1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: All Right, hey guys, um, welcome back to another episode. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: So I, um, I kind of just really want to 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: jump in with my guest today because obviously I'm kind 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: of having all the fields right now and I had 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: this um uh, It's been kind of great because I've 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: relied on so many of of y'all for you know, 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: just inspiration and quotes and posting things about strength and 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: moving on. And one of the d ms that I 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: got was about this girl named Michelle Dempsey. Um, she's 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 1: and someone basically said, like, you need to check out 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: her book. It's it's called Moms Moving On. And I 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: just started to stalk her naturally on Instagram, and I 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: just I really truly love her story and everything that 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: you know that she is. And so I just honestly 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: just want to get her on right now and just 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: kind of dive into it because there's no better person 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: to talk to than someone that has been in that situation. 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: So let's get Michelle on and let's have a conversation. 20 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: I'm here, hey girl, Hi, Okay. So, because so I 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: was just kind of filling in the listeners and just 22 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: for a second, about I've had so many people reach 23 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: out to me about like, oh, follow this person, like 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: this person is great at this or you know, um, 25 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, read this person's book. And one of the 26 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: direct messages I got was about you and so I know, 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: so they're like, you should look into this girl named 28 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: Michelle and she's all about you know, mom's moving on. 29 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: She went through a divorce, and so I started to 30 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: stock you on Instagram and was like, I need to 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: have her on my podcast because you know, obviously everything 32 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: just went um finalized the divorce a few weeks ago, 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: and I just there's no better time now to kind 34 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: of pick myself up and have this conversation with someone 35 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: that's been through it and can hopefully help guide not 36 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,639 Speaker 1: only me, but everyone else that's going through a breakup 37 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: or situation from you know, from that needs to keep 38 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: moving on. So, Michelle, can you just give me a 39 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: little snippet of your story so I can catch up. Yes, Well, 40 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: first I just want to say thank you for stalking me, 41 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: because all of my followers were sending me articles and 42 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 1: they were like, you have to talk to her. You'll 43 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: make her feel so much better. Get her on your podcast. 44 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: And I'm like I don't. I'm not going to swoop 45 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: in and be like, congrats your divorce, let's chat. So 46 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm glad you reached out to me, But yeah, I 47 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: um somehow ended up a divorce coach. I'm a certified 48 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: divorce specialist. I was writing for a whole bunch of 49 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: Mommy publications as a blogger when I got divorced and 50 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: my daughter was too, and I had had already been 51 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: growing my social media, so people were watching and reading 52 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, I have to be 53 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: authentic and nobody was like out there talking about divorce 54 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: yet on Instagram. So I started to and and Scary 55 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: Mommy and some of the other publications that I write 56 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: for were really welcoming and open about me changing my 57 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: content to what it's like to co parent a little 58 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: kid and how much it sucks to be a single 59 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: mom at thirty three years old. And um, with that, 60 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: my my following grew. And as my following grew, I 61 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: realized people really needed answers to questions that a year 62 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: and a half ago I didn't feel comfortable answering. So 63 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: I started my podcast so I could bring in other 64 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: experts and I literally just take all the questions in 65 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: my d m s and find experts that can answer 66 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: them and I and I bring them on and we 67 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: have great discussions that have been really helpful for people. 68 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: And then people started to reach out about hiring me. 69 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: So I got certified as a coach and a divorce 70 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: specialist so that I can work with women primarily who 71 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: are looking for the strength to leave and kind of 72 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: need that final push and a little bit of a strategy, 73 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: and women who are adjusting to co parenting, because there's 74 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: no harder thing in the world, as I'm sure you 75 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: already know. Um. And then I got a book deal 76 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: with Simon and Schuster. Not like it. It didn't just 77 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: land in my lap. I'm gonna start that over. I 78 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: wanted to write a book. I worked my ass off 79 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: for about six months until I got a book deal 80 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: from Simon and Schuster. So the book comes out later 81 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: this year, and it's really like what to expect when 82 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: you're expecting, but for divorcing moms who are just like, 83 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: how did I end up here? And why? I mean, 84 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: for that's I'm so thankful that you are doing this 85 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: because there are so many people and it's shocking to 86 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: me to like in my Instagram, the d m s, 87 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: it's the amount of people that were like, how did 88 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: you get the courage to leave? And it breaks my 89 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: heart because I'm like, that's of my messages is like 90 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: how did you get the courage? I don't know how 91 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: to leave? And I'm like and it makes me just 92 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: want to cry because I'm like, I was that girl, 93 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, and now it's like there's all these women 94 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: that are just so unhappy and they want hope, so 95 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: they're trying, but then they're just like when they come 96 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: to the end of their road and it's just like 97 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: I'm tired, you know, of of fighting for it, and 98 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: they're depressed and they don't know how and then you 99 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: know a lot of them are like, well, financially, I 100 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: don't know how to get out, and then they just 101 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,119 Speaker 1: feel stuck. So what do you say to those people 102 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: that are going through that kind of challenge? I always 103 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: if I had a dollar for everyone who asked me 104 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: that question like it, I'd be, you know, floating in 105 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: the South of France somewhere. But the truth is, there's 106 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: no one size fits all model like to answer that, 107 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: I think, and everyone hates to hear this because they're like, no, 108 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: I need more than that answer. But I had somebody 109 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: on last year Tanya Zucker brought from F Factor, and 110 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: she talked about what it was like to be in 111 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: a really like loveless, almost emotionally abusive marriage, and it 112 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: came down to spending endless years crying and thinking and 113 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: analyzing and strategizing, how am I going to be okay? 114 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: How my daughter is going to be okay? What are 115 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: we going to do for money? Until you come to 116 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: that moment where it's like one last fight or one 117 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: last text from some woman or one last whatever, and 118 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: you're like that's it. You have this awakening and you're like, 119 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to go now because if I don't go now, 120 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: my soul will die and I'll probably die along with it. 121 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: And it's just it's one of those moments that you 122 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: can't describe and I hate to say it, but when 123 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, and as I'm sure you came 124 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: to a point where you were like, I've done everything 125 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: I can do. I've tried the counseling, I've cried, I've begged, 126 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: I've pleaded, and I just can't do it anymore. But 127 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: I always say, you can be as done as you 128 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: want to be. But I never suggest leaving without counseling 129 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: for two reasons. Women tend to carry a lot of 130 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: guilt after divorce, and I feel like going to counseling 131 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: is where you're going to say, all right, now I've 132 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: officially tried everything. We've come to counseling, and also where 133 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: your counselor will say, yeah, it seems you, guys are 134 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: at the end of the road, and you'll get that 135 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: validation that you need. So my advice is always you 136 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,119 Speaker 1: don't want to lay your head down on your pillow 137 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: at night without knowing you've tried everything you can try, 138 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: just because of that mommy guilt that creeps in um. 139 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: But when you feel it, you have to honor it 140 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: and and not overthink it and just kind of go. 141 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's that for me was even hard 142 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: because for me, I always was like, Okay, if I 143 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: have that smoking gun, then i'll leave again. Then then 144 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: I'll go. And it's like, you know, I think it 145 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: was hard for my friends too, because it's like, Okay, 146 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: you got your smoking gun, why aren't you leaving? And 147 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, this is not easy, Like this is 148 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: not like what I like, even though I know I 149 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: need to like, it still was like the hardest thing 150 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: I ever had to do, you know. And I was like, 151 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,119 Speaker 1: I think that's even when you have your aha moment, 152 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: like you have no choice, it's still like this. I 153 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: think that's like where the punch hits me, is like 154 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: the the reality of like And I think that's where 155 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: why it was so hard for me, you know, a 156 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: week ago when it all got finalized, It's like I 157 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: knew it was coming. I knew it was going to 158 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: be on this day, and I knew it was gonna 159 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: be a really hard day, and I knew I had 160 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: to show up to work and film and you know, 161 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: feel it and then you know, hold it, push, push 162 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: it all back in. But it was that moment where 163 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: it's like the finality of like the reality that was like, well, 164 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: what what we what? I didn't want ever, I wouldn't 165 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: have spend thousands of dollars in therapy and and tried 166 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: and and you know, has spent sleepless nights and all 167 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: the tears and all the like, you know, all the 168 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: trying and all the to to end up here, but 169 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: you ended up here. And that's something I always say, 170 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: like nobody wants to be I remember walking out of 171 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: divorce court four and a half years ago. I'm just like, 172 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, what in the health for me? It brought 173 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: up a lot of child to trauma because I'm a 174 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: child of divorce and I swore, I swore I would 175 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: never get divorced and never get married because I never 176 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: wanted to get divorced. Then here I am walking out 177 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: a divorce court by myself. It was like nine oh 178 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: five on a Tuesday morning, and I'm like, huh, Like, 179 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: what do you know? Life just came full circle and 180 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: it was a punch in the gut. As much as 181 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: I knew I had no choice but to be in 182 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: this situation. And I think, you know, accepting what what 183 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: it means to emotionally entire yourself from somebody that hurts 184 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: you will help empower you through the decision. Like you know, 185 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: the fact that you could come to work on the 186 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: day that you got divorced and and just put a 187 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: happy face on and through the day. I want to 188 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: say a large part of that is the drive you 189 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: have because you're a mom and you're gonna make me 190 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: cry stop. Okay. It's a very, very very like, I 191 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: struggle so much with co parenting, Janna. I am in 192 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: between therapy appointments for my daughter right now. We're having 193 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: a very hard time. But it all comes back to 194 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: what I wanted her to grow up seeing in terms 195 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: of a relationship and how how a woman should be 196 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: treated and never have her think that emotional abuse or 197 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: cheating or any of that stuff is okay. And I 198 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: think that's what it comes down to for every woman 199 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: who finally has to leave. Yeah. Yeah, and I and 200 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: I and what this story that you know, we always 201 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: wanted to tell was like, well, look how we overcame it. 202 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: And so now it's like now I have to read 203 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: kind of train my brain of Okay, now this is 204 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: the new story that I have to know tell her. 205 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting that something you 206 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: said to about the guilt, because there's still I mean, 207 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: I woke up today I had just a immense amount 208 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: of anxiety, like, well, if I would have maybe been 209 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: a little less naggy, or maybe if I would have 210 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: been a little less controlling or like and then I 211 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: start to put that on me, like what and there 212 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: are things, of course that we can all be better 213 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: and do better, And there's a million things that I 214 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: wish I could go back and and do different things, 215 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: but I still know the end resull like we don't 216 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: deserve certain things that happened, um, no matter what. But 217 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: still it's just how do you how do you let 218 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: go of those things so you don't just drag yourself 219 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: because I'm like, I want to be happy, you know, 220 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: and I just feel like I'm I'm being like held 221 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: down from the what IF's and the like oh no, 222 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: like and then and also like I think there's the 223 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: moments to have, you know, the anger still comes into 224 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: of the reality. Like just like you said, yes, I've 225 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: been married before, but I didn't want to, like and 226 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: I always would leave to be like, well, I'm not 227 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: having kids because I'm like, I'm again a product of divorce. 228 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: I will not like this is not right. I need 229 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: to because I will not have my kids being a 230 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: doors house ever ever. And then I'm like here we are, 231 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: what how did this happen? Right? You know? And some 232 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: people say really stupid things sometimes like oh my god, 233 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: you should have just left before you had kids, and 234 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well my daughter is my best friend, 235 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: but thanks, um, yeah, I mean, look, nobody, nobody wants 236 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: to be there, but that anxiety and that what if 237 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,119 Speaker 1: I actually posted about it this morning? How my anxiety 238 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: just went into full on overdrive and I started having 239 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: like obsessive compulsive issues, like ruminating thoughts that were horrible 240 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: about like what might happen to my daughter when is 241 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: not with me? I was like over the top and 242 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: I had to really tackle my anxiety at that point. 243 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: But I think it comes down to realizing that like 244 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: if you were less naggy, he wouldn't have had less 245 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: of an issue. If you were less something, if your 246 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: boobs were bigger, if you were more perfect. Like that's 247 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: a degree of infidelity is that it very often has 248 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: nothing to do with us at all. You know, when 249 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: when a woman and cheats, it's because she feels neglected. 250 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: When a man cheats, it's because he's got issues and 251 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: it's nothing more than that. And it's like searching for 252 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: this sense of loss that they felt at some point 253 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: in their lives and it you know, look at Jlo 254 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: and a Rod it's like, you're really, dude, you're gonna 255 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: cheat on JL. Like it never has anything to do 256 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: with the person, So you could have been everything or nothing, 257 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: and it's still would have happened. And I think that's 258 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: what women have to realize, is that marriages don't fall 259 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: apart because of one or two things that they might 260 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: not have done right. It's a lot of stuff that 261 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: people carry when they're coming into marriages that tend to 262 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: get exacerbated. And men are never really the ones to 263 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: like seek the help for themselves. It's the women who 264 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: do all this work, and so you know, to put 265 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: that kind of pressure on yourself is just unfair to you, 266 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: but also really natural. And the anger is natural, and 267 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: the doubt and the insecurity and the anxiety, that's all 268 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: It's all going to come in waves. And I always 269 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: say it takes about a year after your divorce is 270 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: finalized for you to like really level out emotionally and 271 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: start to see things almost with more gratitude for being 272 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: in the situation that you're in now. And I hear 273 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: you say that, and I'm like, Okay, I'm so excited 274 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: for that day, But at the same time, like, how 275 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: could I be grateful that my kids aren't with me 276 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: every day and then I have to say goodbye to them? 277 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: Like that's the part that I'm like those are my babies. 278 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: Like I hate it. I hate it, but you know what, 279 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: aside from having to co parent with somebody who makes 280 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: co parenting difficult, I have. I have manifested exactly the 281 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: life I feel that I always deserved. I went through 282 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: a lot of trauma as a child. I kind of 283 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: grew up telling myself the story that I wasn't worthy 284 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: of a happy life or a happy marriage, that I 285 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: would never have that you know, I'm not like other 286 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: girls because I'm so damaged and broken, and I used 287 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: my divorce as an opportunity to be like, well, fuck, 288 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: I deserve that too, So what do I need to 289 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: do to get that? And I started working on myself 290 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: in ways that has really like, I feel like I 291 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: couldn't have the life I have now had I not 292 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: done all that work. So I chose to heal. And 293 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: I always said like, I'm not done with love yet. 294 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: I didn't have the love I deserved and I'm going 295 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: to get that. And for me, that was really important. 296 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: And I feel, you know, a year from now, a 297 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: week from now, your life can change. You don't know 298 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: what can happen in a year. And everybody writes me 299 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: at the one year mark because I always say, you 300 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: don't know what can happen in a year, and they're like, 301 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: look what happened in a year, and that it's it's 302 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: going to happen for everyone. And you're also going to 303 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: find your comfort in co parenting, Like it took me 304 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: about a year and then it was great. And then 305 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, now my daughter has some issues going to 306 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: her dad's which is hard, but but it comes and 307 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: goes in waves, and you learn to adapt your life 308 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: to the time that you're with them and when you're 309 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: not with them, Like you're going to enjoy parenting so 310 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: much more because you're going to be that much more 311 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: present when you have them, because you know what it 312 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: feels like when you don't have them. And I truly 313 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: think that's the best gift of motherhood and co parenting. 314 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: And I will say to there's something like now it 315 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: I don't have to carry the like when's the next 316 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna drop? Or is he really telling the truth? 317 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: Or like is he cheating on me? It's like I'm 318 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: so much happier around my kids now, Like I feel 319 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: like I'm lighter with them, and it's it's that's been 320 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: a gift to Oh my god, but that's but that's 321 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: it right there. Like your children are children, nobody's children, 322 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: anybody listening. They don't deserve to carry the weight of 323 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: our emotions. And we often don't realize when we're in 324 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: these really toxic marriages how much that tension rubs off 325 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: on them, because it does, no matter how much we 326 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: mean for it not to, it does. So that alone 327 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: is a gift to your children. And when you're crying 328 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: because your kids are not with you, you're going to 329 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: remember that they deserve daddy by himself and mommy by 330 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: herself instead of mommy and daddy unhappy together. How do 331 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: you not be so angry with your X because of 332 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: the choices that UM have now affected that reality and 333 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: that dream that you wanted. I think you can be okay, 334 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: you can be angry with your ex. There's um there's 335 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: a psychologist in New York who came on my podcast 336 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: and talked about righteous anger and like, you are righteously angry, 337 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: Like you have a right to be angry. In the 338 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: second you tell yourself, oh, I shouldn't be angry. Anger 339 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: is a bad emotion. You're suppressing everything and it's only 340 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: going to come out in other ways later on be angry. 341 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: Like one of the best things I ever did was 342 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: just starting to Instead of like having three drinks every night, 343 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: I every morning would wake up and drag my ass 344 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: to the gym and try different class every day just 345 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: to keep myself. Instead of running on the treadmill, I've 346 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: kicked box. As cliche as it was, it felt really 347 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: good to hit something. I channeled my anger into, like physicality, 348 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: and I think that that helps, you know. L Wood said, yes, 349 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: happy people just un kill their husband's right exercise and doorphins, 350 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: But it really works for me and I and I 351 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: always tell women they have to find that thing where 352 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: they they can use the anger and process it and 353 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: like get it out, because if it stays inside, it 354 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: turns into all sorts of ugliness. So I can't tell 355 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: you how not to be angry, because you have to 356 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: be angry. You have a right to. But there's like 357 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: a time and a place, just like there's a time 358 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: and a place for crying. You're not going to cry 359 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: all day. You're not going to cry on set, You're 360 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: not going to cry in the car with your kids. 361 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: You're gonna wait till nighttime when it's like you're alone 362 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: in bed, hyperventilating. Um. But it's just it's the same 363 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: with anger. You almost have to say, Okay, I'm going 364 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: to the gym, I'm gonna let it all out right here, 365 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: or I'm going to the beach to sit by myself 366 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna fucking rage for a few minutes. 367 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: I think you need to have that entitlement to your 368 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: anger and stop telling yourself it's so bad. Then how 369 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: do you co parent with that anger? So I think 370 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: what your ex husband needs to I don't know you 371 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: know his side, but I'm hoping he's taking responsibility that like, 372 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: you're in this situation because of him. And what you 373 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: do when you have all those angry emotions in co parenting, 374 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: is you really just limit contact to what needs to 375 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: be said. You know, you do have to take a 376 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: step back and realize that your children are lucky to 377 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: have a dad in their lives. It would be much 378 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: harder if he did what he did and then just 379 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: bounced right. You have to separate your anger from the 380 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: fact that he is entitled to be their dad. And 381 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: you know, every time you want to pick up the 382 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: phone and be like your mothercker if he's with the kids. 383 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: Know that that's going to take not only time and 384 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: attention away from the kids that he should be giving them, 385 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: but it's also going to pull you into a hole 386 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: when you should be using all of your energy at 387 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: that time to keep things light for yourself because you 388 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: don't have the kids. And I always say one of 389 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: the best things, like when I get really, really really angry, 390 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: is all right, like a raging email and not send it, 391 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: Like I I have notes in my phone, I have 392 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: emails in my drafts, because at least you're taking the 393 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings and putting them somewhere they're not festering 394 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: inside of you. But also know that sending it will 395 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: get you nowhere, right, Yeah, I say, I'm going to 396 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: have some in my notes as well, and also like, 397 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: you know, my ex as a point to like when 398 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: he's like, I don't have to listen to this anymore, 399 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: you know, But at the part of the same in 400 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: for me as I'm like, I go to that place 401 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: where I'm like I don't feel like I have that 402 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: closure of the apology I've wanted, you know, and so 403 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: or deserved or whatever, and so it's like I'm like, 404 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: how do you not see this or you know, so 405 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: it's not where but that. I'm like, I know me too. 406 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I left my ex husband. First of all, 407 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,719 Speaker 1: it takes two to tango. I did a lot of 408 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: not nice things too, but he pushed me to them 409 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: and I I left him. So it's very easy for 410 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: him to say you destroyed the marriage, you did this, 411 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: And for two years I would say, no, I did 412 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: this because and you don't see things my way, and 413 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: I wanted that closure until I realized there is no 414 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: such thing as closure. It's more of an inside job, 415 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: like you have to make peace with it inside yourself. 416 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: Because no matter I posted this the other day, no 417 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: matter how well written the texts, no matter how logical 418 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: or rational, they're not going to see things our way, 419 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: like they're just not. We can't. Men are like children, 420 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: even the good ones. And the more you tell them 421 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: no it's yes, it's more to you tell them yes 422 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: it's no, and there's nothing we can say that they're 423 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: going to be like, oh okay, even if they did, 424 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: they can't hop in their time machine and change, you know, 425 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: whatever they did wrong. So I think it's really just 426 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: a matter of understanding that as much as you want 427 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: to have him like eat ship for what he did. 428 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: It serves no purpose anymore. Well here's that. Let me 429 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: just play devil's advocate, which I don't want to do, 430 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: but I do this when I ruminate in like fester 431 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: in my sadness. Um is, if you just said that statement, 432 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: then couldn't you just say the same thing, Well, I 433 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: cheated on you because you did this and because you 434 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't you know, you made me feel this way? That's 435 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: gas lighting? But isn't that kind of what you just 436 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: said though? Too? Like because because I said the same, 437 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: I've said the same thing. Well, I'm I'm angry and 438 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm shaming you because you treated on me. So but 439 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: isn't that like we were both isn't that kind of 440 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: the same thing? Yeah? Absolutely, But he's not gonna It's 441 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: not like you're going to say I'm doing this because 442 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: you're you cheated on me, and he's going to be like, okay, 443 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: go ahead, you know please, By all means, he's not 444 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: going to do that. Men are defensive and their whole 445 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: lives are um driven by their egos, whereas our lives 446 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: are really driven by anxiety and fear. So it's it's 447 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: like your anxiety fighting his ego and it just goes 448 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: in circles. But is it? But I mean, like, is 449 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: it okay for them to say that because we're saying 450 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: the same thing though, because it's like, well, I'm doing 451 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: this because you did this, and then he said, well, 452 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: I cheat on you because you were a naggy, controlling wife. 453 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: Your perspectives are arguing with each other and and your 454 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: perspective is very different from his. And so you're never 455 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: going to say, Okay, you cheated on me. You're right, 456 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: I nagged you too much on that Tuesday three months ago. 457 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: You're not going to say that, and he's gonna he's 458 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: not going to say that you're right. So both of 459 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: you are adding fuel to the fire when you should 460 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: kind of just be like, you know, backing off and 461 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: just following the parenting plan and live and let live. 462 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: Like he made his bed and he needs to lie 463 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: on it. He's forever going to be the guy that 464 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: couldn't keep it in his pants and ruined a happy 465 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: marriage and you're not. You're going to be the one 466 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: who moves on. So how do you walk away not 467 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: having that real closure and apology? I think it's you 468 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: have to have it with yourself. You have to be 469 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: strong enough, you have to find the strength inside of 470 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: yourself to say there is nothing in the world that 471 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: can change the situation, right, And so I'm choosing to 472 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: make the best out of the hand I've been dealt. 473 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: Is it the hand I wanted to play? Absolutely not, 474 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: But I have it, And now I have an opportunity 475 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: to change the course of my relationships and change how 476 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: I'm loved, and change the way my children view their 477 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: mom being treated. And you really just have to, you know, 478 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: want to. Once you accept it, I think that's all 479 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: the closure you need. Yeah, you mentioned uh, j Lo. 480 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting because so many people are like, well, 481 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: how is she healthy because she just moved right onto 482 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: then first of all, wrong like wrong, j Lo. Wrong, 483 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: But also we most of us are very confused as 484 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: to whether this is even real, right, Like I mean, 485 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to be real the seaway, Like 486 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: I keep sending it to my friend Brian Davis, who's 487 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: she's been on the show. She's a she's a sex 488 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: and love addict, and I'm I'm like, but look it, 489 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: and she's like, Janna, it's not real, this is in 490 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: first Like that's so I'm like, but like I believe 491 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: in love and I want love, and like, you know, 492 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: they they they've found each other again. Like I'm like 493 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: a big advocate for then hey, you know what if 494 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: it is real good for them, But like she hasn't 495 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: done the healing, so you know, like if you don't 496 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: heal your ship, it's just going to come out in 497 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: the next relationship. So unless she just wasn't that into 498 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: a rod because he's such a cheesy idiot, Like I 499 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: don't know, Like, but here's the here's the thing. I 500 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: saw this on Instagram because this is one of my 501 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: my big things that I've been fighting with myself is 502 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: can you heal while still while you know, being with 503 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: someone else. And I do think you can. Yeah, absolutely, 504 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: I think that if you're with someone who has also 505 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: committed to their own growth, that's the best relationship you 506 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: can be in. I think we're you know, people would say, 507 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: don't get into a relationship too quickly after a divorce. 508 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: I met my now husband two months later. Yeah, he 509 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: was a couple of years out of his marriage. I 510 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: was two months out of mine. But for a year 511 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: before that, in my marriage where we were sleeping in 512 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,479 Speaker 1: two separate rooms and miserable. I knew that, like, I 513 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: had work to do and I was going to do 514 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: it no matter what. And when I met my now husband, 515 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: I'm like, look like this is fresh for me and 516 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: it's going to be ugly and there's gonna be like 517 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: should I need to go through? And he was like, 518 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: I'm trust me. I'm working on my own stuff because 519 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: he came out of a really long marriage and had 520 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: his own stuff to work on, and so we're both 521 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: very committed to our growth. And that's when I think 522 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: it is safe to have a relationship after so soon 523 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: after a separation. But you also have to be really 524 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 1: aware of the fact that when you if you choose 525 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: somebody as a rebound, like j Lo and Ben, a 526 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: lot of times rebounds are just a way for you 527 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: to go back into familiar patterns, even if the relationship 528 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: was awful. Maybe there's something in Ben that is for me. 529 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: I think she likes to fix her upper you know. 530 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: A Rod was always a cheat. I've known him since 531 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: I threw his thirtieth birthday when I was a publicist 532 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: for the forty forty Club in New York City. Like 533 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. I remember, like he's there with his 534 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: wife and he's like looking at all these pointment was 535 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: um Anyway, I think she likes to fix her upper 536 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: and Ben has his own issues, so I think she's 537 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: somebody who deflects from her own stuff maybe and focuses 538 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: on the other person, which many people do. That it's 539 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: a motherly nurturing type of thing. But hey, he looks 540 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: like a rebound daddy if I've ever seen one. Like 541 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: good for her if it's working out, I know, But 542 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: I think that's also you know, because people will comment 543 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: on on my stuff too, and I'm like, man, I've 544 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: been unhappy for five years, and I'm like, I want to. 545 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: I want to be happy, and I want to I 546 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: have so I know I have so much work to do. 547 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: I know that, and I'm doing the work and I'm 548 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: going to therapy and talking to my therapist. But I'm 549 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: also like, I want to you know, if i'm if 550 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 1: I'm if I find that happiness in the healing, Like 551 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to be judged like oh you moved 552 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: on too fast, or Jenna, you're in the public eye, 553 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: You're going to be judged no matter what you I 554 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: hate being the comments like kill me, and I'm like 555 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: and so I'm like, okay, they're right, Like I need 556 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: to know. I'm like, why am I? Why am I 557 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: like basing my life and my love life off of 558 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: what people think that I'm doing or not doing. It's like, 559 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, Amanda, she lost her husband, and I'm like, Jesus, like, 560 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: let the woman be happy. People right, right, so you 561 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: can answers. There's no timeline for grief, like, and you're 562 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: gonna always I'm gonna always gonna grieve my divorce. There 563 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: will always be a piece that I'm gonna grieve that loss, 564 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: whether I'm happily married again. I believe if people aren't 565 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: paying your bills or taking care of your children, they 566 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 1: have no right. You know, nobody really has a right 567 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: to dictate what you do now or how you do it, 568 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: Like you have to do it in a way that 569 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: feels right for you. And it sucks to be in 570 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: the public eye. And you know, these angry people that 571 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: sit behind a keyboard on Instagram and like make judgments 572 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: on other people's lives. I get it too. And I'm 573 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: you know, eight hundred thousand followers less than you. So 574 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine, but it's it's something that you 575 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: really just you know. My publisher told me the other day, like, 576 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: don't read, don't read the reviews, don't read the comments, 577 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: like you know, cancel. Culture is real. People suck, but 578 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: opinions are like assholes and everybody's got one. So I'm 579 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: gonna someone will say something about you no matter what 580 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: you do. Like that's that's just how it is. I 581 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: know I want a approval, right and someone told me 582 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: I'll never get that, and that makes me angry. No, 583 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: they told me in one of my marketing meetings from 584 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: my book. They were like, just do you know of 585 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: all reviews are going to be negative. It's just science. 586 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: And I'm like what They're like, Yeah, these people won't 587 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: even read the book, they'll just negatively review you. I'm like, 588 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: oh cool, Like I'm gonna have to have like more 589 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: zolof to add it to the mix. Oh man, zolof. 590 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: I just switched to lexapro. That was my really, yeah, 591 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: it was all off. I gained like twenty pounds and 592 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 1: I was felt nothing. So then I moved to lexe Pro. Now, 593 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: I like, I still have anxiety attacks, but not to 594 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: the extent. Yeah, but it works for you know, different 595 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: for everybody. But I'm curious on how, because you are 596 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 1: so public and you are so open, does your ex 597 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: get upset with you for having this um like being 598 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: open about things that you talk about, because I think 599 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: that's a big you know, one of the reasons I 600 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: wanted to quit the show is because it's like, I 601 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: don't want that heat from the you know him or 602 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: an you know or his friends are being like, oh god, 603 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: she's playing the victim, and it's like, I'm just trying 604 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: to like find strength and to share my story and 605 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm not looking for I'm not trying to be victimized. 606 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not trying to victimize myself. I'm just 607 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: trying to you know, heal and talk about it. I 608 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: think there's so much healing and there's so much power 609 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: in in authenticity and sharing your story. But I have 610 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: become very mindful, um you know, whereas four years ago 611 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: I post, I'd be that girl that like post the 612 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: quote that you're like, oh no, what happened to her? 613 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: Like you know, waiting for someone to ask, But he 614 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: would obviously get very triggered by that, and over time, 615 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: as I realized that people are coming to me for 616 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: help and comfort. I never wanted to paint him in 617 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: a negative light despite our issues, out of respect for 618 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: my child and because that doesn't do anything to help anybody. 619 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: You know, I have a Facebook group where the rule 620 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: is very simple, like, we don't come here at event 621 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: and bash, like we're here for uplifting stuff. We have 622 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: to get through this, we don't have to pull each 623 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: other down into it. So I make a conscious effort 624 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: to really, if I'm talking about the end of my 625 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: marriage or what contributed to it, to talk about my 626 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: flaws and what I did wrong and what I messed up. 627 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: And you know, my ax also was very unhealed and 628 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: the two of us together were toxic, but that was 629 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: on me. I put myself in that relationship and state 630 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: in that situation. So I talked a lot about it 631 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: from my personal perspective, and my book is not going 632 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: to dive into the nitty gritty of him. It really 633 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: is everything through the lens of where I needed to 634 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: change and why the marriage was bad because of me. 635 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: Um So, you know, yeah, no, does he like that 636 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: I've become successful over the fact that we got divorced. 637 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: Absolutely not, but he also can't say that I don't 638 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: take the blame. Will blame is due in certain areas? Sure, Yeah, no, 639 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: I mean I think that's a good a good thing 640 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: because it's in this situation. It's like we could run 641 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: over them, probably with the truck, but like we have 642 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: our children that we're protecting, and I don't want them 643 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: reading those things. And it's also like, what's the point. 644 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: What's the point. It's not going to do anything I 645 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: don't like, like bad energy or bad karma, not confrontational 646 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: at all. So I'd rather move. Also, I'd really like 647 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: for my ex to meet somebody nice, So like I 648 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 1: don't want people to think that he's bad because he's not. 649 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: We were just bad together. So I you know, I 650 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: think it's always touchy when you're gonna put yourself out there. 651 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,479 Speaker 1: And again, like people are going to be unhappy no 652 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: matter what you say, like ex husbands or ex spouses. 653 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: I get d M all the time asking but what 654 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: did he actually do wrong that you were like, Okay, 655 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: that's it. I'll never share that. I just won't. Yeah, 656 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: that's a I get that one a lot too. And 657 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: it's like I I have my two kids I'm looking 658 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: up for and at the end of the day, it's like, 659 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: does it even matter anymore? It doesn't you have them, 660 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: And what matters is that you be the report in 661 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: the storm right now when you start? Are you co 662 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: parenting already? Yeah? And it's I think that's gonna be. 663 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: So I'm in Connecticut right now, film in a movie. 664 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: I'll be back next week and um, you know, we 665 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: we had this summer arrangement and now school schedule will 666 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: start and that's going to be I think that's when 667 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: it's really going to hit me, just like the you know, 668 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: the every Wednesday, every other weekend and um yeah, it's 669 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: just it's once I'm home and getting in that regular schedule, 670 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: I think it's really gonna I'm gonna have to do 671 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: some major healing around that and grind. Yeah, listen, it's 672 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: you have to. I wrote a whole um chapter in 673 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: my book about my first weekend without Bella and how 674 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: insane I drove myself. That's also I posted about it 675 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: this morning that that's what led me to calling my 676 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: doctor and being like I'm not okay, Like I can't 677 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: even pretend to be okay right now. And that's when 678 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: I went on anxiety medication. But you know there are 679 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: going to be first for everything. Now, first birthday without them, 680 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: or first somebody loses a tooth and you're not there 681 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: and you want to like just stab yourself in the heart. 682 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: But like it's the reality of parenting in pieces, and 683 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: as much as it sucks, it is much better than 684 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: forcing yourself to stay in a situation that would break 685 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,719 Speaker 1: you emotionally. So talk about the book. It's available for preorder. Um, 686 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about it. It's it's got like thirty chapters. 687 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: It's like every how to every first thing you're going 688 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: to encounter, how to pull yourself out of bed in 689 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: the morning, A lot of it has Um. I talk 690 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: about journaling a lot because that was very helpful for me, 691 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: just like I said, to write the anger text and 692 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: not send it, getting your feelings out on paper, like 693 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: it's like free therapy. Um. So it's called Mom's Moving On, 694 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: Real Life Advice for Conquering Divorce, co Parenting through Conflict, 695 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: and Becoming your Best Self, which you can pre order, 696 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: which I will be preordering right now. The I'm happy 697 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: to send you one, but thank thanks so much. And 698 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's like, really, I'm very open, 699 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: as you know I have, I wear my heart on 700 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: my sleeve, So I think it's like a really empowering, 701 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: like you've got this type of thing, while also honoring 702 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: that if you don't, it's okay too, because divorce is 703 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: shitty and so is co parenting. And in no way, 704 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: shape or form does my book promote like second marriage 705 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: as you're happily ever after. I actually told my publisher 706 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: I wouldn't write about getting remarried because I don't think 707 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: that that's what sets the tone for happy life after divorce. 708 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: I think it's really all about accepting yourself and you know, 709 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: coming to terms with who you are as an individual 710 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: and as a mother in this stage of your life, 711 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 1: and finding in our happiness, not finding it anywhere else. 712 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: I one thousand percent agree with to like, I just 713 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: want to be happy for me and not because I'm 714 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: with somebody else or you know, I'm dating. It's like, 715 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: I just want to be like I want that, I 716 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: want to be enough. You know from me, you are 717 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: preaching to the anxiously attachment style choir, Like I was 718 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: an anxious attachment person because I had daddy issues. I 719 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: didn't have a dad in my life who wanted me, 720 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: and so it was like, oh my god, you looked 721 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: at me. I love you, and I couldn't be that 722 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 1: person anymore, which was I was listen when I got separated. 723 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: I mean, the first thing was like all right, yeah, 724 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: booty call like for sure. And then I remember thinking, like, 725 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 1: I can't have a guy wake up in my house. 726 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: You know, all these guys were like coming out of 727 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: the woodwork, and I'm like, I can't be that person now, 728 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: Like I really can't be that person now. I have 729 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: to be okay alone. As much as I wanted to 730 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: say yes to that hot bartender or whatever, I couldn't 731 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: do it. I couldn't do it. And I forced myself yeah. 732 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: And then and then, you know, two months later, how 733 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: did you let your like how did you let that 734 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: love back? It back in Jenna? I knew I was 735 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: going to marry him from so he lived in so 736 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: it's a ridiculous story. He lived in my mom's building 737 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: here in Miami, and and I had moved to a 738 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: little town house with my daughter, and I'd pick her 739 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: up from school at two o'clock every day, and it 740 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: was like kind of lonely just going back to our townhouse, 741 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: the two of us. So I would go to my 742 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: mom's apartment and she lives on the water, and I 743 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: would walk Bella and her stroller around the marina and 744 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: like the for or four thirty. Every day, this like 745 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: hot guy would come with his daughter and and go 746 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: fishing off the pier. And I was like, you know, 747 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: I never saw a ring, but I was not going 748 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: to pick him up. But I just like looked at 749 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: him and remember thinking like, that's the guy. His physicality 750 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: was what I always envisioned myself with. He was tall 751 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: and dark and sexy hair and um, and I didn't nothing, 752 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, came of it. And then we were both 753 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: in our the same edition of our city's newspaper. He 754 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: was on the cover for something he had done in court. 755 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: He's a judge, and um, I was way back in 756 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: like the last page for something else. And he wrote 757 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: to me on LinkedIn and I but we were talking 758 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: on the phone before we went out, and I told 759 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: my best friend the morning of our first date, I 760 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: was like, I know, everything's going to be different after tonight. 761 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: And when you meet someone that you connect with in 762 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: the way that you were never even able to connect 763 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 1: with in your marriage, no matter how much you loved 764 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: your ex husband, like I loved my ex husband, but 765 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: we really just didn't connect on a lot of levels. 766 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: It was almost like I found like home, like I 767 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: like and it's been like a sigh of relief every 768 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: day since. Like it really is a comfortable, almost like 769 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: we've known each other in our past life kind of thing. 770 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: I love that, and I'm just I'm happy that you 771 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: found your healing, but also you know, found that person 772 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: that and he gives me my space to heal, like good, 773 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,439 Speaker 1: he gives me my like I'm in there. I spend 774 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: more money on therapy than anything else between me and 775 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: my daughter. And also he's where I used to take 776 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: out my stress, Like I used to ignore my stress 777 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,919 Speaker 1: and anxiety by being like pay attention to me. Now 778 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm I'm very clear, Like I'll text him 779 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: before he gets home from work and I'll be like, 780 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: I need to not talk to anybody tonight. It's not you, 781 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 1: it's me. I'm triggered by whatever. Like give me my space. 782 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: And he's really good about that too well, And that's 783 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: that's amazing too, because it's like that shows you and 784 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: that's kind of I'm like, I'm gonna pat myself on 785 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: the back too. I usually do not like being alone, 786 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: but like when I'm home, friends you know, are like, hey, 787 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna come over, and like, I honestly like 788 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: I want to be alone, and I just want time 789 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: and my thoughts. And it's like, holy crap, Like that 790 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: was big for me to realize too, that you know 791 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: I'm slowly heal. Yeah, yeah, for me, it took so 792 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: much time, Are you kidding? I had never been single 793 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: in my life, and it took I was so alone 794 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: in my marriage that I in the last year of 795 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: my marriage, I felt like I just was single and 796 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: I was so lonely that I got comfortable in that 797 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: loneliness and that being alone. So I feel like I've 798 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: worked so hard to be okay alone that when I 799 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: need it, I need it and nothing can compromise that. Well, Michelle, 800 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: I just like I appreciate you coming on and just 801 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: being so open and and thank you for being a 802 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: resource to me and so many other women and men 803 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: that you know need need your help. So thank you 804 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: for having me. I'm glad I worked out. Where can 805 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: my listeners find you if they haven't already. I'm on 806 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: Instagram at the Michelle dem cy um. My website is 807 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: Mom's Moving On dot com podcast is Mom's Moving On, 808 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: which I would love to have you on when you're yes, Um, everyone, 809 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: I told you my d MS were like have Janna, 810 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,959 Speaker 1: and I'm like, sure, let me just go scoop her up. Um, 811 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: and I have a membership community that's free for women. 812 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm a divorce coach, but if if the coaching price 813 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: point is out of somebody's reach, I don't want anybody 814 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: to go without the support that they need. So I 815 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: do have a membership community that women can join for 816 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: free and they have access tom are my private Facebook 817 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: group and Q and as with me and um. The 818 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: book Mom's Moving On is available on Amazon, Barnes and 819 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: Noble and a bunch of other places. Now, amazing, Well, 820 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm so excited for you and I will be sliding 821 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: into your d M thanking you and also asking if 822 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: you can coach me. So you got it? Okay, perfect, 823 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: Thanks Michelle, I appreciate you of course. Bye bye. Okay, Well, 824 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: that was an amazing conversation with Michelle. Uh, and I 825 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: guess the underlying or I don't know I don't even 826 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: want to say underlying overlying theme. I don't know, but 827 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: um that it's all going to be okay, and in 828 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: one year, in one day, tomorrow, the next week, Like 829 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: just keep on keep on moving and um healing and 830 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: do the work, um even though it's really freaking hard, 831 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: but um, and that's with everything in life. Just to 832 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: continue to do the work, continue to grow, and continue 833 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: to be the person that you want to be. And UM, 834 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: I'm here doing the work with you. So see you 835 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: next week.