WEBVTT - Part Two: A Terrible Story About The Internet 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:15.200 H h, well I did it. That was yeah, please absolutely, 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:24.040 Chris make it horny, like like really horny. Well, this 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.480 is Behind the Bastards podcast that is introduced the way 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.400 I just introduced it. What are you going to do 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.479 about it? Find another show. I'm gonna listen to someone else. No, 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.319 you're not. You're stuck here. You're stuck here with me, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.159 with me and with Margaret Kiljoy. Margaret, welcome to the show. Hello. 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.800 How are you doing, Margaret? I'm doing great. Nothing bad 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.880 or sad as happened, and I'm sure that we're gonna 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:53.440 be talking about sunny sunshine roses. Yeah. I like thinking 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.400 about good things. You know, did a lot that makes 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.680 me angry in the world, Like, for example, Hollywood didn't 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.320 really do anything good with didn't do enough good with 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.080 Bruce Campbell when he was like young and super hot. 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.720 What's what's up with that? How could you not? I 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.360 just someone wants to talk about this on Twitter and 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.679 they're right, like, how was he not in more stuff 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.679 when he was like, you know, army of darkness young? Like, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.600 how do you not make maximum use of that guy? 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:24.440 It's unbelievably infuriating. Yeah, his jaw is just left incredible 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.319 on Yeah, you could bludgeon people to death with that 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.679 jaw and they'd be happy about it. And you can 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.759 almost kill him in every movie. Sam Raimi nearly murdered 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.199 that man like thirty times, and Bruce just kept coming 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:40.479 back for more, Like what a hero? Anyway a hero? 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.959 I feel like we really lost out on some great 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.680 Bruce Campbell movies, like why not just kidd no no, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.040 But just like when he was like super young, right, 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.080 he's been great. He's he's aged into a wonderful career. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.080 Is like the old guy kind of aging action hero 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:00.280 type character. He does that in a lot of that 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.760 and burn notice and in the in the Ash Versus 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.920 the Evil Dead show, Like he's had a wonderful career. 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.760 I'm sure he's very happy. But like young Bruce Campbell, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:12.520 think about like why not why not try him as 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.560 a superman, Like just throw it in there, just see 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:16.679 what we get, you know, just cast Bruce Campbell is 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.480 Superman and let it happen um and have Sam Raimie directed, 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.320 Like my god, can you imagine that movie? That would 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:30.000 have been nuts. I'm trying to delay us getting back 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.920 to a very uncomfortable series of conversations. Yeah, because it's 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.239 about to get a lot worse. Um. Thanks, thanks everyone 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:45.120 for tuning into this episode where there's absolutely like no no, 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.160 no joy, Like we can't, we don't even get like 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.400 the moment of laughing at at Hitler being given fucking 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.760 cocaine by his doctor who's angry at the other doctor 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.560 for giving him herold, like, those are the good moments, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.240 Those are the ones that made this show with it. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:05.160 None of those in this story. So yeah, when we 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.480 last left off Christine, she had provided four chan with 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.520 evidence of that she was not you know that she 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.000 was straight by giving hand drawn pornography of one of 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.960 her few real life friends, which is bad bad call, um, 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.799 generally bad call. Not generally a bad call, always a 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.120 bad call. Don't what if it had worked, though? What 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.400 if the friend had been like, it's true, I've been 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.200 thinking about you this whole time. That's not a zero 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.880 percent chance, but it's not a betting chance. Like someone 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.160 out there there kink would be realizing that their friend 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.960 had had, without asking for their consent, written pornography about 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.600 them and handed it to fortune. That person exists, right, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:49.080 but yeah enough, yeah, um, but that person is also 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:54.600 on four chan. Right, so there is a there is 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.760 a um. Yeah. Anyway, so this goes bad and it 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.400 also kind of super charges this growing fandom. It is 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.000 kind of a fandom. I think you have to look 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.280 at it that way. Um. Around Christian like people realize 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.080 not only does this person respond when you poke them, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:13.920 which is like the number one thing that lets a 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.880 bully no, it's time to keep on bullying, um, but 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.840 that you can get incredible content out of like lying 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.040 about them on the internet and waiting for them to 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:29.000 correct you in ways that make their entire life worse. Um. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.200 So you know she has she has basically proven herself 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.600 to be like a comedy pinada for these people, right, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:39.760 That's that is how they're looking at it. Um. So yeah, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.200 um it's not great. This all sets off a three 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.760 year period of near constant baiting by trolls, most of 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:52.279 whom would pretend to be women um interested in dating Christine. Um, 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:53.839 so they would they would reach out to her and 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:55.839 like they would cat fish her with like photos and 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.400 messages with the goal of getting her to like reveal 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.000 shameful things to them. And again, this is a thing 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.440 that happens a lot to all sorts of people. Now, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.920 this didn't really happen much like two eight, two nine. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.880 This is not as nearly as common as it would be. Um, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.960 and especially it was not a thing that people did 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.800 to create content for huge anonymous masses of Internet users. 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.960 Like this is really where that begins. Yeah, one of 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.200 the first of these trolls convinced convinced Christine to mail 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.039 them her beloved sonnet U medallion, this thing that she's 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.479 like made, that she wears everywhere. That's like her most 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.280 valued possession in the world. So this person pretends to 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.400 be a girl who's interested in her and like asks 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.839 for the medallion is like a token of love. And 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.560 then when they get it, they post a video of 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:48.039 themselves smashing it and lighting it on fire. Um cool, Yeah, good, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.760 we we really made a good thing with the Internet. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:55.479 You think back to like people saying like, oh, this 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.400 is when people are connected. It's going to make some 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.400 of the evils of the twentieth centre impossible to repeat. No, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.640 it's it's just gonna mean that like when the evils 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.400 of the twentieth century are repeated, we like throw a 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:15.240 fucking uh whatever um trance wave or whatever filter on 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.200 it and stick like a meme joke on it. We 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.680 sell t shirts of it and ship like I might 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:28.479 as well. Yeah, it's frustrating. Um. So she eventually makes 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.680 another medallion. Um. And she in due time gets cat 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.160 fished by another and on who this time convinces her 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.400 to shove it up her ass um and like tape 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.839 it and stuff. Um. On another occasion, she gets tricked 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.440 into driving across the state for an orgy that never happens. Um. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:45.880 And these are all like some of these are the 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.600 same people over and over again. These are a lot 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:52.800 of different people. Um. Yeah. Yeah. So the worst of 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.440 her cat fishers, I think, the person who like breaks 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.279 her medallion and lights on the fire and ship goes 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.320 by the name of Blue Spike. Um. And this person 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.880 who is like carrying out what I think we can 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:08.719 say is like profoundly almost psychotically abusive capers is thirteen 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:17.080 years old. Oh fuck yeah yeah yeah that's scance. Um. 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.080 Oh god. And because Christian is like what six or something, 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.840 she's in her like mid twenties at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Well, 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.600 And I guess one of the things that this kind 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:29.280 of reveals is that the way the Internet enables abuse 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.000 means that if you're if you're the kind of person 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.400 who is incapable of disengaging in the way that Christine is. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.960 High school never ends, middle school never ends, you know whatever, 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.320 that's good Like, so no one is so you have 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.920 there's no one's that I mean, everyone's at fault, No 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:56.000 one's yea, every everyone's like everyone's bad. Also everyone has 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.720 something that means like, well, this thirteen year old can't 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.600 really know the full limp locations of what they're doing, right, 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:07.320 and Christine is awful, but also can't really fully know 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.000 the full ramifications of the decisions they're making. It's just 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.560 this horrible engine that has been built kind of by 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.080 accident that is now like churning these people towards calamity, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:24.840 which is the ghost machine. Oh my god, because the 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.040 thirteen year old could have been because like when I 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.800 when I think about my friends, who were you know, 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.680 I mean doing some version of this stuff in the 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:37.600 nineties on various directions, like just the Internet didn't exist 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.160 in the same way that thirteen year old could have 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:45.679 also been. Chris Chan Yeah, I'm like, wow, Engine of 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:50.280 South yep. Okay, yep. So they reveal the fact that 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.400 they're a thirteen year old to Chris after having cat 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.560 fished Chris for months during one of the most horrific 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.200 moments in in Christian history, which is called Chris Tery, 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:07.680 which is legitimately funny. That's legitimately funny. Yeah. Um, but 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.960 this moment is I'm just gonna play the audio of 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.320 of Blue Spike, this fucking teenager revealing this to Christian um, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.360 because in the voice of this kid is something important. 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:26.520 Do you really want to know? Yeah? My chance? Not 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:31.800 right now? Come on, please chance, Please, Julia. I've just 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.880 been to a whole lot mess for you, just like 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.760 what happened. I'll say that in private, but let me 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.240 what you say first from your heart. It's so hard 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.360 to say you love me, don't you? I do, But 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.400 there's something else I need to say. I just don't. 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.680 I just don't know how to do this. I don't 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:56.920 know how to tell you this. Travisy nuts Cluth, He's 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:08.439 not that there's like a breakdown, Yeah, Chris, Yeah, I 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.080 came back. Now when do what happened there? But this 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.440 is the fans for like five minutes and then I'll 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:22.120 tell you please, A'm ready to tell you, okay, this 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.880 whole time, Chris You've been having sex for a thirteen 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:35.520 year old boy? You sick? Fuck? What? Yeah? Yeah? So 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:42.080 that's that's enough. In that God, that kid's voice and 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.320 like the glee in it, that's that's the voice of 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:50.600 the soul of the internet. Like that is that is 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:56.520 the disembodied soul of digital culture speaking in that momentum. 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.640 That's rough. I used to do the opposite of this 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.680 when I was a teenager, Like my friends hung out 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:08.679 at IRC and we would catfish we have catfish petals 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.439 and then like get them be like, oh yeah, we're 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.520 gonna like phone sex you and get them to call 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.920 us and trace their number and reveal them to their workplaces. Yeah, 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:25.040 And obviously I feel okay about that. That's fine. Yeah, 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:29.160 but this is very different because like Christine doesn't think 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.760 she's hanging out obviously does not is not aware that 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.560 this is a thirteen year old like and it's that 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.200 that kind of and this is occurring the reason there's 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.360 other voices. This is doing like a fan called kind 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.880 of like a prototype of like what twitch streamers and 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.559 stuff do. Now almost we're like you have a famous 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.480 person and like people are coming in and like chatting 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.680 with them and stuff. Like, so this is this is 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.640 a thing that is occurring where he's talking to this 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.600 person he thinks is like his online girlfriend in front 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.839 of a bunch of fans that she thinks are like 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:02.280 real fans of hers aren't. But no, does she have 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.960 any real fa she does? It gets It's weird. There's 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:13.760 definitely people who like, there's after her that that that 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.320 that is that would be a funny thing to start. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.199 That's a good light to teach kids. Um, you're here, 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.200 it here first, its name. That's pretty bleak, right And 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.160 if that had been the absolute height of how fucked 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.480 up things had gotten, this would be a really sad story. Um. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:35.880 But this happened two thousand nine. Um, and every harassment 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.559 of Christine goes on right up to this day. Um. 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.839 In her father died, leaving her and her mother in 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:46.480 an increasing increasingly desperate financial states. Into this fourteen they're 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.920 fucking house burnt down along with most of their possessions. Um. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.040 This is probably due to the fact that Christine's mom 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:53.679 is a hoarder. You know, there was a lot of 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.280 bad decisions made about how to keep the house are 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:02.280 e fire safety. Um, these are not her mom, especially 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.559 after their Dad's not a very functional person, you know, um, 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.760 and Christine is not a very functional person, and so 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.240 like things just get out of hand in they're like, 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.559 this is one of those things. I'm not a cps 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.760 is probably does more harm than good in my opinion, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.040 but like somebody it should have been in any any 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.800 decent society, some responsible person should have stepped in and 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:27.800 been like, this can't continue without outside intervention. Someone needs 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.079 to take care of you both, right, you're not capable 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.080 of doing that, right, Like not I'm not talking about institutionalization, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.560 but like just a nice person who could like sit 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.199 down with him and be like, hey, you can't keep 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.400 all these newspapers stacked up next to this old coffee 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.679 machine that that sparks all the time or whatever. I 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.760 don't know what costs the fire, but like that's one 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.720 of the things that like the people who make fun 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.760 of Christine kind of don't always some of them do, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.000 but don't always take into account that, like this is 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.720 a person who's in like a danger is an unhealthy 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.920 living environment for reasons outside of like the weird ship 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.679 they're doing on the internet. Right, it's pretty pretty she's 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.400 still at home. She hasn't moved out. She's not really 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.920 capable of living indentantly. Um, I think she would have 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.880 been at some point. I don't think she was inherently 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.080 like incapable, but like the person that she becomes in 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.920 part due to this, because like this fandom and stuff like, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.800 it's this constant positive reinforcement along with negative reinforcement. So 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:30.800 she's both getting made fun of, but she's also people 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.320 are giving her money, people are like praising her work. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.800 This like community springs up around her, and she believes 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.120 that she's like becoming a famous content creator, which means 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.320 there's not it to the extent that she ever had 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:46.240 any kind of positive pressure to change in a in 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.440 a direction that would lead to her being able to 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.560 like take care of herself more effectively. That goes away 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.920 because of all this, like it's both positive and negative attention. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:01.400 That's all bad for her. Yeah, yeah, got that thirteen 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.400 year olds a grown ass person. That thirteen year old 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.920 was a grown ass person. Right now, Uh, maybe listening 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.320 to this show, Maybe listening to this show maybe feels 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.240 horrible about it. I really don't know much about what 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.600 happens to Blue Spike afterwards. I would hope they've become 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.200 a better person. Most people I wouldn't put money on it. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:25.680 I would because they were Internet right. Yeah. I I 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.800 caught window someone from my high school who did something 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.080 real bad to me, like like ten or fifteen years later, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.640 bragging about it on Facebook, like, remember that was really 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:40.480 funny when we did this one horrible, life altering scarring thing. Yeah. Yeah, 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.400 I get that kind of feeling like that, that there's 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:49.600 so much cruelty in that voice. Yeah, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe, 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.480 and maybe if you're listening, you should reach out and 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.760 pretend like you're better and then be really horrible to Wait, No, 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.160 don't do that. You should do that if you're willing 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.960 to meet us in a secluded would without leaving any 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:09.280 information about where you're headed. Um uh so yeah, um. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.640 All this financial desperation like one of the ways in 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.040 which Christine solves it as she starts taking commissions from fans, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:16.960 And a lot of these are like ironic people making 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:18.680 fun of her or trying to get her to illustrate 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.880 like horrific things, scenes of like violence, and I think 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:23.840 there's some sexual abuse and stuff in there. You know, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.880 it's four chance stuff, right, can your mind can put 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.280 the rest together. Um, but a decent amount of it 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.280 is genuine and and this is the thing that's I 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.600 think it is also toxic for the reasons I've outlined, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.000 But a lot of people I think increasingly appreciate her 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.680 and kind of the same way people do Edwood, if 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.360 that makes sense, where it's like, this is a good artwork. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.880 These aren't good comics, but there's so much heart in 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.160 them in such a specific and unique way that people 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.400 gain a sort of enjoyment from it that's not entirely 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.840 based in it's not really based in mockery, even though 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.600 it's like laughing. They're not consuming her the way she 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.280 intended for it to be. But there are people who 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.439 do just like are fascinated in a way that's not 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:12.480 just about being mean. Um, you know how art works? No, 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.680 I mean yeah, like well, I ironic engagement often leads 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.479 to earnest engagement, because sometimes irony is just a defense 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.840 mechanism of like something that you actually enjoy, you know. Yeah, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.240 So the same way that like ironic Nazis you're like, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.960 now you're just a Nazi, You're you actually just enjoy 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.680 it and you cloak it in a shield of irony, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.199 you know, yeah, yeah, you can do that in reverse too. 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.720 I guess, so that's happening too. And again I think 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.720 it's part of like I'm sure Christine loves that dimension 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.359 of it. I also, again, I think it's kind of 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.040 like helping to keep her from ever growing as a 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.720 person in ways that could I'm talking about growing out 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.399 of like liking weird sonic art or making comics, but 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.679 like growing out of being unable to take care of 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:58.199 herself in basic human ways. Um, yeah, not knowing how 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.280 to react and yeah, not some of these would conflict 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.760 not only had like yeah, like I I don't think 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.600 she was inherently incapable of growing in those ways, but 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.280 I think becoming the center of this circus kind of 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.440 locked her into continuing to play these roles in the 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.679 way that like when you get rich and famous at 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.080 age eighteen for something, a lot of times you never 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.560 grow up. We've seen this a bunch. There's that there's 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.680 that great line and um Bow Jack Horsemen where they 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.320 make the I figet which characters but says that like 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.400 whatever age you get rich at, you never like that's 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.760 the age you stop developing as a human being. And 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:37.680 I think you can make a similar case to whatever 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.879 age you get like super internet famous at you just 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.760 get like locked into that forever. Um, oh my god. 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.520 That's yep. Especially works really well since like the whole 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:53.520 Vampires class analysis ms kind of ghosts in the machine. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.320 Yeah yeah, yeah. So by the mid ots, most of 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.040 the early places like something Awful where people had gathered 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.280 to gawk at Christian life and her artwork had moved on, right, 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.280 like something Awful, It is not really the center of 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.040 of what actually grows into the problematic part of this 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.120 is just kind of like where people start gawking. Um, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:12.960 A lot of people like I was someone who paid 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.399 a tip, Like I've been following Christian stories since like 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.280 two thousand and six or seven, you know. Um, so 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.480 when I was like literally a child myself, I first 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.359 became aware of this person. Um, and most of the 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.600 folks who were kind of like in the were just 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.679 kind of like fascinated with her eventually stopped tuning in, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.639 especially once the abuse started. When four chan gets involved, 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:36.920 a lot of people who had initially been interested to like, well, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.320 this is really fucked up. Now you're not just gawking 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:44.639 at like some weird outsider art. You're like abusing a person. Um, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.479 and there's this kind of growing awareness that something deeply 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.480 fucked up is happening. In two fourteen, in a new 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.920 forum called Kiwi Farms is created for the most dedicated 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.080 trolls and observers of Christian. This is where Kiwi karms 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.480 Farms comes from, is specifically to follow and mock Christian, 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.280 so they escalate things even beyond what four chan had done. 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.360 Some forum members took photos of the Chandler's homes from 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.919 the street. At one point, Christian and her mother assaulted 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.000 the owner of a gaming store with a car because 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.520 Christian had been banned from the gaming store and so like, 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.520 she and her mom attacked this person, which is again 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:24.960 not great people. Like not great people. Um. When both 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.359 had their court date, people from Kiwi Farms are there 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.960 to document it for the lowells. Like there's like people 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:36.240 actually show up inmport to watch this. Yeah. We should 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:41.760 trick them into becoming war correspondence. Yeah, get them to 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.240 like troll some specific Russian conscript by joining a territorial 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.399 defense battalion. Yeah, or just troll the concept of like 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:55.480 an s U twenty nine by getting bombed or something. 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.600 I don't know. Um, so I'm gonna read a quote 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.280 from a write up in New York Magazine. Here. Over 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.680 the eight years, they've contacted Chandler, her pastor, and her parents, 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:08.080 posing as journalists, former classmates, psychiatrists, potential business partners, and others, 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.560 and the hopes that these ruses yield more confidential info. Twice, 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.120 female Kiwi farmers arranged real life dates with Chandler. Both 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.800 of them used fake names and wore wires to record 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.120 these outings. Packages and letters are routinely sent to Chandler's residents, 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.600 many of which contain obscene materials designed to unsettle the recipients. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.000 In one instance, someone sent prostitutes to visit Chandler's house, 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.080 then called the family to taunt them about it. Oh 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:37.960 my god, so we're we're well passed, just like, oh 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:42.240 look at this weird stuff. You know. Yeah, if every 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:45.720 day you've ever been on was a joke at your expense. Yeah, 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.359 And this is happening right around the same time gamer 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.800 Gate is and everyone else, and this is the kind 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.359 of thing like when gamer get hit everyone around me. 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.040 I remember being so surprised at what was happening, And 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.399 even before Kiwi Farms, I had been seeing versions of 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:03.280 that stuff happened to fucking Christian. I think there were 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.760 few people like that who were like, oh, ship, this 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.399 has gone everywhere now, like this is broken containment. You know, 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.359 this is not just like how the Internet deals with 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:14.960 their special person that they're all obsessed with. This is 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.200 like now with a set of tactics that are used 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.199 on a wide variety of people, but of course like 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.080 the most even then, like, considering how fucked up gamer 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:28.920 Gate is, I think Christian deals with more fucked up 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.520 and targeted harassment than any of the gamer Gate victims. 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.679 Not to minimize it, but like, right, this is some 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.120 This is so comprehensive. And and again at the point 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.159 at which gamer Gate starts, this has been going on 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.920 almost a decade, right well, and it's like most of 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.320 the gamer Gate people have probably had get to have 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.359 real friends in their life instead of just ironic friends 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.359 who are trolling them. Yeah. I hope at least for 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.400 the gamer Gate people, you know, for the gamer Gate victims. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.600 Not I don't care what happens to them because of 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:01.280 those people, but this is like, this is her entire 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.879 adult life is dealing with this pretty much. Yeah, I 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.520 can't even know well of co what. Yeah, it's impossible 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.240 to comprehend what that would do to you. Yeah, I 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.119 mean I I've talked to and I've had the experience 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.240 of like, you know, the kind of high school experience 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:18.960 of being like, oh, I've been invited to a party. 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.640 I bet it's just to make fun of me, right, Yes, 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.639 you know and like and and and that plays a number. 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:28.440 You know that that messes with your sense of self 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:34.320 twenty years later, right, But that was like once, you know, 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.679