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Speaker 1: Place your left hand on the bay Bible and raise

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Speaker 1: your right hand and repeat after me. I do solemnly

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Speaker 1: swear the jury find a defendant not. Protests continued this

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Speaker 1: weekend at Ferguson and around the country. Resisting makes no sense.

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Speaker 1: If it doesn't fit, you must have quit. Judge, you

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Speaker 1: are the last line of reason in this casey, every

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Speaker 1: one of us took it all the sapotas, and we're

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Speaker 1: sworn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. Is this

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Speaker 1: Mason Lindsay, Yes, this is Don't ever call me about this.

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Speaker 1: I don't like your brother, don't like you, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know a god damn thing about the murderit case

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Speaker 1: you asked me about. But I do to know about y'all.

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Speaker 1: What a bunch of swine you are, So don't ever

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Speaker 1: call me. Okay. After decades of working within the criminal

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Speaker 1: justice system, I've seen that I've experienced firsthand the told

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Speaker 1: the job takes on those who dedicate their lives to

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Speaker 1: public safety, whether you're a sheriff or a local police officer,

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Speaker 1: and a heinous crime takes place in your town. You

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Speaker 1: want that case to be solved. You need it to

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Speaker 1: be closed, and quite frankly, you want the right person

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Speaker 1: behind bars. You've sworn to protect your community. But what

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Speaker 1: happens when a case starts to slip away? What happens

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Speaker 1: when you still can't find the answers after a year,

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Speaker 1: after two years, three years, ten years, fifteen years? What

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Speaker 1: can the criminal justice system do to keep these cold

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Speaker 1: cases alive? When responsibility for solving a case changes hands

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Speaker 1: time and time again, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: who really does bear the burden of Solider kids? On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, we'll explore all this through the framework of

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Speaker 1: the Wideman Kids still unsolved after fifth teen years. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Mr Wise, ye hi, this is Philip Holloway from the

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Speaker 1: Sworn podcast. How are you doing good? If you have

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Speaker 1: just a minute, do you mind speaking with me about

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Speaker 1: the Wideman case. I have a minute to speak with

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Speaker 1: you about it. It's my understanding you were one of

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Speaker 1: the first people to arrive on the scene. Is that correct, Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: I was the first one to get there. I was

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Speaker 1: actually a fire powder for the County Powder Corfet turn

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Speaker 1: the Carty Macnya, so I was a volunteer you. So

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Speaker 1: that morning we had a had a fire. I responded

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Speaker 1: to in my personal vehicle, called inside a fire department,

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Speaker 1: and another guy was picking up the fire truth so

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Speaker 1: I got to the scene before. So you were actually

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Speaker 1: the first person to arrive, Yester, I was the first

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Speaker 1: one to arrive at a m on March twenty second

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Speaker 1: two thou and two, a truck driver passing through Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: Georgia saw a large fire from the highway. After the

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Speaker 1: driver called the Turner County Volunteer Fire Department responded and

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Speaker 1: James Wise was the first one at the scene. When

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Speaker 1: I got into that place, I always up the driveway.

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Speaker 1: I backed all the way just about out to the

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Speaker 1: highway where they had some double gates, and I parked there.

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Speaker 1: It was a real dark night sometimes you have those freeeding.

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Speaker 1: I walked up to that house and it was dark

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Speaker 1: and just had a bad feeling that morning. Once I

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Speaker 1: looked around and I've seen all the cars there, I

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Speaker 1: just had a feeling those people was in the house.

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Speaker 1: Because always the home the property belonged to the Wideman family,

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Speaker 1: and the house there was engulfed in flames within minutes

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Speaker 1: of the firefighter's arrival. The roof of the one story

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Speaker 1: home had collapsed. The Whiteman's vehicles were parked around the property,

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Speaker 1: but the Widen family was nowhere to be found. When

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Speaker 1: I got there, the whole house. You could see the

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Speaker 1: whole front of the house. It wasn't burning. Burning at

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Speaker 1: the end of the house would but it was a

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Speaker 1: very windy morning. It was. It was real windy that morning.

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Speaker 1: It was just crushing the fire. Actually it prushed the

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Speaker 1: fire all the way from one end of the house

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Speaker 1: out the other end. That they had a big field

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Speaker 1: of pine trees there, and it actually called trees on

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Speaker 1: fire out there. I went to the front door, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't not from the front door. The front door

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Speaker 1: was shooting. And I can steal a memory real good

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Speaker 1: that it's a solid white front door. And so I

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Speaker 1: made it to the door, but I wasn't never able

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Speaker 1: to make the entry into the home. I called on

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Speaker 1: the radio and informed them that on the cards the day,

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Speaker 1: and I felt like that they possibly was in the house.

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Speaker 1: Actually called and told him they was probably home. If

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Speaker 1: I can remember properly, it seemed like we were on

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Speaker 1: the outside of the house and could look in one

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Speaker 1: of the fig rings. When we first distubored one of

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Speaker 1: the bodies. Fifty one year old Tommy Joe or T. J. Wideman,

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Speaker 1: forty eight year old Devor Wheeler Wideman, and the twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old pregnant daughter Melissa were found dead inside

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Speaker 1: of the decimated home. They were very bad. They was

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Speaker 1: like their legs. It was just like the torsos and

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Speaker 1: Leo if burnt. If they was burnt, pretty bad. We

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Speaker 1: put the victims then body bag. They loaded them up.

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Speaker 1: They took him to have to the crime now I

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Speaker 1: think where they took them. But when they lay them,

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Speaker 1: it didn't take them long. They called the Stack We

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Speaker 1: were still on the scene to share. He found out

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Speaker 1: when we got back these people been shot. It started

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Speaker 1: as a terrible and inexplicable house fire, but when the

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Speaker 1: fire ended, a more disturbing mystery began. The fire hadn't

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Speaker 1: been the cause of death for any of the Wideman's.

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Speaker 1: All of them had been shot, and the fire that

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Speaker 1: was deemed the result of person It wasn't immediately apparent

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Speaker 1: that they had been shot. It took some further examination

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Speaker 1: to figure that out. That's why I actually they was

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Speaker 1: just kind of treating it like it wasn't like they

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Speaker 1: hadn't been shot. Ory, it's not like that. After they

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Speaker 1: called back, everything has changed. Right after the g P

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Speaker 1: I got there and started talking. They weren't to interview.

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Speaker 1: He asked me. He said, what made you feel like

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Speaker 1: stare is wrong here today? I feel well, I said.

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Speaker 1: The first thing. Every who called, they wasn't here at

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Speaker 1: the house when I got here, and they said a

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Speaker 1: struck driver rocket, So it raised my speak. It's just

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Speaker 1: phrase without the ordinary. I said. So I just down

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Speaker 1: here and I've seen all the cars here, and I

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Speaker 1: felt like the people get home. I did not know

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Speaker 1: that being shot or anything like that, but things just wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Time I got I said, well, something's wrong. There ain't

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Speaker 1: nobody here, because nine times out of ten, if a

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Speaker 1: person calls, they wait till we get there. If they're

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Speaker 1: sitting there. There was no one there when I pulled up.

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Speaker 1: It's about twelve thirteen miles Master. Like people responding to

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Speaker 1: the fire, most of them had to come all the

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Speaker 1: way from Master. I knew the sheriff got there pretty quick,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be honest, I kind of luke the

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Speaker 1: round and watched stains, and I know that, uh, I

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Speaker 1: can't remember him going to Mr Charles Henry's, which was

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Speaker 1: the guy that was deceased in the house's brother, because

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Speaker 1: we had him had the fire full extinguished, and I

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Speaker 1: remember him pulling up out front. He got out and

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Speaker 1: looked and you know, and he left. He didn't say

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Speaker 1: you along. But after it got daylight, there were several

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Speaker 1: of my officers here, and like I said, they called

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Speaker 1: a g b I mean they came to see because

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Speaker 1: he interviewed me after seeing it was the same day.

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Speaker 1: So then it seems that the sheriff brought the g

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Speaker 1: b I in pretty much right away. Yes, sir, who

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Speaker 1: was the sheriff at that time, Randy Kendrick. Was it

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Speaker 1: your impression that the g b I took over the

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Speaker 1: case from the very beginning yesterday? They took over the case.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody at the g b I or anyone in

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Speaker 1: law enforcement ever talk to you about any potential suspects

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Speaker 1: that they might have or they may have been looking

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Speaker 1: at that They never talked to me after that day.

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Speaker 1: After the gp I talked to me, I know what

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Speaker 1: everything contact. What was the coroner's role in this, you know,

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Speaker 1: him being the corner, he just wanted, you know, pronounced

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Speaker 1: them to be and he comes out and get them.

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Speaker 1: Anyone that made the call back after he took the body.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember who the coroner was at the time,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty do you know what Edgar Perry's normal job

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Speaker 1: was his brother, So he's not a medical trained person.

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Speaker 1: He's not a physician. He's a funeral home owner or

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Speaker 1: a funeral director who also was the elected coroner. Is

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Speaker 1: that right? That's right, that's right, So he would have

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Speaker 1: had to have some medical professional help him determine that

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Speaker 1: they had been shot. For clarification, the coroner, Edgar Perry,

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Speaker 1: is an elected official, not a physician, but a funeral

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Speaker 1: homeowner in Turner County. He wouldn't be the sole voice

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Speaker 1: in determining the cause of death for the wideman's but

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Speaker 1: he would be the one to certify their death within

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Speaker 1: his area of jurisdiction. The incident took place in the

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Speaker 1: small town of Rebecca, Georgia, which is part of Turner County,

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Speaker 1: roughly two and a half hours south of Atlanta. Rebecca

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Speaker 1: is a quiet place without a lot of devious crime,

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Speaker 1: least of all a triple homicide. Firstly, Rebecca is really

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Speaker 1: really small, only about point eight square miles, not exactly

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Speaker 1: the kind of place you'd think of as a hotbed

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Speaker 1: for crime. According to the latest census records, there's a

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Speaker 1: population of under two hundred people. The next biggest town,

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Speaker 1: about twelve miles away, is Ashburn, with population under four thousand.

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Speaker 1: Farmings still probably the main income, but there's no factories

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Speaker 1: or anything done in Rebecca except some little communience stores.

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Speaker 1: That's Patti Jones, whose mother and her whole family were

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Speaker 1: from Rebecca growing up. Patty spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: there and new t J. Wideman personally because his family

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Speaker 1: on the local hardware store. We were all shocked because

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Speaker 1: t J was loving, kind person. He would never hurt anybody.

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Speaker 1: He was always helpful. He had a great sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: He was disabled. I don't know if it was by birth,

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Speaker 1: but he had a hard time getting around and walk

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Speaker 1: were the kane, so he could ever really hurting one.

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Speaker 1: It was just a great guy to be around, always cheerful,

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Speaker 1: even though he was in a bad disposition. When I

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Speaker 1: saw t J at the Mark, we started talking because

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Speaker 1: we were trying to catch up, and he told me

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Speaker 1: that he was the tax commissioner of the county, and

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Speaker 1: you know that that job a lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: like you because of that, and so we laughed about it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he talked about his daughter, Melissa was pregnant.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was like, wow, that's great. And he

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Speaker 1: didn't tell me that she wasn't married, but I really

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Speaker 1: didn't know how old she was or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: But they were all excited about her gonna have the baby. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, speculation. Everybody was like, Okay, well, it could

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Speaker 1: have been somebody that didn't like him because he was

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Speaker 1: a tax commissioner, or because maybe Melissa something's about the baby.

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Speaker 1: And then there was always speculation that maybe because his brother,

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Speaker 1: this was a rumor that his brother was not in

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Speaker 1: the wheel or something like that, so people speculated that

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Speaker 1: maybe his brother had had something to do with it.

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Speaker 1: I know he and his brother weren't real close. Of course,

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Speaker 1: everybody has their own theories, so I hate to jump

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Speaker 1: to one because I don't really know Charles either. That

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Speaker 1: was just hearsay. Everybody was just floored because everybody loved

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Speaker 1: t J. And he was very verbal and great guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, had a happy attitude and just devastated. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: floored that something so terrible could happen to such a

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Speaker 1: good guy and in his family. He was in the

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Speaker 1: center of the town, so everybody that needed anything at

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Speaker 1: the hardware store New T j. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: they weren't in their own house that night, they were

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Speaker 1: staying at his mother's house. And how would someone know

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Speaker 1: that that right there? Makes you wonder. You'd have to

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Speaker 1: make an effort to get to it. You'd have to

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Speaker 1: look for it. That night, the white mens were staying

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Speaker 1: in Tommy Joe's mother's use. This is something they did

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Speaker 1: whenever Tommy Joe's mother went down to her second home

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Speaker 1: in Florida. Reportedly, they stay there on and off for

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Speaker 1: extended periods of time. Her house and Rebecca is secluded,

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Speaker 1: not someplace you'd easily stumble upon down there. You don't

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Speaker 1: have a police there's no police station, there's you have

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Speaker 1: to rely on Ashburn. They don't have the facilities like

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Speaker 1: a big city. I mean, I'm sure the g b

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Speaker 1: I came in, but never heard anything about what they found.

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Speaker 1: It's a small town gets passed over. It's becomes uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just part of being in the small town atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: People probably just keep wandering and I know that nothing's

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Speaker 1: ever gonna be done about it, and hopefully the podcast

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Speaker 1: will bring out some more information, get things started, I hope,

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Speaker 1: but people Rebecca will come out and start talking about

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Speaker 1: it again. This is something I've heard before. Smalltown crime

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Speaker 1: does get passed over, sometimes simply because it affects a

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Speaker 1: smaller number of people in a place like Rebecca. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about minimal government services. We're talking about volunteer fire departments.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about law enforcement with longer response times. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about sheriff's departments that are spread very thin, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps a state trooper who passes by every now and then,

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Speaker 1: but for the most part, it's in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Local law enforcement, particularly the Sheriff's office, responded first along

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Speaker 1: with the corner but ultimately it was the Georgia Bureau

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Speaker 1: of Investigation that was called in and was handed control

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Speaker 1: and responsibility for investigating the widen emerged. I know a

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Speaker 1: thing or two myself about cold cases and what it

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Speaker 1: takes to investigate them, but I don't want you to

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Speaker 1: have to take my word for it, So I reached

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Speaker 1: back out to my friend John Dawes, who is a

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Speaker 1: subject matter expert in the field the cold case investigation.

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Speaker 1: He currently works for the Cobb County District Attorney's Office

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Speaker 1: in Marietta, Georgia. Before that, John was a very good

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Speaker 1: homicide detective who I've faced in court many times, and

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Speaker 1: so I know that he knows his stuff. What experience

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Speaker 1: if any of you had with a murder or a

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Speaker 1: homicide or a killing where the perpetrator used a fire

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Speaker 1: to destroy evidence of how someone was killed. I've been

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Speaker 1: involved in some cases like that. It's a person's attempt

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Speaker 1: to tamper with evidence to cover their trail. Does it work? Seldom?

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Speaker 1: When you bring in fire into a scene, yes, it

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Speaker 1: burns evidence in many aspects. But if you're not schooled

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Speaker 1: in how to start a fire and allow it to raise,

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Speaker 1: then sometimes it works against you. If you're using that

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Speaker 1: to cover your crime. Arson investigators come in, they can

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Speaker 1: determine the origin, They can determine whether or not an

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Speaker 1: accelerant was used, and then if you have a suspect

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Speaker 1: quickly enough, you can test them for the accelerant their clothing.

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Speaker 1: You and I stopped to get fuel in our car

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Speaker 1: on the way to the house. We're gonna have some

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Speaker 1: gas on us somewhere when we get home. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: works against the bad guy. If fire started and doesn't

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Speaker 1: fully in golf a structure, then you can still get

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Speaker 1: fingerprints because the oily substance left by the ridge impressions.

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Speaker 1: If it's a fully engulfed fire, then yes, it's very

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Speaker 1: challenging to get any evidence out of that scene. This

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Speaker 1: is a small town. Rebecca probably has two or three

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Speaker 1: hundred people living there, some related, some are as close

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Speaker 1: as relatives. Everybody knows everybody, and in all likelihood many

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Speaker 1: members of the law enforcement community are are well aware

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Speaker 1: of all the residents as well. I think that people

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Speaker 1: who are intimately close to a major crime like this,

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Speaker 1: the longer it goes unsolved, the more they just accept

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Speaker 1: that it won't ever be solved, and eventually, unfortunately, they

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Speaker 1: just stopped talking about it and just deal with it

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Speaker 1: as best they can. But rumors always abound in cases

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Speaker 1: like this that can be beneficial to the case, and

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Speaker 1: it can also throw the case off track. You really

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Speaker 1: have to spend a lot of time dusting off the case,

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Speaker 1: focusing yourself back into the facts of the case. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to get to a point where you don't

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Speaker 1: remember whether something is a fact of the case or

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Speaker 1: whether it's someone's opinion or theory about the case. So

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Speaker 1: our biggest author unknown phrases, keep it simple, stupid, and

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Speaker 1: go back to the facts of the case, the circumstances

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Speaker 1: of the case, and the physical evidence of the case.

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Speaker 1: In order to get someplace a small agency like this

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Speaker 1: sheriff's office, which I don't know. Turner County is probably

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Speaker 1: eight or ten thousand people. Small shaff's office, and it's

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Speaker 1: probably a widespread area, so their numbers would be probably

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Speaker 1: challenge men powerwise, but they may not see that much

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Speaker 1: violent crime like in other areas of Georgia. Regardless of that,

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Speaker 1: Sheriff's office desire to do the best that they can do.

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Speaker 1: Regardless of their ability to do the best that they

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Speaker 1: can do, they're gonna face challenges because of the closeness

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Speaker 1: of the community. You bring in uh the g B I,

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Speaker 1: I would suspect they came in from Perry, and those

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Speaker 1: gb agents are not known by the local people. They're

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Speaker 1: not seen in the area all the time. They don't

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Speaker 1: go to school with them, they don't go to church

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Speaker 1: with them. They don't know him as well, and they

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Speaker 1: may not be as free within their mind to talk

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Speaker 1: to a GBI agent where they might have Shaff's office. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you get more resources when you bring in the state agency,

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Speaker 1: and that's obviously good when it comes to getting the

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Speaker 1: postmortem examinations done and getting evidence processed, but it may

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Speaker 1: make the case more difficult to work for the GBI

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Speaker 1: because they don't know those people like the sheriff's office stuff.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible for a local era of to keep jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: if you will, for being the lead on the case,

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Speaker 1: but still utilize bits and pieces of state resources. My

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Speaker 1: understanding is that you want to and you're kind of

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Speaker 1: permitted to work alongside them. Like the sheriff's office likely

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Speaker 1: had an investigator assigned to the g b I to

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Speaker 1: keep things rolling and keep things between the two agencies.

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Speaker 1: I've been involved in some cases where the g b

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Speaker 1: I came in to assist and they took leads on

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Speaker 1: certain part of the cases. I kept leads on certain

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Speaker 1: part of the cases, and it was just kind of

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Speaker 1: communicated between us to keep everything on the same page,

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Speaker 1: make sure that we knew where each other was going.

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Speaker 1: But the state agency comes in as a request from

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Speaker 1: that sheriff to come in and head up the investigation.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure that there was some working together on

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Speaker 1: the case after fifteen years, what would you expect that

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Speaker 1: an investigator, whether it's the sheriff's officer or the gb I,

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Speaker 1: what would you expect them to be doing other than

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Speaker 1: waiting around for hopefully for some phone call. There are

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Speaker 1: a number of answers that I would want to gain

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Speaker 1: for myself through this investigation if I were assigned the

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Speaker 1: case today, And I would think that any investigator who

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Speaker 1: picks this case up and begins a thorough, methodical review

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Speaker 1: of the case would come across some of the same thoughts.

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Speaker 1: There are any number of things that that may have

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Speaker 1: been done back in the day with say cell phone records,

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Speaker 1: home phone records, the difference back then and I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether they got any cell tower information. Today we

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Speaker 1: can get cell sites and it's a very very minimized

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Speaker 1: area and attracts every tower that you hit. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot more towers now. In two thousand two, you

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Speaker 1: were looking at a very very different potential with cell phones.

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Speaker 1: They were gonna exist, but you only hit market areas

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Speaker 1: of towers. There were probably three in the state of Georgia,

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Speaker 1: so North Georgia, Brown Dalton and Atlanta and down near

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Speaker 1: Tifton or Videlli, and there may have been three market

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Speaker 1: areas for cell phones, So I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: research was done on those phones and the numbers that

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00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: were calling them talking to them, but that's something I

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Speaker 1: would want to know. I would want to know who

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Speaker 1: the biological father of this unborn infant was, and I

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Speaker 1: would want to talk to him and find out where

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Speaker 1: he was at that night. I would want to talk

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Speaker 1: to her family, the surviving family, and see what she

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Speaker 1: had been talking about about her relationship with the biological

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Speaker 1: father of this unborn baby. That would be my first

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Speaker 1: thought that comes to mind in my first area that

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to focus on. Back in uh the

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Speaker 1: early days, when I first started working murder cases, back

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Speaker 1: in the early nineties, there were a lot more domestic murders,

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Speaker 1: and then crime trends have changed. Drugs have changed, gangs

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Speaker 1: are more and so there is more stranger on stranger crime.

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Speaker 1: But when you're looking at a situation where you have

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Speaker 1: three people a man, a wife, and a child in

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Speaker 1: a house who were all murdered and then there was

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Speaker 1: an attempt to cover the evidence, then you you want

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Speaker 1: to focus on somebody that's known to those people, absolutely absolutely,

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Speaker 1: because if this is a stranger on stranger crime, why

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Speaker 1: would they try to burn the evidence. That makes no sense.

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Speaker 1: They're going to commit the crime and leave. I want

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Speaker 1: to know if there is any attempt to ransack the place,

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Speaker 1: if there's anything of value missing. Sometimes that's hard to

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Speaker 1: see in a fire scene, but my understanding from a

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Speaker 1: couple of articles I read that their vehicles was there

379
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Speaker 1: and there was nothing obvious that had been taken from

380
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Speaker 1: the house. So I've got to look at at a

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Speaker 1: domestic situation. You've got three people that are all at home.

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Speaker 1: It had to have occurred late at night because the

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Speaker 1: fire was seen at what three thirty in the morning,

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Speaker 1: So you're probably looking at a midnight crime time when

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Speaker 1: all the parties were known to be at home by

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Speaker 1: someone who knows them well and intends to take their lives.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking at somebody close. I'm looking at somebody

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Speaker 1: if if these people were awake at the time they

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Speaker 1: were shot and looked in the eyes of the killer,

390
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Speaker 1: they knew exactly who it was. How helpful is it

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Speaker 1: for an investigator, though, to be aware of a motive

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Speaker 1: for a crime when it comes to helping solve that crime.

393
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: It directs you. Identifying a motive directs your investigation. You're right,

394
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Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be proven by prosecution in the court.

395
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: That's not a requirement under the law. But when there

396
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: is a motive, you separate out who probably did a

397
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: crime compared to who probably didn't. Greed is an underlying

398
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Speaker 1: cause nearly every time, whether it's a drug murder, an

399
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Speaker 1: armed robbery murder, a domestic murder because somebody. There was

400
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Speaker 1: a case in Gwinette not long ago where a man

401
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: was charged five years after his wife was discovered dead

402
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: just down the road. Some people choose to kill their

403
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: spouse rather than getting divorced because they're saving money. In

404
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: their mind, it's agreed thing. So money is involved in

405
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: nearly every murder case that you could mention. People get

406
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: greedy enough to cause death. The first thing that I

407
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: would want to do is open this case up and

408
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: do a complete methodical review of the file as it exists,

409
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: to see what was known. Then then I want to

410
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Speaker 1: interview those first people that went to the scene, the

411
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Speaker 1: first rescue people, the first shar's office people who arrived

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Speaker 1: on the scene. I want to get their feelings about

413
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Speaker 1: what they saw and what they thought. I want to

414
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Speaker 1: talk to the g b I agents who headed up

415
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Speaker 1: the initial case. I want to get their ideas on

416
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Speaker 1: it and where their mindset was headed in it, because

417
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Speaker 1: that's not always relayed on the paperwork, that's not always

418
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Speaker 1: in report form. When I look at the interviews, I

419
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Speaker 1: don't want to look at a type summary of an interview.

420
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: I want to listen to the recording. I want to

421
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Speaker 1: know every word that was said and what the context

422
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Speaker 1: of those words were. And then I want to look

423
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: at evidence that was collected in the case. Was their

424
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: sexual assault evidence collected during the post morning examinations? Was

425
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: there any latent print evidence lifted? What did they find,

426
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: what did they collect, and what do they still have.

427
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: Anything that's been tested in two thousand two by the

428
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: g b I certainly needs to be considered for a resubmission.

429
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Speaker 1: Because the DNA protocols have changed. There's a difference in

430
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: how latent princes can be run. It's all very different now.

431
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: Technologies come a long way. But as to motive, the

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00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: thing that concerns me is that Mr Wieman was the

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00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: county tax guy. Two thousand two was a boom year.

434
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: Maybe somebody was upset about their property appraisal not being

435
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: more or or something that he had to do with business,

436
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: although that's not likely. I think it's something that means

437
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: louis that. But what screams out to me is that

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00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: their twenty year old daughter is eight months pregnant and

439
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: she's at home with them, not with biological father. So

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00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: I don't know what that situation was, and I need

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00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: to find that out. It was likely someone close to

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00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: the wideman's who committed the murders, perhaps even a relative.

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00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: Another takeaway was that we really need to know who

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00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: the father was of the baby. And finally, most of

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00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: the time, the motive in murder cases is either greed

446
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: or money or both. During last d railroad stream, that's it.

447
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: A little bit further, for everything we've read and heard,

448
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: this house was not a place you'd happened upon. We

449
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: looked up the address on the GPS website and headed

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00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: down there to see for ourselves. This street next is

451
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: see this way turned nor railroad streets over there, this

452
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: is it. When we pulled up to the property the

453
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: side of the tragedy, we weren't sure we were even

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00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: in the right place. We crossed reference to the address

455
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: with what we had on the GPI website. We were there. Yeah,

456
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: that's locked. There once was a house here. It looks

457
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: like might be just someone's farm. Now that's Mason, a

458
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: producer on sworn. You could tell that's really dark out

459
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: here at night time. Oh yeah, there's no lights, no lights.

460
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: It all started to make sense the story we've been unraveling.

461
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: The road was not a busy thoroughfare during our visit.

462
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: It was the middle of the day and still only

463
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: one car past us as we walked outside. Mostly it

464
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: was very, very quiet, except for the sound of cicadas.

465
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: The land looked like it was being actively used as

466
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: a pecan orchard, and there was no longer any foundation

467
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: left standing where the Wideman home used to be. We

468
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: made not to ask when it was cleared and who

469
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: currently owned the property. Then we left Pleasant Hill Baptist Church.

470
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: On our way back from the property, Mason spotted a

471
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: graveyard from afar. We stopped by the church to see

472
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: if maybe there was a Wideman family plot, and there was.

473
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: Marge Turny second two. During our visit to Rebecca, we

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00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: knew we had to stop at the local newspaper, The

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00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: Wiregrass Farmer. We wanted to get the perspective of the

476
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: local media outlet, one that had covered the case multiple times,

477
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: right in the thick a pit. Next time on Sworn,

478
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: there are some people that swear they know who did it. Yeah,

479
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: ask him. They'll tell you an individual's name. Well, how

480
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: do you know this? He's just that kind of a person.

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00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: In the next episode of Sworn, we're going to take

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00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: a deeper look into the unsolved triple murders of the

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00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: Wideman family. We're going to talk to some locals. We're

484
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: gonna dig deeper, we're gonna sift through old leads, So

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00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: be sure to stick around for part two of the

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00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: Wideman Merkety