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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey thereon Welcome Back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Verducci

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Speaker 1: and of course Joe Madden.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 1: Spring training is here, my man, and it is a

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Speaker 1: great time of year.

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Speaker 4: It was always my favorite. Honestly, I hope does spring eternal.

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Speaker 4: You wade all winter to get that done. A little

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Speaker 4: bit anks as a manager going into it as much

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Speaker 4: as anything, because you're always prepping.

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Speaker 3: For me.

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Speaker 4: It was always about the inaugural speeches.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I went first with the pictures and catchers, and then

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Speaker 4: you would do it again for full squad. And it

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Speaker 4: was always about setting the right tone, the message or

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Speaker 4: philosophical perspective. Beyond anything else, was just trying to get

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Speaker 4: our heads in the right spot and try to create

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Speaker 4: some common ground here so we're all pulling at the

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Speaker 4: proverbial same end of the rope. So that was my thing.

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Speaker 4: I used to go to Ken Rivisa for sports psychologist.

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Speaker 4: Ken let me talk to his class either at cal

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Speaker 4: State Fullerton or he would take me out to dirt

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Speaker 4: bag Field blair Field and I would address the Long

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Speaker 4: Beach State team and I would work on the stuff

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Speaker 4: I was gonna say to my team, our team at

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Speaker 4: that when we got to that particular juncture.

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Speaker 3: So that was always cool, but really took it seriously.

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Speaker 4: It was wonderful and nerve wracking a bit a little

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Speaker 4: bit because you just wanted to get us off to

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Speaker 4: a good start.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, those first day meetings you're talking about in

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Speaker 1: that big speech, As you know, the game has changed

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Speaker 1: a lot, Joe, and there's a lot more help in

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Speaker 1: that room. I've been at the New York Mets camp

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Speaker 1: at Port Saint Lucie, and you know that first day meeting,

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Speaker 1: Traditionally the players pile into a conference room. I just

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Speaker 1: know I wasn't there in the meeting itself. The Mets

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Speaker 1: had way more support people in that room than they

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Speaker 1: had actual players. Support people are outnumbering the players, and

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Speaker 1: not by a little. So the game has grown a lot.

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Speaker 1: But hey, we're here to talk about the game back

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Speaker 1: on the field the crack of the bat, and we've

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Speaker 1: got a line up for you today in today's podcast.

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna like, how about this, Joe. We

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Speaker 1: have Mike Trout, sho Hey, O'tani, Radfield, Devers, Nolan Aronato,

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Speaker 1: Aaron judge Juan Soto, that's just the start of things.

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Speaker 1: How does that sound good?

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Speaker 3: I'm familiar with these guys.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, yes, Well, let me start with mister Mike Trout. Okay,

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Speaker 1: because Mike shows up at spring training day one and

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Speaker 1: the Angels allow him to break the news that he

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Speaker 1: is moving out of center field. He's been a full

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Speaker 1: time center field or his whole career, of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: moving over to the corner to try to keep him healthy. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I know when you were there with the Angels, you

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Speaker 1: went through this with Mike. You sort of innocuously let

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Speaker 1: it drop that, hey, we might move him at a

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Speaker 1: center field to do exactly this, try to keep him healthy, right,

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Speaker 1: And there was backlash and that was the end of that.

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Speaker 2: And now Mike, you know, missing really.

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Speaker 1: Almost sixty percent of his games the last four years,

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Speaker 1: almost has no choice in this matter. I think he realizes,

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Speaker 1: at thirty three, turning thirty four, this is for.

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Speaker 2: His own good.

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Speaker 1: Give me a reaction now about Mike going to right

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Speaker 1: field and your experience in the past and nearly making

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Speaker 1: that move.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean at that time I thought it was

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Speaker 3: the right thing to do.

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Speaker 4: He had discussed it internally, among the for an office staff,

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Speaker 4: and I didn't think it was anything that earth shadowy.

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Speaker 3: I really didn't.

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Speaker 4: I thought I thought it was going to go over

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Speaker 4: pretty well, and again only to protect protect somebody, a

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Speaker 4: great athlete, great player, great guy, all those kind of

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Speaker 4: different things.

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Speaker 3: So it made all the sense in the world to me,

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Speaker 3: based on his most recent history, anything you.

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Speaker 4: Could do to keep that guy in the lineup as

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Speaker 4: often as you possibly can. The time I was there,

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Speaker 4: I don't even know if he was in the lineup

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Speaker 4: thirty three percent of the time forty percent of the time,

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Speaker 4: I'm not even sure, but it was not a lot,

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Speaker 4: so easily thinking that get him out of that one

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Speaker 4: position put him in a corner kind of like relegated

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Speaker 4: is the area that he has to cover. The things

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Speaker 4: he has to do, and right fields not easy. I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying that he'd have to learn ball coming off

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Speaker 4: the bat. The ball is always going to hook or

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Speaker 4: slice at the right field line, little little mental things,

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Speaker 4: but with an athlete, so I just thought it made sense.

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Speaker 4: So now that it's happening, I'm good for him because hopefully.

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Speaker 3: They will be able to keep him on the field.

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Speaker 4: He needs to be out there and the baseball world

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Speaker 4: needs to see him out there. It is a generational talent.

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Speaker 4: It's just too bad what has happened. And I just

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Speaker 4: hopefully the best for him. I wish him the best

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Speaker 4: because it's that good when it's out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know people like to make a big

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Speaker 1: deal of the fact that, you know, and Mike chuckled

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Speaker 1: at this MLB Networks ranking of the top one hundred

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Speaker 1: players in baseball. He came in at number thirty nine,

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Speaker 1: which you know, listen, it's it's ridiculous until you actually

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Speaker 1: do factor in just purely playing time, right He's not.

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Speaker 1: They're not thirty eight baseball players on the planet right

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Speaker 1: now who are better than Mike Trout. I'm sorry, but

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Speaker 1: when you just factor in the ability to be to

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Speaker 1: post and be on the field, I get why he

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Speaker 1: might slip when you're looking at it analytically, But Joe,

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Speaker 1: I think the world has forgotten how good and great

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Speaker 1: Mike Trout is and I think it's still there.

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Speaker 2: I really really do.

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Speaker 1: You know, even around the injuries when he was out there,

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Speaker 1: he's like a nine hundred plus ops player. And I

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Speaker 1: actually think and I want to get your take on this, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I think Mike has evolved into a different kind of hitter.

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Speaker 1: I think in a full season Mike is a forty

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Speaker 1: or fifty home run guy. He's much more of a

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Speaker 1: pul side fly ball hitter than that line drive over

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Speaker 1: the second baseman's head into the gap a screamer than

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Speaker 1: he was when he came up. So I don't think

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Speaker 1: you're going to see Mike contend for batting titles and

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Speaker 1: hit well over three hundred the way he did in

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Speaker 1: the early years. But I do think his power numbers

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Speaker 1: are going to rank up there with some of the best.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't surprise me if he's in the mix for a

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Speaker 1: home run title. That's the way I see Mike Trout.

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Speaker 1: Give him to me again, give him one hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty five to fifty games.

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Speaker 2: And I think he's nearing fifty home runs.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think what happened with all that is just

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Speaker 4: analytics computer's data based on how we had hit before

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Speaker 4: and what he's hitting, like what he's evolved into before

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Speaker 4: this became more obvious because like when we remember playing

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Speaker 4: specifically against him with the Rays, I wanted left handed

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Speaker 4: on him. I wanted left handant elevated velocity on him,

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Speaker 4: and that was none other than Jake McGee. So he

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Speaker 4: got to the latter part of the game. This is

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Speaker 4: just observational. It just looked to me like, you know,

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Speaker 4: I know his left hand that I get. I know

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Speaker 4: he throws fastball, you get it. But it just if

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Speaker 4: you watch Mike swing, it's just a little bit harder

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Speaker 4: for him to get to that particular pitch based on

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Speaker 4: the way his body works and the bad angle.

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Speaker 3: So that's it.

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Speaker 4: So I think as as this data became more ubiquitous,

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Speaker 4: other people saw these kind of things and they started

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Speaker 4: pitching him differently, which then took away that. I mean,

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Speaker 4: because they're going to go up and a way up

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Speaker 4: and away hard, hard, hard. He's going to have to

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Speaker 4: narrow it down to a different part of the plate. Now,

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Speaker 4: they're just not going to stay there all the time.

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Speaker 4: So his thing is to really look down, down and end.

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Speaker 4: That's where he really is very, very dangerous when the

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Speaker 4: ball's middled down. I'm saying, like thigh high down, even

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Speaker 4: the knees, but blow the knees a little bit is

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Speaker 4: a great spot for him. Even in a limited time

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Speaker 4: I was with him, I did not from the sideline.

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Speaker 4: I didn't like when he took a call strike that

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Speaker 4: looked to be down, because that's pretty much down in

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Speaker 4: the middle for him. So I think his sweet spot's

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Speaker 4: always been the same where he does his best damage

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Speaker 4: and the kind of pitches like a breaking ball strike.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to do that now.

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Speaker 4: And again I think this is like something that became

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Speaker 4: recognized because you look at him and you think you're

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Speaker 4: just going to stay away from the fastball.

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Speaker 3: This guy's going to kill your fastball.

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Speaker 4: But again, analytically, as more information is put out there

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Speaker 4: than you learn, well maybe not, that's not true if

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Speaker 4: you put in a certain spot. So I think what

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Speaker 4: he's hitting and how he's hitting right now is the

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Speaker 4: residue of how he's being pitched at. When he sees

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Speaker 4: what he likes, he's going for it. He's not going

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Speaker 4: to miss it as often. And I think that's why

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Speaker 4: the balls were on the pull side based on that

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Speaker 4: is where he likes it in the past. I would

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Speaker 4: say down in a way would be a pitch easily

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Speaker 4: he could have driven to right central and over the

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Speaker 4: right center field fence, or a hard line drive up

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Speaker 4: the gap.

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Speaker 3: But I don't even know this.

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Speaker 4: I'd have to guess he doesn't see that very often anymore.

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Speaker 4: I think this is a perfect example of how data

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Speaker 4: driven scouting beyond just eyeballs, really impacts a hitter like him,

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Speaker 4: because the things that they're doing to him now they

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Speaker 4: would have never done to him in the past, only

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Speaker 4: because the assumption was that was not the right thing

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Speaker 4: to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, he's the best low ball hitter I've

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Speaker 1: seen since Mark McGuire. That includes breaking pitches. So I

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Speaker 1: think the universe of pitchers who can elevate the ball

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Speaker 1: with velocity and spin is much larger. The population of

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Speaker 1: that universe is much larger today than it was when

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Speaker 1: Mike Trout first broke into the big leagues, so that

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Speaker 1: is continues to be a hole for Mike Trout. I

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Speaker 1: think he's gotten better about not offering at that pitch,

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Speaker 1: you know, un Less obviously it's in the zone and

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Speaker 1: it's two strikes. That's been kind of his anecdote to

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Speaker 1: anecdote to fighting off all those high fastballs.

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Speaker 2: But yes, I agree with you, the analytics, the scouting

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Speaker 2: is just.

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Speaker 1: Too good, and the holes are more exposed in the

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Speaker 1: game today than ever before. But give me your take then,

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Speaker 1: Joe on Listen, there's not a lot of protection around

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Speaker 1: Mike Trout in the lineup. It's not a deep, necessarily

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Speaker 1: deep lineup. Left handed power really not there. So what

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Speaker 1: do you see from Mike and, given you know what's

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Speaker 1: around him or not around him in this.

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Speaker 2: Angels lineup, what he might do with a healthy season.

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Speaker 4: I think he's still capable of like that nine hundred

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Speaker 4: oh ps, no question. I think he's thirty plus home runs,

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Speaker 4: no question. You know, RBIs are just going to be

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Speaker 4: contingent upon where he hits and how good the other

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Speaker 4: guys are around him. Walks versus strikeouts. You know, he

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Speaker 4: doesn't go up there necessarily looking for walks, but I

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Speaker 4: think he's if he accepts his walks. Basically, it's the

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Speaker 4: best way to describe it. I'm not just look for

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Speaker 4: a walk. Accept it. He's going to strike out, don'try

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Speaker 4: about his strikeouts. Whatever that number is at the end

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Speaker 4: of the year, poom, that's good.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be.

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Speaker 4: But if he could just really narrow a strike zone

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Speaker 4: down and force like you're saying, pitchers down war in

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Speaker 4: his zones that lay off that stuff on the top,

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Speaker 4: here's a guy that could be infected impacted by robo.

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Speaker 4: I'ms also just by the fact that something might tick

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Speaker 4: the top of the zone that he doesn't like, that

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Speaker 4: looks like a ball with them becomes a striker. I

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Speaker 4: could go everywhere with this, So for me, yes, everything's

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Speaker 4: in play. Numbers wise good, I say, should hit no

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Speaker 4: lower than second in the batting order. Just he's the

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Speaker 4: kind of guy that needs the entire batting order to

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Speaker 4: protect him when there's not necessarily just one guy to

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Speaker 4: do that. Even leadoff to me, he's not out of

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Speaker 4: the question like the Yankees did with Judge. If Mike

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Speaker 4: would accept that only because it puts pressure on the

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Speaker 4: pitchers that come after him, because he's got everybody else

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Speaker 4: behind him, everybody else being two three four who should

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Speaker 4: be decent. So yes, he's capable of all that. Don't

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Speaker 4: worry about your strikeouts, accept your walks, protect him with

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Speaker 4: the whole batting order, stay with your game plan. Don't

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Speaker 4: get out of your zarby just because you know it's

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Speaker 4: obvious that the elevated velocity does bother you. Don't worry

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Speaker 4: about that hammer, which you do do well, and if

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Speaker 4: you do that, you're going to see it often enough.

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Speaker 4: You've just got to be ready for it to put

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Speaker 4: up those kind of numbers.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's stay on the theme of former Joe

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Speaker 1: Madden players and talk about show. Hey Otani, me and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the planet continued to be amazed by

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Speaker 1: the athlete that Sho hay is. He gets on the

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Speaker 1: mound for the first time in a bullpen session in

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Speaker 1: spring training, and I saw the video and immediately I went.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a different show. Hey o, Tonny.

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Speaker 1: We have never seen him pitched out of the wind

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Speaker 1: up before, but there he was the camel back range

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers camp pitching out of the wind up. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember he's coming back from a second procedure on his

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Speaker 1: right elbow. We've only seen in the major league pitching

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Speaker 1: out of that stretch position, even with nobody on base,

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Speaker 1: And boy did it look fluid.

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Speaker 2: No surprise, he's such a great athlete. I get that.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that really jumped out of me, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I looked at his arm angle on the release point

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Speaker 1: where he was letting that ball go, and I immediately

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Speaker 1: went back and grabbed some video of twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: spring training, and he is back to where that slot

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Speaker 1: should be. His arm slot had actually dropped, you know,

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Speaker 1: in his last couple of years on the mound, and

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Speaker 1: he should be. I call it a high three quarters,

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Speaker 1: not over the top, but a high three quarters. And

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Speaker 1: he was actually low three quarters back in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: maybe feeling the effects of what was going to be

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Speaker 1: that injury that popped up and shut him down in August.

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Speaker 1: But when I look at him throwing in Dodgers camp,

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Speaker 1: and I know it's only a bullpen session, that release

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Speaker 1: point was back above six feet off the ground, and

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Speaker 1: it had dropped a good four or five inches below

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Speaker 1: that his normal natural release point back in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: So listen, he's just throwing fastballs right now. He was

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Speaker 1: clocked at ninety two ninety four. But when I saw

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Speaker 1: him throw Joe, first of all, I actually prefer guys

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Speaker 1: out of the wind up. I think you can add

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Speaker 1: some deception, you had some rhythm, and I think the

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Speaker 1: purpose behind this is actually it does take some wear

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Speaker 1: and tear off the arm. Now listen, if you're not

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Speaker 1: comfortable doing it, you're not a great athlete. Fine, pitch

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Speaker 1: out of the stretch or whatever floats your boat. But

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Speaker 1: I'd love seeing him out of the wind up. And

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Speaker 1: I love seeing him getting on top of the base

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Speaker 1: ball like he had not been in twenty two and

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Speaker 1: twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they probably did.

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Speaker 4: Some researchers sold them on the fact that the wind

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Speaker 4: up provide more of a tension free kind of a

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Speaker 4: pitch armstroke, release, less effort kind of thing until you

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Speaker 4: need to until he needs to get out of the

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Speaker 4: stretch and amp it up a little bit. I don't

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Speaker 4: know that, but I would bet that's part of it.

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Speaker 4: They probably sold them on the deception component of that,

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Speaker 4: and it's something that is a lot of Japanese pitchers

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Speaker 4: do so well with their hesitations and their pauses. Maybe

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Speaker 4: that was brought up to maybe when he got back home,

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Speaker 4: maybe his old manager coach said something to him. But

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Speaker 4: it makes sense to take a little bit pressure off

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Speaker 4: the arm.

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Speaker 3: Number one.

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Speaker 4: Number two talked about the lowering of the arm angle.

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Speaker 4: Part of that may be true about the arm was weakening.

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Speaker 4: The other thing is he just so creative. He was

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Speaker 4: probably mimicking things that he saw that he thought was

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Speaker 4: going to do he would do well with, and the

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Speaker 4: fact that it would make him more successful.

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Speaker 3: That's just how he is. He sees everything and when

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Speaker 3: you're that good.

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Speaker 4: You could look at a video of Sam Steed and

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Speaker 4: have Sam Sneed's whole approachating a golf ball.

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Speaker 3: Not everybody can do that, but show he.

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Speaker 4: Could look at somebody do something well and say I

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Speaker 4: want to do that too, and then go out there

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Speaker 4: and do it. So I'd even be curious as to

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Speaker 4: if it was lowered, just based on the fact through

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Speaker 4: creativity that he to do something other than he normally

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Speaker 4: did in the past. So, yes, it all makes sense.

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Speaker 4: He's going to transition just fine. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 4: doubt in my mind that none of this surprises me.

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Speaker 3: What you're saying.

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Speaker 4: About to wind up that had not thought about that,

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Speaker 4: But I would say that I bet, like I said,

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Speaker 4: that potential to take some stress off the arm, whip

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Speaker 4: nobody's on base, go ahead and do it.

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Speaker 3: Just go ahead, wind up and throw the baseball more easily.

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Speaker 4: With a They're probably trying to get him to be

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Speaker 4: less effort because he's kind of a full effort guy

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Speaker 4: most of the time, So that truck probably trying to

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Speaker 4: relax the effort on that arm, and that's probably part

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Speaker 4: of the equation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought it up. You know, he

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Speaker 1: does everything with a purpose. He's the most purposeful baseball

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Speaker 1: player I have been around, probably since Cal Ripken. Right,

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Speaker 1: everything is well thought out, and as I said, he's

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Speaker 1: a good enough athlete to do things in different ways

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Speaker 1: where it's not just the seat of the pants.

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Speaker 2: It's very purposeful.

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Speaker 1: You go back to his first year after he came

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Speaker 1: over here, he got eaten up in spring training basically

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Speaker 1: by Major League velocity, and he had that high lay

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Speaker 1: kick and he just wasn't getting the bat through the zone.

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Speaker 1: And it was actually in the Freeway Series, So you're

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Speaker 1: talking only a matter of days before Opening Day when

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Speaker 1: he decided, well, I'm just not gonna lay kick anymore,

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Speaker 1: and just immediately, and I mean immediately, with a brand

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Speaker 1: new setup to his swing, he just took off. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so I put nothing past him and Joe. Think about this.

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Speaker 1: If you're Dave Roberts here the Dodgers' front office as well,

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Speaker 1: Obviously he's going to be in your lineup as the

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Speaker 1: DH for the first month of the season. We're not

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Speaker 1: going to see him pitch for the Dodgers until May,

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Speaker 1: which is fine, but he's not going on a rehab

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Speaker 1: assignment because you're not gonna send show Heye to the

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Speaker 1: minor leagues. You need his bat in the major league lineup,

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Speaker 1: so they're going to have to get him ready to

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Speaker 1: start in the major leagues only with SIM games. So

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers are most likely to have to fly in

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Speaker 1: some minor league players because I don't think that you know,

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Speaker 1: the four reserve guys and the Dodgers rosters want to

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Speaker 1: do this five times. So before games, show Hay is

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Speaker 1: going to be out there throwing SIM games to minor

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Speaker 1: league hitters to get him ready for his first major

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Speaker 1: league start with no minor league starts, no rehab starts

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Speaker 1: after missing a year, and then the first month of

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Speaker 1: the season, and it wouldn't surprise me if he hits

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Speaker 1: the ground running.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not gonna matter. He's one of the few

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Speaker 4: guys that's not going to matter. These days, a lot

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Speaker 4: of the rehab guys do not want to go back

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Speaker 4: to the minor leagues for any period of time. They

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Speaker 4: all want to do this sim game thing. And even

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Speaker 4: with the Angels, I remember we had started flying hitters

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Speaker 4: in just like you're suggesting to help pitchers rehab and

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Speaker 4: get back to the major league rosters.

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Speaker 3: So that will happen.

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Speaker 4: It's not going to matter to him because part of

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Speaker 4: it is the competitive juice, is the fact that you're

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Speaker 4: going to at least go to a minor league game,

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Speaker 4: get out there in front of a crowd, and that

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Speaker 4: might namp you up a little bit and you're able

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Speaker 4: to throw more closely to what you would actually do

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Speaker 4: during a major league game.

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Speaker 3: He would show you. We've already talked about this. That's

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Speaker 3: not going to matter.

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Speaker 4: He's going to go out there with the same purpose,

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Speaker 4: regardless if he's pitching in front of nobody at Dodger

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Speaker 4: Stadium against a bunch of dudes from Albuquerque, whoever the

398
00:17:04,358 --> 00:17:06,478
Speaker 4: Triple A team is these days. He's going to be

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Speaker 4: the same cat, same purpose, same result. So yeah, it

400
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Speaker 4: makes no difference to him. He's going to be the same.

401
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Speaker 4: He's going to go about his business the same way

402
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Speaker 4: regardless of how they set it up, and it's going

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Speaker 4: to be equally as successful.

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Speaker 1: Well, Joe, I know you to be a very good

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Speaker 1: problem solver, So we're going to take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to allow you to come up with

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Speaker 1: a solution to this problem that the Boston Red Sox have.

408
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Speaker 2: What do you do with Raphael Devers.

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Speaker 1: We'll tackle that right after this on the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe and Joe.

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Speaker 1: I can't recall a situation quite like this where a

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Speaker 1: team goes out and signs a premier free agent, in

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Speaker 1: this case, Alex Bregman to the Boston Red Sox, and

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Speaker 1: the team says, well, we don't know where he's playing yet,

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Speaker 1: and we're in spring training and players on the field.

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Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, but this is what we have.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Rafiel Dever's the incumb at third baseman and

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Speaker 1: really the franchise player by light of the fact that

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Speaker 1: you know he's signed for a gazillion years.

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Speaker 2: He's proud.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's put in a lot of work at

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Speaker 1: third base. He's not a good defender at third Statistically,

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Speaker 1: he's the worst defender at third base in the major leagues.

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Speaker 1: I happen to think he's not awful, but that she

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Speaker 1: gives you an idea what the metrics think of his

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Speaker 1: defense at third base, And anyway, he's worked hard to

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Speaker 1: get himself better and doesn't want to give that the position.

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Speaker 2: Alex Bregnan is a much better defender at third base.

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Speaker 1: And yet they're not committing whether he's going to play

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Speaker 1: second or third base, and alex Corus said, we're going

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Speaker 1: to do what's right for the Boston Red Sox. Well,

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Speaker 1: you would have done that already if you know what

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Speaker 1: the answer is, and I think they do know what

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Speaker 1: the answer is. So John going to put you at

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Speaker 1: alex Corus spikes. How the heck do you handle this situation?

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Speaker 4: First of all, before you make a trade like that

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Speaker 4: and you are acquisition like that, free agently, you talk

438
00:19:00,638 --> 00:19:02,598
Speaker 4: to Devers and say we're going to do this, okay,

439
00:19:02,678 --> 00:19:05,198
Speaker 4: and if we do this, this is what's gonna happen.

440
00:19:05,598 --> 00:19:05,958
Speaker 3: Period.

441
00:19:06,398 --> 00:19:09,198
Speaker 4: So I can't believe that was done without an advanced

442
00:19:09,238 --> 00:19:12,918
Speaker 4: conversation with him, And you can't. You can't withhold in

443
00:19:12,998 --> 00:19:16,838
Speaker 4: conversations like that. It's you know, it's uncomfortable. Guy's not

444
00:19:16,838 --> 00:19:20,198
Speaker 4: gonna like it. But this comes under the category if

445
00:19:20,238 --> 00:19:21,958
Speaker 4: I tell you the truth, you I might not like

446
00:19:21,958 --> 00:19:23,958
Speaker 4: me for a week or ten days. If I lie

447
00:19:23,998 --> 00:19:25,758
Speaker 4: to you, You're gonna hate me forever. It comes under

448
00:19:25,758 --> 00:19:30,038
Speaker 4: that category. So if there's such a disparity between the two, defensively,

449
00:19:30,078 --> 00:19:32,758
Speaker 4: and that's a big thing. Defense, you got to catch

450
00:19:32,798 --> 00:19:35,558
Speaker 4: the baseball. It's well too easy at that point. So

451
00:19:35,638 --> 00:19:39,478
Speaker 4: this to me would have been done before the acquisition.

452
00:19:39,518 --> 00:19:43,638
Speaker 4: Announcement was announcement before beyond that, You've got to know

453
00:19:43,678 --> 00:19:45,838
Speaker 4: the answer that you had to assume the questions. You

454
00:19:45,838 --> 00:19:48,038
Speaker 4: have to know the answer before the questions asked. I mean,

455
00:19:48,118 --> 00:19:50,758
Speaker 4: we always did that. You know a lot of times

456
00:19:50,758 --> 00:19:54,198
Speaker 4: front offices don't want to put it right out there.

457
00:19:54,558 --> 00:19:56,958
Speaker 4: There's a little dissembling going on. And so if I

458
00:19:57,038 --> 00:19:58,438
Speaker 4: knew it was gonna be one of those moments, I

459
00:19:58,438 --> 00:20:01,478
Speaker 4: would ask Arv or Peter or somebody, what is Perry think?

460
00:20:01,518 --> 00:20:05,318
Speaker 4: What is THEO think? What does Andrew think about this situation?

461
00:20:05,318 --> 00:20:07,038
Speaker 4: I needed to know that first because I did not

462
00:20:07,078 --> 00:20:09,478
Speaker 4: want to present I'd be contradictory to them.

463
00:20:09,478 --> 00:20:11,878
Speaker 3: But I wanted Jack Ryan. I wanted to.

464
00:20:11,798 --> 00:20:14,758
Speaker 4: Be perfectly honest, tell him straight up, because when you

465
00:20:14,798 --> 00:20:16,398
Speaker 4: do that, everything goes way more quickly.

466
00:20:16,518 --> 00:20:16,838
Speaker 3: Period.

467
00:20:17,398 --> 00:20:19,358
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Jod, I'd love to get your take on this.

468
00:20:19,518 --> 00:20:21,838
Speaker 1: You know, Dallas Green is not managing anymore. You know,

469
00:20:21,878 --> 00:20:24,198
Speaker 1: it's my way or a highway. So for the people

470
00:20:24,198 --> 00:20:26,198
Speaker 1: who are going to say, well, they're paying him a

471
00:20:26,238 --> 00:20:28,238
Speaker 1: lot of money, just go be the DH or go

472
00:20:28,318 --> 00:20:30,118
Speaker 1: be the first whatever it is, give up third base,

473
00:20:30,198 --> 00:20:31,798
Speaker 1: do what the team tells you to do. I don't

474
00:20:31,838 --> 00:20:34,638
Speaker 1: subscribe to that theory. Not in today's game. Rafael Devers

475
00:20:34,678 --> 00:20:36,558
Speaker 1: is an All star player. He's a franchise player at

476
00:20:36,558 --> 00:20:39,958
Speaker 1: the Boston Red Sox. He's a prideful guy. I don't

477
00:20:40,038 --> 00:20:43,038
Speaker 1: begrudge a player, and I don't see it as selfish Joe.

478
00:20:43,078 --> 00:20:43,598
Speaker 2: I really don't.

479
00:20:43,638 --> 00:20:46,798
Speaker 1: Don't forget when he signed his contract. Originally the Red

480
00:20:46,838 --> 00:20:49,678
Speaker 1: Sox signed him to be their long term third basement

481
00:20:49,718 --> 00:20:52,358
Speaker 1: and I'm not buying the argument from Alex Korra that well,

482
00:20:52,438 --> 00:20:54,998
Speaker 1: hein Bloom was in charge, then he's not here anymore. No,

483
00:20:55,078 --> 00:20:58,358
Speaker 1: that's a franchise commitment to the guy, so listen. I

484
00:20:58,438 --> 00:21:00,798
Speaker 1: do think eventually they're going to have to explain to

485
00:21:00,878 --> 00:21:02,958
Speaker 1: him why this is best for Boston and for him.

486
00:21:02,958 --> 00:21:05,118
Speaker 1: By the way, I mean, David Ortiz had a pretty

487
00:21:05,118 --> 00:21:07,558
Speaker 1: good career as a DH in Boston, right, So I

488
00:21:07,678 --> 00:21:11,238
Speaker 1: don't begrudge him being reluctant to move. But there's going

489
00:21:11,318 --> 00:21:12,918
Speaker 1: to be a point where they're going to have to

490
00:21:12,958 --> 00:21:14,078
Speaker 1: convince him to move.

491
00:21:14,558 --> 00:21:14,758
Speaker 3: Yeah.

492
00:21:14,758 --> 00:21:17,678
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's there's going to be that big push conversationally

493
00:21:17,678 --> 00:21:21,958
Speaker 4: whether it's big Poppy. Anybody within their fold that's influential,

494
00:21:22,038 --> 00:21:25,838
Speaker 4: that really influential, particularly to him, is going to get

495
00:21:25,838 --> 00:21:27,478
Speaker 4: on board and carry on that conversation.

496
00:21:28,358 --> 00:21:30,358
Speaker 3: But for me, you have to do what you think

497
00:21:30,478 --> 00:21:33,678
Speaker 3: is right. I don't know if that's considered old school

498
00:21:33,718 --> 00:21:35,918
Speaker 3: or is it's just pragmatic. You got to do.

499
00:21:36,518 --> 00:21:38,358
Speaker 4: You're in charge, You're the grown up, You're the adult

500
00:21:38,358 --> 00:21:40,518
Speaker 4: in a room. At some point, somebody's got to be

501
00:21:40,558 --> 00:21:43,078
Speaker 4: an adult. Every Nobody likes to be an adult anymore.

502
00:21:43,198 --> 00:21:46,478
Speaker 4: Nobody wants to make decisions anymore. Sometimes they're tough, and

503
00:21:46,518 --> 00:21:47,838
Speaker 4: the conversations are difficult.

504
00:21:47,918 --> 00:21:48,478
Speaker 3: I get it.

505
00:21:48,918 --> 00:21:52,038
Speaker 4: But yes, there's got to be probably some kind of

506
00:21:52,678 --> 00:21:55,198
Speaker 4: in advanced kind of work done, and I'd say Poppy

507
00:21:55,278 --> 00:21:56,758
Speaker 4: might be the spearheading that whole thing.

508
00:21:56,798 --> 00:21:57,278
Speaker 3: Who knows.

509
00:21:57,718 --> 00:22:00,398
Speaker 4: But at the end, if you truly believe the team

510
00:22:00,478 --> 00:22:02,958
Speaker 4: is better with Bregman a third, then you got to

511
00:22:02,958 --> 00:22:04,838
Speaker 4: do it. I mean, I can't even imagine going out

512
00:22:04,838 --> 00:22:06,718
Speaker 4: there and starting the game if I didn't, if you

513
00:22:06,758 --> 00:22:09,798
Speaker 4: didn't think that was true, I'm trying to quickly trying

514
00:22:09,798 --> 00:22:12,918
Speaker 4: to think. I had conversations with you know, Schwerber always

515
00:22:12,918 --> 00:22:14,918
Speaker 4: wanted to catch but of course that wasn't gonna happen.

516
00:22:15,998 --> 00:22:18,158
Speaker 4: You know that the when I had three outfielders with

517
00:22:18,198 --> 00:22:21,598
Speaker 4: a more App and Schwerber all wanting and only two

518
00:22:21,598 --> 00:22:23,878
Speaker 4: spots on a nightly basis, I'd have some really difficult

519
00:22:23,878 --> 00:22:27,398
Speaker 4: conversations with those three guys because nobody liked it.

520
00:22:27,558 --> 00:22:28,158
Speaker 3: Nobody liked it.

521
00:22:28,198 --> 00:22:29,518
Speaker 4: But at the end, you have to do what you

522
00:22:29,558 --> 00:22:31,958
Speaker 4: think is right. Somebody's got a platoon all of a sudden.

523
00:22:31,958 --> 00:22:33,918
Speaker 4: I'm not a platoon player. I can hit left these, okay,

524
00:22:33,918 --> 00:22:36,038
Speaker 4: but right now we're not set up that way.

525
00:22:36,878 --> 00:22:37,478
Speaker 3: Just be honest.

526
00:22:37,518 --> 00:22:40,278
Speaker 4: If you're just honest with whoever you're speaking with, to me,

527
00:22:40,398 --> 00:22:42,958
Speaker 4: that's the best way for this to go away more quickly,

528
00:22:43,518 --> 00:22:46,038
Speaker 4: and you're gonna get what you think is the right

529
00:22:46,078 --> 00:22:48,158
Speaker 4: way to do things, and then you move forward.

530
00:22:48,438 --> 00:22:49,998
Speaker 1: Okay, So what do you do with the player who

531
00:22:50,078 --> 00:22:52,958
Speaker 1: does not want to be there? Nolan Aronato another All

532
00:22:52,958 --> 00:22:55,038
Speaker 1: star third basement? Yeah, you know, I'm just saying he

533
00:22:55,038 --> 00:22:56,558
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be in Saint Louis.

534
00:22:56,598 --> 00:22:57,118
Speaker 2: He's a pro.

535
00:22:57,198 --> 00:22:59,398
Speaker 1: I get that, but let's face it, he did want

536
00:22:59,438 --> 00:23:01,798
Speaker 1: to be traded. The team told him all winter long,

537
00:23:02,158 --> 00:23:04,718
Speaker 1: we will accommodate you. Well, they did they thought they

538
00:23:04,718 --> 00:23:08,998
Speaker 1: had a deal worked out with Houston. He apparently used

539
00:23:08,998 --> 00:23:11,238
Speaker 1: his no trade clause to turn that down. We don't

540
00:23:11,238 --> 00:23:13,118
Speaker 1: know that for sure. All we know is that when

541
00:23:13,118 --> 00:23:16,278
Speaker 1: Nolan met reporters in spring training, he talked about the

542
00:23:16,318 --> 00:23:18,878
Speaker 1: lies quote unquote that we're told he didn't specify what

543
00:23:18,958 --> 00:23:21,318
Speaker 1: was out there that was not true. But in any case,

544
00:23:21,718 --> 00:23:24,838
Speaker 1: you know, you spent the entire off season talking about

545
00:23:24,878 --> 00:23:27,878
Speaker 1: trading Nolan Aernato and now here he is back with you.

546
00:23:28,758 --> 00:23:32,798
Speaker 1: So you're Ali Marmol, you're the manager, Joe, you know,

547
00:23:32,838 --> 00:23:35,878
Speaker 1: and again he's a pro. I get that, but this

548
00:23:36,278 --> 00:23:39,558
Speaker 1: is something you'd rather have resolved than carrying this. I

549
00:23:39,598 --> 00:23:41,318
Speaker 1: don't want to call it a dilemma because there's a

550
00:23:41,318 --> 00:23:43,558
Speaker 1: way out, but this problem into the season.

551
00:23:44,158 --> 00:23:47,038
Speaker 4: You're almost describing the dever situation. Had he known about

552
00:23:47,038 --> 00:23:49,398
Speaker 4: Bregmant and that it did not happen, I mean, or

553
00:23:49,478 --> 00:23:51,278
Speaker 4: not expected to be traded the whole time, and then

554
00:23:51,278 --> 00:23:54,558
Speaker 4: it did not happen. So there's all this. It's just

555
00:23:54,598 --> 00:23:57,238
Speaker 4: it's it's tough, it's difficult, it's it's kind of like

556
00:23:57,278 --> 00:24:01,158
Speaker 4: a bad faith situation. And even though a professional is

557
00:24:01,158 --> 00:24:04,558
Speaker 4: going to say the right things, publicly, which you should

558
00:24:05,558 --> 00:24:06,558
Speaker 4: privately behind.

559
00:24:07,238 --> 00:24:08,198
Speaker 3: It's not gonna be the same.

560
00:24:08,238 --> 00:24:12,598
Speaker 4: The conversations when nobody's looking by the water cooler, et cetera.

561
00:24:12,598 --> 00:24:13,878
Speaker 3: Are going to be completely different.

562
00:24:14,438 --> 00:24:17,598
Speaker 4: And all of this stuff, really it's going to tear

563
00:24:17,638 --> 00:24:18,878
Speaker 4: it the fabric of them, I believe.

564
00:24:18,918 --> 00:24:21,558
Speaker 3: I don't see it any other way. It's very difficult

565
00:24:21,598 --> 00:24:23,638
Speaker 3: for a young any manager, not just a young manager

566
00:24:23,678 --> 00:24:25,358
Speaker 3: to have to put up with this.

567
00:24:25,438 --> 00:24:28,958
Speaker 4: This the daily conversation, the cynical comments, all these kinds

568
00:24:28,958 --> 00:24:31,478
Speaker 4: of things that are going to occur and just truly

569
00:24:32,038 --> 00:24:34,558
Speaker 4: don't permit you to advance it and moving forward, et cetera.

570
00:24:34,958 --> 00:24:36,198
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't even know if to the point

571
00:24:36,238 --> 00:24:39,478
Speaker 4: if they would eventually release them, which I doubt, and

572
00:24:39,518 --> 00:24:40,878
Speaker 4: just suck up the money and just let them go

573
00:24:40,918 --> 00:24:43,558
Speaker 4: somewhere else. Under those circumstances, I believe some kind of

574
00:24:43,558 --> 00:24:46,558
Speaker 4: a tray is gonna happen. Somebody's gonna get hurt this camp,

575
00:24:46,598 --> 00:24:48,798
Speaker 4: and or you know, maybe the Yankees would fill it.

576
00:24:48,838 --> 00:24:49,278
Speaker 3: I don't know.

577
00:24:49,318 --> 00:24:51,478
Speaker 4: But the Cardinal's gonna have to pick up a lot

578
00:24:51,478 --> 00:24:53,158
Speaker 4: of that money. Whatever that money is out there, the

579
00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:54,598
Speaker 4: Cardinals are gonna have to pick up a lot of

580
00:24:54,638 --> 00:24:57,558
Speaker 4: that in order to make it more attractive, somebody, preferably

581
00:24:57,638 --> 00:25:00,678
Speaker 4: somebody that the pull side of the field's right hand

582
00:25:00,798 --> 00:25:03,118
Speaker 4: pull side of the field is more amenable.

583
00:25:03,118 --> 00:25:03,718
Speaker 3: And I don't even know.

584
00:25:03,758 --> 00:25:05,998
Speaker 4: What I'd have to think about that more deeply, but

585
00:25:06,598 --> 00:25:09,238
Speaker 4: a good team somebody gets hurt spring training number one,

586
00:25:09,278 --> 00:25:11,478
Speaker 4: number two got to take a lot of that money.

587
00:25:11,558 --> 00:25:15,558
Speaker 4: Number three pull side, somebody that has an advantageous pull

588
00:25:15,638 --> 00:25:18,438
Speaker 4: side to a right handed hit or field might take

589
00:25:18,438 --> 00:25:20,358
Speaker 4: a run at it, eating a third basement or a

590
00:25:20,398 --> 00:25:21,038
Speaker 4: first basement.

591
00:25:21,278 --> 00:25:23,598
Speaker 1: Well, let's stay on our theme of our all star

592
00:25:23,718 --> 00:25:27,038
Speaker 1: spring training lineup and talk about Vladimir Guerrero. You know,

593
00:25:27,078 --> 00:25:29,958
Speaker 1: he said a deadline. I wanted a contract extension before

594
00:25:29,998 --> 00:25:34,118
Speaker 1: spring training starts, otherwise I'm going into free agency, and

595
00:25:34,238 --> 00:25:37,158
Speaker 1: it did not happen. I'm not surprised it didn't happen.

596
00:25:37,838 --> 00:25:40,398
Speaker 1: Not necessarily because of the one SODO contract, which I

597
00:25:40,398 --> 00:25:43,718
Speaker 1: think is an extreme outlier. Very few comps to one Sodo,

598
00:25:44,638 --> 00:25:46,838
Speaker 1: but because you know, this guy is one year away

599
00:25:46,838 --> 00:25:48,718
Speaker 1: from free agency and he just had a killer year

600
00:25:48,838 --> 00:25:50,918
Speaker 1: last season. He's betting on himself, and why not have

601
00:25:50,958 --> 00:25:54,118
Speaker 1: the choice of twenty nine teams unless your incumbent team

602
00:25:54,158 --> 00:25:54,918
Speaker 1: blows you away.

603
00:25:54,958 --> 00:25:56,398
Speaker 2: Apparently that did not happen.

604
00:25:57,078 --> 00:25:59,238
Speaker 1: So Joe, I'm saying you might as well book it

605
00:25:59,318 --> 00:26:02,478
Speaker 1: right now that Vladimir Guerrero is going to be the biggest.

606
00:26:02,158 --> 00:26:03,838
Speaker 2: Name out there at the trade deadline in July.

607
00:26:04,518 --> 00:26:06,678
Speaker 1: I can't see them playing this out and thinking they're

608
00:26:06,718 --> 00:26:08,558
Speaker 1: going to re sign him. And I listen, the Yankees

609
00:26:08,598 --> 00:26:09,558
Speaker 1: did that with Aaron Judge.

610
00:26:09,598 --> 00:26:11,958
Speaker 2: I get it. It's not like it hasn't happened before, but.

611
00:26:11,918 --> 00:26:14,718
Speaker 1: They spent a long time and they could never come

612
00:26:14,798 --> 00:26:17,038
Speaker 1: close to an agreement on what his value is.

613
00:26:17,078 --> 00:26:18,878
Speaker 2: And the other thing, Joe and I know this happened

614
00:26:18,878 --> 00:26:19,558
Speaker 2: with Moan Soto.

615
00:26:19,718 --> 00:26:23,118
Speaker 1: It's very difficult for Toronto to tell vlad or anybody else,

616
00:26:23,598 --> 00:26:25,878
Speaker 1: we will sign you to a long term contract and

617
00:26:25,918 --> 00:26:28,998
Speaker 1: we will contend for a championship every one of those years.

618
00:26:29,118 --> 00:26:31,998
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, they're just not there yet. They can't use

619
00:26:32,078 --> 00:26:34,198
Speaker 1: that as a selling point. This is the team last

620
00:26:34,238 --> 00:26:36,638
Speaker 1: year that was twenty ninth in the major leagues in Bullpen.

621
00:26:36,878 --> 00:26:39,918
Speaker 1: I don't know what their plan is. They seem to

622
00:26:39,958 --> 00:26:43,798
Speaker 1: be scattershot when it comes to what's available in the offseason,

623
00:26:43,878 --> 00:26:45,758
Speaker 1: or try to sign this guy and we don't well,

624
00:26:45,798 --> 00:26:48,158
Speaker 1: we'll just go maybe this guy. You know, it's like

625
00:26:48,158 --> 00:26:50,958
Speaker 1: they're going browsing in a clothing store. You don't go

626
00:26:50,998 --> 00:26:52,558
Speaker 1: in there thinking what you want. You just say, well,

627
00:26:52,558 --> 00:26:55,318
Speaker 1: what catches my eye. I don't see a plan, and

628
00:26:55,398 --> 00:26:59,038
Speaker 1: I think Guerrero is the way forward, the way O'tani

629
00:26:59,358 --> 00:27:01,758
Speaker 1: was for the Angels in his walk year. But the

630
00:27:01,798 --> 00:27:04,358
Speaker 1: Angels at least got close enough to think, let's play

631
00:27:04,358 --> 00:27:06,558
Speaker 1: it out. I'm not sure Toronto's even going to be

632
00:27:06,558 --> 00:27:10,438
Speaker 1: there in July, so listen, I'm not blaming anybody here.

633
00:27:10,478 --> 00:27:13,238
Speaker 1: I just think, again, you borrow your word about pragmatism,

634
00:27:13,958 --> 00:27:16,638
Speaker 1: so I'm looking at it pragmatically that they're probably going

635
00:27:16,678 --> 00:27:18,078
Speaker 1: to be in a situation where you have to be

636
00:27:18,118 --> 00:27:22,038
Speaker 1: realistic that are odds of re signing Ladd trying so

637
00:27:22,158 --> 00:27:24,918
Speaker 1: hard through the winter to meet this deadline didn't work out.

638
00:27:25,398 --> 00:27:27,918
Speaker 2: Be realistic, see what you can get right exactly.

639
00:27:27,918 --> 00:27:31,238
Speaker 4: I think the decision is way to the trade deadline

640
00:27:31,278 --> 00:27:32,918
Speaker 4: to get as much as we possibly can, because they're

641
00:27:32,918 --> 00:27:34,558
Speaker 4: also probably going to bet that you're going to see

642
00:27:34,678 --> 00:27:36,278
Speaker 4: he had a great year last year, it's probably going

643
00:27:36,318 --> 00:27:38,238
Speaker 4: to be better this year. To try try to prove

644
00:27:38,278 --> 00:27:40,958
Speaker 4: a point going into free agent year also, so I

645
00:27:40,958 --> 00:27:43,398
Speaker 4: think they got it on both sides. They should see

646
00:27:43,398 --> 00:27:45,158
Speaker 4: the best of him up until the point they have

647
00:27:45,158 --> 00:27:46,918
Speaker 4: to get rid of him, and who knows. Like you said,

648
00:27:46,958 --> 00:27:48,238
Speaker 4: if all of a sudden you're in some kind of

649
00:27:48,278 --> 00:27:50,838
Speaker 4: a race, maybe you hold your cards right there and

650
00:27:51,078 --> 00:27:53,958
Speaker 4: you're moving forward. Although the thing with the Otani, you

651
00:27:53,998 --> 00:27:55,598
Speaker 4: could argue that was still not the right thing to

652
00:27:55,638 --> 00:27:57,598
Speaker 4: do for the Angels and they missed an opportunity to

653
00:27:57,718 --> 00:27:59,918
Speaker 4: do the Herschel Walker thing and didn't do it.

654
00:28:00,198 --> 00:28:02,198
Speaker 2: They did, but I still can't blame him.

655
00:28:02,238 --> 00:28:04,638
Speaker 1: They are playing well at that time, were within a

656
00:28:04,958 --> 00:28:06,798
Speaker 1: I think it was less than a handful of games

657
00:28:06,838 --> 00:28:09,358
Speaker 1: of the wildcard. Hadn't seen the playoffs in forever, I

658
00:28:09,558 --> 00:28:11,838
Speaker 1: understood it. Was it the right thing to do. I

659
00:28:11,918 --> 00:28:13,678
Speaker 1: don't know, but if I'm a player and I'm trying

660
00:28:13,678 --> 00:28:16,078
Speaker 1: to win, I would not have pulled the plug on

661
00:28:16,158 --> 00:28:18,638
Speaker 1: that season. As far as team building, You're absolutely right.

662
00:28:19,158 --> 00:28:21,318
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I would have pulled the plug. But anyway,

663
00:28:21,358 --> 00:28:23,638
Speaker 4: that's that's exactly what's gonna happen this year with Toronto.

664
00:28:23,678 --> 00:28:25,558
Speaker 4: I think they're gonna be faced. But that kind of

665
00:28:25,598 --> 00:28:27,878
Speaker 4: Sophie's choice right there, at the end, they're gonna have

666
00:28:27,918 --> 00:28:29,718
Speaker 4: to make it. But you're gonna see Vlad play as

667
00:28:29,758 --> 00:28:32,158
Speaker 4: well as he possibly can. He's gonna be very attractive.

668
00:28:32,158 --> 00:28:34,078
Speaker 4: And I guess he's gotten in better shape too, correct

669
00:28:34,118 --> 00:28:36,638
Speaker 4: He's actually done some Yeah, it looks good bodywork, So

670
00:28:36,758 --> 00:28:38,838
Speaker 4: I mean that that has to be considered also. I know,

671
00:28:39,398 --> 00:28:42,798
Speaker 4: was he twenty six, twenty seven years of age? You

672
00:28:42,878 --> 00:28:45,918
Speaker 4: know that particular position. We've talked about it with Alonzo.

673
00:28:46,518 --> 00:28:49,518
Speaker 4: How the industry have viewsed that position in the steep

674
00:28:49,558 --> 00:28:51,438
Speaker 4: decline of it. I mean, all this stuff is being

675
00:28:51,598 --> 00:28:53,998
Speaker 4: calculated within the analytical departments, There's no.

676
00:28:54,118 --> 00:28:56,998
Speaker 3: Question about it. But I think you can see come

677
00:28:57,198 --> 00:28:59,918
Speaker 3: trade time, even if they're like somewhat in it, he's

678
00:28:59,918 --> 00:29:02,078
Speaker 3: still gonna go. They're not gonna do what the Angels did.

679
00:29:02,118 --> 00:29:04,558
Speaker 4: They're gonna they will pull the tra or because if

680
00:29:04,598 --> 00:29:06,878
Speaker 4: it's an opportunity to rebuild it, they get names that

681
00:29:06,918 --> 00:29:09,598
Speaker 4: they really think can't put them back on the right path.

682
00:29:09,638 --> 00:29:10,318
Speaker 3: I think they would do it.

683
00:29:10,718 --> 00:29:14,078
Speaker 1: We're not done yet, we promised you Aaron Judge Juan Sota,

684
00:29:14,278 --> 00:29:16,958
Speaker 1: and we will get to them right after this quick

685
00:29:17,038 --> 00:29:32,478
Speaker 1: break on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the

686
00:29:32,518 --> 00:29:35,678
Speaker 1: Book of Joe, Podcasts and Joe. I'm not sure if

687
00:29:35,718 --> 00:29:39,078
Speaker 1: you saw this. The quote from Aaron Judge caught my eye.

688
00:29:39,278 --> 00:29:40,958
Speaker 1: Of course, you know when he shows up in camp

689
00:29:41,038 --> 00:29:43,838
Speaker 1: and spring training, just like Derek Jeter, every year it's

690
00:29:43,878 --> 00:29:46,278
Speaker 1: a news event, you have the press conference. Aaron's a

691
00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:48,798
Speaker 1: very smart guy. He wants to win as much as anybody.

692
00:29:49,278 --> 00:29:51,838
Speaker 1: But this one quote really caught my eye. Just it

693
00:29:52,038 --> 00:29:54,358
Speaker 1: speaks to how much it hurt him for this team

694
00:29:54,398 --> 00:29:56,158
Speaker 1: to get to the World Series last year and to

695
00:29:56,238 --> 00:29:57,958
Speaker 1: lose it. Remember that was the first time he got

696
00:29:57,958 --> 00:30:00,118
Speaker 1: to the World Series, first time for the Yankees, and

697
00:30:00,198 --> 00:30:05,078
Speaker 1: so nine he said, getting to the dance and losing

698
00:30:05,238 --> 00:30:11,758
Speaker 1: out definitely is a lot worse than not even getting there. Wow,

699
00:30:12,078 --> 00:30:15,518
Speaker 1: that caught my attention. I mean, I'd rather take the

700
00:30:15,638 --> 00:30:17,718
Speaker 1: chance and get in there. I understand the pain of

701
00:30:17,798 --> 00:30:19,798
Speaker 1: losing the World Series. You want to finish it off.

702
00:30:21,038 --> 00:30:23,158
Speaker 1: From the Yankees case, they got within three wins of

703
00:30:23,158 --> 00:30:25,318
Speaker 1: a World Championship, so you get so close to it

704
00:30:25,358 --> 00:30:28,118
Speaker 1: you can almost taste it. But man, I want the opportunity.

705
00:30:28,438 --> 00:30:30,158
Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys who had great careers and

706
00:30:30,318 --> 00:30:32,598
Speaker 1: never even got a chance to play in the World Series.

707
00:30:32,598 --> 00:30:35,318
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to how much last year's defeating

708
00:30:35,318 --> 00:30:36,758
Speaker 1: the World Series hurt Aaron Judge.

709
00:30:37,398 --> 00:30:39,798
Speaker 3: I agree with you just getting to the dance.

710
00:30:39,838 --> 00:30:41,758
Speaker 4: When you look up at the scoreboard, there's no other

711
00:30:41,918 --> 00:30:44,038
Speaker 4: major league games going on that night, It's just this

712
00:30:44,198 --> 00:30:44,678
Speaker 4: one game.

713
00:30:45,118 --> 00:30:46,918
Speaker 3: And I used to look at that going through the playoffs.

714
00:30:46,918 --> 00:30:48,238
Speaker 4: You would look to see how many names are on

715
00:30:48,318 --> 00:30:51,438
Speaker 4: the board, how many teams are still playing, keep erasing

716
00:30:51,478 --> 00:30:54,198
Speaker 4: those names, you racing those names till finally just two

717
00:30:54,278 --> 00:30:56,878
Speaker 4: teams are standing. It went through it both ways, one

718
00:30:56,918 --> 00:30:58,558
Speaker 4: with the Angels in two thousand and two in the

719
00:30:58,598 --> 00:31:02,718
Speaker 4: Cubs and sixteen lost with the Rays. It's disheartening. It

720
00:31:02,838 --> 00:31:04,798
Speaker 4: was tough with losing with the He's had that really

721
00:31:04,958 --> 00:31:08,838
Speaker 4: harsh weather. World Series in Philadelphia was awful. I mean

722
00:31:08,878 --> 00:31:11,398
Speaker 4: the worst weather I've ever been on a baseball field.

723
00:31:11,438 --> 00:31:13,678
Speaker 4: It was more like a bad football day. But you

724
00:31:13,838 --> 00:31:16,598
Speaker 4: got there and it definitely does something for you for

725
00:31:16,758 --> 00:31:20,358
Speaker 4: your group. It definitely the Yankees don't need to have

726
00:31:20,438 --> 00:31:25,358
Speaker 4: their organization catapult it. You know, Uncharted Waters territory. They've

727
00:31:25,398 --> 00:31:27,798
Speaker 4: been there. I understand that, but especially for a guy

728
00:31:27,878 --> 00:31:29,758
Speaker 4: that had never been there to that point, I think

729
00:31:29,798 --> 00:31:32,998
Speaker 4: it should do something. I want to get back there.

730
00:31:33,078 --> 00:31:34,078
Speaker 4: I want to be there again.

731
00:31:34,198 --> 00:31:34,638
Speaker 3: I love this.

732
00:31:34,798 --> 00:31:37,918
Speaker 4: It's the only way to approach this season. I don't

733
00:31:37,918 --> 00:31:39,198
Speaker 4: even know what I was talking to the other day.

734
00:31:39,198 --> 00:31:41,918
Speaker 4: I was writing some might have been somebody, But you know,

735
00:31:41,998 --> 00:31:43,678
Speaker 4: I don't even know how many teams go to spring

736
00:31:43,758 --> 00:31:45,998
Speaker 4: training with the objective of going to the World Series anymore.

737
00:31:46,438 --> 00:31:48,318
Speaker 4: They just go into spring training hoping they can make

738
00:31:48,358 --> 00:31:51,878
Speaker 4: the World's playoffs. Because we've talked about it, the percentage

739
00:31:51,918 --> 00:31:53,598
Speaker 4: of a number of games that takes, not even just

740
00:31:53,718 --> 00:31:56,038
Speaker 4: get to the playoffs. That seems to be more of

741
00:31:56,158 --> 00:31:59,478
Speaker 4: the goal, and then that is calculated and adjusted as

742
00:31:59,518 --> 00:32:02,998
Speaker 4: the seasons in progress. So even the methodology the way

743
00:32:03,038 --> 00:32:04,958
Speaker 4: people think anymore, it's not even about we're going to

744
00:32:04,998 --> 00:32:06,678
Speaker 4: go to camp and our goals to go to the

745
00:32:06,718 --> 00:32:09,038
Speaker 4: World Series and play the last game of the season

746
00:32:09,118 --> 00:32:09,478
Speaker 4: and win it.

747
00:32:09,718 --> 00:32:10,238
Speaker 3: I don't hear that.

748
00:32:10,438 --> 00:32:12,798
Speaker 4: I mean I look at columns, I look at read

749
00:32:12,838 --> 00:32:16,318
Speaker 4: different things, and rare that anybody talks about winning the

750
00:32:16,358 --> 00:32:19,238
Speaker 4: World Series annually and you should. I mean, of course,

751
00:32:19,278 --> 00:32:22,118
Speaker 4: it's it's difficult, probably not chances are it's not going

752
00:32:22,158 --> 00:32:23,518
Speaker 4: to happen, but you got to go believe in that

753
00:32:23,598 --> 00:32:27,238
Speaker 4: it will so for me, a guy like Judge, that's

754
00:32:27,278 --> 00:32:30,198
Speaker 4: a taste and he didn't have a great postseason overall.

755
00:32:30,278 --> 00:32:32,758
Speaker 4: So this hopefully that he's learning from this and you're

756
00:32:32,758 --> 00:32:35,318
Speaker 4: going to see an even better version of Aaron the

757
00:32:35,358 --> 00:32:38,638
Speaker 4: next time he gets there. Because yeah, listen, brother, you're

758
00:32:38,678 --> 00:32:40,518
Speaker 4: one of the last two teams stand and it's pretty cool.

759
00:32:40,878 --> 00:32:43,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you said that too about aiming high.

760
00:32:44,038 --> 00:32:46,038
Speaker 1: You know, Dave Roberts, I think it was two years ago.

761
00:32:46,038 --> 00:32:47,878
Speaker 1: It might have been three years ago. Now I said

762
00:32:47,918 --> 00:32:50,598
Speaker 1: exactly that I guarantee. I'm I'm sure we used the

763
00:32:50,598 --> 00:32:52,158
Speaker 1: word guarantee. But he said we're going to win the

764
00:32:52,198 --> 00:32:54,918
Speaker 1: World Series, and people looked at him like he had

765
00:32:54,918 --> 00:32:58,398
Speaker 1: two heads. I mean, you're a major league manager, that

766
00:32:58,558 --> 00:33:00,438
Speaker 1: should be your goal, especially when you have a really

767
00:33:00,438 --> 00:33:03,398
Speaker 1: good team, rather than saying, we just want to get

768
00:33:03,398 --> 00:33:04,798
Speaker 1: in the postse and see what happens.

769
00:33:04,838 --> 00:33:06,318
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of that that's going on.

770
00:33:06,438 --> 00:33:08,598
Speaker 1: I understand the postseason now, it's got the feel of

771
00:33:08,678 --> 00:33:09,358
Speaker 1: March madness.

772
00:33:10,038 --> 00:33:13,078
Speaker 2: Anything can happen. We pointed this out before that.

773
00:33:13,598 --> 00:33:16,398
Speaker 1: I think it's in the last four to five years

774
00:33:16,558 --> 00:33:18,998
Speaker 1: that the teams that are playing for the World Series birth,

775
00:33:19,118 --> 00:33:22,718
Speaker 1: the LCS teams in each league average only ninety wins.

776
00:33:22,838 --> 00:33:24,878
Speaker 2: Half of them had ninety wins or fewer.

777
00:33:25,198 --> 00:33:26,758
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of that thinking in the game

778
00:33:26,838 --> 00:33:30,158
Speaker 1: now that let's just get in and then we'll see

779
00:33:30,198 --> 00:33:32,998
Speaker 1: what happens in the postseason. So I'm with you, don't

780
00:33:32,998 --> 00:33:34,638
Speaker 1: be afraid to say, if you've got a really good team,

781
00:33:34,678 --> 00:33:36,558
Speaker 1: you believe in your guys, our goals to win the

782
00:33:36,598 --> 00:33:37,198
Speaker 1: World Series.

783
00:33:37,478 --> 00:33:40,318
Speaker 2: It should not be a knock against anybody, by the way.

784
00:33:40,318 --> 00:33:43,478
Speaker 1: You know, I hopefully nothing too much is made out

785
00:33:43,478 --> 00:33:46,958
Speaker 1: of this, But of course Juan Soto talked about he

786
00:33:47,198 --> 00:33:49,358
Speaker 1: thinks his chances with the Mets over the next fifteen

787
00:33:49,438 --> 00:33:52,078
Speaker 1: years that's the life of his contract, are better than

788
00:33:52,158 --> 00:33:55,998
Speaker 1: it would be with the Yankees, and Aaron Judge politely disagreed,

789
00:33:56,038 --> 00:33:57,038
Speaker 1: as really should right.

790
00:33:57,078 --> 00:33:59,278
Speaker 2: I mean, these guys are exactly where they want to be.

791
00:33:59,478 --> 00:34:03,038
Speaker 1: They signed long term contracts with eyes wide open, chose

792
00:34:03,158 --> 00:34:05,158
Speaker 1: where they want to play, and that's exactly what they

793
00:34:05,198 --> 00:34:08,958
Speaker 1: should say that they play. They chose places where they

794
00:34:09,038 --> 00:34:11,518
Speaker 1: think they have the best chances to win, if not

795
00:34:11,678 --> 00:34:16,318
Speaker 1: one championship, multiple championships. But Joe does bring up at

796
00:34:16,398 --> 00:34:20,598
Speaker 1: least an interesting philosophical question that in a vacuum, and

797
00:34:20,678 --> 00:34:24,038
Speaker 1: if you're a free agent, and let's not throw terms

798
00:34:24,078 --> 00:34:25,598
Speaker 1: in here, but you're a free agent you want to

799
00:34:25,678 --> 00:34:27,278
Speaker 1: bank on. Let's say you're buying a stock and the

800
00:34:27,358 --> 00:34:30,558
Speaker 1: Mets are the Yankees for the next fifteen years. What

801
00:34:30,758 --> 00:34:32,598
Speaker 1: stock you're buying Mets are Yankees?

802
00:34:33,718 --> 00:34:36,038
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think the needle's pointing in a

803
00:34:36,078 --> 00:34:39,118
Speaker 4: different direction, right, And it's just based on the willingness

804
00:34:39,398 --> 00:34:41,078
Speaker 4: of the owner to spend money. That's really what it

805
00:34:41,158 --> 00:34:44,718
Speaker 4: comes down to. I think, you know, both organizations are wonderful.

806
00:34:45,198 --> 00:34:47,238
Speaker 4: I just saw Brian Cashman the other night at our

807
00:34:47,278 --> 00:34:50,038
Speaker 4: restaurant AVA here in town. Had a great conversation with him.

808
00:34:50,998 --> 00:34:53,718
Speaker 4: I don't know Stearns that well, and I don't know

809
00:34:53,758 --> 00:34:56,478
Speaker 4: the owners have not really met the Steinbenders or Cohen.

810
00:34:56,558 --> 00:35:01,318
Speaker 4: But the willingness to spend money, just like in Los Angeles,

811
00:35:01,358 --> 00:35:02,878
Speaker 4: I guess the needle is always going to point in

812
00:35:02,958 --> 00:35:03,398
Speaker 4: that direction.

813
00:35:03,558 --> 00:35:04,638
Speaker 3: That's that's the difference.

814
00:35:04,878 --> 00:35:09,158
Speaker 4: We're not arguing whether there's better baseball acumen on either side,

815
00:35:09,278 --> 00:35:12,038
Speaker 4: or there's better baseball people on either side. That's not

816
00:35:12,198 --> 00:35:14,558
Speaker 4: the question. The question is who's willing to spend more

817
00:35:14,598 --> 00:35:17,158
Speaker 4: money in order to achieve this particular thing. And I

818
00:35:17,478 --> 00:35:19,918
Speaker 4: keep bring about Cohen and it's just like I guess,

819
00:35:19,958 --> 00:35:21,638
Speaker 4: when he sees a piece of art that he loves,

820
00:35:21,678 --> 00:35:24,598
Speaker 4: he buys it regardless of the price. So when he

821
00:35:24,678 --> 00:35:27,838
Speaker 4: sees a Soto that he likes, he buys it regardless

822
00:35:27,878 --> 00:35:30,398
Speaker 4: of the price. So I think therein lies the difference,

823
00:35:30,598 --> 00:35:33,398
Speaker 4: the fact that he's not worried about these these ceilings,

824
00:35:33,478 --> 00:35:36,958
Speaker 4: the artificial glass ceiling of the baseball regarding the number

825
00:35:36,958 --> 00:35:39,758
Speaker 4: of amount of money you could spend. He's willing to

826
00:35:39,838 --> 00:35:43,038
Speaker 4: go past that. So that's that's the difference. There's no,

827
00:35:43,358 --> 00:35:46,078
Speaker 4: that's the only difference for me. The Yankees have this

828
00:35:46,318 --> 00:35:48,758
Speaker 4: this method that they've done for a long time, so

829
00:35:48,958 --> 00:35:51,118
Speaker 4: they're going to point to that, the tradition, the stripes,

830
00:35:51,198 --> 00:35:55,358
Speaker 4: the number of penance, their their alumni, all these people

831
00:35:55,358 --> 00:35:58,158
Speaker 4: show up. But it's it's pretty, it's formidable. On the

832
00:35:58,238 --> 00:36:00,198
Speaker 4: other hand, the Mets only have that one, and they do.

833
00:36:00,358 --> 00:36:05,118
Speaker 4: They have a nice group of traditionally based former players.

834
00:36:05,198 --> 00:36:06,358
Speaker 3: But it's different.

835
00:36:06,758 --> 00:36:10,678
Speaker 4: So the Mets in order to overcome them, there's they

836
00:36:10,718 --> 00:36:13,958
Speaker 4: have one key ingredient, and regardless of how wealthy the

837
00:36:13,998 --> 00:36:17,238
Speaker 4: Steinbrunners are this dude, this dude is you know that

838
00:36:17,438 --> 00:36:19,998
Speaker 4: he's that wealthy. So there's the difference maker and that's

839
00:36:19,998 --> 00:36:22,358
Speaker 4: what he's talking about. And that's why the needle for

840
00:36:22,398 --> 00:36:24,878
Speaker 4: the next fifteen years has to point and if money

841
00:36:24,958 --> 00:36:27,238
Speaker 4: really matters, the needles to point in his direction.

842
00:36:27,638 --> 00:36:29,958
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does matter, we know that, right. I mean,

843
00:36:30,198 --> 00:36:32,718
Speaker 1: it does not guarantee anything, but it does improve your chances.

844
00:36:32,758 --> 00:36:35,718
Speaker 1: And you look at you know, top payroll teams recently,

845
00:36:35,918 --> 00:36:37,678
Speaker 1: and I know we had a World Series just a

846
00:36:37,678 --> 00:36:40,318
Speaker 1: couple of years ago with Arizona and Texas, but really

847
00:36:41,198 --> 00:36:42,958
Speaker 1: the big boys are getting to the World Series for

848
00:36:42,998 --> 00:36:43,558
Speaker 1: the most part.

849
00:36:43,718 --> 00:36:44,758
Speaker 2: It doesn't prove your chances.

850
00:36:44,798 --> 00:36:47,438
Speaker 1: Guarantees nothing, because we're talking about fifteen years and Joe,

851
00:36:47,478 --> 00:36:49,398
Speaker 1: you know how much things can change. And if that's

852
00:36:49,478 --> 00:36:52,438
Speaker 1: a long that's an eon in baseball fifteen years. And

853
00:36:52,558 --> 00:36:55,278
Speaker 1: think about how many World Series titles the Yankees and

854
00:36:55,318 --> 00:36:57,198
Speaker 1: Mets have combined in the last fifteen years.

855
00:36:57,678 --> 00:36:58,558
Speaker 2: You know what that number is?

856
00:36:58,998 --> 00:37:03,958
Speaker 1: Uh? Yeah, the zero Yeah, right, So no guarantees, but

857
00:37:04,038 --> 00:37:05,718
Speaker 1: I get it. But you made an excellent point too.

858
00:37:05,798 --> 00:37:08,078
Speaker 1: I think that's what this is about, the fact that

859
00:37:08,198 --> 00:37:10,918
Speaker 1: it's even a debate right now is very interesting to

860
00:37:11,038 --> 00:37:13,238
Speaker 1: me because it would always be the Yankees, right, Who's

861
00:37:13,278 --> 00:37:16,518
Speaker 1: been more sustainable over a longer period of time as

862
00:37:16,638 --> 00:37:20,238
Speaker 1: a World Series capable team than the New York Yankees? Right? Nobody,

863
00:37:20,718 --> 00:37:23,398
Speaker 1: So historically, of course, you would say Yankees. But if

864
00:37:23,438 --> 00:37:26,638
Speaker 1: you look at the last four years, the Mets continue

865
00:37:26,678 --> 00:37:29,398
Speaker 1: to outspend the New York Yankees, and they're just now

866
00:37:29,558 --> 00:37:32,398
Speaker 1: getting the infrastructure that might allow them to be something

867
00:37:32,438 --> 00:37:35,758
Speaker 1: they've never been in the franchise's history, and that is

868
00:37:35,918 --> 00:37:39,478
Speaker 1: a sustainable winner. They've never been that kind of a

869
00:37:39,518 --> 00:37:41,798
Speaker 1: team that's going to contend for a playoff spot or

870
00:37:41,798 --> 00:37:45,478
Speaker 1: at least a pennant year after year after year. It

871
00:37:45,718 --> 00:37:49,558
Speaker 1: seems like seems like that they're getting to that point.

872
00:37:49,678 --> 00:37:52,278
Speaker 1: So I can see how if you're Juan Soto, if

873
00:37:52,318 --> 00:37:56,118
Speaker 1: you're a Mets fan, you can say that the return

874
00:37:56,198 --> 00:37:58,518
Speaker 1: on investment in the next fifteen years will be larger

875
00:37:58,638 --> 00:38:00,358
Speaker 1: for the Mets. Now, I'm not saying that it is.

876
00:38:00,478 --> 00:38:03,118
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that that was never a discussion before.

877
00:38:04,038 --> 00:38:08,158
Speaker 1: They have enough resources now and will to be great

878
00:38:08,358 --> 00:38:10,758
Speaker 1: to make that at least a very interesting question.

879
00:38:11,158 --> 00:38:12,518
Speaker 3: One more point I.

880
00:38:12,558 --> 00:38:15,318
Speaker 4: Read in the post that Cohen spoke about how much

881
00:38:15,558 --> 00:38:18,798
Speaker 4: fun and awesome was to be in the playoffs last year,

882
00:38:18,838 --> 00:38:23,278
Speaker 4: and the daily outcome was such an event for him

883
00:38:23,438 --> 00:38:25,638
Speaker 4: every day. Now here's the guy that's got a zillion dollars, right,

884
00:38:26,078 --> 00:38:28,638
Speaker 4: and he's he's getting jacked up about a baseball game

885
00:38:29,038 --> 00:38:31,598
Speaker 4: in playoff weather, right, So and he loved it.

886
00:38:31,718 --> 00:38:33,598
Speaker 3: I mean he spoke about that. Probably I don't.

887
00:38:33,718 --> 00:38:36,518
Speaker 4: I would imagine any any checking account he has does

888
00:38:36,638 --> 00:38:39,038
Speaker 4: not matter or is not nearly as interesting as one

889
00:38:39,078 --> 00:38:41,438
Speaker 4: playoff game or a World Series game would be to

890
00:38:41,558 --> 00:38:43,838
Speaker 4: him in his life now and moving forward.

891
00:38:43,918 --> 00:38:44,878
Speaker 3: So that's part of it.

892
00:38:44,998 --> 00:38:49,118
Speaker 4: Also, understand that he's not he's not gonna he's not

893
00:38:49,158 --> 00:38:52,078
Speaker 4: going to make decisions based on what most other all

894
00:38:52,158 --> 00:38:53,518
Speaker 4: other organizations are making them on.

895
00:38:53,598 --> 00:38:56,398
Speaker 3: It's as pragmatic as if hit our knees is, we're

896
00:38:56,398 --> 00:38:58,278
Speaker 3: going to break the bank? Could we afford to do this?

897
00:38:58,758 --> 00:38:59,118
Speaker 3: He doesn't.

898
00:38:59,278 --> 00:39:01,918
Speaker 4: He doesn't ask himself that question. I love this piece

899
00:39:01,958 --> 00:39:03,918
Speaker 4: of art. I wanted I love playing in the playoffs?

900
00:39:03,958 --> 00:39:04,718
Speaker 4: How do we get there?

901
00:39:04,998 --> 00:39:06,318
Speaker 3: I want to get to the World Series? What does

902
00:39:06,358 --> 00:39:08,518
Speaker 3: that mean when we do? And he's going to fulfill that?

903
00:39:08,718 --> 00:39:10,438
Speaker 3: That's the danger to everybody else.

904
00:39:10,998 --> 00:39:13,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say, you're right. I mean that is

905
00:39:14,518 --> 00:39:16,558
Speaker 1: I don't think any other owner. Maybe the Dodgers are

906
00:39:16,638 --> 00:39:20,198
Speaker 1: close to it with the Gudheind group. But that's an advantage.

907
00:39:20,198 --> 00:39:23,358
Speaker 1: There's no question that there really is no budget that

908
00:39:23,438 --> 00:39:26,118
Speaker 1: as he said, I can finance it. He didn't say we,

909
00:39:26,358 --> 00:39:29,078
Speaker 1: he said I can finance it. That's a huge advantage.

910
00:39:29,118 --> 00:39:31,878
Speaker 1: And there's the will again to be great, not just

911
00:39:31,998 --> 00:39:34,238
Speaker 1: to get into the postseason, but to win a World Series.

912
00:39:34,318 --> 00:39:37,078
Speaker 1: You have to admire that as well. I was there

913
00:39:37,158 --> 00:39:38,758
Speaker 1: for that, by the way, Joe, and you're absolutely right.

914
00:39:38,878 --> 00:39:41,998
Speaker 1: He was very I don't want to say emotional, but

915
00:39:42,638 --> 00:39:45,398
Speaker 1: you could tell he was jacked up by the postseason environment,

916
00:39:45,438 --> 00:39:47,918
Speaker 1: his first time really getting that deep into the postseason,

917
00:39:48,398 --> 00:39:50,358
Speaker 1: feeling what it was like on a day to day basis,

918
00:39:50,438 --> 00:39:52,278
Speaker 1: and he actually said it was one of the highlights

919
00:39:52,278 --> 00:39:54,038
Speaker 1: of his life. I mean, this guy, as you mentioned,

920
00:39:54,038 --> 00:39:56,318
Speaker 1: he's worth more than twenty billion dollars. I'm sure he's

921
00:39:56,358 --> 00:39:58,518
Speaker 1: made a lot of huge deals that would cause him

922
00:39:58,518 --> 00:40:01,758
Speaker 1: to bust out the champagne. But there's nothing like in

923
00:40:01,878 --> 00:40:03,598
Speaker 1: for a guy, especially who grew up a Mets fan.

924
00:40:03,958 --> 00:40:06,078
Speaker 1: You know what it's like Joe to live that dream

925
00:40:06,198 --> 00:40:08,718
Speaker 1: of going deep into the postseason. As that thing builds.

926
00:40:09,278 --> 00:40:09,958
Speaker 3: Nothing like it.

927
00:40:10,638 --> 00:40:13,758
Speaker 4: I'm telling you the socia and I Mike and isis

928
00:40:14,758 --> 00:40:17,598
Speaker 4: you know, stand there and talk, but behind the batting cage.

929
00:40:17,678 --> 00:40:20,318
Speaker 3: And we get later in the season. We're doing pretty good.

930
00:40:20,358 --> 00:40:22,358
Speaker 4: And the first time I said, well, it smells like

931
00:40:22,398 --> 00:40:24,198
Speaker 4: football weather around here, and he says, no, no, no,

932
00:40:24,278 --> 00:40:25,638
Speaker 4: it smells like playoff weather.

933
00:40:26,158 --> 00:40:27,718
Speaker 3: He corrected me, and it was absolutely right.

934
00:40:27,758 --> 00:40:29,598
Speaker 4: When you get to that time of the hear come September,

935
00:40:30,038 --> 00:40:32,958
Speaker 4: and September always provides its own energies. When you get

936
00:40:32,998 --> 00:40:35,878
Speaker 4: to September and you got an absolute shot, it's different. Man,

937
00:40:36,638 --> 00:40:38,358
Speaker 4: if you've been tired up and like to talk about

938
00:40:38,398 --> 00:40:40,838
Speaker 4: the dog days of August, they go away. Here comes

939
00:40:40,838 --> 00:40:43,558
Speaker 4: September and here September just got this bucket full of energy.

940
00:40:43,878 --> 00:40:45,198
Speaker 4: It's going to give to you if you're in, if

941
00:40:45,238 --> 00:40:48,198
Speaker 4: you're in the hunt. So it's it's totally different. It

942
00:40:48,278 --> 00:40:51,318
Speaker 4: smells different, it tastes different, the light looks different. When

943
00:40:51,318 --> 00:40:54,758
Speaker 4: you wake up, it's different. You're just you're so in

944
00:40:54,878 --> 00:40:57,478
Speaker 4: tune to the day and your objective is to get

945
00:40:57,838 --> 00:40:59,518
Speaker 4: You've got to get to the playoffs. You got to qualify,

946
00:40:59,518 --> 00:41:01,598
Speaker 4: and then after that just let's let's take it all

947
00:41:01,638 --> 00:41:03,638
Speaker 4: the way and that's all you have to That's how

948
00:41:03,678 --> 00:41:06,358
Speaker 4: you think, and that's what it feels like. It's different.

949
00:41:06,478 --> 00:41:08,718
Speaker 4: So I understand where he was coming from. When we

950
00:41:08,838 --> 00:41:10,798
Speaker 4: went and got to our first playoff with the Angels

951
00:41:10,798 --> 00:41:13,238
Speaker 4: in two thousand and two. We're in Texas and we

952
00:41:13,318 --> 00:41:14,678
Speaker 4: had struggle clinching this thing.

953
00:41:14,718 --> 00:41:15,238
Speaker 3: We finally did.

954
00:41:15,358 --> 00:41:17,638
Speaker 4: Man, I broke down. It was that important to me

955
00:41:18,318 --> 00:41:20,558
Speaker 4: in two thousand and two. Have you been a lifer

956
00:41:20,758 --> 00:41:24,238
Speaker 4: with the Angels from seventy six basically to two thousand.

957
00:41:23,878 --> 00:41:25,638
Speaker 3: And two, doing a whole bunch of different jobs. It

958
00:41:25,718 --> 00:41:28,558
Speaker 3: was that powerful to me at that particular moment. So

959
00:41:29,198 --> 00:41:30,638
Speaker 3: I get it. It's true.

960
00:41:31,198 --> 00:41:32,958
Speaker 4: And here's a guy that, like you could argue, has

961
00:41:32,998 --> 00:41:36,918
Speaker 4: gotten everything in life, and this resonates even more loudly

962
00:41:37,238 --> 00:41:39,398
Speaker 4: than a lot of other wonderful things that have happened

963
00:41:39,398 --> 00:41:40,078
Speaker 4: to him and his family.

964
00:41:40,758 --> 00:41:43,278
Speaker 1: That is so cool the way you explain that, especially

965
00:41:43,358 --> 00:41:45,358
Speaker 1: going through that first time in two thousand and two.

966
00:41:45,518 --> 00:41:48,398
Speaker 2: But we'll worry about that another day.

967
00:41:48,518 --> 00:41:51,598
Speaker 1: Right now, Joe, let's take advantage of the leisurely pace

968
00:41:51,638 --> 00:41:54,238
Speaker 1: of spring training, right how great is it now? To me,

969
00:41:54,318 --> 00:41:56,478
Speaker 1: it's like when you watch golf from Hawaii with a

970
00:41:56,518 --> 00:41:59,678
Speaker 1: PGA tour starts off in Hawaii in January and you're

971
00:41:59,678 --> 00:42:02,878
Speaker 1: shoveling your driveway. You come in and watch the beautiful scenery.

972
00:42:03,438 --> 00:42:07,438
Speaker 1: Watching spring training games in March is is just a pleasure.

973
00:42:07,518 --> 00:42:07,678
Speaker 2: Man.

974
00:42:07,758 --> 00:42:11,358
Speaker 1: The games might not be that artistically great, but just

975
00:42:11,438 --> 00:42:15,078
Speaker 1: the idea of baseball and the sunshine, palm trees, cacti, whatever,

976
00:42:15,918 --> 00:42:17,358
Speaker 1: it's so glad to have the game back.

977
00:42:17,958 --> 00:42:20,958
Speaker 4: Never gets old, never got old. The thing from our perspective,

978
00:42:21,478 --> 00:42:23,478
Speaker 4: being a member of the staff, you know, you know

979
00:42:23,558 --> 00:42:25,478
Speaker 4: what's going on out there, you know who's taking a

980
00:42:25,518 --> 00:42:27,198
Speaker 4: slow your nose on the team, and you know other

981
00:42:27,278 --> 00:42:29,238
Speaker 4: people you have to really keep a close eye on

982
00:42:29,958 --> 00:42:32,318
Speaker 4: regarding like the different maybe the different things you've laid

983
00:42:32,358 --> 00:42:34,838
Speaker 4: down there. Physically, we got them get better at this,

984
00:42:34,998 --> 00:42:37,358
Speaker 4: this and this. Who's been working with him. They just

985
00:42:37,398 --> 00:42:39,198
Speaker 4: did it this morning. He said, he looked really good.

986
00:42:39,278 --> 00:42:39,798
Speaker 3: You go out there.

987
00:42:39,838 --> 00:42:42,398
Speaker 4: Maybe it was a jumps and leaves at first base.

988
00:42:42,558 --> 00:42:44,478
Speaker 4: Maybe it's a catcher blocking the ball in a dirt.

989
00:42:44,798 --> 00:42:47,198
Speaker 4: Maybe it's a hitter controlling the strikes some better. Whatever

990
00:42:47,238 --> 00:42:49,478
Speaker 4: it might be, so that's what you're in tune too.

991
00:42:49,558 --> 00:42:49,998
Speaker 3: During the game.

992
00:42:50,038 --> 00:42:52,518
Speaker 4: It's not the game itself, it's not the outcome. It's

993
00:42:52,598 --> 00:42:55,038
Speaker 4: what you've been working on that morning specifically, and then

994
00:42:55,358 --> 00:42:58,278
Speaker 4: as a group, and then individually if this is getting

995
00:42:58,318 --> 00:43:00,838
Speaker 4: done or not, that's the part that's fascinating to us,

996
00:43:00,918 --> 00:43:02,798
Speaker 4: to me. And then, like you said, it's more of

997
00:43:02,838 --> 00:43:05,318
Speaker 4: a leisure pace. You're not worried about winning or losing

998
00:43:05,518 --> 00:43:08,398
Speaker 4: at all. You're worried about, like I said, getting things done,

999
00:43:08,438 --> 00:43:11,038
Speaker 4: getting things in order, that you're seeing progress through the

1000
00:43:11,158 --> 00:43:14,278
Speaker 4: camp as you get to the first game of the season.

1001
00:43:14,318 --> 00:43:15,958
Speaker 3: For me, it was like down to the last the

1002
00:43:16,078 --> 00:43:16,518
Speaker 3: last week.

1003
00:43:16,558 --> 00:43:18,238
Speaker 4: I wanted to play it more straight up, and I

1004
00:43:18,278 --> 00:43:21,438
Speaker 4: would tell the guys that in advance, players go more deeply.

1005
00:43:21,558 --> 00:43:23,358
Speaker 4: They didn't have to play nine innings. I just wanted

1006
00:43:23,398 --> 00:43:26,318
Speaker 4: them to consistently go more deeply into the game, get

1007
00:43:26,318 --> 00:43:28,038
Speaker 4: a couple more at bats, that kind of a thing.

1008
00:43:28,518 --> 00:43:30,838
Speaker 4: But it was like this slow dance. It's a slow dance,

1009
00:43:30,878 --> 00:43:33,478
Speaker 4: but it's a necessary slow dance. People say it's too long.

1010
00:43:33,558 --> 00:43:36,078
Speaker 4: It is not too long. Pitchers need all that time,

1011
00:43:36,478 --> 00:43:38,878
Speaker 4: position players need. I don't care where they've been working out.

1012
00:43:38,878 --> 00:43:41,158
Speaker 4: I don't care how many reps they did before they

1013
00:43:41,238 --> 00:43:41,638
Speaker 4: got there.

1014
00:43:41,718 --> 00:43:42,478
Speaker 3: They need all that.

1015
00:43:42,558 --> 00:43:46,078
Speaker 4: Time and it needs to happen slowly. It's like a

1016
00:43:46,278 --> 00:43:50,518
Speaker 4: great backswing. The more more slowly you do that, probably

1017
00:43:50,558 --> 00:43:52,838
Speaker 4: the better contact you're going to make. And it makes

1018
00:43:52,878 --> 00:43:56,438
Speaker 4: a difference before that first game. Everybody. You want to

1019
00:43:56,438 --> 00:43:59,038
Speaker 4: get out of spring training healthy. That's always the main go.

1020
00:43:59,838 --> 00:44:01,518
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of my favorite times a year. I

1021
00:44:01,638 --> 00:44:02,678
Speaker 2: love the quietude of it.

1022
00:44:02,718 --> 00:44:05,998
Speaker 1: I love watching the game being taught, which you really

1023
00:44:06,238 --> 00:44:09,118
Speaker 1: don't get, you know, behind the curtain too often, but

1024
00:44:09,198 --> 00:44:12,798
Speaker 1: in spring training you can. And next time on our podcast, Joe,

1025
00:44:12,838 --> 00:44:14,198
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about some of the cool

1026
00:44:14,238 --> 00:44:16,158
Speaker 1: things I saw what the Mets are doing with their catching.

1027
00:44:16,238 --> 00:44:19,558
Speaker 1: I mean, you think like there's nothing new that can

1028
00:44:19,678 --> 00:44:21,838
Speaker 1: be taught about this game. It's been around for so

1029
00:44:22,118 --> 00:44:24,958
Speaker 1: long and how you should play it. Yet every year

1030
00:44:25,318 --> 00:44:27,758
Speaker 1: at least when I go around, I learned something, see

1031
00:44:27,838 --> 00:44:32,038
Speaker 1: something that's different. The quest to quote unquote master this

1032
00:44:32,198 --> 00:44:35,838
Speaker 1: game never does. And I'm always partial to the instructors

1033
00:44:35,878 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 1: and coaches and see how they are instructing these supremely

1034
00:44:40,638 --> 00:44:42,918
Speaker 1: talented people to be the best version of themselves. It's

1035
00:44:43,078 --> 00:44:45,318
Speaker 1: really cool stuff. Be able to witness that up front.

1036
00:44:45,518 --> 00:44:48,038
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Joe, we're going to talk about the

1037
00:44:48,118 --> 00:44:50,318
Speaker 1: end of this podcast, this edition to the Book of Joe.

1038
00:44:50,838 --> 00:44:52,438
Speaker 1: So what do you got to take us home today?

1039
00:44:52,958 --> 00:44:55,478
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I knew, I felt we're going to

1040
00:44:55,518 --> 00:44:58,078
Speaker 4: go in this direction the beginning part of spring training,

1041
00:44:58,118 --> 00:45:00,678
Speaker 4: and I already alluded to it. The big part for

1042
00:45:00,798 --> 00:45:03,798
Speaker 4: me as a manager was always the address going into it.

1043
00:45:03,918 --> 00:45:06,318
Speaker 4: So I'm going to quickly read off the six points

1044
00:45:06,398 --> 00:45:09,998
Speaker 4: I made going into the twenty sixteen spring training with

1045
00:45:10,078 --> 00:45:10,478
Speaker 4: the Cubs.

1046
00:45:10,518 --> 00:45:11,158
Speaker 3: It's in our book.

1047
00:45:11,198 --> 00:45:14,758
Speaker 4: It's the I did it on my good Notes app

1048
00:45:14,998 --> 00:45:18,958
Speaker 4: on my iPad, and it's so great because you could

1049
00:45:19,318 --> 00:45:20,998
Speaker 4: do what erase it. It kind of looks like a

1050
00:45:21,078 --> 00:45:23,078
Speaker 4: work of art when you get done. But I keep

1051
00:45:23,118 --> 00:45:25,558
Speaker 4: all my stuff. Obviously, I've kept stuff from the nineteen eighties.

1052
00:45:25,998 --> 00:45:28,278
Speaker 4: So going into spring training twenty sixteen, I had six

1053
00:45:28,358 --> 00:45:30,158
Speaker 4: points that I started with, and of course there's other,

1054
00:45:30,238 --> 00:45:32,638
Speaker 4: but I'm just going to go with six. Number one

1055
00:45:32,758 --> 00:45:35,798
Speaker 4: was to embrace the target. We had never won anything

1056
00:45:36,038 --> 00:45:38,998
Speaker 4: after fifteen, and everybody's expecting us to go to the

1057
00:45:39,038 --> 00:45:41,438
Speaker 4: World Series and win it that year. Wow, how does

1058
00:45:41,478 --> 00:45:43,478
Speaker 4: that happen. So I wanted to make sure we didn't

1059
00:45:43,518 --> 00:45:46,518
Speaker 4: run away from the pressure. Embrace the target. And number two,

1060
00:45:47,078 --> 00:45:49,918
Speaker 4: we all have to set aside our personal agendas. This

1061
00:45:50,078 --> 00:45:52,238
Speaker 4: has got to be about us. If it's about you, man,

1062
00:45:52,318 --> 00:45:54,318
Speaker 4: it ain't gonna work. So I wanted to make sure

1063
00:45:54,358 --> 00:45:56,438
Speaker 4: that we're all on the same page regarding that. And

1064
00:45:56,518 --> 00:45:58,518
Speaker 4: then number three dovetailed all off of that.

1065
00:45:58,878 --> 00:46:01,438
Speaker 3: All do our jobs. Do your job.

1066
00:46:01,518 --> 00:46:04,638
Speaker 4: Everybody always wants to everybody else what to do. I want,

1067
00:46:04,758 --> 00:46:07,198
Speaker 4: I want cross pollination with the coaching staff, the players.

1068
00:46:07,518 --> 00:46:09,798
Speaker 4: Make sure you get your stuff done. If we you know,

1069
00:46:10,158 --> 00:46:13,118
Speaker 4: if you see something wrong, more than like when it

1070
00:46:13,198 --> 00:46:15,678
Speaker 4: comes down to attitude and you have some you have

1071
00:46:15,798 --> 00:46:16,318
Speaker 4: some cachet.

1072
00:46:16,398 --> 00:46:17,758
Speaker 3: Of course, gope and talk to the player.

1073
00:46:17,838 --> 00:46:20,358
Speaker 4: But we all got our jobs to do and know

1074
00:46:20,558 --> 00:46:21,918
Speaker 4: that we are at number four, know that we are

1075
00:46:21,958 --> 00:46:23,638
Speaker 4: not perfect, but we can't be present.

1076
00:46:24,078 --> 00:46:24,958
Speaker 3: You got to shake it off.

1077
00:46:24,958 --> 00:46:26,398
Speaker 4: You've got to turn the page. You got to move

1078
00:46:26,478 --> 00:46:31,278
Speaker 4: on the present. Tense rocks, anxiety lives in the future.

1079
00:46:31,278 --> 00:46:33,118
Speaker 4: You got to stay right there. That was a big

1080
00:46:33,558 --> 00:46:36,158
Speaker 4: part of that message. And number five, and this is

1081
00:46:36,518 --> 00:46:38,678
Speaker 4: something I try to get the angels to understand. We

1082
00:46:38,918 --> 00:46:41,838
Speaker 4: are our own little planet. I mean, in today's world,

1083
00:46:41,918 --> 00:46:44,638
Speaker 4: everybody wants to be like everybody else. If you look

1084
00:46:44,638 --> 00:46:46,518
Speaker 4: at baseball in general, we're gonna we're gonna get to that.

1085
00:46:46,598 --> 00:46:49,158
Speaker 4: In my last I add at number seven. But we're

1086
00:46:49,158 --> 00:46:52,998
Speaker 4: our own little planet, and so we have to rotate,

1087
00:46:53,198 --> 00:46:56,278
Speaker 4: revolve around the World Series trophy, and we got to

1088
00:46:56,918 --> 00:46:58,878
Speaker 4: do what we think is right and not worry about

1089
00:46:58,878 --> 00:46:59,878
Speaker 4: what everybody else is doing.

1090
00:47:00,158 --> 00:47:02,398
Speaker 3: And that got to number six. Rotate around the same

1091
00:47:02,438 --> 00:47:03,878
Speaker 3: set of goals. All of this stuff.

1092
00:47:04,318 --> 00:47:06,478
Speaker 4: Those are the six talking points I use for that

1093
00:47:06,918 --> 00:47:10,038
Speaker 4: first meeting. And then you talked about big government. You

1094
00:47:10,198 --> 00:47:13,398
Speaker 4: just mentioned it with the uh that there's at least

1095
00:47:13,438 --> 00:47:20,198
Speaker 4: this number of at least a number of extra people involved, analysts,

1096
00:47:20,238 --> 00:47:22,278
Speaker 4: et cetera, all these different dudes that are part of

1097
00:47:22,358 --> 00:47:25,918
Speaker 4: this this first meeting, compared to the number of players

1098
00:47:25,958 --> 00:47:26,838
Speaker 4: and coaches or whatever.

1099
00:47:27,198 --> 00:47:28,398
Speaker 3: But it's all part of big government.

1100
00:47:28,438 --> 00:47:31,838
Speaker 4: These front these these front office staffs have gotten so large,

1101
00:47:31,838 --> 00:47:33,558
Speaker 4: and I'm here to tell you there's there's some waste

1102
00:47:33,598 --> 00:47:36,078
Speaker 4: involved in that. They don't need that many guys there.

1103
00:47:36,238 --> 00:47:39,158
Speaker 4: Sometimes they start they walk over each other's territory, so

1104
00:47:39,198 --> 00:47:42,398
Speaker 4: it's become a it's become almost like an exercise, and

1105
00:47:42,518 --> 00:47:45,798
Speaker 4: who could have the bigger front office or baseball operations department.

1106
00:47:45,958 --> 00:47:47,078
Speaker 4: And I'm here to tell you a lot of it's

1107
00:47:47,118 --> 00:47:49,478
Speaker 4: redundant and a lot of it's not. It's really not necessary.

1108
00:47:50,038 --> 00:47:52,398
Speaker 4: I'd rather spend my player my money on players like

1109
00:47:52,598 --> 00:47:54,998
Speaker 4: uh Bragman as opposed to I don't know how many

1110
00:47:55,078 --> 00:47:58,398
Speaker 4: new analytical dudes. So anyway, that's part of it. It's

1111
00:47:58,638 --> 00:48:01,678
Speaker 4: it's got that part's gotten too large. Trust your guys,

1112
00:48:01,758 --> 00:48:04,598
Speaker 4: trust your players, understand when they in a big moment.

1113
00:48:04,678 --> 00:48:07,718
Speaker 4: Shohil Tawny doesn't need a whole lot of information from anybody.

1114
00:48:07,998 --> 00:48:10,278
Speaker 4: He just needs to be healthy and be left alone.

1115
00:48:10,358 --> 00:48:12,398
Speaker 4: So those are my six and I just do a

1116
00:48:12,478 --> 00:48:12,998
Speaker 4: number seven.

1117
00:48:13,598 --> 00:48:15,718
Speaker 2: That's so cool. Of course, twenty sixteen.

1118
00:48:15,798 --> 00:48:17,918
Speaker 1: We all know how that wound up a special, special

1119
00:48:17,998 --> 00:48:20,958
Speaker 1: year for you in the Chicago Cubs, but it's important

1120
00:48:20,958 --> 00:48:23,478
Speaker 1: to remember how it began with that kind of messaging.

1121
00:48:23,678 --> 00:48:26,158
Speaker 2: Cool stuff, Joe, Thanks Tommy way to set it up.

1122
00:48:26,238 --> 00:48:27,478
Speaker 3: That's I envy you.

1123
00:48:27,798 --> 00:48:28,158
Speaker 1: I do.

1124
00:48:28,318 --> 00:48:30,678
Speaker 4: I mean, because you've described it really well. Going to

1125
00:48:30,998 --> 00:48:33,798
Speaker 4: spring training on a daily basis, I would just smile.

1126
00:48:34,318 --> 00:48:37,318
Speaker 4: The only thing wrong about spring training is Pallen, whether

1127
00:48:37,358 --> 00:48:41,238
Speaker 4: you're here or in Arizona or calif or in Florida.

1128
00:48:41,358 --> 00:48:43,118
Speaker 3: Oh my god, oak trees are.

1129
00:48:43,038 --> 00:48:49,078
Speaker 4: Blue blossoming everywhere, Juniper, all these different little bushes.

1130
00:48:49,358 --> 00:48:50,038
Speaker 3: It's awful.

1131
00:48:50,198 --> 00:48:53,158
Speaker 4: So it's the hay fever time of the year.

1132
00:48:53,238 --> 00:48:54,438
Speaker 3: That's the only bad part about it.

1133
00:48:54,758 --> 00:48:57,558
Speaker 1: Nothing great was ever at ty without some sacrifice. Joe,

1134
00:48:57,878 --> 00:48:59,078
Speaker 1: that's a small price for.

1135
00:48:59,158 --> 00:49:00,078
Speaker 2: That kind of bliss.

1136
00:49:01,078 --> 00:49:02,078
Speaker 3: Thanks reminding me. Man.

1137
00:49:02,238 --> 00:49:03,638
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, Joe, We do.

1138
00:49:04,158 --> 00:49:04,398
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1139
00:49:11,758 --> 00:49:14,958
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1140
00:49:15,198 --> 00:49:20,038
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1141
00:49:20,318 --> 00:49:22,038
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