Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. My
Speaker 1: guest today is known for being an actress in cult
Speaker 1: classic movies like Hairspray and cry Baby. She was a
Speaker 1: successful talk show host for many years, and now she's
Speaker 1: creating documentary films about things she is passionate about, from
Speaker 1: natural birth to marijuana to birth control. She's the host
Speaker 1: of her own podcast, The High Life. This is part
Speaker 1: one of our conversation. Please welcome the incomparable Ricky Lake
Speaker 1: to the Eyes Choose Me podcast. We've never met, Well,
Speaker 1: we've met, but like little brief encounters.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really count.
Speaker 1: But yes, and I feel like I know you same same, Okay,
Speaker 1: good good. I love to hear about where people come
Speaker 1: from and why they are the way they are, So
Speaker 1: if I could, I would love to just explore your
Speaker 1: childhood a little bit, because our childhoods have such a
Speaker 1: huge impact on who we are and like the rest
Speaker 1: of our lives. So can you take me back to
Speaker 1: your beginnings a little bit? Like what kind of a
Speaker 1: household did you grow up in?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I am from Westchester County, New York. Officially,
Speaker 2: I was raised in Hastings on Hudson, which is like
Speaker 2: twenty five minutes outside of the city. And I was
Speaker 2: a pretty normal kid. I had a lot of personality,
Speaker 2: and I had two parents that you know, stayed married
Speaker 2: until for forty three years. So my childhood I was
Speaker 2: in a you know, a home that had its own
Speaker 2: dysfunction for sure. It's just my sister and me were
Speaker 2: fourteen months apart. I'm the older sibling. I love to perform.
Speaker 2: I you know, I'm a little bit older than you.
Speaker 2: I'm fifty five, soon to be fifty six. And I
Speaker 2: grew up, you know, watching Little House on the Prairie,
Speaker 2: and in fact, I changed my name to Laura Ingalls
Speaker 2: when I was in like kindergartener first grade. Like, I
Speaker 2: was obsessed with Melissa Gilbert and which you know, your
Speaker 2: costar Shannon Daugherty had one of her starts on that show.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I saw too oh, and I
Speaker 2: saw Annie. When I was six years old, I went
Speaker 2: to the saw the original Broadway cast and my grandma Sylvia,
Speaker 2: who you asked, you know, how am I the way
Speaker 2: I am? Or how did I become who I am.
Speaker 2: So much of it was having my grandma Sylvia as
Speaker 2: my role model, as the matriarch of our family. She
Speaker 2: died when I was nine, but she was the one
Speaker 2: that growing up just out of New York, I went
Speaker 2: and saw Broadway, I went to see opera, I went
Speaker 2: to see the ballet and so all of that culture.
Speaker 2: You know. I remember seeing Annie and I point and
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be her. I yeah,
Speaker 2: did you ever do Annie?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Were you a singer? Did you sing? No? Okay, I was.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a singer, and I just like
Speaker 2: I just saw that and I was like, that's what
Speaker 2: I want to be. And my mother she did the
Speaker 2: best she could, but he her, she rejected me and
Speaker 2: the idea of that before anyone else had the chance to.
Speaker 2: She told me that I wasn't the starving orphan type
Speaker 2: and basically encouraged me never to pursue that. So she
Speaker 2: didn't cast you. She didn't carry me the audition. She
Speaker 2: didn't and you know, and I understand why now, but
Speaker 2: at the time it was, you know, it was the
Speaker 2: ultimate like slap in the face. And I, you know,
Speaker 2: studied singing. I studied dancing. I went through high school
Speaker 2: and got really lucky at eighteen to have hear about
Speaker 2: the audition for a character Tracy Turnblad in the first Hairspray,
Speaker 2: and so it literally changed my entire trajectory. I'd never
Speaker 2: been around openly gay people. I was very sort of
Speaker 2: sheltered and green and naive and young. So yeah, to
Speaker 2: say that, like, my world just completely exploded after that
Speaker 2: and moved my I got to move to la at nineteen,
Speaker 2: I visited you on that not you, but on the
Speaker 2: set of Beverly Hills nine on two one O, because
Speaker 2: the guy who played my boyfriend, Link Lark and Michael
Speaker 2: Saint Gerard he was on he had an arc on
Speaker 2: nine on two and oh, and I came and watched
Speaker 2: you guys work and was totally star struck.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I wish I had known that that
Speaker 1: was happening.
Speaker 2: I could have said a lot. Yeah, it's like one
Speaker 2: of those you know, you have these these memories. I
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of memories because I'm old now
Speaker 2: and I took a lot of ambience back in the day.
Speaker 2: But I do remember that set, and I met Ali Adler,
Speaker 2: who was a writer on your show. At that time,
Speaker 2: and just it was a classroom scene and I just like,
Speaker 2: I just I felt really young. I was probably nineteen
Speaker 2: years old, and I just was like so starstruck and
Speaker 2: it just yeah, it was a really really fun experience.
Speaker 2: See you guys work.
Speaker 1: That's a good story. Thank God for your grandma, by
Speaker 1: the way, Yeah, because otherwise your talents may have never
Speaker 1: come to the surface. And you, you know, like you
Speaker 1: have such a gift. Who knows if it would have happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What she gave me was like a belief in
Speaker 2: myself that you can do anything. I mean, she told me,
Speaker 2: she's like, you are the best, You're the smartest, you're
Speaker 2: the prettiest, you're the most talented. And you know, clearly
Speaker 2: I wasn't, but but I believed it in her eyes
Speaker 2: and so that just like just yeah, it was just
Speaker 2: that memory, that muscle memory of like she thinks I
Speaker 2: can do this. And that's been really like like a
Speaker 2: through line of my entire career because who thought I
Speaker 2: could be a talk show host? I was twenty three
Speaker 2: when they offered me that job. I mean, I just
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, they think I could do it?
Speaker 2: Say all right, I'm going to do it?
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? Like, wait, I'm skipping ahead,
Speaker 1: but I really didn't know.
Speaker 2: Well, I come from my friends that have known me
Speaker 2: for a very long time that I don't have a
Speaker 2: doubt gene, Like I don't doubt myself. And that's kind
Speaker 2: of true where I just like sort of jump feet first.
Speaker 2: I'm very impulsive. I'm extremely impulsive. I act many times
Speaker 2: before I have a chance to really think things through.
Speaker 2: But if you look at my life and the choices
Speaker 2: I've made, it's mostly worked out. Like my instincts are
Speaker 2: usually right. And yeah, I love that about myself. Like
Speaker 2: I'm just one of those people like I get an idea,
Speaker 2: I get a bug up my ass, and I just
Speaker 2: go for it, and I yeah, it's worked out pretty well.
Speaker 1: Similar, I too, am impulsive, and I have made choices
Speaker 1: very quickly in my life and somehow they've worked out.
Speaker 1: Even if they didn't work out, they worked out.
Speaker 2: Give me an example. What's an example that comes to mind? Um?
Speaker 1: Okay, well, having a baby when I was twenty one,
Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty three in that era that was impulsive
Speaker 1: and crazy because I was so young.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was twenty eight when I had my first
Speaker 2: so it's still very young, considering like all my friends,
Speaker 2: they're having kids much. I have my friend, my friend
Speaker 2: Rachel Harris is my age, and she has a five
Speaker 2: year old and seven year old. Oh okay, and I
Speaker 2: have a twenty seven year old and a twenty three
Speaker 2: year old. I can't even imagine trading places like Freaky
Speaker 2: Fridaying with her. That would be crazy. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: had my kids pretty young. But yeah, I mean so yeah,
Speaker 2: so twenty one. Got so how old are your kids?
Speaker 1: Twenty seven, twenty one and eighteen?
Speaker 2: So the twenty seven when you were pregnant when I
Speaker 2: was your daughter? I think you have three girls. I
Speaker 2: have two boys. Your oldest daughter was born in ninety seven.
Speaker 2: Mine too. How is she doing? She's launched, She's awesome.
Speaker 2: Is she the one you have the clothing line with? No?
Speaker 1: She? This is the one that lives in New York
Speaker 1: and doing her thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Mine, loving heart waiting.
Speaker 1: For her to come back.
Speaker 2: You are see. I'm I'm okay. If they never come back,
Speaker 2: I mean they want them to visit. I love them visiting.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad they have their own lives. I'm an
Speaker 2: empty nester. I was one of those parents. That when
Speaker 2: I dropped my son off at school. And I love
Speaker 2: my children and I love that I'm a mom and
Speaker 2: it's my favorite role of my life as being their mom.
Speaker 2: But when I dropped him off at college, I peeled
Speaker 2: out of that driveway. I couldn't get out of there
Speaker 2: fast enough and like, Okay, one down, one to go.
Speaker 2: You know you're honesty, It's true, and you know your
Speaker 2: whole thing is about choosing you. Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 2: this time in my life is like all about like
Speaker 2: I she was myself and choosing this relationship with my
Speaker 2: new husband. I am playing more than I've played in
Speaker 2: a really long time. It just feels like my fifties
Speaker 2: is like the brightest time of my life is right now.
Speaker 2: It's like reaping the fruits of my labor. Like I've
Speaker 2: worked really hard, I've done the right thing for so long.
Speaker 2: I've made the sacrifices for everyone around me. I've shown
Speaker 2: up for work, I've delivered, and now I kind of
Speaker 2: I don't want to say I'm coasting, but I'm certainly
Speaker 2: coasting way more than I ever have from the rest
Speaker 2: of my life.
Speaker 1: For sure, it feels good. I can feel it through
Speaker 1: this TV screen. I'm so happy for you being happy.
Speaker 1: It's good. Oh we have so many parallels. There's so
Speaker 1: so many. We both got started in the industry when
Speaker 1: we're pretty young. How old are you about the same
Speaker 1: age as you. I was like sixteen seventeen, had very
Speaker 1: you know, great childhood idyllic. I feel like I can
Speaker 1: really relate to you, and I want to know when
Speaker 1: you were growing up in the public I of celebrityism.
Speaker 1: What did you think of all of it? How did
Speaker 1: it feel to you?
Speaker 2: Well, so I was eighteen, So if you were sixteen,
Speaker 2: you were a minor. I was not a miner when
Speaker 2: I got hairspray. I was. I was just a freshman
Speaker 2: in college and I you know, so I was an
Speaker 2: adult quote unquote. But it's definitely not like mature in
Speaker 2: any way. And I didn't know anything different, Like it's
Speaker 2: just it was just my experience. And also like my
Speaker 2: start was with John Waters and this very specific type
Speaker 2: of experience. So it was very felt like camp more
Speaker 2: than it felt like a job. You know. I was
Speaker 2: working really hard, but it was super fun and playful
Speaker 2: and I got famous. Like I So, I've told this
Speaker 2: story before, but I'll share with you. John Waters sat
Speaker 2: me down after we finished making Hairspray. So you know, again,
Speaker 2: I'm eighteen. We just had this summer of my life
Speaker 2: the movie. You know, you wrap the movie, but then
Speaker 2: it takes months for it to come out. And he
Speaker 2: sat me down after the making of the film and
Speaker 2: he said, I want to give you some advice. He's like,
Speaker 2: I have three I want you to remember these three things.
Speaker 2: Always stay humble. Always stay true to yourself. If you're
Speaker 2: going to read and believe the good things people write
Speaker 2: about you, you're going to have to read and believe
Speaker 2: the bad. Basically, keep it all in check, keep it
Speaker 2: all in perspective. And I feel like that advice, that
Speaker 2: talking to and the mentoring he's given me over the
Speaker 2: years has managed to help me stay really pretty grounded
Speaker 2: and very normal, you know. And so yes, it was
Speaker 2: weird becoming famous and making a lot of money and
Speaker 2: people knowing my name. I mean, I loved it. It's
Speaker 2: what I wanted. It's what I dreamed of when I
Speaker 2: saw Annie at six, you know, so like here I am,
Speaker 2: like my dream has come true. And it was ultimately
Speaker 2: like really positive, like there was nothing you know, it
Speaker 2: was only when my career stopped, you know, when I
Speaker 2: was about twenty two, twenty one, twenty two, and I
Speaker 2: didn't get this big part that I wanted. I was
Speaker 2: really devastated. It was a movie called dog Fight. It's
Speaker 2: a movie that probably no one really remembers, but it
Speaker 2: was with River Phoenix and Lily Taylor got the part.
Speaker 2: But it was like something I really really wanted and
Speaker 2: it didn't happen for me. And then I couldn't get arrested.
Speaker 2: I was on China Beach and I didn't get picked
Speaker 2: up my option, you know, the whole thing that things
Speaker 2: happen in our business. And I went from like making
Speaker 2: all this money to making nothing and had to give
Speaker 2: up my house and I was homeless for a short time.
Speaker 2: I had to move. I mean, it was but it
Speaker 2: was the most humbling experience that I'm so grateful for.
Speaker 2: You know. In the end, yes, I lost probably about
Speaker 2: two or three hundred thousand dollars in that, you know,
Speaker 2: that learning experience, but it taught me so much, you know,
Speaker 2: about the value of a dollar, and thankfully I didn't
Speaker 2: have a family to support at that time. You know,
Speaker 2: It's just like changed everything. And then I got my
Speaker 2: talk show. Then I went. Oh, I also went on
Speaker 2: it like a crash crash crazy diet because I realized
Speaker 2: that the reason, you know, one of the reasons I
Speaker 2: wasn't getting parts anymore, I wasn't getting cast in anything,
Speaker 2: is because the novelty of being the fat girl had
Speaker 2: kind of worn off, and I felt like, Okay, the
Speaker 2: only thing I can control in my life is my
Speaker 2: physicality and how I take care of myself. So I
Speaker 2: went on this crash diet. I lost one hundred pounds,
Speaker 2: and then the talk show came my way and lifted
Speaker 2: me out of my uh pover and it changed my
Speaker 2: life for sure.
Speaker 1: Two things on that Okay, so I love those words
Speaker 1: of a wisdom that he gave you, right, really good
Speaker 1: for John Waters. Yeah, those are like fatherly mm hmm.
Speaker 1: That was necessary guidance. But one of them is a
Speaker 1: little hard for me. The part where you are supposed
Speaker 1: to believe in yourself and love and read and believe
Speaker 1: the things that people write about you, the good things,
Speaker 1: but also the bad things. Now, with social media the
Speaker 1: way it is and everybody having some sort of a
Speaker 1: platform to say whatever they think good or bad, do
Speaker 1: you still believe that reading bad things about yourself is
Speaker 1: something you should let in.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a totally different ballgame now, you know.
Speaker 2: And for me, like I'm so glad I don't do
Speaker 2: a talk show now you know that. I mean, I
Speaker 2: do what I do, and I choose to do what
Speaker 2: I'm doing, like I do my own podcast. I love it.
Speaker 2: It's like you know, it's it's it's completely something I
Speaker 2: want to do. But as far as being in a
Speaker 2: situation where you're having to speak out and be whether
Speaker 2: it's political or controversial or you know, you can't make
Speaker 2: everyone happy and there's this instant reaction from stranger, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just a brutal thing that I don't really participate
Speaker 2: much in. Like all my posting is very positive, it's
Speaker 2: all about joy, it's all about you know, like very
Speaker 2: much what you're about. Yeah, yeah, I really I think
Speaker 2: it's like the devil in a lot of ways, Like
Speaker 2: we have like made this deal and now with what's
Speaker 2: coming up with AI, I mean, it is all terrifying.
Speaker 2: But the difference is at fifty five, I know who
Speaker 2: I am, I love who I am. I am, Like
Speaker 2: i feel like I'm the best me I've ever been
Speaker 2: and that comes from life experience that comes from, like,
Speaker 2: you know, the things I've achieved, the things I've overcome.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've had like a really beautiful journey, and
Speaker 2: a lot of it's been really hard. I lost my partner,
Speaker 2: my last partner, to mental illness and suicide, and that
Speaker 2: was one of probably the hardest thing I've ever had
Speaker 2: to I can't say I've overcome it, but to deal
Speaker 2: with and learn to live with. But like, yeah, the
Speaker 2: things people say about me, it doesn't really affect me
Speaker 2: at this point. And I think that is like you
Speaker 2: know that cliche when you turn fifty, you don't give
Speaker 2: a shit what other people think about you. It's none
Speaker 2: of your business what people think about you. And it's
Speaker 2: kind of true for me, Like I definitely nothing really
Speaker 2: gets to me. And I'm really also lucky that I
Speaker 2: have a lot of good will in this industry. People
Speaker 2: feel like they know who I am, they like me,
Speaker 2: they root for me, and so there's really not a
Speaker 2: lot of negative stuff that comes my way.
Speaker 1: Thanks right, right, Well, that's because you're just a positive
Speaker 1: energy and positive attracting.
Speaker 2: Positive I think. So, I mean, I am really positive
Speaker 2: and I have a lot to be grateful for.
Speaker 1: And you've had so much. I think also too, it's
Speaker 1: about those hardships that we've endured and that we've lived
Speaker 1: through and learned so much from that make us so
Speaker 1: much more full of gratitude and hope and you know,
Speaker 1: just a sense of like achievement that you survive something
Speaker 1: so terrible. You know, you really start to turn to
Speaker 1: your self in those moments instead of listening to other people.
Speaker 1: I think that's really yeahful.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think all of the traumatic things that
Speaker 2: I've had in my life, and I've had my share,
Speaker 2: you know, we all have stuff we go through, but
Speaker 2: I think all of it has in the end been
Speaker 2: a gift, you know, like I've gotten something out of
Speaker 2: all of the hardship, you know, from being sexually molested
Speaker 2: as a small child to like just you know, living
Speaker 2: through nine to eleven. You know, nine to eleven. I
Speaker 2: was there on that day downtown, watched the whole thing
Speaker 2: unfold before my very eyes, and I was a new mom.
Speaker 2: I had a two month old at that time, So
Speaker 2: that was you know, deeply, deeply like world life changing everything.
Speaker 2: But like for me, it got me to kind of
Speaker 2: make a decision on where I wanted to go with
Speaker 2: my career where I wanted to raise my family. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to be in New York anymore. I left
Speaker 2: New York, I left my talk show, I left my marriage.
Speaker 2: I mean, all of that happened after that experience watching
Speaker 2: that unfold, and in the end it was a gift
Speaker 2: for me. I started focusing on documentary film work, which
Speaker 2: is it's like what I want my legacy to be
Speaker 2: is like these these pieces of work that really question
Speaker 2: why things are the way they are. In that case
Speaker 2: with the birth world, you know, so I sort of
Speaker 2: found my voice and I found my true passion through
Speaker 2: living through something so traumatic.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to circle back on that
Speaker 1: you said was the novelty of being the fat girl
Speaker 1: wore off. How do you think that shaped who you
Speaker 1: are today? Having to really be fronted and faced with
Speaker 1: your appearance being connected in a negative way by people.
Speaker 1: How did that affect your sense of self and your
Speaker 1: your security and yourself all these years.
Speaker 2: That's a lot to do, A really good question. I mean, ultimately,
Speaker 2: it was incredible that I was one of the very
Speaker 2: first I can't think of another ingen new girl that
Speaker 2: was two hundred pounds, you know. So it was amazing
Speaker 2: to like break the mold in that way and to
Speaker 2: be so well received, And it was believable watching that movie.
Speaker 2: Even today, it's believable that she wins the contest and
Speaker 2: she gets the guy. She pause.
Speaker 1: I love that movie so much. I could watch it over.
Speaker 1: We have watched it a million times in our house.
Speaker 1: But you shaped us, Thank you.
Speaker 2: It was so fun and it was me like, I
Speaker 2: am just like you are you are. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of you that's Kelly, right, yes, right right, Well, at
Speaker 2: least I want to think that, but I'm very much
Speaker 2: I'm Tracy Turnblad trapped in a fifty five year old
Speaker 2: gray haired woman. It just it just, I mean a difference.
Speaker 2: Like I was two hundred pounds and adorable when I
Speaker 2: did that movie, But I was two hundred and sixty
Speaker 2: pounds when I did Cry Baby three years later, you know,
Speaker 2: and two hundred and sixty pounds on a five foot
Speaker 2: three inch frame. It was a lot, and and it
Speaker 2: wasn't working anymore like I was, you know, would go
Speaker 2: out on it. I just wasn't getting the parts, and
Speaker 2: so I was in a desperate place where I was
Speaker 2: supporting myself and I was running out of money and
Speaker 2: I needed to do something that I could control. And
Speaker 2: it really was like when I think back on it,
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't the healthiest way. I starved myself.
Speaker 2: I basically didn't stop eating altogether, but I ate very,
Speaker 2: very very little. I joined a gym and would ride
Speaker 2: my bike in the valley. I live north of Victory
Speaker 2: if you know where that is, like Woodman and Victory.
Speaker 2: And at the time it was whatever nineteen was that
Speaker 2: ninety two, ninety one ninety two in that area, and
Speaker 2: I no one would viit. My friends wouldn't come visit me.
Speaker 2: It was like a very much a Spanish speaking neighborhood.
Speaker 2: I lived in a poolhouse my back My little house
Speaker 2: was a like I had a sliding glass door. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was a very humbling time for me, and it
Speaker 2: was appropriate for someone who is my age, you know,
Speaker 2: who was like went from riches rags to riches and
Speaker 2: riches to rags, and then I think it was really
Speaker 2: empowering and being able to change my body in the
Speaker 2: way I did. It worked like I was, you know,
Speaker 2: went from a size twenty four to a size twelve,
Speaker 2: you know, in about like six or eight months, like
Speaker 2: really really short period of time, and I did it
Speaker 2: with the sole purpose of a getting a little bit
Speaker 2: healthier and B getting a job. You know, I needed
Speaker 2: to work. And so the pilot of the talk show
Speaker 2: came around at that time, and it kind of I
Speaker 2: think worked as the narrative or my story of like
Speaker 2: this relatable girl, this young woman that people root for,
Speaker 2: like Tracy Turnblad, you know, I'm like this underdog kind
Speaker 2: of character. And so it wasn't calculated in getting a
Speaker 2: talk like I never thought I was gonna get a
Speaker 2: talk show. Who thinks a twenty something that you're going
Speaker 2: to be picked to do something like that. But it
Speaker 2: just was like this divine thing that just happened and
Speaker 2: it just all worked. Oh did I answer your question?
Speaker 1: You did? I feel as if it made you believe
Speaker 1: in yourself even more than you already did, and it
Speaker 1: made you fight for what you knew was right for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I I it's so it's so
Speaker 2: I don't spend a lot of time like thinking back
Speaker 2: of like like who I was back then, you know,
Speaker 2: like why I did this or why I did that?
Speaker 2: But yeah, the talk show was such like a comfortable
Speaker 2: arena for me. I was so it was a natural thing.
Speaker 2: Like in the beginning, I would just channel Oprah because
Speaker 2: I was such an Oprah fan and Phil Donahue Bless
Speaker 2: his soul, and Sally Jesse, Like I was a big
Speaker 2: watcher of those shows. So when they gave me the
Speaker 2: microphone and said go, you know, go do it yourself.
Speaker 2: You know, I was like, all right, what would Oprah say?
Speaker 2: I would channel her? Oh what would Opra say? But
Speaker 2: then as I found my footing, It's like I just
Speaker 2: I just was a really good listener, and I was
Speaker 2: really interested and curious about people and relationships. It was fascinating,
Speaker 2: and then it was fun and that it became like
Speaker 2: the party that everyone wanted to come to every day
Speaker 2: at our show. You know, it was like it was
Speaker 2: really special, and I don't think I recognized it. Then
Speaker 2: when I'm in it, I'm just in it, and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, I'm making this money and
Speaker 2: people are like shouting my name, like this is so cool.
Speaker 2: But it just felt so normal, like Okay, this is
Speaker 2: the next chapter of my career. You know. It's now
Speaker 2: looking back on, like what the hell was I thinking?
Speaker 2: How presumptuous for me to assume I know what people
Speaker 2: should do when they're you know, in relationships. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't even know who I was at that time,
Speaker 2: but it was it was fun well.
Speaker 1: Because we grew up in the way we did, like
Speaker 1: in the public eye like that. It's it's as if
Speaker 1: we have somehow been encapsulated in people's minds as that
Speaker 1: younger version of ourselves, you know, like people will always
Speaker 1: see us the way they first saw us. Is that
Speaker 1: ever hard for you or do you embrace that?
Speaker 2: I think it's changed because I have been I've literally
Speaker 2: like had all these different facets of my career, you know,
Speaker 2: like people know me and it's really funny. John Waters
Speaker 2: and I'll joke about it. We're in an airport and like,
Speaker 2: you know, a certain type of personal code to me.
Speaker 2: Oh they know me from this, like we can kind
Speaker 2: of peg him, you know, gay man, he knows obviously
Speaker 2: John Water stuff. But then the pregnant mom saw my
Speaker 2: documentary about birth, you know, like it's just so funny.
Speaker 2: So I think I've reinvented myself and I have changed
Speaker 2: my physicality both in way and you know obviously with
Speaker 2: my gray hair and I shave my head and my like,
Speaker 2: I have a lot of different facets of me. See,
Speaker 2: I look at you, and you look exactly the same
Speaker 2: from nine and two, and oh you haven't changed at all.
Speaker 1: That's what I hear a lot, and I'm in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what you talking about? I've changed so much?
Speaker 2: What are the years you were on the air with
Speaker 2: nine of two and I was ten years and ninety
Speaker 2: the entire decade, So nineteen ninety it launched. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: you launched before I went on the air in ninety three.
Speaker 2: So I went from ninety three to four, so basically
Speaker 2: around the same time frame or basically the same age. Wow, yep, yeah,
Speaker 2: that was Those were good times, weren't they.
Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, the best. The nineties were the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Down, I'm so glad. I talk about it with
Speaker 2: my new husband a lot. Ross he's not my new
Speaker 2: husband two and a half years we've been married, but
Speaker 2: he and I are no similar in age. He's he's
Speaker 2: he's incredible, but like we both are so and maybe
Speaker 2: you feel the same way. I'm so glad I was
Speaker 2: born when I was born, that I lived through our childhood,
Speaker 2: we lived through without cell phones, without you know, those
Speaker 2: distractions and you know, and our kids never knew what
Speaker 2: it was like before that.
Speaker 1: So I don't know what's going to happen to the
Speaker 1: kids these days, to the young And I have my
Speaker 1: daughter the other day because she they have a new
Speaker 1: brother that's two years old, and I asked her, I
Speaker 1: was like, what do you think is going to be
Speaker 1: like for Jack when he's your age? And what she say,
Speaker 1: She's like, I don't know, because even you know, my
Speaker 1: middle one is able to look at my younger ones
Speaker 1: experience right now and think, I'm so glad I didn't
Speaker 1: have to deal with that. Yeah, because they're like four
Speaker 1: or five years apart. Things change so much. But I
Speaker 1: guess we just adapt.
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, we will. I wonder what I mean.
Speaker 2: I watched that Oprah special on AI last week. It
Speaker 2: was so sobering. It was so it's so daunting. I'm
Speaker 2: someone who's like, I don't even I was never taught
Speaker 2: computer skills, really no, I was never like, I learned
Speaker 2: to tie on a typewriter type. I'm really good at it.
Speaker 2: I was so good at it. My sister and I were.
Speaker 2: It's we're a year apart, but with that elective we
Speaker 2: were in the same like doing it at the same time,
Speaker 2: so we got very competitive. So I'm really good at typing,
Speaker 2: but like I couldn't. I can't. I mean, it's embarrassing
Speaker 2: to say, but I can't do like Microsoft word.
Speaker 1: I feel your pain, trust me. I'm like, oh, girls,
Speaker 1: somebody help me here. Yeah, I'm remote. I don't know
Speaker 1: how to work it.
Speaker 2: And with social media, like I don't know how I'm
Speaker 2: I'm just I say, I'm a grandma with this stuff,
Speaker 2: and I just feel like, all right, it's just I
Speaker 2: just missed out on it. Like my kids are very
Speaker 2: savvy with that stuff. They're not big on social media.
Speaker 2: They don't do it neither. My kids they're like readers
Speaker 2: and they're I mean, I'm glad that they're not caught
Speaker 2: up in what seems to be something that's really really
Speaker 2: addicting and challenging to deal with.
Speaker 1: Well, we're doing it. We are doing it. We are
Speaker 1: officially growing up, even though we don't know, we don't
Speaker 1: have our tech skills right now in this you know,
Speaker 1: magical phase of our lives. Are fifth And did you
Speaker 1: have any like trepidation when you were turning fifty when
Speaker 1: you're forty nine, you're like, oh, my god, what's going
Speaker 1: to happen?
Speaker 2: I mean, so it's been five years because I'm fifty five. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was weird because Okay, so I lost Christian, my partner,
Speaker 2: my second husband, when I was forty eight, so you know,
Speaker 2: I was like a late bloomer in every way. Like
Speaker 2: I was married from twenty five to thirty five with
Speaker 2: my first husband, the father and my kids. And I
Speaker 2: remarried to Christian when I was forty two, and then
Speaker 2: at forty eight he passed. And so coming up on fifty,
Speaker 2: it was such a huge milestone and I was dealing
Speaker 2: with this loss and so much of it was wrapped
Speaker 2: up in trying to like heal from that, trying to
Speaker 2: like get the lesson. And you know, so I did
Speaker 2: celebrate turning fifty, and I you know, but I think
Speaker 2: it was it was bittersweet, you know, because he wasn't
Speaker 2: there for me. But yeah, and I did like a list.
Speaker 2: I mean, something I did and it's not PC, but
Speaker 2: I did it as an exercise, in like a therapeutic exercise,
Speaker 2: which I've I've told people about it and they now
Speaker 2: do it for themselves. So when I was turning fifty,
Speaker 2: I did this list of all the things that I'd
Speaker 2: gone through, achieved, overcome from the time I turned forty
Speaker 2: to the time I turned fifty. And it is quite
Speaker 2: the list, Like it's it runs the gamut, Like it
Speaker 2: runs from like, oh, I stopped speaking to my mother
Speaker 2: to I won my first emmy. I got to go
Speaker 2: on the Oprah Show and profess my love to Christian I.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like a list that's you know, it's
Speaker 2: a lot and and so that's so turning fifty for me,
Speaker 2: it was really like relishing all that I have lived
Speaker 2: through and I've I've lived such a life like I
Speaker 2: wouldn't trade places with anyone else all for all of it,
Speaker 2: Like even losing my partner. You know, I got so
Speaker 2: much out of that relationship, and I, you know, have
Speaker 2: this very very like strong knowing that he is with
Speaker 2: me every step of the way. I believe he brought
Speaker 2: my new husband to me, like you know, and I
Speaker 2: got into plant medicine. I got it. Like there's so
Speaker 2: many things I've done since you know, turning forty and
Speaker 2: since losing him. Like it's like I said before, I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm the best me I I've ever been
Speaker 2: because I think I'm having like, I'm way more open
Speaker 2: in my fifties than I was in my twenties.
Speaker 1: Me too, Me too, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I mean I was yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean
Speaker 2: there's so many things that I was so close minded
Speaker 2: about and very judgmental about and just fear filled. And
Speaker 2: I think I'm less fear.
Speaker 1: Filled, definitely. Yeah. I always say I'm less reactive now.
Speaker 1: I'm still impulsive, I'm still yeah quality, I'm an aries okay.
Speaker 2: My son's and ares. I'm a virgo yeah and uh yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't even know what it means, but I'm.
Speaker 1: Just on either.
Speaker 2: I am who I am like like it's like there's
Speaker 2: no changing who I am. I like who I am
Speaker 2: right now. That's the key, right there. You love who
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 1: It's the key to happiness, It's the key to freedom.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I kind of have always loved myself, like
Speaker 2: I kind of have. I mean, I'm away, he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm a work in progress and I'm you know, have
Speaker 2: a lot to learn. But I've always been a pretty
Speaker 2: good person. I'm a really good friend. I think I'm
Speaker 2: a really good mom, I'm a really good wife. I'm
Speaker 2: not a great actress. I'll admit that, Like I've been good.
Speaker 2: I've been really good, but I've also been really not good.
Speaker 2: And I'm better. I think it playing being me, you know,
Speaker 2: being authentically myself than I am with taking on characters.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good thing to know about yourself. I
Speaker 1: love that you also are embracing your beautiful hair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well right now, I meant to put a hat on,
Speaker 2: but because my headphones are too big and the hat
Speaker 2: just helps it stay, and I forgot, But I forgotten.
Speaker 2: I kind of just blew it out really fast. But
Speaker 2: the fact that I have hair is a freaking miracle
Speaker 2: because five years ago I shaved my head. You probably
Speaker 2: are aware of this, but I shaved my head and
Speaker 2: went public about my issue that I was having, which
Speaker 2: was with hair loss. Like it's called andrew genetic alopecia,
Speaker 2: my type of hair loss, and which is basically like
Speaker 2: getting older and women loser hair. You know, It's like
Speaker 2: there's no big you know, like I mean, it's just
Speaker 2: very normal for women to go through that. But for me,
Speaker 2: I was wearing extensions for a really long time and
Speaker 2: that was damaging my hair and the color I was
Speaker 2: putting on my hair. Every three weeks. I was having
Speaker 2: dye my hair and all of it just didn't agree
Speaker 2: with me, and I finally just surrendered. And that was
Speaker 2: again a very traumatic experience for me. I'm someone who's
Speaker 2: an open book. Everyone's known me, they grew up with me,
Speaker 2: they know me for my show. I'm very honest and
Speaker 2: open about everything in my life, and in this case,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I was so ashamed that I was dealing
Speaker 2: with this, and I had it as like sort of
Speaker 2: this deep, dark secret, something I didn't even talk about
Speaker 2: with my therapist. And so when I finally kind of
Speaker 2: came out and and just basically let go of like
Speaker 2: I'm going to just rock a bald head for the
Speaker 2: rest of my life. And you know, you don't know
Speaker 2: what you look like bald until you do it. All, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't know how to you like it. I looked
Speaker 2: so good. I looked so good. I was amazed that
Speaker 2: I have actually a good like shaped head, have a
Speaker 2: very small head. I like to think my brain isn't small,
Speaker 2: but my head is small. And so I was relieved.
Speaker 2: But that's not even the point. The point is like
Speaker 2: I just like let go of it, like just bothering me,
Speaker 2: you know, in secret, And that was the release and
Speaker 2: lo and behold. You know, I used a product that
Speaker 2: that helped me, and I also I think stopped stressing
Speaker 2: about it, stopped putting extensions. Anyway, I don't know how
Speaker 2: I got onto that, but yeah, my gray hair, I'm
Speaker 2: very grateful for every strand thank you.
Speaker 1: I want to go white someday, like any way, or
Speaker 1: do you have gray hair? Yeah? I have white hair.
Speaker 2: You do, I think it's white? And so you have
Speaker 2: to do color your hair every three weeks? Is that you're.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going today? Actually you are?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well lucky for your blonde, right, I assume you
Speaker 2: are a natural blonde. You don't have brown hair? Yeah, no, No,
Speaker 2: it's and I think with the pandemic, the timing of it,
Speaker 2: like the genius that with my the way it unfolded
Speaker 2: for me because I did this very deliberately at the
Speaker 2: end of twenty nineteen, Like on New Year's Eve Day,
Speaker 2: I had my friend documented, my friend Amanda Demi, who's
Speaker 2: a brilliant photographer. I wanted it documented because I knew
Speaker 2: I had to be public about it. Like I didn't
Speaker 2: do it as like a I did it to be
Speaker 2: set free. But I felt like if I just shaved
Speaker 2: my head and came out with a shaved head. People
Speaker 2: would have thought, you know, that I had cancer god forbid,
Speaker 2: or that I was crazy, you know, like I just
Speaker 2: needed to tell my story, and so I was very
Speaker 2: deliberate about that. But it was right before the pandemic,
Speaker 2: and once the pandemic had happened, nobody could color their hair. Nobody.
Speaker 2: So for me, like I just it would have been
Speaker 2: I would have been shaving my head, but it would
Speaker 2: have been under a different set of circumstances for sure.
Speaker 1: I recently read one of my journal entries when I
Speaker 1: turned fifty, and I talked openly about how I felt
Speaker 1: about eight and the double standard with women and men
Speaker 1: versus men getting older, and I just I love that
Speaker 1: you don't give an f you just are who you are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love being this age. I mean I
Speaker 2: love it. It's like I have so much more just
Speaker 2: wisdom and peace. I mean, it's also my circumstances. So
Speaker 2: I recognize, like I'm privileged, I have money, and I
Speaker 2: you know, like I get it, but I've also like
Speaker 2: been through a lot and coming out the other side,
Speaker 2: like there's just an appreciation and a it's just yeah,
Speaker 2: my husband and I both are in this phase of
Speaker 2: just like stopping and smelling the roses and appreciating the
Speaker 2: little things and the quiet and the calm. And yeah,
Speaker 2: because I recognize the world is crazy and there's so
Speaker 2: much that we can't control, which can make me crazy.
Speaker 2: It could literally, you know, like if I watch the
Speaker 2: news too much, it makes me spin. But my little bubble,
Speaker 2: my little bubble with my dog and my beautiful husband
Speaker 2: in our beautiful house and overlooking the ocean, it's just like,
Speaker 2: pinch me, please.
Speaker 1: I mean I think that that. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: almost there. You know. I'm a nineteen year old, but
Speaker 1: my twenty one year old moved back in which I love.
Speaker 1: But my husband is really ready for that chapter. He
Speaker 1: doesn't have children of his own, so he's ready to
Speaker 1: have me all to himself, which he hasn't had yet.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about that? Are you ready?
Speaker 1: Part of me's ready? Yeah? Because I love just hanging
Speaker 1: out and being just you know, going with the flow
Speaker 1: and just being chill. And we love doing that together.
Speaker 1: And it's really hard to do that when you have
Speaker 1: kids coming and going and doing what kids do. And
Speaker 1: so I'm like half and half on that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just didn't. That just wasn't part of my thing.
Speaker 2: I couldn't wait. And so we have actually like a
Speaker 2: rule in our well, not a rule, but I like
Speaker 2: an agreement that we our kids are never moving back
Speaker 2: and they can visit. They can visit. We're in the
Speaker 2: process of building a little guest house so that we
Speaker 2: have a proper space for people to visit and my
Speaker 2: kids who live my both my kids live in New
Speaker 2: York together, So I definitely want them to visit. I
Speaker 2: just don't want like the moving back in, Like it
Speaker 2: just it just doesn't work for us, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you have that boundary, though, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I feel like I don't know if I
Speaker 1: could ever say that to my daughters, Like really I
Speaker 1: kind of want to.
Speaker 2: I like if I even had that conversation. There's just
Speaker 2: an understanding. We don't need to spell it out, but
Speaker 2: there's like like they're they're launching, they're starting their own lives.
Speaker 2: My yeah, I want one son's in graduate school, the
Speaker 2: other ones in art school. They're thriving, they're happy. I
Speaker 2: don't hear from them that often. I don't know, how
Speaker 2: about you, you talking to your daughters, maybe once or
Speaker 2: twice a week, Like lately, my older son Milo, he
Speaker 2: calls me just to fill me in on what's going on,
Speaker 2: and it's like such a joy I could cry because
Speaker 2: normally when they call me, it's they need something, there's
Speaker 2: something's wrong, you know, And lately it's been so nice
Speaker 2: that I get a phone call and like, what do
Speaker 2: you need? Nothing, I just wanted to fill you. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this time has come feeling. It's amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really Yeah, I'm really it's like that thing that
Speaker 2: like I'm really proud of who they are and that
Speaker 2: they're happy. Like that's like they're they're super happy. I've
Speaker 2: done my job, I think. I mean, there's always going
Speaker 2: to be blips in the road, but yeah, right now
Speaker 2: today I can truly celebrate that, like they're doing really well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now your next job is just you, you in
Speaker 1: your life, you being happy, you choosing you. It's the best.
Speaker 1: I'm really good at that job. Yeah, it's working.
Speaker 2: Wait.
Speaker 1: You and i've both been married before, and we've both
Speaker 1: had to go through divorces in the you know spotlight.
Speaker 2: Yes I have. I think what you've been married three times,
Speaker 2: I've been married three times and I say this is
Speaker 2: my third and last and favorite marriage. No, that's good,
Speaker 2: and I was very much in love with my first
Speaker 2: I was absolutely When I got married at twenty five,
Speaker 2: I thought it was forever. When I got married at
Speaker 2: forty two, I thought it was forever. But think, I
Speaker 2: think the piece that was missing if I can break
Speaker 2: it down. And it's obviously way more complex than this,
Speaker 2: but just to simplify, I don't think I had the
Speaker 2: self love then and the knowing of who I was
Speaker 2: that I do now. Does that make sense.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent? Yeah? I mean my husband and I
Speaker 1: joke about it sometimes because I will get insecure or
Speaker 1: feel a certain type of way and say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is old me. I don't do this anymore. Like
Speaker 1: he had the best years of my life, and I'd
Speaker 1: feel so bad that now I'm older because I'm nine
Speaker 1: years older than Dave, and I.
Speaker 2: Feel for you.
Speaker 1: I feel like he got the short end of the stick,
Speaker 1: almost like he You know, it could be perceived as such,
Speaker 1: but honestly, the truth is he's getting the best version
Speaker 1: of me that better, way better than any of the
Speaker 1: other two had because I've learned so much about myself
Speaker 1: and what I've worked so hard to learn more about
Speaker 1: myself so that I could be in a healthy relationship
Speaker 1: with somebody else, because I do love to be partnered,
Speaker 1: and I just was like struggling and not being able to,
Speaker 1: you know, have success in that area. And so now
Speaker 1: I'm like, you, you may not have gotten all the
Speaker 1: glitz and the glamour of you know, that sudden fame
Speaker 1: and all the money. You know. I joke, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I gave my first husband a Harley antique T bird,
Speaker 1: you know, a Corvette on this you know, all the
Speaker 1: things that the other husband's got. And he's like, yeah, wow, okay,
Speaker 1: now I'm much more sensible and less impulsive about like
Speaker 1: financial decisions.
Speaker 2: Right. I was dating this guy after my first marriage ended.
Speaker 2: I was dating this guy for a number of years,
Speaker 2: and he was sort of he should have been a rebound,
Speaker 2: like it should have been a few months. He was
Speaker 2: like a hot trainer. But it turned into three and
Speaker 2: a half years and he, you know, he was he
Speaker 2: was really in love with me, I'd say, and he
Speaker 2: wanted to go to the next step and I wasn't
Speaker 2: going to do that. And I remember I bought him
Speaker 2: a car, Like I gave him money to buy a car,
Speaker 2: and because I wanted to show my level of commitment
Speaker 2: to him, but I didn't want to commit like like further,
Speaker 2: like letting him move in or anything. So I did.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and that's like ridiculous. Why like like
Speaker 2: the fact that I did. I can look back and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, recky, you know, and the
Speaker 2: fact that he took it, the fact that he took it,
Speaker 2: but anyway, anyway.
Speaker 1: And he drove it right on out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I actually what I did is I gave
Speaker 2: him the money. I didn't even I gave him the
Speaker 2: money to buy the car of his choosing, basically a
Speaker 2: certain amount of money. I think it was like forty grand.
Speaker 2: I think it was forty grand. And of course I
Speaker 2: can remember that. And this is like in two thousand
Speaker 2: and five or two thousand and six, and yeah, so
Speaker 2: I gave him like and I was like, look, you
Speaker 2: can get whatever you want, but like you'd be an
Speaker 2: idiot to spend more than the forty grand, you know.
Speaker 2: And I don't even remember what he got, but that
Speaker 2: was like an example of me just like that's like
Speaker 2: it's like whatever, I don't look back on that as
Speaker 2: like a fond memory.
Speaker 1: This is true. This is true.
Speaker 2: He probably doesn't either, maybe.
Speaker 1: Hoefully he's not listening. You've been really open about your
Speaker 1: previous husband, Christian, who you talked about briefly here and
Speaker 1: there in this conversation, how he suffered from mental disease bipolar.
Speaker 1: I think, yes, he was bipolar. How did did you
Speaker 1: know about his mental struggles before you married him?
Speaker 2: I did, I did when we got together. And our
Speaker 2: story is so crazy. We met through a house fire,
Speaker 2: like I accidentally started a house fire in the house
Speaker 2: I was living in. The house burned down, and that's
Speaker 2: what kind of brought us together. And it was one
Speaker 2: of those like it never should have happened. It's it's inexplicable,
Speaker 2: Like I can't cut wrap my head around why that happened,
Speaker 2: other than it was divine intervention. And I was supposed
Speaker 2: to get together with Christian, and we got together very quickly,
Speaker 2: and he told me, oh, I've been diagnosed by polar
Speaker 2: and me, I didn't google it. I just said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm a control freak. We all have our things like
Speaker 2: like like that's because I didn't know what bipolar meant.
Speaker 2: I just I was that's always okay. It's like some
Speaker 2: sort of condition that you just kind of deal with,
Speaker 2: like I ADHD, you know, and so I never saw
Speaker 2: so he always was low lying depression, like the depressed.
Speaker 2: And he was suicidal actually when I met him, So
Speaker 2: like us getting together and him being a man of
Speaker 2: his word, when he committed to me, he changed his course.
Speaker 2: He was planning to take his life at that time.
Speaker 2: So he was someone that struggled with chronic pain. He
Speaker 2: was someone who he had learning issues. He was brilliant
Speaker 2: and special and amazing, and he also had these incredible challenges.
Speaker 2: And so I knew when I married him that I
Speaker 2: was going to be taking care of him for the
Speaker 2: rest of his life. I was going to be his caretaker,
Speaker 2: you know. And I very much was his caretaker. I
Speaker 2: you know, he couldn't hold a job and all those things,
Speaker 2: but you know, we were very much in love. And
Speaker 2: I believe when he did decide to he couldn't take
Speaker 2: it anymore in this body, in this in this three
Speaker 2: D body meat suit, he chose to check out. But
Speaker 2: I believe he like I took care of him when
Speaker 2: he was here, and he is taking care of me
Speaker 2: right now. Wherever he is. And you know, bipolar is
Speaker 2: something that I mean, bipolar people are the most extraordinarily
Speaker 2: special and charismatic and challenged. You know, it's like they're
Speaker 2: both and and he see living through the psychotic episodes
Speaker 2: that I lived through with him and the mania. You know,
Speaker 2: I mostly dealt with him being like under, you know,
Speaker 2: being under like always like hard to get out of bed,
Speaker 2: hard to motivate, you know, just like just like you know,
Speaker 2: he couldn't kind of like rise to like you know,
Speaker 2: a baseline that was like functioning, you know, and but
Speaker 2: then when the mania trips in, then you oh my god,
Speaker 2: he's like on fire. He's got all these ideas and
Speaker 2: he's getting up in the morning with me and he's
Speaker 2: oil pulling and he's going on a run. And I
Speaker 2: mean it was just like seeing him like at his
Speaker 2: best self. But then, you know, when you're not medicated
Speaker 2: and when you're not being treated in some way, you
Speaker 2: just keep going up and up and up to where
Speaker 2: they think he thought he was. He was God, and
Speaker 2: he thought he could cure cancer with his hands, and
Speaker 2: he didn't need his range Rover, so he left it
Speaker 2: on the side of the road because he could time
Speaker 2: travel and he could. I mean, it was like that
Speaker 2: kind of crazy that was really really so traumatizing. Isn't
Speaker 2: a strong enough word for what I kind of experience
Speaker 2: for me of seeing him change on a dime and
Speaker 2: not being able to save him. Like that's the other thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm this manifesto, I've been able to really
Speaker 2: like take care of things, you know, I'm someone that
Speaker 2: like I can fix stuff, I can pay for stuff,
Speaker 2: I can find the best person. And in this case
Speaker 2: my beloved suffering partner, I could not save him, and
Speaker 2: that was really hard to come to terms with, you know.
Speaker 2: But I am not God. And he was here for
Speaker 2: as long as he was supposed to be here, and
Speaker 2: he was my greatest teacher, like a great love, like
Speaker 2: I would have said, my greatest love. And I would
Speaker 2: never have been lucky enough to find love again. But
Speaker 2: I do feel like he was the step before for
Speaker 2: me to get to where I am now with this
Speaker 2: relationship with my new husband, Ross, who is the pinnacle
Speaker 2: of partners and and I think the work I did
Speaker 2: through getting healing from the loss of Christian made me
Speaker 2: be in a place where I could recognize the quality
Speaker 2: of human that I am attracting now, you know, because
Speaker 2: I would attract I mean the people that I was
Speaker 2: going to say got inside of me. But like you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely am. It was less discerning than
Speaker 2: than I am now. And now I'm with I'm just
Speaker 2: with the most beautiful person for me, and yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's the best. It's honestly the best.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when you had that I Choose me
Speaker 1: moment where you were like, I'm going to let love
Speaker 1: happen for me again, because I know you were which time,
Speaker 1: I mean, this last thing feeling from that massive loss
Speaker 1: and all that went with that, and then you met
Speaker 1: Ross and you came to was it an impulsive to
Speaker 1: say when you met Ross too? Or was that something
Speaker 1: that you had to like choose to go down that
Speaker 1: road again?
Speaker 2: You know, I was dating someone else, So I was dating.
Speaker 2: So here's okay, Okay, I was turning a wild woman.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: I know I was openly dating. So just you know,
Speaker 2: I don't cheat. I've never cheated, and as far as
Speaker 2: I know, I have never been cheated on in my life.
Speaker 2: I have never dealt with infidelity as far as I know.
Speaker 2: So I'm dealing with the hair stuff. I'm wearing these extensions.
Speaker 2: I'm keeping like the whole thing is secret because I'm
Speaker 2: so ashamed by it. And I'm turning fifty. Okay, I've
Speaker 2: lost my partner. I've lost what I think is going
Speaker 2: to be the last great love of my life. How
Speaker 2: do I Who's going to want me in my fifties?
Speaker 2: You know? And then I shaved my head and I'm
Speaker 2: dating this guy and it's not I was holding on
Speaker 2: for dear life with this guy even though he was
Speaker 2: the wrong guy. And from the beginning he told me
Speaker 2: like he told me he doesn't want partnership. He wanted
Speaker 2: to be free, a free spirit, a Peter Pan. He
Speaker 2: wanted that, you know. So it's like, I what do
Speaker 2: I do when I want something, I'm gonna I'm going
Speaker 2: to like push that square bag in that round hole,
Speaker 2: no matter what. And so I was distracted in this
Speaker 2: relationship that was not making me happy. And Ross comes
Speaker 2: into the picture. I was introduced to him by a
Speaker 2: mutual friend. I you know, I went out with him
Speaker 2: because I was in an open you know. The guy
Speaker 2: wanted an open thing. So I'm like, all right, whatever, wait.
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, yeah, you are
Speaker 1: in an open relationship.
Speaker 2: Yes, but for me, I was thinking, oh, I'm so
Speaker 2: open minded, I'm a free spirit. Okay, yeah, But turns
Speaker 2: out it brought out the worst in me. I was
Speaker 2: so jealous. I was so insecure. I'm not insecure. I
Speaker 2: told you, I love myself. I love every square inch
Speaker 2: of myself. And I was becoming this person that I
Speaker 2: did not recognize. And it was really Again, it was
Speaker 2: another learning experience for me because I find out that
Speaker 2: I'm actually a serial monogamist, like I actually, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not as open as I thought I was. So
Speaker 2: I was with that guy this beginning of the pandemic.
Speaker 2: The guy was perfectly nice guy. He just wasn't the guy.
Speaker 2: But I'm thinking he's the guy because there's no other guy.
Speaker 2: And I've got the gray. My hair was shaved, so
Speaker 2: I had like half inch of gray hair. I thought
Speaker 2: I look great, but I was. You know, I'm definitely
Speaker 2: not everyone's type. And I get introduced to Ross and
Speaker 2: what drew me to him is that he grew up Mormon.
Speaker 2: He grew up Mormon. Then this is before the Real
Speaker 2: Housewives of Salt Lake City. Okay, but I'm like fascinated
Speaker 2: I'm an next talk show host. I love like humanity
Speaker 2: and and so I was curious. I went out with
Speaker 2: him literally to talk his ear off about Mormonism and
Speaker 2: just to hear all the crazy stuff that goes on
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. He and he's also six foot six, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's a giant. I am five ' three. On a
Speaker 2: good day, I was wearing a moomoo. I was wearing
Speaker 2: a giant moumou. He said I looked like I was
Speaker 2: four hundred pounds. He said it was false advertising. But yeah,
Speaker 2: we went out and it was not a love connection
Speaker 2: like the first date was not. It was like one
Speaker 2: of those awkward COVID like hugs. You know you want
Speaker 2: to hug, but like you don't want to die from it,
Speaker 2: and so it was just like bye, see you again,
Speaker 2: you know never, and we we. I reached out to
Speaker 2: him like three weeks after that, when I was medicating
Speaker 2: self medicating at home on a couple of cocktails and
Speaker 2: another thing that we won't mention, but basically I was
Speaker 2: like hi, and I wrote him, you know, I'd broken
Speaker 2: up with the other guy again. We've gotten back together,
Speaker 2: broke up again, And I wrote Ross. I was like,
Speaker 2: are we ever going to hang out again? He's like sure,
Speaker 2: and I was like, come over. And he was a
Speaker 2: five minute walk from my house where I was living.
Speaker 2: I was living in the Marina. Five minute walk. He
Speaker 2: walks over and is like sandals and his red solo,
Speaker 2: spicy marg and a cup and yeah, I mean, truth
Speaker 2: be told. I did tell him. I warned him that
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to I can't believe I'm want
Speaker 2: to say this. I warned him that I'm going to
Speaker 2: be the best lover he's ever had.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love it, You're confident.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, and then I passed out and then
Speaker 2: he you know. So basically that was our meet cute story,
Speaker 2: and then we became each other. Well, he became my
Speaker 2: booty call for a number of months while I was
Speaker 2: still seeing the other guy. I was very open. I
Speaker 2: told raw, look, I'm a little bit bit of a
Speaker 2: head case, blah blah blah. But then I literally saw
Speaker 2: the light. I don't know if you follow like like
Speaker 2: the moon and astrology in the moon and like, so
Speaker 2: there was a super blue moon on Halloween of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that rings a bell to you,
Speaker 2: but it was just a big thing, and my friends
Speaker 2: were telling me, oh, this is a portal you know,
Speaker 2: knowing and have an intention. Da da dah. And so
Speaker 2: that was the night. We've been dating for like three
Speaker 2: months casually, and that was the night on Halloween night
Speaker 2: where I literally it was like a rom com where
Speaker 2: I looked and did a double take in my house.
Speaker 2: He came over and i'd cause I wrote him I
Speaker 2: was supposed to a party and I canceled, and then
Speaker 2: I wrote to him and I was like, hey, come over,
Speaker 2: and this time he put his foot down and he's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll come over, but I'm staying over this time. You're
Speaker 2: gonna have to deal with me in the morning, because
Speaker 2: every other time he'd left, you know, when we finished.
Speaker 2: And so we that night he came over and he
Speaker 2: sat on my couch. I remember looking at him and
Speaker 2: doing a double take, and I was like, Oh, it's you.
Speaker 2: It's always been you are the one. And that was it,
Speaker 2: Like it's like the light bulb went on over my head.
Speaker 2: And then he was he'd been waiting and he doesn't
Speaker 2: like to admit that, but he was. He was in
Speaker 2: love with me and waiting for me to come around
Speaker 2: and we've been together ever since. That was Halloween of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty and we got married in January twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: And we are the happiest people in our fifties that
Speaker 2: I think you'll ever meet. It's like when it's right,
Speaker 2: it's right. We've never had an argument, we've never had
Speaker 2: a crossword, we've never gotten sick of each other, and
Speaker 2: we spend all of our time together when we're not working.
Speaker 2: It's which is a lot.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I love this conversation so much.
Speaker 2: It's so good.
Speaker 1: It's so good. We're going to continue this conver We
Speaker 1: are going to continue it, but on your podcast Yay.
Speaker 1: Before we go, I want to ask you, Ricky Lake,
Speaker 1: what was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2: This morning, I choose to take really good care of
Speaker 2: my body and my mind. And so I go on
Speaker 2: a hike every single morning. As I said, I live
Speaker 2: in Malibu, and I go out o my door and
Speaker 2: I do a three mile hike with my dog, most
Speaker 2: of the time with my husband. This morning, he didn't
Speaker 2: join me, and then I forced myself to go to
Speaker 2: my Lagrie pilates class. I do that three to four
Speaker 2: times a week, and so it's you know, it's like,
Speaker 2: would I rather stay in bed sometimes? But no, this
Speaker 2: is done so much for my body and my mind
Speaker 2: and my spirit, and so that is what I did.
Speaker 2: That was absolutely a choose me moment.
Speaker 1: Love it. Hey, I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait. Be there, be square.
Speaker 1: This conversation with Ricky has been too good. We are
Speaker 1: going to continue part two over on her podcast, The
Speaker 1: High Life. We'll link to the episode in our show notes,
Speaker 1: so be sure to check the rest of this conversation
Speaker 1: out as we continue to choose ourselves each week. I
Speaker 1: want you to do something fun for yourself this week
Speaker 1: that will be a mood booster whenever you need it.
Speaker 1: I want you to make a playlist of all your
Speaker 1: favorite upbeat songs, music you want to sing and roll
Speaker 1: down the windows. Two songs that make you want to
Speaker 1: dance in the kitchen while you're cooking. No sad emo
Speaker 1: songs on this playlist. Okay, music can be so therapeutic.
Speaker 1: I want you to make your own I Choose Me playlist.
Speaker 1: You will find the song in a Mood by Ice
Speaker 1: Spice online. It always puts me in a good mood.
Speaker 1: I don't know there's just something about it. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to I Choose Me. You can check out all
Speaker 1: the social links in our show notes and the link
Speaker 1: to part two of this incredible conversation with Ricky Lake.
Speaker 1: So rate and review the podcast and use the hashtag
Speaker 1: I Choose Me. I hope you'll be here with me
Speaker 1: next week. I love you, guys,