaker 1: We got under three billion dollars? So do you think

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Speaker 1: you maybe should fold up shop when you're under three

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Speaker 1: billion after you're having twenty or so billion? No, not

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Speaker 1: at all. You know, we m had learned. I think

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Speaker 1: one of the lessons I learned from my father and

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Speaker 1: Melodie Hopson, our president, agree completely was we should always

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Speaker 1: keep money saved for a rainy day. And sure enough

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Speaker 1: we had a hurricane with the financial crisis, but we

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Speaker 1: had saved enough capital in our company so that we

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Speaker 1: can continue to pay our salaries and keep our key

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Speaker 1: people in place during that tough, tough period. And so

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Speaker 1: that was really, really an important part of our approach,

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Speaker 1: and then we bought our best stocks UH at really

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Speaker 1: bargain prices during that period. And I think people like

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Speaker 1: that that we stuck to our guns and believe in

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Speaker 1: what we're doing. Now, some people say that it's impossible

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Speaker 1: to beat the markets, and so therefore one should just

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Speaker 1: buy index funds. Uh. In your case, you don't have

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Speaker 1: index funds. Necessarily, you pick stocks. Why should somebody give

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Speaker 1: money to a stock picker rather than just somebody who's

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Speaker 1: just gonna reflect whatever the sp or whatever the index

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Speaker 1: might be. Well, I think that the reason to do

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Speaker 1: that is there are talented money managers out there who

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Speaker 1: can add value. And it's been proven over time that

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Speaker 1: there are people who have that gift and that creativity

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Speaker 1: and that vision to buy securities and outperform the markets.

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Speaker 1: Now it's hard to find them. Um, there are few

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Speaker 1: and far between, But I think it's worth the effort,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's often and I say, it's like sports.

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Speaker 1: You know, you you root for your local teams, even

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Speaker 1: though you know that half the teams are gonna lose

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Speaker 1: and half the teams are gonna win. Everyone can't be

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Speaker 1: the world champion. Every year, but you still like to

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Speaker 1: be engaged and involved in the competitive pursuit of trying

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Speaker 1: to find a championship or support a champion. I think

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Speaker 1: it's the same with money managers. To keep up with

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Speaker 1: what's going on in the world. Do you use computers?

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Speaker 1: I actually don't use the computer. Do you ever go

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Speaker 1: on the internet? I do have the Internet on my phone,

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Speaker 1: but I'm one of these folks that I've never actually

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Speaker 1: had a computer. I've never turned a computer on. Use emails?

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Speaker 1: I don't email. So how do you people get messages

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Speaker 1: to you today? Send a pigeon with a messenger? How

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Speaker 1: do they How do they get a message to you?

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Speaker 1: They can just call me. So you're on a number

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Speaker 1: of corps boards, and you are legendarily very um loyal

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Speaker 1: to your corporate boards. One of the boards you're on

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Speaker 1: is McDonald's, and it is said, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's possibly true that you eat McDonald's every day somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the world, wherever you are, you eat one meal

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Speaker 1: a day at some McDonald's. Is that true? It's just

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Speaker 1: about every day. I mean there's exceptional times when you're

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Speaker 1: traveling where I can't actually get that done. But I

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Speaker 1: love being a McDonald's sort of my home away from home.

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Speaker 1: And you do that before you're on the McDonald's board.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing that since I got home from college.

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Speaker 1: I just love it there. Um, and you think it's

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Speaker 1: very healthy for you. It seems like it's worked out

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Speaker 1: okay so far for me far. So when you were

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Speaker 1: interviewing to be on the board, I presumed the interview

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Speaker 1: to be on the board. Did you mention this and

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Speaker 1: did they think this was unusual? I still remember having

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Speaker 1: a breakfast with Any McKenna, who became the non executive

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Speaker 1: chairman of McDonald's, and Jim Countal Loopo, the CEO, and

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Speaker 1: it went marvelously well because they could tell how much

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Speaker 1: I loved brand. So you used to play a lot

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Speaker 1: of three on three basketball? Yes, so in Chicago. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever play basketball with Barack Obama? Yes, several times.

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Speaker 1: And is he that good a player? He's a very

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Speaker 1: good player. He knows what he's doing. He's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a in between size. Uh. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: sort of six two and a half or so, and

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Speaker 1: he can't dunk the ball, right, I don't know about that.

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Speaker 1: You think he could dunk? I think he probably could.

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Speaker 1: He's a little left handed, you know, but he's a

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Speaker 1: He's a very good player and makes clutch shots all

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Speaker 1: the time under pressure. There was another player in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: maybe better than even Barack Obama named Michael Jordan's. H

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Speaker 1: did you ever play against Michael Jordan's. I did get

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Speaker 1: to play Michael against Michael around Chicago a lot. You know,

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Speaker 1: he would be at different clubs and you get to

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Speaker 1: be on the fourt with him. I think he was overrated. No,

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Speaker 1: he is, I think the greatest player of all time.

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Speaker 1: So one time, I understand you played against him and

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Speaker 1: you beat him. The only person who ever beat him

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Speaker 1: on a a was a one on one game. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was a very fortunate circumstance. I used to go

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Speaker 1: to his Senior Flights School, which is a fantasy camp

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Speaker 1: for people thirty five years and older, and so every

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Speaker 1: summer at the camp, he would challenge any camper to

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Speaker 1: a short game of one on one, first of three

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Speaker 1: wins and m since no one had beat him in

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Speaker 1: the first seven years of the camp, I think he

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Speaker 1: was kind of a little overconfident. He would let people

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Speaker 1: make a basket or two before he sort of clamped

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Speaker 1: down and shut people down. Also, I had the advantage

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Speaker 1: when I played him. I think he played about fifteen

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Speaker 1: campers before he got to me, so he's kind of tired,

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Speaker 1: and so I was snuck up on him. And UH,

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Speaker 1: coach Curl always said that even though I wasn't a

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Speaker 1: good passer, I was a good one on one player,

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Speaker 1: and so I had a couple of tricky shots and

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Speaker 1: the last tricky shot right as it was about to

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Speaker 1: go in. You can hear Michael say on the video,

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Speaker 1: oh no, and that was really fun. And one when

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Speaker 1: one of the people you were playing basketball against, Barack Obama,

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Speaker 1: I told you he was going to run for president

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Speaker 1: United States? What did you say? I told him. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was a terrific idea. I remember he came

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Speaker 1: over to the office to tell me his plans. And

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Speaker 1: I know, I you know, I know sometimes that people

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Speaker 1: wait a little bit more to get a little more seasoned.

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Speaker 1: But I felt that he was really ready. I was

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Speaker 1: totally confident in his ability to be the commander in chief,

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Speaker 1: and so I encouraged him strongly to run. Hey, and

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Speaker 1: did you get involved in the campaign. I did. I

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Speaker 1: got to be co chairman of the Illinois Finance Committee

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Speaker 1: with a friend of yours, Jim Crown. We worked for

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Speaker 1: Penny Pritzker and that was a magical thing to be

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Speaker 1: able to be involved on the ground floor. And then

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Speaker 1: once he was elected president, UM, I got to be

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Speaker 1: co chairman of the inauguration and that was special, and

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Speaker 1: it was really special. When he first got elected, we

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Speaker 1: were the temporary transition headquarters at Ariel so for three days. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was there helping to form the government. And right,

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Speaker 1: so we'll never forget. Now you helped him in his campaign.

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Speaker 1: He's using your offices for the transition. Did he offer

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Speaker 1: you a job and if so, why didn't you not

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Speaker 1: take it? But we never we never really had that conversation. UM.

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Speaker 1: I love investing and I love our business and I

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Speaker 1: have a great team, as I mentioned earlier at arials,

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Speaker 1: so there was never a thought that I would go

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Speaker 1: to Washington right now. In the philanthropic area, you obviously

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Speaker 1: are a philanthropic leader in Chicago. What are the areas

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Speaker 1: of interest you have in philanthropy. Well, we've been working

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Speaker 1: really hard on David is the sort of the idea

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Speaker 1: of how to solve for the wealth gap in our

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Speaker 1: country between sort of the minority communities and the majority communities.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's all this data that shows how

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Speaker 1: the wealth gap has gotten larger, particularly between African Americans

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Speaker 1: and white Americans. So we started a small public school

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Speaker 1: over twenty two years ago to teach financial literacy in

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Speaker 1: a public school to get young people prepared, uh, to

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Speaker 1: be able to pick their own stocks and be able

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Speaker 1: to navigate their foe own K plan and all the

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Speaker 1: things they need to do. Most recently, we created a

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Speaker 1: program at the University of Chicago for minority students to

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Speaker 1: work during the summer um in in the investment offices

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Speaker 1: of major endowments. Now, your parents were prominent leaders in

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Speaker 1: the African American community in Chicago and prominent leaders in

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Speaker 1: the Chicago community. So, uh, when you were growing up

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Speaker 1: or now that you live in Chicago, do you feel

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Speaker 1: discrimination or have you've been able to bypass that. I

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Speaker 1: have to say that when people think about supporting minority business,

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Speaker 1: it's typically around what they call supplier diversity, construction, catering

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Speaker 1: things that are you know, bought through procurement. And my

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Speaker 1: mom had this challenge when she was building her law practice,

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Speaker 1: and my dad too too, that people just didn't think

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Speaker 1: about hiring a minority lawyer to do their transactions, and

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Speaker 1: the same thing when it comes to money management. We

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Speaker 1: were the first African American money management and mutual fund

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Speaker 1: company to start in the country's history. So when we

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Speaker 1: went to see people, they had never thought about hiring

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Speaker 1: someone that was African American to manage their money or

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Speaker 1: to have our mutual funds in their four O n

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Speaker 1: K plan. You've mentioned a few times Melody Hobson for

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Speaker 1: those who may not know. She's the president of your

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Speaker 1: company or the CEO. And she's the president and she's

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Speaker 1: somebody who also went to Princeton. Do you hire people

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Speaker 1: that didn't go to Princeton? We do. And Melodie came

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Speaker 1: from a challenge background, I think you would say, but

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Speaker 1: she's now become a very well known tell us about

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Speaker 1: her a little bit. I met Melody when she was

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Speaker 1: a prospective Princeton student. She was seventeen years old, and UH,

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Speaker 1: we were trying to make sure that all the local

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Speaker 1: alumni were interviewing all the prospective students, and uh we

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Speaker 1: had a special event for all the admitted students, and

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Speaker 1: Melody came and I sat her at the head table

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Speaker 1: because we could tell throughout the process that she was

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Speaker 1: something really, really special. And so she sat next to

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Speaker 1: a person who Richard Missner, who convinced her not to

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Speaker 1: go to Harvard and to go to Princeton instead. She

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Speaker 1: then became a summer intern with us at Ariel and

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Speaker 1: then she's been a summer tiro Price in Baltimore. She

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Speaker 1: had a great time, and she joined us when she graduated.

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Speaker 1: So she says, she's the only person from her Princeton

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Speaker 1: class that has the same phone number twenty nine years later,

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Speaker 1: and she is taking on more and more leadership at

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Speaker 1: the company every year. She'll be my successor. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it's so wonderful have a partner who's as tough and

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Speaker 1: smart as she is. Okay, now you have your finger

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Speaker 1: on the pulse of the economy since you're looking at

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Speaker 1: stocks all the time that are reflective of the U.

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Speaker 1: S economy? Are you worried about a recession in the

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Speaker 1: near future. I'm not worried about the recession. You know,

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Speaker 1: we think long term at Ariel. As you know, our

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Speaker 1: logos a turtle. We believe that patients wins. And I

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Speaker 1: always remind myself Warren Buffett, you know, always says that

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Speaker 1: last century. The Dallas started at sixty six and ended

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Speaker 1: it over eleven thousand, and we had two world wars,

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Speaker 1: a great depression, press and it's assassinated. It was an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary hundred years. But the market always marches back. Are

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Speaker 1: you not worried that the US government, for example, has

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Speaker 1: twenty two trillion dollars of indebtedness and we're adding at

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Speaker 1: one point three trillion a year or is that a

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Speaker 1: concern or not so much? Not so much? You know

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Speaker 1: right now, as you know, inflation is staying very much

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Speaker 1: under control. Um interest rates are staying low, which means

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Speaker 1: the stocks I think, still are undervalued in this environment.

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Speaker 1: So we think that we always have a way of

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Speaker 1: adapting to whatever the challenge in this country faces, and

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Speaker 1: my confidence is really high that we will get through

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Speaker 1: the problems that are always in front of us. On

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Speaker 1: recent years, the income and equality in United States has

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Speaker 1: become very evident. Is there anything that you think government

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Speaker 1: policymakers can do to diminish the very large income and

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Speaker 1: equality we now have. I think that one government needs

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Speaker 1: to do a better job of making sure that we

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Speaker 1: have financial literacy in public schools, in particular urban public

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Speaker 1: schools where we can get people exposed to the markets

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Speaker 1: and get people coming out relatively ready to make the

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Speaker 1: right investment choices, be more effective entrepreneurs because they've been

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Speaker 1: exposed to the markets at an early age. I think

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Speaker 1: that's critical. So what do you think your legacy will

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Speaker 1: be and what would you like it to be. I

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Speaker 1: think our legacy will be that we were able to

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Speaker 1: build the most diverse money management firm in the country's history,

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Speaker 1: with an extraordinarily talent diverse board of directors and deliver

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Speaker 1: excellence and performance at the same time, and be role

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Speaker 1: models for others to get into the financial services sector, because,

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Speaker 1: as you know, this is such a lucrative part of

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Speaker 1: our economy and hasn't been a verse very diverse part

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Speaker 1: of our economy. So we want to show people that

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Speaker 1: it can be done, and hopefully it will inspire others

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Speaker 1: who'll want to follow in our footsteps and Melody's footsteps

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Speaker 1: and be successful in the financial services industry. No regrets

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Speaker 1: about not going into private equity, you know, it's it

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Speaker 1: never came up, and so we we think about it

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Speaker 1: from time to time, but really, a uh, we love

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Speaker 1: picking stocks. Hey, Well, thank you very very much for

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Speaker 1: an interesting conversation. Thank you John, Thank you very that's

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Speaker 1: John Rogers, the chairman and co CEO of Aerial Investments,

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Speaker 1: speaking with Carlisle Group co chairman David rubin Stein