Speaker 1: I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovik the cover this week.
Speaker 1: Flipping sneakers has been a viable business proposition for decades,
Speaker 1: and in recent years a new generation of middlemen, particularly
Speaker 1: stock x, have become go to marketplaces where ultra rare
Speaker 1: grails can command five figure prices. Even bricks releases that
Speaker 1: don't initially sell as anticipated can turn into big money makers.
Speaker 1: It's all got its own language well. Giants such as
Speaker 1: Nike and Adidast help spur the booms, sometimes in partnership
Speaker 1: with boutique streetwear brands. One research group estimates that sneaker
Speaker 1: resales are now a two billion dollar market in North America.
Speaker 1: Loan Wow. And like so many of the things, the
Speaker 1: pandemic has presented a new opportunity as shoppers opt for
Speaker 1: e commerce over brick and mortar stores. Securing inventory can
Speaker 1: pose a challenge, though, and a stock up for his
Speaker 1: company West Coast Streetwear, one nineteen year old entrepreneur went
Speaker 1: so far as to embark on a twenty five day,
Speaker 1: ten thous miles shopping spree. Money It's got to be
Speaker 1: the shoes. Young resellers are ringing profits out of everything
Speaker 1: from the latest yeasies to outlet store leftovers and turning
Speaker 1: sneakers into a bona fide asset class by Joshua Hunt.
Speaker 1: Last July, Joe Hibert woke up early and drove to
Speaker 1: a small warehouse he'd leased in Eugene, Oregon, the track
Speaker 1: obsessed college town where Nike was born. He was expecting
Speaker 1: an important delivery, six hundred pairs of Yeezy Boost three
Speaker 1: fifties Iion sneakers, released by Adidas twelve days earlier. They'd
Speaker 1: sold out within hours and now commanded more than a
Speaker 1: hundred dollars above retail on the secondary market. Many sneaker
Speaker 1: heads would have felt lucky the snag a single pair
Speaker 1: of one of the world's most sought after styles. Adidas
Speaker 1: produces just forty tho pairs of each Easy Release, which
Speaker 1: are priced at two and twenty dollars retail and sold
Speaker 1: through its Yeasy Supply website using a digital lottery. When
Speaker 1: his shoes arrived, the nineteen year old, who's known to
Speaker 1: his customers as West Coast Joe, stacked the hundreds of
Speaker 1: boxes like poker chips on the sun drenched pavement outside
Speaker 1: the warehouse. It's easy to get a lot of this style,
Speaker 1: and they pretty much always sell, he said in one
Speaker 1: of a series of conversations we had last year about
Speaker 1: his business. What Hubert meant by easy was this. The
Speaker 1: day these easies were released, He'd awoken at three am,
Speaker 1: signed onto the messaging platform Discord, and rousted fifteen members
Speaker 1: of his cook group, the term sneaker resellers used to
Speaker 1: describe their allies in arbitrage. When the shoes went on
Speaker 1: sale an hour later, Hubert's team swarmed the easy Supply
Speaker 1: website using specialized computer programs such as Cybersoul, ganesh Bot,
Speaker 1: and Kodai, each prepped with Hubert's credit card information and
Speaker 1: capable of gaming a system meant to limit purchases to
Speaker 1: one pair of per customer. By six am, the shoes
Speaker 1: were sold out, and Hubert's botts had rung up one
Speaker 1: d and thirty two thousand dollars on his American Express.
Speaker 1: His company, West Coast Streetwear resold the shoes in almost
Speaker 1: as little time as it had taken to buy them,
Speaker 1: clearing twenty dollars in profit. Anything that's releasing that I
Speaker 1: know I can make a guaranteed buck on, I'm going
Speaker 1: to go full into, Hubert said, that's just my style.
Speaker 1: Flipping sneakers has been a viable business proposition for decades.
Speaker 1: The demand side emerged as far back as when Nike
Speaker 1: dropped the Air Jordan one, a culture shifting sneaker that
Speaker 1: sold faster than the company could manufacture it. The supply
Speaker 1: side followed soon after, when some retailers began selling the
Speaker 1: few pairs they could get for more than nikes suggested
Speaker 1: retail price. A year later, the company doubled down, limiting
Speaker 1: the initial release of the Air Jordan two to just
Speaker 1: thirty stores in nineteen cities and adding forty dollars to
Speaker 1: the price. The Air Jordan three, which marked the debut
Speaker 1: of Tinker Hatfield's iconic jumpman logo, was so popular that
Speaker 1: Nike has reissued at countless times without ever really satisfying demand.
Speaker 1: The advent of eBay in the mid nine nineties brought
Speaker 1: non retail sellers into the game, and the market only
Speaker 1: grew from there. eBay's annual sneaker trade reached three hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty eight million dollars in and analysts pegged the
Speaker 1: broader resale market at one billion dollars last July. Cowen
Speaker 1: estimated the latter figure had grown to two billion dollars
Speaker 1: in North America alone. The sneaker boom has created opportunities
Speaker 1: for a new generation of speculator. Hebert and other young
Speaker 1: resellers are the first to treat footwear as a bona
Speaker 1: fide asset class products is worthy of informed valuation and
Speaker 1: investment as any other commodity. The sneaker market for them
Speaker 1: is a lot like playing the stock market. In the
Speaker 1: hours after siphoning up shoes from retailers, they essentially sell
Speaker 1: short term futures based on street sentiment. By the time
Speaker 1: prices plateau, ultra rare shoes such as the Air Jordan
Speaker 1: one O g D or a collaboration between Nike and
Speaker 1: the Parisian Fashion House that was limited to pairs have
Speaker 1: become grail's worth ten thousand dollars or more, while more
Speaker 1: attainable stock has been bundled into trenches and sold on
Speaker 1: to other resellers at a bulk discount. Like their new
Speaker 1: fellow travelers, the day traders have Reddit, sneaker resellers have
Speaker 1: used community and technology to exploit a system that wasn't
Speaker 1: quite ready for them. But unlike the game stop crowd,
Speaker 1: they aren't really making a point along the way, they're
Speaker 1: just making a profit. For these traders, the pandemic offered
Speaker 1: yet another opportunity. Cowen's report pointed out that some of
Speaker 1: the fastest growth in the secondary market came in the
Speaker 1: months after the COVID nineteen crisis began, driven in part
Speaker 1: by steep discounts from shoe companies that faced double digit
Speaker 1: sales declines. Foot Locker was panicking and a lot of
Speaker 1: smaller boutiques were panicking, doing like fifty percent off sales,
Speaker 1: Hebert said, just trying to dump all that stuff. Shoppers
Speaker 1: were of waiting stores and flocking instead to et commerce
Speaker 1: platforms such as stock x, where young entrepreneurs like him,
Speaker 1: we're offering dead stock. The term once used by retailers
Speaker 1: to describe unsold discontinued items gathering dust on store shelves,
Speaker 1: has been adopted by resellers, who emphasized that the styles
Speaker 1: are no longer made and the items are still in
Speaker 1: their original packaging. Jesse Einhorn, senior economist at stock x,
Speaker 1: says that May and June were the platform's two biggest
Speaker 1: months since it's February launch. It likely got a bump
Speaker 1: to he notes from ESPN and Netflix is airing starting
Speaker 1: in mid April of The Last Dance, a ten part
Speaker 1: chronicle of Michael Jordan's final season with the Chicago Bulls,
Speaker 1: which drew many older buyers into the market for the
Speaker 1: first time. That was also a breakout time for West
Speaker 1: Coast streetwear. I remember the night the stimulus checks hit,
Speaker 1: my sales tripled, Hubert said in May, we did six
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. This would have vault at him into
Speaker 1: the upper echelons of sneaker resellers at stock x, according
Speaker 1: to a company spokesperson, who says those are the numbers
Speaker 1: of a top tier power seller. An opportunity was clearly
Speaker 1: presenting itself. The teenager had a problem. Though supply chain
Speaker 1: issues were starting to translate into fewer shipments to wholesalers.
Speaker 1: The shoes he needed were still out there in stores
Speaker 1: their prices slashed, but if he wanted to buy the dip,
Speaker 1: he'd have to get creative. Hubert's reselling career started in
Speaker 1: high school when he noticed that some Supreme T shirts
Speaker 1: he owned were going online for two or three times
Speaker 1: what he'd paid. The margin traced at least partly to
Speaker 1: the launch of stock x, where limited edition releases from Supreme, Off,
Speaker 1: White Palace and other streetwear brands were finding new life.
Speaker 1: The resale site was giving Hebert's generation its own eBay,
Speaker 1: a stock market of things where transactions were public and
Speaker 1: items could be valued accordingly if you throw out everything else.
Speaker 1: Stock x is a price guide, says co founder Josh Luber.
Speaker 1: It's a price guide that moves in real time, looking
Speaker 1: at supply and demand to understand the value of any
Speaker 1: particular shoe. When Hibert began selling shoes there in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: stock x had gone from processing hundreds of transactions per
Speaker 1: day to tens of thousands. Demand was surging for dead
Speaker 1: stock sneakers, in part due to the rising popularity of
Speaker 1: the streetwear brands, which supplemented a booming trade in T
Speaker 1: shirts and hoodies with limited edition shoe collaborations with traditional
Speaker 1: footwear makers, but it was also thanks to an industry
Speaker 1: shifting move by Nike. Its consumer direct offense announced that
Speaker 1: year was focused on driving sales away from brick and
Speaker 1: mortar partners such as foot Locker and toward its own stores,
Speaker 1: mobile apps, and websites. By the end of the fiscal
Speaker 1: year ended May thirty, first twenty nineteen, it was clear
Speaker 1: the move was paying off. Digital sales were up more
Speaker 1: than a third, and direct to consumer sales and climbed
Speaker 1: to eleven point eight billion dollars, almost double what they'd
Speaker 1: been four years before. This shift has lately helped insulate
Speaker 1: Nike from the effects of pandemic related store closures, says
Speaker 1: spokesperson Sandra carry On John. The pandemic has been a
Speaker 1: sort of stress test that proves our strategy is working,
Speaker 1: she says. The move toward online sales was a boon
Speaker 1: for resellers like Hebert, who could use bots to target
Speaker 1: the most sought after sneakers and acquire them in far
Speaker 1: greater quantities than customers could. In the days of lining
Speaker 1: up outside stores. He and his peers operated instead in
Speaker 1: digital spaces, such as Nike's Sneakers app, which the company
Speaker 1: made the first place and sometimes the only place, people
Speaker 1: could get certain limited edition shoes. The app effectively gamified
Speaker 1: Nike's engineered scarcity model, making the experience of buying shoes
Speaker 1: like spinning a digital roulette wheel. It also turned its
Speaker 1: most avid customers into digital advertisers for the brand. After
Speaker 1: a big drop, Winners and losers of the app lottery
Speaker 1: for the latest Jordan or Nike sp Dunk reissue, would
Speaker 1: celebrate or complain on social media, fueling the hype cycle.
Speaker 1: The potential to get rich quickly in an informal setting
Speaker 1: with little oversight drew a new breed of extremely online
Speaker 1: gen z trader. Most were white men, according to Adena Jones,
Speaker 1: chief executive officer and one of two black co founders
Speaker 1: of Another Lane, which launched its own digital market place
Speaker 1: for kicks last April. Jones and her husband Chad, raised
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty thousand dollars to start their business
Speaker 1: by selling off shoes from their own collection. Part of
Speaker 1: the reason, she says, was to have a voice in
Speaker 1: this culture that we started. She'd seen sneaker reselling become
Speaker 1: highly transactional, like buying wheat or oil, in contrast with
Speaker 1: the approach of her husband, who has been to the
Speaker 1: weddings of people. He sold sneakers to Chad marvels and
Speaker 1: how quickly things changed. For thirty years, I was boots
Speaker 1: on the ground, camping out in front of shoe stores.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, this middleman emerged. The ultimate
Speaker 1: middleman was stock x, which came about in part as
Speaker 1: a stabilizing force. In fourteen, when Luber was still an
Speaker 1: IBM consultant with a sneaker blog, he told The Financial
Speaker 1: Times that the secondary market for sneakers was more similar
Speaker 1: to the illegal drug trade than a stock exchange. Two
Speaker 1: years later, he launched stock x with an eye to
Speaker 1: changing that. He succeeded well enough that Einhorn, the Senior Economist,
Speaker 1: created a hypothetical index fund of five hundred sneakers that
Speaker 1: he found outperformed the S and P five hundred by
Speaker 1: a few percentage points. The index of the top five
Speaker 1: hundred increased about thirty percent since twenty eighteen, and about
Speaker 1: seventy five percent of the sneakers in that portfolio gained
Speaker 1: resell value. He says, as with most assets, some vetting
Speaker 1: is required. Seller's ship items to a stock x processing center,
Speaker 1: where they're authenticated before being shipped on to the buyer.
Speaker 1: Items are returned to the cellar if they're damaged or used,
Speaker 1: or have missing or substandard packaging. A rigorous inspection helps
Speaker 1: weed out counterfeits. Other potential providence issues aren't accounted for.
Speaker 1: Stock x doesn't track how sneakers end up on its platform.
Speaker 1: For example, Hubert's biggest score as a young shoe speculator
Speaker 1: came in January twenty twenty. He'd just dropped out of
Speaker 1: the University of Oregon midway through his second term and
Speaker 1: moved back to Portland. There, he said, he tracked down
Speaker 1: a man he'd heard about who'd stumbled across an exceptional
Speaker 1: find in an abandoned storage unit, four pairs of Nike Mags,
Speaker 1: the futuristic self lacing shoes worn by Michael J. Fox
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nines Back to the Future Part two.
Speaker 1: Hubert described finding the man and paying twenty two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars for the collection, then flipping it for forty two
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. The proceeds went toward a play for a
Speaker 1: bigger and potentially more lucrative slice of the market. Bricks,
Speaker 1: these shoes, whose nickname evokes bow, a badly missed shot
Speaker 1: in basketball, and the way they cling as if weighed
Speaker 1: down to store shelves, tend to be less loved than Mag's,
Speaker 1: but they're much easier to get hold of In today's
Speaker 1: sixty billion dollar global sneaker market. Some releases inevitably fail
Speaker 1: to sell as projected, whether the cause is over manufacturing,
Speaker 1: under promotion or a failure to anticipate trends, The result
Speaker 1: tends to be the same a markdown. When that happens,
Speaker 1: resellers have their bots snap them up in bulk, often
Speaker 1: before ordinary consumers notice their on sale. In many cases,
Speaker 1: they'll use discount codes bought via social media, earning an
Speaker 1: additional ten off orders worth tens or even hundreds of
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars on the secondary market. On the secondary market,
Speaker 1: the shoes can reliably earn from ten to more than
Speaker 1: the sale price, leading some bricks paradoxically to end up
Speaker 1: reselling for their full retail price or more. I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example. Hebert told me. The Night Vapor Max
Speaker 1: is considered a brick shoe because it's not a hyped
Speaker 1: Jordan that sells for fifty or a hundred bucks over retail.
Speaker 1: It usually gets discounted, but someone somewhere always seems to
Speaker 1: want a pair, he said, And since resellers don't need
Speaker 1: to worry about clearing out seasonal stock or meeting quarterly
Speaker 1: sales targets, they can sell the shoe whenever it's profitable
Speaker 1: to do so. Before the pandemic era sneaker surge Hubert
Speaker 1: was selling enough bricks to clear two hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: in revenue most months. They're a volume business, though, so
Speaker 1: he'd had to start renting the warehouse in Eugene, which
Speaker 1: is big enough to accommodate two fire engines. The space
Speaker 1: became both a hangout spot and the setting for an
Speaker 1: endless well of Instagram posts designed to make sneakerheads drool. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Hubert realized that his growing Instagram following included hundreds of
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial teens hoping to emulate his success, which led him
Speaker 1: to a new revenue stream. For two and fifty dollars
Speaker 1: per month, they could subscribe to a discord group where
Speaker 1: st Bricks, where he shared information on upcoming online releases,
Speaker 1: such as what sneakers would be discounted, when and where
Speaker 1: the sale would begin, and how many of the retailer
Speaker 1: would have. As of late, Hubert counted about four hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty subscribers. One of the first to sign up
Speaker 1: was a seventeen year old Californian who told me West
Speaker 1: Bricks had made him more than six figures. He described
Speaker 1: his primary market as middlemen who would resell the shoes
Speaker 1: in China, where customers offered top dollar to avoid buying counterfeits,
Speaker 1: and who would sometimes pay him in rubber banded stacks
Speaker 1: of cash that he'd later flaunt on Instagram. Hubert's competitors
Speaker 1: have access to the same bot software and stock x
Speaker 1: born real time market research as he does. What they
Speaker 1: don't have, according to some of his subscribers, is consistent,
Speaker 1: sound analysis of what shoes to buy, how to get them,
Speaker 1: and crucially, how long resellers might expect a man to persist.
Speaker 1: Hubert declined to talk about his sources of information, but
Speaker 1: he did say he was lucky to have and up
Speaker 1: in Portland. We're both Nike and Adidas based their US operations.
Speaker 1: If you know the right people here, this is the
Speaker 1: city to sell shoes, he said. The right people can
Speaker 1: give you access to stuff that like a normal person
Speaker 1: would not have access to. When the COVID boom got
Speaker 1: under way last year, Hubert found himself confronting the unexpected
Speaker 1: problem of having more customers than ever but no way
Speaker 1: of getting his hands on more kicks. For inspiration, he
Speaker 1: looked to Nike co founder Phil Knight, who got his
Speaker 1: start selling another company's shoes out of the trunk of
Speaker 1: his car. Like night, Hubert would hit the road. The
Speaker 1: stock he needed was out there, he knew, languishing in
Speaker 1: back rooms at the retail outlets. Fearful American shoppers were avoiding,
Speaker 1: so he grabbed a pal bought a seventeen foot ford
Speaker 1: E three fifty box truck at auction, and embarked on
Speaker 1: a twenty five day, ten thousand mile brick hunt. Hubert's
Speaker 1: traveling companion was justin Taliaferro, a friend from high school.
Speaker 1: The trip seemed like exactly what we needed to get
Speaker 1: out of the house during quarantine, Talia Farrow said when
Speaker 1: I spoke with him months later. With a map of
Speaker 1: Nike outlets to guide them, the nineteen year olds headed
Speaker 1: east from Portland, traveling through Idaho, Utah, and Colorado, focusing
Speaker 1: on hotspots such as Salt Lake City and Denver, where
Speaker 1: Nike factory stores are more densely packed than in other
Speaker 1: metropolitan areas. We know that Nikes have the most variety
Speaker 1: in styles and the best discounts on their more select shoes,
Speaker 1: Talia Farrow said. Along the way, they dropped in on
Speaker 1: every foot locker, DTLR Villa and Champ Sports outlet they passed,
Speaker 1: stopping occasionally at Adida's outlets as well. Some of the
Speaker 1: best scores, according to Hebert, came from mom and pop stores,
Speaker 1: which didn't have the restrictive purchase limits that outlet stores
Speaker 1: for larger brands sometimes place on certain shoes. There's kind
Speaker 1: of a stigma against resellers, he said. They even went
Speaker 1: at US harder now because these Nike outlets weren't getting
Speaker 1: any new inventory. The mom and ops were more than
Speaker 1: happy to make dozens of sales at a time. For
Speaker 1: the first two weeks, the pair saved money by stopping
Speaker 1: overnight at truck stops and Walmart parking lots, crashing in
Speaker 1: their vehicles cargo box on two thin sleeping pads and
Speaker 1: some pillows and blankets. When they reached Louisiana, the bugs
Speaker 1: and heat forced them to seek out cheap motels. By
Speaker 1: the time they escaped the US humidity belt, they barely
Speaker 1: had enough room in the truck for shoes, let alone
Speaker 1: sleeping pads. Back home in Portland, they lifted the steel
Speaker 1: door and a wall of orange Nike boxes spilled onto
Speaker 1: the pavement. Hubert had spent more than two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars on about two thousand pairs of shoes, which he
Speaker 1: hoped would return a profit of around fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: I'm not dealing with double my money margins usually, he
Speaker 1: told me. It's just a pretty calm ten to twenty
Speaker 1: and then moving product as fast as I can after
Speaker 1: the trip. As supply chains grew less strained, Hubert started
Speaker 1: diversifying his approach, wholesaling some of his summer brick stock
Speaker 1: along with some Jordans and Yeasys, two smaller retailers. He
Speaker 1: said he thought the West Coast streetwear brand might be
Speaker 1: getting big enough to launch its own direct to consumer offensive,
Speaker 1: starting with its own web store. Bypassing stock x would
Speaker 1: mean fewer fees and fewer returns. If I ship them
Speaker 1: a shoe and the box has a damaged corner or something,
Speaker 1: they'll go ahead and charge me fiftent of the sale,
Speaker 1: and then they'll charge me fourteen dollars to ship it back,
Speaker 1: which is like a double whammy, Hebert said. When I'm
Speaker 1: not working on a high margin, it really hurts me.
Speaker 1: But they don't do it for every sale, which is
Speaker 1: kind of weird. I still don't know the formula, and
Speaker 1: I've been asking for it for a while. A spokesperson
Speaker 1: for stock X says that if it receives a damaged
Speaker 1: or defective product, it charges only the shipping fee in
Speaker 1: certain cases, typically when a product is determined to be inauthentic,
Speaker 1: she adds, we do then charge the seller a minimum
Speaker 1: of fifteen dollars or up to fifteen percent of the
Speaker 1: transaction amount. He was also taking steps to go beyond
Speaker 1: selling shoes, which I'd learned quite by accident ran in
Speaker 1: his blood. At one point in late June after his trip,
Speaker 1: he'd phoned me and the number was identified as belonging
Speaker 1: to Ann Hubert. I looked the name up and discovered
Speaker 1: there was an Ann Hubert who had worked at Nike
Speaker 1: for twenty five years and had recently been made its
Speaker 1: vice president and general manager for North America. The press
Speaker 1: release announcing her promotion noted that she would be instrumental
Speaker 1: in accelerating our consumer direct offense, the Nike initiative that
Speaker 1: had helped fuel the sneaker resale boom. Hubert later sent
Speaker 1: me a statement for an American Express corporate card for
Speaker 1: w c S LLLC to demonstrate West Coast streetwears revenue,
Speaker 1: and it was in Anne's name. When I asked Hubert
Speaker 1: about the connection later that year. He acknowledged that Anne
Speaker 1: was his mother and said that while she had inspired
Speaker 1: him as a business person, she was so high up
Speaker 1: at Nike as to be removed from what he does,
Speaker 1: and that he'd never received inside information such as discount
Speaker 1: codes from her. He insisted, though, that she not be
Speaker 1: mentioned in the article and cut off contact not long
Speaker 1: after our conversation, and Hebert didn't reply to emailed questions.
Speaker 1: Carry On, John, the Nike spokesperson, says Anne disclosed relevant
Speaker 1: information about w C s l C to Nike in
Speaker 1: there was no violation of company policy, privileged information, or
Speaker 1: conflicts of interest, Nor is there any commercial affiliation between
Speaker 1: w C s l C and Nike, including the direct
Speaker 1: buying or selling of Nike products. She writes. Nike's marketing
Speaker 1: and corporate culture are strong enough in Portland that most
Speaker 1: anyone there can steep in it. The children of company executives,
Speaker 1: no doubt, even more so. But whatever the advantages to
Speaker 1: growing up with a silver swoosh in one's mouth, Hubert's
Speaker 1: hustle couldn't be denied. Not to mention, as he pointed
Speaker 1: out during our last phone call, that he'd started out
Speaker 1: selling Supreme T shirts. He also moved plenty of Adidas stock.
Speaker 1: In the fall, He'd struck out for even less familiar terrain.
Speaker 1: When Sony launched its PlayStation five console in November, Hebrew
Speaker 1: since a looming shortage of stock. We bought at Walmart
Speaker 1: and Target pretty hard, he told me. I ended up
Speaker 1: with twenty four of them and made between three hundred
Speaker 1: dollars and five dollars on each one. There had been
Speaker 1: growing pains outside the family business, though his bots had
Speaker 1: initially gobbled up hundreds of PS five systems, but because
Speaker 1: he was working in unfamiliar territory, he'd made mistakes that
Speaker 1: resulted in most of his orders getting canceled, leaving him
Speaker 1: with just the two dozen consoles. I wish I had
Speaker 1: prepared more, he said. And that's this week's cover story.
Speaker 1: Find more in the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine.
Speaker 1: It's on newsstands, online at Bloomberg dot com and on
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Speaker 1: lot more. I'm Tim s down Vic, but I'm Carol Masser.
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