1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: You are listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast, and if 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: you listen to this show, you have probably heard me 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: complain about the fact that after my kids turn twelve 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: in my state, I no longer have control over their 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: medical records and it drives me crazy. They have to 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: sign me over as medical proxy, and I still have 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: very little information about their medical records as compared to 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: what I have before they turn twelve. So we said, 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: we need to have a doctor that can talk about this, 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: and we found a great doctor, doctor Kurt Masselli. He 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: serves as the medical director for a medical watchdog, Do 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: No Harm. Thank you so much for joining me today. 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: Doctor, It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for 14 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 2: having me. 15 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: So do you hear this complaint a lot that parents 16 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: are irritated that they lose control of their kids' medical records. 17 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: We have heard this complaint over and over, and just 18 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 2: to sort of step back for a moment, as you noted, 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: I work for an organization called Do No Harm, and 20 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: one of our key missions and focuses as part of 21 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: Do No Harm is really getting under politics, gender ideology 22 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: out of pediatric care, and so we focus on those 23 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: less than eighteen years old. And one of the things 24 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: that many parents have come to us about is the 25 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: fact that all of a sudden, when their child turns twelve, thirteen, fourteen, 26 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: just as you said, they're losing access to the electronic 27 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: health record that they once had access to. And maybe 28 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: they can see appointments, but even that sometimes is not clear. 29 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: And frankly, we've even had one of our senior fellows 30 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: who brought her child into an emergency room as a 31 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: result of a broken bone, and she didn't have any 32 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 2: access again to that child's record because he had crossed 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: the magical threshold for whereby that hospital system had determined 34 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: that access was not allowed, and that we should maintain 35 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: this sort of veil of silence over the record so 36 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: that the adolescent is really the one in charge. And 37 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: what you noted again is so very true that then 38 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: parents have to actually ask their child for permission to 39 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: look at their record to regain that proxy access. And 40 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: we've offered numerous examples in our report as to where 41 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: we've where parents have actually encountered that, and it's really 42 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: a terrible challenge. I mean, these are children, these are 43 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 2: children that we have to remember, and these are parents 44 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: who have a responsibility to care for their child. As 45 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: much as we don't let children buy cigarettes or a 46 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: drink alcohol or even vote right, we maintain that there 47 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: are certain things that parents really should be helping informing 48 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: and guiding and with healthcare, it is just so very 49 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: complex and so important for parents to really be involved, 50 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: and that's certainly within their lawful right. 51 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: We have tried many times in the state of Michigan 52 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: to figure out where is this coming from. I've talked 53 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: to legislators. I've talked to people former legislators. We've talked 54 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: to people who are running for office. I've talked to 55 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: people in other states. I know this is the same 56 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: in Iowa. I know it's in New York. I've heard 57 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: there are many other states that have California has the 58 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: same situation. But I just want people to know that 59 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: this is not a blue state situation. This is happening 60 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: in multiple states. But is it a law or is 61 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: it a rule coming from AHHS? We don't really know 62 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: why it's happening. 63 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: It's a great question that you ask, and I think 64 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: much of this goes back really probably to the nineteen 65 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: seventies or so, and that relates to family planning and 66 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: the like, and related to contraceptive care. And part of 67 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: the thought was that these are sensitive topics that a 68 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: child may not want their parent to be aware of 69 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: or such, and the thought being that, well, we would 70 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: rather have the child get access in terms of their health. Again, 71 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: this is viewed from the lens of more of a 72 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: preventive type of philosophy, and we would rather that the 73 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: child get access where they feel uncomfortable with talking about things, 74 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: perhaps related to contraceptive care, perhaps related to sexually transmitted infections, 75 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: and as such, at a certain age, states have allowed 76 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: those children, those adolescents to be able to access that care, 77 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: consent for it themselves, without parents than knowing about it. 78 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: And that's extended a bit too. Also tridden for substance 79 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: use disorders, so whether it might relate to again a 80 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: child who might be addicted to alcohol or opiates or 81 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: the like, and even then to some mental health and 82 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: so you know, each state has laws on its books 83 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: typically related to those issues. Again, there's variation, there's different 84 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: ages and the like, but it's a sort of a 85 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: narrow window. And I think what we've seen happen is 86 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: that this is with an electronic record become much broader 87 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 2: than just the sort of narrow issues. To the point, 88 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: I was just on the University of Michigan website Michigan Medicine, 89 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: and it specifically says that notes for primary care for 90 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: psychiatry are really not accessible by an adult unless they 91 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 2: have their child after the age of eleven give them 92 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 2: access to those records. And so that's sort of a blanket, 93 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: this allowance of a parent right. It's not related to 94 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: these specific carve outs that are within the confines of 95 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: state laws. It's this blanket. And when you have an 96 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: EHR we've seen we've looked at vendors like Epic, major 97 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: vendor probably controls forty percent or so of the of 98 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: the market in terms of the electronic health record market, 99 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: with with the hospitals, Oracle and other big player in 100 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 2: the field controlling about twenty or so percent of the market. 101 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: There are examples thereby in Oracle where they would provide 102 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: guidance to a hospital and say, hey, you know what, 103 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: typically thirteen is the default that we use for proxy access. Well, 104 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: again there's variation in state law. This is sort of 105 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: a blanket recommendation that's coming through health systems. We've seen 106 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: oftentimes go along with that recommendation, and the consequence is 107 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: that parents then get locked out of all of the 108 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 2: records to the point of really being in the dark 109 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: with what's going on with their child. And again, from 110 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: the perspective of what's going on in terms of pronouns 111 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: and social transition and as it relates to gender ideology, 112 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: that is definitely a concern that we have. It do 113 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: no harm. And again, parents one of the reasons that 114 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 2: parents have really voiced this issue in a rightfully in 115 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: a very loud way. I mean, I'm a parent of 116 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: a seven year old, a five year old, and an 117 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: eighteen month old, and I want to do obviously the 118 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: very best for them, and I want to make sure 119 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: that they're getting the very best in healthcare. And I, frankly, 120 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: and prior to really looking in to this and hearing 121 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: from parents, I wasn't as aware either that you know 122 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: it is me. 123 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: You don't know until it happens to you. And that 124 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: is also a complaint that I have. I see people 125 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: running for office who are like, oh, I want to 126 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: bring all of these services into the high school, and 127 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: then you ask them, well, how do you make sure 128 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: parents are aware that these medical services are being offered 129 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: to their child in high school. Well, we'll have parental consent. 130 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: But you don't have parental consent. You already have a 131 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: law that says the parent has no vision into what 132 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: is happening with the child, which is crazy to me. 133 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: And like you said, it happens overnight. So this recently 134 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: happened to us. I have two twins that just turned twelve. 135 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: They went in. One of them had a medical procedure 136 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: at the hospital in grend Rapids. We go in, have 137 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: the medical procedure, I go to get the results. She 138 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: had turned twelve the day before the appointment. Wow, immediately 139 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: shut out of her record. This was in June. I 140 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: called the office and I said, okay, I forgot that 141 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: she was turning twelve. Now can't see her records. And 142 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: they said, we won't make an appointment specifically for your 143 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: child to come in and just sign this paper and 144 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: she can't sign unless the doctor is there to have 145 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: a conversation with her. So you can wait until her 146 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: well child visit in September. Are you kidding me? You 147 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: can see her chart in September. 148 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's absolutely absurd, right, I mean, this is a 149 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: point where you want to be involved. You want to 150 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: help your child, and your child again, it's twelve years old, 151 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: and my. 152 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: Child can't make a decision on what we find out 153 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: from this medical test, and yet I cannot see what 154 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: happens for months because of the stupid law. 155 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's absolutely absurd, and I think unfortunately, with an 156 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: electronic health record, it even allows the bureaucracy to really 157 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 2: dig in by just sealing off those records and cutting 158 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: them off, which I imagine you know, would be very 159 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: different if perhaps that bureaucracy wasn't there keeping in line 160 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: with this crazy system that's just been entailed. And it 161 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: is just so important, whether you know from the state 162 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: side or even the federal sidey important guidance and clarity 163 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: that potentially could come in terms of enforcing the privacy rule, 164 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: because again, parents, you do have a right to help 165 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: support your child and understand their protected health information, especially 166 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: if it's within those lawful means, Like you're not talking 167 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: about these things that perhaps are related to you substance 168 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: use and such. This is related to the routine medical 169 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: course of care, and that's just totally. 170 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: Me Let me give you a flip side situation to 171 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: substance abuse and STDs. Because when I'm in the midst 172 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: of this and I am very frustrated by it, as 173 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: you can tell. I talked to a nurse at a 174 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: pediatrician's office and she said, Oh, you think it's bad 175 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: that you can't see your daughter's test that your daughter 176 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: is allowing you to see. She said, let me tell 177 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: you what else is happening. She said, I've got kids 178 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: in the practice right now who have active STDs, and 179 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: they have been tested and it is positive, and they 180 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: are going to have permanent harm if they do not 181 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: get something done to treat these STDs. But they don't 182 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: want their parents to see the medication, so they're going 183 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: without treatment and we can't call mom and dad and 184 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: say your kid is sick. 185 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, I'd a real unintended consequence, right. I mean, 186 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: the goal initially of these types of laws, again, if 187 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: I sort of aim to look at it from that perspective, 188 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: was to encourage kids to get access. But what you're 189 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: describing as certainly kids then not even taking that access 190 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: because of what's to come. And I would think that 191 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: any child wants that support from a parent in terms 192 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 2: of making sure that yeah, let's get the treatment. Let's 193 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 2: make sure you don't have those those harmful consequences. I mean, 194 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: even within the confines. When I was looking at the 195 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: Michigan mental Health law, it looks like that actually applies 196 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: from age fourteen and above and not necessarily this sort 197 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: of twelve thirteen cutoff. But yet the record is just 198 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: being withheld from you as an example of given from 199 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: age twelve onward and again more that is just inappropriate. 200 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: And even within the confines of that related to mental 201 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: health in Michigan, the use of psychotropic medications, if they 202 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: were indicated, still requires parental consent. So you know, I 203 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: think we unfortunately have gotten to a point where we've 204 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: probably implemented way beyond the scope of the law, and 205 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: certainly in EHR has allowed that to go to a 206 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: degree you know, unforeseen beforehand. And unfortunately, much as you've noted, 207 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: we're and up harming children as opposed to to really 208 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: helping them, which again every parent would certainly want to 209 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: make sure that their child is getting the very best 210 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 2: in healthcare and just be aware and to be cognizant 211 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 2: of what they can do to help their kid well. 212 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: And at a certain point, I mean, this has been 213 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: a confusion to me, if your child is going in 214 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: to see the doctor and having tests done, it's showing 215 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: up on the insurance that I pay, So am I 216 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: not going to see it? Anyway? 217 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: You will see those those that come on the explanation 218 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: of benefits and the like. And frankly, this is one 219 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: of the concerns that we've seen with gender medicine and 220 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: specifically related to the codes that are used there in 221 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 2: terms of the diagnostic codes. And very typically the diagnostic 222 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 2: code one would use is typically gender identity disorder, gender dysphoria, 223 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: but we have seen other codes that are being used 224 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: like endercrim disorder unspecified, And so I could imagine if 225 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: apparency is endercrom disorder unspecified, they might think, well, what 226 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 2: if my child have diabetes or do they have a 227 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 2: thyroid disease or something else. They're not necessarily thinking that, Wow, 228 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: they're receiving a treatment for gender affirming care so to speak. 229 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 2: So is yeah, you're absolutely right, you would see those 230 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: charges as those claims are filed. But then it has 231 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: gotten into this question of well, what are the codes 232 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: that folks are actually using. And again in the gender space, 233 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: which we've focused on at Do No Harm it's that's 234 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 2: one of the things that we're certainly curious to continue 235 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: to look into more and more and understand because if 236 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: anything using codes that are just completely inappropriate is really fraudulent. 237 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: Stick around for more coming up with doctor Kurt Mascelli. 238 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: But do not leave if you are over fifty and 239 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: you're worried about your heart health, because you need to 240 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: listen to this. 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They're veteran owned and proudly made 259 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: in the USA, so check it out today, but stick 260 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: around for more after this. The gender space, to me, 261 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: is one of the most criminal things we've ever seen 262 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: happen to children. I mean, I think about a few 263 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: years ago, we saw that there was female genital mutilation 264 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: happening in a city in Michigan, and it was like 265 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: rated by the police. I mean, this was this was 266 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: considered criminal. And yet you have children in schools being 267 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: taken into a side to a gender clinic. You know, 268 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: this is actually happening to kids, sterilizing someone's child without 269 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: them knowing. How can this possibly? First of all, I 270 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: think that the whole idea of cutting off children's body 271 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: parts and stopping them from going through pure pretty and 272 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: all of these things, I think it's all totally insane 273 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: and horrible. It should never happen. But the fact that 274 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: it's happening behind parents back is even more sinister. 275 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, and there's a huge challenge that we have, 276 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: whether it's with the school system or the healthcare system. 277 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: And the reality is that social transition is not innocent 278 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: by any means. In fact, it's leads one to be 279 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: more likely to then be on a path towards puberty blockers, 280 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: towards hormones, towards surgeries and the like, and so pronouns 281 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: social transition. These are things that a parent wants to 282 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: be aware of and certainly again for schools to be 283 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: doing such, or for doctor's offices to be doing such, 284 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: it just goes against any grain in your body to 285 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: be a parent to help advocate for your child and 286 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: to truly help them at a time of need, at 287 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: a time of confusion, and that's oftentimes what we've seen 288 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: that you know, there is much confusion puberty adolescens. It's hard, right, 289 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: I mean, heck, we've all gone through it and the like. 290 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: But at the same time, our treatment should really be 291 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 2: much more from a psychotherapy supportive modality and not from 292 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: all of a sudden moving to allowing someone to move 293 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: into a different realm where again where they were just 294 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: alying the confusion to take hold as opposed to truly 295 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: trying to find out what is the ideology behind it, 296 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: because oftentimes what we see as many of these children 297 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: have comorbid psychiatric issues. They're struggling for other reasons depression, anxiety, autism, 298 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: and the like, and we really should be focused on 299 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: treating those entities to allow them to get the health 300 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: and the wellness that they need, not go with the 301 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: gender affirming mindset and an aim to affirm folks and 302 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 2: then lead them on this path that just leads to 303 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 2: terrible harms. And you're right, I mean, these are again 304 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: innocent children. They're vulnerable, and certainly when they're being subject 305 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: to these messages and this influence, whether they're getting it 306 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: on social media, whether they're getting it in their school, 307 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: whether they're getting it in their medical practice office, it's 308 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: something that really does require parents to step in embrace 309 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: their child, to obviously love them as they do, and 310 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: to really care for them and help them mature them 311 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: through a challenging time in their life, not lead them 312 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: out on their own to to really the devices of 313 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: a medical system that has just gone off the rails. 314 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not even that's it's not on their own. 315 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: They have a manipulat and I cannot understand what kind 316 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: of doctor decides that this is an acceptable thing to do. 317 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: Gender affirming would be to affirm that you are you 318 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: are the gender you were at birth. Like this idea 319 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: that you're this is delusion affirming. This is trying to 320 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: create something that doesn't exist. And coming from my perspective, 321 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: I've told people this many times. I'm a cancer survivor. 322 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: I had a double mastectomy. I know what that's like. 323 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: I knew the risks. I also knew that the risk 324 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: of me not doing it was death. I would not 325 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: have ever done it had that not been the risk. 326 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: I know the changes in my body since then. I 327 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: also was put on hormone blockers because of my cancer, 328 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: so I know what that does to your body, and 329 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: it's terrible. It's terrible. I mean the only reason you 330 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: would do this is to make sure that you don't 331 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: die from something worse. And yet they are doing this 332 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: to kids, putting them on hormone blockers. What in God's 333 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: name do they think they are doing to these children, 334 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: stopping them from going through puberty. So you're going to 335 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: take away the human experience from these children, no chance, 336 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: their children. They can't make this decision, this idea that 337 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: a twelve you know, is total blowy, and they're going 338 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: to take away their chances of having a relationship. They're 339 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: not only going to take away their chances of having 340 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: a relationship, but they're now forever harmed by this. They 341 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: have either had they're either sterile or they've had their 342 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: body parts removed. And if they've had their body parts removed, 343 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: then they don't have any feeling in those areas, none whatsoever. 344 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: It's not a pleasant way to live. And then you 345 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: have these other situations where when you've had part of 346 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: your body removed, you have like phantom feelings in other 347 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: parts of your body that are constantly annoying you. I'm 348 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: not talking about this from an expert from things I've read. 349 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: I'm talking about this from my own life what I've 350 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: gone through, and I know it is a wicked, wicked, 351 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: terrible treatment, and yet they're doing this to kids that 352 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: aren't sick. 353 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: It's bewildering. And your testimony is extraordinarily powerful as someone 354 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 2: who is a cancer survivor, and to think that, right, 355 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: these are healthy kids with healthy body parts, and we're 356 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: hurting them in so many ways, and we're even telling 357 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: them that it's reversible, or we're not even discussing what 358 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: the potential is from exactly. It's absolutely insane and it's 359 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: just completely wrong. And I think at a time when 360 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: we need to really restore trust into the medical system 361 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: and restore that honor of the doctor patient relationship, we 362 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: as a medical community really need to really work on 363 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: this issue, and we have it. I mean, unfortunately many 364 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: of the medical societies and the like have been captured 365 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 2: by this ideology as opposed to really look at at 366 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 2: what is truly best for the child, and unfortunately we've 367 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: sold these lies to parents by telling them that their 368 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: child is going to be at a higher rate of 369 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: committing suicide, when that's again just not true if you 370 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: look at the data, it's related to the comorbid psychiatric 371 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 2: illness that the child is suffering from, not to the 372 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: gender dysphoria, and not that these treatments in any ways 373 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 2: actually helped resolve those issues. In fact, oftentimes that make 374 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: them worse. 375 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: And there is this weird protection of information or like 376 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: the hiding I would say of information, because for those 377 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: of us who know what this experience is like, and 378 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: I will say that I was. I went through all 379 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: these treatments because I had hormone receptive cancer, which means 380 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: my cancer grows on hormones, which is why they blocked 381 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: the female hormones, which is why they did the double massectomy. 382 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: But when it came down to having a hysterectomy, my 383 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: doctor said, you are too young to have a hysterectomy 384 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: because the benefits do not outweigh the risks. You would 385 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: have so many problems at thirty eight if you had 386 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: a hysterectomy, And we're going to say we'll monitor you 387 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: rather than take that, take your uterus out, take or 388 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: do the hysterectmy and cause you all these other harms 389 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: that are going to cause you to have brittle bones, 390 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: cause you to be depressed, cause you to go through 391 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: a menopause immediately. And yet they're doing this too young girls. 392 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: And I'm just like, how is it possible that me 393 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: at thirty eight, who had cancer and has a true reason. 394 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: They weighed that and they said your health would be 395 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: so horrible if we did this to you that we 396 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: will not even take that risk to save your potentially 397 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: save your life. We're going to monitor you for a child. 398 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: They're telling parents, you will end up with a dead 399 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: daughter if you do not allow her to become a 400 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: son and have her go through one of the most 401 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: challenging experiences of your life, to have to go through 402 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: menopause overnight as a child. It's just so so sick. 403 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 2: I could agree more. And it's one of the things 404 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: that we've seen in our Stop the Harm database that 405 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 2: we've done it Do No Harm is to actually look 406 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: at the claims data from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three, 407 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 2: and we saw over fifty seven hundred surgeries on innocent, 408 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: vulnerable children and it is just absolutely awful and tragic. 409 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: And that's throughout the nation. It's not isolated to a 410 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: certain region the sword, it's throughout the nation, and it 411 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: really speaks to the concerns and well, what we need 412 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 2: to really do to do much better for our children, 413 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 2: for our society, because you're right, these harms are real. 414 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: And you speak to detransitioners and they will also tell 415 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 2: you firsthand of the horrors that they've been through and 416 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: how the medical system just so let them down. 417 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: And that's another thing. They're silenced. It's like they are 418 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: not allowed to speak they have betrayed the cult and 419 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: they are not allowed to speak about it, and they 420 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: are They're not right, this is not happening. And yet 421 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: I say, you see surgeries, I call these experiments. The 422 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: fact that that many children have been caught a part 423 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: like Frankenstein, this is so sick. 424 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right and I and I think it 425 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: really goes to the courage of those detransitioners who are 426 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: able to speak out and to provide that really their 427 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: story and and they're just heart reaching. They're absolutely horrible 428 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: stories to hear because of what medicine has has done 429 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: to them. And certainly as a psychiatrist, I I it 430 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 2: makes me squirm because I think that my association, the 431 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 2: American Psychiatric Association, to actually endorse this kind of model 432 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: of care is just completely absurd, when when we really 433 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 2: should be using our our talk, therapy, our our therapeutic 434 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: techniques and such to really help children and to recognize 435 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: that you're absolutely right they affirming your affirming your biological sex, 436 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: of who you are, and embracing who you are and 437 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 2: to be able to have comfort with that as opposed 438 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 2: to thinking that you need to be something that you're not, 439 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: and it is. It is just so absolutely critical and 440 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 2: to the point of the electronic health record. Unfortunately, in 441 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: many regards with you know, with the the WPATH, the 442 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 2: World Professional Association of Transgender Health, it was back in 443 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: twenty eleven or so, they were recommending different types of 444 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: guidance of what to actually add into the electronic health 445 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 2: record related to an organ inventory or this idea of 446 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: sex assigned at birth, and you know, ultimately in twenty fifteen, 447 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 2: I believe HHS then did sort of mandate that, yeah, 448 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: we need to actually have this gender identity within embedded 449 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: in the electronic health record. And by twenty eighteen you 450 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: find that EPIC is doing a trial basis of again 451 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: an organ inventory, sex assigned at birth pronouns the whole line. 452 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: Yard mean, an organ inventory. 453 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: To actually account for the organs that one has, so 454 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: to note the sex organs that one has, because apparently 455 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: we can no longer really trust the sex marker. So 456 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: now we're going to do an actual organ inventory of 457 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 2: folks to note that they have the uterus or they 458 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 2: have what ovaries and the like, And it's just it's 459 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 2: become absurd and I don't think you don't need to 460 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 2: be a doctor anyone of the story. You just need 461 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: to recognize that there is male and there is female. 462 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 2: And yet we've gone into this world where we've just 463 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: ignored that ignored that biological reality to the point that 464 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: an organ inventory actually exists in electronic health records. 465 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 466 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. There are mental disorders that exist 467 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: but are extremely rare, like extremely rare, and gender dysphoria 468 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: is one of those that is extremely rare. This idea 469 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: that this is common and suddenly all of these kids 470 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: have this. What is the root cause of this? And 471 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: that seems to be the problem is that it's not 472 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: necessarily that they have come to decide this. It's that 473 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: they don't. They feel something's off and maybe it is 474 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: autism or something like that, but they tend to go 475 00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: to somebody for care. And there these d trendsition often 476 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: have stories that they were told, well, you're probably in 477 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: the wrong body. Come on, I mean you went to 478 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: school for this. You know that that's not what you 479 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: were taught. Like, Oh, there's just a massive amount of 480 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: people that feel uncomfortable. They don't know this, they're actually 481 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: in the wrong body. 482 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. If you look at the DSM, so 483 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: the manual that psychiatrist typically we use, and I could 484 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: look at the fourth edition as opposed to the fifth edition, 485 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: which is the current one. But the fourth edition actually 486 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 2: shows rates of maybe one in thirty thousand to one 487 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: in one hundred thousand have gender identity disorder as it 488 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 2: was called in the DSM four, and even in the 489 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: DSM five those prevalence rates aren't much more common. But 490 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 2: we have seen this sort of social contagion phenomenon really 491 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 2: in the past I guess decade that has mostly affected girls, 492 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: adolescent girls, and traditionally gender identity disorder was typically boys, 493 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 2: often at a young age, who sort of had some 494 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: confusion four or five, six years old, they might sort 495 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 2: of be experiencing such confusion that then for most of them, 496 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 2: the vast majority, like eighty to ninety percent, actually desists 497 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 2: and goes away, but for some it sort of remains 498 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: and again very rare in its occurrence. But now we've 499 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: come to this point where we have all of these 500 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: adolescent girls and oftentimes again in social clusters typically related 501 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: to social media or perhaps school clicks and the like, 502 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: and we've also seen this idolization of the trans status, 503 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: and so it has just had this tremendous boost of 504 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: almost one thousand percent higher in terms of what we see. 505 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: And also for many of those folks, there's this idea 506 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: of being non binary, so not even necessarily being a 507 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: woman or a man, but being something in between, which 508 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 2: again I think perhaps speaks more to the social conchangeing 509 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: aspect of it, because it's sort of pointing to something 510 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: that is completely not biological by any means, but this 511 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 2: sort of gray area that again just sort of really 512 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: proves the point of a social conchangi and phenomenon. And 513 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: it's something that we again in society where where you 514 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 2: have schools that may silently transition kids or hospital systems 515 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: doing the same or encouraging these thought processes within other 516 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: clinical venues. We've got to change that. We've really have 517 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: to refocus on who is before us look at the 518 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 2: child and help that distressed child, not put them on 519 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: a pathway and just sort of label them in this 520 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: gender distory of mindset that leads to hormones, puberty blockers, 521 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: and surgeries. 522 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: Well, so my audience probably knows where I'm going to 523 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: go with this but we've had people on recently who 524 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: have been harmed by SSRIs, and as a psychiatrist, you 525 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: know that the system has sort of changed from when 526 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: from when I was in college, it was like you 527 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: went to school for therapy, or you went to school 528 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: for psychology, you went to graduate school for psychiatry, and 529 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: then you ended up treating patients but also having those 530 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: conversations like you said, that talk, that discussion, and now 531 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: it's like have the psychologists they do the discussion. I 532 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: have the medical doctor, the psychiatrist who goes to medical school, 533 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: and they just prescribe, and there seems to be a 534 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: disconnect there. Well, I've had these patients on who have 535 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: talked about and the FDA just had a panel a 536 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: few months ago about this that these ssri in many 537 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: cases causing people to become a sexual, they are castrating them. 538 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: They have no feeling, they have no sexual desire if 539 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: this and this one patient that we had on made 540 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: a very interesting point. She was like, look, this happened 541 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,719 Speaker 1: to me when I was twenty, I was sexually active, 542 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: I went through depression during the pandemic. I was on 543 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: this for six weeks. I am permanently castrated. My emotions 544 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: are permanently stunted. My ability to have any type of 545 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: sexual arousal totally gone. And she said, I can't imagine 546 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: for these children who are put on this at six, eleven, twelve, 547 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: fourteen years old, who have never had a sexual relationship before. 548 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: Then they get to puberty and they don't feel anything 549 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: because these drugs have changed them. I mean, why aren't 550 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: we looking at the potential of this is not just 551 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: a natural occurrence. What is the medical history of these children? 552 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 2: Your point is one that any good clinician would certainly take, 553 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: and that's to really assess and understand who the patient 554 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: is that's before them. And I think, unfortunately our