Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booths Podcast. Uh. I want to build you
Speaker 1: up brick by brick edition as I discussed the Bengals
Speaker 1: offseason moves with one of my favorite NFL reporters at
Speaker 1: d D King Kabwala from the NFL Network. And then
Speaker 1: we're less than a month away from the NFL Draft
Speaker 1: and I'll check in with Land Zerline, a draft analyst
Speaker 1: for NFL Network who has written more than four hundred
Speaker 1: profiles of this year's prospects for NFL dot Com. The
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate
Speaker 1: Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free
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Speaker 1: or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's
Speaker 1: the greatest thing since brown sugar on oatmeal. I've been
Speaker 1: on an oatmeal for breakfast kick lately, usually topped with bananas, blueberries,
Speaker 1: sliced almonds and some brown sugar, And it occurs to
Speaker 1: me that I don't use brown sugar for anything else.
Speaker 1: My wife tells me it's a common ingredient in baking,
Speaker 1: so maybe I've been enjoying it without knowing it. But
Speaker 1: for me, brown sugar is like a Lugie in baseball,
Speaker 1: a left handed, one out guy. Baseball curbed the use
Speaker 1: of Lugi's when it adopted the three batter minimum for
Speaker 1: leaf pitchers a few years ago. But as long as
Speaker 1: there's oatmeal, there's a place in my heart and gut
Speaker 1: for brown sugar. Now, let's get to this week's guests.
Speaker 1: If you watch NFL Network, you're familiar with Add Kin Kabwala,
Speaker 1: who does an outstanding job of covering the league in
Speaker 1: general and the four teams in the AFC North in particular.
Speaker 1: I caught up with add this week to discuss the
Speaker 1: Bengals offseason moves and why she describes last year's Super
Speaker 1: Bowl team as infectiously fun. Add what do you think
Speaker 1: of the Bengals offseason moves in free agency, particularly the
Speaker 1: addition of the three offensive line tremendous? Tremendous because we
Speaker 1: knew that no matter what Zach Taylor said about giving
Speaker 1: his offensive line credit, and it is valid. Of course,
Speaker 1: you have two thousand yard receivers, You've got a third
Speaker 1: receiver who almost has a thousand yards, You've got a
Speaker 1: thousand yard rusher. Yes, the offensive line was doing a job,
Speaker 1: but clearly that was the upgrade that was necessary, and
Speaker 1: to get three starters in there and to not change
Speaker 1: the way that you do business. Remember, the Bengals are
Speaker 1: one of the few teams that doesn't like to guarantee
Speaker 1: money beyond the first year of a deal, and they
Speaker 1: didn't have to to get three great players who are
Speaker 1: going to step in, who are going to start, who
Speaker 1: have all of the leadership attributes that you want, who
Speaker 1: have long hist is of being great teammates, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, Dan has an incredibly important piece of what
Speaker 1: the magic of this pass Bengals team was was having
Speaker 1: that chemistry, I mean tremendous all around. What am I
Speaker 1: says to say that's negative? Nothing negative required. Did you
Speaker 1: view improving the offensive line, fixing the offensive line, whatever
Speaker 1: term you want to use, as kind of a litmus
Speaker 1: test for the Bengals to show that they were committed
Speaker 1: to do whatever it takes. I think that we saw
Speaker 1: a year ago that they were I think we've seen
Speaker 1: over the past few years the way that they have
Speaker 1: approached free agency, the successes that they've had in free agency,
Speaker 1: and their willingness to pay in free agency have all
Speaker 1: indicated that this is a team that recognizes you can't
Speaker 1: keep doing business the same exact way that you always
Speaker 1: have to some degree beyond the way that you write contracts.
Speaker 1: And then I think that the success of last year
Speaker 1: was so intoxicating, so infectious. You saw the way that
Speaker 1: city was so galvanized by the way that this team played.
Speaker 1: How do you not want more of that? And you
Speaker 1: recognize you can't sit on your laurels and think you're
Speaker 1: going to repeat. That's just not the way the National
Speaker 1: Football League works. That's with the way that anything works.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't surprising to me at all that the
Speaker 1: Bengals and Duke Tobin went out there and were indeed aggressive.
Speaker 1: What was maybe a little surprising is how successful they
Speaker 1: were without having to be grossly splashy. You know, there
Speaker 1: was no obsequious moves here. It was just sort of
Speaker 1: like a methodical approach to go and get what you
Speaker 1: want in a very very reasonable way. We're chatting with
Speaker 1: a dd King Kawala from the NFL Network. You just
Speaker 1: used the term infectious, and you tweeted after the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl that this team was infectiously fun. What was it
Speaker 1: about this team that made you feel that way. I
Speaker 1: think it was the energy. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: it is the youth, quite frankly, you know, and it's funny. Dan.
Speaker 1: I'll just say that this is conversation I had with
Speaker 1: Zach Taylor just last week at the Cincinnati Pro Day,
Speaker 1: that these guys are kind of too young to get
Speaker 1: big heads, you know, Jamar Chase, t Higgins. They're out
Speaker 1: there and then having a good time. They're not worried
Speaker 1: about being divas at this moment. I do think that
Speaker 1: both Jamar Chase and t Higgins are very very strong,
Speaker 1: good young men with good support systems, and I don't
Speaker 1: foresee big heads coming in the future. So let me
Speaker 1: at least say that. But I've done this for a
Speaker 1: long time now, more than a dozen years. I have
Speaker 1: covered the National Football League. I've been around incredibly successful teams.
Speaker 1: I've been around not so successful teams. I've been around
Speaker 1: teams that really enjoyed each other. And the thing about
Speaker 1: this Bengals team was you genuinely felt that they enjoyed
Speaker 1: coming to work, and they enjoyed coming to work with
Speaker 1: each other. And as somebody who's spent the last twelve
Speaker 1: years loving going to work, I get it. You see
Speaker 1: it right in, you know, when someone is not going
Speaker 1: through the motions, when someone is not simply connected collecting
Speaker 1: a paycheck, but someone likes being around their colleagues. And
Speaker 1: that's exactly what that was. So I think the energy,
Speaker 1: the youthfulness, there's always something special when there are no expectations,
Speaker 1: and I think that's the big question, you know, And
Speaker 1: we saw this with the Cleveland Browns two years ago.
Speaker 1: The Cleveland Browns in a COVID year, with a new
Speaker 1: head coach in Kevin Stefanski, a new offense, a new defense, everything,
Speaker 1: there really weren't many expectations for them, despite the talent
Speaker 1: on their roster, simply because of how the previous year
Speaker 1: had gone and because you know, they were the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 1: And so there's a freeness to the way that you
Speaker 1: approach every week when nobody expects much of you. And
Speaker 1: then we saw what happened last year with the Browns
Speaker 1: when much was indeed expected. So now let's see what
Speaker 1: happens with the Bengals when clearly a lot is expected,
Speaker 1: and how do you follow up the season like last
Speaker 1: year in a playoff run like last year without expectation.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you said that because I say to
Speaker 1: people all the time that rooting for a highly successful
Speaker 1: team is great under any circumstances, but when it's a
Speaker 1: total surprise, there's nothing better. That's the best it gets
Speaker 1: as a sports fan. When you expect your team to
Speaker 1: be here and it winds up being way up there, right,
Speaker 1: that's as good as it gets. And that's what it is,
Speaker 1: because it's a it's a magical new experience. When you
Speaker 1: ask about being infectious, I think there is a piece.
Speaker 1: You know, you look at guys like Tyler Boyd and
Speaker 1: Jesse Bates and Joe Mixon who put in the time
Speaker 1: and they've been there and they have I hate to
Speaker 1: call it suffered, but suffered. You know, they've been through
Speaker 1: these terrible losses. They've been the laughing stock, they've been
Speaker 1: kind of the easy win on other teams schedule, and
Speaker 1: so for them, there's a great appreciation to every moment
Speaker 1: that's magical and special as opposed to taking it for granted.
Speaker 1: And when you're in a team that wins all the time,
Speaker 1: when you're in a team that expects to be in
Speaker 1: the super Bowl every year, then maybe it's just not
Speaker 1: the same. I'd like to find out, But well, you
Speaker 1: can get back to me. Maybe you can let me
Speaker 1: know on that one, no question about it. We're chatting
Speaker 1: with a D D King Kabwala from the NFL Network.
Speaker 1: How much do you tribute that Bengals spirit, the desire
Speaker 1: to go to work every day to Joe Burrow? Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I think I'm reminded of standing in the
Speaker 1: tunnel the bowels of the stadiums in Kansas City, in
Speaker 1: the bowls of the stadium in Kansas City, right after
Speaker 1: the AFC title game, and you know, verybody had been
Speaker 1: smoking cigars, and Brian Callahan, the offensive coordinator, walks out,
Speaker 1: and just what a tremendous guy he and I just
Speaker 1: ended up standing there talking for a good fifteen twenty
Speaker 1: minutes before he got on the bus. And Joe Barrow
Speaker 1: walked out at one moment and he just looked at
Speaker 1: me and he said, he is the cause of everything,
Speaker 1: and it's not just the way he plays, it's his approach.
Speaker 1: This is what they said about Tom Brady for years.
Speaker 1: When your best player is your hardest worker, is your
Speaker 1: most committed, focused guy, that's only a good thing for
Speaker 1: a locker room. And so I think that Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: is the player that makes everybody better. I think Joe
Speaker 1: Barrow not only in the way that he approaches his job,
Speaker 1: but what he's able to do on the field. He
Speaker 1: gets the best out of everyone. He is that smart,
Speaker 1: he is that driven. He does indeed have that chip
Speaker 1: on his shoulder, and I mean it's everything. I think
Speaker 1: it's everything. And it's interesting too, Dan, because right now
Speaker 1: in the city of Pittsburgh, you have Mike Tomlin kind
Speaker 1: of saying, even in this day and age, I think
Speaker 1: I can win without a top flight, upper tier quarterback.
Speaker 1: I think that I can win with a dominant defense
Speaker 1: and a great run game and a quarterback who does enough.
Speaker 1: But then you've got a whole rest of the league,
Speaker 1: which we've seen in this crazy free agency and this
Speaker 1: whole quarterback carousel, you have a lot of people saying, no,
Speaker 1: you're not going to win unless you have that elite,
Speaker 1: upper tier quarterback. And that's why we see all these
Speaker 1: teams kind of mortgaging their futures, let's call it, and
Speaker 1: trading away all these draft picks to go get that
Speaker 1: top flight guy. And so it'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: how that plays out. And what's the truth. You know,
Speaker 1: we heard Eric da Costa the Ravens GM just at
Speaker 1: the Combine a few weeks ago. Daniel were there. Eric
Speaker 1: DaCosta said, I don't think that you're going to see
Speaker 1: another team like the Ravens in two thousand, when you
Speaker 1: won on the backs of a dominant defense and an
Speaker 1: okay quarterback, no offense. Trent Dilfer. Trent Dilfer's got the ring.
Speaker 1: He doesn't care what anybody says. I don't think you
Speaker 1: comended that I said that, but I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 1: Trent Dilfer is not you know anyway, I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: zip it before I have been that. Anybody moving on. Well,
Speaker 1: Mike Tomlin did go eight and eight with Duck Hodges
Speaker 1: as his primary quarterback a couple of years ago, so
Speaker 1: I guess he can win. The question is can you
Speaker 1: win it all? I suspect the Steelers will be in
Speaker 1: the mix to at least possibly break five hundred with
Speaker 1: Mitchell Trubisky as their quarterback. But I'm not sure many
Speaker 1: people think that they're going to bring back a seven
Speaker 1: super Bowl ring. But you never know. With the Steelers,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. And it's such an interesting question, Dan,
Speaker 1: I have this. I have a friend in Cleveland, Ken Carmen,
Speaker 1: who has has me on his radio show very regularly,
Speaker 1: and about a year ago I posited this to him
Speaker 1: and to his listeners. Do you want would you rather
Speaker 1: that your team is in it every single year that
Speaker 1: by the time you get to week seventeen, weeks eighteen,
Speaker 1: your team is still alive? Or would you sacrifice a
Speaker 1: few horrible, awful, irrelevant years just to get to that
Speaker 1: promised land? You know? Are you the Eagles and you
Speaker 1: win a super Bowl and then you're kind of irrelevant
Speaker 1: for a period of time. Or you're the Bengals and
Speaker 1: you've suffered and you've suffered, but you get to go
Speaker 1: to the super Bowl and then who knows what happens
Speaker 1: the Steelers. Let's that Duck Hodges year or two and
Speaker 1: nineteen Ben Roethlisberger gets hurt Week two, it's Mason Rudolph
Speaker 1: and Duck Hodges, Dug Duck Hodges, who couldn't make a
Speaker 1: single roster in the spring. When a thousand players are
Speaker 1: on the NFL rosters, Duck Hodges almost gets them into
Speaker 1: the playoffs. It goes down to the last week of
Speaker 1: the season. And that's what Mike Tomlin teams are. Mike
Speaker 1: Tomlin teams haven't won a playoff game and I don't know,
Speaker 1: five six years, they haven't been back to the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl in ten a dozen years. You know, they haven't
Speaker 1: been an elite team in the sense of being playing
Speaker 1: in February in a long time. But they're always a
Speaker 1: part of the conversation in December. Is that what you want?
Speaker 1: Do you want a team that always competes? Or are
Speaker 1: you okay if your team is really crappy for a
Speaker 1: few years, but hey, you got to go to the
Speaker 1: super Bowl. I guess it would be the length of
Speaker 1: the crappy period. If it's two or three years of
Speaker 1: crappy football for the chance to win a Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: I think probably most people would take that. Who do
Speaker 1: you think's winning the off season in the AFC North?
Speaker 1: This is so funny because I you know, the older
Speaker 1: you get, the more you kind of rely on these
Speaker 1: cliches so you get cynical and so like I love
Speaker 1: in the spring this say, it's football in shorts. Like,
Speaker 1: don't ask me who looks good at OTAs, Please don't
Speaker 1: ask me who looks good at Rickey Minicamp. It's football
Speaker 1: in shorts. So similarly, who's winning the off season is?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a paper champion. I love that
Speaker 1: the Bengals really had only one major area of need
Speaker 1: and they addressed it, and they addressed it so well.
Speaker 1: I still sort of have a question about Jesse Bates.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see you speaking to members of the
Speaker 1: Bengals organization. Nobody seems to think that it is a
Speaker 1: non negotiable deal breaker if Jesse Bates has to play
Speaker 1: on the tag. At least what I've been told is
Speaker 1: that they have heard nothing from Bates or his camp
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't play on the tag. But I think
Speaker 1: it would be nice to lock him up. I think
Speaker 1: everybody always feels good to feel that there's a commitment
Speaker 1: to them, and you just get more out of somebody
Speaker 1: in that way. So I'd like to see that piece
Speaker 1: of business done. The Browns, Oh boy, let's come back
Speaker 1: to the Browns. The Steelers. I really like this quarterback pickup.
Speaker 1: We knew that the Steelers weren't going to trade a
Speaker 1: ton of draft picks. We knew they weren't going to
Speaker 1: be in some crazy sweepstakes right now. The Steelers do
Speaker 1: need a starting strong safety. They would like to lock
Speaker 1: up Fitzpatrick. They're in the process of that. The Steelers
Speaker 1: needed to upgrade their offensive line. They did. You'd still
Speaker 1: like to see who else the Steelers could bring in
Speaker 1: at receiver perhaps, but it's a well built roster, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit older on defense, especially up front.
Speaker 1: So that's a situation where I expect these players to
Speaker 1: play a certain way. But again, what happens at the
Speaker 1: age of thirty four, I don't know. So Okay, that's
Speaker 1: the Steelers. I think so far, it's been a good offseason.
Speaker 1: Let's see what they do in the draft, especially since
Speaker 1: the Steelers generally that's where they like to build their team.
Speaker 1: The Ravens well, the Ravens are healthy. The port Ravens
Speaker 1: last year, we're missing twenty starters and key contributors. I
Speaker 1: think that that's all really good. The Ravens still need
Speaker 1: another pass rusher, and the Browns well, Deshaun Watson is
Speaker 1: a is a very very very loaded topic, and if
Speaker 1: we just take it from an availability standpoint, we don't
Speaker 1: know what Deshaun Watson's availability will be, and so that
Speaker 1: clearly impacts what he is able to give them. So,
Speaker 1: having run through all of that at this current moment,
Speaker 1: knowing that this is just a paper certificate and doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean anything, I would say the Bengals won the offseason.
Speaker 1: A couple more questions for dit King Kabwall and I'll
Speaker 1: let you go. You attended you sees Pro day last week?
Speaker 1: They had eight players at the combine, they had six
Speaker 1: invited to the Senior Bowl. What or who stood out
Speaker 1: to you from being at that pro day? Okay, so
Speaker 1: everybody was so nice, including the head coach. It was
Speaker 1: just this pleasure to be around a group that again,
Speaker 1: it's the same thing to the Bengals a little bit
Speaker 1: wide eyed. You know, they had never had a Pro
Speaker 1: day like this. I don't think they never had. They
Speaker 1: haven't even had a pro day. You would know better
Speaker 1: than me. Did they have one every year? But I'm
Speaker 1: going to say that more NFL personnel attended last week's
Speaker 1: Pro Day than all of the other ones combined that
Speaker 1: I've ever been to well, I really really really loved
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter's demeanor. I loved how take charge he was.
Speaker 1: I loved his confidence. I loved how when a receiver
Speaker 1: dropped a ball, he immediately ran to the receiver and
Speaker 1: patted him on the back and said that's okay. It
Speaker 1: again recalls a story that Zach Taylor told me. Zach
Speaker 1: Taylor was the Bearcat's offensive coordinator who ultimately worked out
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter and kind of got him his first offer,
Speaker 1: got him the one of two Division one offers that
Speaker 1: he had. And what Zach told me is that that
Speaker 1: year he worked out probably about twelve to fifteen quarterbacks
Speaker 1: all over the country. Every single one of them had
Speaker 1: a quarterback coach who ran the workout. But Desmond Ritter
Speaker 1: was sort of a very late workout, you know. As
Speaker 1: you know, he got the offer a while during the
Speaker 1: Kentucky Derby, so it was a late workout. It was
Speaker 1: sort of last minute. It was almost like Taylor was
Speaker 1: doing it as a favor to somebody else on the
Speaker 1: staff who said, maybe you should check him out, and
Speaker 1: so he said, okay, okay, I'll do it. At six
Speaker 1: am and Desmond Ritter had no quarterbacks coach, and Desmond
Speaker 1: Ritter gathered a group of his teammates and friends, convinced
Speaker 1: these seventeen year old kids to show up on a
Speaker 1: field at six am, and then he ran them through
Speaker 1: the entire workout. And Zach told me that he was
Speaker 1: the only quarterback that did that. And when you're looking
Speaker 1: for all those intangibles, you're looking for those leadership traits,
Speaker 1: you're looking for the guy who's going to be kind
Speaker 1: of the face of your outfit, that's everything that you want.
Speaker 1: I thought that he was quite frankly, a little bit
Speaker 1: stiff when he had a straight drop back. If you
Speaker 1: look at the way he holds the ball, it just
Speaker 1: doesn't seem as relaxed in his hand. And I thought
Speaker 1: that he looked better when he was actually in motion
Speaker 1: when he was having to I don't want to even
Speaker 1: call it scramble, but maybe roll out a little bit
Speaker 1: or roll right and then throw a left. That almost
Speaker 1: looked a little bit more natural. So I think that
Speaker 1: that's interesting. I talked to quite a few coaches that
Speaker 1: day who are much smarter than me of figuring out
Speaker 1: footwork and mechanics and things like that, and several felt that,
Speaker 1: you know, his inaccuracy is a little bit confusing because
Speaker 1: there's nothing very obviously wrong. There's nothing in his footwork
Speaker 1: that screams, hey, this is a glitch we can fix.
Speaker 1: And then several said it's really not a big deal
Speaker 1: and they think it's something they can work with. So again,
Speaker 1: I think it's sort of unless you're a Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: you're often beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 1: He told me. Desmond told me that he is expecting
Speaker 1: to be a first round pick and if he is not,
Speaker 1: he would be really disappointed. And so we'll see what
Speaker 1: comes of that. And then of course, I you know,
Speaker 1: I loved the corners, love the safety, just good kids,
Speaker 1: good kids all around, and even the running back room forward,
Speaker 1: very quiet but nice, nice young man. Were you charmed
Speaker 1: by Sauce Gardner like the rest of us, it was.
Speaker 1: I was a little disappointed that he didn't work out,
Speaker 1: but he just was very, very friendly. We talked about
Speaker 1: the suit that he wore to the combine, and I
Speaker 1: said that I live by the idea that you dressed
Speaker 1: for the job you want, not the one that you have.
Speaker 1: And I also really really live by look good, feel good,
Speaker 1: feel good, playing good. And so we communed over that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very great young man. And you know he got to
Speaker 1: go to dinner twice that night. He went out with
Speaker 1: the Saint Sam the Giants the night before at least,
Speaker 1: so crafty move. Yeah, serious, very crafty move. And it
Speaker 1: was the last time you got two people to buy
Speaker 1: you dinner in the same night. And that has never
Speaker 1: happened yet, but I remain hopeful. Maybe the next time
Speaker 1: I'm in town day I can do that. We'll tell
Speaker 1: Duke Tobin to take you out. I'll take you for
Speaker 1: the appetizers. He can buy you to dinner a deity.
Speaker 1: This is and awesome and we appreciate your time. Thank you,
Speaker 1: thanks so much, Dan, I appreciate it. Okay, Duke Tobin,
Speaker 1: you heard it from Adity. She's getting the appetizers and
Speaker 1: you are buying dinner. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented
Speaker 1: by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play fantasy football game.
Speaker 1: This past season, Ultimate Bengals awarded a weekly winner during
Speaker 1: the course of the year with tickets, autograph merchandise, and
Speaker 1: money can't buy experiences all up for grabs. Find Ultimate
Speaker 1: Bengals in the App Store and Google Play. Now we
Speaker 1: turn our attention to the draft. The NFL Network will
Speaker 1: provide live coverage of the draft from Las Vegas on
Speaker 1: April twenty eighth, twenty ninth, and thirtieth, and this week
Speaker 1: I spoke to draft analyst lanzerline Ranch. You'd done a
Speaker 1: couple of mock drafts in early February. You had the
Speaker 1: Bengals selecting Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum. In early March, Tulsa
Speaker 1: offensive liman Tyler Smith. Now that the Bengals have signed
Speaker 1: three offensive linemen in free agency, are you still thinking
Speaker 1: offensive line? No. I do think that the Bengals could
Speaker 1: could take a look at the offensive line for more
Speaker 1: competition at the you know, potentially draft for more depth.
Speaker 1: You know, a guy who can play center guard, maybe
Speaker 1: a guy like Luke Gayticky out of Central Michigan. But no,
Speaker 1: it's not an immediate need for the team right now,
Speaker 1: so I don't expect them to use, you know, one
Speaker 1: of their first couple picks on offensive line. I think
Speaker 1: they've done a pretty good job, definitely a serviceable job.
Speaker 1: I mean they're better along the interior. Jackson Carman needs
Speaker 1: to play well. You want to have you know, Jonah
Speaker 1: needs a good season, of course, but I do think
Speaker 1: it is intriguing the concept of Jonah Williams potentially sliding
Speaker 1: inside the center at some point and having another tackle
Speaker 1: out there. But that's not something that I think is
Speaker 1: going to be a priority this year. I want to
Speaker 1: get back to Tyler Linderbaum because right now the Bengals
Speaker 1: have Ted Carriss scheduled to play center, but he's obviously
Speaker 1: played both guard spots in the past. If Tyler Linderbaum,
Speaker 1: we're still there at number thirty one, and I know
Speaker 1: most draft experts, yourself included, I think he's a much
Speaker 1: better player than that in terms of where he slots
Speaker 1: in this draft class. Would that be a no brainer
Speaker 1: If he's still there, No, And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 1: I think number one, he is a very specific type
Speaker 1: of center. He's a zone scheme center. I think when
Speaker 1: you look at the Cincinnati Bengals right now, you're just
Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl. So what the Bengals are going
Speaker 1: to be looking at is what are moves that we
Speaker 1: can make to get us over the hump? Now? How
Speaker 1: do we how do we win a Super Bowl? Not
Speaker 1: just compete? Now you're at a different level. How do
Speaker 1: we win a Super Bowl? And I think the way
Speaker 1: you have to approach at is taking a look at
Speaker 1: all the competition you're likely to face. And the starts
Speaker 1: with a very challenging AFC inside your own division. To
Speaker 1: Shaun Watson is now there, that's going to be a challenge.
Speaker 1: The Ravens are going to be healthier this year. They
Speaker 1: should have a better running game because their running backs
Speaker 1: are going to be back. And then you look at
Speaker 1: what's going on in the AFC West. I mean that
Speaker 1: place is completely loaded over there in the West. Just
Speaker 1: quarterbacks golore in the a f C West. So I
Speaker 1: think when you look at you know five we take
Speaker 1: all the a FC West four teams. You take a
Speaker 1: look at the the Cleveland Browns, there's another quarterback and
Speaker 1: then I mentioned Ravens. That's more running back related. But
Speaker 1: but you are going to get a healthy Lamar Jackson back.
Speaker 1: What I'm telling you is you've got to compete against
Speaker 1: quarterbacks who can throw the football. And so the concern
Speaker 1: you have now is making sure that you're loaded up
Speaker 1: on the back end. And I think that's why I
Speaker 1: think cornerback would be difficult to pass up on or
Speaker 1: even an interior rush or a guy that could either
Speaker 1: start right away or come off the bench, and a
Speaker 1: guy who has some juice up the field, a rush passers,
Speaker 1: so getting the quarterback or keeping the quarterback from from
Speaker 1: from completing passes because you've got tight coverage, that should
Speaker 1: be I would imagine the focus when you look at
Speaker 1: the Bengals. That's that's that's the next step for Cincinnati
Speaker 1: is is tightening up. But the good thing is you
Speaker 1: just don't have a ton of holes on the roster.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's areas of concern to fill, but it's
Speaker 1: not massive, massive holes. So I think that what Cincinnati
Speaker 1: can do is go in there with a very clear
Speaker 1: head and not be panicky about a particular position. Let's
Speaker 1: assume the Bengals stay at number thirty one and you
Speaker 1: mentioned cornerback as a possibility. Who are some guys that
Speaker 1: you think are, if not likely, have a decent chance
Speaker 1: of still being available at thirty one at the cornerback
Speaker 1: position that you would be interested in. I think it
Speaker 1: starts with Andrew Booth, if he would be there, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if he'll be there at
Speaker 1: thirty one, but if so, Andrew Booth, a cornerback out
Speaker 1: of Clemson. To me, I think he's the twenty two
Speaker 1: twenty three ranked player in this year's draft class. So
Speaker 1: I think Andrew Booth is a guy that would fit
Speaker 1: the mold. Another guy at that particular spot, and maybe
Speaker 1: you want to you may want to trade back also
Speaker 1: as another option. But Kyer Elam could be the thirty
Speaker 1: thirty first pick. I think Kyrie Elam has a chance
Speaker 1: to get into the first round. I think he's teetering
Speaker 1: on the brink of first and second round, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, a classic case of a guy who might
Speaker 1: be considered at thirty one and then beyond that, you
Speaker 1: know guys that fit I think would include Kyler Gordon
Speaker 1: out of Washington, who has a lot of upside but
Speaker 1: could but could really play the role of cornerback four
Speaker 1: and learn from the guys who are in front of him,
Speaker 1: and learn from the coaching staff over Washington. He's got
Speaker 1: some tremendous traits. Did not run as fast as Indianapolis
Speaker 1: as I expected, but he's a very, very explosive athlete.
Speaker 1: You've got a guy in the middle rounds like Zion McCullum,
Speaker 1: who tested great out of Sam Houston, m Cam Taylor
Speaker 1: Britt if you're okay with a little bit a physical
Speaker 1: press corner, who is Maybe he's not a he's not
Speaker 1: a short corner. I think he's about five to eleven.
Speaker 1: But he does have some there are some some highs
Speaker 1: and lows to his game. But I think when you
Speaker 1: start getting it past the first group of cornerbacks, it
Speaker 1: gets a little dice here. As I look at the
Speaker 1: list now, I see some I see guys that I
Speaker 1: consider Josh Williams from Fayetteville, Vincent and Gray from Michigan.
Speaker 1: These are guys who are more developmental. They have traits,
Speaker 1: They have the potential to become pretty good cornerbacks down
Speaker 1: the road. But I think it's going to take a
Speaker 1: little more time. So you know, depending on how you
Speaker 1: view this, do you want to get help immediately or
Speaker 1: you're looking for building that core down the road for
Speaker 1: two and three years. I think that really will have
Speaker 1: It will be a determining factor in terms of how
Speaker 1: they approach the cornerback position. Very specifically for talking NFL
Speaker 1: network draft analysts lands Zerline, you can follow them on
Speaker 1: Twitter at lands Zerline z I E R L E
Speaker 1: I N How about defensive lineman that could be there
Speaker 1: at thirty one, particularly interior defensive lineman. Well, the interior
Speaker 1: line spot is a little You've got some depth, but
Speaker 1: it's not high end depth this year. So when you
Speaker 1: start talking about defensive tackles, and I know that's a
Speaker 1: I know that's a big lead. I'm pulling up my
Speaker 1: all my d tackles here because I only have four
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty players to sit through that I've written
Speaker 1: up already. But yeah, that's it. Only only four hundred,
Speaker 1: only four hundred and twenty as as I've called my
Speaker 1: defensive tackles. But I think what Cincinnati needs now, that's
Speaker 1: a position that I can say, I think you want
Speaker 1: some immediate help. I love DJ Reader, love love, love
Speaker 1: what he brings to the table, but I think you
Speaker 1: need a complimentary piece next to him. Some guys you
Speaker 1: could take a look at. I don't think Devantae Wyatt
Speaker 1: is going to be on the board. Logan Hall from
Speaker 1: University of Houston. As a player, he views himself as
Speaker 1: a defensive end. Obviously you don't have a defensive in
Speaker 1: spot open, but he played defensive tackle at the University
Speaker 1: of Houston, so you could look at him, I think
Speaker 1: Travis Jones. If you want a guy that is a
Speaker 1: big time run stuff or to stick next to Reader.
Speaker 1: I mean, no one's running on the Bengals if you've
Speaker 1: got Travis Jones and H and DJ Reader in the
Speaker 1: same and that's Travis Jow'd be a little rich for
Speaker 1: my blood at thirty one. But I could see trading
Speaker 1: back a few spots and grabbing him early in the
Speaker 1: second round because he's just a really, really talented player.
Speaker 1: Once you get past those players. This is what concerns
Speaker 1: me is that I'm not as big a de Marvin
Speaker 1: Leale fan out of Texas A and M. I think
Speaker 1: he's more of a third round player. Perry and Winfrey
Speaker 1: out of Oklahoma had a really good senior ball and
Speaker 1: that's all anyone's talking about, and he tested great, but
Speaker 1: the game tape is really up and down and inconsistent.
Speaker 1: But I do think in terms of, you know, looking
Speaker 1: at him after the first round of Perry and Winfrey
Speaker 1: could make some sense for what Cincinnati likes to do defensively,
Speaker 1: and then I think you started looking at fourth round
Speaker 1: guys like Matthew Butler, who is an upfield rusher. I
Speaker 1: think he's got a lot of talent, but he's not
Speaker 1: somebody you'd look at in the first or second round.
Speaker 1: So I think the problem with the defensive tackle draft
Speaker 1: is that I see death from rounds three to rounds five,
Speaker 1: and I see guys who have upside and the chance
Speaker 1: to become good players, but you're not going to get
Speaker 1: the immediate help more than likely from those positions, and
Speaker 1: you're not going to have guys that I would consider
Speaker 1: to be top fifty players. So I think that's the
Speaker 1: concern when you talk defensive tackle, and I think every team,
Speaker 1: they're general managers and the evaluators have to go into
Speaker 1: the draft and really, let's just call it abcd F
Speaker 1: like at school, you have to go in with a
Speaker 1: grade on every position group, so you know, all right,
Speaker 1: who do we need to be a little more Who
Speaker 1: can we be a little bit more wide open in
Speaker 1: terms of our draft approach with because they're so deep,
Speaker 1: the position so deep, and cornerback would would be a
Speaker 1: little bit deeper. But then a position like defensive tackle,
Speaker 1: if there are guys you really really like, but the
Speaker 1: next group, the tier two and tier three you feel
Speaker 1: like or you have them graded as fourth and fifth
Speaker 1: and sixth round guys. Then you have to make a
Speaker 1: priority of grabbing defensive tackle earlier. And I think for
Speaker 1: the Bengals, potentially grabbing defensive tackle earlier could be the key,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the one of the ways that
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to do that if you want us
Speaker 1: to move up in the draft. And I think going
Speaker 1: from thirty one up into the twenties could help secure
Speaker 1: who knows, I mean, maybe Jordan Davis will last that
Speaker 1: long to defensive tackle out of Georgia because he's not
Speaker 1: really a pass rusher, but he is a dominant run defender,
Speaker 1: and you can always go to your sub rush packages.
Speaker 1: So you know, how you how you see the player,
Speaker 1: the defensive lineman, the interior defensive lineman, how you've seen
Speaker 1: him fitting you on the first two downs and then
Speaker 1: on the rushdown is going to be really critical in
Speaker 1: terms of how the Bengals prioritized defensive tackle. The Bengals
Speaker 1: have had a ton of success in the draft over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Obviously, Joe Burrow, T Higgins,
Speaker 1: Logan Wilson a couple of years ago, Jamar Chase, Evan
Speaker 1: McPherson worked out great in the fifth round last year.
Speaker 1: In general terms, what do you think of when I
Speaker 1: say Bengals and their draft track record. I think it's
Speaker 1: been you know, I think it's been okay. I think
Speaker 1: I think people I think people are too hard on
Speaker 1: the Bengals in general. You know, I hear comments made about, oh,
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis, Oh the Bengals, Oh Andy Dalton. The fact
Speaker 1: is Andy Dalton had success in Cincinnati. Marvin Lewis had success.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the success Bengals fans. You know, it didn't
Speaker 1: get over that hump. But the Bengals have been way
Speaker 1: more competitive than people sometimes give them credit for. And
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why that narrative exists. I think from
Speaker 1: a standpoint of when you look at how the Bengals
Speaker 1: have drafted, and I tend to look at pockets of years,
Speaker 1: I like to look at it over five years, because really,
Speaker 1: once you get past five years, the players from that
Speaker 1: cycle many times are already gone or they've become core players,
Speaker 1: so they've either gone in one direction or the other.
Speaker 1: And when you talk about the players that you just mentioned,
Speaker 1: like Logan Wilson, I was a huge fan of Logan
Speaker 1: and Wilson's coming out of Wyoming. Stape was fantastic. His
Speaker 1: instincts were great. And what you did is you had
Speaker 1: a guy that maybe others would pass on because they said, well,
Speaker 1: it's a small school guy. We don't know if he's
Speaker 1: a great at all of a sudden. You know, the
Speaker 1: good football you saw on tape is the good football
Speaker 1: you see on Sundays. It's it's the same thing. It
Speaker 1: didn't change Jamar Chase. I was a big believer in
Speaker 1: taking Chase over a tackle because the fact was Chase
Speaker 1: had the ability to change games and there wasn't a
Speaker 1: tackle who could change a game for you. Last year.
Speaker 1: You can make do along the offensive line. Now not
Speaker 1: for very long. And obviously it was a huge priority,
Speaker 1: and you know, you might be able to argue that
Speaker 1: if the offensive line was better, the Cincinnati Bengals would
Speaker 1: have won the Super Bowl, which wouldn't have been there
Speaker 1: without Jamar Chase. So that's the point. So this year
Speaker 1: they have gone about addressing it. But I think the
Speaker 1: Bengals from a draft standpoint, there have been some some
Speaker 1: hit or miss selections, obviously, and there have been some
Speaker 1: guys who who have failed, especially in the two thousands
Speaker 1: and into the early two tens. But I think over
Speaker 1: the last five years the Bengals have done a nice
Speaker 1: job of adding not just good football player, but core
Speaker 1: football players, guys that you will build around for years
Speaker 1: to come. Along with Joe Burrow, Joe Mixon as core,
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase is a core. Logan Wilson is a chord.
Speaker 1: Look how Sam Hubbard's done. I mean, Hubbard's done terrific.
Speaker 1: Adding Hendrickson was obviously a great stroke from a free
Speaker 1: agency standpoint, and Jesse Bates another good football player. The
Speaker 1: Bengals are adding good football players, and I think that's
Speaker 1: the real kid guys who love football. That's what you're
Speaker 1: seeing right now in Cincinnati. Final question for NFL Network
Speaker 1: draft analyst Land Zerline. Your father is a former University
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati assistant coach. Right now, the University of Cincinnati
Speaker 1: has eight guys that could get drafted, eight guys that
Speaker 1: were invited to the NFL scouting combine six were invited
Speaker 1: to the Senior Bowl. What do you think of this
Speaker 1: draft class, particularly a Mad Sauce Gardener and Desmond Ritter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a great class. Just had a GM
Speaker 1: text me the other day that he loved you know,
Speaker 1: Alec Pierce thought he was just a really underrated wide
Speaker 1: receiver prospect. I think Curtis Brooks is a little underrated
Speaker 1: frankly along the anterior. But he's your size. But despite
Speaker 1: his size, he's two hundred and eighty seven pounds, but
Speaker 1: he is a whirlwind of disruption along the interior. When
Speaker 1: you look at what Cincinnati has done, you know, Desmond
Speaker 1: Ritter feels like a safe quarterback, really understands the game.
Speaker 1: Has done a nice job of building himself up and
Speaker 1: becoming a very astute and mechanically sound quarterback over the years.
Speaker 1: Sauce Gardner came out of nowhere. I shouldn't say out
Speaker 1: of nowhere. He was a very thin, skinny guy when
Speaker 1: he came in. They did a great job of helping
Speaker 1: to build him up, and I know Kobe Bryant was
Speaker 1: a big part of that, of helping to get him
Speaker 1: to buy into what he needed to buy into. And
Speaker 1: so you see, Kobe Bryant to me, is going to
Speaker 1: be one of the better zone corners in this draft.
Speaker 1: Sauce Gardner has the swagger that you'd like out of
Speaker 1: corners who are going to forget if they made a mistake.
Speaker 1: But he also has the speed and explosiveness and length
Speaker 1: to make plays on a football. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: players in this draft is Brian Cook, the safety who
Speaker 1: I think just has the body type and the demeanor
Speaker 1: of an NFL Safety's physical He's a business only type
Speaker 1: of guy, where he is going to come up and
Speaker 1: really handle business, no matter whether you're ask him to cover,
Speaker 1: whether you ask him to come up and hit and
Speaker 1: support the run. And then you know, as you go
Speaker 1: back a little bit, Sanders and Beavers, of course, we're
Speaker 1: very talented college players who I think have some growth potential.
Speaker 1: From Sanders from a physical growth standpoint, Beavers from a plane,
Speaker 1: I think he can get better as a player when
Speaker 1: he's put into a little different position. So, you know,
Speaker 1: it's amazing that Cincinnati has come this far where you
Speaker 1: have eight draft from prospects. But it also really speaks
Speaker 1: to the fact that drome Ford I didn't even mention.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so many. Yeah, Josh Wile I
Speaker 1: wrote him up. I thought he might come out, and
Speaker 1: he went back to school, which I was glad to see.
Speaker 1: So I think when you look at what Cincinnati's doing
Speaker 1: right now and then you see this many draft prospects
Speaker 1: and you see where they came from, which was the
Speaker 1: final four for college football. I mean it just goes
Speaker 1: to show you you want to get to that level
Speaker 1: of college football, you gotta get and developed guys who
Speaker 1: can end up being pro players. That's typically how it's
Speaker 1: gonna work. Our guest has been Lanzerline four hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty written profiles of the prospects in this year's draft.
Speaker 1: You can find them on NFL dot com. I always
Speaker 1: check them out. It's great stuff. Appreciate your time today
Speaker 1: and keep up the good work. Okay, thanks, Land, says Dad.
Speaker 1: Larry was the offensive line coach at you See for
Speaker 1: four years under Rick Menter, during a stretch where the
Speaker 1: coaching staff included Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, and Rex Ryan
Speaker 1: among others. That's going to do it for this episode
Speaker 1: of The Bengals Booth podcast, presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download
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Speaker 1: to the Bengals Booth podcast.