Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice
Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the
Speaker 1: author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear
Speaker 1: Guy advice column f TED. And this is Dear Therapists.
Speaker 1: This week we're going to check in on a guest
Speaker 1: from season two to hear how they're doing a year later. First,
Speaker 1: a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.
Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is
Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,
Speaker 1: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may
Speaker 1: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,
Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let iHeart Media use it in
Speaker 1: part orn full, and we may edit it for length
Speaker 1: and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all names have
Speaker 1: been changed for the privacy of our guests. So today
Speaker 1: we're going to hear from Nicole. Nicole's episode was called
Speaker 1: Nicole's Family Divorce. Nicole's parents were getting divorced out of
Speaker 1: forty years, and Nicole had a lot of feelings about it,
Speaker 1: even though she was an adult, because adults often do
Speaker 1: have feelings when their parents get divorced. But Nicole had
Speaker 1: always been in this role in her family of being
Speaker 1: a mediator, and so she really struggled to make space
Speaker 1: for her own feelings because her parents and her sister
Speaker 1: were all coming to her for support. So Nicole really
Speaker 1: wanted to get out of the middle of her parents problems.
Speaker 1: Let's get a reminder of how that session went. It's
Speaker 1: kind of always been my role in life has been
Speaker 1: the listener. So it's my parents, my mom, my dad,
Speaker 1: and then my sister. Everybody always comes to me when
Speaker 1: they have a problem with somebody else in the family,
Speaker 1: and then I kind of carried the burden of everybody's
Speaker 1: and try to give advice where possible. And at this
Speaker 1: point though, it's kind of like everybody's coming to me,
Speaker 1: and then everybody problem is with the other person, which
Speaker 1: is a little more difficult. You're listening to dea therapists
Speaker 1: will be back after a short break, and now let's
Speaker 1: hear what's going on with Nicole. A year later, Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: and Laurie I just want to check in with you
Speaker 1: guys since we last chatted. I did get a new
Speaker 1: job and it's been super great for me, and I
Speaker 1: think that the thing that I changed the most since
Speaker 1: talking to you guys is just being able to shut
Speaker 1: off my engagement in the conversations with my parents. They
Speaker 1: both definitely still try to drag me into it. They
Speaker 1: both try to say things like, oh, your mom and
Speaker 1: I got in a fight, how does she seem? Or
Speaker 1: your dad not gotten a fight? How does he seem?
Speaker 1: Which isn't fair, And to be honest, like I kind
Speaker 1: of got sick of saying like I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about it, so I'm not to the point where
Speaker 1: I just kind of yes my way through whatever they're saying.
Speaker 1: I just want to know how you guys think that
Speaker 1: I can really get more firm with them, or what
Speaker 1: kind of wording I could use to help me with that.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's fair for them to do
Speaker 1: that to me, and I just don't know how to
Speaker 1: say no. I guess I do really want to thank
Speaker 1: you guys for your advice, though, I was able to
Speaker 1: really work on my own feelings and how I feel
Speaker 1: about stuff versus letting their feelings take over. Um, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for all of your advice, and I can't
Speaker 1: hear wait to hear what you guys is updated. So
Speaker 1: it's good to hear that. Nicole is really clear that
Speaker 1: it's unfair that her parents try and put her in
Speaker 1: the middle. And it sounds like the best she's been
Speaker 1: able to do is not engage them when they do
Speaker 1: put her in the middle. But what Nicole is struggling
Speaker 1: with is what a lot of people struggle with when
Speaker 1: they try to set limits. They set the limits. She
Speaker 1: told her parents, I don't want you to come to me.
Speaker 1: It's not fair to put me in the middle. That's
Speaker 1: not good for me. She did that part, But limits
Speaker 1: setting has two parts. The first part is very quick,
Speaker 1: that's setting the limit. The big part is the need
Speaker 1: to maintain that limit thereafter, time and time and time
Speaker 1: again if necessary. And that's where she's struggling. She's not aware.
Speaker 1: I think that she needs to continue to set that
Speaker 1: limit and remind them of it each time. The minute
Speaker 1: her father says, oh, I had an argument with your mom, Dad, Dad,
Speaker 1: to remind you, that's not something I want to hear,
Speaker 1: So please do not address that to me. If you're
Speaker 1: concerned about mom, contact mom, and the same to her mom.
Speaker 1: If she needs to say it every time she speaks
Speaker 1: with them, say it every time you speak with them, Nicole.
Speaker 1: That's what maintaining the limit is about, right, And a
Speaker 1: lot of people feel guilty doing that and they feel
Speaker 1: like they need to apologize for setting the limit. But
Speaker 1: now that Nicole realizes that indeed this is unfair, there's
Speaker 1: nothing to apologize for here. She just needs to be
Speaker 1: very clear and brief, and the important thing is the
Speaker 1: consistency of the response. She can't sometimes give that response
Speaker 1: and sometimes let them talk about the other parent, because
Speaker 1: they're not going to get the message when you are
Speaker 1: consistent with setting the boundary every single time that one
Speaker 1: parent talks about the other. But she very kindly, very calmly,
Speaker 1: very politely says, just a reminder, I don't want to
Speaker 1: hear about your issues with mom or dad. Then that's
Speaker 1: the only way they're going to get the message. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and consistency is the key word, because if you do
Speaker 1: it four times and then the fifth you don't and
Speaker 1: you indulge it. The message she would be giving her
Speaker 1: parents is that some times it is okay when it's not,
Speaker 1: and that's why the consistency is so important. And to
Speaker 1: be clear, it's very emotionally laborious to keep having to
Speaker 1: set limits with people. It's a difficult thing. It feels
Speaker 1: like a confrontation. It's uncomfortable, but I'm reminding the code
Speaker 1: and our listeners. The limit you said is you're letting
Speaker 1: the person know what you will tolerate, not what they
Speaker 1: want to do, but what you will or will not tolerate.
Speaker 1: And when you're saying I will not tolerate that conversation,
Speaker 1: you have to be incredibly consistent and make sure that
Speaker 1: indeed you don't ever tolerate that conversation. That's the only
Speaker 1: way to be consistent and for them to eventually, and
Speaker 1: they will if you're consistent, get the message. I also
Speaker 1: wonder what happened with her sister, because we had given
Speaker 1: her an assignment where her sister would come to her
Speaker 1: as well, and in one of those conversations, she discovered
Speaker 1: that she and her sister were both quite upset about
Speaker 1: the divorce, and we were hoping that maybe she and
Speaker 1: her sister could be mutually supportive for each other so
Speaker 1: there would be some reciprocity there wouldn't just be the
Speaker 1: sister coming to Nicole, but Nicole could also go to
Speaker 1: the sister. So Nicole, if you're listening, I hope that
Speaker 1: you and your sister aren't able to have a more
Speaker 1: reciprocal relationship because you're setting a boundary with her as well.
Speaker 1: Because the thing about boundaries is that while it can
Speaker 1: be scary and it might feel like you're doing something
Speaker 1: aggressive and sometimes people feel like, well, that's just going
Speaker 1: to make things very complicated, setting the boundary actually brings
Speaker 1: clarity to the relationship, makes things less complicated, and brings
Speaker 1: people closer together. Next week, we're going to check in
Speaker 1: with Diane from season two to hear how she's doing
Speaker 1: a year later. I had a really, really, really hard
Speaker 1: time without loss. I was probably a month out from
Speaker 1: surgery when my brother and sister in law announced they
Speaker 1: were pregnant. It really kind of sucked the air out
Speaker 1: of me because I was like, Oh, now she's going
Speaker 1: to be pregnant, and oh, we could have been pregnant together.
Speaker 1: And that really caused like a big friction in my
Speaker 1: relationship with my brother and sister in law because I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to be around them. If you're enjoying
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Speaker 1: you don't miss any episodes, and please help support Dear
Speaker 1: Therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving a
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to
Speaker 1: find the show. If you have a dilemma you'd like
Speaker 1: to discuss with us, email us at Lori and Guy
Speaker 1: at I heart media dot com. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: Noel Brown. We have produced and edited by Josh Fisher.
Speaker 1: Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington and Zachary Fisher.
Speaker 1: Are Interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily guccierrez and Silver Lifton.
Speaker 1: And special thanks to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Curic.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you at our next session.
Speaker 1: The A Therapist is a production of I Heart Radio.
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