1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Dire Straits Cast, a podcast where 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: I know exactly one song by the band The dire 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Straits money for Nothing, and Margaret, I understand you still 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: know two songs by the dire Straits. 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 2: I do. 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, Sultan's is excellent. 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: So this is a news and culture podcast about all 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: of the things going on in the Dire Straits world. 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: Any any updates that you're aware of, Margaret, Well, they 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: don't need to make the guitar cry or sing. Okay, 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: I've learned that, Mukay. How do we feel are they 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: allowed to use that slur sing no no, no no 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: in Money for Nothing? 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 4: Oh? You know, there's no accountability that I could ask 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 4: from the Dire Straits. 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: I don't think there ever was. 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 4: I don't think it's what I would recommend they did. 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 4: That's That's where I'm going to go. 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: My assumption is that everyone involved with that band died 20 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, and yeah, they can't have lived 21 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: past that. They certainly can't have outlived in TV. 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: Why is this the thing you wanted to do? This 23 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: is this is. 24 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: This is Margaret and I's most beloved bit. The Dire 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: Straits Podcast by two people who know very little about 26 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: the Dire Straits, Margaret, can you because I only know 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: one song and Margaret knows two. 28 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we've done it before, so therefore it's our 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 4: most beloved I was. 30 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: I was. I've been waiting for weeks to talk about 31 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: the Dire Straits again, because, you know, after we did 32 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: it the first time, I listened to Money for Nothing 33 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: again because I mostly had listened to a cover of 34 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: it done by a bluegrass band, and it wound up 35 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: you know that thing YouTube does where they like stick 36 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: it in your like recently listened to thing. And so 37 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: for the last like several months, every time I hop 38 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: on YouTube to put on music, there's like a fifty 39 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: percent chance I start playing that one song and then 40 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: it it quickly takes me away from that to other songs, 41 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: and then in thirty minutes, I'm singing Hotel California. But 42 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, and it's four thirty in the morning. What else, 43 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Anyway, this concludes the Dire 44 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: Straits cast. If they're not dead, don't tell us. You know, 45 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: we're We're both fine with that. I don't, I don't. 46 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 4: Unless you are listening and you are in dire Strain, 47 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 4: in which case you have permissions. 48 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Especially if you will record us a custom version of 49 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: either one of those two songs, but themed about I 50 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: don't know whatever we do here podcasting. I guess that 51 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be a very interesting song. Actually, you know what, 52 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm certain there is a deeply, deeply frustrating version of 53 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: money for Nothing that's about like podcasters making money as 54 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: opposed to rock stars, and I don't want to hear it. 55 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: So no, no, thank you, yeap. That is the exception. 56 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, even if you're the Dire Straits people and you 57 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 4: wrote that song, you don't want it. 58 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: Would be very funny if the Dire Straits people were 59 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: just like the Monster mash Guy, where they just kept 60 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: making as anytime there was like a new group of 61 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: people who like got a bunch of money, they do 62 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: another version of that. 63 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: Why are you still talking about this? 64 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 3: I don't know. 65 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, Sophie, because the rest of the story 66 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about today, which is the history of vagrancy 67 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: and how it intertwines with the history of Benjamin Darling's 68 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: descendants and Malaga Island, the rest of that story is 69 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: very sad. So that's why we're talking about the Dire Straan. 70 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: Legally, we are only allowed to feel joy when we're 71 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: on cool people did cool stuff, bastards bad time. 72 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: We did sign that contract. Well great, I don't know, Sophie, 73 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: See if we can get a deal with MTV and 74 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: do a real music podcast. Are they still around? 75 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: I think so, But it's just like now they're m 76 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 3: pod for It. 77 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: Just seems to be like more like spinoff shows of 78 00:03:58,560 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: Jersey Shore. 79 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 4: And over again. 80 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what a tragic state of affairs. 81 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: That was a cultural moment. 82 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because honestly, like the Jersey Shore people probably committed 83 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: fewer sex crimes than the musicians that were previously the 84 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: draw to that channel. So I don't know, it seems 85 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: probably pretty equal. Well, now I've made our fun bit 86 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: about the Dire Straits, just. 87 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 3: The regular shift, So yeah, let's continue on. 88 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: So when we left our friends on Malaga Island, things 89 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: were still going pretty well there, but the twentieth century 90 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: was starting to turn and there were problems on the horizon. Right. 91 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: You know, this kind of anti vagrant hysteria had sort 92 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: of fed into you know, this kind of local culture 93 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: demonizing this this one. You know, dude, you know, squatting 94 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: alone on an island, and it was kind of like 95 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: a sign of things that are about to start becoming 96 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: a problem for more of the people who live on 97 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: these islands, because the kind of pleasant state of being 98 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: ignored that had benefited these people for so many generations 99 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: was going to come to an end because of the 100 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: development of Maine's first tourist industry. Suddenly Americans with disposable 101 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: income were flocking to the main coast every summer. These 102 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: isolated islands, you know, with the additional technology that existed, 103 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: were now less isolated. And you know, for a while, 104 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: about a century or so, affluent white maners had been 105 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: pretty happy to leave the people of the Casco Bay 106 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: Islands alone, especially since they were both an exit valve 107 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: for folks who didn't fit into like Portland society, and 108 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: they were a source of cheap labor. But now they 109 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: were starting to think, well, maybe there's more money if 110 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: we just kind of imminent domain those islands and put 111 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: up summer houses on them for you know, rich people, 112 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: and shit, yeah, what do we airbnb community? Yeah, yeah, 113 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: that's basically what's happening. So since there's money to be 114 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: made in the islands, now local businesses start leaning on 115 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: the local media to portray the Malagaites and their neighbors 116 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: as an iesore and a shame to the community. In 117 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety nine, a columnist for the Bath Enterprise limited 118 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: that quote, few people of Pipsburg had faith that the 119 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: effort to get rid of Malaga with its burden of 120 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: poor people, would be successful. A flurry of local news articles, 121 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: like this one from the Casco Bay Breeze in nineteen 122 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: oh five described Malaga as the home of southern Negro 123 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: blood and an incongruent scene on a spot of natural beauty. 124 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh eight, the Popular Liberals standby Harper's magazine 125 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: cent a correspondent, Home and Day and a photographer out 126 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: to Malaga and several neighboring islands to do an article 127 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: on the communities that had caused such a sudden panic 128 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: to their longtime neighbors. The piece, titled The Queer Folk 129 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: of the Main Coast, is a fascinating historical document, and 130 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: it uses the word queer more than any other document 131 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: not about like queer people that I've ever seen. It 132 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: is every third word in this. 133 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: So well that just brings us back to money for nothing. 134 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. Does Holman Day get a pass? 135 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: No? 136 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like this. I thought. I have such 137 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: a mixed feeling about this because Day comes across as 138 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: like a very like up his own ass like liberal 139 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: elite asshole, looking down on these people and kind of 140 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: like cheerfully condescending them. But also he is competent as 141 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: a reporter. He is going and talk and he's like 142 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: the only one who does and so a huge amount 143 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: of what we know about the culture of these islands 144 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: is just because he went and talked to people and 145 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: gave delivered their stories. So it is one of those 146 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: like kind of the way he does it is frustrating, 147 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: but he does provide us with an absolutely it's kind 148 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: of like you got that guy and like the White 149 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: House Press Corps, the one guy who can about aids 150 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: and like he's like dropping some you know, slurs and 151 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: laughing about it sometimes. But he also is pushing the 152 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: only guy pushing the Reagan administration about the fact that 153 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: people are dying and this is a serious problem. So 154 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: like you know, journalism, you get a lot of these 155 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: stories there where it's like this is fucked up, but 156 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: also this is the only reason we know about these people. 157 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't know what to we're 158 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: morally to put that. It doesn't really matter. I guess 159 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: it happened. 160 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,239 Speaker 3: Morally, it goes in the past. It's at a category 161 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: thing that happened. 162 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: So holand Day's article opens promisingly enough with the lines 163 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: of old muskets drove the Abnakis off the coast of Maine. 164 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: Today money is driving away another race, which could be 165 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: like a good opening if you're trying to be like, 166 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: you know, the cruelty of settlers against the indigenous people 167 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: is being replicated by capitalists against these folks who have 168 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: found refuge here. That is a little bit of what 169 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: he means, but not not. I don't think he really 170 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: analyzes things in that context, you know, Okay. He continues 171 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: between Kittery Point and Quota Head. Resorters have acquired hundreds 172 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,239 Speaker 1: of headlands and thousands of islands. A phalanx of cottages 173 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: fronts the sea. The queer squad are people who have 174 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: been dispossessed find little relish in being stared at as 175 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: human curiosities. So the queer folk live alone, and it 176 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: is said that isolation develops eccentricity. The ocean creeps to 177 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: the doors of their huts, and winter waves thunder in 178 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: their ears. And there are those who say that the 179 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: din of the sea boats beats curious ideas into their head. 180 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: So for one thing, this. 181 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 4: Rules they're just cool as they are so cool. Even 182 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 4: though this guy sounds like love he does. 183 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: That's what he's about to say, is he sounds like 184 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: like the madness is creeping in from the ocean waves, 185 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: battering their their simple brains. It is interesting that he 186 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: like he starts with almost almost like actual class analysis here, 187 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: talking about like a real like the kind of like 188 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: longitudinal problems between the genocide of the native peoples of 189 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: this isle and kind of the relentless hunger that that, 190 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, the quest for profit brings and how it 191 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: just inherently dispossesses and forces people out of their homes. 192 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: But he immediately moves to like, and these folks believe 193 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: weird shit, like that's the focus of the article, espe 194 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: silly they are. So he acknowledges that problem and then 195 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: drops it right away, like a paragraph into this fucking 196 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: article that said, Homan Day is a pretty textbook earnest 197 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: white liberal intellectual. That's at least the picture one gets it. 198 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: I haven't read his entire ouvra. That's the picture that 199 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: you get of this guy. In this article. He paints 200 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: a pretty desperate picture of the educational standards in general culture, which, 201 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: as we've already said, is not accurate. These people seem 202 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: to have been and this is something that like modern 203 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: day archaeologist will note, seem to have been pretty like 204 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: reasonably well educated by the standards of the day and 205 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: the area. Day uses a lot of noble savage imagery 206 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: here too, in lines like this quote. They are not envious, 207 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: they do not want to beg Where penury and pride 208 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: meet in the city, there are heart burnings. But the 209 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: man tossing in the battered dory in the swash of 210 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: a millionaire's yacht neither size nor glares, provided he be 211 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: one of the queer folk. For the queer folk are 212 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 1: queer in one respective. Especially, they dwell content in their 213 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: own world, which is often a world of illusion. For 214 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: solitariness and the sea breeds strange thoughts. Kids, keeps going back. 215 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 3: To that, Uh, this guy is just as it is. 216 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: He's like this reporters living some dog shit life back 217 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: in the city, watching all of his friends get collar 218 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: every season, and like, what do I have on these people? Well, 219 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: some of them believe silly stuff. Holman really wanted to 220 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: make sure people got the picture that these people were 221 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: sweet but deranged and thus not capable of taking care 222 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: of themselves and the ways that we modern Americans expect now. 223 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: To his credit, Holman travels pretty widely around the islands, 224 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: and he comes across people with legitimately fascinating stories that 225 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: I wish desperately had been investigated by a proper anthropologist, 226 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: although those didn't really exist back then. But yeah, it's 227 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: enticing the bits that he gives us. One of the 228 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: stories he tells us is about a guy named Ossian Dustin. 229 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: Ossian lives on an island called Newcastle, not far away 230 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: from Malaga, and when Holman meets him, Ossian Dustin is 231 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: eighty years old. He survives mostly off of just kind 232 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: of like pulling what he can out of the ocean. 233 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: He makes about fifty dollars a year doing odd jobs 234 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: for people back on shore, mostly firewood sawing, and this 235 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: pittance is enough for him to remain alone and independent 236 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: on the island, engaging in his life's goal hunting for 237 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: Captain Kid's treasure. That is his entire This man has 238 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: spent hell y rad Dude, he spent his whole life 239 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: living alone on this eye and hunting for Captain Kid's 240 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: treasure quote the buried existence of which he implicitly believes. Now, 241 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: what this guy represents in actuality is a dude who 242 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: was born in around the early eighteen twenties and seems 243 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: to have decided, like, taken a look at American society 244 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: in the eighteen twenties and been like, nah, fuck that shit. 245 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: And he has this kind of comfortable fantasy about Captain 246 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: hood Kid's treasure that gives him like purpose and a 247 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: sense of meaning and seems to make him pretty happy. 248 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: As far as we can gather from Holman's reporting, he 249 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: came to believe that Kid's treasure was hidden in the 250 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: area due to a local legend he encountered as a 251 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: young man, and he just decided to spend his entire 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: life trying to find it. Holman describes this as quote 253 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: the type of content that relieves these hidden human tragedies 254 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: of some of that pitifulness. Right, Well, this guy's so 255 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: happy it makes it less sad that he lives this 256 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: depressing life. He is like, the life's only depressing to you, Holman. 257 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: Like this guy's doing fine. He is hunting for buried treasure. 258 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: He is probably friends with seagulls. Like his life is great. 259 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: He is eighty years old. Nobody lives that long. Like 260 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: whatever he's doing is working well for him. Yeah, here's 261 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: Holman again. He has toiled nights for the most part, 262 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: believing that in the night a treasure seeker can best 263 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: circumvent the enchantments laid on buried pirate spoils. He searches 264 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: with the treasure rod made by his own hands. He 265 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: has the tip of a cow's horn, plugged with wood 266 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: and containing various metals. In the wooden plug are stuck 267 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: parallel strips of whalebone, and he clutches these strips, one 268 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: in each hand and walks along, balancing the tip of 269 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: the horn. When he passes over the famous iron pot, 270 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: the tip, thus is his belief, will turn down and 271 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: point at the buried treasure. He says his spade has 272 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: struck the iron pot several times, but that enchantment has 273 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: whisked away the treasure. He expects that eventually his own 274 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: charms will prevail over the power of evil. That's a 275 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: cool That's a fine life. I'm sorry, Like, that's a 276 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: perfectly fine existence. 277 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 3: He gets his steps in every day. 278 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: Like what has built a whole, like almost religious mythology 279 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: around this treasure that allows him to always be searching 280 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: for it but never quite finding it, while still getting 281 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: little victories along the way. What's wrong with this life? 282 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: In the grand scheme of things? How can you have 283 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: a problem with this? I bring this guy up both 284 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: because this is an amazing story and it made me 285 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: so happy to read, and also because as evidence of 286 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: what these islands were, they were a refuge, not just 287 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: for people like the Darlings and their descendants whose very 288 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: relationships are criminal, but for folks. I think it's fair 289 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: to say, whatever is going on with Ossian Dustin, He's 290 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: not what you'd call neurotypical, right. He is someone who 291 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: has built this kind of religious cosmology around the search 292 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: for this treasure. He has visions that he talks about 293 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: regularly of a figure in shining gold guiding him along, 294 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: and in most of the rest of the country, a 295 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: man who said these things and did these things would 296 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: have been forced into a sanitarium where he would have 297 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: fucking died of cholera. Right, that's this guy's story. Ninety 298 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: nine percent of the US is he is imprisoned and 299 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: left to die of disease, but instead he's eighty years old, 300 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: you know. And Holman is absolute like repeatedly mentions he's 301 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: the happiest, one of the happiest men that he's ever met. Right, Like, 302 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: this guy has has built a life for himself, which 303 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: is a pretty awesome achievement. And Holman is human enough 304 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: to recognize that he's witnessing something remarkable. Well at the 305 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: same time rejecting this man's beliefs as worth any thought. Quote, 306 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: it can scarcely be said that Uncle Ossian's unfailing cheerfulness 307 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: springs from any philosophy of life that he has evolved. 308 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: But after our talk, I came out of his dingy 309 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: hut with the feeling that probably some of the proud 310 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: folk in the cottages down the bay needed pity more 311 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: than he. So he's like, Wow, this guy seems deeply 312 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: happy and has lived in an advanced age, but there's 313 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: probably nothing worth studying. And like his approach to life, 314 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if he's not Ray, he's not in 315 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: them money. I don't know, man. Maybe he figured something 316 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: out that most of us never do. Yeah, he seems firal. 317 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: Maybe he found a goal the year after him. 318 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: Maybe he did. 319 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 3: Maybe he did. 320 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: So again. Holman here is kind of on the edge 321 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: of a revelation that his journey through these islands makes 322 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: crystal clear, which is that civilization is not an unalloyed good, 323 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: and many marginalized people have always been able to take 324 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: care of themselves better by dropping out of it. That 325 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: has been a fact of history for as long as 326 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: people have been like building cities and making rules. Is 327 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: that some people, particularly those persecuted society, are better off 328 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: without them. Next, Holman visits Spruce Island, inhabited solely by 329 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: three elderly men, the Shanks brothers, William, Daniel, and Nehemiah. 330 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: They had lived all their lives and what he describes 331 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: as a tumble down shelter. William and Daniel never married, 332 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: but Neamiyah had what our writer Buddy patronizingly calls a 333 00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: poor little romance that broke his heart. Basically, Neamia and 334 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: their dad used to go to Portland to sell their 335 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: fish catch, and at one point this lady married him 336 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: as a con to take his money family savings away, 337 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: which is sad their father forgave Neemiyah by tasking him 338 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: to watch over his brothers for the rest of their lives. 339 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: It kind of seems again like his brothers at least 340 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: are it sounds like a myth that you're telling. Well, 341 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: I mean this is amazing. He meant these people basically 342 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: what you know? Yeah, no, no, no, no, I believe it. 343 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: It's just I think that it's like his actual life 344 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: has elements that are mythic storytelling. Yeah, like, ah, you 345 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: have done You've failed in this way by being tricked. 346 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 3: Now you have a new task. Yeah, and it does. 347 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: It does. That is kind of what's cool happening because 348 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: like William and Daniel, it seems like are again what 349 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: you would say, not neurotypical, right they are. They are 350 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: not people who can live. Neamiah probably could have, these 351 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: are not people who can exist in the regular society 352 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: of the time. Their dad realizes that and he's like, look, 353 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,120 Speaker 1: you've got to take care of them because this is 354 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: the only place that they're ever going to have. And 355 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: so that's what Neami. These guys are all like, I 356 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: think in their sixties seventies when Holman meets them, and 357 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: it's an int remarkable stories you've noted, and it gets 358 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: kind of more fascinating to me. There's a paragraph in 359 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: here about William in particular that I have not been 360 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: able to get out of my head since I read 361 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: it for more than twenty years. William has never come 362 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: out of the hut into the sunshine. He told me 363 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: that he feared the sun might heat his brains and 364 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: interfere with his life work, which is the composition of poetry. 365 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: There is a brain blanket slung across one end of 366 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: the hut. William sits behind his blank this blanket and 367 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: fixes his eyes on the sunlight that enters through Anthole 368 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: and composes. He states that he is now the author 369 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: of a thousand pieces, none of which he ever writes down. 370 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: He just his entire life is sitting in that chair, 371 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: filling his brain with his own poetry that no one 372 00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: else will ever hear. 373 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 4: That's yeah, that's cool, Yeah, that's like. Yeah, it's like 374 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 4: the anchor writes. The people who would like to go 375 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: and like wall themselves. 376 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: Up, Yeah, like yeah, And I honestly, you know, if 377 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: Holman was a better journalist. The thing to do would 378 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: be like, would you read me some poems, like so 379 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: I can write them down. I want to know what 380 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: this is like. 381 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, yeah, he's either like he's probably the 382 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 4: best or worst poets, never absolute trash verse. 383 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: Yeah either way, that's there's like a deep kind of 384 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: harrowing beauty and that that simple statement about this guy's life. Anyway, 385 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: when I started researching this, my thinking was again that 386 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: I would start with the tale of Benjamin Darling and 387 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: then Malaga and how it became a haven for these 388 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: kind of like these people who had who couldn't live 389 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: in regular society or chose not to and built this 390 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: resilient culture of their own, and how that culture was 391 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: destroyed in the name of progress. But for all my 392 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: issues with homans smugness and dismissal of the depth of 393 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: inner life lived by his subjects, I must admit that 394 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: the substantial footwork he did is what keyed me into 395 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: the deeper story here, because the people he's describing, a 396 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: lot of these folks. You lead a guy like Ossian, right, 397 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: you look at people like these brothers. These are folks 398 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: who today would probably be living on the street, right, 399 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: you know, if they don't have family support, if they 400 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: don't have like some access to funding, a lot like 401 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: these are people who cannot fit in with capitalism, right. 402 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: You know. They can do like some odd jobs and 403 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: stuff here, but they're never going to like buy a 404 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: house in a city. They're never going to like own 405 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: anything that they have a deed for. That's like not 406 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: for most of these people, not the kind of people 407 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: that they are. And while there was this place where 408 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: they could go and be outside of the law and free, 409 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: a lot of them lived okay lives based on the 410 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: standards of the time, you know, verging on a lot 411 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: better lives than many of the people back on land 412 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: would have lived. Not that they were easy lives, but 413 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: they were lives. And that's not an option for people 414 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: like this anymore. 415 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 4: There's just there's no outside anymore. It's like one of 416 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 4: the things that you. 417 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: Know, there's no it's not like any you know, the 418 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote places that aren't owned, you know, by somebody 419 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: who can lock you out, are owned by the city, 420 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: who can make a law saying it's illegal DeCamp there 421 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, So this is a story about how 422 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: that happened and about how these anti vagrancy laws that 423 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: primarily got instituted in order to police the behavior of 424 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: newly free black Americans kind of coincided with the disgust 425 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: of moneyed people in cities against the folks who had 426 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: managed to build a life outside of them. That's that's 427 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. But you know what we're talking about, first, Margaret, 428 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: what's that ads for products? 429 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 3: Wait? Why are there there's advertisers on this? 430 00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: There sure are, there's sure are all of whom I 431 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I don't know. I'm kind of 432 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: kind of bumming out right now. So we're just we're 433 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: just gonna throw to ads. I don't have a joke. 434 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: Here you go. Ah, we're back. You know, good, good stuff. 435 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: We're we're feeling happy. Everybody's having a good time and 436 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: on a solid emotional level. 437 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: So yay. 438 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm having a good time. Yeah, uh yeah, it's 439 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: it's cool. And obviously, like you know, the fact that 440 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: these islands were available for this descendants of the Darlings 441 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: and all these other people is partly a result of 442 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: the ongoing genocide against the indigenous peoples who had inhabited 443 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: them before. But you know, Benjamin Darling didn't have a 444 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: choice about being here, right, Like, I don't, I don't, 445 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: I can't. I don't put that on them that like, well, shit, 446 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: there's nobody here, and like the folks in those cities 447 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: suck ass. Let's get the fuck out of here, you know, 448 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: like what else are they going to do? 449 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 4: Right? 450 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: So, as I write this, in Portland, Oregon, the mayor 451 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: Ted Wheeler is working to has Actually when I wrote this, 452 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: he was still building support for it. But the vote 453 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: just passed to ban camping, as he calls it, during 454 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: daylight hours on city property. This includes the parks in 455 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: green spaces that tend to be preferred by the kind 456 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: of folks who find themselves living in encampments. And of 457 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: course these laws are not meant to criminalize the kind 458 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: of camping that like affluent white people do where they 459 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: like go out to camp to feel connected to nature. 460 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: What they're trying to criminalize is the existence of people 461 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: who cannot afford rent or a house, who they don't 462 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: really care where these people end up. A camp, like 463 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: a concentration camp is kind of the thing that Ted 464 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: Wheeler is floating is like actively trying to build support 465 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 1: for is like enforced camps where people are checked when 466 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: they enter and leave and have like their hours restricted 467 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: and are searched when they come in, Like that is 468 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: the goal. I think the real goal would be just 469 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: to like force them to move somewhere else. People used 470 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: to bust their homeless folks to California. Yeah, but yeah, 471 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: it's it's it is kind of One of the things 472 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: that I'm frustrated by is sort of the patronizing mockery 473 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: of describing these people as as like camping, you know, 474 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: like these are their homes. This is the lives that 475 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: they've built for themselves. It's kind of like describing the 476 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: people of Malaga or whatever is like hermits living in caves, 477 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: where it's like, no, I mean they have they have 478 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: structures that they built, they have houses, like they're just 479 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: they're they're living the life that they are able to live. 480 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: Like you don't have to be a dick about it. 481 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: You couldn't you couldn't hack it out there. So from 482 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: time to time folks put out in this way attempt 483 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: to construct more elaborate structures for themselves in order to survive. 484 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: A lot of this makes me think about the kind 485 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: of communities that build up on these islands in Malaga, 486 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: and they make me think. When I was reading about 487 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: and looking at some of the photos of the houses there, 488 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: I was brought back to a story of a guy 489 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: outside of Portland named Mikey, who in November of twenty 490 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: twenty built a two story wooden home for himself off 491 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: Airport Way. This immediately became like a huge There was 492 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of different like conservative news stories and stuff 493 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: that like fucking covered this kind of a representative example 494 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: is on a Babylon b affiliated website written by an 495 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: author who gives his name as the Ghost of Reagan, 496 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: titled this Portland homeless Man's house is fancier than your home. 497 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: It's interesting, Like when he was interviewed by local media, 498 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: he was like, I needed somewhere to live and I 499 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: hate tents, so I like built myself a house. And 500 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: of course the city finds out. Yeah, like pisses off 501 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: all these right wingers. Mikey gets forced out of his home, 502 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: which is demolished. You know, I love that that they're 503 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: going to present this man as lazy. 504 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know this this on industrious man who has 505 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 4: built a two stories where's. 506 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: The third story? There's not even a basement. Yeah, and 507 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: it is like, you know, when you're talking about sort 508 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: of some of the problems of encamp ments and stuff. 509 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: You know, I live near several of them. You and 510 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: I just went and put out a fire at one 511 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: the other day. Now, in that case, I think it 512 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: was a fire started by there's some local kids who 513 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: like to attack homeless people. I believe it was them 514 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: lighting some of their shit on fire, because it seems 515 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: to be random, you know that said stuff like that. 516 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: I talk to people who live there. Sometimes it's like 517 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: one group has beef with another and like their shit 518 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: gets lit on fire. There's also like fires happen in 519 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: these encampments because of improperly you know, handled like propane 520 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: stoves and stuff. There are problems that need to be 521 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: dealt with, and in some cases even it, like especially 522 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: during fire season, you may have to say like, hey, guys, 523 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: we can't have a bunch of fucking propane burners out here. 524 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: It's going to cause like a serious problem for a 525 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: lot of people. I'm not saying like there shouldn't be 526 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: any kind of like attention paid to what people do 527 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: if they decide to set up homes for themselves. On 528 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: like you know, city property or whatever. I just don't 529 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: think the default should be destroying everything they have and 530 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: putting them in jail, like you know, there's all this, 531 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: it's also this like yeah. 532 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 4: I just I can't quite wrap my head around the 533 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 4: kind of person who thinks that criminalizing homelessness is a 534 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 4: good idea, because part of it is like, well, but 535 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 4: that could just be yeah, right, like that could just 536 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 4: like the crime is that they had a series of 537 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 4: bad events and you just assume that your life will 538 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 4: never include bad events, Like what life have you led 539 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 4: where you don't have bad events? Like yeah, I don't know, 540 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 4: I don't know how to even phrase it. It just 541 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 4: makes no sense to me. 542 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 1: And there's and there's like a lot of options that 543 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: are not like obviously there's a lot of safety reasons 544 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: why yeah, maybe we can't just have people setting up 545 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: wherever they want to, like for example, like in the 546 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: West during fire season, that presents a danger. I spent 547 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: a decent amount of time back in twenty fifteen in 548 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: a place called Nicholsville, which is one of a couple 549 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: of Nicholsville's that have existed in Seattle, which was like 550 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: empty land that local homeless people started building tiny homes 551 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: in fairly well constructed safe they were able to get 552 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: like trash pickup and stuff, and as a result, it 553 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: was like a decent safe play. I mean, eventually they 554 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: got forced out. It's happened a couple of times. But 555 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that's kind of neat 556 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: is that there have also been like kind of the 557 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: attention that this got helped build support in Seattle for 558 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: local and governments to embrace some ideas that kind of 559 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: offer more dignity on autonomy to houseless regiments like Nicholsville, 560 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: and so there have been we've seen the creation of 561 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: more kind of like tiny home villages made for recycled 562 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: materials and stuff, where people kind of have more autonomy 563 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: and are involved in the project of like helping to 564 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: craft their own living spaces. These are not perfect. These 565 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: projects are generally, when they're legal, are conducted under the 566 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: strict eye of the city. This sometimes means that some 567 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: of them have like mandatory searches for drugs or strict 568 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: limits on what pets are available. But you know, it's better, 569 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, certainly than a lot of options that exist. 570 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: I do find it frustrating that when homeless people build 571 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: their own communities on undeveloped land, rather than being given 572 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: access to services that might allow them to do this 573 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: safely and hygenically, they're more often forced violently out of 574 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: their homes at greater expense than it would be to 575 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: provide them with services, because it's not cheap to actually 576 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: do all this. When cities do give these people the 577 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: opportunity to exist in a place where they could build 578 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: some sort of comfort for themselves, the reactions from neighbors 579 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: are often vicious, and I want to quote from a 580 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen article in Crosscut about a Seattle community called 581 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: Nicholsville in Ballard. This is a couple of years after. 582 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: I think it's from a different location from the one 583 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: I went to quote. The plan to build one of 584 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: the camps near residences and in the middle of businesses 585 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: on the west end of Ballard's Market Street drew frustration 586 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: and angry objections, including from the Ballard Chamber of Commerce. 587 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: When the news report was reported on My Ballard, it 588 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: garnered nearly one hundred comments. Reasonable voices were drowned out 589 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: by the aggressive rhetoric of some commenters. The real brilliance 590 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: put them between a liquor store and a bar. Brilliant 591 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: thinking better Yet, let's put them right at the gateway 592 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: of a historic treasure, like the Locks, one of our 593 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: most visited sites, wrote one commenter on my ballard. Another 594 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: compared the encampment to an episode of The Walking Dead, 595 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: claiming the area would no doubt go to total shit fuck. 596 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, that means that person's thinking about machine gun in there. 597 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, of course. Yeah. And it's like, there's 598 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: this outrage people have, not just when homeless people build 599 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: something for theirselves, but when they do it in a 600 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: place where like they have a nice view. There was 601 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: an article that went viral in Portland in April, and 602 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to quote from the Fox coverage of this. 603 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: Residents living near Portland's Willamette River have witnessed a series 604 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: of homeless cabins and structures being built on prime river 605 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: real estate with million dollar city views, but have so 606 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: far been unable to get anyone to do anything about it. 607 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: Pretty Much everyone comes back and says they don't have 608 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,959 Speaker 1: jurisdiction because it's Union Pacific rail Road. Rick Scaramella, who 609 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: owns a condominium on the other side of the Willamette 610 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: River told KOI n on a report. In a report 611 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: Thursday this Voice, I hate it too. Scaramella told the 612 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: outlet that people from across the river. Across the river 613 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: from his home have been building makeshift cabins complete with doors, windows, 614 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: and sometimes even solar panels, on the banks of the 615 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: river that feature views of downtown Portland. Rick, fuck you. 616 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: I hope you step on a nail and get tetanus. 617 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: That costs you your leg. That's what I hope for you, Rick, Scaramella. 618 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: You fucking condo owning piece of shit, like they've got 619 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: a nice view and they didn't pay what I paid 620 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:39,959 Speaker 1: for it. 621 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: I don't know. 622 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: Suck my dick, Rick, go fuck yourself. 623 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 3: I lived. 624 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 4: I've been a squad in a lot of different cities 625 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 4: at various points, and I remember and one I think 626 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 4: that the way the Netherlands used to handle it until 627 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 4: they changed the laws is brilliant, which is a lot 628 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 4: of people were suddenly houseless in the late eighties. I'm 629 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 4: gonna have the timeline of this a little bit wrong. Yeah, 630 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 4: the ladies and so eventually everyone just started squatting all 631 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 4: of these buildings and it became this massive thing, and 632 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 4: eventually they got the law changed where if a building 633 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 4: was left vacant for a year with no clear plan 634 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 4: of what was going to happen to it, it was 635 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 4: legal for people to squat it. And so you don't 636 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 4: have real estate prospectors holding properties empty while people need houses, 637 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 4: because if you leave it empty, someone's gonna move in 638 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 4: and then you're fucked as the landowner or whatever. And 639 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 4: so it got people to lower rents, it got people 640 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 4: to sell properties to families, and it provided squatters places 641 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 4: to live. And I remember I at this moment, I 642 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 4: was playing accordion on the street with one of my 643 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 4: squatterfront's next to me, and this person comes up and 644 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 4: asks my friend, why does that accordion player play such 645 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 4: sad music? And the actual answer is that I'm a 646 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 4: goth and I like sad music. But the answer that 647 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 4: my squatter friend had was like, oh, it's because we're squatters. 648 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 4: We spend all of our time building things and then 649 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 4: they come and they take them away, And I just 650 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 4: I think about that where it's like there's this version 651 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 4: of the squatter where they like they shit everywhere and 652 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,959 Speaker 4: they live in absolute hord everything. But then when people 653 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 4: are like, okay, I'm going to build a cabin. I'm 654 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 4: going to put solar panels on it. I'm going to 655 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 4: like get the trash taken out. I'm going to like 656 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 4: try and do this right. Yeah, people get even angrier 657 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 4: because they want people living in squalor, because they want 658 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 4: people to suffer, because they're bad people. 659 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the like you know again, I spend a 660 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: lot of time in and around encampments. I'm like friendly 661 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: with One of the reasons why I'm friendly with folks 662 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: is that, like a year or so ago, a woman 663 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: I lived with, who has had an infant child at 664 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: the time, was like going along this area and got 665 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: shot at by kids on very nice new motorbikes with 666 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: BB guns, and like some of the local homeless folks 667 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: like rallied to her defense. And we're like, yeah, they 668 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: come and like shoot at us all the time. It's 669 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: just like a thing shitty kids do. And you know, 670 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,479 Speaker 1: I've gotten to know folks and stuff, and it's you see, like, yeah, 671 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: I don't like that there's trash out there. I don't 672 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: like that there's piles of trash in a nice natural area. 673 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: That's not nice, you know, where there would be big 674 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: piles of trash if I is my house, if I 675 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: didn't have access to like city trash pickup. You know, 676 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: like this is an optional and it's cheaper than letting 677 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: it all build up and then hiring professionals to come 678 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: and deal with it, like they don't want to live 679 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: in trail Like anyway, there's solutions to this that aren't 680 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: sending the fucking cops and the fucking biohazard drugs every 681 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: like two or three times a year to fuck with 682 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: people's stuff. You know, I find the discourse around this 683 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: all very frustrating, which is why this episode got written. 684 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, let's go back to Mlaga Island. So in 685 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: nineteen oh eight, you know, The Walking Dead was still 686 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: a couple of years away from being on television. But 687 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: Holman Day's description of the community isn't much more interests 688 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: than that fear mongering bullshit We hurt a little earlier. 689 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: As a no man's land, Malaga has more striking peculiarities 690 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: than any other island alongshore. There are about fifty persons 691 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: on it oft, all of grades of Negro blood, and 692 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 1: most of them descendants of a runaway slave who came 693 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: and hid here more years ago than any man about 694 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 1: their remembers. That's Benjamin Darling. He's talking about These people 695 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: form a strange clan. They have married and intermarried until 696 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: the trespass on consanguinity has until the trespass on consanguinality 697 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: has produced its usual lamentable effects. They are as near 698 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: to being children of nature as it is possible for 699 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: people to be who are only as stones to away 700 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: from the mainland and civilization. They lack entirely the spirit 701 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: of thrift and of providing for future emergencies. Winter after winter, 702 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: through all the years they have shivered and starved, but 703 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: never does November find a woodpile on Malaga, nor a 704 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: weak supply of food in reserve. To counsel on economy 705 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: and to preachment on thrift. They are as inattentive as 706 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: little children would be. A coast missionary took in hand 707 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: one especially improvident family of six father, mother and four 708 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: children well grown. Spurred by him, they fished doug clams, 709 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: sold bait to trawlers, and at the end of the 710 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: summer had saved about seventy dollars among them. Then the 711 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: missionary went away, confident that at least one Malaga family 712 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: would reach march Hill in comparative comfort. When his back 713 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: was turned, they used for kindlings the shingles that he 714 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: had given them for the repair of their miserable Hut 715 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: bought six dogs in order to each member of the 716 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: family could have his own pet, and spent the rest 717 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,399 Speaker 1: of the money for sweets, pickles, jellies, and fancy groceries. 718 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: He's literally be like these poor people are buying nice food, 719 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: they have pets. I also love like he is full 720 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: of shit here, like everything he says about them, like 721 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: not being able to store food, they don't know how 722 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: to survive the winter. They don't like you know, like yeah, 723 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean among other things, like he's like their children 724 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 1: are well grown and healthy where It's like, how did 725 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: they get that way home? Man? It just happened by 726 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: accident before this minister showed up. Or were they actually 727 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: capable of taking care of themselves. We know again from 728 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: recent archaeology that local children were reasonably well educated by 729 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: the standards of the time, and the fact that this 730 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: community survived more than half a century and more like 731 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: about a century doesn't really suggest people who were incapable 732 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: of planning for the future or storing food. Archivist Kate McBryan, 733 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 1: who curated an exhibition about Malaga for the Maine State Museum, 734 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: notes the documentary and archaeological evidence refutes all of these myths. 735 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: The people of Malaga Island lived just like their neighbors 736 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: on the mainland. Again, we have evidence of how these 737 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: people lived and it was not in like shocking desperation, 738 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: and Holman's article includes photographs that don't agree with the 739 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: statements in his article. The only extant visual evidence of 740 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: Malaga in these days shows well dressed women in what 741 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: appear to be competently constructed homes like here's and you 742 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: know this is like there are some mission there's like 743 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: a missionary family on the island who seemed like they 744 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: were pretty chill, but like these homes are older than 745 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: them showing up like Sophie, if you'll show Margaret the picture, 746 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: like these are these are not like tumble down shacks 747 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: like these are well, seem to be pretty well constructed 748 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: homes with like shingles and shit, like you can see 749 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: them like in the article where you're talking about like 750 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: these are competently built homes. 751 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 3: I don't know what is fucking talking. 752 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 4: They burned all the shingles except for the ones that 753 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 4: are on all the shingles you can see and the siding. 754 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of big use of shingles. 755 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 756 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 4: And then the house in the background is even more 757 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 4: like that. It's nice, Yes, it's fine. Yeah. They we're 758 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,720 Speaker 4: doing plenty of windows, a lot of yeah, and windows 759 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 4: is like when you're building a house on the chips. 760 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,879 Speaker 4: Windows is like the crazy expensive part, you know. Yeah, yeah, 761 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 4: they got fucking glass and stuff. 762 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: You know. They're clearly like again, interfacing with mainstream society 763 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: to some extent to get stuff that they can't. You 764 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: can't make your You're not going to have like build 765 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: a glacier in some island off the coast of Maine, 766 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: so they get what they need. 767 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 3: There's multiple uh, multiple gables. 768 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 4: Enough house in the back right, Like that's not even 769 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 4: just like like that is fancier than if I went 770 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 4: out and built a house I would build. 771 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 3: You know. 772 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, you know, it's fine. I find this 773 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: all particularly fascinating in light of how differently Holman describes 774 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,439 Speaker 1: another one of these communities, Loud's Island. Now, we don't 775 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: have information on what the specific racial makeup makeup of 776 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: Loud's island was. But my assumption is that they were 777 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: mostly white, and my assumption that there is that they 778 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: were mostly white, because Holman does not describe them as 779 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: blacker mixed race, and he does that every single time 780 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 1: he writes about Malaga. So again, these are two islands 781 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: like a mile from each other something like that. Here's 782 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: how he describes Loud's Island, and I'm gonna say you 783 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: can pick up on the slant in his coverage at all. 784 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: It has a considerable population of thrifty fishermen and farmers. 785 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 1: They live in good houses and are intelligent. They and 786 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: their ancestors have dwelt here for more than one hundred 787 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: and fifty years. But the men of the island have 788 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: never voted in any election towns or state or national. 789 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: They have never paid any state in our county taxes. 790 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: They resisted the draft at the time of the Civil 791 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: War and drove the officers off the island with clubs 792 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: and rocks. They say they do not need the protecting 793 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: arm of state or national government. They raise money for 794 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: schools and roads, elect municipal officers to administer affairs, and 795 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: seem to get along very comfortably. The Malaga is doing 796 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: this it's the same thing. They've got their own little 797 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: thing going on, and they don't trust the government, like 798 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: just like these other people. But one of them get 799 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: described as like thrifty pioneers and the other like dangerous, 800 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,280 Speaker 1: savage or not dangerous. He doesn't describe the miss dangerous. 801 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: Give him that they live close to nature, animals exactly. Yeah, 802 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 1: so Holman paints a picture of the Malagaites is all 803 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: but incapable of work because of their childlike nature. The 804 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: fact that he describes them as harmless does not make 805 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: this less toxic. And we know that his assessment was 806 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: again inaccurate. By the early nineteen hundreds, many Malagaites worked 807 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: ashore at resorts like the New Meadows. In from a 808 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty article in Downey Magazine, quote their ragtag Island neighbors, 809 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: some white, some black, many of mixed blood living in 810 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: make dew dwellings became an embarrassing eye sore to both 811 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: local and summer and year round residents. There was a belief, too, 812 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: made popular by several widely read even sensational sociology studies 813 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: of the time, that poverty, crime, and mental retardation stemmed 814 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: directly from retrograde families, and that removing such decaying stock 815 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: would improve the moral fiber of society. Oh god, in 816 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: nineteen oh half step from here to Nazis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 817 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: we are right on the road. This is right when 818 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: eugenics is starting up. Like it all is cooking together, right, 819 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: this is all you're putting, putting more stuff in the pot, right, 820 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: you know. Now you've got a stew going, right now, 821 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: you got a real racism stew agoing. So in nineteen 822 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: oh eight, the same year as holman Days, Harper's article, 823 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: main established a school for the feeble minded, later renamed 824 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: the Pineland Center. This was a prison where poor unfortunates 825 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: would be removed from public site, basically right. This happened 826 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,479 Speaker 1: as the media campaign against the Islanders reached a fever pitch, 827 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: and the people who lived on the mainland grew horrified 828 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: that the bad press about these Islanders might rub off 829 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: on them and damage their reputations to like folks in 830 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: New York, they might think everyone in Maine was like 831 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: a savage, right, Like, that's a big part of why 832 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: they take action. 833 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 3: Now. 834 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: By the standards of a lot of these articles, I 835 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: will say Holman's Peace positively shines. And to provide an 836 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 1: example of that, I'm going to read a quote from 837 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 1: an article in the Casco Bay Breeze from nineteen oh five. 838 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: This is them talking about the Malagaites. They drank tea 839 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: spelled with a capital if you please, for if reports 840 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: be true, its strength would sink a ship tobacco as 841 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: their ambrosia. And it said they would almost sell their 842 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: souls for a cut. A superstitious race, are they on Malaga? 843 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: Even the screeching of an owl is an ominous sign 844 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: for them? And then the author goes on to suggest 845 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: that these people should be removed from their home so 846 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: that summer houses can be built upon the island. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 847 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: I hope that guy died badly. From nineteen ten on, 848 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: the state began pumping more and more resources into Malaga 849 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: in the form of aid. And again, this is one 850 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: of the justifications is they're like, look at all this share, 851 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: look at all the public aid money they're taking, all 852 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: of like the welfare money that they're taking, which like 853 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: they'd basically gotten none up until the early nineteen hundreds 854 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: when suddenly it starts being pushed into the island by 855 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: the state government. And then they're like, well, now that 856 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: you're receiving aid, we have to go police things to 857 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,839 Speaker 1: make sure that you're not doing things improperly, which leads 858 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: immediately to them taking children away from their families because 859 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 1: the living standards aren't high enough, and these children are 860 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: taken and immediately interned in the School for the Feeble Minded, 861 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: because obviously these kids can't learn, like they wouldn't live 862 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: out here if they were capable of learning things, So 863 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: let's take them from their loving families and put them 864 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: in a prison home. The purpose of all this was 865 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: laid out quite clearly in a nineteen sixty eight article 866 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: of The Pineland Observer. Looking back on this moment, Maine 867 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,239 Speaker 1: was reputedly a wasteland with popular pockets of social indigence 868 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: of low intelligence. It was considered advisable for the good 869 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: of society that these little settlements be broken up and 870 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: persons incapable of working moved to a home for them. 871 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 1: In nineteen eleven, I don't like it. No, it's not good. 872 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: It's bad, Margaret, It's real bad. In nineteen eleven, a 873 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: whole family was forced out of their home on Malaga 874 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: for the very first time. The justification was that the 875 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,399 Speaker 1: father and one of his sons were both terminally ill, 876 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: so they and all of their younger siblings were forced 877 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: into a sanitarium at the stroke of a doctor's pen. 878 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,920 Speaker 1: That year, Mulaga was declared by the state government to 879 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,240 Speaker 1: be part of Phitpsburg. They also decided that a wealthy 880 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: family from that town actually owned the island. Now, this 881 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: family had never bought Mulaga Island. They were the family 882 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: who had bought Horse Island from the Darlings in eighteen 883 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: forty seven, before the Darlings bought Malaga Island, and so 884 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: basically they are like, well, if they bought Horse Island, 885 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,280 Speaker 1: they must also own the island. That the black people 886 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: they that sold the island to them like bought right, 887 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,280 Speaker 1: it must be their property too. So this family become 888 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: the owners of Malaga Island, which becomes an excuse for 889 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: the local government to send the sheriff in with an 890 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: order for everyone to vacate. Modern sources agree that this 891 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: was all extremely illegal, But the Malagites are going to 892 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: be evicted without resistance. They're given tiny pittances for their 893 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: homes and forced onto the mainland. We have but a 894 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: few precious direct writings from residents at this time. One 895 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: is from a letter by an islander named Nelson Layton McKinney. 896 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: And here's what he says about the process of eviction. 897 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: And this is after he and his family have been 898 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: forced out. The others of us are having hard times 899 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: to find homes anywhere on all an account of folks 900 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 1: saying we've got the cramp catch in our fingers and 901 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,799 Speaker 1: take too many things that are lying around loose. But 902 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,320 Speaker 1: it's all a lie. We don't steal if we are poor. 903 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: If you know any place where I can crawl in 904 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: with my wife and five kids and my old peg leg, 905 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: please let me know, right because of like all of 906 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: the rumors about how these people are like dangerous tramps 907 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,919 Speaker 1: who will steal it. And he's not layed, laid down 908 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: once the state kicks them out of their home, like 909 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 1: they can't find any place to settle, you know, no 910 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: one will rent to them, no one will like let them, 911 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, live anywhere, because they're dangerous. In nineteen twelve, 912 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: the last forty five holdouts on Malaga are evicted by 913 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: Governor Plaistead, who made a big showy visit to the 914 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: island with media in tow before finishing the eviction, he 915 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: had himself photographed setting foot on the island like a 916 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 1: conquering hero. He and his executive council ordered the eviction 917 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: of the community after taking eight residents into custody and 918 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: forcibly institutionalizing them, putting them in a mental institution. 919 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 2: Right. 920 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: The justification in most of these cases, for like, why 921 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: these people had to be put in an insane asylum 922 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,440 Speaker 1: was that when questioned, they didn't recognize a phone. Now 923 00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: this is nineteen twelve. 924 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 925 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: None of these people were born in a world with phones, 926 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: and there are no phones on the island in which 927 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,319 Speaker 1: they live. But they don't know a phone. Put them, 928 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: Lock them up forever in an insane asylum death camp, 929 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: you know. 930 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, which is funny because you could show the same 931 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 4: phone to someone born fifteen years ago and they might 932 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 4: not recognize it either. 933 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 3: Things change, Yeah, Like, and. 934 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,799 Speaker 1: It's one of those like I don't know, you know what, 935 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: maybe they don't recognize a phone. What I would like 936 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: to see, governor place dead. Can you last an entire 937 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: winter alone on fucking Malaga Islands? 938 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? 939 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,880 Speaker 1: Oh no, you're dead, ah, cause you're not competent to 940 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 1: manage your affairs anyway. Yeah, you know who's competent to 941 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,360 Speaker 1: manage all of our affairs, Margaret, Ooh, is it stuff? 942 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 1: It is the products and services that support this podcast 943 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: are the only people who should be allowed to vote. 944 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree on that absolutely, and 945 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:06,800 Speaker 1: we're back living in a product ocracy. So Governor Playstead 946 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: evicts the last people on Malaga Island in nineteen twelve. 947 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: The island is almost immediately sold to a friend and 948 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,320 Speaker 1: a business partner of the governor's, a guy named doctor 949 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: Gustavus Kilgore, who had signed the commitment levers letters to 950 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: the institution of all of the evicts. That's cool. Fuck, 951 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: not crooked at all. They're not at all crooked. No, 952 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 1: it's fine, it's fine. It's fine. 953 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 3: This isn't a. 954 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: Problem that could have all been solved with one well 955 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: placed pipe bomb. So good stuff, good stuff. Other photos 956 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: from the island before its clearing became popular tourist chachkes. 957 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: One infamous set is called The Deuce of Spades and 958 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,799 Speaker 1: the Tray of Spades, and it shows a black woman 959 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: sitting inside of a corral holding a small child. The 960 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 1: other postcard shows the same woman with two children looking 961 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,800 Speaker 1: through a fence line. The implication was that the malaga 962 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,719 Speaker 1: Ites kept their children lif animals in a pin, when 963 00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: it was really like a photo of a family who 964 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,400 Speaker 1: kept animals properly on their land that they lived on. 965 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,879 Speaker 1: But like, look they're animals, their kids are in a pin. 966 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: It's it's very frustrating. Once the state forced everyone off 967 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: of Mlaga Island, they exhumed the local cemetery and put 968 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,800 Speaker 1: them in prison. No, no, they rebury them on the mainland. 969 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,480 Speaker 4: Which what they do they do put them in prison 970 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 4: because they just saying, but the kids, they're like, these 971 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,240 Speaker 4: people keep kids in pens. 972 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 3: That's fucked up. We better put those kids in a 973 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 3: prison and. 974 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,799 Speaker 1: A crazy people jail, which they do anyway, I'm sorry. 975 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 1: Then they dig up all of their dead relatives and 976 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: bury them the institution, like they literally imprison the corpses. 977 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,520 Speaker 1: Like it is like, I don't know, maybe there's a 978 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: degree of like the fear level, the fear that like 979 00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: these rich and powerful people always have about folks who 980 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: don't need them, or the society that they've thrived in, 981 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:08,320 Speaker 1: about folks who like literally like enthusiastically reject the society 982 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: in which these people are successful and manage to make 983 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: a life for themselves is the most frightening thing of 984 00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:18,280 Speaker 1: all of them anyway. Cool stuff. A January nineteen thirteen 985 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: news article celebrated cleaning up Malaga Island no longer a 986 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,839 Speaker 1: reproach to the good name of the state. It celebrated 987 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: that these dispossessed people had been raised to a standard 988 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,839 Speaker 1: of living they'd probably never dreamed of before. Look, they 989 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 1: never dreamed of prisons. Yeah, before this, none of them 990 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 1: had died of cholera in a dank cell. 991 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,520 Speaker 3: Progress. They can use a phone once a week. 992 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, they can see the phone. They're not allowed to 993 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,840 Speaker 1: use it now when they know as a phone number. 994 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,120 Speaker 1: That article in Down East magazine, The Shameful Story of 995 00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: Malaga from nineteen eighty goes further about kind of what 996 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:05,799 Speaker 1: happens to these folks after eviction. Except for those sent 997 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: to the main school for the feeble minded, no provision 998 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: had been made for the other islanders, and, as the 999 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,880 Speaker 1: press soon discovered, not only was it costly to support 1000 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 1: people at the state home, but surrounding towns and refusing 1001 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: popper status to the displaced Islanders denied their right to 1002 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 1: belong to any community. King McKinney and Jerry Murphy were lucky. 1003 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,279 Speaker 1: They rafted their houses to lots on the mainland at 1004 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 1: Pipsburg and Meadowbrook. Not so fortunate was Robert Tripp's family, who, 1005 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,520 Speaker 1: having rafted their house up on a whole, sailed up 1006 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 1: the new ret Meadows River in search of a lot, 1007 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 1: but were prevented from landing by prosperous Christian people and 1008 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 1: town authorities. Caught literally between the well known rock and 1009 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 1: a hard place, the family hawsered up some trees on 1010 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: the tiny bush island. They were barely able to eke 1011 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,680 Speaker 1: out an existence and often bordered on starvation. This was 1012 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: acknowledged in a newspaper story of December nineteen fourteen, the 1013 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,280 Speaker 1: first year of World War One, with a headline reading 1014 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,280 Speaker 1: Maine misery as dark as Belgium's. When Laura Tripp, formerly 1015 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: strong and healthy, soon became desperately ill, her husband rode 1016 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,400 Speaker 1: three miles for help through the worst gale that has 1017 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,520 Speaker 1: swept the coast in years, but by the time he 1018 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 1: returned with a doctor, his wife had died. She was 1019 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: later buried in Potter's Field. And probably it is the 1020 00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: place to point out that, like you know, being evicted 1021 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,160 Speaker 1: increases mortality by an enormous amount, Like having all of 1022 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,400 Speaker 1: your stuff trashed, having like whatever structures you've built trashed 1023 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,759 Speaker 1: increases the risk of mortality. You know, this war on 1024 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: the homelessness in San Diego has been met with a 1025 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,360 Speaker 1: lot of deaths of houseless people. This is what happens 1026 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,799 Speaker 1: anywhere this kind of shit goes on, and it was 1027 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:44,480 Speaker 1: happening back then too. The war on vagrancy continued even 1028 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,239 Speaker 1: though I should know. Sorry, Malaga Island remains uninhabited to 1029 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,719 Speaker 1: this day. There are if you find some modern stories 1030 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,359 Speaker 1: about descendants of the Darlings, there's people with last named 1031 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: Darling who like found within the Latin most within the 1032 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,759 Speaker 1: last like ten years, the story of their family and 1033 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: like where they like what had happened. There have been 1034 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,959 Speaker 1: some attempts, like there's been like official apologies from local 1035 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: governments in Maine. There have been like some trips that 1036 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,760 Speaker 1: some of these descendants have gotten to take to Malaga Island. 1037 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:16,799 Speaker 1: There's like been This is part of why there's we 1038 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,160 Speaker 1: know what we do now, Like archaeology has been done. 1039 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,360 Speaker 1: People have been studying this. But there are one of 1040 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,480 Speaker 1: the stories I read it was it was with some 1041 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, this young woman who was like, I never 1042 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: had heard about any of this, and when I brought 1043 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: it up, her dad was like, don't fucking look into this, 1044 00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,359 Speaker 1: like because there was still this fear of like this 1045 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,000 Speaker 1: is dangerous, Like don't go dig in this shit up, 1046 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,240 Speaker 1: Like do you know what happened to my grandpa? 1047 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 3: Like it's fucked up. 1048 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,839 Speaker 1: It's fucked I mean it's good that like this has 1049 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,400 Speaker 1: turned a corner and people are talking about this. I 1050 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,320 Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like we should give those people 1051 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,080 Speaker 1: that island. Maybe I don't know what to do. It's probably, yeah, 1052 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: I mean hard to live on. But it was always 1053 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:55,240 Speaker 1: legally theirs. 1054 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, like that's the even the like like I don't 1055 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 4: have a ton of repet for. 1056 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:02,839 Speaker 3: The concept of. 1057 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:07,759 Speaker 1: I'm not a property rights yeah uh yeah, but they 1058 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:09,240 Speaker 1: it was literally theirs. 1059 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,440 Speaker 3: They literally bought. 1060 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,600 Speaker 1: It, like they purchased it with money with your currency 1061 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,080 Speaker 1: and owned it. And then you were like, now we'll 1062 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,000 Speaker 1: give it to this these guys. So this doctor who 1063 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,400 Speaker 1: locks people up can buy it because he's friends with 1064 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:29,440 Speaker 1: our fucking dog shit ass governor. Anyway, cool stuff. Uh yeah, 1065 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,759 Speaker 1: So that is the story of Malaga Island. It's you know, 1066 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,000 Speaker 1: tail ends for a while, but the war on vagrancy continues. 1067 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,080 Speaker 1: The laws pioneered in Tennessee and Massachusetts spread over the land, 1068 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,600 Speaker 1: and soon enough places like California and Florida had their 1069 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,960 Speaker 1: own vagrancy laws. In California, the state declared everyone from 1070 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: wanderers and willfully unemployed people to prostitutes and the lewde 1071 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,759 Speaker 1: guilty of vagrancy. The way the laws were written gave 1072 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,480 Speaker 1: police total power todaye who actually fit the definition of vagrant, 1073 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: and whether or not to take them into custody. This 1074 00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,799 Speaker 1: power was used primarily on non white people, but it 1075 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 1: was also used on other folks who were disliked by 1076 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,919 Speaker 1: the state, including communists. For example, in nineteen forty nine 1077 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:19,800 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, Isidore Edelman, a Russian born communist soapbox speaker, 1078 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,760 Speaker 1: was arrested by the LAPD as he spoke in Pershing 1079 00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,760 Speaker 1: Square Time magazine Rights. It was Edelman's strident and offensive 1080 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,680 Speaker 1: speeches that caught the attention of the police. His politics 1081 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 1: were just too inflammatory for the early Cold War. Twenty 1082 00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,520 Speaker 1: years later, in Jacksonville, Florida, Margaret Lorraine Papa Cristo was 1083 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,399 Speaker 1: arrested while out with her friend, another young blonde woman 1084 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,120 Speaker 1: and their dates to black men. Papa Cristo was arrested 1085 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,800 Speaker 1: under a Jacksonville law that made twenty kinds of vagrancy illegal. 1086 00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,440 Speaker 1: Time notes that this included rogues and vagabonds or dissolute 1087 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: persons who go about begging, Persons who used juggling or 1088 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:58,880 Speaker 1: unlawful games or plays, common drunkards, common railers and brawlers. 1089 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 1: Persons wandering are strolling about from place to place without 1090 00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:07,359 Speaker 1: any lawful purpose or object, habitual loafers, disorderly persons. How 1091 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 1: often juggling is in these especially since Yeah, one of 1092 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,400 Speaker 1: my favorite movies is fucking Hot Fuzz, which is about 1093 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,600 Speaker 1: a town whose hatred of I think it starts with 1094 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: like Roma traveling through town, but of like homeless people 1095 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: of like you know, folks like travelers kind of going 1096 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,480 Speaker 1: through and setting up camps and stuff. Briefly leads them 1097 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 1: to like mass murder, like I build a fascist death 1098 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,640 Speaker 1: state where they kill anyone who doesn't abide by the 1099 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 1: local laws. It's a pretty based movie, but like the 1100 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,160 Speaker 1: old people in it who are like creating this death 1101 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,040 Speaker 1: state are like one of the things they complain about 1102 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: is the jugglers, right, like, who all get murdered by 1103 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,240 Speaker 1: their their junta. Pretty cool stuff. Good movie. Watch Hot Fuzz. 1104 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,320 Speaker 1: It's about all this actually in a lot of ways. 1105 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, Papa Christo. One of the things I found 1106 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,240 Speaker 1: interesting was that she and her friends were found guilty 1107 00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,760 Speaker 1: of vagrancy for these acific modern crime of what was 1108 00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,800 Speaker 1: called prowling by auto, which is I think just like 1109 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,000 Speaker 1: hell yeah. Basically the crime was like she and her 1110 00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,200 Speaker 1: friend were white and they were dating black eyes and 1111 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: they were driving around like so that we got a 1112 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:14,080 Speaker 1: crackdown on that. 1113 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not gonna fly. 1114 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,880 Speaker 4: The kinds of laws that make me angriest are laws 1115 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,760 Speaker 4: that are well racist laws are the mostest, the most angry. 1116 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,000 Speaker 4: But laws that are just like literally victimless crimes. There 1117 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,320 Speaker 4: are laws that like might possibly lead to situations where 1118 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,080 Speaker 4: other crimes might be more likely or whatever, like yeah, 1119 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,480 Speaker 4: like no cruisy, like you can't just drive around or whatever. 1120 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,240 Speaker 1: This is not you know, the cruising law, the anti 1121 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,720 Speaker 1: vagrant law. When you kind of look at the civil 1122 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: rights movement about like the end of like Jim Crow, 1123 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,160 Speaker 1: and shit, these are not examples of Jim Crow, right, 1124 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,640 Speaker 1: This anti vagrancy law is not a Jim Crow law. 1125 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 1: Doesn't specify any race, but it gives the police to 1126 00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,480 Speaker 1: do whatever they want with someone they think is a vagrant. 1127 00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,040 Speaker 1: And the cops happen to feel that anytime they see 1128 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: a black person right likes. That's how it works. You know, 1129 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,120 Speaker 1: these are racial laws. They're just a little stealthier than 1130 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,320 Speaker 1: you know. Jim Crow, James Crow, as his friends know him, 1131 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,400 Speaker 1: who are bad people? I don't know. I don't know 1132 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,960 Speaker 1: why what I was going whatever, anyway, let's continue. So 1133 00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to continue with a quote from that Time 1134 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,560 Speaker 1: magazine article talking about vagrancy laws. Between Aedelman's arrest and 1135 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,080 Speaker 1: Papa Cristo's twenty years later, literally millions of people shared 1136 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,440 Speaker 1: their vagrancy fates. Some of those arrested comported with the 1137 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,040 Speaker 1: usual image of the vagrant. Sam Thompson, for example, was 1138 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:42,240 Speaker 1: an underemployed handyman and alcoholic arrested some fifty five times 1139 00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,520 Speaker 1: in Louisville, Kentucky in the nineteen fifties, but many, like 1140 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,200 Speaker 1: Adelman and Papa Cristo, are more surprising. The police arrested 1141 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 1: for loitering the Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth, co founder with Martin 1142 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: Luther King, junior of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference when 1143 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,720 Speaker 1: he spoke briefly with colleagues and a Birmingham Street corner 1144 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,760 Speaker 1: during a nineteen sixty two department store boycott. It was 1145 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,400 Speaker 1: vagrancy the police used when they could not get to 1146 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Lane law students Stephen Wainwright to cooperate with a murder 1147 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 1: investigation in New Orleans' French Quarter in nineteen sixty four. 1148 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,320 Speaker 1: It was vagrancy as well, that justified the nineteen sixty 1149 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,400 Speaker 1: six arrest of Marsha of Martin Hichhorn, a young cross 1150 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,920 Speaker 1: dressing hairstylist, arrested in his hotel room in Manhattan wearing 1151 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,080 Speaker 1: only a half slip in Brazier. Police turned to vagrancy 1152 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven when they arrested Joy Kelly in 1153 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,960 Speaker 1: the crash pad she had rented for herself and her 1154 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Hippi friends in Charlotte, North Carolina, and they used it 1155 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,040 Speaker 1: again when they mistook Dorothy Anne Kirkwood for a prostitute 1156 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:36,920 Speaker 1: when she was on her way to meet her boyfriend 1157 01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,360 Speaker 1: on Memphis famous Beale Street in nineteen sixty eight. These 1158 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 1: and other vagrancy suspects were white and black, male and female, 1159 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,520 Speaker 1: straight and gay, urban and rural, southern, northern, Western, and Midwestern. 1160 01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,120 Speaker 1: They had money or needed it to fight authority or 1161 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 1: tried to comply with it. They were arrested on public 1162 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,960 Speaker 1: streets and in their own homes as locals or strangers 1163 01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,280 Speaker 1: for political protests or seeming like a murderer for their race, 1164 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,000 Speaker 1: their sexuality, their poverty, or their lifestyle. 1165 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:12,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, fucked up. The state doesn't like. Yeah, yep, 1166 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:14,680 Speaker 4: the state doesn't like when people live outside. It's logic 1167 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,400 Speaker 4: it does not. And cops, you know, are when you 1168 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 4: just kind of give them the power to do what 1169 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,800 Speaker 4: they want against the people who they think are doing wrong, 1170 01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 4: they will wind up, you know, enforcing the kind of 1171 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 4: laws that the governor of Maine, you know, would have 1172 01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,960 Speaker 4: thought were good. You know, you don't have to like 1173 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,880 Speaker 4: write out who they should do violence to, who they 1174 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,480 Speaker 4: should stomp out. You know, they'll get to it on 1175 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,959 Speaker 4: their own. And you know, it was one of those 1176 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 4: things because of how all pervasive these vagrancy laws were. 1177 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,479 Speaker 4: And one of the things that paragraph I read makes 1178 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,360 Speaker 4: me think about is there's a song I quite like, 1179 01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,880 Speaker 4: back back from the era before country music was taken 1180 01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,400 Speaker 4: over by boot liquors by Chris Christofferson called the law 1181 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,320 Speaker 4: is for protection of the people. And it starts with 1182 01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,040 Speaker 4: Billy Barton, a drunk guy, you know, stumbling around the sidewalk, 1183 01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,040 Speaker 4: and the bunch of police cars come screaming to the 1184 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,920 Speaker 4: rescue and haul old Billy Barton off to jail. And 1185 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,400 Speaker 4: then there's a hippie dude walking through town and the 1186 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,080 Speaker 4: cops pull him over and like beat him up and 1187 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,840 Speaker 4: shave his hair, and you know, like this goes on. 1188 01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,440 Speaker 4: Like the refrain is because the law is for protection 1189 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,320 Speaker 4: of the people, rules or rules, and anyone can see, 1190 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,040 Speaker 4: you know, we don't need no drunks like Billy Dalton 1191 01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,959 Speaker 4: scaring decent folks like you and me. And the song 1192 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,280 Speaker 4: kind of builds to you know, these lines here, So 1193 01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,400 Speaker 4: thank your lucky stars, you've got protection. Walk the lion 1194 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 4: and never mind the cost, and don't wonder who them 1195 01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,600 Speaker 4: lawmen was protecting when they nailed the Savior to the cross. 1196 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,000 Speaker 1: Because the laws for protection of the people, rules are rules, 1197 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,520 Speaker 1: and any fool can see we don't need no riddle 1198 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:57,640 Speaker 1: speaking prophets scaring decent folk like you and me. Chris Kristofferson, 1199 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:04,400 Speaker 1: pretty based guy. Oh yeah yeah, because of sort of 1200 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,240 Speaker 1: how universal these laws were and how universally they were 1201 01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,440 Speaker 1: applied to people on the margins. It became, you know, 1202 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,720 Speaker 1: wrote for folks who lived you know, in the margins 1203 01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,680 Speaker 1: of you know, kind of white society to warn their 1204 01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,160 Speaker 1: children about these laws. Working class immigrant families would tell 1205 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,320 Speaker 1: their kids like, do not leave home without You have 1206 01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,520 Speaker 1: to have money on you at all times. You can't 1207 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,800 Speaker 1: spend it, like you have to have money because if 1208 01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,439 Speaker 1: the police full you over, you have to be able 1209 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,320 Speaker 1: to prove that you have money. You know that, otherwise 1210 01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,160 Speaker 1: you can't exist in public. Right. There were early home 1211 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,080 Speaker 1: what were called homo file organizations, which are like the 1212 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:43,320 Speaker 1: first pro gay organizations, right, that would educate you know, 1213 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,000 Speaker 1: their members who were young, gay, lesbian, trans people about 1214 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,960 Speaker 1: lewd vagrancy arrests and that the way to avoid them 1215 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,920 Speaker 1: was quote where at least three items of clothing of 1216 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,920 Speaker 1: your own sex, otherwise like you would get in trouble. 1217 01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,320 Speaker 1: Black newspapers would tell you know, people that like, yeah, 1218 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,800 Speaker 1: you like vagrancy arrests, Like here's how to avoid doing them, 1219 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,120 Speaker 1: because like if you if you piss off the cops 1220 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,160 Speaker 1: or just exist in a way that pisses off the cops, 1221 01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,760 Speaker 1: Like this is what's going to happen to you. Civil 1222 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,080 Speaker 1: rights organizations would publish like vagrancy forms that you could 1223 01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,480 Speaker 1: get like filled out, that would basically be a thing 1224 01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,120 Speaker 1: you carry it around that looked official, that would say 1225 01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,960 Speaker 1: you were a respected member of the community. And this 1226 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:30,120 Speaker 1: kind of persisted until, Yeah, the night, you know, nineteen 1227 01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,480 Speaker 1: forty nine is when this guy Aedelman is arrested and 1228 01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,680 Speaker 1: he he sues and stuff, and he doesn't win his case. 1229 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,360 Speaker 1: But over the next twenty or so years until the 1230 01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:44,120 Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies, reformers and activists repeatedly kind of bring 1231 01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: cases against these vagrancy laws. And in the early nineteen seventies, 1232 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,880 Speaker 1: seventy one and seventy two, there are three cases, including 1233 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,800 Speaker 1: Papa Cristo's, that eventually make their way to the Supreme Court, 1234 01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:01,080 Speaker 1: who announces that vagrancy, loitering and suspicious persons person's laws unconstitutional. 1235 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,120 Speaker 1: So that's kind of where we've been living since nineteen 1236 01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,680 Speaker 1: seventy two. Is this world where these laws that were 1237 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,520 Speaker 1: used to give the police kind of ultimate power to 1238 01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,640 Speaker 1: do violence against anyone that didn't fit in, you know, 1239 01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,920 Speaker 1: we're not constitutional. And now we are seeing them start 1240 01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,160 Speaker 1: to return the authoritarians of our day, who are liberal 1241 01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,280 Speaker 1: as often as they are conservative, are poking at the edges, 1242 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,520 Speaker 1: seeing what they can get away from, seeing what they 1243 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,680 Speaker 1: can reinstitute, because, as we all know, Margaret, the law 1244 01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,040 Speaker 1: is for protection of the people. 1245 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:37,120 Speaker 4: This is the quote that I come back to you 1246 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,280 Speaker 4: all the time as an anatole friends, quote, the law 1247 01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,480 Speaker 4: and its majestic equality forbids rich and poor alike to 1248 01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,840 Speaker 4: sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to 1249 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,880 Speaker 4: steal their bread. Yep, you know, it's just like, oh, well, 1250 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,320 Speaker 4: no one's allowed to be homeless, rich people in poor people. 1251 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's. 1252 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,440 Speaker 1: It's cool. It's the same, It's I mean, it's it's different, 1253 01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,560 Speaker 1: but it's a similar logic. We've got this law that 1254 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,080 Speaker 1: the liberals are trying to pass in Portland to criminalize 1255 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:10,120 Speaker 1: what they call like domestic terrorist organizing, which is so 1256 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,520 Speaker 1: ill defined that basically, if like anyone ever arms themselves 1257 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,920 Speaker 1: or acts in self defense as part of a protest, 1258 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,760 Speaker 1: that can be seen as like a terrorist paramilitary organization. 1259 01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:22,160 Speaker 1: And they're like, well, this is because of all the 1260 01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,440 Speaker 1: right wing terrorism that we have a huge problem with 1261 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,800 Speaker 1: in Oregon. And it's like, yeah, but you're just handing 1262 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,720 Speaker 1: the cops a thing they can use against anyone they 1263 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,080 Speaker 1: don't like, and who don't the cops like. Anyone who 1264 01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,360 Speaker 1: supports that law is an idiot, and if your legislator does, 1265 01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,240 Speaker 1: you should throw raw eggs at them, is my opinion, 1266 01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:43,440 Speaker 1: my legal opinion on the First Amendment, raw eggs. I 1267 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,120 Speaker 1: don't like these people. I don't like any of this. 1268 01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm angry. Fuck fucket. 1269 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:54,800 Speaker 3: Anyway. 1270 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 1: You know what's cool is that it turns out the 1271 01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,080 Speaker 1: head of intelligence for the Capitol Police was feeding information 1272 01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,720 Speaker 1: to the Proud Boys before January sixth. It's good that 1273 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:09,880 Speaker 1: the cops could be trusted. I love our men in 1274 01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 1: law enforcement supporting the vagrancy laws that were used to 1275 01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:19,520 Speaker 1: institute a police state only for certain people for most 1276 01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,360 Speaker 1: of the time that my parents were alive or are 1277 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,640 Speaker 1: a love have been alive, whatever, my grandparents whole lives, 1278 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:31,040 Speaker 1: all sorts of cool shit. I don't know. I'm very 1279 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,160 Speaker 1: angry now, Margaret. I don't know what to do. I'm 1280 01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:34,760 Speaker 1: gonna go or something. 1281 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. No, it's just bad. And it still happens in 1282 01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,240 Speaker 4: a lot of different ways, you know, like and obviously 1283 01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,400 Speaker 4: it's getting worse again. I don't know. And none of 1284 01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,280 Speaker 4: it makes sense. I mean, it only makes sense within 1285 01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:51,240 Speaker 4: a certain logic, but it doesn't make any sense on 1286 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:52,880 Speaker 4: like a moral level or anything like that. 1287 01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:58,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, throwing eggs at state legislators make sense to me. 1288 01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,360 Speaker 1: You know, providing aid and sucker to people who are 1289 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:08,840 Speaker 1: living you know, outside of you know what, Yeah, assholes 1290 01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,800 Speaker 1: are comfortable with makes sense to me. Yeah, listening to 1291 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,120 Speaker 1: Chris Christofferson makes sense to me. Also, check out that 1292 01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:19,160 Speaker 1: that State radio song about Benjamin Darling. You know, that's 1293 01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,960 Speaker 1: a that's a good one, and that's I also think, 1294 01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,200 Speaker 1: like when we think about what the antidote to this 1295 01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,880 Speaker 1: stuff is, it is the kind of radical compassion that 1296 01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:33,840 Speaker 1: Darling exemplified when he chose to save a person just 1297 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,640 Speaker 1: because they were a person, regardless of the wrong that 1298 01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:38,680 Speaker 1: had been done to him. Which is probably why I 1299 01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,639 Speaker 1: shouldn't talk so much about throwing eggs at people who 1300 01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:44,120 Speaker 1: annoy me, because Benjamin Darling wouldn't do that. But you 1301 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,240 Speaker 1: know whatever, I mean, he than me. Maybe he wouldn't. 1302 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,400 Speaker 1: Maybe he would have done that. I shouldn't talk about 1303 01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:51,519 Speaker 1: the other things that I talk about sometimes when I 1304 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:56,080 Speaker 1: get because Benjamin Darling wouldn't have done that, Benjamin Darling. 1305 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,120 Speaker 1: Let's let's all remember that there was a cool dude 1306 01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,799 Speaker 1: named Benjamin Darling who rocked. 1307 01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:02,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, hell yeah. 1308 01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, Margaret, you got anything to plug? 1309 01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,000 Speaker 4: Well, if you like cool people who rocked, let me 1310 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,200 Speaker 4: tell you about cool people, the cool stuff where we 1311 01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:17,680 Speaker 4: cover things about like cool people who threw rocks at fascists. Yeah, 1312 01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:20,360 Speaker 4: like a recent episode, I've literally no idea when this 1313 01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,800 Speaker 4: comes out. A recent episode about the Cable story. Next 1314 01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,160 Speaker 4: week the Battle for Cable Street great in it might 1315 01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,000 Speaker 4: be the same week. Who knows that. You can listen 1316 01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:31,559 Speaker 4: to my podcast talking about it, and it actually gets 1317 01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,840 Speaker 4: into a bunch of this really similar stuff about how 1318 01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:38,719 Speaker 4: after the Fascist Party was defeated in by working class 1319 01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:43,120 Speaker 4: people fighting them, the state passed a law saying, Okay, 1320 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,320 Speaker 4: no one's allowed to march in uniform anymore. And it 1321 01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,280 Speaker 4: was directed against the fascists, and it was used primarily 1322 01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,919 Speaker 4: against the left and against anti colonial movements. 1323 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's another thing, ever, changes There's another thought 1324 01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,679 Speaker 1: I have based on something you told me about that story, 1325 01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,000 Speaker 1: which was that when the fascists came to Cable Street 1326 01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,600 Speaker 1: to attack the Jews. One of the reasons why the 1327 01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:10,120 Speaker 1: anti fascist one is because all of the Irish showed up, 1328 01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,280 Speaker 1: and the Irish showed up because when they had been 1329 01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,559 Speaker 1: having a strike earlier and been cracked down on by 1330 01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,439 Speaker 1: the state, the Jewish community took their children into their 1331 01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:19,559 Speaker 1: houses to take care of them during the strike, like 1332 01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,280 Speaker 1: twenty years earlier. And so when the Irish heard that 1333 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,000 Speaker 1: there were fascists coming around to threaten the folks who 1334 01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,080 Speaker 1: had helped raise them, they were like, well, let's go 1335 01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,600 Speaker 1: fuck some shit up and maybe, you know, it's a 1336 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:35,640 Speaker 1: lesson again, back to Benjamin Darling of the sometimes unpredictable 1337 01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,000 Speaker 1: value of radical compassion. 1338 01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:44,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. Yeah, So that's my main plug. Cool people, 1339 01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,840 Speaker 4: the cool stuff every Monday and Wednesday, and cool Zone 1340 01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:51,439 Speaker 4: Media and also I Kickstarting or have finished Kickstarting or 1341 01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,160 Speaker 4: whatever tabletop role playing game called panumber City that gets 1342 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,400 Speaker 4: into if you want to play this kind of thing, 1343 01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,680 Speaker 4: this life, this living outside the system, et cetera, is 1344 01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:02,720 Speaker 4: a really good game for you. 1345 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:04,920 Speaker 3: And that's what I got. 1346 01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:11,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's uh, let's all check out that spend 1347 01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:15,400 Speaker 1: some time in Panumbra City before it is it is 1348 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,840 Speaker 1: attacked by whatever that governor's name of Maine, you know, 1349 01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:20,840 Speaker 1: or maybe make him your bad guy if you want 1350 01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,639 Speaker 1: to run a campaign governor placed it. You know there's 1351 01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,200 Speaker 1: a there's a fucking monster name for you right there. 1352 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I might do that. 1353 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:34,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's burn him in effigy in our role playing games. Well, 1354 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,880 Speaker 1: you can listen to this podcast and Margaret's podcast, and 1355 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:41,360 Speaker 1: a variety of other excellent podcasts like Hood Politics by 1356 01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:45,400 Speaker 1: our friend prop for without ads. If you pay a 1357 01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:50,080 Speaker 1: small amount of money by getting on Apple and signing 1358 01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,960 Speaker 1: up for cooler Zone Media, where you'll get all of 1359 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,280 Speaker 1: our stuff ad free cooler Zone Media on Apple. There 1360 01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,360 Speaker 1: will be an Android version soon. We are working on it. 1361 01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,080 Speaker 1: Sophie's working on it. I'm doing nothing at all. I 1362 01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,400 Speaker 1: don't care about it. You Android users. I'm an Android user, 1363 01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:07,720 Speaker 1: but I don't care about you. Sophie does, and she 1364 01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:08,880 Speaker 1: is taking care of it. 1365 01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:09,799 Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm. 1366 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,479 Speaker 1: Also I didn't care about the Apple people. Sophie did 1367 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,400 Speaker 1: all the work on that too, So thank you, thank 1368 01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:15,080 Speaker 1: you so much. 1369 01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:20,720 Speaker 2: And our friend, our friend Jack and Ran is a 1370 01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:21,960 Speaker 2: new show on cool Zone Media. 1371 01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:22,400 Speaker 4: Robert. 1372 01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:22,960 Speaker 2: What's it called? 1373 01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:23,519 Speaker 3: He does? 1374 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,479 Speaker 1: He does? It's called sad Oligarch, and it's about all 1375 01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,599 Speaker 1: those Russian oligarchs who strangely died the exact same way 1376 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:34,559 Speaker 1: by falling out of windows at high heights. Anyway, check 1377 01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:39,480 Speaker 1: all that out. Cooler Zone Media, Apple Whatever, Bye. 1378 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,040 Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 1379 01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,680 Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia 1380 01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,040 Speaker 2: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1381 01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,520 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.