WEBVTT - David Harbour & Dan Patrick, That Scene Season 2 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:06.640 Making triple deck or ego extravagance as a sunrise, watching 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:11.360 Westerns together before we doze off, and I know you're 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:21.400 getting older, growing changing, and I guess, if I'm being 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:27.960 really honest, that's what scares me. I don't want things 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.760 to change. How did it strike you when you first 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.319 read what you were going to be reading to her? 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.720 There's something so moving about this show, not even anything 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.280 in the writing or anything we're doing, just the fact 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.120 that the kids are getting older. You literally watch these 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.120 children grow up in front of your eyes, and you 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:46.599 have this character at the center of it, just being like, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.640 I don't want you guys to grow up. I think 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.560 there's something so basically primal about that as a parent. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.120 Welcome to That Sat with Me, Dan Patrick, an Amazon 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.039 original podcast where I get to talk to Hollywood stop 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.320 actors and directors about some of the most iconic scenes 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.120 that have defined their careers, helped shape the cinematic landscape, 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:16.040 then even become fixtures in pop culture. On today's episode, 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.039 were joined by actor David Harbor. David was born in 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.000 White Plains, New York, and began his professional acting career 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.679 on Broadway in nineteen ninety nine, when he was twenty 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.479 four years of age. As he worked his way into 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.080 the Hollywood system through supporting roles, Harbor had all but 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.800 given up on quote making it, that is, until he 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.640 went into an audition for the role of Sheriff Jim 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:42.399 Hopper on the Netflix series Stranger Things. Stranger Things first 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.480 season was created in twenty sixteen by the Duffer Brothers 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.320 and quickly became one of Netflix's most popular series. In 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.840 its third season in twenty nineteen, it was viewed by 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:57.240 more than sixty four million households. Harbor stars in the series, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.320 alongside Monona Ryder, Millie, Bobby Brown, and Finn Wolfhart. The 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.600 success of Stranger Things accelerated David's career, earning him leading 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.840 roles in movies like Hellboy, Marble's Black Widow and Steven 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.600 Soderbergh's No Sudden Moves. The scene in question today comes 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.839 during the finale of season three of Stranger Things, when 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.600 Hop sacrifices himself to save the town and the people 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.440 he loves. But the real emotional gut punch comes when 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:34.800 Eleven finds the letter left behind. You know when that 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.880 letter to Eleven is pretty powerful. How did it strike 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.280 you when you first read what you were going to 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.639 be reading to her. The funny thing about this particular 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.000 scene is it came halfway through the season. Like when 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.040 we shot the original stuff of him on the bed 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.680 talking to Micha and eleven and reading the initial speech, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.280 it hadn't even been written that part that he was 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.000 supposed to say, and it really only happened as we 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.000 were shooting that episod. So eight came in and I 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.080 saw that there was this whole rest of the letter, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.280 and they just stumbled on this thing in the writer's 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.760 room where they were like, what if there was another 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.280 piece of that letter? I mean, a little easter egg 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:12.960 thing is you can go back and look at him 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.280 reading the letter on his bed when he's rehearsing it, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.399 And when we shot that, there was just a little paragraph, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.960 and they actually had to go in and cegi a 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.560 whole extra bit of it so that you could believe 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.480 that there was a lot more written on there that 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.880 he didn't get to say. There was something about that 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:36.280 letter that was so earnest and so personal. And again, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.560 one of the things that I think was so perfect 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.320 that really sums him up is he just says it 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:44.960 in a letter. I mean it just says I don't 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.880 want things to change. There's something so moving about this show, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.440 not even anything in the writing or anything we're doing, 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.480 just the fact that the kids are getting older. You 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.760 literally watch these children grow up in front of your eyes, 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.520 and you have this character at the center of it, 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.440 just being like, I don't want you guys to grow up. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.480 And I think there's something so basically primal about that. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:13.800 As a pair, I don't want things to change. So 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.080 I think maybe that's why I came in here to 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:22.279 try to maybe stop that changing, to turn back the clock, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:31.680 to make things go back to how they were. But 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:37.440 I know that's naive. It's just not how life works. 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.680 It's moving, always moving, whether you like it or not. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:53.440 And yeah, sometimes it's painful, sometimes it's sad, and sometimes 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.760 it's surprising. My stepdaughters An now are eight and nine, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.599 and there's just something so prep it's just about there. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.880 But you see them each week, it seems like they 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.160 get more sophisticated, and there's you know, of course, there's 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.560 beauty in that, but there's also just something tragic, like, oh, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:13.360 I wish you could just stay a puppy. A puppy 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.080 gets doubles in size in a couple of weeks. Like 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.320 you see the puppy get bigger right in front of you, 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.680 Denzel didn't get older in front of you. A little bit, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:28.040 but not much. You're right, he still looks pretty good. Yeah, exactly, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.640 because I think time really is the biggest villain and 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.320 the most profound thing in our lives. I mean, it 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.520 gives everything, meaning it's also the villain that we're constantly 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.520 fighting against. It's like everything breaks down over time, like 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.560 my body and my mind. I mean, throughout the season, 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.000 we see him like eating potato chips on the couch, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.600 yelling at children, just being a nasty guy, even to 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.280 Joyce and all these people that love him and that 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.520 he loves. And you don't quite really understand what it's 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.919 about until you really get to the core of it 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.880 that he arrives at, which is that I'm so tired 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.560 of things changing. He had such a beautiful, idyllic life 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.839 with this young daughter of his and then things dramatically change, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.279 and he's so terrified of change. Now here's what's going 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:19.039 to happen. I'm gonna drive you home, and I'm gonna speak, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:28.200 and you're going to listen, and then maybe maybe by 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.760 the end of it. Maybe, if you're lucky, maybe I 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:39.919 will continue to allow you to date my daughter. What 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.599 do you take away from that first time you saw 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.360 Levin read that letter, I didn't get to see her 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.480 shoot it, so I really just shoot my portion of it, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.119 and then I watched the show along with everybody else 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.880 when it comes out. That's the first time you saw 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.200 her in that scene. Yeah, And we shoot a lot 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.200 in order so I shall the big fight and I 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.599 have like little things like that. And then I shot 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.320 my sequence in the cabin towards the end. I hadn't 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.040 seen her for months at the end of the Shoe 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.920 and then for six months in post production. So yeah, 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.120 I just watched it along with everybody else when it 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.240 came out. It's beautiful. I mean million. I have always 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.480 had sort of a special relationship because I knew her 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.480 when she was so young, and I knew her before 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.000 any of this big fame hit. You know, I have 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.080 a real protective feeling for her. I have a real, like, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.640 you know, worry about her. I worry about her and 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.960 the fame and all that she has to struggle with. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.320 And I've just always felt this kind of deep fatherly 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.800 affection for her, So you know, it's on one hand 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.360 wonderful to see her do this beautiful job so moving, 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:53.800 and on the other hand, I can really only see 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.400 her as this eleven character and to see her in 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.640 that pain. I mean, I remember even that scene where 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.760 she's wandering around at the end of the after Joyce 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.480 comes out Hopper's dad and she's looking for him, and 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.160 I remember, you know, just what an awful thing to 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:14.720 have this innocent little creature that's been holed up finally 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.680 find someone who cares about her and takes care of her, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:23.480 and to lose that person. So you know what, keep 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:28.920 on growing up. Kill, don't let me stop. You make mistakes, 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:34.320 learn from m and when life hurts you, because it will, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:42.040 remember the hurt. The hurt is good. It means you're 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:49.800 out of that cave. But please, if you don't mind, 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.320 for the sake of your poor old dad, keep the 0:08:55.360 --> 0:09:01.320 door open three inches. And I couldn't help but think 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.120 back to when we're first introduced to your character. That 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.080 guy couldn't have raised a daughter, but a couple of 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.800 years later, like what happened with that transformation? And I 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:16.439 didn't know if real life helped you raise a daughter 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:21.920 or TV help you real daughters in real life. Yeah, 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.960 it's much more of the latter, Like TV definitely helped 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.400 me in my life. I'm very much in New York 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.760 sort of city rat. I liked my freedom, my independence, 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.959 and then it was really this part that did change 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.760 a lot of that perspective. You know. The show sort 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.160 of opened my heart in a lot of different ways. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.520 And one of the ways that it did was it 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.480 started to make me realize how thin my existence was 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:52.439 without a family. The fact that this guy was maturing 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.840 into a father sort of was something clearly that my 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.200 subconscious was sort of crying out to do. And I 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.000 think it's partially why things are successful is because there's 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:06.000 some unique alchemy between the performer and the role. And 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.199 I feel like there was something in Hopper that had 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.880 this deep need for family, and there was something in 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.319 me that had it too, but that I wasn't even 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.880 aware of. And then as I began to explore this role, 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.040 the role allowed me to do that in my real life. 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.079 It's kind of like it was a nice test run, 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.520 but thematically the show's about found family. Yes, it is. 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.120 I think one of the most interesting things about Hopper 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.160 that I've been playing with through the seasons and won't 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.360 have to see where this goes. Is that there's also 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.400 something to do with blood family that is different than 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.440 anything else, And I think it's why we're haunted when 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.040 we have you know, you can have a found family 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.719 and yet you still have like an absent father or 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.440 an absent mother in a sense, and I think you're 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.280 still haunted by that for your whole life. You know, 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.120 Eleven becomes Hopper's daughter and he loves her in a deep, 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.360 deep way, but also when you substitute something like that, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.400 it almost makes you more haunted about your blood daughter 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.559 and her death. So in a way, there is a 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.440 maturing and a sort of good feeling around that, and 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.720 underneath it there's this feeling like you know, your blood 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.200 family will never quite be replaced. That is sort of 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.160 the haunted quality that continues to pulse through their relationship 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.000 a little bit. How much input do you have in 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.280 the script? How much did you have in this season 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.640 coming up that you could say how about or let's 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:37.079 try this instead? Yes, I mean they write beautiful scripts, 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.800 they direct beautifully, they have great ideas, and they're also 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.920 very collaborative. So coming in I can do a lot 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.440 of what I want and change around a lot of 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.520 different stuff. And again, a lot of it is simple 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.719 moments ideas about things. The scripts are so good when 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.960 they come in, though it's rare on these I like 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:57.720 to change a lot of stuff. I tend to feel 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.679 like I'm, you know, pretty smart about this stuff. But 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.920 usually they're smarter than I am. They come up with 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:05.880 great stuff and I just read it and I'm just like, 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.600 this is great, But I can change sort of whatever 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.280 I want. What's it like to pick up the script 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:17.320 and realize you're dying? We had always talked about this, 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.200 you know, and on interviews I had had to say 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.720 for about a year that I was like, not sure, 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.719 but I have always talked to them about this arc 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.840 of resurrection. Wait, when do you know that you're not 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.280 really dying? I mean, me and these guys, the Duffer brothers, 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.320 are unnaturally close in a way that I rarely heard 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.400 show runners and actors as close as me and these guys. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.240 I think it's partially because they were really nobody's when 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.520 we started this show, and I was in nobody too 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.440 in a sense, and so we kind of came up 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.400 together and feel like a kinship and a brotherhood around that, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.280 and I've known the arc of it since the very 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.920 first frame, And in fact, when we were that first season, 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.160 we were all so scared and we never thought we'd 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.440 get picked up for a second season. But we would 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.880 sit around and fantasize about what it could be, and 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:09.640 they told me a lot about what it could be, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.520 and this and that and the other thing. So when 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.680 the third season rolled around, we talked a lot about 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.640 these ideas of resurrection. Even from the first season, when 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.200 Joyce comes in and says to him that she's missing 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.720 her son, he just doesn't want to look for the kid. 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.439 And at some point I started to realize I was like, 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.760 Hopper's kind of a piece of shit, Like in the 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.600 beginning of the thing, like he's he's really trying to 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.719 kill himself and he has to die. Ninety nine out 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.120 of one hundred times kid goes missing, the kid is 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.320 with a parent or a relative. What about the other time, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.640 you said, ninety nine out of a hundred, What about 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.800 the other time one? The one Joyce is Hawkins. Okay, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:54.800 I know the worst thing that's ever happened here in 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.400 the four years I've been working here. Do one of 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.400 the worst thing it was when an owl attacked Eleanor's 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.520 head because it thought that her hair was a nest. 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:08.840 Just find my son, hop find him. When he finds Will, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.800 he gets resurrected in a sense, and he finds himself 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.520 and he finds his purpose. But I've always felt like 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.200 the Hopper that was had to die in the sense. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.480 And the great thing about sci Fi is you get 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.120 to do this squacky resurrection thing, where like in Lord 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.800 of the Rings, Gandolf the Gray descends into darkness with 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.680 the ball rock Devil and then re emerges as Gandalf 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.320 the White. And I always thought it would be. We 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.200 had always talked about this idea of like him having 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.120 this fatherly angst and this whole thing and getting bigger 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.640 and then like really going down with the devil and 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.480 then re emerging. So but yeah, I knew he was 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.920 gonna have a very emotional, big scene, but I knew 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.960 that he also wasn't really dead. Well who is Hopper then? 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.280 After the resurrection? Well, well don't you wouldn't you like 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:00.200 to know? I mean, he's being rebirthed. This season, he's 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.840 in a particularly brutal world. He's also gone from being 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.680 a police officer to being a prisoner and he's in 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.960 a foreign land. We're going to see a lot of 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.160 new colors from him and a lot of old, old, 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.400 deep colors that we haven't really explored. There are these 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.320 boxes in the basement of season two that have some 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.200 words on them, and we go into a lot of 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.720 that backstory that we haven't seen. And we wanted to 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.440 have a resurrection to have him explore this new plumage, 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.840 shed some of that older skin, and really become more 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.640 of the man that he needs to be for the 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:41.440 final push. I saw some Indiana Jones in there later, 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.280 and like season three, now you're kind of you got 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.800 the hat on, You're you're kind of embracing Indiana Jones 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.600 a little bit. Is that by design? Yeah? Totally. I 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:56.760 mean we love the Spielberg movies. That's the Duffer's whole 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.560 thing is, you know, we're they're doing Gooni's et Indiana 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.840 Jones and and my character has always occupied that space 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:14.680 of Indiana Jones. Yeah, I've got Jim Hawks. We really 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.040 did this kind of magnum pi thing with him the 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.800 last season with the Hawaiian shirt or the eighties type 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:24.160 shirt and this mustache because the original conception when he 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.600 goes out and buys new clothes, we were like this 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:28.880 too much. At first, she went to the mall and 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.000 went to Banana Republic back before it was like the 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.120 Banana Republic. I don't know if you remember Banana Republic 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.480 in the eighties, but Banana Republic in the eighties had 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:41.680 like elephant tusks and like jungle gear, like jungle photographer 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.880 vests and stuff. So we had Flow his secretary get 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.520 him like a full on Indiana Jones practically costume from 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.960 Banana Republic. And then we saw it in the fittings 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:52.360 and we were like, this is just too much. We 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.440 gotta stop nodding so much sothing. But I mean, we 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.400 love that movie. I just love that movie, and I 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.040 love Harrison Ford and general. So there's so many homages 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.280 to you know, Nick Nold, d and all these other guys, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.200 but especially to Harrison Ford and what he did with me, 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.840 Dan Jones. Now, did you stay in Russia to film 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:16.080 Black Widow? I mean, it's wacky that I'm doing two 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.760 projects in Russian prisons, but they are stranger things. Prison 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.879 is in Lithuania, and then the Black Widow stuff is 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:30.040 primarily on stages in London. So you're you're well versed 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.360 in Russian prison I'm unfortunately well well versed in Russian prisons. Well, 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.879 if you didn't make major in Russian at Dartmouth, did you, No, 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:43.960 I have no relationship to Russia. I've read some dust Tryevsky, Chekhov, 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.520 and that's about where my Russian yeah ends. How long 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.000 did it take before you told Winona that you had 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.480 a crush on her? It was pretty immediate, Like you 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.960 try to play it cool. I've worked with a lot 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.680 of big celebrities throughout my career, and you know, you 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.720 try to play it cool the first couple of days 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.120 and pretend like you're just a couple of actors. But 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:07.920 it was pretty early on. I think it was one 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.040 of our long shoots where you just start to get comfortable. 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:18.159 You say, Friday, eight o'clock. Hell likes to watch Miami 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.000 Vice on Fridays. It SARTs a ten, so I can't 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.919 be out late on Friday. Okay, well how about seven? 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:29.680 Then seven? And so it was Friday. I meet you there. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.639 I picked me up, picking you up seven pm Friday, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.439 not to date, just for clarifications, because I mean, just 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.640 when you say date just so that we're crystal clear 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:49.560 by things, so yeah, stop talking. We had a real 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.840 chemistry right from the bat. I think it was the 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.040 first night we were in La after we'd both been cast, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.320 and the Duffers we all went out to dinner. She's 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:03.760 such a sweet, very affectionate, very open woman for being 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.919 such a big star, and she just kind of grabbed 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.359 me and we talked for like five hours. I remember 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.280 the Duffers were like trying to get us to go. 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:13.320 They were like, we're done with dinner. We've been done 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:14.919 with dinner for three hours, and you guys are just 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.480 But I have a real chemistry or real affection for it. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.399 But I tried to play it cool and then I just, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.919 you know, it blurted out at some point like I 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:26.680 love you. I think you're good. And then you wait 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.199 for her response back thought, don't you hope that she 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.240 says something nice back? Or did you just hang there? No? Yeah, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.360 I'm like a five year old boy, I just run away. 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.240 How do you think you got cast? What do you 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.320 think you did during your audition that got you that 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.000 this role? Which stranger things? Yeah, Carmen Cube of the 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:53.000 casting director was very interested in me for a role, 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:55.879 and this thing came about. They sent me the script. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.399 I thought the script was extraordinary, and they wanted me 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.400 to read for it, so I went in. And I mean, 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.320 I guess I had gotten to a certain point in 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.879 my career where I was pretty tired of not getting 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.240 cast and things that I felt very connected to and 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.159 kind of getting cast as like the supporting guy running 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.440 with a gun, chasing Denzel and stuff. So I was 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.359 pretty cynical, to be honest, And I guess I wore 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.400 a hat because I felt like this guy is such 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.959 an alcoholic and a pill popper that he wouldn't want 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.199 people to see his eyes. He'd always want to be 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.920 sort of shielded, And so I wore a hat. And 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.520 Carmen and I read the scene once and you know, 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:37.240 she was like, that was good. You want to try 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.480 one without the hat so we can kind of see 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.240 your eyes, And I was like no, So we did 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.440 another one just with the hat. You know, it's sometimes 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:51.040 those things where you don't care. I didn't think I 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.280 would get this. At that point. Netflix had had The 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.399 House of Cards with Kevin Spacey and Orange is the 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.639 New Black, and I really thought they were looking for 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:01.800 kind of a big star for this, and I didn't 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:03.800 think there was really any shot of me getting it, 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.720 so I kind of, in a sense, threw it away 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.520 and was and I think that was part of what 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.440 made the audition so relaxed and special. Gosh, looking back, 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.120 if he would really gone after it, do you think 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:17.960 he would have screwed it up? I mean, I think 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:21.520 that's the cruel irony of this entire business is just 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.160 the you know, the more you want it, the less 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.520 they want you. So yeah, there was something about that, 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.520 you know, who cares quality? I think made me very attractive. 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.240 Do you have a nightmare audition story? So many of them? 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.280 I mean I can't even you know, I've been called 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.320 just terrible. I mean people just have thought I was 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.919 just awful. Normally, when people don't like it, they just 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:44.119 let you go and everything. But there are people out 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.879 there that are just cruel and awful for years and 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:51.199 years and year. But did you take names? And I 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.680 mean you know at the time you take a name, 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:55.919 I remember all these that way at the time, and 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.639 you're just like, I will never when I get big, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.760 I will never and that person will suffer. And that 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:03.919 goes on for like a month and then you're just 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.800 like whatever. And there are people that I see now 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.199 that are successful, very successful, and I was like, I 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.280 was gonna take that guy, and you're like whatever, Like 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.879 let him wait, there's room. There's room for all of us. 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.440 Are you any different as an actor from when you 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.160 didn't think you could get these rules? I know you're 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.440 always working on your craft, but are you that much 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.640 of a different person actor than you were, let's say, 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.960 five years ago. When your narrative is validated, it gives 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.040 you a certain confidence, and the fact that people want 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:37.200 what you have to say gives you a certain relaxation 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:41.200 and exploring as opposed to trying new things. I'm less 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.119 trying out new things, which was more of what I 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:48.640 needed before, and now you've become this viable thing, and 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.560 you want to explore more of that viable thing. In 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:54.920 a sense, I'm different, but I'm still the same guy 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.359 who's been doing it for twenty five years. But what 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.280 comes in now there's got to be a whole lot 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.320 different than it was a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.560 And also it's like, you know, it used to be 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:07.600 just projects would come to you and you'd get cast 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.080 or audition or something, and Now it's more about setting 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:15.480