1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Hey, listeners, if you're listening to this on the day 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: that it drops Friday, I just wanted to let you 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: know that it is one of my favorite people's birthdays, 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: and that is Annie. Annie has been such a terrific 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: co host of this show. You know, I've been so 6 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: so happy to produce Sminty with her. She's amazing. It's 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: great for me because you know, y'all that's got a 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: taste of how amazing she is. Every Wednesday and Friday 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: I get to have her all the time. So happy birthday, Annie. 10 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: We are so so grateful to have you on the 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: show and just in the world, and we hope it's 12 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: a great one. So listeners, Uh, Annie doesn't know I'm 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 1: doing this, so'll be sure to show her some love 14 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: on social media. Show where that birthday love and Annie, 15 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: we love you so much. Hi, this is Annie, and 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: this is Bridget and you're listening to stuff Mom never 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: told you. And one thing that has happened since I 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: became an outspoken feminist um and have started working on 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: the show in particular, is that any time a story 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: breaks about sexism or that it's tangentially related to sexism, 21 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: people text me about people are always like, have you 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: heard about this? Are you're going to talk about this 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: on the show? And I bet the same. It's true 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: for a lot of your listeners. Is the same true 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: for you bridget Oh so true? So true. I don't 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: even need like a Google alert, you guys A let 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: us know. Yes, And today's topic is no exception. Um, 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about Tokyo Medical Institute. On August eight, an 29 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: investigation revealed that the test scores at Tokyo Medical University 30 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: had been regularly doctored, which is a pun that I 31 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: made on accident to keep women out. Tokyo Medical University 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: is a really well known and respected university in Japan 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: um and it was chosen to receive special funds from 34 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: the government to increase female attendance. So this is a 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: big deal and it has been going on for over 36 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: a decade. Some women claim to have heard rumors that 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: the university was engaging in this practice, and from the 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: university's internal report quote, this can only be described as 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: serious discrimination against women and it deserves strong criticism. Okay, 40 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: So when I first heard about this, I was thinking, 41 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: maybe it's this sort of implicit thing where they're every 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: third woman, they're giving a hard time. No, this is 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: a systematic and very specific method of keeping women out 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: in a way that's almost cartoonishly evil. When I was 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: reading for what they actually did and how specific the 46 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: numbers were behind how they were keeping women out, this 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: is like a plot from a Bond movie. It was. 48 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: It was so intense. Yeah, and not only did the 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: university lower the scores for female applicants, it also helped 50 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: certain individuals, usually the family members of donors, usually men 51 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: also called priority males, by raising their scores. So here's 52 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: how they did it. Um on the essay portion of 53 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: the exam, which was marked out of one hundred, was 54 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: taken off automatically men who had taken the test three 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: times or less, so most men got twenty bonus marks. 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: So for a man and a woman who got the 57 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: same test score, say eighty, but the man had taken 58 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: the test three times or less, he would get a 59 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: score of an eighty four and the woman would get 60 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: a score of a sixty four. It's it's so cartoonishly evil. 61 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: To the goal was a so called quote silent understanding 62 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: to decrease female enrollment from Yeah, they were trying to 63 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: get it down to which again, is so horrible, and 64 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: that they were receiving money to in order to increase 65 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: the female population at the school. Right yeah. Investigation into 66 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: possible score altering launched after a scandal came to light 67 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: around a higher up in the education ministry that um 68 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: he had bribed the former chairman of the school's board 69 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: of regents and the former president of the university to 70 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: grant the official son entry into the university after he 71 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 1: did poorly on the test hashtag poorly performing me it'll 72 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: catch on one day, No, I I badly. We should 73 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: put that on a shirt hashtag or like I guess 74 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: a woman wouldn't want to wear it. I don't. We'll 75 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: figure it out. We'll sort it out. But it's my 76 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: favorite thing, and we gotta make it happen. I think 77 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: we will thirty five million yen in government subsidies for 78 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: the school in exchange for his son's acceptance. That's what 79 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: the officials the investigation found. So it's well that it's 80 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: not just blatant sexism keeping women out. It's giving priority males. 81 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: You know, men who have these connections, men who are 82 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: the sons of donors, giving them a leg up. It's 83 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: like this, it's like working in tangent with each other. Yeah, 84 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: like sexism and nepotism on how to baby. And it's 85 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: this that is exactly how I would describe it. Another 86 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: possible red flag is that for nearly every subject other 87 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: than medicine, women have a higher pass trate on the 88 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: intrance exam, but um, for for this particular interest exam medicine, 89 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: it was six to five men to women. So when 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: the news of this broke, the managing director and vice 91 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: president of the university apologized and promised that it would 92 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 1: never happen again, and said they were looking into ways 93 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: to making it up to the women who had been 94 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: denied access to the university. UM, I can't imagine what 95 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: that would look like unless it's just we are now 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: at all female university, you know, I can't. I can't imagine, Like, 97 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: how do you how do you make that up to someone? 98 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: They said? Um, And by the way, they don't know 99 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: how many women this impacted, but they suspect it's thousands 100 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: at least. Um. They were talking about maybe reimbursing, because 101 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: you have to pay to take the test, you have 102 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: debate to take the test, so reimbursing the test fees. 103 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: But how does that make it. I mean sure that 104 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,239 Speaker 1: that's the least they can do is make them financially whole. 105 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: But it's almost one of those things where let's say 106 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,239 Speaker 1: that I was a prominent, you know, so prominent medical 107 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: student and I wanted to go to this medical school 108 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: and I could have gotten in and my life could 109 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: have been so different, and you know, I could have 110 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: had untold success. Like, you can't reimburse somebody for what 111 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: you've taken from them when what you've taken is is potential, 112 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, No, certainly not a 113 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: test fee is going to make up for for just 114 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: a lost opportunity. So the vice president said, I suspect 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 1: that there was a lack of sensitivity to the rules 116 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: of modern society in which women should not be treated 117 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: differently because of their gender. Yeah you think you think, yeah, 118 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: he might be onto something there. Yeah, sounds like you 119 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. The reason given for this practice 120 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: of trying to keep women out was the belief that 121 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: women would be more likely to quit after getting married, 122 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: are getting pregnant having children, which is pregnancy discrimination, just 123 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: like we were talking about in our episode on the 124 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: New Zealand Prime minister. University officials told local reporters that 125 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: it created an intolerable burden on already overworked doctors, and 126 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: that the university was well within their legal rights to 127 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: choose who to accept b s. Come on, I mean, 128 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is tail as oldest time 129 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: you know in America. Women certainly deal with pregnancy discrimination, 130 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: but this idea that the university they're well within their 131 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: rights to systematically scam women out of a place in 132 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: a medical school that they've earned through hard work because 133 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: they are worried that they're gonna have children and take 134 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: time off. But that's that's no, that's wrong, Yes, flat 135 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: out wrong, And there are a lot of things to 136 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: unpack around um. Japan's aging population putting more and more 137 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: pressure on hospitals. That creates an environment of understaffed hospitals 138 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: and long work hours. But there are certainly better solutions 139 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: than essentially cheating to keep women out of their profession. 140 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just blaming women for societal problems. Of course, 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: understaffed and overworked hospital staff is a problem, but these 142 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: are larger societal problems. It's not individual women's fault for 143 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: daring to be women, you know, and trying to become doctors, 144 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: like is like putting the blame on these women who 145 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: have the audacity to want to go to medical school 146 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: as opposed to social services, your government and all of that. Yeah, 147 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk more about that later because 148 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: there is so much other things keeping women out of 149 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: the medical profession. But um, some media reports to indicate 150 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: in Japan, seventy of women leave their job after kids, 151 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: but it's because they don't have access to good childcare. 152 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: The hours are really long, and they're also expected to 153 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: do the housework and take care of the elders in 154 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: the family, which is like three other jobs. Um. And 155 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: a story broke pretty recently about how a woman was 156 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: reprimanded for having a baby before it was her quote turn, 157 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: and that she was supposed to stick to a timetable 158 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: for when she could have kids. She worked at a 159 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: child care center, and these centers are under enormous stress. 160 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: Fifty five thousand children are on the wait list for 161 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: certified childcare centers. Women in other careers have reported getting 162 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: similar childbirth schedules. So, of course, as you might imagine, 163 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: women were not having it. They were furious. They took 164 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: to social media with the hashtag It's Okay to be 165 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: Angry about Sexism to share their stories of betrayal and sexism, 166 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: and they faced um. Women wrote about how they were 167 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: asked with jobs that are getting pregnant as if it 168 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: was just understood, and now they were seeing women after 169 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: women after women quit their job after getting pregnant and 170 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: having no examples of the fact that they could have 171 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: a career and a family. Yeah. One woman wrote, I 172 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: ignored my parents who said women don't belong in academia, 173 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: and got into the best university in Japan. But in 174 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: job interviews, I'm told if you were a man, we'd 175 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: hire you right away. My enemy wasn't my parents, but 176 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: all society itself. Students protested at the university, hearing science 177 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: that said things like you trampled on the efforts and 178 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: lives of women who trusted and chose you. Um and 179 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: like I said, you have to pay to take the exam, 180 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: and several women who had their scores altered are seeking compensation. 181 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't have applied if I'd known the unfair 182 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: odds that I've faced. And that's part of the problem too, 183 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: because think of the young girls in Japan hearing this 184 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: story and thinking it doesn't matter how much I study, 185 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: the medical field is not a place for women. That 186 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: they don't want me. Yeah, And that's why I was 187 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: so almost sort of baffled by this idea that they 188 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: could quote make this make us right, or you know, 189 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: pay these women to you know, make them feel whole. 190 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: You can't. There's no amount of money that is going 191 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: to correct that damage of being a woman or a 192 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: girl who worked hard to become a doctor. And that 193 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: idea that it doesn't matter how hard you work, they 194 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: don't want me in this field, right, Like, that has 195 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: probably done immeasurable damage for gender parity in the medical 196 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: field in Japan, and like there's no amount of money 197 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: that can fix that. Yeah. And it's also damaged people's 198 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: trust in other universities and people starting to raise questions 199 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: about um similar institutions with low female attendance, and and 200 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: it has also brought the issue of gender inequality and 201 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: sexism in Japan back into the spotlight. Japan rinks out 202 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: of one forty four when it comes to gender inequality, 203 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: a cord into the World Economic Forum. The gap is 204 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: particularly evident in specialized fields requiring high levels of expertise, 205 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: despite the fact that women in Japan at a global 206 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: level scores some of the highest literacy and numerical scores, 207 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: and this is something Prime Minister Shinzo Abbe has been 208 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: trying to combat with his woman Omics program, which at 209 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: its most basic is aimed at increasing the number of 210 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: women in the workplace. A place where all women will 211 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: shine is the kind of tagline for this woman Onmics program. 212 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: And while we're focusing on women in medicine today, by 213 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: no means is this problem unique to that field exactly, 214 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: but for the medical profession in Japan specifically, since to 215 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: thus on three the number of women in the industry 216 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: has stayed around one third. This number also racist suspicions 217 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: that other medical schools have probably been sort of manipulating 218 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: the numbers to keep women out as well. The O 219 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: E c D found that twenty one percent of Japanese 220 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: positions are female and us less than half of the 221 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: average of the uncovery of the Tokyo Medical universities wrong 222 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: doomings has sparked major outrage and an investigation into all 223 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: medical universities in Japan, But maybe the rest of the 224 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: world should be looking at this and doing some reflection 225 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: as well. We'll get more into what we mean after 226 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: this quick break and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. Yeah. So, 227 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: unfortunately this problem is not localized to Japan, which I'm 228 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: sure is a surprise to everyone listening. We talked a 229 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,359 Speaker 1: little bit about this and our women in Pain episode, 230 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: but discrimination against women in the medical fields is pretty 231 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: common throughout the world. It's wide spread. I mean, I 232 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: don't want to give the message that we're just singling 233 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: out Japan, because in our country, the United States, this 234 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: is certainly a problem as well. Yeah, the past two decades, 235 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: female entrance to the medical field has equaled that to 236 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: their male counterparts, but the burnout rate for women in 237 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: the US is double. This is often reframed as individual 238 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 1: failures and that's a quote that could have been avoided 239 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: by being a better negotiator, by not having kids. And yes, 240 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: women report having received this advice in private. And this 241 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: ignores the sexism and discrimination women face at every level 242 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: that a lot of you listeners have written into us 243 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: about that is causing them to drop out. Absolutely, So 244 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to make people think that, you know, 245 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: you shouldn't want to be a good negotiator. Or you know, 246 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: be your best employee or whatever. But we also can't 247 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: discount the fact that society is messed up. If there's 248 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: sort of no, you can't negotiate your way out of 249 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: institutional sexism. And so we can't pretend that these are 250 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: the individual failings of women. And that's why you have 251 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: this burnout rate, and that's why you have this lack 252 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: of gender parity in the medical field. You need to 253 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: look at the entire situation and a lot about a 254 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: societal and widespread Yeah, like sexual harassment. UM women in 255 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: the medical field experienced seven times the amount of harassment 256 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: as men, and with forty of women reporting receiving a 257 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: negative remark from a patient about their gender as opposed 258 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: to six percent of men getting paid less for the 259 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: same work. Everything accounted for about twenty thousand dollars less 260 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: a year. And UM women aren't equally represented in academia either. 261 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: In medical schools across the country, women make up fifteen 262 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: cent of department shares and sixteen percent of deems. Think 263 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: about that for a second. Yeah, that's wild as wild. 264 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: Since two thousand eight, women only are awarded about thirty 265 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: of tenured positions, and studies have found that gender bias 266 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: comes into play when it comes to residency evaluations, which 267 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: sets women back in average of four months, and these 268 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: are extremely important for students in the medical field, potentially 269 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: impacting fellowship placement and research awards. Other studies found that 270 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: female physicians were less likely to get help from nurses 271 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: than male physicians, and we're also viewed more negatively for 272 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: making the same mistakes as their male counterparts. Compared to 273 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: the rest of the population. Female doctors are anywhere from 274 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: two to four times more likely to commit suicide. That's 275 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: so sad. My mom is a doctor and none of 276 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: this surprises me. She's completely overworked. She tells me things 277 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: that her patients will say to her. You know, I 278 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: don't want a black woman doctor. People feel really comfortable 279 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: making sexist and sometimes racist comments about women and people 280 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: of color in the medical field. And another part of 281 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: the conversation is nurses. Nurses report rate of sexual harassment 282 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: of seventy So if you're a woman or someone marginalized 283 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: in the medical community, it's like you just can't get 284 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: a break. Yeah, And certainly that would contribute to that 285 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: the high dropout rate that we were talking about, and 286 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: going back to pregnancy discrimination. One in three female physicians 287 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: reported experiencing this and being unable to follow the recommendations 288 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: they give to new mothers. Um. I hadn't really thought 289 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: about that before, but to tell a new mother, this 290 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: is what you need to take care of yourself, and 291 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: knowing that you can't follow your own advice since we 292 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: don't have much in the way of maternity leave here 293 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: in the United States, having children and then practically zer 294 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: support from the institutions that have been designed without you 295 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: in mind, um, maybe even to keep you out. That 296 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: that plays into the high burn out rate as well. 297 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: And the situation is similar in both the UK and Australia, 298 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: where more women graduate from medical schools, but that does 299 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: not reflect outside of university, where they support a similar 300 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: wage gap to the United States and to study out 301 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: of Canada from three found that seventy of female doctors 302 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: experienced sexual harassment from patients. A similar study out of 303 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: Ireland from found that number to be six And it's 304 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: bad when I'm like, oh, only sixty um, and respondents 305 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: reported gender based bullying. And that's so bad because, as 306 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: we were just talking about, so many hospitals and medical 307 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: facilities are already dealing with overwork burnout understats like they 308 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: already have legitimate issues that they are facing in their workplaces. 309 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: That added, you know, bullying and gender based harassment and 310 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: sexual harassment on top of that, I mean, I can't 311 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: even imagine. Of course they're burnt out. Of course they're 312 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: leaving the industry, of course. And the New Zealand Harold 313 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: reported this year that one out of ten junior doctors 314 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: experienced or witnessed sexual harassment, but that there was a 315 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: culture of sexual intimidation and that many women were too 316 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: afraid to speak out against male colleagues. From that report, quote, 317 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: female staff thought putting up with a certain amount of 318 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: sexual harassment was part and parcel of being a female doctor. God, 319 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: doesn't that sound like so many other industries. You would 320 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: think that, you know, people who are doctors are sort 321 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,479 Speaker 1: of sort of enjoyed at elevated position in society, as 322 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: they should. But it's so interesting to me that even 323 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: in this respected industry, it's the same as when you 324 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: are working in the sortvice industry, or when you are 325 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: working in and lots of other kinds of industries where 326 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: you just internalize that, yeah, putting up with sexual harassment. 327 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: It's just part of being a doctor when you're a woman. Yeah, 328 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: it's so infuriating that we just kind of accept it 329 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: and keep hearing similar things over and over again. But 330 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: clearly this is a problem in in a lot of countries. Um, 331 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: and I hope that we can start moving towards a solution, 332 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: and we do have some potential solutions. But first we're 333 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: going to stop for one more quick break for word 334 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Alright, So, 335 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: keeping women and minorities who face similar obstacles from becoming 336 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: physicians impacts patient care and the quality of care a 337 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: country can provide. And as we say so often on 338 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: this show, ultimately it's about respecting and valuing women. But 339 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: to drill in on some specifics, don't cheat to allow 340 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: more men to your university step one. I would think 341 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: that would not need to be spelled out in such 342 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: explicit terms. For university officials who probably have parts of 343 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: their curriculum that spell out that their students shouldn't be cheating, 344 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: they need to be told lot to cheat as well. 345 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: But here we are. You know, don't cheat. It's bad. Yeah, 346 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: providing support structures at all levels, like more flexible work schedules, 347 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: maternity care, merit based programs. Those are things that could 348 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: help prevent that burnout. Yeah, and then lastly, have clear 349 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: structure and pathways for reporting sexual violence sexual harassment. Now, 350 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: of course this is complicated and it comes with its 351 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: own set of complications around it, of course, but it's 352 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: a good step. You know, not having any clear pathway 353 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: for what to do with someone sexually harass you on 354 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: the job is not good. Yeah. I read a lot 355 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: of stories from women in the medical field who said 356 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: they didn't know who to talk to. So at least 357 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: having that and being able to make decision to go 358 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: report sexual harassment, that's a step in the right direction. 359 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: And our yeah, our heart goes out to all the 360 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: women in Japan kept out of Tokyo Medical University. Oh 361 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: my god, I want them to have eyes up and 362 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: like burn that place to the ground. I'm so angry 363 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: on their behalf. And yeah, and my heart beyond that, 364 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: my heart goes out to if you're overworked, stressed out 365 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: doctor or nurse driving to your five am shift and 366 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: you haven't slept and you you know, my heart goes 367 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: out to all of y'all. I mean, I see how 368 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: hard my mom works, as she works really hard, and 369 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: it's actually kind of thankless. People think that being a 370 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: doctor means that you're rich, and you know, all you 371 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: do is walk around the statyscople around your neck and 372 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: get handshakes all day and it's really hard. Like I 373 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: see how hard she works, and it's I know, it 374 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: can be kind of thankless, and I yeah, my heart 375 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: goes out to yall. I don't know how y'll do it. Yeah. 376 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: I have a lot of people in the medical profession 377 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: in my family and seeing their work hours and just 378 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: hearing about all of the stress and the things they 379 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: have to deal with that are above and beyond like 380 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: the job that they trained for a bit like dealing 381 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: with difficult patients. Um. I'm always kind of taken aback 382 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: by it. Yeah, it's a lot to ask of one person. 383 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: It is a lot. Yeah, we would love to hear 384 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: from any listeners in the medical field about about this stuff. Um. 385 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: And this does bring us to a listener mail. Before 386 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: we read the mail today, I did want to say 387 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: thanks to everyone who's written in about the changing your 388 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: Name episode. Is so many emails. I had no idea 389 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: that this was such a. I mean, I guess I 390 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: did know, but I had no idea. We heard from 391 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: people who were getting divorced, people who were depressed that 392 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: they're changing their name, people who were super happy to 393 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: change their name because their partner had an awesome last name. 394 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: But this, there's so many So we should do a 395 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: follow up for another episode on it because it just 396 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: raised such an interesting conversation. Yeah, I was thinking we 397 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: could probably do an entire episode where we just read emails, 398 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: people have sent in messages, people have sent in of 399 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: their story, because I found it was also personal all 400 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: and different people, the reasons people had for changing their 401 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: name or not changing their name or whatever ended up happening. 402 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: And yes, I apologize to all women in Canada. It 403 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: is not all women in kid that cannot change their 404 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: name legally. It's only in Quebec. So I'll probably be 405 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: hearing about that until the end of time. But that's 406 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: all right, that's okay. You know, we all make mistakes. Annie, Yes, 407 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: and everyone's been very kind in correcting me, which I appreciate. 408 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: I hope I didn't cause any panic of people like, 409 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: oh my god, god, I wrote the law. Somebody out 410 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: there is is if you if you need to stuff 411 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: pay your legal fees because you heard that you've broken 412 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: the law and you consulted a lawyer, let us know. 413 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not gonna pay them, but let us know. 414 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: I make a personal apology video or something. I'm sure 415 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: that's worth legal fees, right, Okay, So our first letter 416 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: today is from Meredith. She wrote, one of the biggest 417 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: impacts fan fiction has had on me was introducing me 418 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: to the LGBTQ community. I drew up in a well off, 419 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: predominantly white community in California, where lgbt people weren't necessarily shunned, 420 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: but they were just not talked about. I distinctly remember 421 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: there were two gay couples in my neighborhood, but other 422 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: than knowing of their existence, it was never talked about. 423 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: When I first stumbled upon fan fiction in high school, 424 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: I quickly learned about slash VIC. I remember being uncomfortable 425 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: with it at first because heteronormativity was so ingrained in 426 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: my brain that I couldn't wrap my head around wanting 427 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: to pair two male characters together. At first, I would 428 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: avoid all slash fix and even gravitate towards the fix 429 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: that turned one of the males and the pairing into 430 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: a girl. I even started writing a fix where one 431 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: of the main characters was actually a girl in disguise 432 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: as a boy, so that I could pair him with 433 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: another male character. Looking back, I crunched at how heteronormative 434 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: and homophobic this trope is, But after continuing to read 435 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: fan fiction, I soulely became more accustomed to the idea 436 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: of queer characters and slash pairings. By the time I 437 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: entered college, the LGBT community had become normalized. For me. 438 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: I stopped considering the gender of two characters when shipping 439 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: and started only looking at the dynamic between them. I 440 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: know there's a lot of fotitization that goes on with 441 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: m l M FICK, but for me, I usually gravitate 442 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: towards those pairings, not because it is MLM, but because 443 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: in media we get so many more dynamic and interesting 444 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: male characters that it is just easier to find two 445 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: compatible male characters to pair together, rather than forcing the 446 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: token female to pick one of the males. Fan fix 447 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: helped me discover my own queer identity and that sexuality 448 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: and gender identity can be freely explored. I can hear 449 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: the diversity of authors voices through their work, and I 450 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: have learned about so many queer identities. Just the exposure 451 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: to these identities helped me identify my own and realized 452 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: that I was not the only one with these kinds 453 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: of feelings. I look forward to the day when mainstream 454 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: media embraces the diversity of identities that fan fiction already has. 455 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if this has been in it's by 456 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: fan fiction at all, but just in the last few years, 457 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: we have gotten some real progress with representation in children's media, 458 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: with several cartoons such as Legend of Cora, Stephen Universe, 459 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: and Voltron having some cannon gay and by characters, as 460 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: well as disabled characters and poc. Legend of Cora introduced 461 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: me to the only acceptable love triangle trope, where at 462 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: first both girls fight over a boy and then decide 463 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: he is not worth it and date each other instead. 464 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god, my favorite trope. I love it. I 465 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: love it. I used to One of my favorite shows 466 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: is Gilmur Girls, and I used to always want have 467 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: you to watch that show? I alays wanted Rory in 468 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: Paris when they were fighting over this awful guy and 469 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: they're in their high school. I was like, clearly you 470 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: two belong together. They do kiss in a later episode 471 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: during Supring break. Oh my gosh, I feel like I 472 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: just want to have you tell me all about guilt 473 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: for Girls. I could do it. I've seen every episode 474 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: multiple times. I mean, I think that'd be a really 475 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: fun night for me. And they wrote just Listen to 476 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: Love Your Pot about female journalists in India. The part 477 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: where Bridget was discussing how women face such aggressive and 478 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: gross comments when they become an online presence really resonated 479 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: with me. I recently learned firsthand how scary internet massage 480 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: andy can be when regular non pornographic photos of myself 481 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: from my private Instagram account were used to make a 482 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: fake profile on a porn site asking for abusive and 483 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: degrading comments. When I went to the police about the 484 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: issue and spoke out about it, I was met with 485 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: a lot of comments about quote being careful about what 486 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: goes online and that comes with the territory of the Internet. 487 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: Maybe it's my interraging feminist flaring up, but that is 488 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: such bullsh Women to be able to post whatever they 489 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: want online without fearing it will end up being used 490 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: to threaten or degrade them, and it's impossible to police 491 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: what you post. Even with the most innocent photos can 492 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: be grossly misused and sexualized. I'm so exhausted of constantly 493 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: policing my actions and posts to protect myself from sexist, 494 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: abusive bs that people are rarely held accountable for. Here 495 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: here Um, First of all, I'm really sorry that happened 496 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: to you. That's disgusting and not okay and just completely unacceptable. 497 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm really happy that you went to the police, but 498 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: it's not surprising to me that the police did not 499 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: take it seriously because I think a lot of times 500 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: police departments are still sort of catching up with how 501 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: you deal with these kinds of sensitive crimes that originally online. 502 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, you should be able to post whatever you 503 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: want online and the message of oh, be careful what 504 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: you post. If you just posted a headshot of yourself 505 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 1: dressed normally and somebody can take that and make make 506 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: a disgusting porn version of it, then it really isn't 507 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: about what you post online. That the onus isn't on 508 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: you clearly that that advice hasn't hold water. Yeah, it's 509 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: just another victim blamy way. It makes me so mad. 510 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: We shouldn't have to worry about like what does this 511 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: innocent picture? We don't have to worry about what any picture? 512 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: But like even just that, I wouldn't think twice about posting, 513 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: and then who knows that would be you? And again 514 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: the onus is only on the person who is doing this. 515 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: If I'm on you as the person who innocently posted 516 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: a picture online, which is your right, even if it 517 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: was like a racy picture. The only person who has 518 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: done something wrong is the person who has done something wrong. Yes, 519 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: So thanks to both of them for writing in. If 520 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us, you can. Our 521 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: email is mom Stuff at Houston works dot com, and 522 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: you can find us on the social means. We're on 523 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff but I've Never told You, and on 524 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. And thanks as always to 525 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: our producer, Kathleen Billion.