WEBVTT - Is It About Race, or Racism? 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.720 Good morning, Peepsen, and welcome to bookf Daily with Me 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:19.119 Your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.480 I am very excited for you to hear today's conversation 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:29.960 with Keith Boykin, author, national political commentator, producer, filmmaker. His 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.440 latest book, Why Does Everything Have To Be About Race? 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:39.800 Is on stands now and you know, we get into 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:48.480 a conversation that offers thoughts and suggestions as well as 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:54.360 a critique on how we have had conversations around race 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.760 and racism. And in this book he debunks twenty five 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:03.560 of the most top sick racist arguments, breaking them down 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.959 one by one, everything from critical race theory to affirmative 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:12.640 action and other issues, and gives the logic behind how 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.240 we should respond. And one of the questions that I 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.040 ask Keith in this interview is, well, if we're never 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.679 going to get back you know, the thirty percent, like, 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.640 who is this book for and how how should it 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.520 be used? Because I think that what we know is 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.680 that when we have issues of racism, right, whether it's 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.760 the killing, you know, murder of a black person, the 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:45.480 rhetoric around immigration, people either shut down or they go 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.360 into their corners right coming out ready to swing, And 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.440 so I think that Keith's new book gives a lot 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.800 of great perspective as well as tools to add to 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:02.080 your toolkit. The book is why does Everything have to 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:07.000 be about Race? That conversation with Keith Boykin is coming 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:15.320 up next, folks. I am very happy to welcome TOKF 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:22.160 Daily national political commentator, author, executive producer, all around bad 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:28.079 ass Keith Boykin, whose latest book, Why Does Everything Have 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.520 to Be About Race? Twenty five Arguments that Won't Go Away? 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:38.320 Is out this week. Keith, first of all, wonderful, Like 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.519 that is the question, that is the question on top 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:46.480 of questions. I think that people on the left pose 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.040 it as why does everything have to be about race? 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.560 Like why can't you know, people on the right have 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.680 a conversation that doesn't come back to racism, that doesn't 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.480 come back to white supremacy. Then you have people on 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.280 the right that say, why does everything have to be 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.000 about race? Because I think any conversation that you have 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.520 that is about equity and justice for them. Why can't 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.120 we just have these neutral, you know, non racial conversations. 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.919 Why was it important for you to write this book 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:14.520 right now? 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.280 Wow? Yes, thank you? Danielle. I'm glad you framed the 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.320 question that way, because it is a question that comes 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.400 from both the left and the right. From the right, obviously, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.040 it's more of a perspective of why do we keep 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.000 talking about this race issue, Let's get beyond it. From 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.000 the left, I think it's more of a question of 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:36.160 how do we create a race neutral, progressive society. Let's 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.640 not talk about race, let's focus on economic issues. And 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.160 I think that both of those are problematic because America 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.840 was built on race. It was built on racism, to 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:49.320 be honest, and it's important to acknowledge that it's becoming 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.360 increasingly important because we were living in an era where 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.680 there is a great deal of denial about that racial history, 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:01.600 where presidential candidates and people in political prominence and positions 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.600 of power and influence are trying to erase black history, 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:10.280 trying to deny the existence of continued black oppression, trying 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.880 to center a white victimhood, and trying to gaslight us 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.800 all about what's really taking place. So the reason why 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.120 everybody everything is about racist is because white society made 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.440 everything about race. They created a society where we had 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.840 no choice but to uh to see ourselves because of 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.720 our of our race. And I, you know, I do 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.120 this test in the book. I won't call it test. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.000 Maybe it's a question. I guess it's probably a better 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:37.960 way to say it. Where I ask people, I tell 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.839 them to do a Google search. Look for Just do 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.719 a simple Google Google search, look for the history of 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:49.160 racism in fill in the blank. Whatever topic you're interested in. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.719 It could be hockey, it could be homemaking, it could 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:57.400 be chemistry, it could be whatever it is you're interested in. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.520 Just do look up that the history of racism in 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.880 that field that you're interested in, and you will find 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.800 that racism has had an impact on every single element 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.080 of our lives, of our lives. And that's really the 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.799 sad state of affairs that black people and other people 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.600 of color have been dealing with for centuries without acknowledgement. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.120 Do you think that there is a different framing or 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.480 messaging that we should have in terms of basically saying, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.200 is everything about race or is everything about racism? Right? 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.160 Does everything go back to racism in this country as 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.640 opposed to race being this made up construct as a 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:42.280 way to compartmentalize, silo and dehumanize black people and then 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:43.360 other people of color. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.400 Well, yeah, that's exactly right, because race, as we know, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.760 is a social construct, and to social construct that white 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.600 people invented hundreds of years ago for the purpose of 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.919 creating this segregated, racially privileged society, for the purpose to 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:05.760 of peeling off oppressed, poor white people and associating them 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:13.719 with the white privileged colonizer class, the white privileged planter class, 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:18.200 if you will, and when their economic interests were probably 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.599 more aligned with the poor black and brown people who 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.400 were in a similar boat that they were. But by 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.440 creating this thing called whiteness, they were able to allow 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.400 white people, even who don't have anything, you know, a 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.400 pot to pissen or a window throw it out of, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.960 to make them feel like they have this sort of 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.560 investment in whiteness too. I've talked about this sort of 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:46.720 property right in whiteness that people have written about, including 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.080 my former law professor Derek Bell at Harvard Law School, 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.240 this idea that even poor white people get some benefits 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:57.760 of benefit or privileged because of their whiteness. And part 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.960 of that privilege means that they don't have to talk 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.839 about it or acknowledge it, because once you acknowledge it, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.039 then it becomes this zort of burden. But if you 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.240 can just sort of carry on throughout your life and 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.600 pretend that it doesn't exist, and you put the burden 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.280 on everyone else and make them prove that they're the 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.200 ones who are being oppressed when you're actually the one 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.280 doing theress pressing, or you're the one who benefits from it. 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.239 You know, I think that one is so necessary about 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:29.000 your book right now, is one. There are these themes, right, 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:34.000 this theme of you know, black people and other people 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.840 of color, we're the ones that have made up racism. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.040 Everything isn't as bad as they say it is. All 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:45.360 they do is complain, right, All they want is a handout. Yeah, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.080 And the whole point I think about it just very clearly, 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.880 and I forget the name. You probably remember the white 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.160 professor many many decades ago who asked the question as 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.680 she's explaining racism in our class, and says, to the 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.040 white people in the class, raise your hand if you 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.920 would want to be black, m right, just raise your 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.320 hand if you would want to be black in this country, 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.240 given everything that you've seen, you've heard, and blah blah. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.559 Not one person, right, and so not one white person 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.840 raised their hand and so there is this thing where 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:26.920 they absolutely know that racism exists because when asked basic questions, 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:32.400 the contortionism that they do to have it be that 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.640 we're making this up in our heads. And I'm like, 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.960 how could every group be making this up? And the 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.480 reason why I say that your book is necessary is 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:45.000 because absent curriculum right that is being gutted in places 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:50.160 like Florida and Texas and other places. What do you 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:57.679 believe happens, Keith if Republicans and the MAGA supremists are 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:04.800 successful in their race a black history, black contribution, diversity, equity, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.600 and inclusion, and the list goes on. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.760 That's a great point. And I like the way you 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.040 framed that one too, because the example I always point to, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.440 and I use this in the book is the example 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.200 from Little House in the Prairie. In nineteen seventy seven, 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.280 there was a TV episode where Todd Bridges played the 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:28.240 role of a young black boy whose father had been 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.960 killed and he was living with the Ingles family, and 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.040 one day he gets in trouble at school and he 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:40.200 comes back home and Charles the fall there figure asks 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.760 why did you do that? And he says, because the 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.880 truth is that I'm black and being black is problematic 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.320 in the society. And then he asked Charles w He says, 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.400 would you rather be black and live to be one 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:56.480 hundred or white and live to be fifty? And we 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.880 all know they answer that question, and Charles Ingles doesn't 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.040 answer the questions, just kind of walks out, you know, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.040 Michael Landing's character just kind of walks out. But you know, 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.520 the reality is that most people who are white wouldn't 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.400 want to trade places with us because even though they 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.080 gas light us and pretend like racism doesn't exist. They 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.160 wouldn't want to be black when they're pulled over by 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.440 the police. They love that white privilege. They wouldn't want 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.359 to be black when they try to get a taxicab 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.920 in New York City or a major city and they 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:21.480 know that it would be harder for them to do so. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.440 They wouldn't want to be black when they walk into 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.640 a department store and would have to be fouled. They 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.640 wouldn't want to be black or even have a black 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.760 sounding name when they apply for a job and know 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.520 that that might have a negative impact on their ability 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.679 to get hired. They wouldn't want to be black when 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:40.440 they go to a doctor, and the doctor is white 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.520 and is likely to see them differently and likely not 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.520 to offer them the same pain medicine that a white 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.240 patient would receive. You know, they wouldn't want to be black, 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.640 certainly when they go to sell their home, because we 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.360 know from all the documented evidence that black people who 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.839 try to sell their homes find their home praise at 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.920 lower values than when white people try to sell the 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.760 exact same home. There is a privilege, a benefit, a 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.959 financial benefit, and a property right in their whiteness, and 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:13.720 they don't want to They don't want to give that up. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.320 So to answer your question, you know, is that they're 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.520 trying to turn back the clock, Daniel. They want us 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.200 to go back to that point in the past where 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.720 we had no rights, not just African Americans, but people 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.240 of color in general, LGBTQOA people and women who are 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.079 already losing their rights in terms of reproductive rights. They 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:33.839 want to go back to that time in the past. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.600 That's what MAGA means. Make America great again means that 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.319 there were some point in the past when they think 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.040 that America was great and for those of us who 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.160 were black are people who are a part of marginalized communities. 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.280 There was never a time that America is better for 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.840 us because we didn't have any rights. You know, they 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.040 want to go back to the nineteen fifties when when 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.720 women couldn't could Yes, women could vote technically, but they 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.400 couldn't even open a credit card without without their husband's consent. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.560 You know, people couldn't vote in a number of cities 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.440 and number of states across the country, even though they 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.960 legally had their right to do so. There are all 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.959 kinds of restrictions against them where LGBTQA people were forced 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.400 to live in the closets and couldn't be open about 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.840 who they were and their identities, and immigrants were unwelcome 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.400 unless they were white European. So that's the America they love, 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.800 that they cherish and they want to restore, and that's 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:24.880 what they're trying to do. So the result of that 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.000 shift is they want to erase all the people who've 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.520 come in the past few decades and tried to change 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.880 America into a better place that's more welcoming. They wanted 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.160 to go back to that unwelcoming place where they can 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.680 say racist, sex is homophobic, vow bigoted things all the 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.199 time without consequences. They don't have to be challenged on 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.000 it by somebody in their in their office or one 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.000 of their classmates or co workers. 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.800 I guess what I find terrifying. You lay it all 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.959 out right, and you bust these myths, you know, in 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:05.440 your book. And yet Keith, right now, there is a 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.520 faction of black men that want to vote for Donald Trump, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.960 that are aligned with Donald Trump. And Trump isn't that 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:18.920 he's been able to peel off this sect of people. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:23.600 And I'm just curious from you, you know, as a 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.679 black man, like, what does that mean? 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:27.040 Right? 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.640 But do we in the media pay too much attention 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.400 to it or do we not pay enough attention to 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:38.720 the peel off? What could possibly be attractive to black 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:39.960 men about Donald Trump? 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:48.600 Well, that's a very astute observation that I think requires 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.800 us to look back in history and in order to 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.000 understand the present. There have always been black people who 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.880 have aligned themselves with their oppressors. This is true and 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.440 every group of marginalized people in fact that there were 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.800 always people who aligned themselves with their oppressors. There are 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.840 always sheep who like the wolves because they somehow, somehow 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.080 feel like the wolves will protect them and they feel 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.559 like they're going to be a part of that group, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.360 and it's never been a productive, safe strategy for any 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.480 group of people. So if you look back at you know, 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.080 I've been for the past few months, I've been looking 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:31.400 at this documentary on BBC called The History of Africa 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.920 was you Know Badali, And it's fascinating story about how 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:42.480 African cultures evolved over centuries. And the reality is that 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.240 a lot of the way that European colonists were able 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:52.040 to take over parts of Africa is because black people 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:59.040 were paid to sell out other black people. And we're 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.960 seeing the same thing now. There are some people who 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.480 don't necessarily align themselves with the interests of black people 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.960 in general. That's one category. Second category of people who 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:15.480 feel like they don't really want everyone to be free. 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.360 They just want some people to be free. They want 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.360 black men to be free in particular, and they're not 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:26.200 usually interested in liberating black women or black lgbt q 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.480 A people or black people who come from different backgrounds 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.920 and experiences. They're not interested in any of that. They're 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:38.320 interested in replicating a form of white male privilege, but 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.640 putting it into black contexts so that they have the 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.000 same privilege that white men have over their white women. 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.400 Why can't we as black men, assistant and heterosexual black 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.960 men have the same privileges that assistants or heterosexual white 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.520 men do. I mean, you know, that's really popular in 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.560 some cultures. You know, it's interesting because a lot of 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.920 people talk about rap and hip hop. Funny to me 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.120 is that Donald Trump is the embodiment of everything that 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.440 rap and hip hop uh is as well, and they 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.760 and they all the negative aspects. I should say that 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.200 that people ascribe to rap and hip hop and and 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.840 and nobody ever knows and nobody ever really talks about that. 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.760 You know, Donald Trump lives in this gold plated penthouse 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.720 in Manhattan on Fifth Avenue. He's got this model wife 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.200 who's been a who's post Newton magazines before. He's got 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:35.080 all these charges against him. Uh, he's reckless about the 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.400 law and completely uh law not law abiding, but law breaking. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:39.880 Uh. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.680 And these are all the stereotypes associated with black black 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.600 men in particularly Yeah, black men, you know, they just 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.400 they're not interested in being serious people. They just want 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.200 to do all these all these things. But some black 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.400 men apparently do want those things and not all fortunately, 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.720 and and so the reality is I'm not I'm not. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.280 I'm not alarm by it or surprised by it, because 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.080 this is a trend that's been going on for eternity, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.400 since eternity. But I also think it's important to put 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.040 it in context because the overwhelming majority of black men 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.639 do not support Donald Trump. It's maybe it ends up 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.440 being eighty percent or eighty five percent instead of ninety 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.240 five percent as it is with black women, but that's 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.639 still larger than it is in any other group of people. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.520 You know, my mom lives in Texas. Whenever I go 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.720 to Texas, I'm always suspicious of people in Texas. You know, 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:35.800 my mom is very friendly with everybody, and I get 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.400 that because she lives there and all that, But I'm 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.359 not as friendly and trusting of white people in the South, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.880 and white people, you know, who I feel like would 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.120 take away my rights in a moment's notice. And people 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.400 who voted for Donald Trump and both of his elections 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.480 and didn't vote for Barack Obama. So yeah, there's a 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.560 lot of people who want that privilege for themselves and 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.080 don't want it for any other people. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.040 And I'm glad that you put it in the context 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.320 of Okay, so if it's eighty five percent as opposed 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.080 to ninety five percent, right, so that we can get 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:10.200 a better picture. Because the tale that the Republican Party spins, right, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.560 is about lifting up, like you said, all of the 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.720 negative attributes that Donald Trump has and saying like, look, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.919 he should be your king, because this is what you 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.760 all are about. And I'm just like, how could you 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:29.560 be like even more insulting, even more demeaning, right even 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.080 to the people who quote unquote support you and want 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.560 to wear the Blacks for Trump t shirt, right, Like, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.560 you know, whatever that is about, I want to pivot 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.960 to another piece of your book where you are talking about, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.480 you know, the biggest boogeyman that we I don't think 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.840 as Democrats actually faced in the way that it should 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.359 have been faced, which is critical race theory. I think 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.560 that when critical race theory was made up by the 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:04.480 republic plins use very successfully to turn Virginia blue right 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:10.720 couched in this idea of parental choice, that Democrats went 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.600 on the defensive and said, well, we don't teach that. 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.679 That's not what we're doing, right, And it was always 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:24.360 about negating as opposed to posing better questions, right, talk 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.920 to us about that piece in your book and why 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.359 it's something that we actually need to be pulling the 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:33.760 wool from our eyes about. 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:36.959 Yeah, we've talked about this before, and I think it's 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.440 an interesting concept that you're bringing up, because I don't 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.720 necessarily think it's defensive to speak the facts, the factual 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.800 truth that it's not taught in schools, but you know 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.560 that's the misrepresentation that it is. But I do agree 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:55.760 with you that it is important to understand what it 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.640 is and to speak affirmatively about that and to talk 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.879 about why it's important to st our history. But you know, 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.439 the way I positioned it in my book is I 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.560 explained what critical race theory is. I was there, and 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.280 I studied critical race theory in law school back in 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.800 the nineteen eighties and nineties, so I'm very familiar with it, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.600 and I know the scholars who started it. But I 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.560 also know that what is being taught in classrooms is 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.600 not critical race theories. For the most part, it's American history. 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.880 And people are so afraid of American history that they've 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.800 managed to anything that they think is negative about American history. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:37.880 They've managed to construct some sort of other category called 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.159 critical race theory. No, this is true. Yes, America was 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:46.280 founded on racism. Yes, slavery was a part, not just 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.280 a part, It was a critical component of the success 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.199 of America. Yes, the Constitution did count black people as 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.680 three fifths of a citizen. Yes, the Supreme Court did 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.520 say that black people, even if they weren't slaves, don't 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.600 have the right to be citizens in this country. Yes, 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.720 even after the Civil War, the Supreme Court came back 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.520 and said that black people could be segregated racially by 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.760 their government, and that was okay because it was separate 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:18.200 and and and separate but equal. Yes, our country has 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:24.400 had thousands and thousands of extra judicial murders of lynchings 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.720 of black people after the Civil War in order to 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.840 try to keep us in line. Yes, our government policies 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:36.199 were created with the purpose of excluding black people. That history. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.720 That history wasn't something that black people just made up. 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.359 It's not something that you know that that people are 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.840 just kind of constructing the whole thin cloth. It's it's 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:48.959 the reality. You know. I heard Donald Trump the other 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.879 day talking about how we want to preserve Confederate monuments 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:54.600 and why are they trying to change the names of 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.200 these mind of these forts and all this stuff because 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.480 the World Wars were fought out of these forts. First 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:01.680 of all, the world wars. 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:03.840 Were not follow of course, of course. 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:08.159 But secondly, why are you holding on to these names? 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.280 Why is are these people who Republicans of the Party 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.080 of Lincoln allegedly holding onto names of Confederate traders, racist 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:17.840 Confederate traders who fought against Lincoln, who killed Lincoln. How 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.879 is that? How is that perpetuating the Party of Lincoln. 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.440 It's perpetuating the antithesis of Lincoln. Because this whole part 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.000 of this whole this shift, that Southern strategy and then 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.840 the shift from the parties in the nineteen sixties and 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.359 seventies that Republicans hate to acknowledge, but there's a long 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:40.159 history that needs to be discussed. Thomas Jefferson, Yes, he 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.440 deserves the memorial because he wrote the Declaration of Independence, 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:45.520 but we also need to acknowledge it he was enslaver 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.000 with hundreds of slaves, and he raped his black slaves. 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:52.600 You also need you acknoweds that Thomas Jefferson wasn't in 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:57.600 that George Washington wasn't enslaver and literally used the teeth 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:01.399 of his slaves, enslaved people to put in his own mouth. 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:05.240 You know, there's a whole history. Even Abraham Lincoln was 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.600 a white supremacist. Yes, he signed the Emancipation Proclamation and 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:10.840 pushed to the thirtie Amendment, but he made it very 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.200 clear in his remarks repeatedly that he believed that there 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.560 was a superior race, and that was the white race. 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.200 There's a whole, long history. They don't want to talk 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:23.760 about that, even a lot of the Democratic heroes of 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.440 the twentieth century. You know, until we get to the 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:30.800 nineteen sixties, what both parties had in common, in my opinion, 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:34.480 was that they were both racist, overtly racist. You know, 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:37.399 they made appeals every now and then to try to 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:40.320 be less racist, to be more inclusive, but they were 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:44.320 both overtly racist. When the Social Security Act was signed 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:49.000 in nineteen thirty five, it did not include most black 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:52.280 people because most black people were agriculture and domestic workers, 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.560 and they were purposely excluded because the southern Dixiecrats didn't 0:23:55.600 --> 0:24:01.520 want them included. You know, when Lyndenhnsen was a notorious 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:07.480 racist who used the N word repeatedly until he had 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:12.560 a change of heart and he became this civil rights champion, 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.960 his hero in the nineteen sixties. Even people who Republicans 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:22.280