WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: John Dillinger

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Saturday, everybody. Not too long ago on the show,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about a series of six prison breaks, and

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<v Speaker 1>one of the more famous prison breaks that we did

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<v Speaker 1>not get into on the show was John Dillinger's four

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<v Speaker 1>escape using a fake gun that he had made, and

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<v Speaker 1>we didn't because there's already a podcast on Dillinger by

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<v Speaker 1>previous host Sarah and Bablina that came out on December jess.

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<v Speaker 1>As a very general guideline, it is not really necessary

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<v Speaker 1>to send in corrections for pronunciations in eleven year old

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<v Speaker 1>podcast episodes, especially when they are hosted by people who

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<v Speaker 1>do not work here anymore. But just in case, we do,

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<v Speaker 1>as totally random examples, know how to say the words

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<v Speaker 1>mischievous and Lima, Ohio, Welcome to Stuff you missed in

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<v Speaker 1>History Class, A production of I Heart Radio, Hello, and

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the podcast I'm to Blieve in chark Reboarding

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Fair Doing And Earlier this year, we talked

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<v Speaker 1>a lot about Ned Kelly and some other famous bush Rangers,

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<v Speaker 1>who were essentially Australian outlaws, viewed as folk heroes by

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<v Speaker 1>many of their contemporaries. A couple of times we compared

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<v Speaker 1>that bush ranger phenomenon to the American wild West and

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<v Speaker 1>Jesse James. But the United States has seen some more

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<v Speaker 1>recent examples of these outlaw hero hybrids in the form

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<v Speaker 1>of the Depression era bank robber gangster. Why would the public,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least a portion of it, root for a

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<v Speaker 1>criminal with a scary Tommy gun. That's what we asked ourselves,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's similar to the Bushranger situation, is what we found.

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<v Speaker 1>It had less to do with people liking the bank

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<v Speaker 1>robbers than it did with their disliking the banks. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>what that meant was that in the twenties banks speculated

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<v Speaker 1>on stocks and then went bust and left people who

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<v Speaker 1>deposited money high and dry. And then in the thirties

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<v Speaker 1>banks foreclosed on farmers who had been hit hard by drought,

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<v Speaker 1>for seeing thousands of people to leave their land. So

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<v Speaker 1>banks were the enemy. Yeah, and some of the criminals,

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<v Speaker 1>like the one that we're going to focus on in

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, John Dillinger, we're really kind of likable guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger was known for being charismatic. He's been called Gentleman

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<v Speaker 1>John or the Gentleman Bandit, and even though his infamous

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<v Speaker 1>crime spree only lasted for one year, he was arguably

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest celebrity criminal of his day. He was the

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<v Speaker 1>first criminal to be named Public Enemy Number one by

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI, and Dillinger's demise also marked the beginning of

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the nineteen thirties gangster era and the

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<v Speaker 1>rise of the FBI. In fact, when former and the

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<v Speaker 1>first FBI director jed Gar Hoover, who's been in the

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<v Speaker 1>spotlight recently because of the movie, when he was asked

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<v Speaker 1>as an old man with his greatest thrill or the

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<v Speaker 1>high point in his career was, he said, it was

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<v Speaker 1>the night they got Dillinger. So we're going to take

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<v Speaker 1>a look at that night and some of the mysteries

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<v Speaker 1>and the myths surrounding it. But of course we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk a little bit about Jillinger's early days first

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<v Speaker 1>and how he became a star of the crime world

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<v Speaker 1>in the first place. So John Herbert Dillinger was born

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<v Speaker 1>June nineteen o three in a middle class neighborhood in

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<v Speaker 1>Indianapolis called Oak Hill. So most sources say he was

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<v Speaker 1>trouble from a pretty early age. Not mean spirited, not

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<v Speaker 1>a bully necessarily, but mischievous. According to an article by

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Carlson in American history. Dillinger's life of crime really

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<v Speaker 1>started in grade school when he formed a gang called

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<v Speaker 1>the Dirty Dozen. They apparently stole watermelon. Some sources say

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<v Speaker 1>that they met have stolen coal um, but instability from

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<v Speaker 1>family life probably didn't help things. Dillinger's mother, Mary Ellen,

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<v Speaker 1>died when he was only about three or four years old,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was cared for mostly by his sister Audrey.

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<v Speaker 1>His father, John Wilson, who was a grosser, remarried when

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger was about ten years old, but Dillinger wasn't very

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<v Speaker 1>fond of his stepmother, at least at first. Sod Linger

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<v Speaker 1>quit school when he was about sixteen and he went

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<v Speaker 1>to work in machine shops. He was a decent worker,

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<v Speaker 1>but he wasn't that into his work, so he started

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<v Speaker 1>staying out late like a lot, and in nineteen twenty

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<v Speaker 1>his father moved the family from the city to a

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<v Speaker 1>farm in Mooresville, Indiana, presumably in part because he thought

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger was on the road to getting into serious trouble.

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<v Speaker 1>But moving to the farm really didn't help with that

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<v Speaker 1>problem very much. Dillinger ran wild, and he got into

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<v Speaker 1>trouble or what or was about to get into trouble,

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<v Speaker 1>I should stay for stealing a car. So at age nineteen,

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<v Speaker 1>he joined the Navy, but after only five months he

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<v Speaker 1>went a wall when his ship was docked in Boston,

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<v Speaker 1>and later he was dishonorably discharged, so he came home

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<v Speaker 1>to Morrisville for a little while. He got married to

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen year old Beryl Hovious in April of nineteen twenty four,

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<v Speaker 1>and also for a brief time he showed promise as

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<v Speaker 1>a baseball player for a team in Martinsville, Indiana, but

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't long before Dillinger started to get into trouble again.

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<v Speaker 1>That same year, in four he and an older friend

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<v Speaker 1>named Ed Singleton assaulted and robbed a local grocer, and

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<v Speaker 1>they really botched the crime. They messed up completely, and

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<v Speaker 1>they got caught and Singleton pled not guilty and got

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<v Speaker 1>off with a light sentence. But Dillinger took some really

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<v Speaker 1>bad advice from his father, who convinced him not to

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<v Speaker 1>get a lawyer and to plead guilty. And uh, they

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<v Speaker 1>were just sort of assuming that maybe, since Dillinger had

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<v Speaker 1>no prior criminal record, maybe the court would show mercy

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<v Speaker 1>let him off easy. But it didn't go down that way,

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger was sentenced to ten to twenty years in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>So what a way to start life. Yeah, pretty serious sentence,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, though he didn't just take it lying down

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<v Speaker 1>and accept his fate at first. Dillinger attempted to escape

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<v Speaker 1>from prison a few times, acted up, gotten all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of trouble. He seemed to become more and more bitter

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<v Speaker 1>about a situation as time went on, especially when he

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<v Speaker 1>was denied parole and when his wife divorced him in

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<v Speaker 1>while he was still in there. After a while, though,

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger settled down, or at least he appeared to. He

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<v Speaker 1>worked in the prison shirt factory and started making friends

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<v Speaker 1>with some of the older inmates like Harry Pierpont, who

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<v Speaker 1>could school him in an advanced criminal tactics like the

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<v Speaker 1>finer points of robbing banks, for instance. Then in May

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<v Speaker 1>of nineteen thirty three, after nearly nine years in prison,

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger's good prisoner facade paid off and he was paroled

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<v Speaker 1>just a few weeks later. On June tenth, nineteen thirty three,

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<v Speaker 1>he robbed his first bank in Ohio, and he made

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<v Speaker 1>off with somewhere in the neighborhood of ten thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 1>on that first job, and he also started recruiting a

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<v Speaker 1>few friends and pulled off several more robberies that summer.

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<v Speaker 1>But it wasn't long before he was back behind bars again.

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<v Speaker 1>Really just at the end of the summer, he was

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<v Speaker 1>arrested in Dayton, Ohio and September twenty second, eighteen thirty three,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he was thrown into the county jail and Lima,

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<v Speaker 1>Ohio um According to the FBI's website, when Lima police

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<v Speaker 1>were frisking Dillinger, they found a dot commit which seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to be a plan for a prison break, but Dillinger

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<v Speaker 1>said he didn't know anything about that. But just a

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<v Speaker 1>few days later, eight to ten of Dillinger's prisoner buddies

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<v Speaker 1>escaped using the exact plan the police had found. So

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<v Speaker 1>turned out that Dillinger had arranged for guns to be

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<v Speaker 1>smuggled into the prison to aid the escape, so presumably

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<v Speaker 1>this had been the plan all along. Dillinger would make parole,

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<v Speaker 1>get out of jail, pull off some jobs to get money,

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<v Speaker 1>um to get guns, get m oh whatever, and then

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<v Speaker 1>return to prison to get his friends out. And his

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<v Speaker 1>friends didn't forget the favor either, just a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>weeks later, several of the escapees showed up at the

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<v Speaker 1>jail again where Dillinger was being held, and at first

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<v Speaker 1>they pretended to be there to return Dillinger to the

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<v Speaker 1>Indiana State Prison, since he had of course violated parole.

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<v Speaker 1>But as soon as Sheriff Jess Sarber asked to see

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<v Speaker 1>some sort of I D they shot and killed him,

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<v Speaker 1>took his keys, and freed Dillinger. So a wild double

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<v Speaker 1>part escape here and the band of outlaws became known

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<v Speaker 1>as the Dillinger Gang or the Terror Gang. And during

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<v Speaker 1>the last few months of ninety three, Dillinger and friends

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<v Speaker 1>raided police arsenals for guns and AMMO and bulletproof vests,

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<v Speaker 1>and they robbed about a dozen banks across the Midwest

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<v Speaker 1>and picked up some serious cash in the process. In October,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, they robbed a bank in Greencastle and made

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<v Speaker 1>off with about seventy five thousand dollars. They eventually made

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of thousands of dollars doing this, and there was

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<v Speaker 1>no real leader to the gang, but Dillinger became kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the star of these robberies. He was well dressed,

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<v Speaker 1>he was good looking, and he was athletic. He had

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<v Speaker 1>this signature move he would do where he would leap

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<v Speaker 1>over the bank counter to intimidate employees and get access

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<v Speaker 1>to the miller's cages and also impressed by standards at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time. Well, he'd also impressed them by telling

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<v Speaker 1>people who were there to deposit their cash that they

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<v Speaker 1>could keep their personal money. He was only interested in

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<v Speaker 1>getting the bank's money. So there was that Robin Hood

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing going on that keeps on popping up

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of these outlaw episodes we talked about.

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<v Speaker 1>But the Dillinger gang did hurt people too. They killed

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<v Speaker 1>about fifteen people and wounded several others during their crime spree.

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger was even wanted for murder after a policeman was

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<v Speaker 1>killed during robbery at a bank in East Chicago, Indiana,

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<v Speaker 1>in January nineteen thirty four. But by this time the

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<v Speaker 1>gang was making front page news, I mean, obviously for

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<v Speaker 1>for heists like this, and local law enforcement in the

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<v Speaker 1>Midwest wanted the FBI, which was then called the Bureau

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<v Speaker 1>of Investigation or Division of Investigation, to get involved give

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<v Speaker 1>them a little help with all of this. But by

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<v Speaker 1>the letter of the law at the time, Dillinger and

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<v Speaker 1>his friends hadn't admitted any federal crimes yet, so therefore

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<v Speaker 1>the future FBI couldn't couldn't lay a hand on him,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm not officially at least that winter, Dillinger took

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<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend, Evelyn Frischette, and the rest of the gang

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<v Speaker 1>to Florida on vacation in Daytona Beach for a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of weeks, and then after that the whole gang headed

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<v Speaker 1>west to Tucson, Arizona, and that's where they were discovered, recognized,

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<v Speaker 1>and arrested by police after a fire broke out in

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<v Speaker 1>one of the hotels a couple of them were staying

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<v Speaker 1>in under assumed names. They were all wanted all over

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<v Speaker 1>the Midwest at this point, so states were actually competing

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<v Speaker 1>over who would get them. Most of the gang ended

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<v Speaker 1>up going to Ohio, but the East Chicago police got

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger and threw him in Crown Point, Indiana Jail, which

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<v Speaker 1>was supposedly escape proof. At this time. There was a

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<v Speaker 1>media frenzy surrounding Dillinger when he was there. The warden

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<v Speaker 1>would let reporters interview him, and Dillinger apparently joked with

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<v Speaker 1>them and really just charmed them all. I mean, some

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<v Speaker 1>of them thought, Hey, this is a shame that this

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<v Speaker 1>guy is gonna end up getting executed because he murdered somebody,

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<v Speaker 1>because he really is kind of likable. But less than

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<v Speaker 1>two months later, Dillinger put the jail security to the test.

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<v Speaker 1>On March third, thirty four, Dillinger escaped by waving a

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<v Speaker 1>pistol to force guards to let him out of his cell.

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<v Speaker 1>He then captured Crown Points, Warden and guards and locked

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<v Speaker 1>them in a cell and fled. According to the popular

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<v Speaker 1>version of this story, the gun Dillinger used in this

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<v Speaker 1>instance was one that he'd carved out of wood and

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<v Speaker 1>darkened with boot black, so basically shoe polish. And some people,

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<v Speaker 1>of course think that this is totally focus and that

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<v Speaker 1>he actually had a real gun. But it's one of

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<v Speaker 1>those one of the many myths out there about Dillinger

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<v Speaker 1>that just you want to believe it because it's such

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<v Speaker 1>a good story. Encyclopedia Britannica says that he was singing

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<v Speaker 1>as he left, quote I'm heading for the last round up.

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<v Speaker 1>And in Carlson's article, he says that Dillinger later wrote

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<v Speaker 1>about the incident in a letter to his sister and said,

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<v Speaker 1>quote you should have seen their faces ha ha ha,

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<v Speaker 1>with all exclamation points there too. So right after this

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<v Speaker 1>escape is when Dillinger made the mistake that would eventually

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<v Speaker 1>lead to his downfall. As part of his escape from jail,

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<v Speaker 1>he stole a sheriff's car and crossed the Indiana Illinois

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<v Speaker 1>state line, which violated the National Motor Vehicle Theft Act.

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<v Speaker 1>So finally there was a federal offense in jade, Hoover

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<v Speaker 1>and the Bureau of Investigation could at last go after

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<v Speaker 1>Dillinger full force. Dillinger had, of course, basically made a

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<v Speaker 1>full out of law enforcement officials with this latest escape

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<v Speaker 1>and the possible boot blackened gun, and catching him would

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<v Speaker 1>be a huge accomplishment and a much needed win at

0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:46.040
<v Speaker 1>this point for Hoover's fledgling bureau. So Hoover put his

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Chicago Bureau chief, Melvin Purvis, in charge of finding the outlaw,

0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 1>but they didn't have any luck at first. All of

0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 1>their initial attempts to capture him through raids failed. In

0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.160
<v Speaker 1>the meantime, though, Dillinger was busy, he put together a

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.360
<v Speaker 1>new gang since all of his other friends were in

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:04.959
<v Speaker 1>jail already, and the new members of the Dillinger gang

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 1>included the Likes of baby Face Nelson, who was generally

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.679
<v Speaker 1>considered an unbalanced, homicidal psychopath. He'd denis stint with al

0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Capone and people were, I mean, this guy was a

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.079
<v Speaker 1>guy to be feared, but he wasn't necessarily the type

0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 1>of person that Dillinger had worked with in the past.

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.359
<v Speaker 1>But they set off together on another series of robberies.

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 1>Purvis and as guys had been searching for Dillinger all

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.839
<v Speaker 1>over the place, but they kept not finding him or

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of just missing him, and they'd find out that

0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.040
<v Speaker 1>he was somewhere, but he'd escaped before they could catch him. Then,

0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.800
<v Speaker 1>in April of four, the Bureau got a tip that

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 1>the gang was hiding out at the Little Bohemia Lodge

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.520
<v Speaker 1>north of Rhinelander, Wisconsin, while Dillinger recovered from a wound

0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.960
<v Speaker 1>he'd gotten on their last job. So Purvis and Hugh Clegg,

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.319
<v Speaker 1>the assistant director of the Bureau at the time, led

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.120
<v Speaker 1>a small army of agents and approached the lodge at night,

0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 1>trying to ambush the gang. But as they approached, the

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 1>owner's watchdogs began to bark, and around this same time,

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 1>three men were leaving the building and they got into

0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 1>a car, apparently Purvis tried to yell at the car,

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.680
<v Speaker 1>we're government agents, but the men didn't hear him and

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.280
<v Speaker 1>started the car and they started to pull away, and

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 1>as the car pulled away, agents opened fire. They ended

0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 1>up wounding two of the men and killing one of them,

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.680
<v Speaker 1>and they were all non gangster civilians, So big embarrassment there.

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 1>And after that Purviose and his men opened fire on

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 1>the lodge, but as soon as Dillinger and his men

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 1>heard the shooting, they managed to escape. They jumped out

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 1>windows onto the first floor roof and got away. But meanwhile,

0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 1>in an encounter with baby Face Nelson at a neighboring resort,

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.400
<v Speaker 1>one Bureau agent was wounded and another one killed, and

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 1>their government vehicle was stolen too. So all of this,

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, shooting innocent men, um having one of their

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 1>own agents killed by baby Face, losing dillenjer yet again

0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.040
<v Speaker 1>was a huge embarrassment for Purvis and Hoover, and newspapers

0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.480
<v Speaker 1>were calling them to be fire heard and some members

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 1>of the Roosevelt administration we're thinking that they might need

0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.080
<v Speaker 1>to get a new FBI director. But after the Wisconsin incident,

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Dillinger and his gang went on to rob another bank

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 1>in Ohio, and whoever went ahead and dubbed the outlaw

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 1>public Enemy number one and put up a pretty significant

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 1>cash reward of ten thousand dollars for any information about

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 1>his whereabouts. He was he I think he knew at

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 1>this point his job was kind of riding on on

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 1>catching him. Yes, he did, and there's speculation that this

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.800
<v Speaker 1>may have made Dillinger a little bit more cautious finally,

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 1>maybe to the extreme. Even he's rumored to have undergone

0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.760
<v Speaker 1>plastic surgery around this time to change his appearance and

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 1>his fingerprints, But of course we don't have any proof

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of that. That's just kind of a story that's out there.

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Even if Dillinger did go to this extreme, though ultimately

0:15:51.760 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 1>it didn't help them at all. On July twenty one,

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.720
<v Speaker 1>four Annas Sage contacted a police officer with information. Sage

0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.080
<v Speaker 1>was a Romanian immigrant who was the madam of a

0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 1>brothel in the Chicago area. Her real name was actually

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 1>on a companus because of the profession she was in.

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 1>She was being deported and in exchange for giving the

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Bureau information about Dillinger, she wanted the cash reward and

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 1>the FBI's help in preventing her deportation, So Purvis and

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>his colleagues agreed on at least the first part, and

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.120
<v Speaker 1>they said maybe her cooperation would help her with the

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 1>second part of it. So she told them she knew

0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Dillinger's current girlfriend, Polly Hamilton's. Some sources say that Anna

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 1>and Polly were roommates, others say that they were just girlfriends,

0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 1>but regardless, she said that she Dillinger and Hamilton's We're

0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.240
<v Speaker 1>all going to see the Clark Gable movie Manhattan Melodrama,

0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.200
<v Speaker 1>which was ironically a gangster movie, at either the Biograph

0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.760
<v Speaker 1>or the Marlborough Theater in Chicago the following night, So

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Sage said she'd let them know which theater they were

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 1>going to, and she also said she would wear an

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 1>orange skirt so that they could pick her out. That's

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 1>how she became known as the Woman in Red later on.

0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 1>So when Sunday, July twenty two rolled around, Stage still

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.000
<v Speaker 1>didn't know what theater they were going to, so agents

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:13.240
<v Speaker 1>were sent to both locations. Then, around eight thirty pm, Stage,

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.919
<v Speaker 1>Dillinger and Hamilton's all showed up at the Biograph, whoever,

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.560
<v Speaker 1>wanted the agents to wait until Dillinger came out so

0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:21.680
<v Speaker 1>that they wouldn't hurt anyone who was inside the theater

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 1>watching the movie. So all of the agents at the

0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.640
<v Speaker 1>other theaters used that time during the movie to come

0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.560
<v Speaker 1>over to the Biograph and to serve as reinforcements. So

0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.359
<v Speaker 1>at ten thirty PM, Dillinger came out of the theater

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 1>with the ladies and purpose was supposed to light his

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 1>cigar as the signal for the agents to close in

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.119
<v Speaker 1>and surround Dillinger, But there's some question as to whether

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.399
<v Speaker 1>the cigar was actually ever lit or not. They may

0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.440
<v Speaker 1>have just rushed in. Yeah, they may have just gone

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 1>for him as soon as they saw him. The agents

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 1>did surround Dillinger. Some witnesses say that Dillinger went for

0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.680
<v Speaker 1>his gun, others say that he didn't, but the agents

0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 1>claim he did and the outlaw was shot trying to

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.560
<v Speaker 1>escape down the alley. That's their story, at least so

0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.199
<v Speaker 1>by standards apparently tried to crowd around Dillinger's body in

0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 1>the street and dip their handkerchiefs and the edges of

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 1>their skirts or bits of paper in his blood as souvenirs.

0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:21.439
<v Speaker 1>Another case of these grizzly gangster souvenir things going on.

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.240
<v Speaker 1>But the remaining gang members were all captured or killed

0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 1>not too long after Dillinger's death, which really just added

0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 1>to the prestige of the Bureau of Investigation, which became

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:37.119
<v Speaker 1>the FBI in ninety five, and really boosted Hoover's reputation.

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 1>By mid nineteen thirty six, the heyday of the nineteen

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>thirties outlaws was really pretty much over, and Hoover said

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.119
<v Speaker 1>to have kept Dillinger's gun, straw, hat and death mask

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.919
<v Speaker 1>in a glass case outside of his office. The shrine

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.040
<v Speaker 1>stayed there until Hoover's death in nineteen seventy one. But

0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.439
<v Speaker 1>of course it's never just that simple when it comes

0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.160
<v Speaker 1>to famous outlaw Some researchers claimed that Dillinger wasn't really

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.880
<v Speaker 1>killed that night. They think that the Bureau of Investigation

0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.320
<v Speaker 1>agents killed another man in his place. In his book

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.080
<v Speaker 1>History's Greatest Lies, which was exerted in a two thousand

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.400
<v Speaker 1>nine issue of History Magazine, William Weir references a letter

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.920
<v Speaker 1>that Emil Went Not Could Junr received in nineteen sixty eight. Now,

0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Emil Went Not Could Junior, Just to remind you guys,

0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 1>he's um the son of the man who owned the

0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Little Bohemia Lodge. The lodge in Wisconsin, um, when Dillinger

0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.359
<v Speaker 1>stayed there in nineteen thirty four, the place where they

0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.119
<v Speaker 1>had exactly so, since Dillinger had escaped in such a hurry,

0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.639
<v Speaker 1>he left his stuff at the lodge, and the owners

0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 1>had used those belongings to set up a little Dillinger museum.

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 1>The person who had sent the letter to when Naka

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.960
<v Speaker 1>said that Dillinger was still alive and had been living

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.160
<v Speaker 1>in Hollywood under an assumed name since the shooting. Here.

0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 1>She also included a photo with the letter, offering it

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.920
<v Speaker 1>for use in the museum, and that was I guess,

0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 1>supposedly the purpose of the letter. And it apparently looked

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot like Dillinger could have looked as an older man.

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.520
<v Speaker 1>So we have to ask what pieces of evidence have

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 1>people put forth to actually support this theory. Some say

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.440
<v Speaker 1>the person shot had black hair and Dillinger was supposed

0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to have brown hair, but that could be a pretty

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.640
<v Speaker 1>easy fix. You can dye your hair and everything. Um.

0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 1>There was, however, also a discrepancy in eye color, so

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Navy records say that Dillinger's eyes were blue, but the

0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:31.760
<v Speaker 1>autopsy showed that the person shot had brown eyes. Um. Again,

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.200
<v Speaker 1>though you know, you never know. With eye color, people

0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.840
<v Speaker 1>can have different interpretations. But finally, the man autopsy had

0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.639
<v Speaker 1>a heart condition that there's no record of Dillinger having.

0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.800
<v Speaker 1>That's kind of the strange outlier here. So what do

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.680
<v Speaker 1>people who buy this theory think really happened. Well, it

0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 1>said that before he died, Dillinger was going by the

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.439
<v Speaker 1>alias Jimmy Lawrence in Chicago, But there really was a

0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.679
<v Speaker 1>low level Chicago criminal named Jimmie Lawrence who kind of

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.960
<v Speaker 1>resembled Dillinger and also had a heart condition. So some

0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 1>people think this man was killed instead of Dillinger and

0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 1>that Dillinger got the last laugh. Although we should say

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 1>that the FBI really considers this one of the top

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.639
<v Speaker 1>ten myths out there about Dillinger, and there are so

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.639
<v Speaker 1>many myths out there about him it's sometimes hard to

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 1>separate fact from fiction. Thanks so much for joining us

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.679
<v Speaker 1>on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive,

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:33.720
<v Speaker 1>if you heard an email address or a Facebook U

0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.000
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0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.040
<v Speaker 1>that could be obsolete. Now. Our current email address is

0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:44.680
<v Speaker 1>History Podcast at I heart radio dot com. Our old

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 1>health stuff works email address no longer works, and you

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:51.280
<v Speaker 1>can find us all over social media at Missed in History,

0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.480
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