1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest. 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: His name is Jeff Poji and he is the CEO 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: of Macintosh Group, makers of legendary audio file equipment. I'm 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: a bit of a music geek, and when the opportunity 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: came along to speak to the person that's running one 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: of the most renown and highly respected audio gear makers 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: that are out there, I thought I couldn't pass this up. 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: If you're at all interested in c d S or 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: LPs or music generally, if you're at all any type 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: of a gear head, gadgethead, audio file music fan, well 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna find this to be a fascinating behind the 13 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: scenes look at the maker of one of the most 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: prestigious and high ends audio that's out there. If you're 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: not familiar with Macintosh, they're one of the few brands 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: out there that never stopped using tubes, even as technology 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: changed the quality of music. That the warmth, uh, the 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: natural sound out of a tube amplifier is unique. Their 19 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: equipment is not only spectacular, uh it's beautiful looking. It 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: it just has a unique visual feel and it costs 21 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: quite a few sheckles. Their equipment is eye popping lee expensive, 22 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: but for the people who can afford it, they say 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: it's worth it. If you've never had a chance to 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: check out McIntosh equipment, you should pop into an audio 25 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: store as soon as they reopen and just be prepared 26 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: for a live experience. That's what it's like. I found 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: the conversation very interesting and I think you will also, so, 28 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: with no further ado, my interview of Jeff Pogi, cocy 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: E of the Macintosh Group VI is Masters in Business 30 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest this 31 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: week is Jeff Pog. He is the co CEO of 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: the Macintosh Group, the legendary audio file equipment maker. The 33 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: group also manufactures equipment under the Sonas, Faber and Rotel names. Previously, 34 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: Jeff was at Harmon International and the Bose Corporation. He 35 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: comes to us with an NBA from Duke University. Jeff Pogy, 36 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you, Barry. It's great to be here. 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: So I've been looking forward to talking to you for 38 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: some time. I'm I'm a music buff and UH part 39 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: of a decreasingly sized number of audio files. But I 40 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: have to ask you about that good enough seems to 41 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: have taken over the music and audio fields, whether whether 42 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: it's IPO odds or MP three's or streaming. How big 43 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: is the audience for better than just good enough? Well, 44 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: it's a it's an interesting thing because the audience for 45 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: our products has actually been growing every year. Our business 46 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: continues to expand year over year and have done so well. 47 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: McIntosh was founded in so we're looking at seventy one 48 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: years in and this is going to be our best 49 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: year ever. So I think that, you know, the prevailing 50 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: wisdom that says good enough is good enough, maybe we 51 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: need to rethink how we're defining good enough because we 52 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: we seem to be finding an awful lot of fans 53 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: for some you know, authentic high quality audio systems. So 54 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: let's stay with that idea that the concept of just 55 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: good enough, on other words, isn't harming the high ends 56 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. It really seems to be having its 57 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: effect on the middle and low end. Is Is that 58 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: a better way to describe that? Well, I think that 59 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: it's really about I just try to define things about 60 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: the customers, like how is the consumer thinking about the 61 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: domain or the category of products. And if we if 62 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: we want to do a look back at the industry 63 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: and at how do people can consume music? We go 64 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: back to our A M and FM radio. It's right, 65 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: that's where we all started listening to shows and music 66 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: and that was good enough for a long time. But 67 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, and we're still consuming more A M f 68 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: M content than any other media. Right. That's still the 69 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: massive amount of content that we're consuming, but it's actually 70 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: quite low quality when we think about it. Um So, 71 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: I think that as we've looked at other types of 72 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: media to consume music, whether it was alps or tapes 73 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: or CDs. Uh, then we started doing digital downloads, which 74 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: only lasted sort of a blip in the eye, and 75 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: we've moved on to streaming now. Um you know, the 76 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: different media that we're consuming has changed dramatically over time, 77 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: but there's always been a fan base and there's always 78 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: been an audience for people who want, you know, a 79 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: true high performance goose bump, generating emotional feeling to their 80 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: to their music and sound. And that audience is actually 81 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: quite large and it seems to continue to grow every year. 82 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,559 Speaker 1: Quite quite interesting. You're an engineer by training, what drew 83 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: you towards the world of music and audio wents out? Well, Actually, 84 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: I think it's uh, it's an interesting story that you 85 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: and I actually have some overlap in because I know 86 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: you're a bit of a car nut UM and UM. 87 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: I was actually drawn into music through cars. UH, when 88 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: I found a job. I wanted to get into the 89 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: car industry. When I was a couple of years out 90 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: of school and I was a mechanical engineer and I 91 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: was working in factories and I loved building things and 92 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: how things were assembled, and I thought getting into automotive 93 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: industry would be fantastic. And I found a job at 94 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: a company called Harmon International that was a factory making 95 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: loudspeakers and Martinsville, Indiana, and it was a production engineer 96 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: and a quality engineer in the factory and UH was 97 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: in charge of you assembling loudspeakers for automotive use. UM. 98 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: And that was my first real touch into UM, you know, 99 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: the space that I ended up spending my entire plus 100 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: year career in. But really I was attracted for the 101 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: automotive purpose. But once I got into UM, the science 102 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: and the design and the technology of loudspeakers and amplifiers, 103 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: and room acoustics, um, and how it all comes together 104 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: to make a great sound in the challenging car environment. 105 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: It then you know, opened up my my love and 106 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: appreciation for a really higher quality home music listening as well. 107 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: Um and uh that's really how I got got attracted 108 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: to it. And once once I got into the audio business, UM, 109 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: honestly never looked looked back. It's been really a fantastic 110 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: journey that has um you know, been fun from a 111 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: product development standpoint of branding, a marketing and also just 112 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: an overall emotional experience, a very rewarding time. So let's 113 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: stick with cars for a moment. The quality of sounds 114 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: in automobiles has just gone up and up. I have 115 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: a BMW with a bang In oliveson system in it. 116 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: Uh the I think Audie uses them. Also, Meridian seems 117 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: to have found its way uh into maybe it was Lexus, 118 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: I don't remember where that that shows up? What Land, 119 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: What what's going on with the ultra high end space 120 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: in automobiles and what is McIntosh doing if anything in 121 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: that area? Yeah, it sound systems and cars is really 122 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: it's been a fantastic uh, jur Ernie. Over thirty years now, 123 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: from the early eighties when Bows actually first got into 124 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: the business with Cadillac, and then UH Infinity got into 125 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: the business with the Chrysler Group brands, and J B 126 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: L was involved in Lincoln, and it really sort of 127 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: exploded in the eighties and into the nineties, and by 128 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: the mid nineties, UM luxury brands were really starting to 129 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: look at UM the car the automotive o EM business 130 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: as an interesting opportunity and that's where you saw Mark 131 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: Levinthon get involved with Lexis, which was really the first 132 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: sort of super premium brand UM, which then paved the 133 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: way for others like B and O as you've mentioned, 134 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: and Bowers UM. And the quality of the audio systems 135 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: in these cars has just gone up really by leaps 136 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: and bounds over the years UM. And there's a there's 137 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: a couple of key reasons for that. One one of 138 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: the best things about a car is you know exactly 139 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: where the listener is going to be. UM. You know 140 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: you you know the room, you know the size of 141 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: the room, UM, you know where the listener is going 142 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: to be, and so you can really do some amazing optimization. UH. 143 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,119 Speaker 1: And of course, in today's world, with all the BSP technology, 144 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: we have at our fingertips UM you can really do 145 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: some really precise tuning and optimization that we couldn't do 146 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: years ago. UM. Obviously, the challenges of the car industry 147 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: is that while you're in a car, you're moving, there's 148 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: wind noise and road noise. UH, there's a lot of 149 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: reflective surfaces like glass and leather. There's also absorption absorption 150 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: with seats and carpets, so it's a really challenging environment 151 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: to make good sound UM. But it's it's it's been 152 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: an area that's been expanding, you know, year over year, 153 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: and more brands have found their way into it, and 154 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: I think ultimately it benefits consumers because they did a 155 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: fantastic experience and in many cases consumers have the best 156 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: audio system in their car, better than even in their house. UM. 157 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: And with the with the Macintosh group, this has been 158 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: a new area focus for us. So about three years 159 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: ago we U we made a strategic decision to h 160 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: look at the car industry and see if that could 161 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: be the next category of products for us to come 162 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: to market with. But for for the group, what's most 163 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: important to us was to find the right partner. UM. 164 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: We are let's say very conservative in our approach, and 165 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: we are very highly protective of our brands and want 166 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: to make sure that the brand DNA is retained and 167 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: everything we do UM and that really touches all parts 168 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: of our business. And so if we're going to partner 169 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: with a car company, we want to make sure that 170 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: it's a true collaborative effort that can have some amazing 171 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: synergies for for both companies. And uh, you know, just 172 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: recently in September, it was announced that McIntosh has been 173 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: working with the Jeep brand on their brand new Grand 174 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: Wagoneer concept vehicle that was unveiled by by Jeep first 175 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 1: week of September. And we've spent three years working with 176 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: them UM on that vehicle and we have been part 177 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: of every concept design studio activity that they've been doing, 178 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: working with their engineers on integrating all of the different components, 179 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: defining where they need to go, how big they are, 180 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: how we're going to integrate them, UM, how you're going 181 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: to do the tuning, what the industrial design is going 182 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: to look like, what the UI is gonna look like. 183 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: It's been a massive, massive collaborative effort and and something 184 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: we're really really proud of and we think that, you know, 185 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: this collaboration between Jeep, which is arguably the most American 186 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: of American car brands UM and Macintosh, which is, you know, 187 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: the most American of American audio brands UM, and they're 188 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: they're both of those brands being so i'd say, very 189 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: fan base. They have a very strong passionate followings. They 190 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: have a very good reputation for high quality, high performance products. 191 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: And we put all these things together and I think 192 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: it's going to be quite exciting. I would not have 193 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: guessed Geep first as the automotive parallel to Macintosh. I 194 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: was thinking somewhere along the lines of of Bentley or 195 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: asked in Martin not just to stay with British firms 196 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: but more expansive ultra lux products. Am I mischaracterizing who 197 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: your audience normally is? Well, let me let me answer 198 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: that in twofold, because there's a couple different sort of 199 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: chapters of our automotive German journey UM. As you know, 200 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: in addition to the McIntosh brand, we also have the 201 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: Saunas Faber brand, which is our holy owned brand of 202 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: high end loudspeakers that are handcrafted in Italy. Um SNAs 203 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: Farber has recently announced, or I should say Maserati has 204 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: recently announced their MC twenty new high performance vehicle and 205 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: that vehicle is going to be equipped with a SNAs 206 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: Faber system UM, which is really I think an amazing 207 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: high performance luxury brand to brand match, made in Italy, craftsmanship, 208 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: attention to details, looks you know, frankly as sexy as 209 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: it sounds in our case, or looks as sexy as 210 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: it drives in Maserati's case. UM. So that's a much 211 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: more sort of high end premium to premium match, which 212 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: I think works really well for both brands. UM. Coming 213 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: back to the McIntosh question and its partnership with jeep UM. 214 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: You know, McIntosh has a following that is a really 215 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: passionate following of audio files for sevnly plus years UM. 216 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: But most of the McIntosh buyers are very practical people. UM. 217 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: Often times we will hear stories that the McIntosh buyer 218 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: is the person who has saved money for two to 219 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: three years to buy their first piece of McIntosh in 220 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: the year and it becomes a you know, a cherished 221 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: member of the family and that you know they are 222 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: happy to sort of slowly acquire their Macintosh system. Over 223 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: many years UM as opposed to let's they appear high 224 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: net worth UM, you know, disposable income, individual cook and 225 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: drop lots of money and an individual purchase UM. Those 226 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: we certainly have for McIntosh. And there's many rock stars, 227 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: movie stars, you know, Hollywood rich and famous that are 228 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: are fans of our brand UM. And obviously they have 229 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: the means to engage in a and a hundred thousand 230 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: dollars two hundred thousand dollar McIntosh system at once, but 231 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: they're really not the average customer. A Our average customers 232 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: often times are even staring with used gear right there. 233 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 1: McIntosh has a really unique UM attribute and that we 234 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: have probably the highest residual value of the of used 235 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: products on the market. That the brand just holds value 236 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: UM for a long long time, which is very odd 237 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: for audio electronics UM UH. Most brands UH you know, 238 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: depreciate very quickly. But if you buy a new new 239 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: piece of Macintosh, you can often sell it three to 240 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: five years later for very little decrease in your original value. 241 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: And then we're seeing people you know, use that that 242 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: that sale to them buy up to the next next product. 243 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: And so the used market often becomes the entry gateway 244 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: for customers getting into the Macintosh. So back to the 245 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: original sort of notion of his Jeep and McIntosh a 246 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: good fit. I really do believe it is because I 247 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: think that it's this practical view um of of the 248 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: world that both McIntosh and Jeep consumers share. UM. But 249 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: that appreciation for really good, rugged, high performance products, which 250 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: is what you you know, what you get when you 251 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: buy buy a Jeep or or a Macintosh quite fascinating. 252 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about some of the equipment 253 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: that you guys make. Macintosh is legendary for still using 254 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: tubes today to create a much warmer, more natural sound 255 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: than just pure chips. What is it that makes your 256 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: products such best in class? Macintosh has had a long 257 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: history of designing and manufacturing really the most high performance 258 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: precision audio electronics in the industry UM, and a piece 259 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: of this is, frankly, our focus on not only design 260 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: but also on manufacturing and doing both equally as well. UM. 261 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: The the engineering process and the manufacturing process all take 262 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: place in Binghamton, New York, at our manufacturing and engineering 263 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: center that's been there for close to seventy years UM, 264 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: and the engineering and manufacturing teams are working very closely together. 265 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: When you look at a Macintosh product, UM, you see 266 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: these big blue, beautiful meters UM staring at you. That's 267 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: instantly recognizable, the black face, the silver handles around knobs, 268 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, a Macintosh. When you see that consistency of 269 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: product over such a long time, to have such a 270 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: strong visual DNA UM is one of a you know, 271 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: it's a it's proven the test of time. The fact 272 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: that uh the audio circuitry that we design UM uses 273 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: the highest quality components that is a variable available to 274 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: the industry is an important piece of this. Uh. The 275 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: fact that we take the sort of the time and 276 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: effort UM to wind our own transformers in our own factory. 277 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: We actually bend our own metal or form our own 278 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: metal for the cases. We have our own paint line 279 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: that pends the products. We have our own screen printing 280 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 1: area to do the printing. We have our own printed 281 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: circuit board manufacturing area where we populate all of the 282 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: components on the circuit board. Of course, we have a 283 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: very intricate uh testing uh uh system that uh you know, 284 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: uniquely tests and identify every product so that we can 285 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: make sure it meets all other requirements. UM. So really 286 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: having this UH integrated manufacturing process guarantees us that the 287 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: product that we're putting out UM meets all of the 288 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: requirements for McIntosh. So I think it's really this unique 289 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: combination of collaborative engineering and design work that that goes 290 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: hand in hand UM that that that guarantees that that 291 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: that precision and high performance. And I'd have to say 292 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: that that's that culture is probably the one thing that 293 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: really binds together McIntosh and Sonas Faber. So as our 294 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: two main brands that we manufacturer, UM, Sonas Faber is 295 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: sort of appear equivalent to that manufacturing process and design process, 296 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: but for loudspeakers made in Italy and with Sona Swaber, 297 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: we have a very old world craftsmanship process for everything 298 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: from design to sourcing to manufacturing, where our engineering team 299 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: again is all co located with the factory UM and 300 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: all of our suppliers are local to our factory. You know, 301 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: these are very small volume, high precision manufacturers that supplies 302 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: products and then our own assembly people are hand assembling 303 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: the products. In Italy, were hand populating printed circuit boards, 304 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: hand soldering them, or hand wrapping leather around cabinets. It's 305 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: just a really intricate process that helps us, I think, 306 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: design products better because we know how to assemble them 307 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: very well. Let's talk about that design process a little bit. 308 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: How much of what you guys are creating or improving 309 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: or updating is in response to the marketplace and how 310 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: much of it is just, Hey, let's sit down and 311 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: figure out what we can do on our own, using 312 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: our own expertise and talent to to push the envelope 313 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: to the next level. Yeah, it's it's a balance, um. 314 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: You know different innovation processes. Some companies are looking at 315 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: sort of consumer driven innovation where it's very much outside 316 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: and other companies are very much inside out where it's 317 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: it's sort of that coming out of the R and 318 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: D technology portfolio and sort of comes to the market. 319 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: We have a balance of both, and we have a 320 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: bit of a structured product development process that includes, um, 321 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, the marketing group, the engineering group, the sales 322 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: group coming all together, um, along with feedback from key 323 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: dealers and distributors in the sales channel. So we're sort 324 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: of doing that constant sensing of the market to see 325 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: what's going on and to bring those sort of key 326 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: trends in for instant examples would be you know UM 327 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: in the home theater business, when Dolby goes from Dolby 328 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: five point one to seven point one to atmost right, 329 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: there's different trends that are happening in the technologies that 330 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: we need to be sensitive to to make sure that 331 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: we're grabbing those technologies and introducing those to our products 332 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: at the right time. UM UH with the different wireless 333 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: technologies and Bluetooth, Bluetooth High death or UM you have 334 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: the different you know WiFi, UM we have home control 335 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: system integrations. All of these technologies are sort of third 336 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: party technologies that we want to make sure that are 337 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: monitoring and bringing into our products at the right time. 338 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: But then there's the stuff that only we can do 339 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: UM and one example of that would be the recently 340 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: released MC nine oh one. This is a truly only 341 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: Macintosh could do this product. It's a nine watt monoblock 342 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: amplifier UM with a retail price of seventeen And you 343 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: need to write because it's a monoblock, so you have 344 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: to buy drew them together. But the really interesting piece 345 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: of it is it combines we call it a dual 346 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: mono products, so there's actually two audio outputs. One is 347 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: two based three hundred lots of tube based amplification plus 348 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: six hundred lots of solid state amplification, and it's designed 349 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: for a large loudspeaker where you're going to buy amp 350 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: that product and you're going to use the tube power 351 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: stage to drive your mid ranges and tweeters, and you're 352 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: using the solid state to drive your whoofers. It's it's 353 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: really kind of a wacky, crazy product that UM doesn't 354 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: exist on the market anywhere, and it was something that 355 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: our our technology team, our engineering team came up with 356 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: and as soon as we launched it, we sold out 357 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: and we've been back ordered ever since UM because it's 358 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: it's such a unique fun you know, Macintosh on my product. 359 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's part of the fun of the engineers, 360 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: right to let them loose once in a while, to 361 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: do something that you know the market doesn't know it 362 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: is coming. And it certainly seems to have responded to that, 363 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: which which makes me wanna go back to what you 364 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: mentioned about pulling all the teams together. You mentioned engineering 365 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: and sales, but you also mentioned marketing. How do you 366 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: guys market I want to say the product cells itself, 367 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: but I know that's not true. Do you guys advertise? 368 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: What do you do to the Macintosh brand name in 369 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: front of the consumers who were likely bias. Yeah, the 370 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: biggest part of our marketing, UM, we focus a lot 371 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: on PR. We do try to get drive the awareness 372 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: of our new products UM, you know, through various media 373 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: channels to try to get as much exposure as we 374 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: can UM. Over the last many years, like every other company, 375 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: we've moved from you know, traditional print advertising to more 376 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: digital UM search SEO activity because that's how people are 377 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: searching for products these days. You need to be you know, 378 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: online and available and have your products UM be discoverable 379 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: through the digital side and social as well. And we 380 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: spent incrementally every year we and a little bit more 381 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: of our budget UM into the digital social space than 382 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: the year before, so that becomes a you know, a 383 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: bigger portfolio for us to try to engage in communicate 384 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: with customers UM. But for us, a big part of 385 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: our marketing is still a bit old school and it's 386 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: really about UM frankly, getting butts and feet right. If 387 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: I can get you to sit down and listen to 388 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: a pair of Sona Sabra Olympica speakers or Macintosh MC 389 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: six eleven amplifier. I can probably get you to buy it. Um. 390 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: It's the emotional experience that you get when you listen 391 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: to a really great audio system. UM is amazing, right, 392 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: It truly is one of those wild moments, goose bump 393 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: generating times. And if you haven't heard it, you need 394 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: to hear it. UM. And if you have heard it, 395 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: you know what I'm you know speaking of and and 396 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: so a big part of our marketing is really working 397 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: with our dealers and distributors to do events to bring 398 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: people into the stores, to get them in front of 399 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: the product, to get them exposed to the product, and 400 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: give them that emotional uh uh, that emotional opportunity to engage. 401 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: Because these products may look interesting online you can get 402 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: great rite ups and reviews and people can you know, 403 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: from the High five Press can review the products and 404 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: you can get five star awards and it's all great, 405 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: and it all absolutely helps, but there's nothing like actually 406 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: experiencing it for yourself. And it's it's no different than 407 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: any other Passion product. Right. It's one thing to say, 408 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: boy that that you say you drove a BMW that BMW, Boy, 409 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: that looks nice, but it's a different thing to get, 410 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: you know, behind the wheel on a test track and 411 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: really to you know, put it to its uh it's 412 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: full potential. UM gives you a different experience and a 413 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: different appreciation for the product, and so really driving people 414 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: UH into getting great quality demos is the best way 415 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: to market our products. Interesting, it's like the old joke 416 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: writing about music is like dancing about architecture. Doesn't really 417 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: convey the full sense of the moment. There was one 418 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: of my my first mentors, Floyd Tool Dr Floyd Tools 419 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: from UH. He was the the c c TEO of 420 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: harmon Um. He said that basically our job is science 421 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: and the service of art. UM that the job of 422 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: the manufacturer of products right is to preserve the art 423 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: of the creators. And I've that's stuck with me for 424 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: twenty years now that you know, my responsibility is really 425 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: too the musicians, to the producers, to the recording engineers, 426 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: to the people that are creating the art. I'm just 427 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: trying to do our best work to to make their 428 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: effort worthwhile. Quite quite interesting, Let's talk a little bit 429 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: about your title, your co CEO. You don't see a 430 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: lot of that these days. How does that work. What 431 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: are the benefits and challenges of having co CEO SU, Yeah, 432 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: it's for our business. It works honestly extremely well. UM. 433 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: So I joined McIntosh Group just over three years ago 434 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:40,719 Speaker 1: now as the co CEO. Charlie Randall is my partner 435 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: UM and Charlie has been with McIntosh his entire career. 436 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: So he actually started in McIntosh as an intern engineering 437 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: intern out of our I T and has been there 438 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: ever since. Has been president of McIntosh for over a 439 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: decade and UH together we've been co CEOs now for 440 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: the last three years. And the way it works for 441 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: our company is that we are organized really by by brand. 442 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: So Charlie is running McIntosh, I am running SNAs Faber 443 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: and Somko. So those are our three main businesses. Um. 444 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: Everyone knows McIntosh mclabs with all of its products, Sonas 445 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: Faber being our Italian uh loudspeaker brand, and then Smiko 446 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: is our distribution company based in the US that distributes 447 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: many other hi fi audio brands, including Project from Austria 448 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: and Rotel Electronics. And we also distribute Basso Continuo, which 449 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: is a high end Italian hi fi racks um for 450 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: your gear, as well as our own cartridge brand for turntables, 451 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: UM Simico for a cartridges. So the co CDEO job 452 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: works well because, um, we have a very thin group structure. 453 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: The group basically consists of four people. Charlie and I 454 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: are two of them, so there's not much group level 455 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: work to do. So we're allowed to really run our 456 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: businesses as our businesses, and Charlie gets to run McIntosh 457 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: day to day as he always has, and I I 458 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: have the opportunity to lead the Sona Slab and Samiko 459 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: business and we can pretty much work independently and then 460 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: have the advantage of actually use each other as sounding 461 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: boards and um, you know, appears to collaborate with as 462 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: as we as we see fit um. So it gives you, frankly, 463 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: it gives me a great person to bounce ideas off 464 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: of two uh, you know, build strategy off of and uh. 465 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: Then together we sit on the board of directors with 466 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: our investors and represent the total group level performance. So 467 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: it's quite quite a good collaborative effort. We both happen 468 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: to be engineers, we both happen to come from small 469 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: farming communities, and we both happen to love the Pittsburgh Steelers. 470 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: So we've we've got similar backgrounds and and a lot 471 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: of sort of common shared experiences that we can we 472 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: can play off of. Quite interesting. So I was having 473 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: a conversation with a friend about how crazy has been. 474 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: He owns Park Avenue Audio in Manhattan, and he mentions 475 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: that he's projecting is actually going to be a better 476 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: year for the sale of high end audio equipment then 477 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: he saw in which itself was a record breaking year. 478 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: You mentioned something similar, Given all the mayhem of this 479 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: year and the lockdown and the pandemic, why do you 480 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: think this is such a ban a year for high 481 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: ends audio equipment. Yeah, it's It's certainly been the most 482 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: interesting year of my professional career. And as we were 483 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: looking at the world in front of us, you know, 484 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: back in the March April May time frame, it certainly 485 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: didn't look like a banner year. Uh. McIntosh had to 486 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: close its factory for six weeks, right because of the pandemic. 487 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: Sonna's father had to close its factory for a month 488 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: because of the pandemic. Um And it's hard as the 489 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: manufacturer when you build all your own stuff to sell 490 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: things when your factories are closed. Um. So it looked 491 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: a little bit dark for a period of time, for sure, 492 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: But UM, what has happened in the industry is that 493 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: as people have spent more time at home, UM, they 494 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: have spent less time or less money as well on 495 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: other discretionary purchases. And so what seems to be happening 496 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: is the money that used to be spent on vacations, 497 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: on food and dining, on live concerts, on going to 498 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 1: the opera or different shows, that discretionary income is being 499 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: basically used now to upgrade your home. And we see 500 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: a lot of that industry booming. White goods sales are booming, 501 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 1: remodeling projects, home refinancing is booming, and audio and video 502 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: is booming as well. As consumers are spending more time 503 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: in their home, UM, they're investing in their audio systems. 504 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: And really from June forward, UH, every month this year 505 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: has been our bust month effort. It's been sort of 506 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: a record breaking year for the company UM, which is 507 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: quite amazing and we're we're obviously quite thrilled with that 508 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: UM and I'm very very happy UM and we hope 509 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: UM that meant much of this trend continues UM. And 510 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: actually it's more than just the hope, because when you 511 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: start looking at other sort of dynamics that are happening, 512 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,879 Speaker 1: there's actually a number of things that are very quite 513 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: favorable for our industry. I think you mentioned earlier that 514 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: LP sales are are booming, um, and actually they've LP 515 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: sales are are at a record level this year than 516 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: they have been and they've been growing now for a 517 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: decade straight. UM. So if more people are buying records, 518 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: they're going to be buying more audio systems. So that 519 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: trend doesn't seem to be slowing down. It seems to 520 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: have been accelerated by the pandemic, but it's it's going 521 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: to be here for a while. But the other trend 522 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: is as movie theaters and the whole movie industry changes, um, 523 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: that's having a really interesting effect on our business too. Um. 524 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: With AMC announcing its bankruptcy, we know that more consumers 525 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: are going to be watching movies at home, and guess what, 526 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: they're going to be putting in more home theaters, which 527 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: is going to help our business. The latest announcement by 528 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers and HBO with the director streaming releases of 529 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: movies for the next year, that's going to help us 530 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: as well. So there's gonna be more people, you know, 531 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: watching more movies at home. So I think there are 532 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: some other trends that are really favorable to the to 533 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: the industry quite interesting. So that's some of the changes 534 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: that have taken place in Obviously, the shift in in 535 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: movies and streaming video is pretty significant. What sort of 536 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: products are you going to make towards that direction? Obviously 537 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: you've been all audio and and a surround sound either 538 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: preamp or receiver makes sense. You guys aren't going to 539 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: venture towards the video side, are you? No? Uh? The 540 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: way we are looking at uh, this is the industry 541 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: has been shifting from a let's say, a traditional what 542 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,479 Speaker 1: we would call specialty retail store right, which would sell 543 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: goods uh the consumers, towards a project based business, if 544 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: you will, the custom installation business or CDIA channel. UM. So, 545 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: the audio video business really has been moving for a 546 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: number of years from a retail based environment to a 547 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: project based environment. That trend is only accelerating now as 548 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: consumers are they're doing things more than just audio and video. 549 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: Of course, they're putting in wireless networks and lighting controls 550 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: and home controls, safety and security. So stems, and so 551 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: when they think about investing in their home, they're looking 552 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: at a variety of different products and and audio and 553 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: video becomes part of that. And so one of the 554 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: big changes for us is how do we provide more 555 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 1: products that that fit into that sort of project based 556 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,280 Speaker 1: business for your home. On the Sona Spather side, we've 557 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: launched our first line UH in wall and in feeling loudspeakers, 558 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: things that are going to be permanently built into your 559 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: home as opposed to your traditional floor standing or bookshelf speakers. 560 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: So that's been a new development for us that we 561 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: think will be a very good investment and and be 562 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: a good product line for us going forward. UH And likewise, 563 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: Macintosh continues to expand fit line of audio video processors 564 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: and multi channel amplifiers that are more designed for customer 565 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: installation home theater usage. So we think that there's a 566 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: lot of ways that we can tap into that, let's say, 567 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 1: growth of of movie watching or TV watching at home 568 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: UM through the audio space UM. And there's there's a 569 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: very good trend there and one that we we see 570 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: nothing but uh, you know, double digit type growth for 571 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 1: the next few sers. So it sounds like there's a 572 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: little bit of an inherent tension between marketing and sales 573 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: and these projects. Um, as someone who has done a 574 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: couple of these projects from my own home, I know 575 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: what it's like to work with a designer and an 576 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: audio store and say, here's what I want. What technology 577 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: makes this work? With equipment like Macintosh, you really want 578 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: to get those butts in the seats to experience, you know, 579 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: the sound and the whole emotional moment of that. How 580 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: do you reconcile the two? Very often in the homeowner 581 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: is just giving marching orders to an architect, a designer, whoever, whatever. 582 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: And then on top of everything else, the Internet is 583 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,399 Speaker 1: in the middle of all this, and you obviously don't 584 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: get the same experience, especially with audio from the internet 585 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: as you would live and in person and in a 586 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: high end listening environment with top of the line products. 587 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:31,240 Speaker 1: How do you navigate that sort of complex minefield. Yeah, 588 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: for for us, it's you know that demonstration is still 589 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: very important, and so we we have a strong program 590 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: to try to encourage our dealers to set up proper 591 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: demonstration systems right in their show rooms and even the 592 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: project based business, there's many of them. Have you know, 593 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: they're more consumer experience centers. UM they're not retail trade 594 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: trade show stores. But um, these experience centers can often 595 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: house a nice audio video demonstration room, and so we 596 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: do think that that's still an important piece of this. 597 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: But the other advantage we have is that, um, we 598 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: have a very strong brand. Actually we have a you know, 599 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: two very strong brands, McIntosh and Sona's Father, as well 600 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: as the other brands were representing and distribution. But if 601 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: your brand carries that quality and trust factor, oftentimes the 602 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, the designer can sit down with a client 603 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: say you know, I'm going to install a McIntosh home 604 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: theater for you, and here's the you know, the components 605 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: that are going to be used. A lot of clients 606 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: will just trust that it's going to be amazing, right that. 607 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: You know, if if you your brand carries that um, 608 00:43:54,120 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: that reputation UM for for quality and performance, then you 609 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: can you can make it a sale without without the demo. 610 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: I still would prefer the demo because I know that's 611 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: only going to surprise and delight the customer even more. 612 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: But um, that's the power of the brand, and that's 613 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: why the marketing and the pr and the reviews of 614 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: products is still important because you know, oftentimes consumers are 615 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 1: buying things, uh without actually hearing them first. So let's 616 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about vinyl sales. For the first 617 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: time in decades, there are now more sales of albums 618 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: in vinyl than in c D s. What do you 619 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: think this means? Yeah, we saw this coming. Honestly, four 620 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: or five years ago. The number of albums have been 621 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: growing for a good decade. A year over year, album 622 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: sales continue to grow, and over that same period, CD 623 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: sales have continued to shrink, and so there was you 624 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: know of actually we knew there was a crossing point. UM. 625 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: I think it says two things. One, it says streaming 626 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: has dominated and streaming has killed CDs, and that the 627 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: idea of owning CDs in the current generation of consumers 628 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: is a lost art um, and that that is going 629 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: to be the main way to consume music going forward. UM. 630 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: On the LP side of things, I think it's actually 631 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: a bigger reflection on sort of a I guess a 632 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 1: psychological or an emotional sort of change in consumers behaviors. 633 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:46,320 Speaker 1: People that buy LPs and turntables and want to listen 634 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: to UM. Vinyl frankly want to disconnect from their digital 635 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: fast paced, uh sort of hyper daily reality. Right. It 636 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,839 Speaker 1: is so easy to put on a pair of headphones 637 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: and stream Spotify, your title or your favorite service. Um, 638 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: you can do that in an instant and then you 639 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: can jump from song to song, track, the track, album, 640 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: the album instantaneously into all sorts of mix that being 641 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:22,320 Speaker 1: replaced by a turntable vinyl listening experience. Now you're talking 642 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: about I have to actually invest in the activity of 643 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: listening to music. And I really get excited by this 644 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,799 Speaker 1: because that means somebody is saying listening to music is 645 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: important to me. I'm going to spend the time to 646 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: find the album, you know, dig through the collection to 647 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,320 Speaker 1: the one I want put you know, clean it off first, 648 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: put it on the platter, turn it on, sit down, 649 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: probably grab my favorite beverage and listen for minutes until 650 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: I have to flip the album and then repeat the process. 651 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: People that are doing us are truly engaging with their 652 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: music more and it's really exciting because when you look 653 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: at what albums are selling, Um, you have artists like 654 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,800 Speaker 1: Billie Eilish and Taylor Swift right in the top ten artists. 655 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: These are new modern young artists that are are selling 656 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: you know, albums through the roof UM. And to me 657 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,359 Speaker 1: that's exciting. It's not just um the Bruce Springsteens, are 658 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: the Pink Floyds and the Rolling Stones and the Beatles, 659 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: which have classically always been in the top ten, right 660 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: because those are people like maybe me buying the albums 661 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,919 Speaker 1: for the second or third time. UM. But now you've 662 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: got this whole new group of artists that are really 663 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,240 Speaker 1: putting their content out on vinyl and it's really creating 664 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,919 Speaker 1: a whole new experience for a whole new generation of 665 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: of listeners that I think was very well for the 666 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: for the industry, quite quite interesting. And I will make 667 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,800 Speaker 1: note that when I was in college, that's when CDs 668 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: really started emerging and they cost to double what albums do, 669 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 1: and that situation seems to have reversed. Vinyl LPs are 670 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 1: now considerably more expensive, UH than c d s. Is 671 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,320 Speaker 1: that a function of albums being embraced by the audio 672 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:35,279 Speaker 1: file community and there's still some UM negative perception of 673 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:40,320 Speaker 1: the coldness and harshness of compact discs. No, Actually, I 674 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: think that the UH that price change, which is absolutely true, UM, 675 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:50,879 Speaker 1: is more of a function of a basic ask curve 676 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: of an industry. UH. When albums were dominant and c 677 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: d s were in their uh infancy, right, the technology 678 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,359 Speaker 1: cost of producing c ds was very high. People were 679 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: scaling up factories. You had the technology investment to actually 680 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: produce those that was new. There was R and D 681 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,360 Speaker 1: that you had to amortize into the cost of the 682 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 1: CD to produce them, whereas albums were is a very established, 683 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: uh sort of manufacturing process at that point, and so 684 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: you had some volume efficiencies. While you fast forward twenty 685 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: five years in the future and a lot of things 686 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: have happened to the industry. Now c ds cost very 687 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,839 Speaker 1: little because the actual capacity is so underutilized. Right, they 688 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,840 Speaker 1: had all of these factories that built all these c 689 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: ds that now there is no more demand for. So 690 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: the cost of that is down dramatically because you have 691 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 1: an oversupply of capacity and an under under demand. Whereas 692 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: albums actually the capacity dried up and um, the we 693 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: lost a lot of production capacity for albums when when 694 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 1: CDs were booming. And so now that album sales are 695 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 1: growing again, UH, manufacturers actually now has to start investing 696 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: back into making albums again. And and so you've got 697 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,839 Speaker 1: a reinvestment curve that's going to drive some costs. So 698 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 1: there's there's that dynamic which is fundamental. But then I 699 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: think there's a second piece on top of that which 700 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: really gets more to the marketing angle, where uh, in 701 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 1: albums as they traditionally were, they are a source of 702 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,839 Speaker 1: art and inspiration. Right. There's more content when you buy 703 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: an album because you have the five page or six 704 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: page booklet right with all the lyrics of the music 705 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: and art and uh, you know, different content that they 706 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: can deliver to you. And so I think that artists 707 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 1: are investing more into the album to try to make 708 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,919 Speaker 1: it something that has a higher value, um, and they're 709 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: for it's going to have a higher price now. The 710 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: I guess the third dynamic if I was to think 711 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: about this, was the fact that artists can make from 712 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 1: a royalty perspective. Their royalty rates on physical sales of 713 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: albums are much much higher right than a streaming service. 714 00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:25,000 Speaker 1: And so artists are actually really promoting LPs right now 715 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: because their whole financial world has been thrown upside down 716 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: by streaming. Because they're not selling as much physical media 717 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,719 Speaker 1: c ds as they used to be, they've had to 718 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: either two or more, which obviously in the last twelve 719 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,480 Speaker 1: months is impossible, or they have to produce albums as 720 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: their physical media to try to make up for that 721 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: that you know, lost c D royalties. So you you 722 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,799 Speaker 1: mentioned people like Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish. What sort 723 00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,000 Speaker 1: of changes are taking place in music? How does change 724 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 1: eaging music taste effects the way you think about the 725 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,839 Speaker 1: equipment that you guys are are creating. UM. You know, honestly, 726 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:15,960 Speaker 1: we do not believe that the musical styles or genres 727 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: or people's musical preferences have any bearing on the equipment 728 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,920 Speaker 1: that we are producing. UM. It kind of goes back 729 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:30,279 Speaker 1: to the common I made earlier that our job is 730 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:36,000 Speaker 1: to give people the best possible experience when they're listening 731 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,719 Speaker 1: to their music as possible, and I want them to 732 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: get those goose bumps, to have that emotional moment, whether 733 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: it's a tender moment or it's a dynamic, you know, 734 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,799 Speaker 1: violent moment, depending on the type of music that they're 735 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,360 Speaker 1: they're listening to. UM, they should enjoy that in the 736 00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:00,799 Speaker 1: best possible way. And therefore, you know, if our equipment 737 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,240 Speaker 1: UM is able to give them extremely high fidelity performance, 738 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: high dynamics, great sound quality, low distortion, amazing sense of 739 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:20,120 Speaker 1: space and imaging. Regardless of whether you're listening to wrap, classical, 740 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,399 Speaker 1: rock and roll country, I don't think it matters. So 741 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: my stereotype as to who the audio file component purchaser is, 742 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: it tends to be somebody who's more of a classical 743 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: music fan who wants to hear the nuances between the 744 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:44,360 Speaker 1: third violinist and the second viola and really capture the 745 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:49,040 Speaker 1: full spectrum of a of a big orchestra. Is that just, 746 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: you know, a tired stereotype? Is that long past? As 747 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,799 Speaker 1: to who the purchasers of Macintosh equipment are, I don't 748 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: think it's an old stereo type. I think it's just 749 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,000 Speaker 1: five percent of the population. UM. I think that there's 750 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people that are passionate classical musical fans 751 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,440 Speaker 1: and that they really can get extreme value from a 752 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:23,040 Speaker 1: high quality audio system, and that for all the reasons 753 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,760 Speaker 1: you you just describe, because of the level of detail 754 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,799 Speaker 1: and dynamics that you can really get and there's an 755 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:35,840 Speaker 1: appreciation for the are in a very strong way. UM. 756 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,280 Speaker 1: But I do believe that that's a that's a small 757 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,560 Speaker 1: part of the population. I would say it's if I 758 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:46,799 Speaker 1: drew a parallel back to the car industry. Um, you know, 759 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 1: BMW makes the the the M M three and they 760 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,319 Speaker 1: also make all the three series. Well, the M three 761 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 1: is only less than five percent of the population of 762 00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:00,399 Speaker 1: those vehicles, but they advertise it all the time and 763 00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,920 Speaker 1: they use it as their performance halo. But most people don't, 764 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, don't go there. They just drive around to 765 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,759 Speaker 1: the grocery store and back and they're their three stories. Um, 766 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,120 Speaker 1: so they don't don't really use it for that. And 767 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: I think maybe that's a similar parallel where you don't 768 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,719 Speaker 1: have to be a classical musical fan to get all 769 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:27,200 Speaker 1: the enjoyment out of a high quality loudspeaker um system, 770 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: high quality audio system. You can enjoy it for what 771 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 1: you do, and it's going to give you an immense 772 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,920 Speaker 1: set of pleasure, um, whether you're listening to you know, 773 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,440 Speaker 1: classic rock or not. I am a huge classic rock 774 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:46,279 Speaker 1: san and that is my my go to genre. And 775 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: I can promise you that I much enjoy listening to uh, 776 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, Bruce Pinksteen and Pink Floyd and I led 777 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,959 Speaker 1: Zeppelin on my Macintosh and sona spaper system much better 778 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,640 Speaker 1: than you know, my Apple. I wouldn't doubt that for 779 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,359 Speaker 1: a second. You know what's kind of fascinating is that 780 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 1: we when I was younger, your entertainment options were far 781 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,640 Speaker 1: more limited than they are today, and and the thought 782 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 1: of having friends over having a listening party for a 783 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:23,440 Speaker 1: new release was was not uncommon. Today. I have so 784 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,240 Speaker 1: many different ways to listen to music, but I find 785 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,759 Speaker 1: myself doing much less of Let me just stop for 786 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,200 Speaker 1: forty five minutes and listen to an album straight through, 787 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 1: as opposed to having something playing in the background while 788 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,080 Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing something else. So the question I want 789 00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,640 Speaker 1: to get towards is is the LP is the album 790 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 1: still the sort of entertainment events that it once was? 791 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 1: And if it's not, how long is that audience going 792 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,160 Speaker 1: to continue to engage age and that sort of behavior. 793 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:06,320 Speaker 1: I think that the way I see that dynamics between 794 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,520 Speaker 1: consumers engaging in albums, let's say, versus streaming UM is 795 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:20,120 Speaker 1: streaming becomes the first choice for convenience. Right, that's just 796 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,520 Speaker 1: easy to access, easy to use. UM I can take 797 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:29,560 Speaker 1: it anywhere with me, and it's great for music discovery. Right. 798 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: I can find new artists so quick and fast when 799 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,800 Speaker 1: I when I do searches and it can give me 800 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,480 Speaker 1: recommendations of what artists are similar to others, And that, 801 00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,160 Speaker 1: honestly is such a great power that we've never had 802 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,200 Speaker 1: in the industry that I think it's a super benefit 803 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,920 Speaker 1: because it's introducing people to many more types of music 804 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,920 Speaker 1: and many more artists and maybe they would have found 805 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: on their own, let's say in the old days, um. 806 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,200 Speaker 1: But then if they really attached to something, they're going 807 00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,280 Speaker 1: to go out and buying a physical copy of it, right, 808 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,440 Speaker 1: and then exploring that same content that they had on 809 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:10,600 Speaker 1: the streaming service. But then inn LP UM or possibly 810 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,520 Speaker 1: a c D or s a c D if they 811 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,240 Speaker 1: still enjoy those. But that's how I see the dynamics. 812 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,720 Speaker 1: So I do see the the album or the vinyl 813 00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:26,080 Speaker 1: experience not as a everyday listening experience. I see that 814 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:30,040 Speaker 1: as a special moment in time, right. It's it's it's 815 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,960 Speaker 1: it is a time that you're investing with your music. 816 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,040 Speaker 1: That it's something you you you you have to sort 817 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,800 Speaker 1: of plan for because um, it's not a five minute, 818 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 1: instantaneous um sort of response. So I think that that 819 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:52,600 Speaker 1: the fact that LPs are growing um year over year 820 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,960 Speaker 1: is really good because it's saying more consumers are willing 821 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,520 Speaker 1: to spend more time with their music and that they're 822 00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:05,280 Speaker 1: getting more value out of that. Um, that that experience. 823 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:10,640 Speaker 1: And so I think that these two very different mediums 824 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:16,520 Speaker 1: actually cohabitat together co you know, survived together in a 825 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,440 Speaker 1: very interesting way and can actually help each other. I'm 826 00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,440 Speaker 1: gonna uh sell me an upgrade my home system. I 827 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,680 Speaker 1: have a couple of different ways I listen to music 828 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,920 Speaker 1: just for background. In the kitchen, we have a Sona 829 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:36,240 Speaker 1: streaming system outside a so Nance system that I have 830 00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:40,720 Speaker 1: hooked up to a blue Sound vault drive. In the den, 831 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: I have a Hotel home theater preamp driven by a 832 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:49,480 Speaker 1: Class A amp going through Bowers and Wilkins speakers being 833 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: w speakers. What what should I do? And a Rotel 834 00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: c D player? What should I do? If I want 835 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,200 Speaker 1: to upgrade that system to the next level? You know, 836 00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,680 Speaker 1: I uh, I would want to know more things about 837 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,320 Speaker 1: your room and your room size before I was to 838 01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,840 Speaker 1: be presumptuous to define it for you, but um, you know, 839 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:15,880 Speaker 1: I think that um, it's it's really about your level 840 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:20,440 Speaker 1: of enjoyment, you know. And we have obviously a wonderful 841 01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:25,520 Speaker 1: range of products at Sonas Faber. Our entry level product 842 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,920 Speaker 1: for your loudspeakers goes from our Luminus series that are 843 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,960 Speaker 1: starting at around two thousand dollars for a floor standing 844 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,560 Speaker 1: pair of speakers all the way up to our Aida 845 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:41,640 Speaker 1: which is you know, a hundred and dollars UM. So 846 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,760 Speaker 1: it's really all about the physical size of the room. UM. 847 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,560 Speaker 1: That's a big part of of how you would size 848 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: your loudspeaker, and also about the UH you know, the 849 01:00:55,120 --> 01:01:01,160 Speaker 1: overall sound quality that you'd like to achieve. And depending 850 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,320 Speaker 1: on those specifications, there's lots of choices that I think 851 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:10,280 Speaker 1: can be amazing UM. And then the Macintosh amplifier family 852 01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:15,840 Speaker 1: and pre amplifier and CDs and turntables all scale in 853 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:21,400 Speaker 1: a very similar way where we offer consumers the ability 854 01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:29,600 Speaker 1: UM to UH everything. Our renewest McIntosh turntables actually is 855 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:35,120 Speaker 1: a full integrated yet that as the amplifier D class 856 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:41,120 Speaker 1: amplifier built into the turntable with a Bluetooth Apptex receiver 857 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:45,560 Speaker 1: in it. So if you wanted to just have one 858 01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:51,440 Speaker 1: piece of electronics, you could buy UH this product and 859 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 1: actually do your streaming and your LP playing all from 860 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,120 Speaker 1: one and all you need is a pair of speakers. 861 01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,800 Speaker 1: So so it's a very flexible product line that has 862 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: lots of different solutions. UM. But I'd want to know 863 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,160 Speaker 1: a lot more before I give you specific recommendations, all right, 864 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,919 Speaker 1: So so let me flip the question on. You tell 865 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,320 Speaker 1: us about the system that you have at home. What 866 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,960 Speaker 1: do you enjoy your favorite classic rock albums? On? What? 867 01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: What's that system look like? Oh? Yeah, thanks, it's uh, 868 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,720 Speaker 1: it's I guess my third child, if you will. UM, 869 01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:31,040 Speaker 1: the I have sonas Farber Olympica Nova fives, which we 870 01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: just launched about a year and a half ago. Really 871 01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:41,640 Speaker 1: a fantastic flour standing a loud speaker, and I have 872 01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:46,720 Speaker 1: a full McIntosh set of electronics behind that. UM, a 873 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:55,040 Speaker 1: C tube pre amplifier, the m T five McIntosh turntable, uh, 874 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,600 Speaker 1: the m c T s, a c d CD player 875 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,040 Speaker 1: because I one of those old old guys that still 876 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,720 Speaker 1: has a rack of hundreds of CDs and I actually 877 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,760 Speaker 1: pick them out sometimes. UM, and an MC two which 878 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:16,760 Speaker 1: is a stereo amplifier driving the whole thing. UM. And 879 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:21,840 Speaker 1: for streaming, I added in projects stream box that's to Ultra, 880 01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:26,200 Speaker 1: which is a fantastic little streaming box that allows me 881 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:30,360 Speaker 1: to connect with ruined title Cobus and do all my 882 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 1: my streaming interesting. I too, am one of those old 883 01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:39,440 Speaker 1: school c D users, but I recently started moving them 884 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:43,200 Speaker 1: all to a hard drive in a lossless fashion. It's 885 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,200 Speaker 1: the Blue Sounds Vaults, and my plan is to eventually 886 01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,640 Speaker 1: just put a few thousand discs on that and then 887 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,439 Speaker 1: just keep them shelved in the basement where I don't 888 01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:57,080 Speaker 1: have to hunt for exactly the one I'm looking for it. 889 01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,800 Speaker 1: I'll just be able to scroll and find it and 890 01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 1: theoretically have full CD quality sound. Let me throw a 891 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:09,080 Speaker 1: curveball at you. And espresso machines are the MP three 892 01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:15,840 Speaker 1: audio of coffee makers discuss. I disagree. I think espresso 893 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:20,360 Speaker 1: machines are fantastic for their convenience and speed. Um. And 894 01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,640 Speaker 1: I have one in my home and I think it's fantastic. Um. 895 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,800 Speaker 1: I you know, I think it's It's a fun copy 896 01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,720 Speaker 1: to me is a really fun topic. I very much 897 01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,680 Speaker 1: enjoy it. I love nothing more than when I'm in 898 01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,840 Speaker 1: Italy to go to a proper barista and get a 899 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:43,720 Speaker 1: proper espresso and and really enjoy it standing up at 900 01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,480 Speaker 1: the bar with the colleagues and chatting, which is the 901 01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:50,320 Speaker 1: only way to do it. Um, but honestly, it's not 902 01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,960 Speaker 1: something I have the time or patience to do myself. 903 01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,840 Speaker 1: And I think it's one of those wonderful things in 904 01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:01,640 Speaker 1: life where everybody has their they're thing that they're willing to, 905 01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, go that extra quality step and and really 906 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,160 Speaker 1: put the time and effort into doing it just right. 907 01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,480 Speaker 1: And if you wanted to come over and make me 908 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,680 Speaker 1: a proper espresso, I would happily enjoy it, but I 909 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,480 Speaker 1: don't have the time to do it myself. Now I 910 01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,400 Speaker 1: have to imagine that that sort of comments is what 911 01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are audio purchasers say. Yeah, 912 01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,920 Speaker 1: that that's a nice system, but I just want convenience. 913 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't want expense, I don't want complexity. Just just 914 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,880 Speaker 1: give me a simple sort of thing. And on the 915 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,800 Speaker 1: coffee side, the technology has advanced to the point where 916 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:47,600 Speaker 1: you could get practically those sort of instant coffee convenience. 917 01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,000 Speaker 1: Take a look at something like the Brevel Oracle Touch, 918 01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,600 Speaker 1: where they literally do everything from the grinding to the 919 01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,000 Speaker 1: tamping to you know, your job is to to move 920 01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,600 Speaker 1: the container of steam mill to pour it into the 921 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:06,760 Speaker 1: shot of espresso, which seems to be worth it for 922 01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:11,920 Speaker 1: the for the improvement in quality both fields coffee and audio. 923 01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,080 Speaker 1: The law of diminishing returns kicks in as as the 924 01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,800 Speaker 1: price goes up. But this really seems to be something 925 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:22,600 Speaker 1: that the technology has advanced dramatically over the past couple 926 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,800 Speaker 1: of years. So I'm going to steer you in that direction. 927 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,760 Speaker 1: So I was just so amused that that you were 928 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:33,840 Speaker 1: not as ritualistic and obsessive about your coffee as I 929 01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:37,360 Speaker 1: assume you are about your your sound systems. And to me, 930 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:41,680 Speaker 1: that's part of the same continuum. It's it's how much 931 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,920 Speaker 1: do you want to spend an effort, energy and time 932 01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:50,560 Speaker 1: for that next level up in quality. Yeah, I love this, uh, 933 01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,440 Speaker 1: this kind of conversation because I think it applies to 934 01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,080 Speaker 1: so many different aspects of life, and I think it, frankly, 935 01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,400 Speaker 1: is what makes the world go round because each of 936 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,160 Speaker 1: us have our own sort of passion areas that we're 937 01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,640 Speaker 1: willing to you know, we're willing to do whatever it 938 01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,440 Speaker 1: takes to get that perfect level of performance, and in 939 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:14,400 Speaker 1: other places we we shortcut um. You know. I I've 940 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:19,040 Speaker 1: been accused of being unsophisticated because I don't wear a watch. 941 01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,200 Speaker 1: I've just never been a watch player, and a lot 942 01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,840 Speaker 1: of people are in a similar domain with watches where 943 01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,880 Speaker 1: you can get these amazing time pieces which which I 944 01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,360 Speaker 1: really can appreciate from it afar, but they just don't 945 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:39,120 Speaker 1: fit you know, my DNA A right. And plus every 946 01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,560 Speaker 1: one of us walks around with a phone in our pocket, 947 01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:47,800 Speaker 1: which gives you precise atomic set time. Um So, so 948 01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:52,720 Speaker 1: watches have become um as much decorative as as anything. 949 01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Um So, I know I only have you for a 950 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,480 Speaker 1: limited amount of time. Let me jump to my favorite 951 01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:02,440 Speaker 1: questions that I ask all. I guess so we mentioned 952 01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,640 Speaker 1: video earlier. Tell us what you're streaming these days? What's 953 01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:10,080 Speaker 1: your favorite Netflix or Amazon Prime or or podcast? What's 954 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,360 Speaker 1: keeping you entertained? Oh yeah, so there's there's some great 955 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:19,160 Speaker 1: stuff that we're uh, we're engaging with. So with the family, 956 01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,479 Speaker 1: we are absolutely in love with Ship's Creek. Um that's 957 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever enjoyed that, but it's 958 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,400 Speaker 1: a it's a wonderful program that we discovered too late, 959 01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:34,160 Speaker 1: and so we're trying to catch up. Um And that's 960 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,960 Speaker 1: that's our family entertainment. My wife and I are watching 961 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:43,479 Speaker 1: Go Mora, which is an Italian uh sort of crime 962 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,439 Speaker 1: you know, mob drama, that's that's that was produced, you know, 963 01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,720 Speaker 1: in an Italian and I think I'm watching that to 964 01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,880 Speaker 1: to help me with my you know, my Italian for 965 01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:59,400 Speaker 1: my my Souna's father team as well. So that's that's great. Um, 966 01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:05,280 Speaker 1: those are the two shows that I'm watching regularly. And 967 01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:11,120 Speaker 1: then um uh, the other thing that I enjoy uh 968 01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,040 Speaker 1: privately is books on tape by I do a lot 969 01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,479 Speaker 1: of listen listening to books on tape and I just 970 01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,400 Speaker 1: finished the Iliad, which I had never read or listened 971 01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,760 Speaker 1: to previously, So that that's been pretty interesting. Tell us 972 01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:30,320 Speaker 1: about your early mentors who helped shape your career. Well, 973 01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,000 Speaker 1: it all, well, it all starts with I think my mom, 974 01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:38,479 Speaker 1: uh is she Uh, She's a fantastic lady. Single mom, 975 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 1: raised myself and my older sister, just you know, really 976 01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:51,080 Speaker 1: hard working, uh sort of small tarn a small town, 977 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,240 Speaker 1: uh you know, sort of. I'd just call it country farm, 978 01:09:55,400 --> 01:10:00,960 Speaker 1: hard working values, truth, honesty, hard work. I'll started there. 979 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:07,200 Speaker 1: And my first uh, one of my first bosses, Paul 980 01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:14,120 Speaker 1: Nate from Harmon great sales executive. He I attribute him 981 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:18,679 Speaker 1: to really helping me. Um. I can remember the moment 982 01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,679 Speaker 1: where I went from being an engineer to going into 983 01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:27,679 Speaker 1: the sales group, which I can still remember a Dilbert 984 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:31,960 Speaker 1: cartoon about this, saying, you know how insulting that is 985 01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:36,759 Speaker 1: for an engineer to move into sales. And he actually 986 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,920 Speaker 1: sold me on the benefits of going into sales as 987 01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,559 Speaker 1: an engineer to learn about customers and to learn about 988 01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,360 Speaker 1: what the customers want, the need to how to how 989 01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,800 Speaker 1: to help them. That if you you understood your customers 990 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,960 Speaker 1: and you listen to them, you will be a better engineer, 991 01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,640 Speaker 1: you will be a better product developer, and then it 992 01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,320 Speaker 1: would be an important skill for you to develop. And 993 01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,800 Speaker 1: um I was really an important sort of moment for me, 994 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,280 Speaker 1: and he was a great mentor for me in that regards. 995 01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,479 Speaker 1: And also just uh, to teach the skills they don't 996 01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:15,320 Speaker 1: teach you in engineering school. You know about person building, 997 01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:21,479 Speaker 1: relationships with people, customer relationship management, influencing skills, all of 998 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,160 Speaker 1: the soft things that really, over the course of a 999 01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,120 Speaker 1: career end out being probably more important than the hard 1000 01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,639 Speaker 1: technical skills that you learn in school all those years ago. 1001 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:38,240 Speaker 1: So Paul was really a fantastic mentor for me um 1002 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,519 Speaker 1: early on in my career. Interesting, tell us some of 1003 01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,200 Speaker 1: your favorite books. What what are you reading now? What 1004 01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:47,960 Speaker 1: what are some of your all time favorites? This is 1005 01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,840 Speaker 1: how a passionate reader usually multiple books going on at 1006 01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:57,639 Speaker 1: any given time. UH. My most recent reads this year 1007 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,120 Speaker 1: I fell in love with Simon sin Um start with 1008 01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,840 Speaker 1: Why was the first book he put out probably a 1009 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:09,599 Speaker 1: decade ago, really wonderful book. Uh. He did a couple 1010 01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: others after that. Leaders in the Last Infinite Game was 1011 01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:18,600 Speaker 1: his most recent one, and it's really a great content 1012 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,519 Speaker 1: to help companies. I think really remember sort of more 1013 01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:28,519 Speaker 1: of a personal truth and keep grounded and why we 1014 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:32,880 Speaker 1: as businesses exist um, which is much much more than 1015 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,800 Speaker 1: profit and loss. UM. So Simon Sinek, I have to 1016 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,000 Speaker 1: say as a really highly regarded and one of my 1017 01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:44,479 Speaker 1: my latest reads UM all time favorites. UM. I go 1018 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,759 Speaker 1: back to Stephen Covey seven Half at the Highly Effective People, 1019 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:52,200 Speaker 1: probably the most influential book on me in my entire life. UM. 1020 01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:56,320 Speaker 1: Still have a copy right and back at my desk. UM. 1021 01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,400 Speaker 1: Really a great foundational book I think for for young 1022 01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:04,000 Speaker 1: people that about how to approach the world. UM. Some 1023 01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:08,840 Speaker 1: of the more business focused books like Jack Welsh's book 1024 01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:15,080 Speaker 1: Winning UM Ram Suran Larry Bossy's book Execution really sent 1025 01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,800 Speaker 1: a core managerial books of you know, how to run 1026 01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:23,720 Speaker 1: a business or a company. I think those were fantastic. UM. 1027 01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:27,200 Speaker 1: John Maxwell's got a bunch of books on leadership, uh 1028 01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,479 Speaker 1: five Level Levels of Leadership that I think was a 1029 01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,680 Speaker 1: spectacular book on leadership UM. And actually another book I 1030 01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:43,080 Speaker 1: just reread, UM Clayton Christiansen, famous innovation author from that 1031 01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:47,680 Speaker 1: had passed away last fall, his book The Innovator's Dilemma UM, 1032 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:53,400 Speaker 1: which was written probably fifteen twenty years ago. Now, UM, 1033 01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,599 Speaker 1: which I read a long time ago. I reread just 1034 01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,040 Speaker 1: sort of an honored his passing. That's a fantastic list 1035 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,719 Speaker 1: to start with. What sort of advice would you give 1036 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:06,120 Speaker 1: to a recent college graduate who was interested in a 1037 01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:10,200 Speaker 1: career in the audio industry. The advice I'd give to 1038 01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:15,040 Speaker 1: a recent college grad would be find find a career 1039 01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:19,160 Speaker 1: that you love, find something that you are passionate about, 1040 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:27,360 Speaker 1: and do it with conviction. UM. Don't chase promotions, salaries, titles. 1041 01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:31,719 Speaker 1: Be true to yourself and what makes you happy, because 1042 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:33,800 Speaker 1: in the long run, you're going to be way more 1043 01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,920 Speaker 1: successful if you if you follow, uh, follow the things 1044 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,640 Speaker 1: that are really interesting to you. That's sort of you know, 1045 01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:46,799 Speaker 1: you're emotionally connected with UM. That's foundational. I would also 1046 01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:53,360 Speaker 1: encourage them to UM learn about emotional intelligence early. It's 1047 01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,800 Speaker 1: not a topic that they teach in universities UM, and 1048 01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:01,559 Speaker 1: it's usually not something as young people were very good at. UM. 1049 01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 1: Usually we're as a young person, you're out to prove 1050 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:09,519 Speaker 1: yourself and what your own abilities are and what your 1051 01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:14,880 Speaker 1: contributions can be UM. Really being reflective on on what 1052 01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:18,200 Speaker 1: you're good at, what your colleagues are good at, where 1053 01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:23,639 Speaker 1: your weaknesses are in being humble UM and recognizing that 1054 01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:31,280 Speaker 1: teams win championships, not individuals UM. I think that's the 1055 01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:35,920 Speaker 1: foundational sort of spirits that I think set everybody apart. 1056 01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,840 Speaker 1: I don't think anything in business has ever been done 1057 01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,280 Speaker 1: by one person, or at least not anything that's worth anything, 1058 01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,320 Speaker 1: let's say, or anything of of a sort of material impact. 1059 01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,000 Speaker 1: You really do need a group of people to get 1060 01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:51,640 Speaker 1: something done and and really building those those sort of 1061 01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:57,080 Speaker 1: team skills UM, I think are critically important early on 1062 01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,280 Speaker 1: in your career. And our final question, what do you 1063 01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:04,240 Speaker 1: know about the world of audio and audio file equipment 1064 01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:07,639 Speaker 1: today that you wish you knew twenty or so years 1065 01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:13,240 Speaker 1: ago when you were first ramping up in this business. UM. 1066 01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:19,400 Speaker 1: You know, the audio file or audio industry is a 1067 01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:28,040 Speaker 1: it's a very small, hobbyist industry with lots of really 1068 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:34,680 Speaker 1: super passionate people. And UM, I think that the thing 1069 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:39,000 Speaker 1: I've learned the most over the years is that our 1070 01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:43,080 Speaker 1: business is less about competing with other audio file firms 1071 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:47,160 Speaker 1: or other audio firms, and it's more about growing the 1072 01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:53,800 Speaker 1: entire industry. We together as a community of audio companies. UM, 1073 01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:58,240 Speaker 1: if we do a better job getting those butts and seats, 1074 01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,400 Speaker 1: getting more consumers to come two dealers and listen to 1075 01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:04,800 Speaker 1: the gear, regardless of the brand that it is, we're 1076 01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,200 Speaker 1: going to build a bigger basic consumers for everyone, and 1077 01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:12,559 Speaker 1: that's gonna effectively grow the industry across the board. And 1078 01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:17,480 Speaker 1: so I think that building of a collaboration amongst companies 1079 01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,760 Speaker 1: together to build the industry UM is something that's really 1080 01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:26,559 Speaker 1: important to me today, UM, but not something I was 1081 01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:30,760 Speaker 1: aware of many years ago. Quite fascinating. Jeff, thank you 1082 01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,800 Speaker 1: for being so generous with your time. We have been 1083 01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:37,640 Speaker 1: speaking with Jeff Pogi. He is the co CEO of 1084 01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:41,559 Speaker 1: Macintosh Group. If you enjoy this conversation, well be sure 1085 01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,960 Speaker 1: and check out any of the other four hundred or 1086 01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,519 Speaker 1: so such conversations we've put together over the past six 1087 01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:51,640 Speaker 1: and a half years. You can find that at iTunes, Spotify, 1088 01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:56,679 Speaker 1: wherever you usually feed your podcast fix. We love your comments, 1089 01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:00,760 Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at M I B 1090 01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,920 Speaker 1: Podcast at Bloomberg dot net. Give us a review on 1091 01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,439 Speaker 1: Apple iTunes. Be sure to sign up for our daily 1092 01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:10,839 Speaker 1: reads at Rid Halts dot com. Check out my weekly 1093 01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,800 Speaker 1: column on Bloomberg at Bloomberg dot com slash Opinion. Follow 1094 01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,120 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at rit Haltz. I would be remiss 1095 01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:21,120 Speaker 1: if I did not thank the crackstaff that helps us 1096 01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:25,160 Speaker 1: put these conversations together each week. Nick Falco is my 1097 01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:30,320 Speaker 1: audio engineer. Michael Boyle is my producer. Mike Batnick is 1098 01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:34,160 Speaker 1: my head of research. Attica val Bron is our project manager. 1099 01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:38,720 Speaker 1: I'm Barry Riholtz. You've been listening to Master's Business on 1100 01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:39,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.