1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,239
Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Wednesday, June twenty fifth, and

6
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. Did he want

7
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 2: to continues explosive day in court today, very unexpected. The

8
00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 2: charges are up for question and there's a lot of

9
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 2: confusion about it. So at last we have Jarrett Farantino

10
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 2: back attorney. He's going to explain all the ins and

11
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,760
Speaker 2: outs about it. Also, journalists Connor Powell will be joining

12
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,559
Speaker 2: us to unpack the new details in the Idaho murders.

13
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,519
Speaker 2: And of course he also has been working on this

14
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 2: anti sex trafficking organization and that has a very dark secret.

15
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,920
Speaker 2: So he's going to fill us in all those details.

16
00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,240
Speaker 2: But first body, let's get right into Diddy. Thank you, Stephanie.

17
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,840
Speaker 3: Okay, So today was the charging conference, and every trial

18
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 3: has a charging conference. And what a charging conference is.

19
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 3: It's like a meeting hearing between the judge and the

20
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 3: attorneys for both sides. And they meet and they come

21
00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 3: up with this charging document. It's basically a set of

22
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 3: instructions for the jury that explains each charge and what

23
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 3: has to be met. Well, guess what the charges have changed?

24
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 3: And it's a mess and they're you know, the news

25
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 3: is all over the place on it. So here to

26
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 3: explain it all is former homicide prosecutor Jarrett Farantino. Jarrett

27
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 3: is a veteran trial attorney who has handled some of

28
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania's most high profile murder cases. He's now a legal

29
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 3: analyst and true crime expert, and he's also the co

30
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 3: host of a YouTube series called Prime Time Crime and

31
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 3: the host of podcast True Crime Boss.

32
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 2: Jarrett.

33
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us. Can you explain

34
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 3: the charges and what the changes are? Because everybody's kind

35
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 3: of confused.

36
00:01:55,240 --> 00:02:00,240
Speaker 4: I'm going to try. So let's let's say this right

37
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 4: out the gate. No charges have been dropped. The theories

38
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 4: in the allegations against him of arson and kidnapping as

39
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 4: predicate offenses in the Rico charge have been pulled by

40
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,080
Speaker 4: the government. Basically, here's the thing did He is accused

41
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,840
Speaker 4: of running a corrupt organization his enterprise, and the government

42
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 4: is required to prove that he committed at least two

43
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 4: criminal predicate acts and further into that business. Two of

44
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 4: the acts would have been arson and kidnapping along with

45
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:39,239
Speaker 4: transportation of escorts for seg witness tampering, bribery. They pulled

46
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,959
Speaker 4: those two charges. That's what happened today, those two predicate offenses.

47
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 4: It's a big deal. But he's still facing the same charges.

48
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 3: It's a huge deal because like with kid Cutty, we

49
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,640
Speaker 3: had the arson we think or we thought in the

50
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 3: kidnapping when he put his assistant in the room and

51
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,120
Speaker 3: had to do light detector for like three days, that's kidnapping.

52
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 3: So those predicate acts for Rico. Again, they only need

53
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 3: two predicate acts to prove Rico, right, So now the

54
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,919
Speaker 3: scope of these charges it's much smaller. So the things

55
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 3: that they're accusing him under Rico have to be really tight, right,

56
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 3: like the evidence in order to get too predicate, you know,

57
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,519
Speaker 3: charges accurate. The evidence again on those cases have or

58
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 3: those charges have to be so good, right.

59
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 4: Well they do, and you said it it's the arson

60
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 4: of kid Cutty's car, and it's the kidnapping of his assistant.

61
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,239
Speaker 4: Capricorn Clark cat get to kid Cutty's house. So here's

62
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 4: the thing. Those were two explosive and major issues. Now

63
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 4: they're off the table. The government saying, oh, we were

64
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 4: streamlining our theory, MA get it easy for the jury.

65
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 4: If I'm ditty, I feel pretty good. I'm like, wait

66
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 4: a minute, two of the biggest blemishes against me are

67
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 4: not going to be considered in support of a Rico charge.

68
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 4: It's a big deal.

69
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 3: It's a huge And like this whole time we've been

70
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 3: talking about Diddy, I've been repeating over and over again,

71
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 3: they only need two predicate acts for Rico, and I

72
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,520
Speaker 3: think they've got it with the arson and kidnapping. And

73
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 3: now we're here, we are the day before closing arguments,

74
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 3: and the two ones that I thought was kind of

75
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 3: a slam dunk are gone.

76
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 2: And what does that mean? So if there's you know,

77
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 2: there's articles that we've been reading and the research that

78
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,960
Speaker 2: we've been doing. They keep using the word streamlined, right,

79
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,040
Speaker 2: So streamlined they're streamlining things for the jurors. Does that

80
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 2: streamlining make it less likely that he's going to do time? Like,

81
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,280
Speaker 2: is this like all falling apart suddenly and he might

82
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:26,799
Speaker 2: get off?

83
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 4: Streamlining sounds like an excuse to me. It's like I'm

84
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 4: streamlining by case by removing two of the predicated offenses.

85
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 4: I spent hours and days proving. That's not streamlining, right,

86
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 4: that's removing cases. That's removing theories you don't think you

87
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 4: sufficiently proved. But at the same time, they're saying, we're

88
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,120
Speaker 4: focusing our jury on the transportation charges, on the witness

89
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 4: tampering charges, on the bribery charges. If we believe so

90
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 4: strongly we've proven them, we're pulling these other predicate offenses

91
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 4: off the table. That's what the government saying. I'm sorry,

92
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 4: don't buy it.

93
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:01,600
Speaker 5: Eleven.

94
00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,640
Speaker 4: It's an eleventh hour decision. I would have left it on.

95
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 4: Who's to say there are jurors in there that don't

96
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 4: believe those predicate offenses were committed in support of Rico.

97
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 6: But one question for you, Jared, if there was potentially,

98
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 6: if those were the weakest links, could that have made

99
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,040
Speaker 6: the jury hang up on the entire Rico charges if

100
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,040
Speaker 6: they weren't in agreement.

101
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 4: I think the jury is going to be smart enough

102
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,839
Speaker 4: to break those charges down independently. To me, when I

103
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,160
Speaker 4: don't see them there and I'm told half of Capricorn

104
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 4: Clark's testimony, half of kid Cutting's testimony is not to

105
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 4: be considered. I start to wonder, why should you believe

106
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,400
Speaker 4: anything of that? They said, so, yes, I think the

107
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 4: government's thinking along the line, maybe we get rid of

108
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 4: these and it builds our credibility on the other cases.

109
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,719
Speaker 4: To me, it's a huge, huge missing component of the case.

110
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,159
Speaker 2: Now And did you think that one week ago? Like,

111
00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 2: has your feeling changed in the last couple of days

112
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 2: because you know, even just the idea that Diddy is

113
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 2: not going to be giving, you know, any witnesses for

114
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,839
Speaker 2: his side of the story or not taking the stand.

115
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 2: I know that's pretty customary. Are you surprised by any

116
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 2: of this or is this kind of how it goes?

117
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,680
Speaker 4: Well, it's a strategy and his you know, we keep

118
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 4: hearing Didty's team didn't put up a defense? Really, they

119
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 4: mounted a hell of a defense and their cross examinations

120
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,599
Speaker 4: of Cassie and Jane and talking about their motive, intent,

121
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 4: and bias, whether or not they were living this lifestyle consensually.

122
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 4: The defense did a good job of establishing their theory.

123
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 4: During the prosecution's case of chief, my opinion has changed

124
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,200
Speaker 4: a little bit, though I felt much more strongly about

125
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 4: the prosecution as time has gone on. I think Ditty's

126
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,279
Speaker 4: team did a nice job of raising doubt. Is it

127
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:46,920
Speaker 4: going to be enough?

128
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,560
Speaker 5: Who knows?

129
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 2: Wow? Wow, So it is possible that he is going.

130
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 4: To walk, well, I don't know that it's what It's

131
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 4: not necessarily likely. I mean, the Feds have a ninety

132
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 4: eight percent conviction rate, as they say, I think he's

133
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 4: going to to be convicted on the transportation charges under

134
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 4: the Man Act. But when you're looking at a rico charge,

135
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,880
Speaker 4: which carries decades in prison versus the lesser charges, I

136
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 4: could see a likelihood of conviction there. It's just not

137
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 4: clear at this point what exactly is going to happen.

138
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,119
Speaker 4: But it's definitely a closer game than people thought.

139
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 2: I would agree. I'm kind of flabbergasted. We were doing

140
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 2: like holes amongst ourselves and in the studio, and you know,

141
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 2: up until probably this week, it seemed pretty oh, did

142
00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 2: he's going to be away forever? He's never going to

143
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 2: see the light of day. And honestly, I think I

144
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 2: think yesterday I was the only one that thought maybe

145
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 2: he would be seeing an extensive amount of jail time,

146
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 2: And you know, today I feel like I'm for sure

147
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 2: the only one I'm kind of surprised at the turn

148
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 2: of events, and I guess that's why you're so good

149
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 2: at what you do. Having an important lawyer who really

150
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 2: knows how to defend their clients matters.

151
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 6: Jared talking about as Stephanie was saying, the importance of lawyering.

152
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 6: Do you think going in that the defense's side had

153
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,440
Speaker 6: any thought of, hey, we might just not put up

154
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 6: any witnesses or do you think that evolved over the

155
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 6: course of the trial.

156
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,360
Speaker 4: Well, I think they really they had to gauge how

157
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 4: well and what the judge allowed them to do in

158
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 4: cross examination, and as I said, their crosses were extensive.

159
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,560
Speaker 4: You have to realize, too, Diddy was Diddy's reputation, and

160
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 4: these charges were all we read about for months and

161
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 4: months and months. The prosecution puts their case on and

162
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,560
Speaker 4: everybody's realizing this person they once believed was this phenomenal

163
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 4: entertainer is a pretty bad guy. Now his lawyers are saying, Okay,

164
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,719
Speaker 4: we accept the fact that maybe he didn't live the

165
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,199
Speaker 4: life you live or find acceptable, but what are the motives, intent,

166
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,840
Speaker 4: and biases of these witnesses? And all of a sudden,

167
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 4: when assessed against the law, people are saying, wow, you know,

168
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 4: those are good points. He is a bad guy. But

169
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 4: is this a RICO case? Is it a racketeering operation?

170
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 4: That's the most important question. And I'm going to be

171
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:01,960
Speaker 4: posed to the jury.

172
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 3: And they just took two of what I thought was

173
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 3: the strongest testimony, with the arson and kidnapping. I thought

174
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,559
Speaker 3: that was really strong personally. Now those aren't even on

175
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,040
Speaker 3: the table anymore. It seems weird. It seems counterproductive to

176
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 3: remove those and let them only consider a like two

177
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 3: other predicate acts which I didn't think I personally didn't

178
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,240
Speaker 3: think was as strong. Well, maybe the transportation, but.

179
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, why are we looking at it, Like

180
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 2: what are we boiling this down to? So the Rico thing,

181
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, it appears might be a stretch, right, so

182
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 2: maybe there's a real crack in the armor on that one,

183
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,960
Speaker 2: which you know, this has been debated and discussed so

184
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,200
Speaker 2: many times, including here, about overcharging or undercharging. And it's

185
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,959
Speaker 2: not a domestic violence case, even though you know, it's

186
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400
Speaker 2: hard to see this video of what appears to be

187
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 2: domestic violence, et cetera. That's not what he's being charged for, right,

188
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,600
Speaker 2: So at this point, what can they prove in your opinion.

189
00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 4: Well, he's also being charged for compelling Cassie and Jane

190
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 4: to engage in sex through force, fraud, coercion, financial coercion,

191
00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 4: the release of that sex tape, threat making, So those

192
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,559
Speaker 4: things I believe they've also proven. So the question becomes

193
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,760
Speaker 4: now it's was this consensual or was it coerced? Who

194
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,960
Speaker 4: do you believe? Which side do you believe? Nobody's disputing

195
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 4: these freak offs happened. Is a question of were they

196
00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 4: voluntary or was this a lifestyle? Does that lifestyle rise

197
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 4: to a criminal organization or a series of crimes? That's

198
00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 4: really what the jury is going to have to weigh,

199
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,960
Speaker 4: and the prosecution's got to do a really good job

200
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 4: of defining why the arson and kidnapping may not be

201
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,520
Speaker 4: on the table at this point. What's really got to

202
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 4: be the focus in their assessment. And then that's what

203
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 4: I expect to see in the closing arguments.

204
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 2: I mean, it's pretty unfathomable. So we know, for example,

205
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 2: the cee Ann tape that we've all seen of you know,

206
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,600
Speaker 2: did he you know, beating up his ex girlfriend Cassie

207
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,200
Speaker 2: Ventura at that hotel at the elevator. We know that

208
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 2: a bribe was given. We also know that you know

209
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,679
Speaker 2: who I think is the hero of this trial Israel Flores,

210
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 2: who was a security guard there that witnessed that abuse

211
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,839
Speaker 2: but did not take the bribe, which is you know,

212
00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 2: all Mary could everybody else seemed to. We know one

213
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 2: hundred grand was paid for that. Does that matter or

214
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 2: is that also kind of not under a Rico charge

215
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 2: or is that it.

216
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 4: Is so the bribery is a component of a predicate

217
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,960
Speaker 4: offense for Rico. If I was summing this case up

218
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,560
Speaker 4: for the prosecution, I would do exactly what they did

219
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,719
Speaker 4: in the beginning. I play that tape and I would say,

220
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 4: if you believe this is consensual, then he's not guilty.

221
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,080
Speaker 4: If you believe this is coercion assault, then go to

222
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 4: the bribery for trying to bury that tape, then he's

223
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,960
Speaker 4: guilty of predicate acts and running a corrupt organization and

224
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,360
Speaker 4: transportation for sex, etcetera, etcetera.

225
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 2: You bring up such a good point last thing, and

226
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,480
Speaker 2: I just can you stay forever where I know we're

227
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,079
Speaker 2: losing this, but you know the reality of it is,

228
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,200
Speaker 2: you know that tape is such a big thing. I

229
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 2: think there might be fatigue at this point because it's

230
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 2: been what twenty nine days. We're going on a month

231
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,679
Speaker 2: of seeing tapes and videos and hearing about freak offs

232
00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 2: and x'es and texts, and you know, at some point

233
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 2: it loses its emotional prowess, or you don't, it doesn't

234
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 2: affect you as much if you're a jeror you know,

235
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,440
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just talking from a strategy perspective. You just

236
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 2: dropping the mic and showing that tape and just saying

237
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,800
Speaker 2: if you do or do not believe that up to

238
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 2: you and walking away.

239
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 6: Jared will be staying with us to unpack this a

240
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,080
Speaker 6: little more, and later we have journalist Connor Powell joining

241
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 6: us to talk about the Idaho college murder. Later, it's

242
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 6: Pride month and we have a really important story to share.

243
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 7: Don't forget to call.

244
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 6: Us eight to day through One Crime with your thoughts

245
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,359
Speaker 6: on tonight's stories True Crime.

246
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 2: Tonight Listen, all Things Diddy Continue. Today was a day

247
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 2: in court. The judges and attorneys all meant to discuss

248
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 2: kind of the charges and how to sort of equip

249
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 2: the jury with the right information so they know about

250
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 2: what they're up for in the coming days. And it

251
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,320
Speaker 2: was nothing short of explosive, so Thankfully we have attorney

252
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 2: Jared Farantino is back to kind of explain some of

253
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 2: this because it's been really messy and a little confusing,

254
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 2: and we have been following it closely. So Jarrett, thank

255
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 2: you so much for adding some insight to this because

256
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 2: we were all like super confused right before air because

257
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 2: it seems as though there's been misinformation out today and

258
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,040
Speaker 2: now this new information. So if you were to break

259
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,040
Speaker 2: it down in the you know, layman's terms, as you

260
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,040
Speaker 2: do so, well, it's rico right, that's the main thing,

261
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,200
Speaker 2: and then the predicates for that that are still up

262
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 2: for conversation remain transportation.

263
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 4: Transportation, witness, tampering, bribery, forced labor, and I believe some

264
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 4: drug offenses are still on the table under the drug.

265
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 3: We were wondering about the drug offenses. Okay, under this

266
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,840
Speaker 3: there is still a lot that from and they only

267
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,160
Speaker 3: need two right of those predicate acts to be basically

268
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,440
Speaker 3: proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But the arson and or

269
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 3: attempted arson and attempted kidnap being have been removed from

270
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 3: the charging document.

271
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,200
Speaker 4: That's correct, and that's basically the answers A through D

272
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 4: or all of the above. They have to choose from

273
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 4: at this point. But like you said, those two very salacious,

274
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,600
Speaker 4: high profile acts involving Kid Cutty are off the table

275
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:29,359
Speaker 4: for predicates.

276
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 2: Wow. I just found it so surprising.

277
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 6: What did you think of Kid Cutty's testimony because we

278
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 6: all kind of thought it seemed super compelling and also

279
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 6: why what reason would he have to make this story up?

280
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 4: Well, and the other thing I thought, I thought he

281
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 4: was fine, And I also think it was supported by

282
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 4: Capricorn Clark as well as the.

283
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,640
Speaker 2: Fact that corroborated Yeah.

284
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. And that's one of the things you

285
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 4: look at as a prosecutor who's putting together a case.

286
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 4: Are you taking a leap of faith with one particular

287
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 4: witness and can you butchers their test sestimony with other

288
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 4: witnesses or documentary evidence. The car was burned, there was

289
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 4: a black suv at his house around Christmas time in

290
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 4: twenty eleven, there was damage in a breaking in his house,

291
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,440
Speaker 4: all of which coincided with Capricorn Clark and Kid Cutty's testimony.

292
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,160
Speaker 4: So to me, there was this wrapping up of his

293
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 4: testimony support in that case, I would have moved forward

294
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 4: on those charges too.

295
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 2: I feel like very surprised.

296
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 3: That's why I'm kind of like boisterous about this.

297
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 2: Now we're all very little wild right now.

298
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, these specific charges, which again when I was citing

299
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 3: too predicate acts forco Arson was number one because of

300
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 3: Kid Cutty's testimony and Capricorn, you know, basically corroborating it.

301
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,280
Speaker 3: I found it very compelling, and if I'm a jury

302
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 3: member listening to it, I'm going in and though Arson

303
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 3: is the one thing that I'm digging into in the

304
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 3: jury room because I believed it. I thought it was.

305
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. I just am very confused.

306
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 2: Is there a.

307
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 4: Reason they would do this?

308
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,680
Speaker 2: Do they think the jury's going to be confused?

309
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 4: I think they. I think they feel like they haven't

310
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 4: met the burden with regard to those charges. That's part

311
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 4: of this, and certainly if they did, they would have

312
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 4: kept them. On the other thing, the jury's not going

313
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 4: to disregard it. Let's say they believed Kid Cuddy and

314
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 4: Capricorn Clark. The toothpaste doesn't go back in the tube.

315
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 4: At that point, you know, they've.

316
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 2: Heard these horrible things.

317
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 4: They believe these things. And again, when you wrap it

318
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 4: all together, it paints the picture that not only is

319
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 4: Anny a bad guy, he may very well be a

320
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,160
Speaker 4: criminal and a criminal who's part of a larger enterprise.

321
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 4: So to me, it factors into the cocktail of what

322
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,800
Speaker 4: they are going to consider. Even though it's not on

323
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 4: the page, I just would have left it on the page.

324
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 3: Right, Like, the totality of everything leads to this racketeering charge.

325
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 3: The totality of it all. And you're right, the toothpaste

326
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 3: doesn't go back in the tube. And they still have

327
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 3: their jury notes. I'm assuming I'm assuming they're taking those

328
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,120
Speaker 3: into the deliberation room.

329
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 4: I don't know, yes, And I can't imagine after twenty

330
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 4: nine days the testimony you're going to forget some of

331
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 4: those more salient points.

332
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 3: Well, it was such a big deal when it happened.

333
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 3: I mean we talked about it like it's like a

334
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 3: lot because it was such compelling testimony. And this the dog,

335
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 3: Remember there was the dog in the portion, right, I mean,

336
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 3: there was just so.

337
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 2: Much of it. I just I'm very surprised.

338
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 4: And what you can spend that much time on that

339
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 4: part of the case and not use it as a presidice.

340
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 4: That's a big question.

341
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,719
Speaker 3: As a juror, I'd be kind of like upset they

342
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,919
Speaker 3: wasted my time. I mean there was a couple of days.

343
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,840
Speaker 2: But also that could be strategy because you know, like

344
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 2: you both are saying, if the toothpaste doesn't get back

345
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,439
Speaker 2: in the genie doesn't get back in the bottle, or

346
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,479
Speaker 2: the toothpaste doesn't get back in the thing the tube,

347
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's still information that they can't necessarily erase.

348
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 2: I'm curious, like, even just right now, what is it

349
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 2: like in the beehive in these situations, because you've prosecuted

350
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 2: so many big cases. Are they on fire right now?

351
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 2: You know we've all seen like a few good men.

352
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm imagining them all like in a huddle, and its

353
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 2: high stakes and super stressful. Can't handle the drus, You

354
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 2: can't handle the truth. I can't seem to handle the

355
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 2: truth here because it's this is big stuff.

356
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 4: Well, the most boring day for me was always charging day.

357
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 4: I would always have a smarter second chair sitting next

358
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 4: to me, and they would take the wheel during charging

359
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 4: day because I like my eyes would glaze over and

360
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 4: I'm just getting ready to make my closing argument, my

361
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 4: big day in court. So the night before a closing argument,

362
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 4: you're just refining it you're basing. If there's things the

363
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 4: judge told you cannot be said, or there's directions that

364
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 4: have changed like that have happened today, you got to

365
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 4: make those adjustments to your closing. That's what I'd be

366
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 4: doing tonight in the war room with the folks I'd

367
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 4: spent months with preparing for this day.

368
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 3: It's funny that you mentioned that, because I was reading

369
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 3: an article about this today and it was reported that P.

370
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,440
Speaker 3: Diddy was just kind of like he had an earbud

371
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 3: in his ear and he was just kind of like

372
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 3: looking down, and that his kids that were sitting in

373
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 3: the hearing room were kind of like falling asleep. So,

374
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 3: I mean, for us, it's explosive, but apparently inside the

375
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 3: room that day or today, it was still boring.

376
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 2: A lot of journals us left midday because they were like,

377
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 2: this is just news too much, a snoozefest. Yeah, but

378
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: you know, let us know how it all shakes out.

379
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 2: But it ended up being kind of a late in

380
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 2: the day's shakeout, so it's still really interesting. What happens next?

381
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: What's your you know, what goes on tomorrow? What do

382
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 2: you think?

383
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,400
Speaker 4: Well, I'm very much looking forward to the closing arguments

384
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 4: in the case. You know, and as a prosecutor, you

385
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,000
Speaker 4: want to highlight your again, i'd pound in that video.

386
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 4: I make sure they see that, you know, primacy and recency.

387
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 4: What's the last thing you leave them seeing is that video.

388
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 4: It's going to be compelling. You got to take twenty

389
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 4: eight days on both sides, wrap them up. The defense

390
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 4: is going to attack the credibility of every witness like

391
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 4: they did in the trial, and that's it. And then

392
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 4: at that point it's in the jury's hands. You know,

393
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 4: the lawyer's lawyering is done, the judging is done. You

394
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 4: just sit back and all of a sudden, all these

395
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 4: lay people have to make the most important decision in

396
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 4: the world.

397
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:52,880
Speaker 7: Wow.

398
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 6: So, Jared, you earlier had mentioned witness tampering. What what

399
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:00,360
Speaker 6: witness did?

400
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 4: I hear that correctly, There's an allegation that even after

401
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 4: the arrest, he was attempting to contact witnesses and quell

402
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 4: their testimony. So anything that he did and the wake

403
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 4: of the charges, or once he knew the charges were pending,

404
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 4: and he contacted those witnesses and made any threat or

405
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 4: offer to pay them could be viewed as witness hampering.

406
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 4: So there's been some testimony about that.

407
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 2: And let's be honest, anybody who has testified against him

408
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: right now, they're in a very vulnerable spot because you know,

409
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: we can definitely all agree that, you know, did he

410
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: and the people around him have violent tendencies. So you know,

411
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 2: should he get off or you know, should he be

412
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: found innocent of these charges and is released, is there

413
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 2: a target on people's backs? Is that something that is

414
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: going to prevent witnesses from coming forward in the future.

415
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 4: Well, I mean that's a powerful point, but the reality

416
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 4: is the threat to those witnesses is greatest prior to

417
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 4: their testimony. Once Let's just say, in your scenario, he

418
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 4: walks out and kisses the ground, the last thing he's

419
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 4: going to want to do is talk to Cassie or

420
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 4: Capricorn's Park or anybody. So that's fair, but it's always look,

421
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 4: I bet witness is killed. I mean, it's always a

422
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 4: huge concern.

423
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 2: But much witness what you've had witnesses, Oh yeah.

424
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 4: In case I have, I've prosecuted cases where informants were

425
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 4: killed for being informants. It's sadly, it's it's, oh my god,

426
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:31,719
Speaker 4: something we have to deal with.

427
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 2: That's racketeering, and I guess that's the fear, and I

428
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 2: guess that's why this case is so troubling for us.

429
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 3: So I have a question, Jared. So I read that

430
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 3: the both prosecutors and the defense will need four hours

431
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: for closing arguments, in that the prosecutors are going to

432
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 3: do one tomorrow and that the defense is going to

433
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 3: do one on Thursday.

434
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Friday.

435
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 3: Does after the defense is done, does the prosecution get

436
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 3: a chance for a rebuttal close at all?

437
00:21:58,840 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 2: Do you know?

438
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 4: I belie leave they do, and I'm not one hundred

439
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 4: percent sure, and states you have the opportunity for rebuttal.

440
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 4: In Pennsylvania, we do not have the opportunity to. But

441
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 4: so where I've practiced, I've never had the occasion to

442
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 4: rebut a defense closing but we go last. That's why so, oh,

443
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 4: federal system, I'm not sure, But if you look at it.

444
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just nosy too. It's all I will say

445
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: this though, you know, and again this is just as

446
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: an outsider looking in, and I know a lot of

447
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: this is optics and a lot of this is strategy,

448
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: but it seems like there was such very powerful testimony

449
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: and you know, to end the whole thing after twenty

450
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: nine days on summary witnesses that might have been a

451
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: little flat for lack of a better word, but maybe

452
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: that's just customary. And again, you know, not being in

453
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: the room makes a big difference. So I'm just saying

454
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: this as an outsider kind of looking in. You know,

455
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: thirty days is a long time to hold the role

456
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: if you will, and look, if you didn't do it,

457
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 2: he shouldn't go to prison. That's also true too.

458
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: Agree, thirty days is an awful long time and the

459
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 4: drudgery of some of those chain of custody type witnesses

460
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: is pretty dry. I mean, you know, but it's necessary

461
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 4: to meet those elements and to get that evidence in.

462
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 4: Although some of those were text messages, they were pretty compelling.

463
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: Summary was compelling, yeahs, But I would have the person

464
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: read the you know, read their own texts. You know,

465
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 2: why have there not been any celebrities or any you know,

466
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: the chief of staff KK, things like that. Do you

467
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: have an opinion on any of that?

468
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,719
Speaker 4: Well, KK, it's whether or not KK was willing to testify.

469
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 4: So her texts came in as business records and things

470
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 4: of that nature. So we talked about that when I

471
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 4: was on with you last time, Yeah, it was in

472
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: doubt whether or not she was going to testify, and

473
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 4: we we actually discussed the fact that much of her

474
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 4: evidence was documentary evidence that could commit into an investigator,

475
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 4: and that's exactly what happened. So even though she's not

476
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 4: on that stand, she's providing powerful evidence against Ditty in

477
00:23:59,240 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 4: this case.

478
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 6: We're so excited that you'll be joining us tomorrow for

479
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 6: more Diddy. Jared Farantino is the co host of the

480
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 6: YouTube series Primetime Crime and host of the podcast True Crime.

481
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 6: Boss journalist Connor Powell will be breaking down the Idaho

482
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 6: college murders.

483
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 7: Keep it here True Crime tonight.

484
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: We're going to do some comparisons because there have also

485
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: been some new developments in the r Kelly case. He's

486
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 2: serving time behind bars and sort of what that Diddy

487
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: connection and family tree kind of looks like. But also

488
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: we have Connor Powell with us today. Connor is not

489
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 2: only dear to our hearts here at KT because he

490
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: makes many of our podcasts with us, he's also doing

491
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: his own called The Opportunist, and he's also going to

492
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 2: kind of talk to us a little bit about the

493
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: new developments and the Idaho murders and also about this

494
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: very dark, dark, dark documentary he's been working on as well.

495
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: So we'll be bringing him on very shortly. But Courtney, first,

496
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: why don't you give us a little background on the

497
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 2: latest in the Brian Coburger trial.

498
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 6: So what's been going on now is there's a hearing

499
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 6: next week in Pennsylvania and that's going to decide if

500
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 6: six people will have to travel to Idaho to go

501
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 6: to testify in Brian Coburger's trial. So they've been naming

502
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 6: so more people have been coming out. There's William C. Force,

503
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 6: a corrections officer who allegedly has nice things to say.

504
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 6: He was there when Coburger was arrested at his family home.

505
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 6: Jesse Harris, who owns the boxing gym in Pennsylvania where

506
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 6: Coburger worked out, And I mean, it seems like things

507
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 6: are reaching Another guy, Ralph Faccio, he worked at an

508
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 6: auto shop that Coburger frequented. So I'm curious what you

509
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 6: guys and Connor think about just the witnesses that are

510
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 6: coming out, and do we think that the defense is

511
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 6: just trying to make them see like a normal guy

512
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 6: with people who interacted with him.

513
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 2: She didn't have a ton of friends, you know. You know,

514
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: by all accounts, he was sort of a loaner, right,

515
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: he was. He was kind of a loaner in his childhood.

516
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: He didn't have too too many friends. So it wouldn't

517
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: seem completely preposterous to have others that are in his

518
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: world that could at least speak to his character, right,

519
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: I think.

520
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: It's I think it's important to have these kind of

521
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: character witnesses for the defendant. You know, it goes to

522
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 3: their how they presented themselves to the public, you know,

523
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 3: and for instance, this this guard, right, he might have

524
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 3: Coberger might have been very compliant, he might have been polite,

525
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: you know, like those are things that go to his character,

526
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: or he was masking completely.

527
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: I mean, we don't know, we don't know. But that's

528
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 2: why it's also asing like did he not having that,

529
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: you know, the fact that nobody really showed in his

530
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 2: defense as a character witness. Yes, I understand, And it

531
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: makes total sense when Jarrett says it as he did

532
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: in the last segment that look, that's just a part

533
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 2: of the strategy and it opens you up to a

534
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: cross examination, I would assume. But in this case, you know,

535
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger is, you know, on a death sentence trial.

536
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: This is life and death and somebody has to speak

537
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: up for him and the jury can do what they

538
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: want with that information.

539
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 6: Yeah, fair point. Shall we bring in the Yeah, honor Power.

540
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 5: Hello, how are you guys doing, Honor Hi, it's great

541
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 5: to be with you, guys. Congratulations on the show.

542
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: Oh listen, you are you are a family of the show,

543
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 2: So welcome, welcome back, and we're so happy you're here.

544
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 5: Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me on. Yeah.

545
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, this thing that's fascinating about these witnesses,

546
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: it's not exactly clear how they're all connected to Brian

547
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 5: Kilberg or some of them are obvious, some of them

548
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 5: you know that they don't appear to have any connection

549
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 5: to them. But I do think you're overlooking one thing

550
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 5: that the defense might be trying to do with some

551
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 5: of these witnesses, not only to try to humanize them

552
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 5: in but I think they're also trying to set up

553
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 5: whether or not maybe he's autistic. This is something that's

554
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 5: been floated about as possibly a part of their defense,

555
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 5: particularly in defense of like not getting the death penalty,

556
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 5: and that maybe they're also looking to sort of explain

557
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 5: people who've known him for a long time these weird

558
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 5: mannerisms and chicks and the piercing stare and things like that.

559
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 5: Maybe they're trying to establish that he's sort of always

560
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 5: been odd and that if the jury's looking at him

561
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 5: in the courtroom and they see these sort of odd

562
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 5: stairs or ticks or whatever, it's to set up that,

563
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 5: you know, he has some type of mental disability, whether

564
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 5: it's autism or something else, so that they're taking the

565
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 5: death penalty of the off the table. And the defense

566
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 5: is really trying to do two things right. They're trying

567
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 5: to one prevent him from being convicted, but if he

568
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 5: is convicted, also prevent him from being executed as well.

569
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: I remember when that happened, and this, you know, a

570
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: lot of this was brought up in some paperwork regarding

571
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: him potentially having autism, and by the way, the autism

572
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: community really kicked back on that, because, you know, just

573
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: because you're autistic does mean that you get to go

574
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: and kill four people and get away with it. That's

575
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: not you know, that's not how that rolls. But all

576
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: that to be said, we have heard, by the way,

577
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: if we haven't said this. Connor made the Idaho Massacre

578
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: podcast with us, So he is really the officionado in this.

579
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: And we've all talked about this kind of behind the

580
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: scenes many times. Everybody we've spoken to throughout the years

581
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: really has said that he had sort of an odd

582
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: way about him and that he just didn't really get

583
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 2: social cues.

584
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: I do think it's important, though, that the jury know

585
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: about his autism, so that he's not judged for his

586
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: like his maybe his lack of reaction to certain things,

587
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: or you know, the way he's sitting, you know, because

588
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: people people that do have you know, asd as Brian

589
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: Coberger does, can fidget a certain way or you know,

590
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: seem quote unquote different, right, And I don't I think

591
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: it is important that the jury not judge him for that.

592
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: I do well. It also could speak to maybe him

593
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: being targeted for that because he had, you know, he

594
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: sometimes couldn't like hang with the crew, or you know,

595
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: sometimes like somebody would laugh and maybe he didn't get

596
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: the joke right away. You know, who knows there's shades

597
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: of all of this, you know, does that matter?

598
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: Going to that effort to try to humanize, to try

599
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 5: to put him as something other than a cold blooded killer, right,

600
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 5: Like they're trying they're going to try to paint some

601
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: type of picture that he is something other than what

602
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 5: the prosecution is, right, And you know, I'm sure family

603
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 5: will testify that he was a lovely brother or a son,

604
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 5: or a good friend or somebody who you know is

605
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 5: serious about boxing, which you know that was part of

606
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 5: his background, that he was really serious about boxing at

607
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 5: one point. You know, the procetuson is going to try

608
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 5: to paint him as a cold blooded killer, but the

609
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 5: defense is going to try to pain him as something else,

610
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 5: and so they're going to probably offer several different things

611
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 5: and hope that a couple of them stick.

612
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: Totally fair. Yeah, yeah, that's fair, Connor.

613
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: Let's talk about this drive all right across.

614
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: Country, Connor. So, yeah, just to set the stage and

615
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: set you up for this. After the murders, before the holidays,

616
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger returned home with his father. His dad had

617
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: flown out to pick him up basically and bring him

618
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: home for the holiday, and they drove home across you know,

619
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 2: many states and got pulled over twice. Connor, fill us

620
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: in on all of this, because this is the infamous

621
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: drive that is, we're all always contemplating what happened in

622
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: that car if anything.

623
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think it's crazy about this drive

624
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 5: is that he's pulled over with him twice within a

625
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 5: few minutes. I think it's a nine minute time span

626
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 5: or something like that by state police. And you know,

627
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 5: the official line from the FBI and state police is

628
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 5: that they were not pulling him over because of any

629
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 5: connection to the potential murder or the murders right of

630
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 5: the Idaho students. And yet it seems crazy that he

631
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 5: would be pulled over twice on the same stretch of

632
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 5: road within a short period of time. Minutes. Yeah, it's

633
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 5: just it doesn't happen. I mean, everyone has been pulled over,

634
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 5: but how many deals have been pulled over twice? It

635
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 5: just doesn't regularly.

636
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: Happen, right, But I remember it when it did happen.

637
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 3: Actually made a video about this because everyone was like, look,

638
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: get his eyes, he's so evil, and I'm like, no,

639
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: he's surprised that he's getting pulled over again. Like I

640
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: would be like, what is going on?

641
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: You would be petrified too, especially if you committed a

642
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: major crime and the knife was sitting next to your

643
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: dad and your the knife may or may not allegedly

644
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly potentially be in the trunk. That takes a

645
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: level of cool and calm that is, it's really unprecedented

646
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: in many ways. It almost makes it unbelievable. But you know,

647
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: the more we're seeing some of this stuff, it's becoming,

648
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: you know, harder and harder to dispute some of this.

649
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: You know what's weird about this drive too.

650
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: My friend Peachy and I we mapped the drive because

651
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: he was seen in Colorado on a specific day. In fact,

652
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: that's what flatpiety is that he was driving right in

653
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: no route to Pennsylvania from Pullman, Washington. Do they go

654
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: through that Colorado?

655
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: And it's yeah, he took it interesting, strange way back

656
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: right And was he avoiding things.

657
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: Or maybe they wanted to see like some monument or

658
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: something like his dad to see, maybe the biggest ball

659
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: of yarn or I don't know one I was, but.

660
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: It was very interesting. I was like, why did he

661
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: go that way? And Connor, we haven't spoken about this,

662
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, since the last time you and I have

663
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: connected about this. You know, now it's come out due

664
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: to these dateline leaks, and I'm sure you've seen this

665
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: as well that you know, he called his dad, so

666
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger in the hours after the murders, allegedly, but

667
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: prior to the discovery of the bodies, he called his dad,

668
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: you know, for pretty lengthy amounts of time.

669
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 8: You know.

670
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: Is that interesting? Is there something to read into that?

671
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: I know we don't know at this moment, but I'm

672
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: so curious what your take on that is.

673
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

674
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 5: I mean everything that we ever heard talking to people

675
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 5: and have read and you know, just seeing interviews is

676
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 5: that he had a very close relationship with his father

677
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 5: and his parents, and they were constantly sort of worried

678
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 5: about him, checking in on him. I mean, they understood

679
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 5: that they had a unique child. It's probably the most

680
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 5: polite way to phrase it. Based on those you know,

681
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 5: experiences in high school and college in Pennsylvania and so

682
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 5: you know, there was always this relationship. I think that

683
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 5: going back to that conversation about the drive, you know,

684
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 5: you have two police officers who are going to be

685
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 5: able to testify to the way he acted, to what

686
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 5: he was doing, to the way he carried himself. You're

687
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 5: going to have two police officers that are going to

688
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 5: be on the stand who can talk about whether or

689
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 5: not he was wearing gloves or had any visible cuts

690
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 5: or anything like that. So you know, even though he

691
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: wasn't arrested or you know, detained in any meaningful way,

692
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 5: police were speaking to him really in the aftermath of

693
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 5: these murderers and not really knowing that they were that

694
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 5: this was the suspect. So they're going to have some

695
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 5: interesting takes that will probably end up, you know, a

696
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 5: testimony on the stand from these two officers.

697
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 2: And can you imagine because we also know that, yes,

698
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: that he was pulled over twice while driving back to

699
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: back within nine minutes. But additionally, there were feds up

700
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: above watching all of this go down, probably losing their

701
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: minds that their big investigation is getting thwarted not by

702
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: one cop but by yet another nine minutes later. I mean,

703
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: what are the odds of all of that happened? It

704
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: almost seems like it's divinely guided in some way. And

705
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: and look, you know that some of these some of

706
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: these leaks are not looking great for Brian Coburger. But

707
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: you know, how do we get a fair how does

708
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: he get a fair trial? And you know, our hearts

709
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: are so with the victims as I know you you

710
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: know hold that so closely as well. You know this

711
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: is going to be a big summer. It's it's a

712
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: big trial.

713
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 5: Journalist, I think this conversation about all these leaks is

714
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 5: a little bit crazy. I mean, yeah, obviously the defense

715
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 5: wants to limit Indian all leaks. I mean that goes

716
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 5: with help saying, right, that's always the goal of any defense,

717
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 5: you know team. But I would say as a journalist,

718
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 5: there has been a gag order since day one almost

719
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 5: in this entire process, and you know, after Coburger was arrested,

720
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 5: there's actually been very few leaks if you compare it

721
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 5: to even OJ or Casey Anthony or a lot of

722
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 5: these others where there were a ton of leaks throughout

723
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: the entire process leading up to the trial, during the trial,

724
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 5: and I do think it's kind of ironic that the

725
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 5: there's this whole conversation about all of these leaks and

726
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 5: that really hurt Brian Koberger and defense and ultimately, the

727
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 5: evidence is what's going to be convicting or not convicting

728
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger. It's not the leaks that are on date

729
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 5: line and other things. And in comparison to most trials,

730
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 5: I actually think this has been a pretty leak free

731
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 5: process so far. And you know, I think this is

732
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 5: the defense sort of playing for time. They're trying to

733
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 5: stretch this out. They want a lot more time to

734
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 5: go through all the data. And that's really what this

735
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 5: is about, not about any you know a huge amount

736
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 5: of leaks that are really going to hurt Brian Coberger's

737
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 5: defense totally.

738
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: And we've been saying that too, is we just don't

739
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: want the trial to get delayed further because you know,

740
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: we're told that the family really doesn't want that to happen, right,

741
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: they want this trial to happen, and it's taken years

742
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: to get us to this point. Obviously, it's a death

743
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: sentence trial, so that shouldn't be rushed. But even since

744
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: we were making the podcast, you know, even then this

745
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: was up for conversation and they were getting delays and

746
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: delays and delays. So I think the real scary part

747
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 2: with the leak was just the defense having a reason

748
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 2: or being armored with something to cause a delay.

749
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's always leaks, I mean, and that's you

750
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 5: know the real issue for the defense is that is

751
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 5: just what is it sixty eight terabytes worth a data

752
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 5: which is as saw someone. It's like sixty six million

753
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 5: songs they would have to listen to in order to

754
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 5: go through that much information. I mean, the amount of

755
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 5: information that was provided to the defense is really the

756
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 5: big issue, and that they probably aren't going to have

757
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 5: a pypically strong case because of the DNA, the potential

758
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 5: of the eyewitness with the door dash driver, you know,

759
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 5: and other issues with his searches and the purchases of

760
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 5: of the Knight. You know, that's the real issue. But

761
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 5: whether or not a little bit of information has been

762
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 5: leaked to dateline is not going to ruin the jury

763
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 5: pool by any means. And what do you think about

764
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 5: what the leaks and theory are supposed.

765
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 3: To prevent connor what do you think about the door

766
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: dash driver story that's being told that you've heard about this?

767
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: This woman, you know, got pulled over and basically she

768
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 3: was telling the cops basically her life story and then

769
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,479
Speaker 3: went into you know, I'm the DoorDash driver. I saw

770
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 3: Brian that night. Have you heard this?

771
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: What do you think about this?

772
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think this is a fascinating part of

773
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 5: the story you know that has come out, which is

774
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 5: that you have this woman who is in some way

775
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 5: connected to the Brian Koberger investigation. She was pulled over

776
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 5: for being under the influence, and as part of her

777
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 5: sort of breakdown from the police, she says, you know,

778
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 5: I'm the person. I'm the door dash driver who delivered

779
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 5: the food to the house just before the girls were

780
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 5: and Ethan Chafin were killed. And I saw Brian Coberger.

781
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 5: You know, we don't know if she saw his car

782
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 5: or if she saw him specifically, but either way, she

783
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 5: could put his car at the house. She could put

784
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 5: him in the neighborhood. I mean that changes everything, because

785
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 5: that DNA on the knife hold.

786
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 3: That thought A breaking story regarding Madelman Kaine's coming up

787
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: more with Connor Powell, this time an anti sex trafficking

788
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: organization with a really apparent dark side.

789
00:38:49,680 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: It's Pridelinth. Stick around for crime tonight. We have some

790
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: headlines that Courtney, you're gonna fill us in on. What's

791
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 2: the latest.

792
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 6: Well, the man hunt for Travis Decker. He is the

793
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 6: man who has been wanted since June second. He is

794
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 6: accused of murdering his three young daughters, all under ten,

795
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 6: and there has been really a monstrous and cohesive manhunt

796
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 6: looking for him, but a cadaver dog just joined the

797
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 6: man hunt, and it seems like the county sheriff or

798
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 6: the sheriff did. Mike Morrison stated that they plan to

799
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,959
Speaker 6: deploy this cadaver dog as the search engers the fourth week.

800
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 6: So it's it was indicated a little bit yesterday.

801
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 7: That things might have changed. So that's weird.

802
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 3: That's really a sad, you know, turn of events, because

803
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: the sheriff seemed really confident that they were really hot

804
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 3: on his trail. In fact, at one point, the sheriff

805
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: said they basically Adam surrounded. I mean I was expecting

806
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 3: breaking news in any minute. Yeah, we all did and

807
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 3: say sad because, like, you know, there's not going to

808
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 3: be any kind of answer. I mean, not that one

809
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: would help the mom that's foster three beautiful daughters, but

810
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 3: I'm sure some kind of some kind of answer might

811
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: be a little comforting. Maybe I don't know, I just

812
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 3: feel really really terrible for this mom.

813
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: And yeah, the same here, And what's the takeaway, Like

814
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: what do we take from this to even I mean

815
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: that the only take away.

816
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: Did every come up with is there has to be

817
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: some meaningful change for our veterans.

818
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 2: It's the only thing. But I don't know, I don't know,

819
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 2: I don't know the answers.

820
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 6: That's right, because Travis Decker, as body mentioned, was a

821
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 6: veteran and he was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and

822
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 6: part of his wife's great concern about him was that

823
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 6: he was untreated. And you know, conditions when treated are

824
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 6: very different than conditions when not treated.

825
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 2: So and keep in mind, you know, I know we've

826
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: said this before. He was a veteran and he served

827
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: our country and he came back with PTSD allegedly from combat.

828
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: And again, like, if we can't take care of our

829
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 2: this is a really big example of that. So yeah,

830
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 2: we would be remiss not to really take a second

831
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: and see what can be gleaned from this tragedy because yeah,

832
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: and again sending so much love and support to their mom,

833
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 2: because it's a really it's a real place to go

834
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 2: from here.

835
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 7: That's right.

836
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 6: In other news, Madeline McCain, a suspect, could be released

837
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 6: this year after a mystery donor paid the fine. So

838
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 6: Madeline McCain is a young British girl and she disappeared

839
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 6: back in two thousand and seven, and people might remember

840
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 6: the face of this missing girl. She was one of

841
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 6: the most publicized missing persons.

842
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: I believe, they say in the world. In the world, yeah,

843
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: the most that's right, because she.

844
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 6: Was on holiday with her family in Portugal and they

845
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 6: were there from the UK and she went missing, huge

846
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 6: media attention, public interest. And if you can picture her,

847
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 6: she has these big beautiful eyes and one has sort

848
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 6: of a birthmark.

849
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: In it, like a pupil It's like a pupiled tear

850
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: like it, you know, has like a little line, right, beautiful, beautiful.

851
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 6: But this just happened. So the man who authorities believe

852
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 6: is responsible for Madeline McCain's death is a German Man,

853
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 6: Christian Bruckner, and he could be released right after the summer,

854
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 6: in mid September, and that is because an outstanding fine

855
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 6: was recently paid in connection with earlier charges against him

856
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 6: related to forgery and bodily harm and the identity of

857
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 6: the person who paid this was not disclosed.

858
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: So it's nasty, yeah, but they have so much evidence

859
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 3: in the case against against him for even Madeline. You know,

860
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 3: like they dug up that hard drive that was buried

861
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 3: under his dog and it had all these like horrible

862
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: images on I don't understand how paying a fine is

863
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: getting him released. I mean, he's in prison right now

864
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 3: for sexually assaulting a seventy year old woman.

865
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: And literally they had like toddler outfits, didn't they find

866
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 2: like toddler bathing suits, bathing bit at his home and

867
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: he does not have any toddlers.

868
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, guess that's not a crime. But

869
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 3: like this hard drive that was buried under his dog,

870
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: you know, these thumb drives. Basically, this cash of thumb

871
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: drives had pretty compelling evidence that convinced German and Portugal

872
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: authorities that he was responsible for Madeline McCann. But I'm

873
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 3: wondering if they knew this was coming and that's why

874
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 3: they did that big search just recently. You know, recently

875
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: there was a massive search that was undertaken in Portugal

876
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 3: that you know, led by the German authorities, well I

877
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: shouldn't say led by, but in conjunction with the German

878
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 3: authority that they were looking for Madeline in this area

879
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: that you know, Christian the suspect kind of worked and

880
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 3: lived in Portugal. And I'm kind of wondering now that

881
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 3: this has come to light, I wonder if they knew

882
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: that he might be getting out, and they you know,

883
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: if it's related somehow.

884
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 2: What a great because yeah, if you know there's a

885
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: ticking clock and a release happening of somebody who could

886
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: be considered dangerous to the general public, which this person

887
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: would fall under that category, and they need to have

888
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: a couple of more pieces of evidence to hold him

889
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: further or longer. I should say that. Holy tracks to me.

890
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: It does to me too. I just I don't know

891
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: if it's connected.

892
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 3: I just kind of was the first thing that popped

893
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 3: into my mind, like, oh, interesting.

894
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 7: It is interesting, and that kind of goes. I listen.

895
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 6: I don't have one thousand percent confirmation of this, so

896
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 6: I wasn't even going to say it until you said that.

897
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 6: But again, the identity of the person who paid the

898
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 6: fine has not been disclosed. However, a German outlet reportedly

899
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 6: said that this individual was a former employee of Germany's

900
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:50,439
Speaker 6: Federal Criminal Police Office. And here's where it gets even stranger. Apparently,

901
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 6: this person reportedly tried to get the money back after

902
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 6: realizing what the payment was for. So I don't know

903
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 6: if this person was what not swindled, but somehow paid

904
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 6: the debt.

905
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 7: That will get him out of dale, but I want

906
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 7: it too. It feels real unclear to me.

907
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: Can I just do a dummy check here? So just

908
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: sort I'm making sure that I understand it. Is that

909
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: like bail? What is this debt? Is that just like

910
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: Ah just said, debt that you get out of jail.

911
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 2: We're going to find a German lawyer.

912
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was an outstanding fine for something that Christian

913
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 6: Bruckner that was related to something totally different. And take

914
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 6: your pick, because as Buddy said, I mean he's been

915
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 6: he's in prison for doing horrible things to an elderly woman.

916
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 6: But no, it was it was a fine related to

917
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 6: another crime.

918
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: Wow, Wow, unbelievable.

919
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 7: Wow, But I will keep.

920
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 3: Well if this is something I absolutely want to dig into.

921
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 3: So we're probably going to be talking about this a

922
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: little bit more. And listen, we're going to be switching

923
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: subjects very quickly. You mentioned something about this some kind

924
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: of correlation between R Kelly and P Diddy. Now I

925
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: know this is your favorite subject in the world. So

926
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 3: I try to take I can't be. She's like jumping

927
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: right now. She's so excited to talk about this.

928
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: So this didty one just has me confused. Because I

929
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 2: do think part of why we're all here is to

930
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: be able to share all different perspectives, right, Like we're

931
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: not pushing ours, but it's like the law is so

932
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: confusing sometimes, and you know this fall from grace and

933
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: we we look up to certain people. As you know,

934
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: many years ago, I was a big fan of Ditty's

935
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: until I saw that video, the CNN video. I was

936
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: like you when Tupac died, I wasn't so enough in

937
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: the weeds in that. And if you you know, we've

938
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: talked about this a little bit that Tupac is a

939
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: very famous rapper if you're not familiar, and he was

940
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 2: executed allegedly by another gang member air quotes, and you know,

941
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: it's there's been a lot of suspicion around it. So

942
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: the story has always been, or the rumor I should say,

943
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: has always been that somehow Diddy was connected. So you

944
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 2: obviously heard that rumor, and you feel pretty committed to that.

945
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: Why do you feel so committed to that?

946
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it was like the first thing there was

947
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 3: this big rap war clos West Coast. I'm clearly West Coast, right,

948
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 3: you know, like I just I just that was the

949
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 3: immediate and you know, and I live in Vegas, the

950
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: where it happened, and in fact, I drive by the

951
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: Tupac memorial. There's a memorial here, and it was just

952
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: the word on the street. That was that was it.

953
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 7: That was it.

954
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: And by the way, we mentioned this last night too,

955
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: is that you know that trial for the accused in

956
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: that you know, killing is basically saying that did he

957
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: was involved, and you know that is a bottom line.

958
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 2: So it all kind of shows a world, right that

959
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 2: we're all kind of scratching out a little bit that

960
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: you know, Listen, nobody didn't think that there was violence

961
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: in some of this before, but maybe not to this level.

962
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: And you assume that people get to a certain level

963
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: of affluence maybe and they kind of grow out of

964
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: certain behaviors when they don't have to fight for stuff.

965
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: But you know, that's clearly not the case, and we're

966
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: seeing that real time. R Kelly was always kind of

967
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: a confusing one also because he was, you know, an

968
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: R and B star if you're not familiar with his music,

969
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 2: and then Lifetime you may remember this is several years

970
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 2: ago now, did an expose a documentary that was really

971
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 2: powerful that really highlighted some women that were coming forward

972
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: saying that they were being basically, you know, kind of

973
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: held against their will or becoming sex slaves. To R Kelly,

974
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: that was.

975
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 6: A big deal, that documentary. I mean I remember seeing it.

976
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 6: My jaw dropped. I felt like I'd almost never seen

977
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 6: something quite like it because that happened before.

978
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 7: Correct, he was in prison.

979
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's correct. Yeah, that kind of like kicks a

980
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: lot of things off. And you know, he's been behind

981
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 2: bars and he's come up kind of recently, and he

982
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: used to kind of travel in the same circle, the

983
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: R Kelly circle, the Diddy circle. You know, there's so

984
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 2: many photographs of them all together back in the day,

985
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: and the list goes on. But he's been back in

986
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: the press recently because he's been saying I'm there's a

987
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: hit on me behind bars. That the he's been saying

988
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: out loud and even like had a special hearing with

989
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: the judge basically saying that he believes that the prison

990
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 2: guards are trying to kill him and that he's being

991
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: targeted behind bars, and it kind of went nowhere because

992
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: they were like, well, look, I guess don't go to

993
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: prison and you won't have to worry about getting killed

994
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: behind closed doors, and then he suddenly was rushed to

995
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 2: the hospital and almost died. And apparently he was getting

996
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: his medicine that he takes every night, or his vitamins

997
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: whatever they give them at night to rest, and he

998
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: almost was drugged to death. And you know, again, these

999
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 2: are kind of heavy topics that are missed. This odd

1000
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: timing to be happening kind of in a parallel universe

1001
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: while Diddy is going on and this trial is going on.

1002
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 2: So I bring it up just to sort of share

1003
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: the information. I don't know what that boils down to,

1004
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: but it does seem like there's just like a lot

1005
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 2: of players in this. We have Sugar Knight, who was

1006
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: in the car with Tupac again in this infamous night

1007
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas when Tupac was killed. He's, you know,

1008
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: yapping and yelling from behind bars about the Diddy case.

1009
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: I'm so curious what his opinion on all of this

1010
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: is in terms of these new charges or the lack

1011
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: of charges. He should call in, he should call in,

1012
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: Can we get Shade Knight show? You should get Sad

1013
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 2: Night please. I'd be curious what you have to say.

1014
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 2: But you know, suddenly, when you put it on a board,

1015
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 2: you know, which we have and you start seeing all

1016
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 2: of these players and is it slightly connected? I guess

1017
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 2: there's no way really to know. We actually would like

1018
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: your opinion too, so please call us eight eight eight

1019
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: three one crime if you have any opinions about any

1020
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: of this or any insider info. We definitely want to

1021
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: hear it. But you know, just trying to piece it

1022
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: together is is, frankly a full time job.

1023
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 3: Well stick around because next Connor Powell is back with

1024
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: a horrifying case.

1025
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: So, Connor, so many things going on in your world.

1026
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: We can't wait to hear more. You want to fill

1027
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 2: us in a little bit on the.

1028
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 5: Background, and working on a podcast called The Opportunist, which

1029
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 5: sort of tells the story about regular people who turn

1030
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 5: sinister by you know, sort of embracing opportunity. You know,

1031
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 5: how does the normal person next door essentially turns a

1032
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 5: crime or how does the rich person why do they steal?

1033
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 5: And it looks at all types of stories like that, and.

1034
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: What's the takeaway? Do you have any like a takeaway?

1035
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 2: Just having made that, you.

1036
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 5: Know, we're in our tenth season now. I've been working

1037
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,959
Speaker 5: on this for the last couple of seasons. That didn't

1038
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 5: start series, but you know, I think people just get

1039
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 5: tempted by this sort of desire to do more, to

1040
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 5: want more. And we've told a lot of single story

1041
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 5: episodes where it's just you know, a CFO who steals

1042
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,959
Speaker 5: from a fund of money that's meant to help kids

1043
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 5: who have been hurt, you know, by medical accidents, or

1044
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 5: you know, people who are part of a fishing tournament

1045
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 5: who find a way to stuff fish that they can

1046
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 5: win more money. I mean, there's endless amount of stories

1047
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 5: people who sort of do things that you're like, well,

1048
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 5: you didn't need to do that. This wasn't something you know,

1049
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 5: this wasn't a life choice. This is something that was

1050
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 5: sort of extra, an extra demand for more money, for

1051
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 5: more fame.

1052
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 4: More power.

1053
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 5: And that's kind of what we look at in the

1054
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 5: series called The Opportunities.

1055
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 6: It's so good, by the way, and everyone should really

1056
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 6: really be listening because these stories are so well produced.

1057
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 7: Obviously because your hands in it.

1058
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 6: So connor get us up to speed on Tim Ballard

1059
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 6: because this guy, this guy tell us what's going on.

1060
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, we do a lot of single story episodes, but

1061
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 5: we did a season on Tim Ballard and a lot

1062
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 5: of people might remember him from the Sound of Freedom

1063
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 5: movie that came out a couple of years ago, which

1064
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 5: was sort of Tim Ballard's personal story. He's known as

1065
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 5: a guy who is combating sex trafficking around the world.

1066
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 5: You know, somebody was saving children and get sort of

1067
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 5: this dramatic life story about, you know, rescuing a kid

1068
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 5: at a He was working for a department of Home

1069
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 5: od security and he rescued a kid and another kid

1070
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 5: from sex traffickers, and a lot of his story turns

1071
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 5: out to be completely false and made up and exaggerated,

1072
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 5: and even worse for somebody who's supposed to be fighting

1073
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 5: sex trafficking, he's credibly accused by multiple women of rape,

1074
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 5: of sexual assault, of trafficking them himself. And this is

1075
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 5: a guy whose name was made as sort of a

1076
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 5: hero of ending and combating sex trafficking, and yet he

1077
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 5: himself is now accused of it.

1078
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: So it's a story as old as time.

1079
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 3: Right, it's like a beard, right, it's like the guy

1080
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 3: who This is not a surprise, I mean really.

1081
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 4: Right, it's not a surprise.

1082
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 2: It's not a surprise. Wow, I was surprised. I really

1083
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: related to the movie. I thought the movie was incredibly

1084
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,439
Speaker 2: powerful and scary and sad, and it was I knew

1085
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: it was propaganda. You knew it at the time, absolutely well.

1086
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: It did so well. The movie did very, very well.

1087
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: At the time.

1088
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,479
Speaker 3: I only knew it because I did that show on Vice,

1089
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 3: The Resolve Show where I had to dig into a

1090
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 3: vich and Chris. You know, I just I knew it

1091
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 3: was propaganda one hundred percent.

1092
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 2: Wow wow.

1093
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 7: It did gross what two hundred and fifty million? It was.

1094
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 6: It was very popular, but it was divisive and yeah,

1095
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 6: would you he's a maa celebrity.

1096
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not here, but he's he's a celebrity.

1097
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 5: Tony Robbins, the coach Glenn Back. He was invited to

1098
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 5: the White House and to Congress to testify in child trafficking,

1099
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 5: which you know is really big in the sort of

1100
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 5: mag of world. And you know, he was the star.

1101
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 5: He was the celebrity.

1102
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, wow, right, I know he was.

1103
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 6: Even Trump personally invited him to an advisory board. So

1104
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 6: while Tim Ballard is out saying, look at what I

1105
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 6: have you known? Founded and run and I'm helping everybody,

1106
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 6: can you tell us a little more about behind the

1107
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 6: scenes what was going on with quote the ruse and

1108
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 6: what he would do with women who were trying to

1109
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 6: authentically help children who needed help.

1110
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 5: Yes, so part of what they would do Tim Balard

1111
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 5: would do with his organization of yours. They would go

1112
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 5: to foreign countries and he would pretend that he was

1113
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 5: going into a massage parlor to ask about, you know,

1114
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 5: sort of where can he find young women in order

1115
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 5: to have a reason not to engage with a young

1116
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 5: girl who might be presented to him. He'd always bring

1117
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 5: his a wife and it was always sort of another

1118
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 5: American woman that he would bring that he would recruit

1119
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 5: from his network, and they thought they were there to

1120
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 5: sort of help with this ruse, but what they found

1121
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 5: is that he would allow it to go really far.

1122
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 5: He would allow other people massuses and stuff to touch them,

1123
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 5: the women who was supposed to be there like partner,

1124
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 5: and he would rub up against them, he would sort

1125
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 5: of grope them. One claims that she was sexually assaulted

1126
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 5: by him as well, And so he was sort of

1127
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 5: running this couple's ruse that in theory was to sort

1128
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 5: of help him and have a reason for him not

1129
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 5: to have to engage where with young girls and boys

1130
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 5: that he was looking for as part of his combating

1131
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 5: and sex trafficking, but he was also using that couple's

1132
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 5: ruse to essentially assault women.

1133
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 3: What else can you tell us about this organization and

1134
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 3: some of the things that they've done.

1135
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean ou R was his organization, and they

1136
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 5: were the ones that sort of helped make Tim ballor

1137
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 5: to his name and the ironies. At the exact moment

1138
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 5: that that movie Sound of Freedom was coming out, he

1139
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 5: was actually being forced out of ou ARE because of

1140
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 5: these allegations of sexual assaults and sexual abuse and and

1141
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 5: just he was being forced out at the exact moment

1142
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 5: that he was most famous. And you know, he's started

1143
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 5: another organization, but he's really struggled to overcome these accusations

1144
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 5: and in just in fact, in the last couple of weeks,

1145
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 5: he was down in Argentina, and Argentina is now accusing

1146
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 5: him of espionage, broad and sex trafficking. Yep.

1147
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: Well, he's still very active on X. I went his

1148
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 3: profile today and he's still very active on x and

1149
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 3: still has thousands of supporters, right, He's still he does.

1150
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 5: But he's lost some of the biggest supporters, people like Leunback,

1151
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 5: and he's been excommunicated from the Mormon Church. Which was

1152
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 5: this big source of money. Yeah, he was claiming that

1153
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 5: the church supported him, and you know, there's a real

1154
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 5: tie with the more In church, and the Mormon Church

1155
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 5: is finally like, we don't want to be a part

1156
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 5: of what's going on here, and they kicked him out

1157
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 5: of the church and he's he's basically sort of a

1158
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 5: free agent in the religious world these days. He's been

1159
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 5: going from different churches and sort of embracing different spiritual groups.

1160
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 5: But the snek might say he's hitting these groups up

1161
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 5: as a way of fundraising.

1162
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean to be excommunicated. That's massive. But like, listen,

1163
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: you don't seem very surprised because you called it. I

1164
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 2: guess when you saw this movie. I saw this movie

1165
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: and was so over the top sickened by it. And

1166
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: at the very end you see his like real life picture.

1167
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's based on a true story. There's actors,

1168
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 2: and then at the end it's like his you see

1169
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 2: it alack.

1170
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 3: To like Fostgate and like you know, the q an

1171
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 3: on people. It all goes back to all this And

1172
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 3: I'm very in that world because I enjoy debunking those

1173
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 3: kinds of things don't come at me don't come at me,

1174
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 3: but I enjoy the discourse surrounding what I consider to

1175
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 3: be those crazy people. And so it's the sound of

1176
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 3: freedom is tied in with all that.

1177
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: I didn't know that as a as a as a

1178
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: viewer at the time at the theater, I was as

1179
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 2: somebody who's sex trafficking is a very important topic as

1180
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: a company, and we think about it and we work.

1181
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: These are people that believe that kids are being sex trafficked,

1182
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: you know, for a drenal comb like the dreanacomb like that.

1183
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: You know they'll they'll kill babies and drink the blood

1184
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 2: and be young forever. Wait, am I thinking of the

1185
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 2: right movie? Like this is the Marine and save all

1186
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 2: these Save all these kids? And it's that harrowing scene

1187
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: where the kids are in the bed with the trafficker

1188
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: and he has to crawl in and saves them, and

1189
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 2: then we see his real life image at the end

1190
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 2: and he's a hero wearing a US uniform, and I

1191
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 2: was brought to tears. I felt sick by the way

1192
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 2: I've made decisions at work because that movie inspired me.

1193
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 3: Well, the thing though, whether or not he's a wacko,

1194
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 3: it's still a good movie. Right, it's still inspired you you.

1195
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: Should still based on a fraud. Well, but it's still

1196
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: the story.

1197
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1198
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 6: So, but how good of the story is it? Because Connor,

1199
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 6: what about the claims that Oh you are that? What

1200
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 6: about the rescue claims? How credible are they compared to

1201
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 6: sort of what he and the organization, you know, put

1202
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 6: out there and what happened.

1203
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 5: I mean, Oh you Are, even to this day, is

1204
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 5: claiming that they've helped rescue tens of thousands of children

1205
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 5: from trafskying. And we spoke to several journals who have

1206
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 5: been investigating Tim Ballard and Oh you Are for for

1207
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 5: years now, and they said that it's impossible to verify

1208
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 5: even one claim of a child being rescued. That they

1209
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 5: were raising, you know, twenty thirty fifty million dollars a

1210
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 5: year at its height, and that that's the only thing

1211
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 5: you could sort of credibly say that they were accomplishing,

1212
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 5: which was raising a ton of money. And we talked

1213
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 5: to some of the women who worked there, and we

1214
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 5: talked to people who were you know, left the organization,

1215
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 5: and they said that most of the money was spent

1216
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 5: as part of o r to sort of promote Timbalard.

1217
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 5: The rescuer, and there were some things, some training and

1218
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 5: things like that done with local sheriffs and other you know,

1219
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 5: law enforcement organizations. But the idea that they rescued or

1220
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 5: helped rescue tens of thousands of kids is completely inaccurate.

1221
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 5: I can't tell you if they've rescued any but I

1222
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 5: know that they haven't tens of thousands or even thousands.

1223
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1224
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 2: Wow, wow, Well, it still doesn't change the fact that

1225
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: I guess it was a portrait of what could have happened.

1226
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 6: Sure, it would have been great if it actually happened,

1227
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 6: if this guy wasn't sexually assaulting women along the way

1228
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 6: who actually wanted to help.

1229
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 3: And here's why it's dangerous, Like this is like those

1230
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 3: kinds of things really happened. Kids are really getting sex trafficked,

1231
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 3: and you have donors spending money on frauds, and then

1232
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 3: the real children who are being sex trafficked are getting ignored.

1233
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 3: And that's why I get angry at this kind of stuff.

1234
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 3: It's very upsetting. Connor, We're going to continue to follow

1235
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 3: this because I'm very interested in this. So thank you

1236
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 3: so much to Connor Powell, journalist and executive producer for

1237
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 3: the Opportunist podcast. Connor has worked with us on a

1238
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 3: number of projects, including Death Island and the Idaho Massacre. Connor,

1239
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 3: we can't wait to have you back, super glad that

1240
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 3: you were able to join us.

1241
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 6: We have all worked together for a good long time

1242
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 6: and we appreciate you.

1243
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: And yes, thank you all that you do.

1244
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 7: We'll have you back really soon.

1245
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: Hi Connor, Bye.

1246
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 3: Coming up, it's Crime up in we're spotlighting a controversial

1247
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 3: standard ground case with major implications for the LGBTQ community.

1248
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 2: Stick around True Crime Tonight. Listen. We really want to

1249
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: hear from you, So call us anytime eight eight eight

1250
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: three one crime, or you can hit us up on

1251
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 2: our socials at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram,

1252
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 2: or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. So it's Pride

1253
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 2: Week and you know Pride month rather and every day

1254
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: this week we really want to highlight a special case

1255
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 2: that's maybe not getting enough attention, and one of those

1256
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: is about DJ brought us and we have a special

1257
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 2: talk back that is a really important one because his

1258
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: father has left word with us. So Courtney, can you

1259
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 2: give us a little of the backstory, or body, can

1260
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 2: you give us a little of the backstory.

1261
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, So in twenty eighteen, DJ brought us. He's

1262
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 3: thirty one years old and he's a black. He's a

1263
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 3: black Florida man. He was shot four times and killed

1264
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 3: by Gardner Kent Fraser, who's twenty nine, the white man

1265
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 3: he had been seeing. They're both closeted and one day

1266
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 3: they're both in closet, right, they met up one day

1267
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 3: after some turmoil in their relationship, and their meeting ended

1268
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 3: with Fraser shooting brought us four times, twice in the

1269
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 3: face and twice in the back of the head. Due

1270
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 3: to Florida's controversial strands standiard ground laws, though Fraser has

1271
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 3: never been charged. Like, it's it's crazy so Gardener.

1272
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 2: Because he had the gun and he was on his

1273
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 2: own stand yourd ground. He was on his own property

1274
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 2: in the state of fam He's.

1275
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 3: From like a really prominent family in the area. His

1276
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 3: dad is a former deputy sheriff. His great uncle J. E.

1277
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 3: Fraser was a leader within the Florida KKK the guys.

1278
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 2: Yes, and his.

1279
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 3: Great grandfather is an elected state representative. Their relationship broke

1280
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 3: a lot of taboos, right, they both gay. He's white,

1281
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 3: he's black, you know, there's there's a lot of taboos breaking,

1282
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 3: especially within this white guy's family. Right, this this this

1283
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 3: Gardner Kent Fraser. So investigators uncovered one hundred and fifteen

1284
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 3: phone calls and over one hundred text messages between the

1285
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 3: two men, and many of them were you know, they're

1286
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 3: in a relationship, so they're there sexual in nature or

1287
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 3: you know loving.

1288
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: Right, yes, there may be falling in love. Yeah.

1289
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 3: So but Gardner, the white guy got rid of DJ's

1290
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 3: phone after the murder, it has never been covered, and

1291
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 3: deleted all of their texts from that day to this day.

1292
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 3: He's only been charged for obstruction of evidence. That's because

1293
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 3: he got rid of the phone.

1294
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 2: You are kidding me right now. So, like, just because

1295
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 2: you come from a prominent family and have connections into

1296
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 2: law enforcement, that doesn't mean you should be able to

1297
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 2: get away with murder Fraser.

1298
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 3: And this is insane, No, I know, it's really sad.

1299
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 3: So Fraser, he had a girlfriend at the time, and

1300
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 3: you know again he's closeted, right, he had a girlfriend

1301
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 3: at the time, and he feared the DJ brought us

1302
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 3: would expose their relationship, especially after broughd Us played a

1303
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 3: prank on him in which he threatened it, right, Like

1304
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 3: they're arguing, you know kind of thing, and they're teasing,

1305
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell your girlfriend if you you know,

1306
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 3: and he freaked out.

1307
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: Like he just got scared. I guess.

1308
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 3: So it's just they were at Fraser's house that had

1309
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 3: this happened behind the home. So again it's a standiard ground.

1310
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 3: State Fraser claimed to investigators that DJ brought us, who

1311
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 3: was an unarmed by the way, attacked him and that's

1312
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 3: why he shot him in self defense.

1313
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 6: So he said he shot him in self defense. Yet

1314
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 6: if I remember what you said, he shot him four times,

1315
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 6: including two times in the back of the head. Correct,

1316
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 6: and you have everything rightation, it.

1317
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 3: Feels very obvious to me, right, Like this is almost

1318
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 3: like a slap in the face kind.

1319
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 2: Of type situation. Yeah, yeah, I hate crime. Yeah, that's

1320
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: a terrible, terrible thing. It's very sad.

1321
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 3: The state attorney declined to prosecute Frasier brought Us. His family, members,

1322
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 3: who have joined forces with the state and local activists

1323
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 3: like in their area, say the killing was cold blood

1324
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 3: and murder to cover up a socially unacceptable relationship. And

1325
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 3: I one hundred percent agree with their family and friends.

1326
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 3: Now we have some some notes from the family. The

1327
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 3: two individuals of Wald were closeted until this incident and

1328
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 3: never openly labeled their sexualities or identified the relationship. You know,

1329
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 3: they have to you know, like somebody else's life.

1330
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:00,439
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1331
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we are going to that very important talk

1332
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 6: back that Stephanie mentioned earlier.

1333
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 7: It's from DJ's father.

1334
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 9: Hi, I'm the father of Dominic Jerome brought us the

1335
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 9: second affectionately known as DJ. I want to thank the

1336
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 9: station for doing this broadcast to my son, and I

1337
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 9: hope you join my family in the fight of a

1338
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 9: legal system which continues to fail families like yours and

1339
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 9: mins whose love wants are gunn down under the pretense

1340
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 9: of staying your ground. More information can be found on

1341
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 9: my son at hashtag justice the number four DJ broad us.

1342
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 2: Oh we're sending him so much love. Just the sound

1343
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 2: of his voice. Yeah, I mean, this is I'm so

1344
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: glad we get to talk about this stuff. Yeah, I know,

1345
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 2: these are uncomfortable topics. These are you know, we're not

1346
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: accusing people of things, and you know, listen, but if

1347
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 2: we don't talk about it, we don't know how to

1348
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 2: do better. And you know, it is not okay.

1349
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 3: Every time I hear this kind of story, Yeah, I

1350
01:06:56,040 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 3: feel like there's something we're missing, right, Like there's something

1351
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 3: we don't know because this seems so obviously it seems

1352
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 3: like a slam dunk for the prosecution, right, so it

1353
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 3: just seems it just seems very I just feel like

1354
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 3: I just feel like we're missing something. But when you

1355
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 3: actually dig into it to it and you read about this,

1356
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 3: we're not missing anything. This is actually happening in twenty

1357
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 3: twenty five, well in twenty eighteen in Florida.

1358
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 2: Still, but it's been have we come that far seven years? Yeah?

1359
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: We can do better, I think. And again if we

1360
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 2: don't talk about this stuff, we don't know how to

1361
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, set it straight.

1362
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 3: And you know this is this all goes back to

1363
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 3: to strand you stand your ground. And not to conflagrate

1364
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 3: this with other cases, but why do we think that

1365
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 3: stand your ground laws appear to disappropriately like protect white

1366
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 3: shooters when the victims are black, Like it's just like

1367
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: Trayvon Martin.

1368
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 2: This was in Florida too, right.

1369
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 6: Absolutely, No, that's exactly what I had in my head

1370
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 6: was Trayvon Martin when I was thinking about this, and

1371
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 6: this stands your ground I don't know.

1372
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 3: It just seems I just maybe maybe I just haven't

1373
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 3: heard of cases where you know, it's the other way

1374
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 3: around and the black eye gets away with it.

1375
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 2: Am I crazy?

1376
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 5: No?

1377
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 2: You are not crazy. No, the stats are staggering. Actually

1378
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 2: it's staggering. It's actually a little sickening. Even as we're

1379
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: talking about it right now, I get a not in

1380
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 2: my stomach because it's like, how could that be? Okay?

1381
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 3: I don't know if staniel ground laws are shown to

1382
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 3: increase homicides, because it seems like you can just use

1383
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 3: as an excuse rather than prevent crime, why do they

1384
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 3: remain in place in so many states? Like why is

1385
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 3: it still in place in Florida? Do you think it's

1386
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 3: something that listen, do you think I'm at the point

1387
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 3: right now where I feel like it's almost intentful, like

1388
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 3: they're okay with it because it's getting rid of people

1389
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 3: they don't care about.

1390
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 6: You know, I agree with that, and it is really

1391
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 6: hard and I literally I can't. I'm so confounded that

1392
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 6: the fact that there was no prosecution, they denied to

1393
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 6: prosecute him with you know, shots directly to him, and

1394
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:05,759
Speaker 6: that he was unarmed at the time.

1395
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 3: He was unarmed in a shot twice in the face

1396
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 3: and twice in the back of the head. How do

1397
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 3: you shoot somebody twice in the back of the head

1398
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 3: when you're defending yourself.

1399
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 6: And you have to wonder how much sort of what

1400
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 6: did you say that it was? He was tied up with, Oh,

1401
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 6: a state representative.

1402
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 3: His uncle is a grand master in the KKK or

1403
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 3: something like his. His great grandfather is a state representative,

1404
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 3: his somebody else's a sheriff. Yeah, he's got families, you know,

1405
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,719
Speaker 3: in power in this area of Florida.

1406
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

1407
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 3: His great uncle, his great uncle was a leader with

1408
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 3: the Florida KKK, and his great grandfather is an elected

1409
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 3: state representative.

1410
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just it's it's really unfathomable. I think it's

1411
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 2: like a theme we're seeing, even just in this evening.

1412
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 2: You know, if you're looking at the ditty case, you know,

1413
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 2: there's so much power and maybe control and maybe some

1414
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 2: abuse against women. I mean that's pretty obviously the case.

1415
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 2: And you know, we listen to this, you know, the

1416
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: sound of freedom film being a fraud because somebody wants

1417
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 2: to work the system or make some more money on

1418
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 2: the backs of tragic stories that really do happen, and

1419
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,719
Speaker 2: therefore they're undermined by somebody who's a creep and a fraud.

1420
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 2: And now we're hearing this where there is obvious information

1421
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,799
Speaker 2: that would would put justice at least for poor DJ's father.

1422
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 2: Thank you for giving us that callback, by the way,

1423
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 2: and let his family grieve and have justice. But somehow

1424
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,440
Speaker 2: the system gets skirted so confusing.

1425
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 3: In the standard ground law under the justifiable Use of

1426
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 3: force statute as it's called, it's just called the Standiard

1427
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 3: ground law. Like by Layman right, the killer who claims

1428
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 3: self defense may be legally immune from homicide charges and

1429
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 3: not be required to prove that lethal actions were truly

1430
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 3: in self defense. It feels like it's written for people

1431
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 3: to be able to commit legal murder, do you know

1432
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 3: what I mean?

1433
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:08,759
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1434
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 6: Can I just give you the opposite? And I live

1435
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 6: in a very different state. I live in California, But

1436
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 6: quickly we had someone break into our house. One night,

1437
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 6: they broke in, the alarm went off, and my husband

1438
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 6: ended up landing a punch on this person. Thankfully that

1439
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 6: was the only quote violence that occurred. Scary, So yeah,

1440
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 6: three o'clock in the morning, it was this. It was

1441
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 6: literally the scariest in any case that happened. As I said,

1442
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 6: my husband threw and landed a punch, and when the

1443
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 6: police officers came to our house with the alarm blaring

1444
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 6: at three o'clock in the morning and sorted out that,

1445
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 6: in fact, it was a college student on bath salts,

1446
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 6: in fact, who had broken into our house. Yeah, but

1447
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 6: the officers they indicated, like, all right, we'll try not

1448
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 6: to make a big deal about the punch.

1449
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 7: I'm like this, I came in raving lunatics screaming.

1450
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 6: And it was almost we who were in trouble, or

1451
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 6: my husband specifically for bunching him. I mean, I like

1452
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 6: that opposite, No I did. I thought middle ground here, Yes,

1453
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 6: let's find a middle ground from standard ground and what

1454
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 6: I just described.

1455
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 2: Your window, you know, like they're like, what's the middle

1456
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:26,640
Speaker 2: And I guess that's why it's so great that we

1457
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 2: get to discuss it, because what is the middle.

1458
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 3: What's the middle ground? I don't know if there is

1459
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 3: any But if you're interested in learning more about this

1460
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 3: case and you want to support the family, definitely they

1461
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 3: do have a GoFundMe. Just do a Google search for

1462
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 3: Justice for dj broad Us go fundme and on their GoFundMe.

1463
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 3: They have links to all their social media profiles, so

1464
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 3: you can donate or and or you can go to

1465
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 3: their their social media profiles and support them that way too,

1466
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 3: because I you know, listen, they lost their son.

1467
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 2: This is.

1468
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 7: That's right. Thank you for sharing that.

1469
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 2: Listen, guys, we have a very big night tomorrow. So

1470
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 2: just out there because you know, the defense is going

1471
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 2: to do their closing statements in the ditty case as

1472
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: we've been reviewing, and you know, who knows what is

1473
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 2: going to happen with this. It seems as though this

1474
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 2: suddenly has a very wide pendulum.

1475
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 3: Well from the defense, I'm so curious what they're going

1476
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 3: to say in closing arguments. Yeah, we haven't heard anything

1477
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,599
Speaker 3: from them except for crosses right.

1478
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 6: Well, yes, what we do have I feel like a

1479
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 6: little bit of insight is that are they each are

1480
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 6: they each allowed or given four hours? Because in Karen

1481
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 6: Reid's everyone was set to seventy five minutes. And then

1482
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 6: this is harkening back to the piked and massacre of

1483
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 6: the podcast, and in that case, the prosecutor Angie Caneppa,

1484
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 6: who's fabulous, but her opening statement was three and a

1485
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 6: half hours.

1486
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 7: I believe is Actually I.

1487
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 8: Thought it was like two days. It might have been

1488
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 8: somewhere I was. I thought it was like two days.

1489
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 8: At some point the jury just their eyes break so much.

1490
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 2: You know, that's I think generally with the fatigue, and

1491
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:11,680
Speaker 2: I mean we talked about this briefly because you know,

1492
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 2: Courtney and I have sat in, you know, so many trials,

1493
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 2: and particularly that one because it was so devastating, we

1494
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 2: felt very connected to that area that in the in

1495
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 2: the gruesome imagery was so unbelievable, unparalleled, frankly, the things

1496
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:30,600
Speaker 2: that we all saw. And even with that level of

1497
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 2: high stakes, there were days that you you know, were

1498
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 2: like fidgety and it was hard to stay focused and

1499
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 2: because you get a little loss in the sauce, frankly,

1500
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 2: So I think I'm so, I'm glad there is a

1501
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 2: limit on the time because you have to kind of

1502
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 2: stick to the point, right, So four hours is still

1503
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 2: a lot of time.

1504
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 7: Right enjoy say, but yeah, four hours.

1505
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 3: Well, according to the USA today, they said the prosecutors

1506
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 3: will take four hours tomorrow and then the following day

1507
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 3: the defense will take three to four hours. On Friday,

1508
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:06,719
Speaker 3: So I don't know, maybe maybe the judge is giving

1509
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:08,719
Speaker 3: them four hours, but maybe they'll only talk for two.

1510
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's up through the room, I suppose at

1511
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 2: that point. But it does seem as though everybody we've

1512
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 2: spoken to, including you know, even last night, that did

1513
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 2: he's feeling pretty confident.

1514
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 3: Well, I would be two if they started dropping predicate

1515
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:23,240
Speaker 3: acts of reco on my charging slip.

1516
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.

1517
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:26,799
Speaker 3: Especially the ones that I think are pretty dang solid,

1518
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 3: like Arson and I just listen.

1519
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 2: I was really compelled by Kid Cutty. I was very

1520
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 2: how could you not be? Yeah?

1521
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 3: And the dog, the dog got me, Yeah, all of us.

1522
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 6: The dog is their dog was locked what in a

1523
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 6: separate room from where he usually is. The allegation is

1524
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,839
Speaker 6: that did he win in, moved or opened Christmas presents

1525
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 6: and did something with the family dog. It was really

1526
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,560
Speaker 6: it seemed like psychological warfare.

1527
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 3: And then threw a Malotov cocktail into the sun roof

1528
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 3: of Kid cutting car.

1529
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 6: Yes, and stood there looking like an evil supervill.

1530
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 2: Villain, Marvel supervillain. If you don't know the story, it's

1531
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 2: because he was dating briefly Cassie Ventura and then he

1532
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 2: found out about this, meaning Diddy found out about it

1533
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 2: and then went on a terror and wanted to terrorize

1534
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:23,600
Speaker 2: them and basically show them you know whose boss, And

1535
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 2: I guess you know, I guess that doesn't matter. It

1536
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 2: feels like it doesn't count. So I'm so glad again

1537
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 2: this is one of those times onto soapbox. But I'm

1538
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 2: just glad we get to talk about it because it's

1539
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:39,440
Speaker 2: confusing and it's complicated, and for victims and for the accused.

1540
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 2: Of course, he should not go away for something he

1541
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 2: isn't guilty of. Nobody is saying that, but it's just

1542
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:47,759
Speaker 2: really hard to divide up seeing some of the things

1543
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,639
Speaker 2: we've seen and heard that he could actually walk, So.

1544
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 7: I believe my lion eyes.

1545
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, well said Courtney. I'm strong. So listen,

1546
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 2: make sure you come back tomorrow to join us. We'll

1547
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 2: be here live and so much to unpack. This is

1548
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We are talking true crime all the time.

1549
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:15,719
Speaker 2: Have a great night, Stay safe,