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Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.

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Speaker 2: This is the law of the Jungle, as old and

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Speaker 2: as true.

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Speaker 3: As the sty We investigated many incidents that were determined

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Speaker 3: to be related to the gang's activities, actual criminal activity,

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Speaker 3: criminal behavior by the gang and.

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Speaker 2: Wolf that show he is may a wolf that show

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Speaker 2: grades must.

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Speaker 4: Die he had ever made as a musical artist and

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Speaker 4: help the family himself and as many others out of

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Speaker 4: this endless cycle of homelessness.

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Speaker 5: He would be truly humble under God. That's what fotus.

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Speaker 2: As a creeper that girdles the tree, Trump the law buddy,

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Speaker 2: forward and back.

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Speaker 6: You'll see a car soon down Midaniel Street towards the

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Speaker 6: north side. Drive on that January nine and a years

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Speaker 6: from the video, and you will see that it will

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Speaker 6: start shooting out in the sun roof in the direction

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Speaker 6: of Donavan, Thomas and others, and you'll see that surveillance video.

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Speaker 7: Or what it is and what it is.

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Speaker 2: But the strength of the pack is the wolf, and

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Speaker 2: the strength.

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Speaker 5: Of the wolf is the pack.

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Speaker 2: Dud Remember the White Sail Hop, Jafferylians Team Slot.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I'm George Cheaty and I'm Christina Lee.

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Speaker 1: And Liz is king sly the prosecution of Young Thug

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Speaker 1: and ysl. Now that the jury has been seated and

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Speaker 1: the Ysol trial is well underway, we're changing up the

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Speaker 1: format a bit.

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Speaker 7: This time.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be analyzing the proceedings as they unfold

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Speaker 1: in a lively discussion.

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Speaker 9: And it will be lively, so we'll use our knowledge

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Speaker 9: of the case and what we've gathered from the production

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Speaker 9: of our limited series too at context insight because we're smart. Look,

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Speaker 9: we're joined by our executive producer, Tommy Andres, who will

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Speaker 9: help to moderate our conversations.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, thank you guys very much. This is fun. Right,

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Speaker 10: we'll dive right in because the thing about this first

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Speaker 10: episode is we have tons of ground to cover. Yeah,

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Speaker 10: because the jury's been seated for a while now. We've

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Speaker 10: obviously touched on some of this stuff in our limited series,

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Speaker 10: but we've got lots to talk about today.

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Speaker 9: Now.

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Speaker 10: George, you spent a lot of time in the courtroom

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Speaker 10: for this obviously, and you've also covered lots of murder

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Speaker 10: trials in the past. How is this trial different so

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Speaker 10: far from what you've seen?

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Speaker 9: So it's nuts, It's just I mean, it's easy to say,

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Speaker 9: like Oh, it's bonkers. But it is unlike like any

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Speaker 9: murder trial I've seen, and it's unlike other rico cases frankly,

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Speaker 9: because there are a lot of defendants and a lot

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Speaker 9: of lawyers, and they're all pulling for in six different

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Speaker 9: directions all at once, and so it bogs everything down

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Speaker 9: and everything takes longer, like there's an ensemble performance around

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Speaker 9: every witness, and we're seeing that right now with Trontavius Stevens.

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Speaker 9: That's Tick, who's uh, one of the folks's defendant who

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Speaker 9: cut a deal, made a plea. It has to testify,

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Speaker 9: and it's excruciating to watch. And if he's taken two

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Speaker 9: weeks and he's one guy and they've got four hundred.

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Speaker 11: Witnesses prosecution, you mean correct.

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Speaker 9: I don't know when this is going to end. Nobody

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Speaker 9: in that courtroom knows when this is going to be over.

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Speaker 10: So, Christina, what are some of your broader impressions watching

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Speaker 10: this trial?

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Speaker 11: Well, am I non expert opinion.

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Speaker 1: This is to verify what George is saying, taking forever

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Speaker 1: and the scope of it, I think is what's really

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Speaker 1: overwhelming me the most, because somehow, over the course of

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks I've heard Lebron James's name mentioned twice?

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Speaker 5: Do you know who Lebron James is? Who is Telelasion

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Speaker 5: gem and Jerry? Who Lebron James? NBA?

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Speaker 10: Okay?

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Speaker 12: And have you seen him do the wiping of the

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Speaker 12: nose and say slime?

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 1: And there's good reason why people might be asking why

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Speaker 1: are we hearing about Lebron James in a court case

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Speaker 1: that concerns Atlanta?

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Speaker 11: But I am completely.

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Speaker 1: Overwhelmed and I need show like this to really help

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Speaker 1: my mind around what the hell is going on?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean we touched on the opening statements a

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Speaker 10: little bit in our limited series and we got to

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Speaker 10: play a little a couple of clips from those, but

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Speaker 10: there's so much more to talk about really with those

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Speaker 10: opening statements. So what do you think we learned from

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Speaker 10: both sides? And I'll start with you, George.

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Speaker 9: So one of the things that came out, I mean,

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Speaker 9: I spent years, better than a year looking at this case.

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Speaker 9: Had no idea that the cops had tape of the

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Speaker 9: Donovan Thomas murder, Like there's surveillance video of the drive

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Speaker 9: by the case.

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Speaker 6: Is shooting of Donavan Thomas was caught on surveillance video.

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Speaker 6: Now I'm not going to suggest it's the highest quality

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Speaker 6: surveillance video, but it was caught aurveillance video, and you'll

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Speaker 6: be able to watch the surveillance video.

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Speaker 9: And I'm looking so sooner I heard that, I'm like, why

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Speaker 9: the act didn't they How why did this take seven

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Speaker 9: years to come to add to a And it turns

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Speaker 9: out it's they had an early witness, or so they thought,

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Speaker 9: who was lying to them, and it derailed their initial

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Speaker 9: investigation and prosecution. These are all things that we've been

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Speaker 9: waiting for for years to come out, and now finally

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Speaker 9: it starts to hit the opening in the opening statements, And.

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Speaker 10: We learned about that from Max Shart, right, who's Shannon

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Speaker 10: Stillwell's defense attorney, who in our show a bunch.

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Speaker 9: Shannon Stillwell is one of the people who's accused of

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Speaker 9: killing Donovan Thomas, and the police have long suspected him

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Speaker 9: of being the shooter. He's accused of that murder and

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Speaker 9: another murder. And so Max Shart, more than maybe even

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Speaker 9: Brian Steele is, you know, has to get on the

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Speaker 9: bicycle and roll like through this whole thing. Like if

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Speaker 9: they prove that murder, they've got a bunch of other

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Speaker 9: stuff that everybody basically goes down because that is a

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Speaker 9: clear gang crime. So Sharp is like a constant presence

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Speaker 9: and is constantly talking about like, no, this part piece

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Speaker 9: of evidence is bad. Oh, this videotape, well, it's like this, Oh,

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Speaker 9: this witness was bad. Oh. The fact that there was

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Speaker 9: an ankle monitor on my guy that puts him at

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Speaker 9: the scene of one of these murders. We could discount

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Speaker 9: that these are the reasons why. And I'm still listening

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Speaker 9: to this, like they had this much evidence, like what.

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Speaker 10: So yeah, and Christina, what did you think about the

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Speaker 10: opening statements?

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Speaker 1: At least on the defense side, it was to an extent,

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Speaker 1: it was what I expected, right, which is that Brian

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Speaker 1: Steele Young Thugs lawyer was going to portray his client

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Speaker 1: as a really hard working, up and cooming musician out

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Speaker 1: of Cleveland Avenue and somebody who, frankly is too famous

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Speaker 1: to concern himself with anything involving like a criminal street gang.

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Speaker 5: Jeffie Williams is a Grammy Award winner.

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Speaker 13: He is not sitting there telling people to people he

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Speaker 13: doesn't need their money.

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Speaker 5: Jeffrey's work keens of millions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: So that much I expected I guess what I didn't

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Speaker 1: expect was to learn that the thug and young Thug

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Speaker 1: is an acronym and that it stands for truly humble

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Speaker 1: under God.

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Speaker 13: The means to Jeffrey something very personal. It was his

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Speaker 13: path he could ever make as a.

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Speaker 12: Musical artist and help the family, himself and as many

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Speaker 12: others out of this endless cycle of hopelessness.

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Speaker 5: He would be truly humble under God. That's what thug means.

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Speaker 10: This really made rounds on the internet too. I mean

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Speaker 10: lots of people were kind of chimming in on social media.

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Speaker 11: But about that face.

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Speaker 9: Every time somebody says this truly humble under God thing,

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Speaker 9: like you just need to like this needs to be

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Speaker 9: like Bert in that gift where he's just staring at

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Speaker 9: you like he's gonna kill you, Like, uh huh no,

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Speaker 9: nobody believe I don't look people, there are people in

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Speaker 9: this world who will believe this. I don't know those people.

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Speaker 9: Please introduce me to those people.

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Speaker 11: Listen. It was surprising because during his opening.

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Speaker 1: Same as Brian Steele, essentially says a young thug has

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Speaker 1: two artistic influences.

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Speaker 13: And Jeffrey studied two rap artists, particularly he idolized a

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Speaker 13: gentleman named Dwayne Card.

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Speaker 5: His performing name is Little Wayne. Jeffrey also idolized.

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Speaker 1: Cheapo one being low Wayne, which was apparent from the

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Speaker 1: moment that he started rapping essentially the other though being

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Speaker 1: less obvious, and that was Tupac. So Tupac had the

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Speaker 1: words thug life tattooed across as abdomen, but they never

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Speaker 1: meant for that to be taken literally. It was always

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a statement that stood for the hate

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Speaker 1: you give little infants fucks everybody. So what Brian Steele

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Speaker 1: was saying was that Young Thug took influence from that

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Speaker 1: and said that the Thug and Young Thug was going

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Speaker 1: to stand for that much more. However, I feel like

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Speaker 1: even for the biggest Young Thug fans, that was news

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Speaker 1: to them.

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Speaker 9: Like, as I'm listening to this, I'm going like, one,

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Speaker 9: who's the audience for this statement? Because like, it doesn't

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Speaker 9: matter whether or not I believe it. Sure, I'm a cynic.

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Speaker 9: I think everybody's lying to me all the time. Like

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Speaker 9: the question is whether or not twelve jurors and four

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Speaker 9: alternates hearing that will go it's plausible, Like.

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Speaker 1: Don't I don't know, Well, I mean They're also supposed

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Speaker 1: to answer questions, you know, as they were being selected

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Speaker 1: about how aware they were even about rap music, young

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Speaker 1: Thug or whatever. So I mean, wouldn't that mean that

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Speaker 1: this would all be news to them essentially?

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Speaker 9: Yes, I mean there are nine black on that and

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Speaker 9: not that you just make presumptions about people's musical tastes,

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Speaker 9: But there are nine black jurors, you know, in Atlanta,

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Speaker 9: Like I would expect them to have sort of a

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Speaker 9: baseline understanding, not so much about young Thug. Look, I'm

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Speaker 9: fifty years old. I've said this a lot. If it's

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Speaker 9: post Wu Tang clan, I need help. But but you

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Speaker 9: know it's Tupac. I mean, if you're a fifty year old,

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Speaker 9: you know what Tupac's about, like, and so this idea

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Speaker 9: that you know, he's drawing from Tupac in this specific way,

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Speaker 9: Like all of a sudden, the introduction of lyrics into

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Speaker 9: a case starts to make sense from their perspective, It's like, oh,

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Speaker 9: really that's what that was about. Show me, Like at

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Speaker 9: which point both the prosecution and the defense are going

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Speaker 9: to be like, Okay, well he said this and this

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Speaker 9: and this and these lyrics because he made this statement

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Speaker 9: like this is what his music's about.

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Speaker 10: Here we go, We'll be back after the break. Well,

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Speaker 10: I will say his sister back in December of twenty

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Speaker 10: twenty two did tweet out this very thing that truly

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Speaker 10: Humble under God is what Thug was meant to imply.

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Speaker 10: That's where he got his name from. So there was

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Speaker 10: some precedent for that. But whether she I mean, he'd

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Speaker 10: already been arrested at that point, so whether she was

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Speaker 10: sort of laying the groundwork for this idea that they

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Speaker 10: were going to put in court as interesting. So when

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Speaker 10: I heard it, I was like, oh, I remember, I

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Speaker 10: think Dora was the sister that said it in a tweet.

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Speaker 10: I remember she had tweeted that at some point because

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Speaker 10: we were keeping tabs on everything, and so it was

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Speaker 10: interesting to see that pop back up in court. I

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Speaker 10: think with Brian Steele saying it, I mean, on some.

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Speaker 9: Level I get what he's trying to do here, like

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Speaker 9: it's he wants to make this case about Young Thug's fame,

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Speaker 9: like dumb Thug is, why would Young Thug burn his

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Speaker 9: career for this stuff?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's about fame and also just how prevalent gang

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Speaker 1: culture is in pop music culture to the point where

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Speaker 1: it's like, can you take every signifier in every hip

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Speaker 1: hop context?

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Speaker 10: Literally?

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Speaker 11: I think he's trying to cast a shadow of doubt.

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Speaker 9: There, and in that regard, I think he's doing is

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Speaker 9: the best job you could do.

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Speaker 10: So Opening Stamas began right after Thanksgiving, so we've been

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Speaker 10: going for a little while here. We talked about some

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Speaker 10: witnesses already. Trantaviou Stevens, We'll get back to him in

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Speaker 10: a minute, but tell me about some of the earliest

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Speaker 10: witnesses we saw basically to start out with the parade

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Speaker 10: of police officers right.

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Speaker 9: Starting with Mark Bellnap. Mark bell Napp is sort of

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Speaker 9: generally understood as like the prime gang investigator for the APD,

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Speaker 9: but also generally in the state. He sits on the

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Speaker 9: board of the Georgia Gang Investigators Association, lectures across the

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Speaker 9: state on this stuff. Is an expert witness in a

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Speaker 9: bunch of different trials. It would actually be weird for

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Speaker 9: them to not bring bell Nap in to start this

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Speaker 9: thing because he knows more about like broad gang culture

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Speaker 9: and gang activity and gang members, Like he can go

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Speaker 9: and talk to actual gang members and say this is real,

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Speaker 9: and they'll say yeah, that's no, that's not This guy's

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Speaker 9: a that's a fake, like that's his job, and so

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Speaker 9: bell naps there. These started laying out the history, like

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Speaker 9: this is what we know of Rock Crew.

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Speaker 3: Raised on Cleveland, and it was one of the earliest

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Speaker 3: of those gangs that I told you earlier called hybrid gangs.

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Speaker 5: They were a local group, obviously raised on Cleveland. They're

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Speaker 5: saying we were all from Cleveland Avenue area. They're all

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Speaker 5: from that area. But we began seeing them and observing them.

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Speaker 13: Picking up the identifiers and we would traditionally associate with

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Speaker 13: gangs that are associated with the bloods. They started wearing

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Speaker 13: red bandanas, They started using the number five, including in

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Speaker 13: five point stars.

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Speaker 5: They started using their own hand sign.

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Speaker 9: And then taking that through thirty D to yasel at

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Speaker 9: least from the police perspective, Like the thing is, this

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Speaker 9: is the police perspective, like the whole point of a

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Speaker 9: trial is for a defense attorneys going, well, that's not

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Speaker 9: actually how that.

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Speaker 1: Works, right, right, right, And we heard a lot of

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Speaker 1: this actually during the making of our show when we

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Speaker 1: talked with investigator Kimberly Underwood.

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Speaker 14: He wasn't young thug when I met he was Jeffrey Williams.

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Speaker 14: He was a part of a hybrid game rock Crew.

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Speaker 1: I think there was some parallels there where she talked

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Speaker 1: about how initially Rock Crew we're getting in, we're you know,

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Speaker 1: stealing from ATMs and all that.

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Speaker 14: Back when I started the investigations, we had a lot

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Speaker 14: of ATM thefts around the Cleveland Avenue neighborhood. We knew

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Speaker 14: for the fact that Rock Crew were in both, and

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Speaker 14: it's rumors that, you know, they used the proceeds from

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Speaker 14: the actual ATM thefts to get into the studio and

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Speaker 14: blow up. So it's like you said that the chrominal

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Speaker 14: activity starts and then they build their way.

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Speaker 1: Up, and that how that actually became the president for

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Speaker 1: what we know now as like why to sell the

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Speaker 1: purported record label.

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Speaker 14: Because you have to put money into studios to actually

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Speaker 14: you know, become rappers.

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Speaker 9: And then after that, there's just a bunch of different

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Speaker 9: police officers, like we're talking about beat cops from Zone

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Speaker 9: three that's South Atlanta, who had arrested this guy or

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Speaker 9: that guy or the other guy, because they're the job

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Speaker 9: of the prosecution at this point is to prove the

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Speaker 9: gang case. On top of the rico thing like and

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Speaker 9: to do that, you've got to prove that, why I sell,

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Speaker 9: was an illegal street gang. It's perfectly legal to belong

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Speaker 9: to a gang, a street gang, but if there if

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Speaker 9: the gang is about committing crimes, then it's illegal, like

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Speaker 9: and then you have to prove that the person is

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Speaker 9: a member of that gang. And then you have to

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Speaker 9: prove that that person committed a crime which counts under

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Speaker 9: the gang statute and would have been furthering the interests

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Speaker 9: of the gang. And so they've got a first show like, well,

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Speaker 9: here are all the crimes that we and big crimes

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Speaker 9: and little crimes, like everything from the murder case to

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Speaker 9: like a criminal trespass because you're on a Harvard board.

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Speaker 10: Right, Yeah, Actually, let's talk about that one in particular,

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Speaker 10: because we talked about this I think in the podcast,

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Speaker 10: this small crime that was pegged on Young Thug early.

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Speaker 10: What do you think, Christina, Can you talk a little

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Speaker 10: bit more about that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's interesting to bring this incident back

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Speaker 1: up in the context of the indictment because I think

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Speaker 1: in the grainder scheme of Young Thug's career now it's

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Speaker 1: almost kind of a footnote. I think I actually did

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Speaker 1: have to jog my memory a little bit as to what.

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Speaker 11: Actually happened there.

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Speaker 1: But the incident that we're talking about is what happened

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Speaker 1: at Perimeter Mall when a mall security guard, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: approach Young Thug who was riding on a hoverboard in

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Speaker 1: the mall when he wasn't supposed to, and then like

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Speaker 1: in the midst of all that, as they're trying to

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Speaker 1: settle things, Young Thug essentially said, I'm going to shoot

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Speaker 1: you in the face.

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Speaker 9: It's not clear it was actually Young Thug who said that.

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Speaker 9: It was somebody in the car, right.

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Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that even if who said that

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Speaker 1: wasn't clear at the time, because Young Thug is coming

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Speaker 1: up as a hip hop artist and getting profiled in

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Speaker 1: the likes of New York Times and GQ, it actually

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Speaker 1: kind of becomes part of his lore. At the time,

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Speaker 1: it was helping to illustrate Young Thug as like Atlanta

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Speaker 1: hip hop's new bad boy. But in the grander scheme

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Speaker 1: of things, of course, you know, he's been on SNL,

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Speaker 1: he sold number one albums, he has artists like under his.

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Speaker 11: Tutelage, and so to then see.

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Speaker 1: The mall security guard take the wit or take the

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Speaker 1: stand was really interesting because it especially for those who

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Speaker 1: have been following Young Thug's career, it's like, oh, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go that far back. We're going we're examining

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Speaker 1: the full essentially the full extent of Young Thug's career

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Speaker 1: as we know it, because this incident occurred in what

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 10: And there was a particularly difficult witness to watch, right,

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Speaker 10: I mean, this is a man that suffered a stroke.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, apparently last year, and so like they didn't show

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Speaker 9: his face by the way, like you got to be

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Speaker 9: in court to see him, and I mean the stroke

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Speaker 9: was apparent both in like how he was speaking and

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Speaker 9: what his appearance was like. And he couldn't remember much.

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Speaker 9: Like he's looking through the paperwork and he's like, I

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Speaker 9: don't actually remember signing this.

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Speaker 15: I don't remember providing this statement at all.

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Speaker 9: I don't remember looking at this. I don't remember. Prosecution

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Speaker 9: had to know he was going to be a hard,

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Speaker 9: hard witness, like, but they put him on anyway because

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Speaker 9: that they needed him in order to authenticate the document,

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Speaker 9: and they did it the best way they could. It

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Speaker 9: shows that they're throwing spaghetti at the wall. Whatever they've got,

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Speaker 9: everything they've got like because if you could admit something,

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Speaker 9: you would omit that in order to say this is

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Speaker 9: a gang these are gang things like and I, especially

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Speaker 9: with that one, You've got to start asking questions about

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Speaker 9: if I'm the juror jury, I'm asking questions about, like,

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Speaker 9: what are you calling gang crimes?

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Speaker 10: Yeah. So the next witness, uh notable witness that we'll

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Speaker 10: talk about today is Trontavius Stevens.

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Speaker 16: We brought up earlier, Are okay?

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Speaker 10: Now he made a deal, as you mentioned, to testify

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Speaker 10: in this trial for more lenient sentence, and now is

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Speaker 10: compelled to testify by this deal. So you know, obviously

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Speaker 10: what Max Shark would say about him and has said

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Speaker 10: about these witnesses in general, is that you know, hey,

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Speaker 10: these guys made deals to save their own skin. They

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Speaker 10: can't be trusted. So Trontavia Stephen has to earn the

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Speaker 10: trust in order to be a good witness for the prosecution.

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Speaker 10: So tell me a bit about what you saw from

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Speaker 10: Trentavious Stephens.

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Speaker 9: Tronevious Stephens is tap dancing as best he can. He

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Speaker 9: is ice skating on thin ice.

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Speaker 1: He is.

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Speaker 9: In trouble still, like only it's not just the prosecution,

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Speaker 9: it's the street. So his deal says he must testify

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Speaker 9: when called, he must testify that YL is a street gang,

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Speaker 9: that is an illegal street gang, that it committed crimes,

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Speaker 9: that these are the crimes, and that these are the members.

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Speaker 9: And he's said he's a founder of YSL, So he's

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Speaker 9: somebody who they say will be able to say who

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Speaker 9: was actually a LEGITIMATEYL gang member. Like, those were the

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Speaker 9: terms of his deal, and if he doesn't perform, he

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Speaker 9: goes to prison for eight years. The problem is, if

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Speaker 9: he does perform, the street says, you're a snitch, and

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Speaker 9: like if there are other wise guys who want to

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Speaker 9: hurt him, they can get to him. So he's sitting

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Speaker 9: there trying to fulfill the terms of his deal without

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Speaker 9: getting himself killed. And I'm just going to say, like,

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Speaker 9: I think that that is something that he is thinking

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Speaker 9: about every time he opens his mouth, and it's why

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Speaker 9: it takes him ten seconds to answer a question because

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Speaker 9: he's like, what is the what is the answer I

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Speaker 9: could give that that creates the least amount of risk.

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Speaker 2: Do you recall answering to the jury that the record

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Speaker 2: label was positivity and that gay was negative.

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Speaker 10: And young the gay the.

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Speaker 7: Entity the thing that you.

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Speaker 2: Wanted the fathuly members of.

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Speaker 5: Oh I was a music?

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Speaker 2: You were a fouding, a member of.

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Speaker 9: So community crimes.

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Speaker 15: While being a part of why just why.

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Speaker 5: I'm trying to answer the question I'm asking you about.

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Speaker 15: So I committed crimes by being a part of why

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Speaker 15: sil So, by me commedying crimes by being a part

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Speaker 15: of why, Sir, that.

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Speaker 5: It was basic to say that why I Sale was

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Speaker 5: a game.

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Speaker 11: Technically he fulfilled his part of the argument.

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Speaker 1: But like you said, George, like it's on a technicality, right,

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Speaker 1: because I think when I was reading the news, I

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Speaker 1: got the impression that he just got up to the

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Speaker 1: stand and said you, you and you, you're all part

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Speaker 1: of why So. But it even took a little bit

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Speaker 1: more coaxing to get him to that point, right.

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Speaker 9: It took him three days, like the prosecutors had three

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Speaker 9: days before he would actually say that straight up in this.

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Speaker 14: Short room right now, are members of hyas Sale young slime.

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Speaker 5: Like the game?

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Speaker 12: All of them?

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Speaker 7: And about all of them?

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Speaker 2: Would you please call them my names?

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Speaker 7: Quay right, you said the so did you call Jeffery

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Speaker 7: Williams stuff?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Do you members of.

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Speaker 2: Hyat Sale called Jeffery Williams tea Slot.

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Speaker 10: Yes, they did get him to say it though, which

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Speaker 10: is meaningful. I mean, it's it's in line with the

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Speaker 10: Gunn of stuff. And that's why everybody says that the

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Speaker 10: Gunna deal was so important, was because he had to say, yeah,

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Speaker 10: y so is a gang, which is one of the

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Speaker 10: things that you were talking about that they have to

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Speaker 10: prove here more on the way stay with us.

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Speaker 9: I mean straight up, like Gunna is going to have

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Speaker 9: to go through this. If he gets called, it's the

439
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 9: same deal, Like he's got the same deal Gunn has

440
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Speaker 9: got like and so the whole snitching conversation around Gunna

441
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,719
Speaker 9: has not ended because we're getting a bird's eye view

442
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 9: of what that's going to look like.

443
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 10: What do you think about Trenttavious Stevens.

444
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: I think it was hard even beyond that perspective, It

445
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: seemed really hard to get a straight answer from him.

446
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: And it seemed like for all that he was being

447
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: asked to talk about, even during the cross examination, it was,

448
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: to put it most generously, it didn't seem like he

449
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: had the best of memory or like in any case,

450
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: or like you said, George May, he is being squarely

451
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: on purpose, right, So he's trying to answer the question,

452
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: but only from a technical standpoint and trying to answer

453
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: it and the least using the least amount of effort possible.

454
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: It was interesting because yet on the prosecution side you

455
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: have him speaking to affirming that, yes, like YSL was

456
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: a gang I'm.

457
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 11: An amittic co founder Da da Da da Da.

458
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: But on the other side of things, you know, Brian

459
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: Steele is essentially trying to establish that as a co

460
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: founder of YSL, you were also playing a part in

461
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: establishing YSL as a record label and what is your

462
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: role in that?

463
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 11: What did you witness in that?

464
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: And so that's how you get to a line of

465
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: questioning where Tick is being asked by Brian Steele.

466
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 11: Do you know who Serena Williams is?

467
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 5: Do you know who Serena Williams is?

468
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 7: Yes?

469
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 5: Have you seen her at Wimbledon doing what's called the

470
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 5: crypt walk?

471
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: And did you see her do the crip walk that

472
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: one time as a victory dance? You know, just to

473
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: speak to the prevalence of gang culture and how it's

474
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: celebrated in pop culture, and that's why you have to

475
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: be up here at the ful and County Courthouse on

476
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: Murger saying like, I don't watch tennis. I watched ten Okay,

477
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: that's what we've come to now in this trial, George

478
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: and Tommy, Yeah.

479
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 10: Which got a little bit of a giggle. You can

480
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 10: actually hear people chuckle a little bit at that line

481
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 10: in the court room.

482
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 9: The whole trial is sort of skating on the edge

483
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 9: of the absurd. Like there are absurd moments, I mean,

484
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 9: and we've chronicled a lot of them over the course

485
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 9: of this, like our previous reporting and through the through

486
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 9: the podcast, but like every every day there's something that

487
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 9: like we live in a universe where lifestyles has to

488
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 9: be played in court as a as evidence of some

489
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 9: sort like like this this one.

490
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 10: That is another moment that went viral and that was

491
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 10: without the jury, and that was without the jury, right,

492
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 10: why were they trying to use lifestyle in court? Christina?

493
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: So, Brian Steele wanted to present lifestyle in full because

494
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: again what during the cross examination of Tick. Essentially, Brian

495
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: Steale wanted to establish that lifestyle was becoming a major

496
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: hit in the same time period that some of the

497
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: social media posts cited in the indictment was actually taking place,

498
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: and so he wanted to play the music video to

499
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: give greater context to why young Thug might be wearing.

500
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 11: A rich Gang label or a rich gang hoodie, or like.

501
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: Why yeah, or like why he might be wearing the

502
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: color red in this instance when the color red is

503
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: also being worn pretty prominently in the music video.

504
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 6: Right.

505
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: So essentially, like prosecution and defense are arguing over whether

506
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: to play this video or not, they play it in full,

507
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: and that's that was the clip that went viral. But

508
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: in the end of it all, Judge Glenville ultimately decides that,

509
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: like listen, based on how this cross examination with Tick

510
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: is going so far, maybe he's not the best witness

511
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: to speak to the overall intense of what is happening

512
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: around here. Basically, Judge Glamba was like, you either got

513
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 1: to bring in rich Homi Kwan, who is with Rich

514
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Gang you know at the time the lifestyle is being

515
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: made and turning into this big hit, or you got

516
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: to bring in Birdman, the architect of this whole thing.

517
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: Two of the seven Hunderd witnesses that are on the list,

518
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: but probably the two most relevant to that particular piece

519
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: of evidence.

520
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 10: We talked about how long this is taking, Like with

521
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 10: Trontavia Stevens, right. So he was on for five full

522
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 10: days and then they took a break from Martin Luther

523
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 10: King week that week was off, and so now we're

524
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 10: back and he's on the stand again. This week, I

525
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 10: saw a lot of social media chatter about people being like,

526
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 10: is this the trial's only witness because he's taking so long.

527
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 10: And part of the reason for this is because you

528
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 10: have six defendants, each of the lawyers gets a chance

529
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 10: to cross examine the witness. I just wonder the length

530
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 10: of this thing. Who is this impacting more the prosecution

531
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 10: or the defense?

532
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 9: Do you think, George, It's hard to tell, Like, in

533
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 9: part because I'm trying to put myself in the trying

534
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 9: to be trying to think of yourself as a juror

535
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 9: who's gone, Like you're already months into this thing, Like

536
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 9: your life is disrupted. And every time you see some

537
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 9: lengthy oh my god, they're still interviewing him. Oh my god,

538
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 9: there's there's a cross examine. Oh there's another guy cross exam.

539
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 9: Oh we've gone three weeks on one witness. They've got

540
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 9: how many witnesses, Like, on some level, you got to

541
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 9: wonder how many of them are like just get me

542
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 9: out of here.

543
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: Even a three to four minute music video felt like

544
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: ages in that context.

545
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 11: They're playing lifestyle from beginning to end.

546
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: They're trying to get pushing p to play like there's

547
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: some technical difficulties there. They're waiting for the video and

548
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: a buffer, and then they finally get to play it

549
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: in full, and I was like, this is my entire

550
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: life flashing before my eyes.

551
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 10: You guys, I heard Glenville ask if the jury wanted

552
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 10: to break at one point after something, and they were

553
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 10: You could hear like yes, Like I mean there was,

554
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 10: like seriously, there were I mean, there's some exasperating and

555
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 10: I do one. It feels like this works against the

556
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 10: prosecution to me because they're the ones. They're the reason

557
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 10: we're all here, right, They're the reason everyone's in the

558
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 10: courtroom is they brought these charges against them. They have

559
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 10: the burden of proof, and so I'm when I think

560
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 10: of like what a juror would be thinking in that seat,

561
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 10: Like if I'm in that seat, I'm like, God, this

562
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 10: is taking so long, and I kind of you know,

563
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 10: who's conducting the orchestra, right?

564
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 9: Yeah. One of the other things here is the likelihood

565
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 9: of a mistrial, And it's more than just the potential

566
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 9: for misconduct, Like, you got a bunch of folks who

567
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 9: are fifty sixty so maybe seventy years old on the jury.

568
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 9: Any of them get COVID and there have to be

569
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 9: out for a week. Either you stop the trial for

570
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 9: a week or you knock that juror off the trial.

571
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 9: You got twelve jurors and four alternates, which means you

572
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 9: can lose four. When you lose five, you're done. You

573
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 9: have to start over. Oh goodness, gracious, can you imagine

574
00:31:59,400 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 9: that's true.

575
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: There was their homework assignment during the MLK week. They're like,

576
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, make sure you're up to date on all

577
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: your vaccines and don't talk to anybody about this ever.

578
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 11: Okay, we can't start over.

579
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, mistrial's an absolute nightmare and we saw

580
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 10: some close calls early in the trial because of discovery rules.

581
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 10: I mean, the prosecution has been burned a couple of

582
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 10: times for not sharing evidence properly through discovery.

583
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 9: Until prosecutors start getting punished for this, either with reversals

584
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 9: or with sanctions, like apparently they're just going to keep

585
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 9: doing it. It is a thing that the Fulton County

586
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 9: like District Attorney's office is doing. And it's not just

587
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 9: this case. They will magically operate a bunch of discovery

588
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 9: at the latest possible moment and not when they immediately

589
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 9: have it, and it's leverage as far as they're concerned.

590
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 11: You say, you've seen it in other cases too.

591
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 9: It's happened to the YFN case, the sort of sister

592
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 9: case to this, where one of the defendants, Bloody j

593
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 9: they drop the charges on him after her discovery demand

594
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 9: by his attorney. That trial, by the way, which has

595
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 9: been delayed a year because of the YFN case or

596
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 9: why is hell case started a jury selection last week.

597
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 10: So one last thing in the same vein, and then

598
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 10: I think we wrap up for today. But you know

599
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 10: this Fannie willis news. There's accusations that she's had some

600
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 10: sort of affair with one of the lead prosecutors on

601
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 10: the Trump case, Right, Nathan Wade is his name?

602
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: Is that?

603
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 9: Right? That is correct?

604
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 10: So we don't want to get into this sort of

605
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 10: details of this, obviously, but I would like to ask

606
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 10: both of you if this could impact this trial at all.

607
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: It's certainly making it harder for jurors to not pay

608
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: attention to anything, because that's kind of their duties, right,

609
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: They're supposed to bury their head in the sand in

610
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: order to maintain a completely unbiased look at the landscape.

611
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: How are the hell are they supposed to do that

612
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: when Fannie Willis is a national figure in part because

613
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: the why Cell trial exists, among others, among others, of course.

614
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 9: Yep, I don't. I don't want to get into funny well,

615
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 9: it's his personal stuff.

616
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 10: I you know.

617
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 9: The problem is there's money on the line, and the biggest,

618
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 9: the bigger than why is okay, So I'll say that,

619
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 9: like prosecuting Trump, probably more important. The thing is like

620
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 9: she's not saying no and so, and as long as

621
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 9: it's out there, like that's the news story. Because we

622
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 9: live in like the hellscape that is twenty twenty four

623
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 9: where this sort of thing is what people pay attention to.

624
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 9: The money is important. I care about the money. I

625
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 9: care about the potential that she was funneling money to

626
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 9: somebody who was ultimately funneling it back to her in

627
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 9: the form of gifts. That's a problem, and.

628
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: It might be considered insults injury, right because I'm seeing

629
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: a new guy in tocologist and she was one of

630
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: the two thousand perspective jurors, you know that was to

631
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 1: be seen for the y Cel trial. And the first

632
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: thing she says about this trial more than anything else,

633
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: is like waste of taxpayer dollars. So imagine, like like

634
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: all of our other constituents, right, like, what are they

635
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: thinking about when they're thinking about the y Cell trial

636
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: taking place? Maybe the first thought isn't like, oh, it's

637
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,479
Speaker 1: great to see you know, people being put to justice

638
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: that we'll finally get a handle of, like this this

639
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: crime wave, the gang problem. The first thought that comes

640
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: to their mind might be, what a waste of my

641
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: tax being dollars? And I don't think this news necessarily helps, No.

642
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 9: Because money because money.

643
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 10: Well, any final thoughts.

644
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 9: You know, there's still a lot of trial here, and

645
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 9: we haven't gotten to the We haven't gotten to the

646
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 9: most important witnesses, in my opinion, the police officers who

647
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 9: had been investigating this case all long, Like they really

648
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 9: haven't testified yet, none of the big like Birdman, Rich

649
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 9: Homie Kwan. You know, there's a whole musical aside of

650
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 9: this because at some point, like basically the defense is

651
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 9: going to say music is on trial. This is what

652
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 9: it looks like, you know, there's there's a lot of

653
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 9: drama coming, you know, and I'm just I'm thinking, this

654
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 9: is the rest of my life now, this is what

655
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 9: I'm going to be doing until I die. That's my

656
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 9: last thought about it.

657
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: All right, Well, the rest of our adult lives are covered,

658
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: and I'm at least glad to be on this ride with.

659
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 9: Both of you.

660
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 10: You know, in the future, we may have some guests,

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Speaker 10: some of the people that we've had on the show,

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Speaker 10: some new people maybe that'll come in and sit with

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Speaker 10: us and talk about this case. We'll be on every

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Speaker 10: other week, and if you have any questions, anything you

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Speaker 10: want to hear us talk about. I think the best

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Speaker 10: way to probably handle that is to hit up George

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Speaker 10: and Christina's Twitter handles. So can you guys just say

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Speaker 10: what those are?

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Speaker 9: My handle is Neon Flag.

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Speaker 11: And mine is Mina an Lee.

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Speaker 7: All Right with that, That.

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Speaker 10: Concludes the very first episode of King Slime, The Discussion.

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Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Airloom Media.

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Speaker 9: It's written and produced by George Cheaty, Christina Lee, and

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Speaker 9: Tommy Andres.

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Speaker 1: Mixing sound design and original music by Evan Tyre and

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Speaker 1: Taylor Chakoi.

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Speaker 9: The executive producer and editor is Tommy andres.

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Speaker 11: Our theme music is by Done Deal.

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Speaker 9: For more shows from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 9: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts