1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Good morning, Peepsen, and welcome to bookf Daily with Me 2 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: Your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: I am very excited for you to hear today's conversation 4 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: with Keith Boykin, author, national political commentator, producer, filmmaker. His 5 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: latest book, Why Does Everything Have To Be About Race? 6 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Is on stands now and you know, we get into 7 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: a conversation that offers thoughts and suggestions as well as 8 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: a critique on how we have had conversations around race 9 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: and racism. And in this book he debunks twenty five 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: of the most top sick racist arguments, breaking them down 11 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: one by one, everything from critical race theory to affirmative 12 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: action and other issues, and gives the logic behind how 13 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: we should respond. And one of the questions that I 14 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: ask Keith in this interview is, well, if we're never 15 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: going to get back you know, the thirty percent, like, 16 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: who is this book for and how how should it 17 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: be used? Because I think that what we know is 18 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: that when we have issues of racism, right, whether it's 19 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: the killing, you know, murder of a black person, the 20 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: rhetoric around immigration, people either shut down or they go 21 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: into their corners right coming out ready to swing, And 22 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: so I think that Keith's new book gives a lot 23 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: of great perspective as well as tools to add to 24 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: your toolkit. The book is why does Everything have to 25 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: be about Race? That conversation with Keith Boykin is coming 26 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: up next, folks. I am very happy to welcome TOKF 27 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: Daily national political commentator, author, executive producer, all around bad 28 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: ass Keith Boykin, whose latest book, Why Does Everything Have 29 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: to Be About Race? Twenty five Arguments that Won't Go Away? 30 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: Is out this week. Keith, first of all, wonderful, Like 31 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: that is the question, that is the question on top 32 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: of questions. I think that people on the left pose 33 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: it as why does everything have to be about race? 34 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: Like why can't you know, people on the right have 35 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: a conversation that doesn't come back to racism, that doesn't 36 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: come back to white supremacy. Then you have people on 37 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: the right that say, why does everything have to be 38 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: about race? Because I think any conversation that you have 39 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: that is about equity and justice for them. Why can't 40 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: we just have these neutral, you know, non racial conversations. 41 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: Why was it important for you to write this book 42 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: right now? 43 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: Wow? Yes, thank you? Danielle. I'm glad you framed the 44 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: question that way, because it is a question that comes 45 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: from both the left and the right. From the right, obviously, 46 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: it's more of a perspective of why do we keep 47 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: talking about this race issue, Let's get beyond it. From 48 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: the left, I think it's more of a question of 49 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: how do we create a race neutral, progressive society. Let's 50 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: not talk about race, let's focus on economic issues. And 51 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: I think that both of those are problematic because America 52 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: was built on race. It was built on racism, to 53 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: be honest, and it's important to acknowledge that it's becoming 54 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: increasingly important because we were living in an era where 55 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: there is a great deal of denial about that racial history, 56 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: where presidential candidates and people in political prominence and positions 57 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: of power and influence are trying to erase black history, 58 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: trying to deny the existence of continued black oppression, trying 59 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: to center a white victimhood, and trying to gaslight us 60 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: all about what's really taking place. So the reason why 61 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: everybody everything is about racist is because white society made 62 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: everything about race. They created a society where we had 63 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 2: no choice but to uh to see ourselves because of 64 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: our of our race. And I, you know, I do 65 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: this test in the book. I won't call it test. 66 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: Maybe it's a question. I guess it's probably a better 67 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: way to say it. Where I ask people, I tell 68 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: them to do a Google search. Look for Just do 69 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: a simple Google Google search, look for the history of 70 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: racism in fill in the blank. Whatever topic you're interested in. 71 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 2: It could be hockey, it could be homemaking, it could 72 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: be chemistry, it could be whatever it is you're interested in. 73 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: Just do look up that the history of racism in 74 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: that field that you're interested in, and you will find 75 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: that racism has had an impact on every single element 76 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: of our lives, of our lives. And that's really the 77 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 2: sad state of affairs that black people and other people 78 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: of color have been dealing with for centuries without acknowledgement. 79 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: Do you think that there is a different framing or 80 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: messaging that we should have in terms of basically saying, 81 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: is everything about race or is everything about racism? Right? 82 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: Does everything go back to racism in this country as 83 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: opposed to race being this made up construct as a 84 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: way to compartmentalize, silo and dehumanize black people and then 85 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: other people of color. 86 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's exactly right, because race, as we know, 87 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: is a social construct, and to social construct that white 88 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: people invented hundreds of years ago for the purpose of 89 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: creating this segregated, racially privileged society, for the purpose to 90 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: of peeling off oppressed, poor white people and associating them 91 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: with the white privileged colonizer class, the white privileged planter class, 92 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: if you will, and when their economic interests were probably 93 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: more aligned with the poor black and brown people who 94 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: were in a similar boat that they were. But by 95 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: creating this thing called whiteness, they were able to allow 96 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: white people, even who don't have anything, you know, a 97 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: pot to pissen or a window throw it out of, 98 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: to make them feel like they have this sort of 99 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: investment in whiteness too. I've talked about this sort of 100 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: property right in whiteness that people have written about, including 101 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: my former law professor Derek Bell at Harvard Law School, 102 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: this idea that even poor white people get some benefits 103 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: of benefit or privileged because of their whiteness. And part 104 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: of that privilege means that they don't have to talk 105 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 2: about it or acknowledge it, because once you acknowledge it, 106 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: then it becomes this zort of burden. But if you 107 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: can just sort of carry on throughout your life and 108 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: pretend that it doesn't exist, and you put the burden 109 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: on everyone else and make them prove that they're the 110 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: ones who are being oppressed when you're actually the one 111 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: doing theress pressing, or you're the one who benefits from it. 112 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: You know, I think that one is so necessary about 113 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: your book right now, is one. There are these themes, right, 114 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: this theme of you know, black people and other people 115 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: of color, we're the ones that have made up racism. 116 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: Everything isn't as bad as they say it is. All 117 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: they do is complain, right, All they want is a handout. Yeah, 118 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: And the whole point I think about it just very clearly, 119 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: and I forget the name. You probably remember the white 120 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: professor many many decades ago who asked the question as 121 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: she's explaining racism in our class, and says, to the 122 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: white people in the class, raise your hand if you 123 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: would want to be black, m right, just raise your 124 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: hand if you would want to be black in this country, 125 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: given everything that you've seen, you've heard, and blah blah. 126 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,559 Speaker 1: Not one person, right, and so not one white person 127 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: raised their hand and so there is this thing where 128 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: they absolutely know that racism exists because when asked basic questions, 129 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: the contortionism that they do to have it be that 130 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: we're making this up in our heads. And I'm like, 131 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: how could every group be making this up? And the 132 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: reason why I say that your book is necessary is 133 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: because absent curriculum right that is being gutted in places 134 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: like Florida and Texas and other places. What do you 135 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: believe happens, Keith if Republicans and the MAGA supremists are 136 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: successful in their race a black history, black contribution, diversity, equity, 137 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: and inclusion, and the list goes on. 138 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: That's a great point. And I like the way you 139 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: framed that one too, because the example I always point to, 140 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: and I use this in the book is the example 141 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: from Little House in the Prairie. In nineteen seventy seven, 142 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: there was a TV episode where Todd Bridges played the 143 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: role of a young black boy whose father had been 144 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: killed and he was living with the Ingles family, and 145 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: one day he gets in trouble at school and he 146 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: comes back home and Charles the fall there figure asks 147 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: why did you do that? And he says, because the 148 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: truth is that I'm black and being black is problematic 149 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: in the society. And then he asked Charles w He says, 150 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: would you rather be black and live to be one 151 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: hundred or white and live to be fifty? And we 152 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: all know they answer that question, and Charles Ingles doesn't 153 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: answer the questions, just kind of walks out, you know, 154 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: Michael Landing's character just kind of walks out. But you know, 155 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: the reality is that most people who are white wouldn't 156 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: want to trade places with us because even though they 157 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 2: gas light us and pretend like racism doesn't exist. They 158 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: wouldn't want to be black when they're pulled over by 159 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: the police. They love that white privilege. They wouldn't want 160 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,359 Speaker 2: to be black when they try to get a taxicab 161 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: in New York City or a major city and they 162 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: know that it would be harder for them to do so. 163 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: They wouldn't want to be black when they walk into 164 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: a department store and would have to be fouled. They 165 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: wouldn't want to be black or even have a black 166 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: sounding name when they apply for a job and know 167 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 2: that that might have a negative impact on their ability 168 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 2: to get hired. They wouldn't want to be black when 169 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: they go to a doctor, and the doctor is white 170 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: and is likely to see them differently and likely not 171 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: to offer them the same pain medicine that a white 172 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: patient would receive. You know, they wouldn't want to be black, 173 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: certainly when they go to sell their home, because we 174 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: know from all the documented evidence that black people who 175 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 2: try to sell their homes find their home praise at 176 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: lower values than when white people try to sell the 177 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: exact same home. There is a privilege, a benefit, a 178 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 2: financial benefit, and a property right in their whiteness, and 179 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: they don't want to They don't want to give that up. 180 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: So to answer your question, you know, is that they're 181 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: trying to turn back the clock, Daniel. They want us 182 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: to go back to that point in the past where 183 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: we had no rights, not just African Americans, but people 184 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: of color in general, LGBTQOA people and women who are 185 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: already losing their rights in terms of reproductive rights. They 186 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 2: want to go back to that time in the past. 187 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: That's what MAGA means. Make America great again means that 188 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 2: there were some point in the past when they think 189 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: that America was great and for those of us who 190 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: were black are people who are a part of marginalized communities. 191 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: There was never a time that America is better for 192 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: us because we didn't have any rights. You know, they 193 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: want to go back to the nineteen fifties when when 194 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: women couldn't could Yes, women could vote technically, but they 195 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: couldn't even open a credit card without without their husband's consent. 196 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 2: You know, people couldn't vote in a number of cities 197 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: and number of states across the country, even though they 198 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: legally had their right to do so. There are all 199 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 2: kinds of restrictions against them where LGBTQA people were forced 200 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: to live in the closets and couldn't be open about 201 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: who they were and their identities, and immigrants were unwelcome 202 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: unless they were white European. So that's the America they love, 203 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: that they cherish and they want to restore, and that's 204 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: what they're trying to do. So the result of that 205 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: shift is they want to erase all the people who've 206 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: come in the past few decades and tried to change 207 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: America into a better place that's more welcoming. They wanted 208 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: to go back to that unwelcoming place where they can 209 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: say racist, sex is homophobic, vow bigoted things all the 210 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 2: time without consequences. They don't have to be challenged on 211 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: it by somebody in their in their office or one 212 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: of their classmates or co workers. 213 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: I guess what I find terrifying. You lay it all 214 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: out right, and you bust these myths, you know, in 215 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: your book. And yet Keith, right now, there is a 216 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: faction of black men that want to vote for Donald Trump, 217 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: that are aligned with Donald Trump. And Trump isn't that 218 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: he's been able to peel off this sect of people. 219 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: And I'm just curious from you, you know, as a 220 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: black man, like, what does that mean? 221 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: Right? 222 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: But do we in the media pay too much attention 223 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: to it or do we not pay enough attention to 224 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: the peel off? What could possibly be attractive to black 225 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: men about Donald Trump? 226 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: Well, that's a very astute observation that I think requires 227 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: us to look back in history and in order to 228 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: understand the present. There have always been black people who 229 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: have aligned themselves with their oppressors. This is true and 230 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 2: every group of marginalized people in fact that there were 231 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: always people who aligned themselves with their oppressors. There are 232 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: always sheep who like the wolves because they somehow, somehow 233 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 2: feel like the wolves will protect them and they feel 234 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 2: like they're going to be a part of that group, 235 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: and it's never been a productive, safe strategy for any 236 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: group of people. So if you look back at you know, 237 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: I've been for the past few months, I've been looking 238 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: at this documentary on BBC called The History of Africa 239 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: was you Know Badali, And it's fascinating story about how 240 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: African cultures evolved over centuries. And the reality is that 241 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: a lot of the way that European colonists were able 242 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: to take over parts of Africa is because black people 243 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: were paid to sell out other black people. And we're 244 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: seeing the same thing now. There are some people who 245 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: don't necessarily align themselves with the interests of black people 246 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: in general. That's one category. Second category of people who 247 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: feel like they don't really want everyone to be free. 248 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: They just want some people to be free. They want 249 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: black men to be free in particular, and they're not 250 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: usually interested in liberating black women or black lgbt q 251 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: A people or black people who come from different backgrounds 252 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: and experiences. They're not interested in any of that. They're 253 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: interested in replicating a form of white male privilege, but 254 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: putting it into black contexts so that they have the 255 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: same privilege that white men have over their white women. 256 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: Why can't we as black men, assistant and heterosexual black 257 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: men have the same privileges that assistants or heterosexual white 258 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: men do. I mean, you know, that's really popular in 259 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: some cultures. You know, it's interesting because a lot of 260 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: people talk about rap and hip hop. Funny to me 261 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: is that Donald Trump is the embodiment of everything that 262 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: rap and hip hop uh is as well, and they 263 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: and they all the negative aspects. I should say that 264 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: that people ascribe to rap and hip hop and and 265 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: and nobody ever knows and nobody ever really talks about that. 266 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: You know, Donald Trump lives in this gold plated penthouse 267 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: in Manhattan on Fifth Avenue. He's got this model wife 268 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: who's been a who's post Newton magazines before. He's got 269 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: all these charges against him. Uh, he's reckless about the 270 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: law and completely uh law not law abiding, but law breaking. 271 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: Uh. 272 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: And these are all the stereotypes associated with black black 273 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: men in particularly Yeah, black men, you know, they just 274 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: they're not interested in being serious people. They just want 275 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 2: to do all these all these things. But some black 276 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: men apparently do want those things and not all fortunately, 277 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: and and so the reality is I'm not I'm not. 278 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: I'm not alarm by it or surprised by it, because 279 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: this is a trend that's been going on for eternity, 280 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 2: since eternity. But I also think it's important to put 281 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: it in context because the overwhelming majority of black men 282 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 2: do not support Donald Trump. It's maybe it ends up 283 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: being eighty percent or eighty five percent instead of ninety 284 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: five percent as it is with black women, but that's 285 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 2: still larger than it is in any other group of people. 286 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: You know, my mom lives in Texas. Whenever I go 287 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 2: to Texas, I'm always suspicious of people in Texas. You know, 288 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: my mom is very friendly with everybody, and I get 289 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 2: that because she lives there and all that, But I'm 290 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 2: not as friendly and trusting of white people in the South, 291 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: and white people, you know, who I feel like would 292 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: take away my rights in a moment's notice. And people 293 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 2: who voted for Donald Trump and both of his elections 294 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 2: and didn't vote for Barack Obama. So yeah, there's a 295 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: lot of people who want that privilege for themselves and 296 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: don't want it for any other people. 297 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: And I'm glad that you put it in the context 298 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: of Okay, so if it's eighty five percent as opposed 299 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: to ninety five percent, right, so that we can get 300 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: a better picture. Because the tale that the Republican Party spins, right, 301 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: is about lifting up, like you said, all of the 302 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: negative attributes that Donald Trump has and saying like, look, 303 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: he should be your king, because this is what you 304 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: all are about. And I'm just like, how could you 305 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: be like even more insulting, even more demeaning, right even 306 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: to the people who quote unquote support you and want 307 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: to wear the Blacks for Trump t shirt, right, Like, 308 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: you know, whatever that is about, I want to pivot 309 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: to another piece of your book where you are talking about, 310 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, the biggest boogeyman that we I don't think 311 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: as Democrats actually faced in the way that it should 312 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: have been faced, which is critical race theory. I think 313 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: that when critical race theory was made up by the 314 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: republic plins use very successfully to turn Virginia blue right 315 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: couched in this idea of parental choice, that Democrats went 316 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: on the defensive and said, well, we don't teach that. 317 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: That's not what we're doing, right, And it was always 318 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: about negating as opposed to posing better questions, right, talk 319 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: to us about that piece in your book and why 320 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: it's something that we actually need to be pulling the 321 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: wool from our eyes about. 322 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about this before, and I think it's 323 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 2: an interesting concept that you're bringing up, because I don't 324 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: necessarily think it's defensive to speak the facts, the factual 325 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: truth that it's not taught in schools, but you know 326 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: that's the misrepresentation that it is. But I do agree 327 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 2: with you that it is important to understand what it 328 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 2: is and to speak affirmatively about that and to talk 329 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 2: about why it's important to st our history. But you know, 330 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: the way I positioned it in my book is I 331 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: explained what critical race theory is. I was there, and 332 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 2: I studied critical race theory in law school back in 333 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties and nineties, so I'm very familiar with it, 334 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: and I know the scholars who started it. But I 335 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: also know that what is being taught in classrooms is 336 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: not critical race theories. For the most part, it's American history. 337 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 2: And people are so afraid of American history that they've 338 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: managed to anything that they think is negative about American history. 339 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 2: They've managed to construct some sort of other category called 340 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 2: critical race theory. No, this is true. Yes, America was 341 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 2: founded on racism. Yes, slavery was a part, not just 342 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: a part, It was a critical component of the success 343 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 2: of America. Yes, the Constitution did count black people as 344 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: three fifths of a citizen. Yes, the Supreme Court did 345 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: say that black people, even if they weren't slaves, don't 346 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: have the right to be citizens in this country. Yes, 347 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: even after the Civil War, the Supreme Court came back 348 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: and said that black people could be segregated racially by 349 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: their government, and that was okay because it was separate 350 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: and and and separate but equal. Yes, our country has 351 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: had thousands and thousands of extra judicial murders of lynchings 352 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: of black people after the Civil War in order to 353 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: try to keep us in line. Yes, our government policies 354 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 2: were created with the purpose of excluding black people. That history. 355 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: That history wasn't something that black people just made up. 356 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: It's not something that you know that that people are 357 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: just kind of constructing the whole thin cloth. It's it's 358 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 2: the reality. You know. I heard Donald Trump the other 359 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: day talking about how we want to preserve Confederate monuments 360 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: and why are they trying to change the names of 361 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: these mind of these forts and all this stuff because 362 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: the World Wars were fought out of these forts. First 363 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: of all, the world wars. 364 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: Were not follow of course, of course. 365 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 2: But secondly, why are you holding on to these names? 366 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: Why is are these people who Republicans of the Party 367 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: of Lincoln allegedly holding onto names of Confederate traders, racist 368 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: Confederate traders who fought against Lincoln, who killed Lincoln. How 369 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 2: is that? How is that perpetuating the Party of Lincoln. 370 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 2: It's perpetuating the antithesis of Lincoln. Because this whole part 371 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: of this whole this shift, that Southern strategy and then 372 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: the shift from the parties in the nineteen sixties and 373 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: seventies that Republicans hate to acknowledge, but there's a long 374 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: history that needs to be discussed. Thomas Jefferson, Yes, he 375 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: deserves the memorial because he wrote the Declaration of Independence, 376 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 2: but we also need to acknowledge it he was enslaver 377 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: with hundreds of slaves, and he raped his black slaves. 378 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: You also need you acknoweds that Thomas Jefferson wasn't in 379 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: that George Washington wasn't enslaver and literally used the teeth 380 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 2: of his slaves, enslaved people to put in his own mouth. 381 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: You know, there's a whole history. Even Abraham Lincoln was 382 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: a white supremacist. Yes, he signed the Emancipation Proclamation and 383 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: pushed to the thirtie Amendment, but he made it very 384 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 2: clear in his remarks repeatedly that he believed that there 385 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: was a superior race, and that was the white race. 386 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 2: There's a whole, long history. They don't want to talk 387 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 2: about that, even a lot of the Democratic heroes of 388 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: the twentieth century. You know, until we get to the 389 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, what both parties had in common, in my opinion, 390 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: was that they were both racist, overtly racist. You know, 391 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: they made appeals every now and then to try to 392 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: be less racist, to be more inclusive, but they were 393 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: both overtly racist. When the Social Security Act was signed 394 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty five, it did not include most black 395 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: people because most black people were agriculture and domestic workers, 396 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: and they were purposely excluded because the southern Dixiecrats didn't 397 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: want them included. You know, when Lyndenhnsen was a notorious 398 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 2: racist who used the N word repeatedly until he had 399 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: a change of heart and he became this civil rights champion, 400 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: his hero in the nineteen sixties. Even people who Republicans 401 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: love to talk about, you know, the who is the 402 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: West Virginia Senator I can't think of right now Robert Byrd, 403 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: who's a former Klansman. They always say he was a 404 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 2: grand Wizard of the Klan. Well, first of all, he 405 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: was a klansman, but he apologized for that, recanted his 406 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: beliefs and moved on. And unlike some of the other 407 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 2: people in the Republican Party, the Storm Thurman's of the 408 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: world who never really apologized. And yet Trent Lott in 409 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 2: the two thousands, the former Republican Senate majority leader, was 410 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 2: praising strom Thurman's nineteen forty eight segregationist campaign. That's American history. 411 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: I think that what is extraordinary is everything. Every bullet 412 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: that you just hit, every point that you just hit, 413 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: isn't Black history. Yeah, it is American history. And to 414 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: deny American history is to deny who we are and 415 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: how far we've come, and yet how far there's still 416 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: is left to go. The last question that I want 417 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: to ask you, Keith, is this for all of the 418 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: things that you've laid out, and the point that I 419 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: want to pull on is that you know, up until 420 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, up until more so in the modern 421 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: era of our body politic, both parties harbored, celebrated, created 422 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: monuments for racists. Right that that is the thing that 423 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,959 Speaker 1: these two parties have in common, and I've had in common. 424 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: While one has tried to become more multiracial and try 425 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: and right the wrongs of its past and look together 426 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: to a more progressive future, their formation and their beliefs 427 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: only began to deviate right part way through the twentieth century. 428 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: And so when young people gen zers, a very important 429 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: voting block, say I don't like neither of them and 430 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: I'm not going to vote. And this spans race and 431 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: spans ethnicity, and spans orientation and identity, what is your 432 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: response to that. 433 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's important to understand that you're right, 434 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: that the parties were similar in many respects for so 435 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: many decades, and it's important to say they're not very 436 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 2: similar anymore on this one issue of race, and that 437 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 2: they aren't completely different. But you know what, it bothers 438 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: me when I hear a lot of liberal or progressive 439 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: commentators talk about how the Democratic Party has lost the 440 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 2: working class. That's beloney Black people are mostly working class voters, 441 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: and the black people have been the most loyal constituency 442 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 2: of the Democratic Party. What they mean is they've lost 443 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 2: a percentage of the white working class. And the truth 444 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: is that no Democratic candidate for president has won the 445 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 2: white vote since nineteen sixty four, when Lyndon Johnson signed 446 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 2: the Civil Rights Act. Ever since then, white voters have 447 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: fled flocked to the Republican Party, abandoned the Democratic Party 448 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 2: because the Democratic Party broke the contract. The contract was 449 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: that two parties could argue about tax cuts and power 450 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 2: in foreign affairs and all those other issues for years 451 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: and years as long as they were both basically pretty 452 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: much racist. And even you know, a Republican Party of 453 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 2: the of the nineteenth century that pushed the Civil Rights Amendments, 454 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth Amendments, and the Reconstruction era, 455 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 2: that party died. It died in the nineteenth century after 456 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 2: when they made a deal in eighteen seventy seven to 457 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: allow Rutherford B. Hayes to be president and in exchange 458 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 2: for that, they withdrew federal protection for black people in 459 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: the South, and that ended Reconstruction and the Republican Party 460 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: of the eighteen sixties and seventies essentially began to die 461 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 2: at that point. And so yes, there was there was 462 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: lip service to civil rights, but nobody did anything about it, 463 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: and neither party cared about it for first centuries. But 464 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: once once you get Lyndon Johnson New Sciences, Will Rights 465 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: Act to sixty four, the Voting Rights Act to sixty five, 466 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: the Fair Housing Act of nineteen sixty eight, and introduces 467 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 2: Medicare Medicaid and changes the policies about the way we 468 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 2: treat black people and endorses affirmative action that this is 469 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 2: white people the hell off, yep, And that's when things 470 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: start to change. So I think it's you know, it's 471 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 2: ahistorical for people to look today and say, oh, there's 472 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: no difference between the two parties. I will grant you 473 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: that the Democratic Party hasn't been able to achieve in 474 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: recent years some of the many things that I would 475 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: like to see it do, namely, and I pointed to 476 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 2: the George Floyd Justice and Placing Act and the job 477 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 2: is Voting Rights Act. But the Democrats are at least 478 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: trying to do that. I mean, there are some Democrats 479 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 2: who are not on board with that, and I would 480 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: be the first to criticize those people. But the president, 481 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: the vice president, the leaders of both houses, and most 482 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: of the people who I respect to the Democratic Party 483 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: have been pushing for those things. If the Republicans who 484 00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: have been in opposition to it, and a lot of 485 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: people say, well, the Democrats or relation, they shouldn't be 486 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: claiming that they're going to do these things if they're 487 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 2: not able to deliver. But you have to understand the 488 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 2: way our system works, and you understand it. You know, 489 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,239 Speaker 2: one king, the president is not a king, can't do 490 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: anything on his own. That's also why I'm a little 491 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: you know, I love Cornell west and I and I 492 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: love what he represents, and that actually love Marian Williams 493 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: since he's authored one of my favorite books, Returned to Love. 494 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: But to be honest, I don't think either one of 495 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: them would ever be uh. First of all, I don't 496 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: think it could be elected. But even if they were elected, 497 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: I don't think either one of them would ever be 498 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 2: an effective leader because you can't lead our country if 499 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: you don't have people in your in your party who 500 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: were who are supporting you, who are following you, and 501 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: you know, running a third party is not an effective 502 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: way to to run a country in this nation, because 503 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 2: you can't get anything passed through Congress. If you don't 504 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: have people in your in who represent your party in Congress, 505 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 2: you can't get any legislation passed. You can't sign executive 506 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 2: orders because the courts will just overturn them. So people 507 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 2: need to really study their history and understand the way 508 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: the American civics works before they start talking about what 509 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: they want to happen without figuring out how we're going 510 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: to make this happen. So, yeah, I would love to 511 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: see third parties. I don't think the Democrats Republicans are enough. 512 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: I think we need other parties. But I think in 513 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: order to do that, we have to start by building 514 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: the grassroots infrastructure. We have to elect city council members 515 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: and mayors and state representatives that's so important, and school 516 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 2: board members and governors and state legislators and others. You know, 517 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: that's why you really start to build that momentum for change. 518 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 2: It doesn't start by electing a president who can only 519 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: serve for two terms eight years max. And then have 520 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 2: everything overturned by the following president. You have to have 521 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 2: sustainable change, which means you have to have an expansive 522 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: view of where that change takes place. 523 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely one hundred percent. Keith Boyken, thank you so very 524 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: much for this new book, Folks, which is out now. 525 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: Why does everything have to be about race? Twenty five 526 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: are us that won't go away? It is out now. 527 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: Heath always appreciate your time, your voice, your intellect, your 528 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: critical thought and your writing. Thanks so much. 529 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 2: Thanks Danielle. 530 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke 531 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: af AS always, power to the people and to all 532 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.