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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told you?

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Speaker 1: From house stup works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we

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Speaker 1: are talking about the Playboy Club as opposed to Playboy

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Speaker 1: the magazine, which uh, I'm sure at some point and

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Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you, history of the future we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about um. And we were initially inspired to talk

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Speaker 1: about the Playboy Club because of this show that got

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Speaker 1: a lot of buzz on NBC UM called called the

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Speaker 1: Playboy Lust's called the Playboy Club and as uh, as

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Speaker 1: fate would have it. As we were in this podcast

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Speaker 1: studio recording this episode, you're about to hear on the

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Speaker 1: Playboy Club, NBC was busy announce saying that they were

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Speaker 1: canceling the show, right, So just bear that in mind

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Speaker 1: as we make a couple of references to this show.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very it's not so much about the show though,

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Speaker 1: as about the actual history of the Playboy Club, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: We're just going to talk about the history of the

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Speaker 1: club and how it came about, where where it is

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Speaker 1: now and how maybe it really is not nearly as

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Speaker 1: glamorous as they portray it on television, right um, Because

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Speaker 1: Gloria's Steinum in fact called for a boycott of this

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Speaker 1: NBC show before it premiered, Um saying that it is

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Speaker 1: glamorizing this life, that is the life of the bunny

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Speaker 1: who worked at the Playboy Club, because there is a

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Speaker 1: difference right between bunnies and playmates, right yeah. If you

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Speaker 1: if you landed the cover, you were a playmate if

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Speaker 1: you were in the magazine. So basically, if you were

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Speaker 1: someone's bunny waitress, you would introduce yourself as I'm Bunny whatever,

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Speaker 1: I'm Bunny Caroline, You're Bunny Kristen. But if one of

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Speaker 1: us got the cover, we would say hello, I'm your

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Speaker 1: playmate airline. So that was kind of an elevation, was

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Speaker 1: a step up. Well, Glory stein Um went undercover for

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks just as a bunny in training

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Speaker 1: and so um, when she heard about this NBC show,

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Speaker 1: she was up in arms and said, this is this

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Speaker 1: is terrible. Why are we glorifying the Playboy Club? Right yeah?

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Speaker 1: She said that it was actually really tacky, Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: with creepy men grabbing your bunnytail and whatnot, and that

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Speaker 1: waitresses were actually or bunnies. I'm sorry, let's let's not

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Speaker 1: forget to dehumanize these people. Um, that bunnies were actually

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Speaker 1: underpaid and had to deal with really terrible working conditions.

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Speaker 1: But not all bunnies, former bunnies would agree with Steinum.

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Speaker 1: As we will learn, right, but first let's start with

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Speaker 1: half did do didn't Did you do? Back in time? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Have have kind of started Esquire actually, um, And then

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Speaker 1: he ended up to raise money to start Playboy. He

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Speaker 1: ended up hawking his furniture and he got initial investment

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Speaker 1: of about tin grand and started Playboy, which launched in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. And this is all going on in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: And by nineteen fifty eight, Playboy circulation had reached almost

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Speaker 1: a million, and he was already making four point two

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Speaker 1: million in revenue office magazine in just five years. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy. Well, I guess people were picking up what

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Speaker 1: he was putting down. Those those were the days when

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Speaker 1: people could could actually start magazines. Yeah, exactly, and he

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Speaker 1: did it. He says that he perceived the need for

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Speaker 1: a healthier attitude about sex, so he put um naked

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Speaker 1: Women in magazine. Yeah, I thought this was an interesting

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Speaker 1: quote from Paul Gerbert, who was the executive director of

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Speaker 1: the Kinzie Institute UM. He said that Heffner's genius is

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Speaker 1: that he is linked sex with up upward mobility, right,

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Speaker 1: which will definitely see with the evolution of the Playboy Club,

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Speaker 1: which started um all because of an article of a

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Speaker 1: ran in Playboy and eighteen fifty nine about this place

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Speaker 1: called the Gaslight Club, right, yeah, bucks. Some waitresses were

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Speaker 1: of corsets, they walked around pretty much half naked, and

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Speaker 1: thousands of people wrote in regarding this article and Playboy

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Speaker 1: wanting to know how they could join, how they could

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Speaker 1: be members, how do I get in? And actually it

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Speaker 1: spawned a great idea, you know, idea from Playboys promotions

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Speaker 1: manager Victor Lowndes and his girlfriend Elsa Torrance, who prodded

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Speaker 1: he to start a club like it. He wasn't super

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Speaker 1: keen on the idea, but you know, they talked him

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Speaker 1: into it, and Ilsa came in wearing a satin one

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Speaker 1: piece and some bunny ears, and that that helped convince them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the bunny costume was not heff Nur's idea. It was

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Speaker 1: all thanks to the girlfriend and then um, there's this

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Speaker 1: anecdote about her the first time she comes in wearing

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Speaker 1: this kind of homemade sat and get up and he

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Speaker 1: Heffner hikes up the um the leg line, basically making

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Speaker 1: it extremely high cut. Too emphasize and exaggerate the length

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Speaker 1: of the women's legs, right, let's make them a little

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Speaker 1: more naked. And of course, um that they all had

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Speaker 1: very large bust lines, regardless of whether or not the

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Speaker 1: bunnies actually could fill them out, right, because they could

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Speaker 1: use you know, all sorts of things to uh to

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Speaker 1: fill out those those bunny costumes. Right. Gloria's Dynham and

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Speaker 1: her essay about her infiltration experience actually has a list

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Speaker 1: of things that bunnies with stuff there tops with She

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Speaker 1: herself got her top stuffed and I say got her

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Speaker 1: top stuff because someone else did it for her. Um

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Speaker 1: with a dry cleaner bag that other people used, cotton

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Speaker 1: and clean X and whatever else. And he would have

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Speaker 1: to do a bunny dip when you were serving a client.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise it was a specialized way to to um and

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Speaker 1: bunny dip and it's not really working basically like gracefully

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Speaker 1: squatting down so that your your breast stuffage doesn't end

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Speaker 1: up on the table right, a graceful squat. It sounds terrible. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the first club, which it opened in Chicago, and

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Speaker 1: it was a membership club, and so it sort of

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Speaker 1: made it more exclusive. You got a key to indicate

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Speaker 1: that you remember, and it was a fifty dollar fee

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Speaker 1: for residents and twenty five dollars for out of towners. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the first club open in nineteen sixty and by

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, Time magazine calls the Playboy membership key

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Speaker 1: the closest thing to five Beta Kappa from Yale, and

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Speaker 1: they sold more than fifty thousand in the first year.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I would say that, but I

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Speaker 1: mean maybe is it really that I don't know, Well,

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Speaker 1: this is nineteen sixty. You know this is a big deal.

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Speaker 1: I mean the gap think about the reaction to the

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Speaker 1: gas Like club, and the Playboy Club has even more cash.

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Speaker 1: A U would you like me to describe the decor um?

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Speaker 1: Hugh Heffner apparently loves the color orange, and so there

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Speaker 1: was a ton of orange. It was very masculine. There's

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Speaker 1: lots of teak chrome avocado. Um described as a sort

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Speaker 1: of Danish modern look, that was very big at the time,

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Speaker 1: which makes me think of it as just a really

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Speaker 1: sleazy ikea. Um and and speaking of you know, actually

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Speaker 1: maybe it kind of is like a sleazy ikea because

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Speaker 1: everything on the menu, all the food, the steaks and drinks,

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Speaker 1: everything totaled up to a dollar fifty. Right, you know

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Speaker 1: you can go an Ikea, get yourself with some cheap

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Speaker 1: meatballs strength to walk through that place. And I can't

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Speaker 1: you know what, I don't care what you say. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of sleazy because think about how many people

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Speaker 1: have touched that stuff. I mean, that's just Jeremy. That's

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Speaker 1: not sweezy. It's one and the same in my head.

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Speaker 1: So back to come back to the Playboy Club. Back

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Speaker 1: to the Playboy Club. Yeah, so half um he was

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Speaker 1: going for a bachelor pat aesthetic. He said that the

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Speaker 1: clubs were a combination um club apartment sort of to

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Speaker 1: give in a home away from home, you know, if

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Speaker 1: your home had half naked women walking around in it.

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Speaker 1: But that's not to say that the men did not

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Speaker 1: bring their wives along on the weekends. There was one

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Speaker 1: former bunny talking about how it was very important, um,

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Speaker 1: if you had one one client that you would serve

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Speaker 1: all the time. Like men who were higher paying members

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Speaker 1: like to have their own bunny who would serve them

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Speaker 1: whenever they came into the club. But then on the

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Speaker 1: weekend they would bring their wives in and um, so

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Speaker 1: as to allay any of their fears, the wives fears

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Speaker 1: that there might be something um untoward going on to

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Speaker 1: the Playboy club. That bunny would always make nice with

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Speaker 1: the wives and bring them swizzlesticks to take home to

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Speaker 1: the kids, just a little presents to keep swizzlesticks in

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Speaker 1: the costume in the dry cleaner bag. Exactly, it's actually

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Speaker 1: dry cleaner bag full of swizzle sticks right. Well, now,

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Speaker 1: they wanted to make sure that the wives weren't threatened

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Speaker 1: because they want to the husbands to be able to

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Speaker 1: keep coming and be like, look, I'm not your competition.

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Speaker 1: I'm just you know, a glorified waitress, so don't worry

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Speaker 1: about it. Um. And in nineteen sixty three, that's when

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Speaker 1: Gloria Steinham auditions to become a bunny. Because you really

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Speaker 1: you didn't need much much experience to be a bunny.

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Speaker 1: You just had to be between the ages of eighteen

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Speaker 1: and twenty three, and you just needed to be beautiful,

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Speaker 1: charming and refined. So Caroline, you and I be Shoein's

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Speaker 1: who were if weren't so dag um old. If there's

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Speaker 1: anything anyone says about me, it is that I am refined.

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Speaker 1: So Steinham made the cut and she wrote about her

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Speaker 1: experience in an essay called a Bunny's Tale, which was

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Speaker 1: published in Show magazine. And for anyone who hasn't read

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Speaker 1: Steinham's essay, you can think of it as if you

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Speaker 1: were to take Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and set it

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Speaker 1: in the Playboy Club. There you have it. It was

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Speaker 1: a horror story. Interesting, yeah, she's saying, because they claimed

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Speaker 1: that you could make a thousand dollars a week. Stein

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Speaker 1: Um says no, because there is this week long training

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Speaker 1: period all the bunnies had to go to get paid

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Speaker 1: for it. You pretty much had to work every day,

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Speaker 1: all day to make two hundred or three hundred bucks

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Speaker 1: a week. Those costumes were not comfortable. Steinhum says that

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Speaker 1: she lost something like ten pounds in two weeks just

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Speaker 1: from sweating. Sweating and well that and not being able

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Speaker 1: to eat on your shift. There are all these rules

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Speaker 1: and the bunny manual that you had to follow. The

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Speaker 1: dictated how you smoked drink eight, interacted with customers, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And you know how you delivered drinks, which was the

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Speaker 1: bunny did we already talking, you know, bending over backwards

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Speaker 1: and doing the graceful squad to deliver deliver a cocktail?

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Speaker 1: You couldn't if you were dancing on the floor with clients,

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Speaker 1: you could not. There could be no fiscal contact, which

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Speaker 1: is why non touched dances such as the twist and

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Speaker 1: the watusi or big big Bunny favorites. Um. But the

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Speaker 1: biggest revelation that Gloria Steinem had ad from working at

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Speaker 1: the Playboy Club was the whole objectification angle. She came

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Speaker 1: away from it saying, um, you know that we as

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Speaker 1: in women are all bunnies, all being judged based on

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Speaker 1: their um are physical appearance being objectified by men. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: underpaid having to look all sexy all the time like

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Speaker 1: we do. But at the same time, though some other

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Speaker 1: bunnies at the time I didn't agree with stein um um.

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Speaker 1: For instance Trish Murphy, who was a former bunny. She

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Speaker 1: was talking recently to Vanity Fair and she says, the

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Speaker 1: feminists used to stay to us, you're selling out, You're

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Speaker 1: being exploited, but we never felt that. We felt that

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Speaker 1: we were the first women we knew who bought their

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Speaker 1: own apartment of single women, and to me, it was

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Speaker 1: emancipation and it was empowering, right, And they actually uh

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Speaker 1: touched on that in the show. In the first episode

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Speaker 1: of the Playboy Club, there is I think there's one

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Speaker 1: or two bunnies who actually say something along those lines,

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Speaker 1: if I'm making more than my husband or I'm making

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Speaker 1: more than my father, and I mean, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: great if if this gives UM women an ability to

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Speaker 1: be independent that they wouldn't otherwise have. However, it's I

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Speaker 1: think it's unfortunate that they had to go this route,

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Speaker 1: but you know it's it's wonderful that they found independence somehow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and you have to think about it, like

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Speaker 1: putting it into the context of it being the early sixties. UM.

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Speaker 1: The sad fact was there really weren't that many, um

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Speaker 1: that that many employment outlets available to women. UM And

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Speaker 1: for for instance, I thought this was kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: This was This is an excerpt from the nineteen eight

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Speaker 1: Bunny Manual, which was the rule book that all of

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Speaker 1: the new Bunnies would would get and it says our

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Speaker 1: bunnies represent varied backgrounds. Among them are ex school teachers, secretaries, actresses, dancers,

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Speaker 1: models and co ed wow, all male fantasies, all and all.

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Speaker 1: I mean like, that's that's it, that's your that's your

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Speaker 1: employment umbrella. At the time, well, Katherine Lee Scott, a

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Speaker 1: former Bunny and author of The Bunny Year, um, she

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Speaker 1: wanted to quiet the haters and she basically said that

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Speaker 1: there was a joy and there was an innocence to it.

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Speaker 1: That these were college girls and girls trying to launch

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Speaker 1: their careers and work their way through school. It could

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Speaker 1: be your daughter, it could be your sister. And she

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Speaker 1: says that's what she thought that people found threatening about

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Speaker 1: it was that here were these girls not necessarily like

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Speaker 1: drop dead model, actress, gorgeous, but these were girls who

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Speaker 1: were really trying to get ahead and make some money,

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Speaker 1: and that they it wasn't necessarily sleazy and you know gross,

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Speaker 1: They weren't hookers. They were enjoying what they did, right. Um,

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Speaker 1: But I mean we do have to acknowledge, you know,

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Speaker 1: a point that Steinham brought up, especially when she was

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Speaker 1: calling for the boycott of you know, the way that

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Speaker 1: the men would treat the bunny is just being constantly

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Speaker 1: objectified and sexualized. And it's interesting that the Bunny Manual

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Speaker 1: explicitly prohibits any kind of mingling, fraternizing, socializing, or physical

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Speaker 1: contact with clientele. But the untold story behind all that is,

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Speaker 1: while you know, when they're on the clock, the women

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Speaker 1: were certainly not allowed to even give their last names

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Speaker 1: to patrons at the club, But after hours they were

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Speaker 1: kind of expected to go to these parties and hobnob

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Speaker 1: with these these men like helf and Victor Lownes and

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Speaker 1: other cronies of theirs, and probably were expected to, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, to engage in other extracurricular activities. Yes. Well,

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Speaker 1: actually Victor Lown's wife is a former bunny and she

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Speaker 1: called the experience liberating. So I guess everybody has a

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Speaker 1: different opinion. Glorious Steinham would definitely disagree, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there are others, but um, I mean, one bunny said

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Speaker 1: that she could make a thousand dollars a week and

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Speaker 1: that she didn't even She and some other bunnies didn't

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Speaker 1: even cash all their paychecks all the time because they

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Speaker 1: were rolling in dough. And that's probably why almost every

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Speaker 1: time at least hearing the heyday of the Playboy clubs

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Speaker 1: really in the in the sixties and maybe in the

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Speaker 1: early seventies when the new clubs are opening up, there

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Speaker 1: would be hundreds of women who would audition for and

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Speaker 1: you actually had to audition, um for these these bunny jobs.

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Speaker 1: Although and uh Steinham's description it sounded like she kind

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Speaker 1: of just walked in. I read her essay and it

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Speaker 1: sounded like she just came in and filled out the

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Speaker 1: application and got got a look of approval from someone

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Speaker 1: and they were like, just show up here via bunny,

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Speaker 1: be a bunny. Um. But maybe we should mention a

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Speaker 1: few notable x bunnies, including Steinham, because there is a

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Speaker 1: theme of obviously using the Playboy Club as a means

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Speaker 1: to an end. No one really was like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to develop a life, lifelong career at

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Speaker 1: a bunny. Well, and also you couldn't develop a lifelong

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Speaker 1: career because you would age out. I mean, if they

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Speaker 1: were looking for girls between the ages of eighteen and

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Speaker 1: twenty three. Um, it was kind of understood, sort of

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Speaker 1: like it was for flight attendants at the time that

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Speaker 1: if you're you know, I mean, we'd probably be crusty

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Speaker 1: old crabs at the Bunny Club. Yeah. Probably. Well, I

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Speaker 1: just wouldn't put up with that. I can't walker, I

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Speaker 1: can't walk around on high heels that long. I'm sorry. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you mentioned a means to an end, and

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Speaker 1: that's what Carol Cleveland called it. She Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I love her. She for all you Monty Python fans

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Speaker 1: out there, was in almost thirty episodes of The Flying Circus.

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Speaker 1: And if you're still not clearing which one she is,

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Speaker 1: she's you know, the woman on Monty Python, Blonde adorable. Um,

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Speaker 1: she played Zuoit in The Holy Grail. She's fabulous and

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Speaker 1: she she did she called Bunny is m U a

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Speaker 1: means to an end and it did. It got her

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Speaker 1: acting career going. Um. And then we also have Debbie

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Speaker 1: Harry Blonde who worked at the Playboy Club for a

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Speaker 1: while before she started rocking out. Um. And then there's

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Speaker 1: Lauren Hutton who worked there for three months that it

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Speaker 1: was a good experience. Um. We have Patricia Quinn as well,

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Speaker 1: who is Magenta from the Rocky Horror pictures. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: famous disembodied lips on the Rocky Horror in the in

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Speaker 1: the beginning credits. Yeah, Um, but the Playboy Club really

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Speaker 1: lost its luster in the eighties. I mean it started

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Speaker 1: it started to get pretty cheesy. And really by that point, um,

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Speaker 1: the idea of women walking around these bunny costumes was

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Speaker 1: I mean just kind of kitchy to begin with, but

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Speaker 1: not very scandalous. No, yeah, how cheesy was it. It

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Speaker 1: was so cheesy that they actually started bringing in male

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Speaker 1: rabbits who did not who did not wear tails or ears.

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Speaker 1: They had different kind of uniform And this is when

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Speaker 1: they tried to Um, Playboy tried to rebrand its clubs

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Speaker 1: because the clubs lost something like three million dollars. They

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Speaker 1: were failing so hard and they were trying to attract

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Speaker 1: a broader female clientele. So they bring in these, uh,

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Speaker 1: these male servers to accompany the female servers, and they

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Speaker 1: wore an array of costumes, including sleeveless tuxedo shirts, um,

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Speaker 1: some kind of wrestling unitard hot and then my favorite,

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Speaker 1: which was described as sort of yachting cap that at

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Speaker 1: the time was most closely associated with Darryl Dragon of

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Speaker 1: Captain and Neil is there. So wait, were these all

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Speaker 1: these all word at the same time? Because I'm hoping not,

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Speaker 1: because when I think of a sleeveless touch tuxedo shirt.

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Speaker 1: I think of Chris Farley and Patrick Swayzy and SNL.

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Speaker 1: So maybe just some you know, it could be over.

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Speaker 1: They could be the Unitard over the sleeveless shirt with

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Speaker 1: a jaunty captain into Neil angele Um. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: the Empire Club in New York City did not do

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Speaker 1: so well, right, Yeah, Heathan Lounds actually agreed that they'd

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Speaker 1: become too successful. They sort of watered it down. They

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Speaker 1: lowered the prices so you know, Joe Schmoke could walk

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Speaker 1: on end and be sitting next to some fancy pants guy.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, they just tried to be all things to

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Speaker 1: all people. They changed up the menu. There was something

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Speaker 1: about frozen stickers bars that makes me think of George Costanza. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, the the last American club closed in nine eight,

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Speaker 1: and that was in Lansing, Michigan, which actually surprised me. Lansing.

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Speaker 1: That says a lot about sort of how how much

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Speaker 1: the Playboy Club spiraled into this just kind of cheesy,

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Speaker 1: you know, sexy Applebee's rip off because they started to

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Speaker 1: you know, like you said, they oversaturated their own market,

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Speaker 1: so they're left with places like Lansing. Hey, no offense,

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Speaker 1: no offense to all right, don't mess with the mitten.

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Speaker 1: And then the last international club close in n not

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Speaker 1: than in two thousand six they reopen and yeah in

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and everything comes back around. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping that the avocado green doesn't come back around. I

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Speaker 1: hope it stays. Keep it cheesy, keep it, keep it cheesy, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or or you know. Philis Stiller talked about how helf

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Speaker 1: was the only person she knew who would actually hang

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Speaker 1: rugs on the wall and were orange fury shag rugs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think if there is one, if there

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Speaker 1: is one positive thing that we can say about the

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Speaker 1: history of the Playboy clubs, especially in in the sixties. UM,

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Speaker 1: aside from some of the bunnies who reported making a

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Speaker 1: ton of money, making more than their father's making more

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Speaker 1: than men at the time, that's that's great for them,

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Speaker 1: and we gotta, you know, we gotta give it to

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Speaker 1: hef Um. He was very pro civil rights, and he

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Speaker 1: incorporated black writers into his magazine, black performers on his

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Speaker 1: TV shows and doing stand up and music at the clubs.

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Speaker 1: And also, um, there were black bunnies as well, although

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Speaker 1: they were chocolate bunnies, which is very derogatory, and they

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Speaker 1: actually referenced that I noticed you in that first episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it almost seems I was watching the first episode, and

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Speaker 1: I doubt I will watch anymore of the Playboy Club.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like they actually lifted a lot from

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Speaker 1: Gloria Steinham's essay because she mentions this red head with

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Speaker 1: a baby voice in her essay, and there was a

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Speaker 1: red head with a baby boys in the show. But

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Speaker 1: obviously the redhead has a very intricate storyline. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll never know what happens. And lots of secrets, so

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Speaker 1: many secrets. Where do they keep them in those tiny costumes? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know? Actually yeah. Speaking of the show, one NBC

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Speaker 1: exact calls it a fun soap opera, and the show's

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Speaker 1: executive producer says it's about empowering these women to be

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Speaker 1: whatever they want to be. And you know, I've I've

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Speaker 1: heard you have nurse say similar things about about bunnies

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Speaker 1: and about playmates. Um, I'm not you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: entirely on board with that, assessed note. I mean, do

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Speaker 1: I think that I think that it's a little overblown

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Speaker 1: to be honest, to call for boycotting the Playboy Club

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Speaker 1: simply because you know, if if we're going to put

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Speaker 1: our effort behind um, you know, boycotting things on television

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Speaker 1: that portray women poorly. I think that there is just

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Speaker 1: a menu of reality television shows that should get the

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Speaker 1: acts first. But I also see where Steinum is coming

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Speaker 1: from in terms of not wanting to sort of glorify

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Speaker 1: and fetishize this very misogynistic chapter. Right, yeah, and history, Yeah,

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00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: you're you're they're glamorizing these clubs that made women walk

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Speaker 1: around and bathing seeds basically, but they're also sort of

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Speaker 1: glamorizing a time in history that why why are we

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Speaker 1: going back and and being like, oh my god, this

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00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: was so amazing. At least Madmen, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: a little more it shows sort of the underbelly maybe,

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Speaker 1: whereas maybe the Playboy Club is like, oh yeah, everything

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00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: was great in the sixties. It was so it was

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00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: just covered in and satin and glitter and everything costs

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Speaker 1: a dollar fifty. Yeah. Well, there was when I when

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Speaker 1: I mentioned on Facebook that we were going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the Playboy Club history, there was a lot of response.

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Speaker 1: People seemed pretty excited about this so please send in

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00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: your thoughts mom stuff at al stuffwork dot com is

400
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: our email address, or you can head over to Facebook

401
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: or write something on our wall. And we got a

402
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: couple of listener emails here to read in the meantime already.

403
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: This is from a gentleman who would like to remain anonymous.

404
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: He says, I'm a diagnosed narcissist and a dark triad personality.

405
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 1: I've been involved in the seduction community, officially teaching pick

406
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: up for about a year, and as a student and

407
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: one who researched many of the methods for much longer.

408
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: I never had a problem picking up women before I

409
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: encounter the community, but have used it to hone my tactics.

410
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 1: What I wanted to share with you is that this

411
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: seems to be the goal of many of the pu

412
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: A pu A pick up artist programs to turn your

413
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: average person into a narcissist. This is the hardest part

414
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: about teaching this material, and I often wonder if my

415
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: students are really more confident after learning this stuff or

416
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: either nursing a new crutch validation through women or turning

417
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Speaker 1: into actors on a stage. Thanks very much for the

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00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: love that one here from Pete also about our episode

419
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Speaker 1: on pickup artists, and he writes that one of the

420
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: flaws in most all of the systems they're trying to

421
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: sell is that the basic assumption these guys make is

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00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: that women are all the same. After all, if I

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Speaker 1: started address like some seventies temper rejec and putting money

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00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: and putting women down, I'd probably attract some women in

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00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: much the same way that flashing a bunch of money

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00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: will get some women. However, neither of these methods seem

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00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: to likely attract the kind of women who I would

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00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: like to spend time with. I decided to ditch to

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Speaker 1: pick up artists and focus on the information I learned

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00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: from real researchers. The conclusion I came to was that

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Speaker 1: men simply aren't taught how to actually attract a woman,

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Speaker 1: especially in the last several decades, where the rules of

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00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: the game have been significantly in flux for various social

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Speaker 1: and economic reasons. Unfortunately, it is made finding love a

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00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: far more difficult task, which is why I pick up artists,

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00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: guys and dating sites have been able to make a

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Speaker 1: truckload of money. Have I been more successful in finding love? Well? No,

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00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: and fortunately I'm still looking for love in all the

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00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: wrong places. However, I can assure you that if I do,

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00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: it won't be because of the pickup artists and their

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Speaker 1: bad advice. You go, well, you go, dude, I hope.

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00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: Let's find this boy love. See pee email email back

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Speaker 1: c See Caroline, you got you got a matchmaker on

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