WEBVTT - The Head and the Heart 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.280 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.320 Studio on I Heart Radio. My name is Jordan Runtag, 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.280 but enough about me. My guest today have just released 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.920 their latest album, Every Shade of Blue, which is one 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:19.040 of the all time great late night records. Introspective, retrospective, imaginative, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.919 and intimate. These are all qualities we've come to know 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.599 and love from the folk pop group, who just celebrated 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.240 the eleventh anniversary of their debut this month. In a sense, 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.680 Every Shade of Blue is a homecoming. Recorded in the 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.199 same Seattle studio they recorded their first two records, but 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:38.080 their growth and pension for musical reinvention remains strong. They're 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.919 latest is packed with lush, cinematic orchestrations and a surplus 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.839 of huge hooks. As the title suggests, the lyrics examine 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.360 the full spectrum of emotion and the degrees to which 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.400 we connect with our friends and loved ones, potent topics 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.840 giving our lengthy period of global disconnection. It's been a 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.560 long year, the wrong year to be left alone, they 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.279 sing on the stirring title track. An other favorites Virginia 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.520 Win in the Night and Owed to the sense of 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.280 comfort one feels when returning to the place that shaped you. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.679 It's particularly affecting given the last two years, which are 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.320 forced all of us to redefine our relationship to home. 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.679 I'm so happy to welcome Jonathan and Charity from the 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.319 Head and the Heart. I hope you enjoy our conversation. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.560 That is such a pleasure to speak to you, and 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.839 it is such a pleasure to hear your incredible music. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.000 I know we're we're speaking a few months before Every 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.640 Shade of Blue is actually due out, but I was 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.080 lucky enough to hear it, and while listening to it, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.080 the word that came into my mind. And it's an 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.400 overused word, but I feel like it's the most appropriate now. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:45.720 It's just epic. I mean not not only just the 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.160 length of the album, but the sound. It just envelopes you. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.920 It's so cinematic. It's just so huge and warm. I mean, 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.560 they're intimate moments on it, but just overall sonically. Was 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.800 there an intent during these sessions to make this like 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.760 just such a big statement. I don't know that anyone 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.840 had any idea or or ability to uh see into 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.799 the future, especially in um uh. To be honest with you, 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.680 it's taken so many zigzags. I mean, you know when 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.520 I listened to it back, UM, like I'm still very 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.040 much aware of Like, there's batches of songs we did, 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.280 like like oh, these three songs we did with Andrew 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.160 Sarlow and and those were the first songs we did remotely, 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.200 and we had no idea if it would work what 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.360 we were doing because we all kind of had to 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.360 become like our own you know, engineer at home, and 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:36.959 then we would send it to the producer and he 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.919 could kind of help doctor things if necessary. UM. So 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:42.280 it was a lot of it was kind of done 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.239 in patches, and then um, as things started to evolve, 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:52.799 which I always relatively confident about, like once you start doing, um, 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.440 you just kind of keep going. It sort of presents 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.480 like what what it's becoming to you, um, and then 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.880 you can kind of start leaning in steering. But I'd 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.920 say for a while it was it was um, it 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.760 was pretty I don't know, anchorless at first. UM, And 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.880 it didn't feel good or bad because again it was 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:15.639 like the start of a pandemic and no one really 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.639 knew what was happening at all. So UM, I don't 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.240 know if they answer to your question or charity if 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.959 you have any better insights or yeah, well yeah, no, 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.440 I think I think our original intention was you had 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.520 to kind of like work with different producers, you know, 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.000 and just collaborators. And so our first thing on the 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.200 books was supposed to be in person with Andrew Sarlow 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.280 to do like six songs, and because that was the 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:42.720 first thing on the books, and we're going to do 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.320 it like north of Seattle, UM, in a studio that 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.560 we had like done a music video but had never 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.480 actually recorded the band. So that was like kind of 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.600 that was pretty exciting, but then it was like April 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.880 where like we can't really do this, and so then 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.160 we moved things to remote and that just opened a 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.160 whole new world of like we don't know how this 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.920 is going to go, what this will produce, but we're 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.280 just going for it, you know, because we we we 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.640 can were inspired and we have songs, you know, and 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:19.160 to start to like working on and um. So yeah, 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.039 we kind of did a lot of batch stuff that 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.360 was mostly remote, and then we got together physically and 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:25.960 we kind of ebbed and flow like we we talked about, 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.719 let's release a bunch of songs, you know, like do 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.000 the whole rainbow a myriad of things, or no, let's 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.680 let's do be a little more cohesive and do a 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.440 shorter album. And we just kind of back and forth, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.360 back and forth, and then finally landed like on where 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.559 I think we all feel like truly like this feels 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:48.120 representative of the time and of the band and you know, um, 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:52.279 so yeah, it's a it's an epic arc of tunes. 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.760 I mean being forced to work in this whole new way, 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.120 I mean working remotely is probably something you wouldn't orinarily 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.680 choose to do. But because you're in this new space, 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.920 was that liberating in any kind of way? Because you know, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.080 new approach leads to new ideas and new ways of 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.040 looking at things you look at I mean, I mean it, Yeah, 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.120 it depends on the person you ask. Of the bands, 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.400 you know, um, for me personally, um, and I know 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:24.240 a couple others are it felt really liberating because you know, 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.400 there were just less cooks in the in the physical kitchen, um, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.440 and so it kind of I felt like I could 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.880 be a bit freer to just throw a bunch of 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.120 paint at the wall, you know, and then wait a 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.159 couple of days for the response. Versus kind of it 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.960 happening in real time, you know. Um, and I think 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:52.400 that just where I'm at personally artistically, that felt really free, um, 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.160 to like be able to be able to take more 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.279 risks and not like fear that there's going to be 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.840 this kind of like the critique in real time. I 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.279 us you know, I haven't thought of that. Yeah, And 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.880 so that's my personal response, you know, I know in 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.320 the process like and that this is great. I love 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.719 doing an interview with John and the fact that that 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.039 we're both able to be present because we are like 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:20.880 very very opposite, both pisces. But you know, you know 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.120 so so you should so, John, what is your response 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:28.919 to that? Hated it? I'm just kidding. Um, Yeah, I 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.080 think I have like a maybe a balance of enjoying 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.120 both because for me, I was sort of I was 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.839 already kind of using like writing and recording at home 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.720 as my kind of current way of writing, Like instead 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.520 of having like just a guitar or a piano and 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.839 just kind of banging out until you had all your lyrics, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.000 I was I was starting to become more of that 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.880 type of writer where I would use like a drum 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.359 loop or a progression and just turn turn a drum 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.920 sound and to a into a saxophone and just let 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.760 that loop for twenty minutes and then throw a weird 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.320 cadence out because I was really trying to get away 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.080 from cadences and melodies that I was locked into from 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.760 the last four records. So I was already kind of 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:17.480 experimenting with working alone at home. UM. But in terms 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.640 of like, once you have that sort of starting point, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:26.560 I actually personally love the immediacy of like, oh, I 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.560 thought what I was doing was what I wanted to do, 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.760 and then I heard Chris come in with a based 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.360 idea or Tyler you know on drums, would sense before 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.600 I would like, all right, bro, your verses long enough 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.120 hit me with a pre course and by his pill, 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.520 I know what that means. So I do start to 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:48.760 sort of miss some of that immediate collaboration. UM. But 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:50.800 that being said, I also I'm just one of those 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:57.280 people who kind of thrives in um, the immediacy of 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.800 like friction, and it's like for no, I'm not saying 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.120 it's good or bad, but like I tend I tend 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.600 to enjoy like, um cool, that part of the idea 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.680 was great. I don't like the second half, and I 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.840 like to know that like as soon as possible, and 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.480 then I'm just like, cool, cool, cool, let's figure out 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.240 the second half. Um. So I kind of missed some 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.640 of that, but to be honest with you, to see, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.680 you know, the sort of opposite end of the spectrum 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.920 band members really thrive and kind of come to life 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.120 in a way that I that I hadn't been able 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.520 to see um in some time. I feel like it's 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.520 like it's totally worth it. Like because I was just 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.360 listening to Charity, you know, describe her her perspective, and 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.920 I was just immediately thinking of some some of your 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:40.880 lyrics and melodies on some of these songs that I 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.640 remember first hearing them, and I was so blown blown 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.760 away by them because they just felt like like a 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.559 it just felt like very innovative as to what I 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:55.160 imagine you doing. So UM, yeah, I think I think 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.320 it was. It was great to see other people shine 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:03.760 in that in that new sort of of arena of intimacy. Yeah. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.360 I feel like I feel like, you know, as I 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.560 kind of like understand more about myself, I guess, and 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.520 as an artist, you know, like when we were able 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.840 to work in the home studio. Maddie, my partner who 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.640 was also in the band. We we actually finished our 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:25.280 home studio February January February. UM, good, yeah, planned timing 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.520 and uh uh, you know, I think that I just 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:34.840 realized that I really, like my I can flow just 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.240 independently and I'll like just a bunch of ideas will 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.080 just like come to me in a short amount of time. 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.080 And so it was really great to be like Maddie, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.360 you know, was able to engineer me while I was 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:53.320 recording tracking. Um, so it was even more seamless. And 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.600 that way I could just like get all the ideas down, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.760 you know, like just that funnel them all, you know, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.760 without where I think when we are kind of in 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.920 a in a in an in person full band situation, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.679 it's just like it is a little bit more collaborative, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.840 which is great and healthy. But you know, you know 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.280 what I'm saying. I just realized that like for my voice, 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.560 I can rattle off a bunch of ship just you know, 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.800 all at once and then and then have the delayed feedback. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:38.600 But you know, it's always so interesting here everybody, I mean, 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.440 just all the many ways that songs can come together. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.640 And I know it sounds like that when you finally 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.839 did get in a room together the studio. You were 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.920 in the studio Litho and Seattle where you recorded I 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.000 think your first two albums, and I think you also 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.800 used the same engineer, Sean Simmons. Right, how did that 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.839 impact the session? It was there a sense of of 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.960 homecoming and comfort that you know, made you feel, you know, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.400 kind of the opposite of working at home before, instead 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.920 of having this new approach. Was there something comforting about 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.720 returning back to something more familiar after the you know, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.800 however long it was year and a half of uncertainty 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.960 and all of that, I imagine that must have had 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:20.160 a really uh comforting effect. Yeah, yeah, I feel I 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:26.040 mean it's interesting. I think that like Home, whether not consciously, 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.720 kind of is part of the theme, um kind of 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.840 kind of our interpreting our relationship with home and understanding 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:36.880 of home, you know, and I think for so many 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.160 of us in pandemic times, we had a new found 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.800 relationship with home if you're privileged enough to to stay 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.959 at home and um, you know, I think even like 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.160 the Virginia Went in the Night song, you know, it 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.520 kind of on a you know, in that kind of 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.280 micro level. That song kind of deals with that relationship, 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.240 and I think just the idea of coming back home 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.959 to our first to Seattle to Studio Litho to do this, 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.280 um you know, also has that theme and and and 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.480 I think it was definitely comforting, but it was exciting 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:15.160 because you know, we hadn't seen we've kind of seen 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.199 Shaun a bit, but we hadn't worked with him since 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.360 those earlier days. And we also brought in Jesse from 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.440 l A, you know, and it was like this fresh 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.640 new not home perspective to kind of into our into 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.960 our original home back there. So it was it kind 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:38.880 of felt like a cool, fresh, healthy juxtaposition, um uh 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.920 in in that kind of that relationship a foot in 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.040 the past and in a foot in the future, you know, yeah, yeah, 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:51.600 totally exactly. You almost verbatim answered my next question, which 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.080 is pretty astonishing talking about how the last two years 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.920 have really altered, you know, all of our definitions of home. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.360 But I imagine especially for for touring muse as, it 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.319 must have been a really interesting adjustment and and a 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:08.160 change for you. Um how how was that for you 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.360 adjusting to that? Well, I think my wife and I 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.400 are going to have like separation anxiety the minute I 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:20.640 leave for more than three hours, um, which was interesting 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.600 because at first I don't think we've ever spent more 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.079 than six weeks consecutively together. We've been together for six years, 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.080 so um, you know, because she's used to be being 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.280 around for a month, then ago on tour for a month, um, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.560 and typically she would wake up and go to the 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:42.320 office and I would rearrange the apartment into a studio 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.319 and then I'd tear it down as you come home. UM. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:50.000 So yeah, it was a really interesting change. UM. I 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.079 mean on a on a personal level, I think it's 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.840 sort of created this sort of combustion or like maybe 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.319 not combustion or maybe that too, but like this sort 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.959 of bottleneck of like, all right, we're in the skinny situation, 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:04.640 like you know, some of those things that you kind 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.000 of put off and you're like, I'll deal with that 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.920 when I come back. There's no that you You just 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.440 have to deal with it, you know, and you can 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.040 just start chipping away at it. UM. So it sort 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:20.640 of forced your hand to um to start you know, 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:26.680 working on yourself, working on your relationships and UM and UM. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.240 But at the you know, on the other side, it 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:33.400 was like our identity has been wrapped up in being 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.920 performers for over a decade and that was pretty that 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:41.320 was a pretty hard hard fall. I'd say for me, um, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.960 just sort of what is my purpose? Um, I'm a 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.880 very like goal oriented person. I can like remember watching 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:53.680 uh Michael Jordan's documentary and he would create these like 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.760 real or false riffs between him and a player an opponent, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.040 just so he would like get himself to that that 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.080 level he need to get at. And I was like, fun, 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.400 that's what I do that. Not I'm not comparing myself 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.880 to Michael Jordan's because one of a kind man there, 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.800 but like in a way, I do that similar thing. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.400 And it's kind of hard to do that without this 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.120 sort of competitive nature that ends every single one of 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.680 my nights when I'm on tour. And I was like, damn, 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.200 I need to just like I have to learn how 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.880 to just the sine wave becomes like the peaks and 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.200 valleys are shorter now and how And it was hard 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.520 for me to cope with I'm doing really well with 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.320 like high seas um, or at least I thought I 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:34.880 did well. I don't think I was doing well, but 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.400 I felt alive. Let's put it that way. UM. So yeah, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:45.480 it was a challenging but beautiful and grounding, um eventual process. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:51.800 I think on my end, you go new mom. Yeah, 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.200 I mean, let's interest saying as soon as you said 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:58.720 the word identity, you know that that is exactly what 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:03.400 came to mind for me. Is like literally what we do, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.880 our musical identity, you know, stripped from us, Like we 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.360 weren't able to kind of go on the road and 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.080 do what we were used to doing and um in 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:17.720 exercising that and um which ironically for me personally, I 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:23.640 kind of hid was having an existential crisis before, which 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.880 led in perfectly to this bed of time where I could, 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.960 um uh have like just more space to kind of 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.880 process that. And I think as a band, you know, 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.240 because of that time and space and uncertainty, um and 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.880 being kind of off that carousel like a tour, I 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:49.840 think that we started to kind of try and identify 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:55.960 what our identity is collectively and and accepting that, you know. 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.640 And I think that every Shade of Blue is so 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:03.520 much in extent of that process. I mean you mentioned 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.919 earlier that you know, sense of homecoming is sort of 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.120 something that shows up on this album. When we're speaking now, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.800 it's just a few days after you released your latest single, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.000 Virginia Win the Night, Uh, which seemed to have, you know, 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.640 these themes of being grounded in the place that you're from. 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.920 Can you tell me more about that song? Is incredible track? Yeah, 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:26.240 thank well, thank you? Um yeah, I you know, it's interesting, 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.080 It's it's almost for me. It's sort of this like 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.600 when I met my wife. I met her in Chicago, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.040 sort of we both met on usual ground. I'm from Virginia, 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.520 she's from San Francisco, and when I started, when we 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.600 started dating, I sort of just eventually wound up in 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.320 San Francisco because she had the sort of more five 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.080 She's very much placed here with her work, and I 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.560 can kind of float around. And I didn't really, I don't. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.320 I don't know that I understood how much that was 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.200 going to affect me. You talk about identity as well. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.560 I mean, I just started to realize that some of 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.840 these in Richmond, Virginia, it's not like a small town, 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.600 but it kind of really actually is like a tiny city. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:07.520 It is a tiny city, but I never really looked 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.159 at that way. So a lot of these like mannerisms 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:11.959 like looking people in the eye when you walk by 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:13.400 them on the street. Like you live in New York, 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.000 so you're like, I don't know what you're talking about, 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.760 but living in Richmond and like knowing your neighbors and 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.720 saying hello or just like just really things that you guy, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.760 as I say them out loud, don't really seem that 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.800 substantial when they all kind of add up, and then 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.040 that whole stack isn't really relevant to where you move, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.560 like somewhere like a it's the West Coast, be at 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:42.720 San Francisco, Um, quicker pace, much more dense population, um, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.879 mostly transitory and right like, I feel like most of 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:47.719 these people aren't from here, so a lot of them 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.439 are now post after the pandemic, a lot of people left. 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.199 You were just kind of chilling, but um, it just 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.600 created a whole new identity of of what you're supposed 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.720 to be like in a place. And I really didn't 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:05.400 relate to it. I've grown to kind of acclimate. But well, 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.960 I'm like, yeah, we're going back, baby. Um I'm playing 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.760 the long game, you know what I'm saying. Long game. Um. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.600 So for the song Virginia Winning the Night is kind 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.600 of like I think when I wrote that song. At 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.439 that point, I wasn't sure if I was ever going 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.840 to be able to return to that feeling, that that 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.960 sense of grounding, that sense of place where I feel 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.560 so rooted in a way that I really didn't anticipate. Um, 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.560 Like like verse two is like travel it all over 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.440 in my life and nothing slowed me down. This place 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:39.720 that I used to love, Well, it's just another town. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.800 Like that's legitimately how I thought I needed to accept that, which, 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.879 by the way, that line made my mom cry because 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.679 she was just like, no, he's never cook because my 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.480 mom lives there. Um. But that's like so that's kind 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:55.680 of for me. It was like I was just like, well, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.199 I'm an adult. I guess what you have to do. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.320 You have to move away. You've got to accept as 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.760 they are, you know, buck up, Like your wife's family 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.000 is out here, you can visit your family over there. 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.000 So for me, it was sort of this, like I 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.399 did any crisis in itself of holy sh it, what 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.720 do I do? This place is really who I am, 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.760 But I've built such an extension of who I am 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.080 in a completely different part of the country. Um. And 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.320 it was me grappling with that is what the song 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.480 is about for me personally, and was this something that 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.560 it's interesting now, I mean hearing about how everybody's relationship 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.800 to home shifted during the pandemic. I mean, what was 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.480 that sentiment? Uh? Was the song written in the midst 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.320 of the pandemic that that have an influence on that? 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.560 Or was that actually before when you were more you know, 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.040 on the road and it was it was written before um, 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:51.280 it was recorded during UM. Yeah, so I had kind 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.760 of been working on it. I had I had bits 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.959 and pieces of it from probably like I don't know, 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.439 three or four years ago, and didn't you know how 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.240 to form it into a song, and then eventually it 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.440 made itself into a new finished song. So yeah, it 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.480 was written before the pandemic, but and then we recorded 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.480 it remotely, like within the first year of the pandemic. 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.600 An amazing track. I mean, I I'm always curious how 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.480 bands choose their their first single to release, which in 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.199 this case is is the title track, and that was 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:27.200 released in January. UM, because obviously first impressions are important, 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.919 either you know, from a musical standpoint or just from 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.719 the message of the song. It could mean something that 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.280 really is kind of a signpost to what this album tackles. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.600 Tell me more about the title track. I mean, I 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.560 know it sounds like it's more about trying to kind 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.520 of peel back the getting to know the different shades 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.240 of people in a way in the shades of a 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.400 of a person that you're close to. Yeah, I love 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.720 that question or just that that that thought, because I 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.720 think about that too. Every time I hear a band, 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.119 whether I know them as friends or they're just a 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.159 band that I listened to you, I'm always like, Okay, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.600 that's the first Yeah, what is that reason? Because it's 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.720 never right or wrong, it's just what they want to 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.040 do with it. And I feel like the meaning of 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.000 every shade of blue the song? And then why did 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:14.480 we choose to put that out first? Or kind of 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.000 two different animals like, because I feel like at that point, 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:19.199 you know, we could have put out any of these 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.600 songs first, but in terms of where like the climate 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.280 or the like social consciousness felt, whether it's a mood 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.080