Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on I Heart Radio. My name is Jordan Runtag,
Speaker 1: but enough about me. My guest today have just released
Speaker 1: their latest album, Every Shade of Blue, which is one
Speaker 1: of the all time great late night records. Introspective, retrospective, imaginative,
Speaker 1: and intimate. These are all qualities we've come to know
Speaker 1: and love from the folk pop group, who just celebrated
Speaker 1: the eleventh anniversary of their debut this month. In a sense,
Speaker 1: Every Shade of Blue is a homecoming. Recorded in the
Speaker 1: same Seattle studio they recorded their first two records, but
Speaker 1: their growth and pension for musical reinvention remains strong. They're
Speaker 1: latest is packed with lush, cinematic orchestrations and a surplus
Speaker 1: of huge hooks. As the title suggests, the lyrics examine
Speaker 1: the full spectrum of emotion and the degrees to which
Speaker 1: we connect with our friends and loved ones, potent topics
Speaker 1: giving our lengthy period of global disconnection. It's been a
Speaker 1: long year, the wrong year to be left alone, they
Speaker 1: sing on the stirring title track. An other favorites Virginia
Speaker 1: Win in the Night and Owed to the sense of
Speaker 1: comfort one feels when returning to the place that shaped you.
Speaker 1: It's particularly affecting given the last two years, which are
Speaker 1: forced all of us to redefine our relationship to home.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to welcome Jonathan and Charity from the
Speaker 1: Head and the Heart. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Speaker 1: That is such a pleasure to speak to you, and
Speaker 1: it is such a pleasure to hear your incredible music.
Speaker 1: I know we're we're speaking a few months before Every
Speaker 1: Shade of Blue is actually due out, but I was
Speaker 1: lucky enough to hear it, and while listening to it,
Speaker 1: the word that came into my mind. And it's an
Speaker 1: overused word, but I feel like it's the most appropriate now.
Speaker 1: It's just epic. I mean not not only just the
Speaker 1: length of the album, but the sound. It just envelopes you.
Speaker 1: It's so cinematic. It's just so huge and warm. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're intimate moments on it, but just overall sonically. Was
Speaker 1: there an intent during these sessions to make this like
Speaker 1: just such a big statement. I don't know that anyone
Speaker 1: had any idea or or ability to uh see into
Speaker 1: the future, especially in um uh. To be honest with you,
Speaker 1: it's taken so many zigzags. I mean, you know when
Speaker 1: I listened to it back, UM, like I'm still very
Speaker 1: much aware of Like, there's batches of songs we did,
Speaker 1: like like oh, these three songs we did with Andrew
Speaker 1: Sarlow and and those were the first songs we did remotely,
Speaker 1: and we had no idea if it would work what
Speaker 1: we were doing because we all kind of had to
Speaker 1: become like our own you know, engineer at home, and
Speaker 1: then we would send it to the producer and he
Speaker 1: could kind of help doctor things if necessary. UM. So
Speaker 1: it was a lot of it was kind of done
Speaker 1: in patches, and then um, as things started to evolve,
Speaker 1: which I always relatively confident about, like once you start doing, um,
Speaker 1: you just kind of keep going. It sort of presents
Speaker 1: like what what it's becoming to you, um, and then
Speaker 1: you can kind of start leaning in steering. But I'd
Speaker 1: say for a while it was it was um, it
Speaker 1: was pretty I don't know, anchorless at first. UM, And
Speaker 1: it didn't feel good or bad because again it was
Speaker 1: like the start of a pandemic and no one really
Speaker 1: knew what was happening at all. So UM, I don't
Speaker 1: know if they answer to your question or charity if
Speaker 1: you have any better insights or yeah, well yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I think I think our original intention was you had
Speaker 1: to kind of like work with different producers, you know,
Speaker 1: and just collaborators. And so our first thing on the
Speaker 1: books was supposed to be in person with Andrew Sarlow
Speaker 1: to do like six songs, and because that was the
Speaker 1: first thing on the books, and we're going to do
Speaker 1: it like north of Seattle, UM, in a studio that
Speaker 1: we had like done a music video but had never
Speaker 1: actually recorded the band. So that was like kind of
Speaker 1: that was pretty exciting, but then it was like April
Speaker 1: where like we can't really do this, and so then
Speaker 1: we moved things to remote and that just opened a
Speaker 1: whole new world of like we don't know how this
Speaker 1: is going to go, what this will produce, but we're
Speaker 1: just going for it, you know, because we we we
Speaker 1: can were inspired and we have songs, you know, and
Speaker 1: to start to like working on and um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we kind of did a lot of batch stuff that
Speaker 1: was mostly remote, and then we got together physically and
Speaker 1: we kind of ebbed and flow like we we talked about,
Speaker 1: let's release a bunch of songs, you know, like do
Speaker 1: the whole rainbow a myriad of things, or no, let's
Speaker 1: let's do be a little more cohesive and do a
Speaker 1: shorter album. And we just kind of back and forth,
Speaker 1: back and forth, and then finally landed like on where
Speaker 1: I think we all feel like truly like this feels
Speaker 1: representative of the time and of the band and you know, um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's a it's an epic arc of tunes.
Speaker 1: I mean being forced to work in this whole new way,
Speaker 1: I mean working remotely is probably something you wouldn't orinarily
Speaker 1: choose to do. But because you're in this new space,
Speaker 1: was that liberating in any kind of way? Because you know,
Speaker 1: new approach leads to new ideas and new ways of
Speaker 1: looking at things you look at I mean, I mean it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it depends on the person you ask. Of the bands,
Speaker 1: you know, um, for me personally, um, and I know
Speaker 1: a couple others are it felt really liberating because you know,
Speaker 1: there were just less cooks in the in the physical kitchen, um,
Speaker 1: and so it kind of I felt like I could
Speaker 1: be a bit freer to just throw a bunch of
Speaker 1: paint at the wall, you know, and then wait a
Speaker 1: couple of days for the response. Versus kind of it
Speaker 1: happening in real time, you know. Um, and I think
Speaker 1: that just where I'm at personally artistically, that felt really free, um,
Speaker 1: to like be able to be able to take more
Speaker 1: risks and not like fear that there's going to be
Speaker 1: this kind of like the critique in real time. I
Speaker 1: us you know, I haven't thought of that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so that's my personal response, you know, I know in
Speaker 1: the process like and that this is great. I love
Speaker 1: doing an interview with John and the fact that that
Speaker 1: we're both able to be present because we are like
Speaker 1: very very opposite, both pisces. But you know, you know
Speaker 1: so so you should so, John, what is your response
Speaker 1: to that? Hated it? I'm just kidding. Um, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I have like a maybe a balance of enjoying
Speaker 1: both because for me, I was sort of I was
Speaker 1: already kind of using like writing and recording at home
Speaker 1: as my kind of current way of writing, Like instead
Speaker 1: of having like just a guitar or a piano and
Speaker 1: just kind of banging out until you had all your lyrics,
Speaker 1: I was I was starting to become more of that
Speaker 1: type of writer where I would use like a drum
Speaker 1: loop or a progression and just turn turn a drum
Speaker 1: sound and to a into a saxophone and just let
Speaker 1: that loop for twenty minutes and then throw a weird
Speaker 1: cadence out because I was really trying to get away
Speaker 1: from cadences and melodies that I was locked into from
Speaker 1: the last four records. So I was already kind of
Speaker 1: experimenting with working alone at home. UM. But in terms
Speaker 1: of like, once you have that sort of starting point,
Speaker 1: I actually personally love the immediacy of like, oh, I
Speaker 1: thought what I was doing was what I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: and then I heard Chris come in with a based
Speaker 1: idea or Tyler you know on drums, would sense before
Speaker 1: I would like, all right, bro, your verses long enough
Speaker 1: hit me with a pre course and by his pill,
Speaker 1: I know what that means. So I do start to
Speaker 1: sort of miss some of that immediate collaboration. UM. But
Speaker 1: that being said, I also I'm just one of those
Speaker 1: people who kind of thrives in um, the immediacy of
Speaker 1: like friction, and it's like for no, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's good or bad, but like I tend I tend
Speaker 1: to enjoy like, um cool, that part of the idea
Speaker 1: was great. I don't like the second half, and I
Speaker 1: like to know that like as soon as possible, and
Speaker 1: then I'm just like, cool, cool, cool, let's figure out
Speaker 1: the second half. Um. So I kind of missed some
Speaker 1: of that, but to be honest with you, to see,
Speaker 1: you know, the sort of opposite end of the spectrum
Speaker 1: band members really thrive and kind of come to life
Speaker 1: in a way that I that I hadn't been able
Speaker 1: to see um in some time. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: like it's totally worth it. Like because I was just
Speaker 1: listening to Charity, you know, describe her her perspective, and
Speaker 1: I was just immediately thinking of some some of your
Speaker 1: lyrics and melodies on some of these songs that I
Speaker 1: remember first hearing them, and I was so blown blown
Speaker 1: away by them because they just felt like like a
Speaker 1: it just felt like very innovative as to what I
Speaker 1: imagine you doing. So UM, yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1: it was. It was great to see other people shine
Speaker 1: in that in that new sort of of arena of intimacy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like, you know, as I
Speaker 1: kind of like understand more about myself, I guess, and
Speaker 1: as an artist, you know, like when we were able
Speaker 1: to work in the home studio. Maddie, my partner who
Speaker 1: was also in the band. We we actually finished our
Speaker 1: home studio February January February. UM, good, yeah, planned timing
Speaker 1: and uh uh, you know, I think that I just
Speaker 1: realized that I really, like my I can flow just
Speaker 1: independently and I'll like just a bunch of ideas will
Speaker 1: just like come to me in a short amount of time.
Speaker 1: And so it was really great to be like Maddie,
Speaker 1: you know, was able to engineer me while I was
Speaker 1: recording tracking. Um, so it was even more seamless. And
Speaker 1: that way I could just like get all the ideas down,
Speaker 1: you know, like just that funnel them all, you know,
Speaker 1: without where I think when we are kind of in
Speaker 1: a in a in an in person full band situation,
Speaker 1: it's just like it is a little bit more collaborative,
Speaker 1: which is great and healthy. But you know, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I just realized that like for my voice,
Speaker 1: I can rattle off a bunch of ship just you know,
Speaker 1: all at once and then and then have the delayed feedback.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's always so interesting here everybody, I mean,
Speaker 1: just all the many ways that songs can come together.
Speaker 1: And I know it sounds like that when you finally
Speaker 1: did get in a room together the studio. You were
Speaker 1: in the studio Litho and Seattle where you recorded I
Speaker 1: think your first two albums, and I think you also
Speaker 1: used the same engineer, Sean Simmons. Right, how did that
Speaker 1: impact the session? It was there a sense of of
Speaker 1: homecoming and comfort that you know, made you feel, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite of working at home before, instead
Speaker 1: of having this new approach. Was there something comforting about
Speaker 1: returning back to something more familiar after the you know,
Speaker 1: however long it was year and a half of uncertainty
Speaker 1: and all of that, I imagine that must have had
Speaker 1: a really uh comforting effect. Yeah, yeah, I feel I
Speaker 1: mean it's interesting. I think that like Home, whether not consciously,
Speaker 1: kind of is part of the theme, um kind of
Speaker 1: kind of our interpreting our relationship with home and understanding
Speaker 1: of home, you know, and I think for so many
Speaker 1: of us in pandemic times, we had a new found
Speaker 1: relationship with home if you're privileged enough to to stay
Speaker 1: at home and um, you know, I think even like
Speaker 1: the Virginia Went in the Night song, you know, it
Speaker 1: kind of on a you know, in that kind of
Speaker 1: micro level. That song kind of deals with that relationship,
Speaker 1: and I think just the idea of coming back home
Speaker 1: to our first to Seattle to Studio Litho to do this,
Speaker 1: um you know, also has that theme and and and
Speaker 1: I think it was definitely comforting, but it was exciting
Speaker 1: because you know, we hadn't seen we've kind of seen
Speaker 1: Shaun a bit, but we hadn't worked with him since
Speaker 1: those earlier days. And we also brought in Jesse from
Speaker 1: l A, you know, and it was like this fresh
Speaker 1: new not home perspective to kind of into our into
Speaker 1: our original home back there. So it was it kind
Speaker 1: of felt like a cool, fresh, healthy juxtaposition, um uh
Speaker 1: in in that kind of that relationship a foot in
Speaker 1: the past and in a foot in the future, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: totally exactly. You almost verbatim answered my next question, which
Speaker 1: is pretty astonishing talking about how the last two years
Speaker 1: have really altered, you know, all of our definitions of home.
Speaker 1: But I imagine especially for for touring muse as, it
Speaker 1: must have been a really interesting adjustment and and a
Speaker 1: change for you. Um how how was that for you
Speaker 1: adjusting to that? Well, I think my wife and I
Speaker 1: are going to have like separation anxiety the minute I
Speaker 1: leave for more than three hours, um, which was interesting
Speaker 1: because at first I don't think we've ever spent more
Speaker 1: than six weeks consecutively together. We've been together for six years,
Speaker 1: so um, you know, because she's used to be being
Speaker 1: around for a month, then ago on tour for a month, um,
Speaker 1: and typically she would wake up and go to the
Speaker 1: office and I would rearrange the apartment into a studio
Speaker 1: and then I'd tear it down as you come home. UM.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a really interesting change. UM. I
Speaker 1: mean on a on a personal level, I think it's
Speaker 1: sort of created this sort of combustion or like maybe
Speaker 1: not combustion or maybe that too, but like this sort
Speaker 1: of bottleneck of like, all right, we're in the skinny situation,
Speaker 1: like you know, some of those things that you kind
Speaker 1: of put off and you're like, I'll deal with that
Speaker 1: when I come back. There's no that you You just
Speaker 1: have to deal with it, you know, and you can
Speaker 1: just start chipping away at it. UM. So it sort
Speaker 1: of forced your hand to um to start you know,
Speaker 1: working on yourself, working on your relationships and UM and UM.
Speaker 1: But at the you know, on the other side, it
Speaker 1: was like our identity has been wrapped up in being
Speaker 1: performers for over a decade and that was pretty that
Speaker 1: was a pretty hard hard fall. I'd say for me, um,
Speaker 1: just sort of what is my purpose? Um, I'm a
Speaker 1: very like goal oriented person. I can like remember watching
Speaker 1: uh Michael Jordan's documentary and he would create these like
Speaker 1: real or false riffs between him and a player an opponent,
Speaker 1: just so he would like get himself to that that
Speaker 1: level he need to get at. And I was like, fun,
Speaker 1: that's what I do that. Not I'm not comparing myself
Speaker 1: to Michael Jordan's because one of a kind man there,
Speaker 1: but like in a way, I do that similar thing.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of hard to do that without this
Speaker 1: sort of competitive nature that ends every single one of
Speaker 1: my nights when I'm on tour. And I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: I need to just like I have to learn how
Speaker 1: to just the sine wave becomes like the peaks and
Speaker 1: valleys are shorter now and how And it was hard
Speaker 1: for me to cope with I'm doing really well with
Speaker 1: like high seas um, or at least I thought I
Speaker 1: did well. I don't think I was doing well, but
Speaker 1: I felt alive. Let's put it that way. UM. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a challenging but beautiful and grounding, um eventual process.
Speaker 1: I think on my end, you go new mom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, let's interest saying as soon as you said
Speaker 1: the word identity, you know that that is exactly what
Speaker 1: came to mind for me. Is like literally what we do,
Speaker 1: our musical identity, you know, stripped from us, Like we
Speaker 1: weren't able to kind of go on the road and
Speaker 1: do what we were used to doing and um in
Speaker 1: exercising that and um which ironically for me personally, I
Speaker 1: kind of hid was having an existential crisis before, which
Speaker 1: led in perfectly to this bed of time where I could,
Speaker 1: um uh have like just more space to kind of
Speaker 1: process that. And I think as a band, you know,
Speaker 1: because of that time and space and uncertainty, um and
Speaker 1: being kind of off that carousel like a tour, I
Speaker 1: think that we started to kind of try and identify
Speaker 1: what our identity is collectively and and accepting that, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think that every Shade of Blue is so
Speaker 1: much in extent of that process. I mean you mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier that you know, sense of homecoming is sort of
Speaker 1: something that shows up on this album. When we're speaking now,
Speaker 1: it's just a few days after you released your latest single,
Speaker 1: Virginia Win the Night, Uh, which seemed to have, you know,
Speaker 1: these themes of being grounded in the place that you're from.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about that song? Is incredible track? Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank well, thank you? Um yeah, I you know, it's interesting,
Speaker 1: It's it's almost for me. It's sort of this like
Speaker 1: when I met my wife. I met her in Chicago,
Speaker 1: sort of we both met on usual ground. I'm from Virginia,
Speaker 1: she's from San Francisco, and when I started, when we
Speaker 1: started dating, I sort of just eventually wound up in
Speaker 1: San Francisco because she had the sort of more five
Speaker 1: She's very much placed here with her work, and I
Speaker 1: can kind of float around. And I didn't really, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I understood how much that was
Speaker 1: going to affect me. You talk about identity as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just started to realize that some of
Speaker 1: these in Richmond, Virginia, it's not like a small town,
Speaker 1: but it kind of really actually is like a tiny city.
Speaker 1: It is a tiny city, but I never really looked
Speaker 1: at that way. So a lot of these like mannerisms
Speaker 1: like looking people in the eye when you walk by
Speaker 1: them on the street. Like you live in New York,
Speaker 1: so you're like, I don't know what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: but living in Richmond and like knowing your neighbors and
Speaker 1: saying hello or just like just really things that you guy,
Speaker 1: as I say them out loud, don't really seem that
Speaker 1: substantial when they all kind of add up, and then
Speaker 1: that whole stack isn't really relevant to where you move,
Speaker 1: like somewhere like a it's the West Coast, be at
Speaker 1: San Francisco, Um, quicker pace, much more dense population, um,
Speaker 1: mostly transitory and right like, I feel like most of
Speaker 1: these people aren't from here, so a lot of them
Speaker 1: are now post after the pandemic, a lot of people left.
Speaker 1: You were just kind of chilling, but um, it just
Speaker 1: created a whole new identity of of what you're supposed
Speaker 1: to be like in a place. And I really didn't
Speaker 1: relate to it. I've grown to kind of acclimate. But well,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, we're going back, baby. Um I'm playing
Speaker 1: the long game, you know what I'm saying. Long game. Um.
Speaker 1: So for the song Virginia Winning the Night is kind
Speaker 1: of like I think when I wrote that song. At
Speaker 1: that point, I wasn't sure if I was ever going
Speaker 1: to be able to return to that feeling, that that
Speaker 1: sense of grounding, that sense of place where I feel
Speaker 1: so rooted in a way that I really didn't anticipate. Um,
Speaker 1: Like like verse two is like travel it all over
Speaker 1: in my life and nothing slowed me down. This place
Speaker 1: that I used to love, Well, it's just another town.
Speaker 1: Like that's legitimately how I thought I needed to accept that, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, that line made my mom cry because
Speaker 1: she was just like, no, he's never cook because my
Speaker 1: mom lives there. Um. But that's like so that's kind
Speaker 1: of for me. It was like I was just like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm an adult. I guess what you have to do.
Speaker 1: You have to move away. You've got to accept as
Speaker 1: they are, you know, buck up, Like your wife's family
Speaker 1: is out here, you can visit your family over there.
Speaker 1: So for me, it was sort of this, like I
Speaker 1: did any crisis in itself of holy sh it, what
Speaker 1: do I do? This place is really who I am,
Speaker 1: But I've built such an extension of who I am
Speaker 1: in a completely different part of the country. Um. And
Speaker 1: it was me grappling with that is what the song
Speaker 1: is about for me personally, and was this something that
Speaker 1: it's interesting now, I mean hearing about how everybody's relationship
Speaker 1: to home shifted during the pandemic. I mean, what was
Speaker 1: that sentiment? Uh? Was the song written in the midst
Speaker 1: of the pandemic that that have an influence on that?
Speaker 1: Or was that actually before when you were more you know,
Speaker 1: on the road and it was it was written before um,
Speaker 1: it was recorded during UM. Yeah, so I had kind
Speaker 1: of been working on it. I had I had bits
Speaker 1: and pieces of it from probably like I don't know,
Speaker 1: three or four years ago, and didn't you know how
Speaker 1: to form it into a song, and then eventually it
Speaker 1: made itself into a new finished song. So yeah, it
Speaker 1: was written before the pandemic, but and then we recorded
Speaker 1: it remotely, like within the first year of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: An amazing track. I mean, I I'm always curious how
Speaker 1: bands choose their their first single to release, which in
Speaker 1: this case is is the title track, and that was
Speaker 1: released in January. UM, because obviously first impressions are important,
Speaker 1: either you know, from a musical standpoint or just from
Speaker 1: the message of the song. It could mean something that
Speaker 1: really is kind of a signpost to what this album tackles.
Speaker 1: Tell me more about the title track. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know it sounds like it's more about trying to kind
Speaker 1: of peel back the getting to know the different shades
Speaker 1: of people in a way in the shades of a
Speaker 1: of a person that you're close to. Yeah, I love
Speaker 1: that question or just that that that thought, because I
Speaker 1: think about that too. Every time I hear a band,
Speaker 1: whether I know them as friends or they're just a
Speaker 1: band that I listened to you, I'm always like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's the first Yeah, what is that reason? Because it's
Speaker 1: never right or wrong, it's just what they want to
Speaker 1: do with it. And I feel like the meaning of
Speaker 1: every shade of blue the song? And then why did
Speaker 1: we choose to put that out first? Or kind of
Speaker 1: two different animals like, because I feel like at that point,
Speaker 1: you know, we could have put out any of these
Speaker 1: songs first, but in terms of where like the climate
Speaker 1: or the like social consciousness felt, whether it's a mood
Speaker 1: or a color or just literally something about that song
Speaker 1: just felt like what we were moving out of. It's
Speaker 1: a very like somber, sort of purply blue feeling to me.
Speaker 1: And that's just kind of how like January. Like I
Speaker 1: was just imagining, hopefully we're on the tail end of
Speaker 1: this of this mostly uh mostly a you know, kind
Speaker 1: of a struggle feeling of a pandemic, and then we
Speaker 1: wanted to sort of work our way towards something a
Speaker 1: little more bright, joyful, lighter. It's that one just felt
Speaker 1: like like the mood of the social climate. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe two much to to claim to know, but um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, does that make any sense. We're emerging,
Speaker 1: we're emerging from the sea, and now we're starting to
Speaker 1: climb up hill. There we go. Yeah, I really wished
Speaker 1: I could I could give you a Responseolutionary Charity's taking
Speaker 1: this for the rest of you. I'll just I'll just
Speaker 1: be listening. I mean, the color element is so interesting
Speaker 1: to me. Especially blue has a really storied past in music,
Speaker 1: from Miles Davis to Joni Mitchell to you know, Carl
Speaker 1: Parkins and blue suede shoes. I mean, it's it's definitely
Speaker 1: you know, to Mac Miller, Oh my god, I did
Speaker 1: actually right, It's it's like one of many Miles David's
Speaker 1: books that I have. I'm obsessed with Miles Davis. Is
Speaker 1: there an element of synaesthesia when when either of you
Speaker 1: are writing, Is that something that's at play when when
Speaker 1: you work now to belate for me? Yeah? Yeah, you interesting?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure I was. I was recently reading the
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney book about his lyrics, which which is like,
Speaker 1: you know, pages and it's so cool, and he's talking
Speaker 1: about all the stories behind his songs, and I was
Speaker 1: struck by how often many of his song either melodies
Speaker 1: or just lyrical ideas came to him in dreams. And
Speaker 1: I just thought that was interesting. Although I guess there's
Speaker 1: probably a deep connection between the subconscious and creativity, so
Speaker 1: maybe that's not that unusual. But I just want to
Speaker 1: ask you, what are some of the most interesting or
Speaker 1: unique circumstances that uh, song ideas have come to you?
Speaker 1: The early morning, late evening dream state is like fertile ground.
Speaker 1: I think for it's you know, inspiration for for me personally,
Speaker 1: I just totally I think, I just because that's sub conscious.
Speaker 1: I'm i'm, i'm, I'm I'm so self critical, you know,
Speaker 1: I think, um, it's it keeps me from becoming prolific.
Speaker 1: And I think I think that in the dream state,
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, my own personal critic is is
Speaker 1: half asleep. So I think I think that I'm able
Speaker 1: to receive and kind of put you have more of
Speaker 1: an output, you know. Um, yeah, I love. I totally
Speaker 1: identify with the dream state of inspiration. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: sometimes it's like yeah, sometimes it's something sort of more
Speaker 1: profound like that, and then sometimes it's literally when I'm
Speaker 1: just like doing dishes, I think when I'm not yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think it goes kind of you
Speaker 1: that subconscious sort of subconscious thing like you're saying, is
Speaker 1: well charity, where like, I'm not focused on me. I'm
Speaker 1: not focused on what I've done in the past or
Speaker 1: what I need to be doing. It's literally just like
Speaker 1: a very mechanical motion. I'm just doing the dishes, tuning out,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you start humming along
Speaker 1: into something and then you go away. Is that in
Speaker 1: the world yet, No, it's not. Okay, that's something I
Speaker 1: just came up with in and let's just start working
Speaker 1: on that. Um. But that made me think, what about
Speaker 1: didn't didn't let's be still for you? Did that start
Speaker 1: by like I'm a tellpool. Yeah, Martha Texas we had day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was Martha Okay, Yeah, I just love that that
Speaker 1: visual you know of just like were you in a bathrobe?
Speaker 1: Because that's what I That's what I'm picture it is.
Speaker 1: I think I was. That's amazing thing. I was white
Speaker 1: terry claws. It was. It was one of those like
Speaker 1: motels that where you feel like like no one's gonna
Speaker 1: see you. I mean, I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 1: been to Marfa, Texas, but it's a pretty uh small
Speaker 1: population of people. Um yeah, And it was just sort
Speaker 1: of it was you know, Another thing too, is that
Speaker 1: where I feel like there's a very noticeable pendulum swing,
Speaker 1: Like that was a very stressful tour long and then
Speaker 1: it was just like day off, very like Marfa. There's
Speaker 1: like there's just a lot of stimulation to very little stimulation,
Speaker 1: and then I feel like that's typically when something seems
Speaker 1: to have a chance to like peek its head out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also I also think the being if I'm watching
Speaker 1: like a music documentary or at a show, um and
Speaker 1: I miss here lyrics and then I transcribed that, you know,
Speaker 1: like in the notes on my phone as completely wrong,
Speaker 1: and then that will spur a new idea, uh you know. Um,
Speaker 1: So mishearing is also like, you know, motivating. That's so interesting. Wow,
Speaker 1: I oh my gosh, I've been doing that a lot,
Speaker 1: likely because of the masks and everything too, like the
Speaker 1: first Engineers. Yeah, right at the time. Oh my goodness. Well,
Speaker 1: I I don't want to take up too much more
Speaker 1: your time. I have so many more questions, but just my, my,
Speaker 1: my last one to end on. I I was, um,
Speaker 1: I think I saw this on Twitter. Someone said, and
Speaker 1: I agree that you really seem to reinvent yourself with
Speaker 1: every new album. Uh. Is it hard to strike a
Speaker 1: balance between evolving creatively while still staying true to all
Speaker 1: the fans that have you know, been with you all
Speaker 1: this time and you know, love everything that came before.
Speaker 1: How do you strike that balance? For me, the secret
Speaker 1: is to never think about that, because it's a good answer.
Speaker 1: The first record happened to have been what we had
Speaker 1: written been, but that first record could also have been
Speaker 1: any single thing in the world. I think it's it's
Speaker 1: our We are filters, these people in this band, we
Speaker 1: are filters, and I think it's the filtration of what
Speaker 1: comes in and then out of us that is the
Speaker 1: makeup of of of the choices we make. So we
Speaker 1: are still the same filters. There's just different ideas generating.
Speaker 1: So I trust, I just trust the filtration system, which
Speaker 1: is the head and the heart to that is what
Speaker 1: people are drawn to. It doesn't not necessarily was it
Speaker 1: acoustic electric produced stripped. It's where it's just the filtration system,
Speaker 1: I think. So I don't ever really think about what
Speaker 1: the fans are going to do or not do, um,
Speaker 1: because I don't know that I could necessarily. I don't
Speaker 1: know that if I did, it would make my songs
Speaker 1: any better. So I don't really know what you're supposed
Speaker 1: to do with that. I mean, you just kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think? Yeah? I think
Speaker 1: I think, um, yeah, being intentive to the filtration system
Speaker 1: is really important and I think before in my life,
Speaker 1: so you know, Jordan really comes down the filtration system.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the old cliche, the cliche, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I think that you know totally, and it
Speaker 1: comes down to like for me, I think like we're
Speaker 1: a beast of collaboration where we've maintained, you know, we
Speaker 1: established a foundation of being a democratic band. And there's
Speaker 1: more than one song. There's multiple songwriters in this band,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of a very unique beast and dance
Speaker 1: you know, of of collaboration and kind of being harmonious.
Speaker 1: And it's always that chase, you know, will forever be
Speaker 1: that chase of harmony. And I think that um, along
Speaker 1: the way, like we'll create we'll produce an extension of
Speaker 1: the filtration system. Uh well, I do feel like one
Speaker 1: thing to add is like I feel like one of
Speaker 1: Charity's roles, which I thought, this is what you were
Speaker 1: actually gonna get at, um was like I feel like
Speaker 1: some of some of because I actually am so blind
Speaker 1: to that necessity that your your initial question, which I
Speaker 1: think is a great question. Um, I think because I'm
Speaker 1: so blind to it, like I probably would not do
Speaker 1: as well with actually staying true to fans if I
Speaker 1: didn't have people around me like Charity, who is very
Speaker 1: good at sensing when she's like, cool, I see where
Speaker 1: you're going. That's great. But this other thing is also great,
Speaker 1: and it it's in a realm that feels like us,
Speaker 1: that feels like the next thing to do. And so
Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate to have all of us are very
Speaker 1: fortunate to have that type of barometer. And um, she
Speaker 1: just has a sense about her that is kind of
Speaker 1: it doesn't like necessarily give you lines to stay inside of.
Speaker 1: But I think charity is very good at like um
Speaker 1: sensing or guiding keeping things sort of on a path
Speaker 1: because I'm I'm bound to just mo like freaking figure eight.
Speaker 1: Yeah you're I mean you're like such a craftsman, you know,
Speaker 1: like like like you you are in in the weeds,
Speaker 1: You're in the you know, you're you're just head down
Speaker 1: craft and craft and crafting. You know, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: which is like really inspiring. And I think that that
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, envisioning kind of like how things
Speaker 1: are fitting and and to me, authenticity And what's the
Speaker 1: best thing that we can do is is do something
Speaker 1: that is an extension of our authentic selves. And so
Speaker 1: the more that we kind of are like stepping into that,
Speaker 1: the like it doesn't matter what genre, what sound, what
Speaker 1: you know, um, something is categorized as or fits into,
Speaker 1: it's just it will be. That's to me, that's the paramount.
Speaker 1: Just from the lines that you're the roles that you're
Speaker 1: both delineating, it sounds like you need both the head
Speaker 1: and the heart now, you know, you know it's crazy.
Speaker 1: No I's ever done that before really oh my god, alright,
Speaker 1: well soon's like it's it's I mean, that is a
Speaker 1: hunt to present true. That wasn't I hadn't had that
Speaker 1: written down, I promise, but oh anyway, sorry I had
Speaker 1: to um. Oh my goodness. Jonathan Charity, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for your your your time, your insight, and most importantly,
Speaker 1: your music. It's been such a pleasure talking you. Thank
Speaker 1: you so very much. Wise, thank you very much, Jordan,
Speaker 1: and we really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio,
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite podcast.