1
00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

2
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the

4
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 1: author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear

5
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: Guy advice column f TED. And this is Dear Therapists.

6
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 1: This week we're going to check in on a guest

7
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,760
Speaker 1: from season two to hear how they're doing a year later. First,

8
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 1: a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

9
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,880
Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is

10
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

11
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,

12
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 1: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may

13
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

14
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,159
Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let iHeart Media use it in

15
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,520
Speaker 1: part orn full, and we may edit it for length

16
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 1: and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all names have

17
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 1: been changed for the privacy of our guests. So today

18
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 1: we're going to hear from Nicole. Nicole's episode was called

19
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 1: Nicole's Family Divorce. Nicole's parents were getting divorced out of

20
00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: forty years, and Nicole had a lot of feelings about it,

21
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,320
Speaker 1: even though she was an adult, because adults often do

22
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 1: have feelings when their parents get divorced. But Nicole had

23
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,800
Speaker 1: always been in this role in her family of being

24
00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,279
Speaker 1: a mediator, and so she really struggled to make space

25
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 1: for her own feelings because her parents and her sister

26
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,960
Speaker 1: were all coming to her for support. So Nicole really

27
00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 1: wanted to get out of the middle of her parents problems.

28
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,880
Speaker 1: Let's get a reminder of how that session went. It's

29
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 1: kind of always been my role in life has been

30
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: the listener. So it's my parents, my mom, my dad,

31
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,960
Speaker 1: and then my sister. Everybody always comes to me when

32
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,200
Speaker 1: they have a problem with somebody else in the family,

33
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 1: and then I kind of carried the burden of everybody's

34
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 1: and try to give advice where possible. And at this

35
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: point though, it's kind of like everybody's coming to me,

36
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 1: and then everybody problem is with the other person, which

37
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: is a little more difficult. You're listening to dea therapists

38
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:26,119
Speaker 1: will be back after a short break, and now let's

39
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 1: hear what's going on with Nicole. A year later, Hey, guys,

40
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,000
Speaker 1: and Laurie I just want to check in with you

41
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,440
Speaker 1: guys since we last chatted. I did get a new

42
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 1: job and it's been super great for me, and I

43
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: think that the thing that I changed the most since

44
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,680
Speaker 1: talking to you guys is just being able to shut

45
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,919
Speaker 1: off my engagement in the conversations with my parents. They

46
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 1: both definitely still try to drag me into it. They

47
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 1: both try to say things like, oh, your mom and

48
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 1: I got in a fight, how does she seem? Or

49
00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 1: your dad not gotten a fight? How does he seem?

50
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 1: Which isn't fair, And to be honest, like I kind

51
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: of got sick of saying like I don't want to

52
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,880
Speaker 1: talk about it, so I'm not to the point where

53
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 1: I just kind of yes my way through whatever they're saying.

54
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,079
Speaker 1: I just want to know how you guys think that

55
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 1: I can really get more firm with them, or what

56
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,960
Speaker 1: kind of wording I could use to help me with that.

57
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's fair for them to do

58
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: that to me, and I just don't know how to

59
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: say no. I guess I do really want to thank

60
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: you guys for your advice, though, I was able to

61
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 1: really work on my own feelings and how I feel

62
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 1: about stuff versus letting their feelings take over. Um, thanks

63
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 1: so much for all of your advice, and I can't

64
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 1: hear wait to hear what you guys is updated. So

65
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,720
Speaker 1: it's good to hear that. Nicole is really clear that

66
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 1: it's unfair that her parents try and put her in

67
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 1: the middle. And it sounds like the best she's been

68
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 1: able to do is not engage them when they do

69
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,640
Speaker 1: put her in the middle. But what Nicole is struggling

70
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 1: with is what a lot of people struggle with when

71
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,240
Speaker 1: they try to set limits. They set the limits. She

72
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,240
Speaker 1: told her parents, I don't want you to come to me.

73
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 1: It's not fair to put me in the middle. That's

74
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,479
Speaker 1: not good for me. She did that part, But limits

75
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,920
Speaker 1: setting has two parts. The first part is very quick,

76
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 1: that's setting the limit. The big part is the need

77
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 1: to maintain that limit thereafter, time and time and time

78
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: again if necessary. And that's where she's struggling. She's not aware.

79
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,599
Speaker 1: I think that she needs to continue to set that

80
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 1: limit and remind them of it each time. The minute

81
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 1: her father says, oh, I had an argument with your mom, Dad, Dad,

82
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 1: to remind you, that's not something I want to hear,

83
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 1: So please do not address that to me. If you're

84
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: concerned about mom, contact mom, and the same to her mom.

85
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 1: If she needs to say it every time she speaks

86
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 1: with them, say it every time you speak with them, Nicole.

87
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 1: That's what maintaining the limit is about, right, And a

88
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 1: lot of people feel guilty doing that and they feel

89
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,200
Speaker 1: like they need to apologize for setting the limit. But

90
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 1: now that Nicole realizes that indeed this is unfair, there's

91
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,200
Speaker 1: nothing to apologize for here. She just needs to be

92
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,599
Speaker 1: very clear and brief, and the important thing is the

93
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 1: consistency of the response. She can't sometimes give that response

94
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes let them talk about the other parent, because

95
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: they're not going to get the message when you are

96
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: consistent with setting the boundary every single time that one

97
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,360
Speaker 1: parent talks about the other. But she very kindly, very calmly,

98
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,800
Speaker 1: very politely says, just a reminder, I don't want to

99
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 1: hear about your issues with mom or dad. Then that's

100
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,880
Speaker 1: the only way they're going to get the message. Absolutely,

101
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 1: and consistency is the key word, because if you do

102
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 1: it four times and then the fifth you don't and

103
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 1: you indulge it. The message she would be giving her

104
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 1: parents is that some times it is okay when it's not,

105
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: and that's why the consistency is so important. And to

106
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 1: be clear, it's very emotionally laborious to keep having to

107
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 1: set limits with people. It's a difficult thing. It feels

108
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 1: like a confrontation. It's uncomfortable, but I'm reminding the code

109
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 1: and our listeners. The limit you said is you're letting

110
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: the person know what you will tolerate, not what they

111
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,799
Speaker 1: want to do, but what you will or will not tolerate.

112
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,440
Speaker 1: And when you're saying I will not tolerate that conversation,

113
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,800
Speaker 1: you have to be incredibly consistent and make sure that

114
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 1: indeed you don't ever tolerate that conversation. That's the only

115
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,320
Speaker 1: way to be consistent and for them to eventually, and

116
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: they will if you're consistent, get the message. I also

117
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: wonder what happened with her sister, because we had given

118
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 1: her an assignment where her sister would come to her

119
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 1: as well, and in one of those conversations, she discovered

120
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: that she and her sister were both quite upset about

121
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 1: the divorce, and we were hoping that maybe she and

122
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 1: her sister could be mutually supportive for each other so

123
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: there would be some reciprocity there wouldn't just be the

124
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,039
Speaker 1: sister coming to Nicole, but Nicole could also go to

125
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,440
Speaker 1: the sister. So Nicole, if you're listening, I hope that

126
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: you and your sister aren't able to have a more

127
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,240
Speaker 1: reciprocal relationship because you're setting a boundary with her as well.

128
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 1: Because the thing about boundaries is that while it can

129
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: be scary and it might feel like you're doing something

130
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 1: aggressive and sometimes people feel like, well, that's just going

131
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 1: to make things very complicated, setting the boundary actually brings

132
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 1: clarity to the relationship, makes things less complicated, and brings

133
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 1: people closer together. Next week, we're going to check in

134
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 1: with Diane from season two to hear how she's doing

135
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 1: a year later. I had a really, really, really hard

136
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 1: time without loss. I was probably a month out from

137
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: surgery when my brother and sister in law announced they

138
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 1: were pregnant. It really kind of sucked the air out

139
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 1: of me because I was like, Oh, now she's going

140
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 1: to be pregnant, and oh, we could have been pregnant together.

141
00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: And that really caused like a big friction in my

142
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 1: relationship with my brother and sister in law because I

143
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,200
Speaker 1: just didn't want to be around them. If you're enjoying

144
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 1: our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for free so that

145
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 1: you don't miss any episodes, and please help support Dear

146
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: Therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving a

147
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to

148
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,640
Speaker 1: find the show. If you have a dilemma you'd like

149
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: to discuss with us, email us at Lori and Guy

150
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,720
Speaker 1: at I heart media dot com. Our executive producer is

151
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: Noel Brown. We have produced and edited by Josh Fisher.

152
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 1: Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington and Zachary Fisher.

153
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,080
Speaker 1: Are Interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily guccierrez and Silver Lifton.

154
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: And special thanks to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Curic.

155
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you at our next session.

156
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,240
Speaker 1: The A Therapist is a production of I Heart Radio.

157
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: Fisher third