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Speaker 1: H h, well I did it. That was yeah, please absolutely,

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Speaker 1: Chris make it horny, like like really horny. Well, this

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Speaker 1: is Behind the Bastards podcast that is introduced the way

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Speaker 1: I just introduced it. What are you going to do

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Speaker 1: about it? Find another show. I'm gonna listen to someone else. No,

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Speaker 1: you're not. You're stuck here. You're stuck here with me,

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Speaker 1: with me and with Margaret Kiljoy. Margaret, welcome to the show. Hello.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing, Margaret? I'm doing great. Nothing bad

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Speaker 1: or sad as happened, and I'm sure that we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about sunny sunshine roses. Yeah. I like thinking

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Speaker 1: about good things. You know, did a lot that makes

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Speaker 1: me angry in the world, Like, for example, Hollywood didn't

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Speaker 1: really do anything good with didn't do enough good with

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Speaker 1: Bruce Campbell when he was like young and super hot.

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Speaker 1: What's what's up with that? How could you not? I

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Speaker 1: just someone wants to talk about this on Twitter and

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Speaker 1: they're right, like, how was he not in more stuff

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Speaker 1: when he was like, you know, army of darkness young? Like,

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Speaker 1: how do you not make maximum use of that guy?

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievably infuriating. Yeah, his jaw is just left incredible

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Speaker 1: on Yeah, you could bludgeon people to death with that

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Speaker 1: jaw and they'd be happy about it. And you can

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Speaker 1: almost kill him in every movie. Sam Raimi nearly murdered

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Speaker 1: that man like thirty times, and Bruce just kept coming

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Speaker 1: back for more, Like what a hero? Anyway a hero?

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Speaker 1: I feel like we really lost out on some great

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Speaker 1: Bruce Campbell movies, like why not just kidd no no,

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Speaker 1: But just like when he was like super young, right,

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Speaker 1: he's been great. He's he's aged into a wonderful career.

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Speaker 1: Is like the old guy kind of aging action hero

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Speaker 1: type character. He does that in a lot of that

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Speaker 1: and burn notice and in the in the Ash Versus

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Speaker 1: the Evil Dead show, Like he's had a wonderful career.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he's very happy. But like young Bruce Campbell,

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Speaker 1: think about like why not why not try him as

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Speaker 1: a superman, Like just throw it in there, just see

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Speaker 1: what we get, you know, just cast Bruce Campbell is

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Speaker 1: Superman and let it happen um and have Sam Raimie directed,

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Speaker 1: Like my god, can you imagine that movie? That would

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Speaker 1: have been nuts. I'm trying to delay us getting back

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Speaker 1: to a very uncomfortable series of conversations. Yeah, because it's

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Speaker 1: about to get a lot worse. Um. Thanks, thanks everyone

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Speaker 1: for tuning into this episode where there's absolutely like no no,

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Speaker 1: no joy, Like we can't, we don't even get like

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Speaker 1: the moment of laughing at at Hitler being given fucking

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Speaker 1: cocaine by his doctor who's angry at the other doctor

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Speaker 1: for giving him herold, like, those are the good moments,

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Speaker 1: Those are the ones that made this show with it.

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Speaker 1: None of those in this story. So yeah, when we

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Speaker 1: last left off Christine, she had provided four chan with

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Speaker 1: evidence of that she was not you know that she

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Speaker 1: was straight by giving hand drawn pornography of one of

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Speaker 1: her few real life friends, which is bad bad call, um,

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Speaker 1: generally bad call. Not generally a bad call, always a

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Speaker 1: bad call. Don't what if it had worked, though? What

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Speaker 1: if the friend had been like, it's true, I've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about you this whole time. That's not a zero

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Speaker 1: percent chance, but it's not a betting chance. Like someone

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Speaker 1: out there there kink would be realizing that their friend

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Speaker 1: had had, without asking for their consent, written pornography about

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Speaker 1: them and handed it to fortune. That person exists, right,

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Speaker 1: but yeah enough, yeah, um, but that person is also

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Speaker 1: on four chan. Right, so there is a there is

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Speaker 1: a um. Yeah. Anyway, so this goes bad and it

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Speaker 1: also kind of super charges this growing fandom. It is

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Speaker 1: kind of a fandom. I think you have to look

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Speaker 1: at it that way. Um. Around Christian like people realize

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Speaker 1: not only does this person respond when you poke them,

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Speaker 1: which is like the number one thing that lets a

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Speaker 1: bully no, it's time to keep on bullying, um, but

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Speaker 1: that you can get incredible content out of like lying

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Speaker 1: about them on the internet and waiting for them to

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Speaker 1: correct you in ways that make their entire life worse. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you know she has she has basically proven herself

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Speaker 1: to be like a comedy pinada for these people, right,

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Speaker 1: That's that is how they're looking at it. Um. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: um it's not great. This all sets off a three

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Speaker 1: year period of near constant baiting by trolls, most of

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Speaker 1: whom would pretend to be women um interested in dating Christine. Um,

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Speaker 1: so they would they would reach out to her and

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Speaker 1: like they would cat fish her with like photos and

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Speaker 1: messages with the goal of getting her to like reveal

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Speaker 1: shameful things to them. And again, this is a thing

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Speaker 1: that happens a lot to all sorts of people. Now,

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Speaker 1: this didn't really happen much like two eight, two nine.

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Speaker 1: This is not as nearly as common as it would be. Um,

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Speaker 1: and especially it was not a thing that people did

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Speaker 1: to create content for huge anonymous masses of Internet users.

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Speaker 1: Like this is really where that begins. Yeah, one of

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Speaker 1: the first of these trolls convinced convinced Christine to mail

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Speaker 1: them her beloved sonnet U medallion, this thing that she's

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Speaker 1: like made, that she wears everywhere. That's like her most

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Speaker 1: valued possession in the world. So this person pretends to

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Speaker 1: be a girl who's interested in her and like asks

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Speaker 1: for the medallion is like a token of love. And

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Speaker 1: then when they get it, they post a video of

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Speaker 1: themselves smashing it and lighting it on fire. Um cool, Yeah, good,

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Speaker 1: we we really made a good thing with the Internet.

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Speaker 1: You think back to like people saying like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is when people are connected. It's going to make some

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Speaker 1: of the evils of the twentieth centre impossible to repeat. No,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just gonna mean that like when the evils

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Speaker 1: of the twentieth century are repeated, we like throw a

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Speaker 1: fucking uh whatever um trance wave or whatever filter on

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Speaker 1: it and stick like a meme joke on it. We

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Speaker 1: sell t shirts of it and ship like I might

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, it's frustrating. Um. So she eventually makes

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Speaker 1: another medallion. Um. And she in due time gets cat

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Speaker 1: fished by another and on who this time convinces her

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Speaker 1: to shove it up her ass um and like tape

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Speaker 1: it and stuff. Um. On another occasion, she gets tricked

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Speaker 1: into driving across the state for an orgy that never happens. Um.

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Speaker 1: And these are all like some of these are the

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Speaker 1: same people over and over again. These are a lot

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Speaker 1: of different people. Um. Yeah. Yeah. So the worst of

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Speaker 1: her cat fishers, I think, the person who like breaks

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Speaker 1: her medallion and lights on the fire and ship goes

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Speaker 1: by the name of Blue Spike. Um. And this person

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Speaker 1: who is like carrying out what I think we can

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Speaker 1: say is like profoundly almost psychotically abusive capers is thirteen

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Speaker 1: years old. Oh fuck yeah yeah yeah that's scance. Um.

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Speaker 1: Oh god. And because Christian is like what six or something,

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Speaker 1: she's in her like mid twenties at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: And I guess one of the things that this kind

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Speaker 1: of reveals is that the way the Internet enables abuse

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Speaker 1: means that if you're if you're the kind of person

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Speaker 1: who is incapable of disengaging in the way that Christine is.

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Speaker 1: High school never ends, middle school never ends, you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: that's good Like, so no one is so you have

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Speaker 1: there's no one's that I mean, everyone's at fault, No

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Speaker 1: one's yea, every everyone's like everyone's bad. Also everyone has

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Speaker 1: something that means like, well, this thirteen year old can't

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Speaker 1: really know the full limp locations of what they're doing, right,

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Speaker 1: and Christine is awful, but also can't really fully know

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Speaker 1: the full ramifications of the decisions they're making. It's just

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Speaker 1: this horrible engine that has been built kind of by

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Speaker 1: accident that is now like churning these people towards calamity,

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Speaker 1: which is the ghost machine. Oh my god, because the

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old could have been because like when I

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Speaker 1: when I think about my friends, who were you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean doing some version of this stuff in the

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Speaker 1: nineties on various directions, like just the Internet didn't exist

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Speaker 1: in the same way that thirteen year old could have

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Speaker 1: also been. Chris Chan Yeah, I'm like, wow, Engine of

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Speaker 1: South yep. Okay, yep. So they reveal the fact that

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Speaker 1: they're a thirteen year old to Chris after having cat

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Speaker 1: fished Chris for months during one of the most horrific

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Speaker 1: moments in in Christian history, which is called Chris Tery,

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Speaker 1: which is legitimately funny. That's legitimately funny. Yeah. Um, but

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Speaker 1: this moment is I'm just gonna play the audio of

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Speaker 1: of Blue Spike, this fucking teenager revealing this to Christian um,

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Speaker 1: because in the voice of this kid is something important.

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Speaker 1: Do you really want to know? Yeah? My chance? Not

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Speaker 1: right now? Come on, please chance, Please, Julia. I've just

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Speaker 1: been to a whole lot mess for you, just like

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Speaker 1: what happened. I'll say that in private, but let me

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Speaker 1: what you say first from your heart. It's so hard

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Speaker 1: to say you love me, don't you? I do, But

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Speaker 1: there's something else I need to say. I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I just don't know how to do this. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to tell you this. Travisy nuts Cluth, He's

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Speaker 1: not that there's like a breakdown, Yeah, Chris, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: came back. Now when do what happened there? But this

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Speaker 1: is the fans for like five minutes and then I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you please, A'm ready to tell you, okay, this

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Speaker 1: whole time, Chris You've been having sex for a thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old boy? You sick? Fuck? What? Yeah? Yeah? So

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Speaker 1: that's that's enough. In that God, that kid's voice and

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Speaker 1: like the glee in it, that's that's the voice of

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Speaker 1: the soul of the internet. Like that is that is

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Speaker 1: the disembodied soul of digital culture speaking in that momentum.

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Speaker 1: That's rough. I used to do the opposite of this

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Speaker 1: when I was a teenager, Like my friends hung out

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Speaker 1: at IRC and we would catfish we have catfish petals

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Speaker 1: and then like get them be like, oh yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna like phone sex you and get them to call

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Speaker 1: us and trace their number and reveal them to their workplaces. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And obviously I feel okay about that. That's fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this is very different because like Christine doesn't think

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Speaker 1: she's hanging out obviously does not is not aware that

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Speaker 1: this is a thirteen year old like and it's that

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Speaker 1: that kind of and this is occurring the reason there's

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Speaker 1: other voices. This is doing like a fan called kind

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Speaker 1: of like a prototype of like what twitch streamers and

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Speaker 1: stuff do. Now almost we're like you have a famous

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Speaker 1: person and like people are coming in and like chatting

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Speaker 1: with them and stuff. Like, so this is this is

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Speaker 1: a thing that is occurring where he's talking to this

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Speaker 1: person he thinks is like his online girlfriend in front

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Speaker 1: of a bunch of fans that she thinks are like

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Speaker 1: real fans of hers aren't. But no, does she have

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Speaker 1: any real fa she does? It gets It's weird. There's

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Speaker 1: definitely people who like, there's after her that that that

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Speaker 1: that is that would be a funny thing to start.

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Speaker 1: That's a good light to teach kids. Um, you're here,

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Speaker 1: it here first, its name. That's pretty bleak, right And

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Speaker 1: if that had been the absolute height of how fucked

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Speaker 1: up things had gotten, this would be a really sad story. Um.

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Speaker 1: But this happened two thousand nine. Um, and every harassment

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Speaker 1: of Christine goes on right up to this day. Um.

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Speaker 1: In her father died, leaving her and her mother in

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Speaker 1: an increasing increasingly desperate financial states. Into this fourteen they're

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Speaker 1: fucking house burnt down along with most of their possessions. Um.

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Speaker 1: This is probably due to the fact that Christine's mom

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Speaker 1: is a hoarder. You know, there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: bad decisions made about how to keep the house are

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Speaker 1: e fire safety. Um, these are not her mom, especially

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Speaker 1: after their Dad's not a very functional person, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: and Christine is not a very functional person, and so

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Speaker 1: like things just get out of hand in they're like,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those things. I'm not a cps

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Speaker 1: is probably does more harm than good in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: but like somebody it should have been in any any

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Speaker 1: decent society, some responsible person should have stepped in and

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Speaker 1: been like, this can't continue without outside intervention. Someone needs

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Speaker 1: to take care of you both, right, you're not capable

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Speaker 1: of doing that, right, Like not I'm not talking about institutionalization,

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Speaker 1: but like just a nice person who could like sit

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Speaker 1: down with him and be like, hey, you can't keep

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Speaker 1: all these newspapers stacked up next to this old coffee

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Speaker 1: machine that that sparks all the time or whatever. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what costs the fire, but like that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that like the people who make fun

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Speaker 1: of Christine kind of don't always some of them do,

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Speaker 1: but don't always take into account that, like this is

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Speaker 1: a person who's in like a danger is an unhealthy

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Speaker 1: living environment for reasons outside of like the weird ship

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Speaker 1: they're doing on the internet. Right, it's pretty pretty she's

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Speaker 1: still at home. She hasn't moved out. She's not really

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Speaker 1: capable of living indentantly. Um, I think she would have

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Speaker 1: been at some point. I don't think she was inherently

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Speaker 1: like incapable, but like the person that she becomes in

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Speaker 1: part due to this, because like this fandom and stuff like,

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Speaker 1: it's this constant positive reinforcement along with negative reinforcement. So

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Speaker 1: she's both getting made fun of, but she's also people

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Speaker 1: are giving her money, people are like praising her work.

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Speaker 1: This like community springs up around her, and she believes

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Speaker 1: that she's like becoming a famous content creator, which means

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Speaker 1: there's not it to the extent that she ever had

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Speaker 1: any kind of positive pressure to change in a in

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Speaker 1: a direction that would lead to her being able to

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Speaker 1: like take care of herself more effectively. That goes away

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Speaker 1: because of all this, like it's both positive and negative attention.

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Speaker 1: That's all bad for her. Yeah, yeah, got that thirteen

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Speaker 1: year olds a grown ass person. That thirteen year old

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00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: was a grown ass person. Right now, Uh, maybe listening

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Speaker 1: to this show, Maybe listening to this show maybe feels

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Speaker 1: horrible about it. I really don't know much about what

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Speaker 1: happens to Blue Spike afterwards. I would hope they've become

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Speaker 1: a better person. Most people I wouldn't put money on it.

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Speaker 1: I would because they were Internet right. Yeah. I I

252
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 1: caught window someone from my high school who did something

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Speaker 1: real bad to me, like like ten or fifteen years later,

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Speaker 1: bragging about it on Facebook, like, remember that was really

255
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Speaker 1: funny when we did this one horrible, life altering scarring thing. Yeah. Yeah,

256
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Speaker 1: I get that kind of feeling like that, that there's

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00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 1: so much cruelty in that voice. Yeah, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe,

258
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: and maybe if you're listening, you should reach out and

259
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: pretend like you're better and then be really horrible to Wait, No,

260
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 1: don't do that. You should do that if you're willing

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Speaker 1: to meet us in a secluded would without leaving any

262
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:09,280
Speaker 1: information about where you're headed. Um uh so yeah, um.

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Speaker 1: All this financial desperation like one of the ways in

264
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,040
Speaker 1: which Christine solves it as she starts taking commissions from fans,

265
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 1: And a lot of these are like ironic people making

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Speaker 1: fun of her or trying to get her to illustrate

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00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 1: like horrific things, scenes of like violence, and I think

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00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: there's some sexual abuse and stuff in there. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's four chance stuff, right, can your mind can put

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00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: the rest together. Um, but a decent amount of it

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Speaker 1: is genuine and and this is the thing that's I

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Speaker 1: think it is also toxic for the reasons I've outlined,

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people I think increasingly appreciate her

274
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Speaker 1: and kind of the same way people do Edwood, if

275
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 1: that makes sense, where it's like, this is a good artwork.

276
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 1: These aren't good comics, but there's so much heart in

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00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 1: them in such a specific and unique way that people

278
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 1: gain a sort of enjoyment from it that's not entirely

279
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: based in it's not really based in mockery, even though

280
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 1: it's like laughing. They're not consuming her the way she

281
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: intended for it to be. But there are people who

282
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,439
Speaker 1: do just like are fascinated in a way that's not

283
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 1: just about being mean. Um, you know how art works? No,

284
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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, like well, I ironic engagement often leads

285
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,479
Speaker 1: to earnest engagement, because sometimes irony is just a defense

286
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 1: mechanism of like something that you actually enjoy, you know. Yeah,

287
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 1: So the same way that like ironic Nazis you're like,

288
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 1: now you're just a Nazi, You're you actually just enjoy

289
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 1: it and you cloak it in a shield of irony,

290
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,199
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, you can do that in reverse too.

291
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 1: I guess, so that's happening too. And again I think

292
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 1: it's part of like I'm sure Christine loves that dimension

293
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 1: of it. I also, again, I think it's kind of

294
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 1: like helping to keep her from ever growing as a

295
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 1: person in ways that could I'm talking about growing out

296
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,399
Speaker 1: of like liking weird sonic art or making comics, but

297
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,679
Speaker 1: like growing out of being unable to take care of

298
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,199
Speaker 1: herself in basic human ways. Um, yeah, not knowing how

299
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 1: to react and yeah, not some of these would conflict

300
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 1: not only had like yeah, like I I don't think

301
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: she was inherently incapable of growing in those ways, but

302
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 1: I think becoming the center of this circus kind of

303
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 1: locked her into continuing to play these roles in the

304
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 1: way that like when you get rich and famous at

305
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 1: age eighteen for something, a lot of times you never

306
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: grow up. We've seen this a bunch. There's that there's

307
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: that great line and um Bow Jack Horsemen where they

308
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 1: make the I figet which characters but says that like

309
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 1: whatever age you get rich at, you never like that's

310
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 1: the age you stop developing as a human being. And

311
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 1: I think you can make a similar case to whatever

312
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,879
Speaker 1: age you get like super internet famous at you just

313
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 1: get like locked into that forever. Um, oh my god.

314
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 1: That's yep. Especially works really well since like the whole

315
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 1: Vampires class analysis ms kind of ghosts in the machine.

316
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. So by the mid ots, most of

317
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: the early places like something Awful where people had gathered

318
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: to gawk at Christian life and her artwork had moved on, right,

319
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 1: like something Awful, It is not really the center of

320
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: of what actually grows into the problematic part of this

321
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 1: is just kind of like where people start gawking. Um,

322
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 1: A lot of people like I was someone who paid

323
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 1: a tip, Like I've been following Christian stories since like

324
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and six or seven, you know. Um, so

325
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 1: when I was like literally a child myself, I first

326
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 1: became aware of this person. Um, and most of the

327
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 1: folks who were kind of like in the were just

328
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: kind of like fascinated with her eventually stopped tuning in,

329
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 1: especially once the abuse started. When four chan gets involved,

330
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people who had initially been interested to like, well,

331
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 1: this is really fucked up. Now you're not just gawking

332
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 1: at like some weird outsider art. You're like abusing a person. Um,

333
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,479
Speaker 1: and there's this kind of growing awareness that something deeply

334
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 1: fucked up is happening. In two fourteen, in a new

335
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 1: forum called Kiwi Farms is created for the most dedicated

336
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: trolls and observers of Christian. This is where Kiwi karms

337
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 1: Farms comes from, is specifically to follow and mock Christian,

338
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: so they escalate things even beyond what four chan had done.

339
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,360
Speaker 1: Some forum members took photos of the Chandler's homes from

340
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 1: the street. At one point, Christian and her mother assaulted

341
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: the owner of a gaming store with a car because

342
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 1: Christian had been banned from the gaming store and so like,

343
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: she and her mom attacked this person, which is again

344
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: not great people. Like not great people. Um. When both

345
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 1: had their court date, people from Kiwi Farms are there

346
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 1: to document it for the lowells. Like there's like people

347
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: actually show up inmport to watch this. Yeah. We should

348
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 1: trick them into becoming war correspondence. Yeah, get them to

349
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 1: like troll some specific Russian conscript by joining a territorial

350
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 1: defense battalion. Yeah, or just troll the concept of like

351
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: an s U twenty nine by getting bombed or something.

352
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, so I'm gonna read a quote

353
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: from a write up in New York Magazine. Here. Over

354
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: the eight years, they've contacted Chandler, her pastor, and her parents,

355
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: posing as journalists, former classmates, psychiatrists, potential business partners, and others,

356
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: and the hopes that these ruses yield more confidential info. Twice,

357
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 1: female Kiwi farmers arranged real life dates with Chandler. Both

358
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: of them used fake names and wore wires to record

359
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 1: these outings. Packages and letters are routinely sent to Chandler's residents,

360
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: many of which contain obscene materials designed to unsettle the recipients.

361
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: In one instance, someone sent prostitutes to visit Chandler's house,

362
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: then called the family to taunt them about it. Oh

363
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: my god, so we're we're well passed, just like, oh

364
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: look at this weird stuff. You know. Yeah, if every

365
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: day you've ever been on was a joke at your expense. Yeah,

366
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 1: And this is happening right around the same time gamer

367
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: Gate is and everyone else, and this is the kind

368
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: of thing like when gamer get hit everyone around me.

369
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: I remember being so surprised at what was happening, And

370
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: even before Kiwi Farms, I had been seeing versions of

371
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: that stuff happened to fucking Christian. I think there were

372
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: few people like that who were like, oh, ship, this

373
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: has gone everywhere now, like this is broken containment. You know,

374
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: this is not just like how the Internet deals with

375
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: their special person that they're all obsessed with. This is

376
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: like now with a set of tactics that are used

377
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 1: on a wide variety of people, but of course like

378
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: the most even then, like, considering how fucked up gamer

379
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: Gate is, I think Christian deals with more fucked up

380
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: and targeted harassment than any of the gamer Gate victims.

381
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 1: Not to minimize it, but like, right, this is some

382
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 1: This is so comprehensive. And and again at the point

383
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: at which gamer Gate starts, this has been going on

384
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 1: almost a decade, right well, and it's like most of

385
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: the gamer Gate people have probably had get to have

386
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: real friends in their life instead of just ironic friends

387
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: who are trolling them. Yeah. I hope at least for

388
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: the gamer Gate people, you know, for the gamer Gate victims.

389
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: Not I don't care what happens to them because of

390
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: those people, but this is like, this is her entire

391
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: adult life is dealing with this pretty much. Yeah, I

392
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: can't even know well of co what. Yeah, it's impossible

393
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: to comprehend what that would do to you. Yeah, I

394
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: mean I I've talked to and I've had the experience

395
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: of like, you know, the kind of high school experience

396
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: of being like, oh, I've been invited to a party.

397
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: I bet it's just to make fun of me, right, Yes,

398
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: you know and like and and and that plays a number.

399
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: You know that that messes with your sense of self

400
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: twenty years later, right, But that was like once, you know,

401
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: or like or over the period of a year or

402
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: two or something, you know, just the idea that someone's

403
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: entire life from middle school on. It's a hell. It's

404
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: like literally a Dante's Inferno. I've never read Dante's Inferno,

405
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: but let's pretend like I have. Yeah, it's mostly about

406
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: a dude wanting to suck a chick um, but then

407
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: she dies, and so he makes fun of the governor

408
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: of Venice a lot something like that. If I'm remembering

409
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: my Dante rights, it's really horny and it's petty grievances.

410
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: It's actually not from Christian has put it together like that.

411
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: How many of the greatest pieces of art and history

412
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: where someone who just like I live in a private

413
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 1: world and I'm write about it. Yeah, I'm angry this

414
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: relationship didn't work out, and I have specific petty grievances

415
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: about local elected officials. Now I'm going to create one

416
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: of the most infamous works of art in the history

417
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: of human learning. It's pretty it's pretty funny, it's pretty dope. Yeah, alright,

418
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: you know what else he's doe products and services that

419
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: people can spend money at. Oh my god, there's nothing

420
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: as good as a product and a service. Yeah, that

421
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: wasn't my best transition. I'll figure it out for the

422
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: next one. All in sight can be so good. Violence

423
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: against a him or something. I don't know, we'll figure

424
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: it out. Here's ads. We're back. You know. I'm thinking

425
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: about like getting bullied. And some of the worst ship

426
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: I ever had to deal with was like from one

427
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: of my teachers. We had this fucking in Texas, you

428
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 1: have to take Texas history class, right, which because it's

429
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: always a nation, so that horseshit, like always horseshit. In

430
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: my experience, it was nothing but nonsense. Um, and they

431
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: really gloss over the slavery stuff, by the way, especially

432
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: since my Texas history teacher was also the I think

433
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: it was the volleyball coach. It might have been tennis.

434
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: It's been a long time at this point, but he

435
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: was a coach, right, He was one of these, like

436
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: like more, most of my history teachers were mainly coaches

437
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: who then they got stuck teaching history. And I would, like,

438
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, I played D and D and ship as

439
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: a kid, and so I would like take my D

440
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: and D books with me around and like read them

441
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: in between classes and stuff when I had free time.

442
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: And this fucking day he like see it. I'm not

443
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: like reading it in class. It's just like below my

444
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: stack of books, and he like grabs it and he

445
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: walks to the front of the class and he starts

446
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: like reading from it and making me explain things and

447
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: laughing at me in front of the class. I know,

448
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: I mean, I I it's entirely possible. I said some

449
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: things that would have gotten me arrested if my friends

450
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: hadn't been such good friends, because I definitely like said

451
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: some column biny shit about that, dude, you know, yeah,

452
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: because when you're a teenager and you don't know how

453
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: to deal with conflict. Yeah, fucking a god, damn, I

454
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: fucking hate uh, Texas schools. My my gym teacher made

455
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: fun of my duck boots in front of the entire class. Jesus,

456
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: and I never wore duck boots again. I still haven't

457
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: worn duck boots again. They're really they're great boots. But

458
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure you look excellent duck boots. Yeah, I need

459
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: a good pair it with a nice heal on it. Man, anyway,

460
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: we need to like No, that's that's legally excitement. Um So, Christine,

461
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: at no point in the story has been a particularly

462
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: healthy person. Obviously, you know, even before the Internet really

463
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: got involved, she expressed homophobia and racism. But years upon

464
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: years of ceaseless, demented harassment did not help matters. Over

465
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: the years, a group of trolls started working in a

466
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: concerted fashion to convince Christian, who always had a tenuous

467
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,239
Speaker 1: grip on reality, that other dimensions existed, and that her

468
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: cartoon characters and cartoon girlfriends and cartoon child that she

469
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: had all created for this cartoon series she's been drawing

470
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: for years were real somewhere in the universe. Now there's

471
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: a whole timeline you can read online in painful detail

472
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: if you want to. Um, I want to quote now

473
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: from a section from Chris Chan's absolutely Voluminous Dedicated WICKI

474
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: hosted on Sanna Chew dot com for some reference as

475
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: to the scale of the obsession we're dealing with here.

476
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: Now the Quickie, you know, the wiki dedicated to the

477
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: c w C. That's that's her initials currently has two thousand,

478
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: one ninety seven articles. The okay, it's out of it's mind.

479
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: How have I not heard of the most famous person

480
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: in history? It's it's it's you had to Yeah, we'll

481
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: get to that quote. In September two seventeen, Joshua Wise

482
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: contacted Christine to commission artwork with the two win contact

483
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: why Is decided to see for himself Christine's gallibility. In

484
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: late October two seventeen, he again contacted Christine, posing as

485
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: John Yamata. As Yamada Why Is claimed to be a

486
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: soldier from Game Industry, a location set in the franchise

487
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: Hyperdimension Neptunia, and inquired if Christine still had her old

488
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: Sega Dreamcast console, telling her it contained a partial portal

489
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: into quick Fill, which is like the fake version of Charlotte'

490
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: Fille She's created for her comics. Why Is used the

491
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: lore from Neptunia to play into Christine's existing preconceptions about

492
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: reality and her belief that fictional worlds exist in alternate dimensions,

493
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: giving her validation over those beliefs, which would both prime

494
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: Christine for following under Wyse's spell and eventually encourage her

495
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: to retreat further into his fantasy world to cope with

496
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: her real world problems. So this snowballs into a group

497
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: of which is like, this is like mental abuse, so

498
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: of really like kind of hard to fathom scale. It's

499
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: snowballs into a group of trolls, convincing Christian that they

500
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: could destroy Quickville, her fantasy world, which is basically the

501
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: only thing good going on in her life. Um, So

502
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: they put the fantasy city that she's created up for ransom,

503
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: and they start making her do a variety of horrible

504
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: things to stop it from being destroyed. They had her

505
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 1: confess to being a pedophile and confessed to raping her

506
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: own mother. Then they threatened to release those confessions publicly

507
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: if she didn't record herself shooting on the floor and

508
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: punching herself in the face until she cried. At one point,

509
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: they asked her to punch her mother, which she did.

510
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: Oh my, so black Mirror is just a pale imitation

511
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: Black Marrying got shipped on the stuff people have been

512
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: doing to Christian for like fifteen something years. Um. So

513
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: these trolls who are known kind of in the Chris

514
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: Chan uh fandom. I don't know what you want to

515
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: call it, but these trolls are referred to as the

516
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: Idea guys, and they eventually blackmail Chris Chan out of

517
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of money, like six thousand dollars. I'm sure

518
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: she has a lot of yeah, which she Yeah, this

519
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: is like, I think money that her and her mom

520
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: need to exist. Um. This abuse is actually so horrific

521
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: that it pisces off people on Kiwi Farms who think

522
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: this is going too far and is no longer funny.

523
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: So a group of these again pretty psychopathic folks on

524
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: Kiwi Farms start dedicating themselves to dismantling these plots and

525
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: even trying to force some of the Idea guys to

526
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: face legal action. Um. The leader of this group, Null

527
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: is also the main mod on Kiwi farms. I think

528
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: he might have found it. I'm not as up on

529
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: that stuff, and he's like was big into gamer Gate.

530
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: He's extremely anti Semitic. He believes in like white genocide theories.

531
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: He uses the in word a bunch. He's like a

532
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: very gross dude. And the fact that this guy and

533
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: people like him are horrified enough by the abuse level

534
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: that has grown that they start to defend. Christine says

535
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: something significant about how bad things have gotten that like

536
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: this, this this motherfucker's like, okay, well that people are going

537
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: too far. Um, it's it's it's it's pretty bleak. Now.

538
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how much detail to get into. We

539
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: could talk for tens of hours about this story, and

540
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: some people have, which is part of what I find

541
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: so unsettling. Coverance of Chris Chan ranges from the obviously hateful.

542
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: The rite up of her life on Encyclopedia Dramatica is

543
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: basically just non slot stop slurs focused around the fact

544
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: that she's now transgender. Um. She comes out in two thousands, seventeen, UM.

545
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: So this is like, if you've been following the Christian

546
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: story most of the time this has been going on,

547
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: that has not been like a factor in it. That's

548
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: a fairly recent thing for her, um. But not all

549
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: of it is like super hateful. The Chris Chan wiki

550
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: is weirdly neutral. Um, I think they still miss gender her.

551
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: But it's otherwise written basically like a history wold document

552
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: Like it's not full of like insults and stuff. Um,

553
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: there's some editorializing and judgment, but it's pretty straightforward. And

554
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: then there are the documentaries. You can find numerous YouTube

555
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: videos about Christian's life, but by far the most detailed

556
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: is Christian A Comprehensive History, which is currently at part

557
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: fifty nine. At present, there are more than twenty hours

558
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: of content. Now I want to play you the opening

559
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: to the most recent of it's these videos, which to

560
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: its credit, does not miss gender her. These are not

561
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: like disrespectful or mean, They're just profoundly unsettling in their detail.

562
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: What made her this way? What is the attraction? What

563
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: keeps us fascinated? This is the story of Christian Ah.

564
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: On October sixteen, Christine published the final pages of Sana

565
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: Chu issue twelve, marking its completion. The comic begins with

566
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: episodes five to Be or Not a tom Girl told

567
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: from the perspective of Sanachus, then son Robert sana Cheu.

568
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: So that's like just analytical, almost like scientific in its

569
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: level of dissection. They cover every moment of her life.

570
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: And again it's almost there's a degree to which is

571
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: almost more unsettling than the hateful stuff, like that you're

572
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: not gonna find anything cool in there. They are careful

573
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: once she transitions, because this starts, you know, before that point,

574
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: but once she does, they're very careful about gendering her properly. Um,

575
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: it's not mean, it's just detailed to an extent that

576
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: I don't know anyone else's life has ever been documented. Um.

577
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: And I mean it's interesting because it's like if says

578
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 1: that in the opening, it's like, well, what makes us

579
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: so obsessed? It was like, that's the people who have

580
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: a problem here. Like I mean, Christian has a problem,

581
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: she's living in hell, but like, but these people, they

582
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: have a problem. Yeah, this is this is a problem. Right.

583
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: If a friend were to be like, so I finished

584
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: our twenty of my documentary on this person whose most

585
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: notable attribute is that they make kind of off putting comics,

586
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: I would be like, so, we gotta get you help, right, Like,

587
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: we gotta get you out of this, Like whatever you're doing,

588
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: you're not in a good place, Like do you need

589
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: to talk? Um, it's pretty pretty good stuff. Um, but

590
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: it is. It is kind of worth noting that the

591
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: obsession is not like entirely hateful. Um yeah, it's weird. Well,

592
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: and it also that piece also shows that she's come

593
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: around on LGBT issues. Yes, she's she's not come around.

594
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: I think maybe some I I can't there's a lot

595
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: of Chris Terry to get into. I could not tell

596
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: you the extent to which she has come around on race.

597
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: I certainly hope so, but I'm not aware of that happening. Um. Yeah. Uh.

598
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: And there's like weird little fractures within these communities, like

599
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: an encyclopedia dramatic at the people who document her like

600
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: mock and deride the people who are like sending her

601
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: money and making documentaries about her and like defending her

602
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: and stuff. Um. So there's even like weird little fractures

603
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: in this fan community. Um. And it's weird because like

604
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the folks, even with these kind of

605
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: impartial documentaries, the people who follow them are a lot

606
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: of the trolls who torment her. So it's all this

607
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: like weird riberose of the Internet being a mistake. Um. Obviously,

608
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,959
Speaker 1: you know at this point, Kiwi Farms has largely moved

609
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: on from Christian She's still a topic of discussion and

610
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: from time to time. But um and in fact, she's

611
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: like the kind of the first loll cow, you know,

612
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: the first person they treat this way, Um, but they

613
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: have a bunch of other They spend a lot more

614
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: of their time focusing on other folks. I think at

615
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: this point, Um, she's kind of beneath interest for a

616
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: lot of them, they're kind of bored of it. U

617
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: four chan is also more or less over her. But

618
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: the years of obsession in the different pranks and ons

619
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: played on her are part of the site's DNA. Now,

620
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: in fact, the harassment of Christine Chandler has been going

621
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: on for so long that it has it has had

622
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: an influence on the DNA of the entire modern Internet.

623
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: Like there is ship that like Russian troll farms were

624
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: doing that was pioneered in the campaigns of harassment against

625
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: this person. Um and yeah, it's it's this kind of

626
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: architecture of harassment that is such a mainstay of online discourse,

627
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: was built in large part to funk with this one person.

628
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: And that brings me to the end of the story

629
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: for now. This well, uh, late in um a user

630
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: on Kiwi Farms posted a phone call with Chris Chan.

631
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: The audio is a woman clearly a member of Kiwi

632
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: Farms rolling Chandler talking to her about Chris Chan's desire

633
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: for an incestuous relationship with her mother and if you remember,

634
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: they as a threat got her to like claimed and yeah, exactly, um.

635
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: Business Insider notes that quote. In August two sixteen, Chandler

636
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: wrote a Facebook status defending a mother and son in

637
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: Mexico who reportedly said they were in love, which The

638
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: Daily Mail reported at the time. Although incest is quite

639
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: a controversial topic, these are circuit There are circumstances where

640
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: there would not be so much harm as one may think, feel,

641
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: or believe. She said, unless the sex act was abusive, hurtful,

642
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: or would result in an unwanted birth of a physical

643
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: or mental challenge child, I would not judge or persecute

644
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: the parent and child. Chandler wrote that she herself had

645
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 1: dreams of having sex with her mother, although she never

646
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: acted on them, and like, who knows the degree to

647
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: which this is true? Um, because she also just says

648
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: ship for reactions, But like, she's also getting pretty detailed

649
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: in this. In this call with this Kiwi Farms member

650
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: Chris chan states that the fan fix these like things

651
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 1: she said to her fans on the internet about wanting

652
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: to have a relationship with her mom, had become a reality. Now.

653
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: I am not going to play any graphic details from

654
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: this call in which Christine discusses molesting her very elderly mother. Um,

655
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: but I will play a segment where the person calling

656
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: her explains her interest in Christery because it provides some

657
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: insight into how these people keep tricking christine relationship. But

658
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: I just thought, because I'm not huge on Christie and

659
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: you know whatever, I just thought that the hostntry franchise

660
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: is really interesting. And that's how I got into you

661
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: when I was younger, Right, but I had I hadn't

662
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: had any idea that Barbara was that Barbara and you

663
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: had that sort of relationship. I never got any of

664
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: those vibes. But um, how did you approach her? I'm

665
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 1: not sure, but care and cautious. It was a time,

666
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: it was a time prost So I just gave her

667
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: comfort to talk with her justly out slow and today

668
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: and then I and I heard her positively like her

669
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: make the first move she want, so she did really

670
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: she made the first move. You hear that excitement in

671
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: her voice when she gets Chris to admit to that, Like, yep,

672
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: you get what's she's doing here, right, the degree to

673
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: which she is fishing for responses. Um, And that's pretty clear.

674
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: I think if you listen to the whole tape, it's

675
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: pretty clear. Um. So it goes on. The audio was

676
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: subsequently shared by null of Kiwi Farms, and in short

677
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: order it goes viral on Reddit. Now that audio contains

678
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: claims by Chandler again that she's molested her seventy year

679
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: old mother. I have no idea whether or not Christine

680
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: actually did anything with her mom. It is certainly not impossible, right, Um.

681
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: But there's again numerous documented instances of Christian being convinced

682
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: or led to lying about things, or even fantasizing about

683
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: things that never happened as if they had happened, because again,

684
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: she's been convinced that like all these sort of fan

685
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: to sees of hers are real by like people who

686
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: often pretend to be character she's created, breaking through some

687
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: dimensional barrier and then like catfishing her like she doesn't

688
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: have a great grasp on what is actually happening in

689
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: physical reality anymore, um her lawyer, because this hall winds

690
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: up being a big court case. Her lawyer seems to

691
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: be making this claim, saying quote, Miss chandlers frequent and

692
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: sometimes over the top presence on the Internet is partly

693
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: a product of mental health issues causing misguided attention seeking

694
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: and often provocative engagement with others. Um. So, within hours

695
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: of this call going viral on Reddit, Chris Chan starts

696
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: to trend on Twitter. Leaked text messages begin to go

697
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: viral at around the same time. Um And in response

698
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: to some of these Chandler tweets, quote, there is drama

699
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: in the air today, Each and every one of you

700
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 1: are all encouraged to withdraw from any and all dramas, gossip,

701
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: rumors and whatever else will and already has approached your

702
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: way today. So she's trying to like clamp down on

703
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: some of the stuff. It doesn't work. She gets arrested

704
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: on August one on suspicion of incest, which is a

705
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: fifth degree felony in Virginia. Additional charges are noted to

706
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: be pending. Her arrest was, of course live streamed by

707
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: a right wing troll named Ethan Ralph in the video,

708
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: Chandler was heard telling Ralph everything is going to be

709
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: all right. The Green County Sheriff's Office later states that

710
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: Chandler was being charged due to allegations of sex crimes

711
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: against a family member. As you might expect from Central

712
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: Virginia law enforcement, the fact that chris Chan was trans

713
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: immediately becomes an issue. She was initially listed as female

714
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: in the jails online system, but her gender was changed

715
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,479
Speaker 1: to mail a day or so later. The jail gave

716
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: no reason for the change, and hooray, hooray, what's the

717
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: that's the you know, most of the time when you

718
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: think about like um uh, people who are in hell

719
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: because of the way that their um nerdive urgence is

720
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: treated by society, usually think about psychiatric institutes, right, and

721
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: you think about how like M. P. Pull in psychiatric institutes,

722
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: the you know, we'll put people in hell mentally. It's

723
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: the democratization of that. It's the decentralization of you no

724
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: longer need an institute to um completely ruin a nerd

725
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: of viurgent person's life. Everyone can have yeah, part of them.

726
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: We have essentially create allowed random thirteen year old kids

727
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: in forums to craft little mental asylums that we they

728
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: can then trick people into being in or force them

729
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: into being in and locked them into using the internet. Cool, good, good,

730
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: good thing we've built. Yeah, it's it's just Um, this

731
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: is but this is like why I think people have

732
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: to look at this and what has happened, because I

733
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: don't think people often see that like that is what's

734
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: going on online, Like this is a seedy underbelly. And

735
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: from this kind of this gross little under billy that

736
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: doesn't get much attention, the tactics that are pioneered here

737
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: filter up and do get used by institutions and organizations

738
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: on a grander scale to carry out targeted harassment for

739
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: often political purposes. Um. And that's that's a story worth telling.

740
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: And you know what other stories worth telling? Margaret? What's that?

741
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: The story of how has an island off the coast

742
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: of Indonesia where you, assuming you have several hundred thousand

743
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: dollars to spend um, and your friends, assuming they are

744
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: equally financially well off, can hunt children for sport and

745
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: for food. You know, I'm I'm vegan. Do they have

746
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 1: options where they provide after I hunt the child, where

747
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: they provide other other they actually have a Tempe version

748
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: of of child brisket that that's quite actually quite good.

749
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: Often when I'm there, I sometimes prefer the Tempe you know,

750
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: not bad. You know, you can get and and and

751
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: they'll they'll they'll mount your trophy while you eat, so

752
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's really great. Everything is good in the world.

753
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: This bit is getting old. I feel good about old Sophie.

754
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: This one's getting there. You have to go old Dorito's

755
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: days when you when a bit gets old, you gotta

756
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: keep it going for two to three weeks at least

757
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: after it's old and many. Yeah, you got to really

758
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: make it be a problem for folks, to be fair,

759
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: it was old three weeks ago. Yeah, but I never listen.

760
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: But does listen these products and services? Yeah, uh, we're

761
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: back and I'm thinking about what the next bit will be.

762
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: I can always judge because I cycled through a few

763
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: and and really it's the one that makes Sophie react

764
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: like she wants to hit me. That's when I know

765
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: I found a good new bit, which I would never do.

766
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: Never ever. You did throw a thing at me once

767
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: you you harmed Anderson. I didn't harm Anderson. I accidentally

768
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 1: cut you with a machete. Yeah, but you were swinging

769
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: it Anderson. Yeah, but I didn't harm Anderson. She's traumatized.

770
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: She's fine, she loves machete's Anderson knows she's always safe

771
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: around me with a machete. Yeah, but her mom is

772
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: all right. Well that was Look, there was a lot

773
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: going on, and in fairness to me, I was on

774
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: a lot of painkillers. So I feel like that's fair Sophie.

775
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: And you threw you threw things at me, Yeah, but

776
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: I didn't make contact. Unfortunately. Is this all just like

777
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: a little life lesson and about complicity and culpability? Yes, everything,

778
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 1: every thing is. And now you're all culpable and complicit

779
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: for listening. So thank you, thank you for thank you.

780
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of complicity. Um, speaking of complicity, the

781
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: jail system, the criminal justice system. But they'll be so

782
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: good about both trans issues and mental health issues, right, Yeah,

783
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: this is definitely going to make everything better for Christine

784
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: being incarcerated. So the judge decides to hold her without

785
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: bond um, both for her safety and for public safety,

786
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: largely due to the fact that there's like immediately immediate

787
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: circus around the fact that she has been arrested. Um,

788
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: the online ship show that's just always around her accelerated

789
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: mightily after her arrest. In Local Virginia News, she was

790
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: listed as a quote transgender internet personality. Now this is

791
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: fucked up for a number of reasons, including the fact that,

792
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,959
Speaker 1: like the fact that she's trans is almost no part

793
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: of this story up until it gets made that by

794
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: the conservative media. Like it's pretty late in her career

795
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: as a public person, and it's never really the focus

796
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 1: of any of like the ship she does that's like

797
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: like you know, trying to run down the run owner

798
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: for video game store or something like it. Only it

799
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: becomes the central part of the story once mainstream conservative

800
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: media picks it up. Um. Now, that local Virginia news

801
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: article I found on k v i A did go

802
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: into detail about her background as an internet personality, but

803
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: the article is still framed in such a way as

804
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: to allege that like she is, like being trans is

805
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: a a central part of her identity as a creator,

806
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 1: like that, like like you see what they're doing there, right,

807
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to like there, that's the thing. The

808
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: I think that kind of more mainstream sources don't know

809
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: what to do with someone who's with Christian's actual story,

810
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: which is very complicated and very weird, has a bunch

811
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: of things in it. But trans people are always a

812
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: culture war thing the right can grasp onto, and so

813
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: that's just what they do here. And it's I mean,

814
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: it's I can't speak for all trans people, but I

815
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: know that, like, being trans is like not a huge

816
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: part of my life, Like I mean it it is

817
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: because it has to be, because I have to think

818
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: about my safety everywhere I go. I have to think

819
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: about how people are going to treat me, whether or

820
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: not I'm actually in a good place. You know, all

821
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: of these things right that people who are marginalized along

822
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: a lot of different axis have to every day. But

823
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: it's like I I totally understand the like, no, I

824
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: just happened to be a woman, Like it's not the

825
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: center of my like being, you know. It's it's like

826
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: three weeks ago or so, people in Ukraine were just

827
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: as vulnerable to getting shot by artillery as they are now,

828
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 1: but it was less of a factor in their life

829
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: because people weren't shooting at them. Yeah. Yeah, So The

830
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: Daily Mail also identified her as trans YouTuber Christian Um,

831
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: also calling her a YouTuber is not really particularly accurate

832
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: because that's not really the primary thing that she did anyway.

833
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: But again, this is the Daily Mail, so did the

834
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: Blaze who? And The Blaze, as it describes her this way,

835
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: describes Ethan Ethan Ralph, that that right wing videographer as

836
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 1: a podcaster and streamer. It does not know that Ethan

837
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: Ralph was arrested in two thousand sixteen for felony assault

838
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: on a police officer and had a warrant for his

839
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: arrest sent out in November one for violating a restraining order.

840
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: He's just a podcaster and streamer. Yeah. Um. The corners

841
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 1: of the Internet, who had been mocking or obsessively following

842
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: Chandler for years at this point, reacted in predictable ways,

843
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: and for them this became yet another chapter in her

844
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: weird and winding story. But for the right wing media,

845
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: Chandler was a perfect example of the danger of the

846
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: trans menace, a suitably bizarre individual they could use as

847
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: a scapegoat. On August six, while Chandler sat in jail,

848
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson devoted an entire segment of his show, more

849
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: than five minutes of primetime coverage to Christine Chandler. I

850
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: really do apologize, but I feel the need to play

851
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: some of Tucker's coverage here so you can see where

852
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: he takes this. A YouTube personality called Chris Chan has

853
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: just been arrested in Virginia on of all things, incests charges.

854
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: Authorities say Chan was having sex with his seventy nine

855
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: year old mother, who has dementia. Chris Chan is a

856
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 1: biological man, but he identifies as a woman. Reportedly, Virginia

857
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: authorities initially went along with that. They classified Christian as

858
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: a female, and that means Chris Chan, who is an

859
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: accused sex criminal, would have been housed in a women's jail.

860
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: We understand this decision has been reversed, likely due to

861
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: public pressure. It became public unfortunately for the state of Virginia,

862
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: and Chan is now being considered a man by the jail.

863
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: But this is not an isolated incident. Many prisons in

864
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: this country do house biological men with women. This is

865
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: something we subpected. I think that's about enough, so you

866
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: see what's happened here, right This story has been turned

867
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: into what you know, a culture war issue over like

868
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: the danger of trans people and women like in women's presence,

869
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: like that's that's that's what Tucker finds useful in it, right, Um,

870
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: And that's where it immediately gets turned Um. And obviously,

871
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: the real story of Christian is of a an individual

872
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: who is profoundly sick um and has been for a

873
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: long time in ways that have nothing to do with

874
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: their gender identity. Um. They are primarily the victim of

875
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: abusive parenting, of bullying from peers, of an inadequate educational system,

876
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: and of course of her own bad choices and bigotry. Um.

877
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: All of these problems were exacerbated by an unprecedented campaign

878
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: of online harassment, probably more significant and encompassing than any

879
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: other single individual on Earth has endured. Um. There are

880
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot of things to take out of the story

881
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: of Christian, But of course, once she went viral enough

882
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: for the mainstream conservative media to focus on her, everything

883
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 1: about her story gets boiled down to a trans ultrue

884
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: war thing. Yeah, it's funny, as if it happened in

885
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: the UK would be uh, you know, people claiming to

886
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 1: be on the left who would be making this same

887
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: cultural war arguments about sexual assaulting men and women's jail

888
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you can find

889
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: folks on the left here who made that argument. I

890
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: tried not to delve too much into the YouTube discourse

891
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: around this arrest, because who needs that ship. Um. Chandler's

892
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: time in prison or in court was as surreal as

893
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: you'd expect. Um. She repeatedly has to go home to

894
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: get some of her things, like her video games and stuff. Um. Yeah, yeah.

895
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: She told the judge, I'm famous on the internet, like

896
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: interrupted him at one point when he was talking about

897
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: his concerned that people would seek at her location, which

898
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: is like why he justified keeping her on bond. Um.

899
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: Chandler was present at hearings in November of one in

900
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: February of two where her case was subject to continuances.

901
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: Her next court case is July two. She remains incarcerated

902
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: and her only connection to the outside world has been

903
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: through written correspondence and phone calls, all of which have

904
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 1: been dutally analyzed and shared with the community of people

905
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: who follow her every move. A large reason for the

906
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: continuances seems to be that her defense attorney is attempting

907
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 1: to get her mental health evaluated. I think he's going

908
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: for a like she is not competent to stand trial.

909
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: I don't think she is Yeah, easy to prove, um,

910
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: but so because these people are still reaching out to

911
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: her and stuff, and because she is the person that

912
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: she is at this point and has been kind of

913
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: trained in the way she has been. Three days after

914
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: her first continuance, she writes a letter to knowl from

915
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: Kiwi Farms and her defense lawyer, in which she defends

916
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: incests and claims to be Jesus Christ's reincarnation. Um yep,

917
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: which is both like you could see as admitting that

918
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: she carried out the behavior she's accused of, but also,

919
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: I would argue, is pretty good evidence that she has

920
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: not at all competent to stand trial. Um. I don't

921
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: know what's actually going to happen with this case. I

922
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: there's not much to hope for I. I because I

923
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of faith that like there's an

924
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: institution that knows how to deal help her at all.

925
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what. Like this is like a

926
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: tragic case where the thing that's actually needed is a

927
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: very patient, very emotionally intelligent, nice person to help her.

928
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: Social workers. Yeah, a team of very well paid social workers,

929
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: right right, Like that's if we actually if those existed

930
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: anywhere in the United States. Yeah, those are contradictory. And

931
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: what I know is in social work wants out just

932
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: because they can't afford rent. Yeah, but but that's what's necessary,

933
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: is like a team of people who care need to

934
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: like help the radicaliz is in't the right word, like,

935
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: but like need to try and help undo some of

936
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 1: the damage and help her break some of these terribly

937
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: toxic patterns that she's gotten into. Um, she needs to

938
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: not I'm not I don't think like banning anyone from

939
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: the Internet is going to help, but she needs to

940
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: not be online. Right. I'm not saying I don't believe

941
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: that a judge should order her off the internet forever.

942
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: I think that would be more harmful than any than helpful.

943
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: But like what she definitely part of what she needs

944
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: is to not be so fucking online, um, because that

945
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: ain't doing any favors for or to somehow be disconnected

946
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: from the like um yeah, like like I have a

947
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 1: feeling that for her, and I'm so not a mental

948
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: health expert or anything, um, but I have a feeling

949
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: that the ability to continue to post content probably is

950
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: like very important for her, right and like and probably

951
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: very important for some people who earnestly like what what

952
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: she does, um, but some way to keep the online coming,

953
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: like if the internet became a one way thing for

954
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: her somehow, like she has these people to like, I mean,

955
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: I've had to do this where like you know, if

956
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: I have an article go up on a website with

957
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: real bad trolls, my friends are just like, uh, don't

958
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: read the article, don't read the comments here, I'll tell

959
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: you the good ones and just don't look. Yeah, I'm

960
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: not saying this is the magic solution to seventeen. No, no,

961
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: there's there's no magic solution. Um, but yeah, something some

962
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: fucking thing like that, right, um yeah, or I don't know. Yeah, boy,

963
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: it's quite a pickle, this, this whole situation, um, and

964
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what's to be done about it, but

965
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: like it's it undergird's everything that the internet is today. Yeah, yeah,

966
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: it's all the things that people could do because I mean,

967
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, people I know, or people would do to

968
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: me things that they would then laugh about amongst ten people,

969
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: and so those ten people would find it funny that,

970
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, whatever happened or whatever. And then I mean

971
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: it's also one of those things where it's like I

972
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 1: think things happen and this is a little bit projection

973
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: or something, but like things happen to trans women before

974
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: we come out, that mostly only happened to women, like

975
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: to women who are known to be women at the

976
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: time of the harassment or something like that. And so I,

977
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's a coincidence that game

978
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: or Gate, uh you know, the first large scale, to

979
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: my understanding, large scale, systematic um use of this type

980
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: of thing over more than one person. I don't think

981
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: it's a coincidence that it first happened to a woman,

982
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: um who, even if no one involved knew that it

983
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: was happening to a woman. And maybe it is a coincidence.

984
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm just like you know, looking out for

985
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: like even my home of I don't know, it really

986
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: depends on how she feels about still racist O kind

987
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: I think she might still be. I don't know. I

988
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: think it's certainly less less like of a thing than

989
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: it used to be. Um she I don't think she's

990
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: uh anti gay anymore? Yeah, But which which does show,

991
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: like I guess some of like and this is both

992
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: positive and negative because like the good thing is that Okay,

993
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: so she's clearly capable of growth and change. But the

994
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: ugly side of that is that, like all of her

995
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: growth and change has occurred within the context of this

996
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: bizarre world of internet harassment, that she's really the only

997
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: person who has ever endured to this extent um. And

998
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, this is a hard sell when you were

999
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: like the person who has been harassed more than and

1000
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know some people who had to like

1001
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: move houses and like, you know, yeah, I've had like

1002
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, And then I'm like, oh, yeah, no, okay, okay, Yeah,

1003
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: Fortunately she hasn't to my knowledge. Software I guess she's

1004
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, the story that you brought up at

1005
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: the very beginning of someone being driven to suicide by bullo, yes,

1006
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, um, and that happening with maybe increasing frequency

1007
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: or maybe I'm just aware of it. Yeah, I mean

1008
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: it's hard to like rate that from like is it

1009
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: getting more common or not? I don't really know, um,

1010
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, I yeah, I hope she gets that, like

1011
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: uh unicorn social worker who uh can figure out some

1012
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: way to better enable her to exist in the world

1013
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: without being as prone to the harms that have befallen

1014
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: her as she currently is. Yep, Yeah, it is weird.

1015
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: Like I think if she had never it's that it's

1016
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: the kind of question like if she had never engaged

1017
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: with the people making fun of for stuff online, would

1018
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: this still be happening? And obviously you can't do that,

1019
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: But so much of it is because um, she never

1020
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: learned that kind of lesson that clearly people in her

1021
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: early life. We're trying to treat you the teacher that

1022
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: like you. Um, if you show people where you're vulnerable,

1023
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: that's where they're going to attack you. Yeah, And it's

1024
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's heartbreaking though, right, because like, if we

1025
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: have a culture where in order to produce content you

1026
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: have to have a thicker skin, you are creating a

1027
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 1: culture where people who um are prone to having a

1028
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: thicker skin are the people who are going to come

1029
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,479
Speaker 1: forward and be being held up. And you're also gonna

1030
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: have like people, you know. I feel like we've probably

1031
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: all known people who started off kind of cool and

1032
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: then as they got more famous and they started like

1033
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: not listening, they had to stop listening to their haters,

1034
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: because if you listen to people hate you all day,

1035
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: nothing good going to come with that. But then they

1036
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: stopped listening to reasonable critique as well. You know, there's

1037
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: like there's so many reasons why vulnerability should be a

1038
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: possible a thing that we can do, you know, um

1039
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: as as creators. And it's just I mean, I don't know,

1040
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts about this, and some of

1041
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: it is even just like the way that like like

1042
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: walking down the street as as as a woman is

1043
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: more vulnerable than walking down the street as a man,

1044
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: just like in general, right, you are like basically saying

1045
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: like I am more vulnerable, but if you do it right,

1046
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: it's a position of strength. It's a position of like

1047
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm so strong that I can be this vulnerable, And

1048
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: I I wish I knew how to like cultivate that

1049
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: in in culture to allow that to happen more. Yeah,

1050
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: that's some I agree with you about the importance of that.

1051
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: I have no idea da how you because I think

1052
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: most of the people I know who have that it

1053
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: was kind of a process of um endurance that was

1054
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: produced by endurance eventually, you know. Um. And I because

1055
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like the sociopathic boomer responsive

1056
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: like well that's that's because what they actually need to

1057
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: do is just like tough at out you know, and

1058
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: that's the only way anything good ever happens. And it's like, no,

1059
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,919
Speaker 1: I don't think kids have to tough out psychopathic things

1060
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: being done to them by cruel people. And I actually

1061
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: don't think that's a good basis for like an ongoing

1062
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: understanding of how society should work. Yeah yeah, um, I

1063
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: don't think people should have to endure any of the

1064
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: things that Christian has endured. Um uh. And I don't

1065
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: think that the answer to like what's happened to her,

1066
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: what's happened to other people who have been in variations

1067
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: of this is like, well, they just needed to like

1068
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: get harrassed enough that they got over it. Yeah, yeah,

1069
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: ah cool. All right, well Margaret, Margaret, it's time for

1070
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: the plug. How you doing. Yeah, Well, if you want

1071
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: to hear about good things, that's an excellent no, Margaret, Margaret,

1072
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: what's that first word? If no? No, no, no, good

1073
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: good good good. Sorry, Robert's not familiar type dictionary dot

1074
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: com in the Google it's g g U D Robert.

1075
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: It's that thing that we do every once in a

1076
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: while around Christmas, get really drunk on mold wine. That too,

1077
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: But I mean that is a good thing. If avery

1078
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 1: an alligator in the dirt and start a fire over it.

1079
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: That is a good thing, depending on your choices. Just you, Robert, Okay,

1080
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: please continue, Margaret, I think I understand. Yeah, So I

1081
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: am a host of a new podcast on I forget

1082
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 1: the name of the network. It's like a refrigerator zone

1083
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 1: is something about like a place that things are cold,

1084
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: a place that things are cold. You mean freezing yeah,

1085
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,439
Speaker 1: on freezing media on cool Zone Media. I'm I'm I'm

1086
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: starting a new podcast called Cool People Did Cool Stuff.

1087
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: And it will not well, actually, I'm sure there will

1088
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: still be horrible tragic things that happen, because lots of

1089
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: bad things happen to good people also, um, especially when

1090
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: people are trying to do cool stuff. But it is

1091
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: a show about cool people who are trying to do

1092
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: cool stuff or did cool stuff. And it launches May second.

1093
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: And then I also have like a bunch of books

1094
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: and music and all kinds of other things. And um,

1095
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: I am on Twitter at Magpie kill Joy and I

1096
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Margaret Killjoy. We're off following Margaret. What

1097
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: you doing? Yeah, what are you doing? What are you doing?

1098
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Come on, come on, it's just weird. Yeah,

1099
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: sunk off, Well, funk over to Margaret's Twitter account. Fix

1100
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: your error? Yeah, and uh you know that's the episode.

1101
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1102
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,479
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1103
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the

1104
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1105
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: your podcasts.