Speaker 1: Hey what I'm welcome in. I'm done Godliba and this
Speaker 1: is all ball. Um uh quick note, we are going
Speaker 1: to have a summer league recap all ball for you
Speaker 1: coming up. I have a litany of really good and
Speaker 1: interesting guests and um, you know, we've we've diverged at
Speaker 1: some point from always basketball. We had Maurice Clarette. If
Speaker 1: you missed all three parts of that, it was pretty
Speaker 1: amazing stuff. This week's all ball. I think you're really
Speaker 1: gonna like because I love interesting, brilliant people, and I
Speaker 1: really like people that love the sport that you love.
Speaker 1: But also sometimes you're not good enough to always play
Speaker 1: it right, but you can still find an incredible career
Speaker 1: in it. Ty Tyder Amazar is an amazing story. Right.
Speaker 1: Son of immigrants. He grew up for the most part
Speaker 1: in um in Norco, California. He'll tell you what Norco
Speaker 1: was like forty years ago. But he grew up in
Speaker 1: like kind of farm country just outside of Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: really near Chino Hills where the Ball brothers grew up,
Speaker 1: and became a very good basketball player. But even though
Speaker 1: he had good grades, wasn't recruited a high level walked
Speaker 1: on to U C l A got a scholar. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to give away the whole story anyway, Um,
Speaker 1: how do you become the youngest agent in NBA history?
Speaker 1: How did he where the relationships come from? What are
Speaker 1: his thoughts and agents running teams? What's it like to
Speaker 1: get fired as a representative of a player? All of
Speaker 1: that stuff is in here, plus some some awesome stories
Speaker 1: about playing basketball at U c l A. All right,
Speaker 1: I think you'll like it. By the way, if you
Speaker 1: like my stuff, you can listen to dug Outlive Show
Speaker 1: daily three to six Eastern twelve three Pacific on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app or on Fox Sports Radio dot
Speaker 1: com or um. You can also download that podcast at
Speaker 1: your at your discretion. All right, without further ado, here's
Speaker 1: superstar agent Dodd ramazar Um. When you he became a
Speaker 1: certified A twenty four years old, which sounds really young,
Speaker 1: but I mean one of the things that's interesting about
Speaker 1: your basketball life was you really young when you graduated
Speaker 1: high school. Let's go back. Okay, so you grew up
Speaker 1: in Norco. Now, for people who don't know where dorcoes,
Speaker 1: it's really close to Chino Hills. But again we're talking
Speaker 1: about Dorko twenty years ago, ago, years ago. Even now
Speaker 1: you drive into Norco and it says Horse Country US.
Speaker 1: That right. How does an immigrant family, um from the
Speaker 1: West Indies, How did you guys make it? Yeah? So
Speaker 1: I have an older brother, Dougie. He was born in
Speaker 1: New York. My parents, Um, my parents are from two
Speaker 1: different countries, Haiti and British Guyana. So they met in
Speaker 1: New York. My dad was in the telephone company, my
Speaker 1: mother was in a r N and uh my dad
Speaker 1: got a transfer requests from the telephone company. So it
Speaker 1: was either Florida or California. And I just found this
Speaker 1: out recently from my mom. She had dreams a call Fornia.
Speaker 1: She had never been so side unseen. She's like, We're
Speaker 1: going to California. So we ended up in uh. You know,
Speaker 1: I was born in Fullerton. We ended up you know,
Speaker 1: I was born in Orange County. He lived in Orange
Speaker 1: County until probably right before I was two years old,
Speaker 1: and then we moved to uh. We moved to Norco
Speaker 1: in nineteen I think nine. So as you mentioned with
Speaker 1: you being from Testin, doug you know, you know, even
Speaker 1: Anaheim Hills, that whole corridor area wasn't what it is
Speaker 1: now or even twenty years ago. This is you know,
Speaker 1: forty years ago almost. So it was more far you know,
Speaker 1: farmland cattle, more of a Midwest field than anything else. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Um so, so your love for basketball because you played
Speaker 1: football and you're kind of a study at football early
Speaker 1: on in high school. But was it because your your
Speaker 1: brother played? Like what what drew you to basketball? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was my It was my older brother. You know,
Speaker 1: I got on the football because of my older cousin.
Speaker 1: He was eight years older than me. This is back
Speaker 1: when the Inland Empire didn't have too many high schools.
Speaker 1: He played in Norco High School, which was was the
Speaker 1: powerhouse high school Thatton Eisenhower in the Inland Empire before
Speaker 1: Corona Centennial. So I was always playing with older guys,
Speaker 1: my older brother, my older cousin in football. But when
Speaker 1: my brother started playing basketball at the young age, I
Speaker 1: just fell in love with it. And then, as you know, Doug.
Speaker 1: For us growing up in southern California, the Lakers were hot.
Speaker 1: So my idol was Magic. You know, you're you're you're
Speaker 1: watching you're growing up in southern California. You know, the
Speaker 1: Lakers were in what the finals, nine out of eleven
Speaker 1: years or ten years. I mean, it's hard not to
Speaker 1: love basketball. So that's where my affinity for the game grew.
Speaker 1: And I would emulate. I would try to emulate magic
Speaker 1: on the on the court. It is interesting, right that
Speaker 1: your your first big client with Barrett, who's like, it's
Speaker 1: just a mini magic, right, like a way more athletic magic.
Speaker 1: That was that was you, Baron remind did everybody, I've
Speaker 1: just disability to control a game. And the truth is
Speaker 1: Baron's not really old enough. I mean, I know he
Speaker 1: played against him at events Jim, so you know, but
Speaker 1: not really old enough to have experienced the real magic.
Speaker 1: There is an interesting kind of full circle to it. Okay, so, um,
Speaker 1: you're playing high school basketball, but you went to j W.
Speaker 1: North how fars And for people who don't know j W.
Speaker 1: North is that's Reggie Miller right, No, no, no, Doug,
Speaker 1: Reggie went to Riverside Riverside Poly. Sorry. Uh. Quincy Brewer
Speaker 1: I think was the was right before you. He was
Speaker 1: like a two three combo score. JDub always had dudes, right,
Speaker 1: Benjamin what heym ballers right? Like that was in the
Speaker 1: Empire was producing some dudes back then. Um Keith and
Speaker 1: Horne was was he wasn't that for his diamond bar? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I remember you had you had I'll go through a
Speaker 1: really quick one team. One team had four starters in
Speaker 1: the Pac ten on it on that j W North
Speaker 1: teams Quincy board. I went to a s U ed Grave.
Speaker 1: I ended up at now Sonny Benjamin at Oregon State
Speaker 1: and then Corey Benjamin as well, and then we were
Speaker 1: all the generation right after. But they went to UH
Speaker 1: eight finals, c IF Southern Section Finals in a row. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Traylon Carmichael was right, Yeah, Sean, what happened to him?
Speaker 1: He was? He was, I mean, we we have to
Speaker 1: do where the world because Traylon Carmichael. I remember we
Speaker 1: went to a B C. D and nineteen four and
Speaker 1: he was three and he was on the team. We
Speaker 1: had never heard of this dude and he was like
Speaker 1: six four. It looks like a football player. He was asked.
Speaker 1: He was billed deep dun dud the guy was, I
Speaker 1: swear the guy was jumping off with two feet from
Speaker 1: free throw line in games. It seems like uh and
Speaker 1: him and Corey were him Coorey and and Jamal Slaughter
Speaker 1: were team It's at Fontana after Corey transferred from North
Speaker 1: but Talented team. Yeah, it was pretty legit back then.
Speaker 1: Um okay, so so um what education? I was a
Speaker 1: huge inner in your household? Now is that did your
Speaker 1: parents come home and and you know make you do work? Like?
Speaker 1: How was Why was education so such an important part
Speaker 1: of your upgrade? I think, you know, I would say
Speaker 1: this is probably the immigrant mentality overall. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: everyone I think that tends to immigrate to the US
Speaker 1: is for a better way of life, not just for
Speaker 1: themselves but for their kids. And so like you know,
Speaker 1: like a lot of immigrant families is, hey, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be a doctor or a lawyer. So you know, my
Speaker 1: brothers or maybe or maybe if you're if you like
Speaker 1: this Jewish families, doctor lawyer and if you get you
Speaker 1: got nothing going for your account, give me to count
Speaker 1: right exactly and and maybe that change are evolved. Now
Speaker 1: I got I got some Indian buddies or they're like, yeah, Todd,
Speaker 1: it was a doctor, attorney or engineer, and now it's
Speaker 1: like okay, entertainment, entertainment, executive other things. But for us,
Speaker 1: is that's that's the route we took. My brother's owns,
Speaker 1: his own practice. He's a chiropractor. Technically, I guess you
Speaker 1: could say a doctor. He went that route. I know, right,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to him. Here's here's the here's the here's
Speaker 1: the thing with Rotor Okay, is not a doctor. Doctor
Speaker 1: is somebody gets sick on a plane. Okay, So as
Speaker 1: somebody gets sick on a plane and he says, there
Speaker 1: a doctor here, like chiropractors, Like, yeah, I got you right.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, on the other hand, let's be
Speaker 1: honest in terms of daily health and usefulness. Oh, when
Speaker 1: you get a rib out or you're not right, there's
Speaker 1: nobody in the world you'd rather have than a chiropractor,
Speaker 1: like on your on yourself beauty of having a chiropractor
Speaker 1: in the family. You wake up with the stiff knacker
Speaker 1: has been a long road trip, ten minutes away, I
Speaker 1: go see him, okay. And then for me, it was
Speaker 1: you know, I went to I ended up leaving law
Speaker 1: school when I went to I went to law school.
Speaker 1: That was it was kind of you know, for me,
Speaker 1: that was the path I was going to pursue, but
Speaker 1: not used my law degree to be say just a
Speaker 1: traditional uh lawyer from the sense of you know, corporate
Speaker 1: law or something like that. It was always in pursuing
Speaker 1: sports as an agent. So, um, take me through the
Speaker 1: decision to go to u c l A. What was
Speaker 1: what was it like? This is still Herrick right. They
Speaker 1: were they were rolling. I mean I would me, I'm
Speaker 1: the year before and and I turned them down and
Speaker 1: they take Brandon oh Man, what's the kid's name? He
Speaker 1: was from Oklahoma? You know, uh Man, Brandon? What's the
Speaker 1: news thing? He was a sophomore when you're a freshman.
Speaker 1: We had Far, we had Far, we had Farnham, we
Speaker 1: had back would from so so they so Stephon Marbury
Speaker 1: was the guy everybody wanted, and I was like the
Speaker 1: fallback guy. And my sister was a cheerlier there. A
Speaker 1: brother went there, and then I turned down. I go
Speaker 1: to Notre Dame and then they win the national championship.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there like, are you kidding me? Right? Like
Speaker 1: I love U c l A Basketball, they win the
Speaker 1: national championship? What what went into your decision to go there?
Speaker 1: I mean it was just that Like for me, it
Speaker 1: was a dream. If you for me growing up playing
Speaker 1: football and basketball. If I was playing football, I was
Speaker 1: going to USC You know, that's just what it is.
Speaker 1: And uh, for basketball, my dream since I was playing
Speaker 1: that growing up, it was to go to U C.
Speaker 1: L A. And then so because I satisfied both things.
Speaker 1: It was always athletics, academics. Both schools are great, right,
Speaker 1: I'm proud to be a Brewing and it was it
Speaker 1: was it was a natural choice for me. But you know,
Speaker 1: I I checked into school Duck so young. I was seventeen.
Speaker 1: I was a late wimmer, the top one hundred. I
Speaker 1: ended up king on because I got turned down some
Speaker 1: other schools. Like that was my dream. Plus I was competitive.
Speaker 1: I thought I could, Uh, I could walk on and
Speaker 1: earned a scholarship, which I did, And I just wanted
Speaker 1: to be part of the special class with you know
Speaker 1: that class out of Southern California. I think we could
Speaker 1: argue might have been one of the most talented classes
Speaker 1: in Southern California, right, Chris Burgess, Baron Davis. Uh, you
Speaker 1: know Shaye Cotton, Kenny Bruner, um, the Collins Twins. I
Speaker 1: mean you don't like look you go back to I
Speaker 1: think it's there was a class with Tracy Murray, Don
Speaker 1: McLean Um. Uh, I think that was Sean Mills. What
Speaker 1: was in that class? As well, Um, who else was
Speaker 1: who else was in that? Chris Mills, I mean Chris Mills,
Speaker 1: Chris Mills, Derek Martin, like they were all like staying class.
Speaker 1: That was I think Adam keep was that class together,
Speaker 1: a crazy class. Then my junior year, which is I
Speaker 1: actually I was a late little or so I stayed
Speaker 1: back in eighth grade. So you're seven team in you
Speaker 1: graduated high post nine team when I graduate high school.
Speaker 1: But but ninety four had a couple of your teammates
Speaker 1: Chris Johnson, Jared Henderson, right, Toby Toby Bailey, um had
Speaker 1: Miles Simon and had uh god you go through it
Speaker 1: was that was awesome. My teammate Cameron Murray h Tracy's brother,
Speaker 1: Tracy's brother as well. Like there's there's been some really
Speaker 1: really so okay, So when you first get there as
Speaker 1: a walk on, but you're like a recruited walk on,
Speaker 1: you're not like a dude. And my brother went there
Speaker 1: to walk on. Herrick helped him get in and then um,
Speaker 1: uh Lou Lou Roe beat Lulu Uh what's his name?
Speaker 1: He He end up transferring to Clemson and playing and
Speaker 1: now he's coach at Northern California yeah, well and like
Speaker 1: nobody knew he was showed up and kicked his ass
Speaker 1: to tryouts and Greg was like, I didn't make a team,
Speaker 1: so it was better than me. And he goes on
Speaker 1: and starts at Clemson. So so when did Herrick give
Speaker 1: you a scholarship? So Herrick got fired? So my freshman
Speaker 1: year laugh, that was Lab. We were LABS first recruiting class, right,
Speaker 1: so we were all recruited by Romar Herrick laugh. And
Speaker 1: then then that that was junior year. By senior year
Speaker 1: and the time we were checking in is when all
Speaker 1: that all that happened and Herrick was no longer there.
Speaker 1: Romar had left and laughed as head coach. So we
Speaker 1: were They componed Eric, they componed him, they got him,
Speaker 1: They got a expense receipts. Come on, man, they go
Speaker 1: anywhere else in the country. That that that's a flyer,
Speaker 1: Like that's that's a that's a give come on, come on. Okay,
Speaker 1: So so you're you're a freshman, what do you remember
Speaker 1: about how it went down? So for people who don't
Speaker 1: have forgotten, Okay, when they signed Barron, they did some
Speaker 1: I mean frankly, some crazy stupid ship right like his
Speaker 1: his sister worked in the bast Ball office and Herrick's
Speaker 1: son sold him as like Chevy Blazer, I like, I
Speaker 1: don't even and and it was front page of the
Speaker 1: l A Times and really was a bunch of other
Speaker 1: little stuff. And then they like found the expense report
Speaker 1: Steele and they But what was it like for you?
Speaker 1: Like here you are seventeen year old kid from Riverside,
Speaker 1: walk On trying to make it and all the stuff
Speaker 1: goes down, there's a coaching change. What do you remember
Speaker 1: about that time? Lab was my lead recruiter. So it
Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't get caught up, to be honest in
Speaker 1: any of it. It was just Lab. Still. You know,
Speaker 1: Harry got fired Lab coach the year prior in which
Speaker 1: they went to the lead eight. I want to say,
Speaker 1: Johnny went down with an injury to a stern. Hum,
Speaker 1: there's another one. McCoy. He was nice, yeah, yeah, So
Speaker 1: you know, coming in it's like their freend, you know
Speaker 1: for us as a fresh off the championship. In some
Speaker 1: ways in Nive they made the run the year before.
Speaker 1: We're coming in with the number one recruiting class, you know,
Speaker 1: Shae Cotton Baron, Earl Wattson, Rico Hins Moose had just transferred.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm walking on and I'm I'm seven, you know,
Speaker 1: ranked seventy five in the country, and you know, Billy Night,
Speaker 1: Travis Reid, we were loaded. So there was nothing but excitement.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even thinking about that. And then, as you know, Doug,
Speaker 1: you going into the men's gym, playing against Magic and
Speaker 1: uh and doing the summer program. It was a dream
Speaker 1: come true. I didn't think twice about it. Fox Sports
Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. So you get there, Um
Speaker 1: when did when did lad give you I'm going into
Speaker 1: my sophomore year. What was that conversation like with your parents? Um? Oh,
Speaker 1: they were a static they you know, because I really
Speaker 1: put in a lot of work between my freshman and
Speaker 1: sophomore year, and you know, freshman year is an adjustment,
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, you know, coming in a seventeen.
Speaker 1: You know, the seniors were all the guys that won
Speaker 1: the championship as freshman, Toby j R. Chris Johnson and
Speaker 1: of course Julie McCoy was there, and Brandon Lloyd, and
Speaker 1: then you got all these guys coming from all over
Speaker 1: the country, Rico's coming from hard Grave and St. John's
Speaker 1: prospect called Barons there Earl, you know, so it was
Speaker 1: a diverse competitive group. I think we walked away bloodied
Speaker 1: every day in practice. So for me, it was great.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't say I was surprised because that
Speaker 1: was a goal, but it was great to at least
Speaker 1: take that burden and and hit that accomplishment of earning
Speaker 1: that scholarship at u c l A. Okay, here's one
Speaker 1: of the things that I always found to be interested,
Speaker 1: So that the national champion team had like eleven dudes
Speaker 1: that played me. It was like something crazy terms of
Speaker 1: number of dudes that played the NBA, right, like everybody
Speaker 1: I mean, and honestly, Chris Johnson didn't play. But if
Speaker 1: Chris Johnson was now like guys are stretching guys a
Speaker 1: small ball four or five, unbelieving some perfect, perfect guy, right,
Speaker 1: So unbelievable talented team wins the national chance if you
Speaker 1: got I just had, dude. But and if you would
Speaker 1: have walked in that locker room and asked how many
Speaker 1: you guys are going to the NBA. Everybody would have
Speaker 1: raised their hands, right, everyone wended in your mind, you
Speaker 1: think like, hey, agent, it was probably my my, It
Speaker 1: was probably my I would say going into my sophomore year. Actually,
Speaker 1: you know, I take that back. If I had to revisit,
Speaker 1: it's probably my sophomore year I ended up starting. But
Speaker 1: you know, we we have the number one recruiting class
Speaker 1: coming in night, followed by another number one recruiting class,
Speaker 1: Matt Barnes, Geron Rush, Ray Young, Dan Gazer, Restore Moiso.
Speaker 1: I mean they were loaded, dude. Yeah, So coming in,
Speaker 1: putting in all that work, starting for a game or two,
Speaker 1: and then not seeing the court until the end of
Speaker 1: my sophomore year in like sporadic minutes, it was like, no,
Speaker 1: that was a reality check. You know. I thought about
Speaker 1: transferring and everything, but I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: why am I trans for? Yeah, I could play, but
Speaker 1: getting this degree from u C l A. I know
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in southern California, and I knew I
Speaker 1: wanted to go to grad school. So at the end
Speaker 1: of that sophomore years, when I started working for arm
Speaker 1: telling bearing him left Gon Pro, all the U C.
Speaker 1: L A guys were assigning with Arn at the time,
Speaker 1: which was telling the associates, and then that was my
Speaker 1: segue into the business. At nineteen, I got so many things, gosh,
Speaker 1: and just so much stuff. Okay, I would make that.
Speaker 1: I'd make the case Barn towards a c L on
Speaker 1: a filthy crossover dunks on the dude um in in
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament. Um, I know we were
Speaker 1: in the same region. I saw it. I think we're
Speaker 1: in saving I saw it happen and um, which but
Speaker 1: do you that was still there. I've never seen somebody
Speaker 1: tear their a c L on a more nasty play
Speaker 1: than that. That was. I tell people all the time
Speaker 1: that was when he was when he landed, or when
Speaker 1: he jumped. He jumped so high, Doug and I was
Speaker 1: looking down the court. He jumped so high his head
Speaker 1: was the rim eye level. He pulled himself up with
Speaker 1: his momentum. I don't think Baron knew how high he was.
Speaker 1: So it was on the landing. He put all that weight,
Speaker 1: all his weight on one one leg when he landed,
Speaker 1: and that's what made it pops. It's interesting he doesn't
Speaker 1: like me. I still don't know why. We haven't ever
Speaker 1: had wept chopping up at some point in time. It's
Speaker 1: interesting because my because my my dad was like when
Speaker 1: I because that the year before he when he was
Speaker 1: a senior, I was sitting out after transfer from Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: and they basically like, look we get Baron, We're gonna
Speaker 1: take Baron and if not, and I was like people's
Speaker 1: second choice, Georgia Tech's second choice, Kansas. I was somewhere
Speaker 1: down the line or whatever anyway, but my dad was like, look,
Speaker 1: that's the best high school point guard I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: He used to Gilanni Gardner used to be the guy
Speaker 1: that he thought was the next Man Johnson. And then
Speaker 1: he was like, Baron's the best I've ever seen. Um,
Speaker 1: he still had a very very good career, very good career.
Speaker 1: What would he have been like had he not Doug.
Speaker 1: I think baroness was such if you really revisit that,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's our generation when he when he
Speaker 1: tore it, that was still at a time when the
Speaker 1: A c L surgery, like the procedure it could go
Speaker 1: either way like it was. It wasn't like now we're
Speaker 1: you come back stronger. So we were right there where
Speaker 1: like you know Baron tears it in March. He was
Speaker 1: back playing by the end of that same year. That's
Speaker 1: the type of freaky was a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know this. Kobe would come to our practices the following year,
Speaker 1: Baron wasn't clear to play. Him and Kobe are playing
Speaker 1: one on one on the sideline and Baron's wearing this
Speaker 1: huge knee brace. So I don't honestly if he if
Speaker 1: he doesn't tear it, I think he's still the same player.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe he's the number one player because maybe we
Speaker 1: continue going on in in March. But that sophomore year,
Speaker 1: he comes back and he's healthy, you know, and he
Speaker 1: was a highlight reel. It still goes number three. Well
Speaker 1: what I so if you remember his first game back
Speaker 1: to play against US, I got thrown out of the
Speaker 1: game and halftime whatever. He flopped into a technical foul.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't he wasn't moving right yet you're still
Speaker 1: heavy and he had that brace. And that that month
Speaker 1: was December, right, that was November. That was December. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you think about that, that's only eight months after
Speaker 1: the injury. Yeah, nine months. Yeah, that's crazy even in
Speaker 1: today's standards. I'm Thomas Bryant had towards a c L
Speaker 1: and you know it's eleven to twelve months until they're
Speaker 1: you know, he's fully back, is what they're protecting. Don't
Speaker 1: tell me that I tore mine like two months ago.
Speaker 1: I just got my surgery two weeks ago. But I'm
Speaker 1: too old to make it. I'm too old to make
Speaker 1: a real cup. But my goal is my goal is
Speaker 1: to play basketball and tennis next summer. That's my personal
Speaker 1: personal Okay. So so you're in your mind, you're like,
Speaker 1: I mean between Arntell him and I don't know how
Speaker 1: Big Wasserman was at that time as well, Like you're
Speaker 1: in l A u c A basketball super hot. Um,
Speaker 1: you would you start interning during Here's a here's a sorry,
Speaker 1: here's a question. Why do you think, um, why do
Speaker 1: you think more guys don't have the mentality or the
Speaker 1: understanding or maybe the value of that degree. I understand
Speaker 1: and respect that the best, the best, You're gonna make
Speaker 1: so much money. I for you an NBA player, But
Speaker 1: I just guys bounce around schools now and it's like
Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of parts to it. There's one,
Speaker 1: there's the degree, but there's two. There's the connection you
Speaker 1: make with the university and you don't. You don't get
Speaker 1: that as a as a grad transfer. And the place
Speaker 1: you leave you're not really in a lumba, and the
Speaker 1: place you go to you're not real you in a lumba.
Speaker 1: Like look, dude, you're there for six seven months like that?
Speaker 1: Ain't that? Ain't your school? You know? So? I mean
Speaker 1: I was lucky, like o Globa States my school. I
Speaker 1: went to Notre Dame. I love Notre Dame. I would
Speaker 1: love to have And the reason the reason I went
Speaker 1: there is the connection to the subway a lumps I thought,
Speaker 1: I'd love to play. If I can't play, I'd love
Speaker 1: to broadcast or coach all of it is, or be
Speaker 1: in business and all that. Notre Dame's unbelievable connection of
Speaker 1: a lumps um. But but I don't I don't really
Speaker 1: understand why so many, so many, even even professional athletes,
Speaker 1: don't tell kids like, hey, look at Todd's path and
Speaker 1: Todd's understanding of it that maybe not even being an agent,
Speaker 1: but just using the value of that degree and the
Speaker 1: connections at a university in order to propel you for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. So this is purely a theory, right,
Speaker 1: because well hypotheses then, right, um is different from our
Speaker 1: generation because we're getting older. We're gonna be old timers
Speaker 1: here pretty soon. Right. But think the mentality of us
Speaker 1: playing it was pure and not saying it's not pure
Speaker 1: for all the guys now. But it was sports. It
Speaker 1: wasn't entertainment. Now it's much more synonymous with entertainment. So
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not an entertainment agent or represent any
Speaker 1: actors or actresses or or even musicians for that matter.
Speaker 1: But what I can imagine is how many of them
Speaker 1: went to college as well before they started acting. And
Speaker 1: my point being is, like athletes now, their goal is
Speaker 1: to become a pro. So the quickest path to becoming
Speaker 1: a pro it's not having that relationship with the university
Speaker 1: or going there for four It's just different, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: a different way of thinking than how we thought. Because
Speaker 1: you weren't a one and done back then, to two
Speaker 1: and done. That was that was quick steph Baron, you
Speaker 1: know you usually went three or four years, right, even
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan three, you know, magic Bird, like all these
Speaker 1: guys that were even before us, It wasn't the one
Speaker 1: and done or even now having um, you know, the
Speaker 1: G League Ignite program or overtime like that wasn't there.
Speaker 1: I understand that everyone's story is different, right, totally respect that, okay.
Speaker 1: And so when you say is it the right mentality
Speaker 1: the wrong mentality, You're gonna get people that would say, well,
Speaker 1: like you haven't grown up my shoes, you don't know
Speaker 1: kids could go and play. I respect that, okay, But
Speaker 1: isn't that the wrong aren't we? Is it the wrong mentality? Like,
Speaker 1: the truth is that this is this is my honest belief, okay,
Speaker 1: that the like our education system at the high school
Speaker 1: and lower levels still stay. There's still a great education
Speaker 1: disparity based upon where you where you grow up, and
Speaker 1: what you put your background. And the equalizer is the scholarship.
Speaker 1: That's the whole intent of the whole the equalizer. It
Speaker 1: puts you on even footing where you were not even
Speaker 1: footing when you came up with your education in high school.
Speaker 1: And I guess I don't there's there's there's just too
Speaker 1: many bad actors in my opinion in basketball that it's
Speaker 1: not that they want the kid to achieve, they want
Speaker 1: a little piece of that. They want a little piece
Speaker 1: of the action, you know. But but but I think
Speaker 1: that's I just think I understand that's the new mentality.
Speaker 1: I think it's the wrong mentality. I think it's the
Speaker 1: anything really good is worth waiting for, working for. I
Speaker 1: know there's exceptions. I know there's guys that don't need
Speaker 1: four years of college, that don't need three years of college.
Speaker 1: But what you think you don't need is the college basketball,
Speaker 1: which you do need is everything else, and and and
Speaker 1: I just I think all of us soon to be
Speaker 1: old timers, we get to like, well, it's the new generation.
Speaker 1: You just gotta accept, do you or can you try
Speaker 1: and find a way to gather enough of us to
Speaker 1: go like, look, I get it, there's gonna be jail
Speaker 1: and greens. There's gonna be Kate cutting. Those guys are freaks, okay,
Speaker 1: But for the rest of everybody else, this is what
Speaker 1: you need. This is the best thing for your rest
Speaker 1: of your life. And that that mentality is a bad one,
Speaker 1: you know what, Doug, It's all based on circumstance. Like
Speaker 1: we could like Kobe didn't go to college, right, and
Speaker 1: God rest his soul, But like if you if he's
Speaker 1: assuming Kobe continues on the path this guy guy that
Speaker 1: didn't step foot on college and had very successful right,
Speaker 1: and it's a brilliant start individual. But I tell you this,
Speaker 1: like even when I stepped foot on campus with my
Speaker 1: background um in education being a priority, it was intimidating.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. Like the pro the summer
Speaker 1: program where you're having to produce papers and if you
Speaker 1: know you could have guys that go through high school
Speaker 1: want to go to college, It's like, hold on, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could balance both, And you know,
Speaker 1: it depends on the program where if you're working, you know,
Speaker 1: practicing three hours and you know lab had is practicing
Speaker 1: three hours a day, then it's an hour of waits,
Speaker 1: then you're getting pt, then you need to get extra
Speaker 1: work in, and then you got study hall. Like it's
Speaker 1: a it's a tough load. So is it good or bad?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I'm a I'm a proponent of college,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: all relative to circumstances. Like my guy Josh Primo this year,
Speaker 1: youngest guy in the draft. People were saying, why, you know,
Speaker 1: why why are you going? Why are you going in
Speaker 1: the draft? You came off the bench the average under
Speaker 1: ten points, and then here he is, he's a lottery pick.
Speaker 1: And you know, can you argue that next year, you know,
Speaker 1: God forbid, if there's an injury or something else, then
Speaker 1: then people are being critical and saying you should have
Speaker 1: left earlier, you should have left when you were projected higher.
Speaker 1: So I look kindsights always. I'm a big data guy.
Speaker 1: I say, I'm not the smartest guy in the room.
Speaker 1: Let me look at the data. I could argue, going
Speaker 1: back to the days of high school players turning pro
Speaker 1: that the percentage of high school players that term pro
Speaker 1: had greater success than the ones that maybe saved four
Speaker 1: years in college at the end of their career. If
Speaker 1: you look back the Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neil's right, but
Speaker 1: those those guys were the more talented ones to begin with, right,
Speaker 1: And it's the you know, my issues with the Angel
Speaker 1: Collins is the special tail bears, the guys who who
Speaker 1: uh you know, did go and like the rest of
Speaker 1: their life their left, they were left searching. It's a
Speaker 1: really hard thing. Like the NBA is that responsible for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life? Okay? So um, so you
Speaker 1: get done playing and you decided to go to law school?
Speaker 1: What is what? What was where'd you go law school?
Speaker 1: What was that? What was that experience? Yeah, so Doug,
Speaker 1: it was all you know, it's funny. It was all
Speaker 1: happening at the same time. So just to kind of recap,
Speaker 1: So Wasserman was not in existent existence. Tell him in
Speaker 1: Associates was the precursor, right even before he was at
Speaker 1: AR and sold as company to SFS and joined David Falk.
Speaker 1: I was there through all of that when I was
Speaker 1: working there as an intern and for three years. So
Speaker 1: by the time by the time I'm going into my
Speaker 1: senior year, I had actually an extra year of eligibility.
Speaker 1: I had shoulder surgery and I did not want to
Speaker 1: play out my fifth year, so I actually left, took
Speaker 1: nine classes of summer school to graduate, uh quicker, while
Speaker 1: my scholarship still lasted, and one class and fall. So
Speaker 1: I started working for arn uh you know, full time
Speaker 1: as I'm going to class to get ready for law school.
Speaker 1: So because every agent at Arns Practice did the same thing.
Speaker 1: Bob Myers was there. Bob was at Loyola right working
Speaker 1: while working for arned to then become an agent. Um,
Speaker 1: you know Joe Wolf all the age. Rob Polinka was there,
Speaker 1: he was already an attorney and in law school. So
Speaker 1: you know we were loaded. I mean, Warren la Garry
Speaker 1: was there. Aren't tell him, uh, Bob Myers, Rob Polinka,
Speaker 1: Bad Fouchet and Neil Lollsha was doing the pre draft
Speaker 1: pre draft with Tim Gurgert. So you got five guys.
Speaker 1: We're running NBA teams, are owning the NBA Summer League.
Speaker 1: About office and here I am at nineteen through one
Speaker 1: with the firm. So I was I was there's only
Speaker 1: two law schools because my plan was to be there
Speaker 1: working as an agent and going to school. There's only
Speaker 1: two law schools in southern California. That's LOYALA Merrimont in
Speaker 1: Southwestern to have a part time program where you could
Speaker 1: go to school at night and and still work during
Speaker 1: the day. That were accredited law schools. Right, and this
Speaker 1: is post nine eleven, So the competition in law school
Speaker 1: was thick in terms of you know, taking your l
Speaker 1: SATs and and applying and going to the schools you want.
Speaker 1: So I'm in law school and um I actually had
Speaker 1: I left ARN and I was in crisis management for
Speaker 1: a big crisis management firm in l A called Winner
Speaker 1: and Associates, And probably about four months in in my
Speaker 1: first semester of law school, that's when Baron reached out
Speaker 1: to me and asked me to manage them. But end
Speaker 1: of that first year in law school, we're on a
Speaker 1: trip in in uh in South in Central America, UM
Speaker 1: with a Reebok tour and I'm sick as hell, Doug like,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was gonna die. Literally, I don't
Speaker 1: even remember Santa Domingo when we were part of that tour,
Speaker 1: and I remember getting on the plane. I coudn't even
Speaker 1: see straight. He was like, I want you to be
Speaker 1: my agent. So I was twenty three turning twenty four,
Speaker 1: and that that was the start of representing Barren. He
Speaker 1: was my first client. UM, how were you treated in
Speaker 1: the field? Always? You know, Baron's friend young, you know
Speaker 1: a number I was, you know, it's everyone was respectful
Speaker 1: to my face, but Lord knows behind the scenes. And
Speaker 1: because I have no gray hairs behind me, you know,
Speaker 1: I was four, just recently graduated college. Uh, not too
Speaker 1: many years prior, and I you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say Baron was my client. He was more of
Speaker 1: a partner. We just we had a partnership he had
Speaker 1: he had a he had a blueprint, as he would
Speaker 1: call it, and I was there to execute. How did
Speaker 1: he it felt like it was always I know, Cash
Speaker 1: Warning was really close, He's really close with right. How
Speaker 1: did he always seem to have this like plan, Like
Speaker 1: here's a dude raised by his grandma south Central l A. Right,
Speaker 1: but he always seemed to have a plan. You want
Speaker 1: to do movies and entertainment, not just and now blessed
Speaker 1: as an amazing basketball player? Was that you and him?
Speaker 1: Was that something he had already established? Like? Where did
Speaker 1: that come from? Baron? Already? He always had that? I
Speaker 1: think that's barons uh, you know, lens or perspective on
Speaker 1: the world, growing up in South Central and then going
Speaker 1: to crossroads in Santa Monica. Baron Baron is a phenomenal one.
Speaker 1: He's a trendsetter, Doug, but he's I tell you, he's
Speaker 1: a phenomenal talent evaluator. You know in terms of like
Speaker 1: you could talk to people that he's crossed across paths
Speaker 1: with in business that have either worked in partnership with
Speaker 1: him or worked for him. A lot of those people
Speaker 1: have moved on to uh, you know, executive positions and entertainment, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know myself even you know, running my own agency
Speaker 1: and continue to represent players. You know, Cash is a
Speaker 1: serial entrepreneur. So Baron has always just been good at identifying,
Speaker 1: you know, talented young people as he's progressing his career
Speaker 1: that have moved on to you know, if they're not
Speaker 1: working alongside him, moved on to bigger and even greater things.
Speaker 1: So and that's a that's a talent in itself, I think, yes, No,
Speaker 1: it's it's just like it's no different than to be
Speaker 1: a to be a you know, a GM, to be
Speaker 1: a coach, to be an agent, you've got to be
Speaker 1: able to evaluate talent and see, Okay, in two years,
Speaker 1: this guy is going to be this with the right
Speaker 1: you know, putting the right position. It's an amazing gift
Speaker 1: gift to have. So you're representing who is your second club,
Speaker 1: Trevor Reasa. The following year, you know Trevor was It
Speaker 1: was eighteen coming out of u c L a average
Speaker 1: twelve and seven. No one anticipated him leaving, he was
Speaker 1: gonna leave. I ended up representing Trevor, getting him drafted
Speaker 1: to the Knicks. What was it what was that like, Um,
Speaker 1: it was great. Trevor was Greatvor. You know, Trevor and
Speaker 1: I are still friends now. Um it was I tell
Speaker 1: you man, we were fearless. It was kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: I looked back, like, what the hell were we doing
Speaker 1: because we don't like you're using we're using common sense
Speaker 1: or for me, it's like trial and error. But we
Speaker 1: we prep. You know, Recohins, who's still a best friend
Speaker 1: of mine, who's one of the best player development coaches.
Speaker 1: He put Trevor through player development for the draft process,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Trevor ends up playing extremely well
Speaker 1: in the in the l A Summer League at the time,
Speaker 1: this is precursor of the Vegas and you know, Isaiah
Speaker 1: Thomas took him. Uh it's a funny story. I still
Speaker 1: laugh about with Isaiah. My first contract negotiation was was
Speaker 1: interesting because I was completely prepped for it. But you're
Speaker 1: not prepped for Isaiah Thomas or somebody that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, Plus here you grew up in
Speaker 1: l A in the eighties. He was awesome, but I
Speaker 1: hate him and he has this incredib the guys that
Speaker 1: are the starts and you know this, like we've been
Speaker 1: around the guys that they have an aura to them,
Speaker 1: they just do right they have it or okay, so
Speaker 1: still with him? No, no, well I sat down with him.
Speaker 1: I think Isaiah was testing me. This is post Summer
Speaker 1: League and um and Isaiah asked to meet me at
Speaker 1: the Four Seasons in Beverly Hills, but not at like
Speaker 1: nine am or ten am, seven am, because Isaiah knew
Speaker 1: I was young. So let's say I think it was
Speaker 1: a test. Let's see if this guy shows up on time.
Speaker 1: I was there. I think probably am Is mom was
Speaker 1: there with him initially, and then we sit down and talk.
Speaker 1: But the funny thing is I always say this in negotiations,
Speaker 1: to their strength and numbers. Right, if if you and
Speaker 1: I are negotiating against each other, Doug, and as you
Speaker 1: by yourself and I have two other people with me,
Speaker 1: attorneys and other experienced people, their strength naturally in numbers.
Speaker 1: So in that negotiation we started the talks in l A.
Speaker 1: He goes back to New York and now they have
Speaker 1: the you know, the lead counsel for the Knicks and
Speaker 1: they have me on speaker phone negotiating, which which was Uh?
Speaker 1: I sit back and think about that conversation. Uh, there
Speaker 1: was some curveballs thrown at me that I handled. But
Speaker 1: more more than anything that intimidation tactics. I think I
Speaker 1: held my own at least Isaiah said I did, and
Speaker 1: I got a good deal for Trevor. What is it
Speaker 1: like like for Trevor? What is it like for a
Speaker 1: guy who's a client at a very young age to leave,
Speaker 1: to leave you? What's that? What's that feeling like? Uh?
Speaker 1: To leave me as a as an agent? Yes? Like
Speaker 1: what I mean inevitable late? Yeah? What is that? What
Speaker 1: is that like? From your perspective? Oh? Man? It was.
Speaker 1: It was like losing your first your first love, like
Speaker 1: your your first you know, like a girl breaking up
Speaker 1: with you in high school, right your first life. Like
Speaker 1: it hurts. I was like, God, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be able to survive as an agent, Like it's over,
Speaker 1: My reputation is done, x Y and Z and I
Speaker 1: countless stories Doug where it's just like you figure it out,
Speaker 1: you learn from it, you pick yourself back up, and
Speaker 1: you keep moving forward. But that was devastating. But in hindsight,
Speaker 1: you know, based on how green I was in certain areas,
Speaker 1: not in the negotiations or preparation, it was more just
Speaker 1: life experience. In terms of guiding him. I don't fault
Speaker 1: him for making that change at the time when you
Speaker 1: now professionality you've been in for twenty years against super
Speaker 1: successful um better worse, different? What in terms of recruiting players,
Speaker 1: what's the experience? It's it's it's much better because I
Speaker 1: don't waste time. I'm much more efficient for me. It
Speaker 1: is because Doug, I'm a big believer, and I tell
Speaker 1: my staff this is I don't. I don't sugarcoat things.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not. I'm not selling anything that I
Speaker 1: don't think I could deliver on. So the client stopped
Speaker 1: buy into what I'm selling as a service. Are the
Speaker 1: guys I'm supposed to be representing, and look, those guys
Speaker 1: are experiencing success. I tend to evaluate talent for what
Speaker 1: I could develop them into. So, you know, you look
Speaker 1: at the Pascal Siakam. You know, Pascal wasn't supposed to
Speaker 1: be a first round It wasn't supposed to be an
Speaker 1: All Star or a max player, but he's those things.
Speaker 1: You know. Tom Thomas Bryant second round pick, you know,
Speaker 1: waved by the Lakers, and now he's the starting center.
Speaker 1: He just turned twenty four. I think Thomass position to
Speaker 1: earn twenty five million per year next year, if not
Speaker 1: greater once he recovers from his nation. Okay, so so
Speaker 1: go back Pascal. Okay I called pascals tournament. Yeah, his coach.
Speaker 1: Uh uh. You know Margaret is like my brother's best
Speaker 1: friend in the business. Okay, But if you told me
Speaker 1: that this is how good he could be, I would
Speaker 1: be like, when did you first see Pascal? I saw
Speaker 1: him at in Bakersfield, playing against Bakersfield, and you know,
Speaker 1: I want to evaluate talent. It's like, is he really
Speaker 1: six nine, six ten? What's his body type? Can you
Speaker 1: shoot the ball? Does you have touched you know? And
Speaker 1: I could tell those things even if he's not shooting
Speaker 1: jumpers at the free throw line? And then how good
Speaker 1: earth's feet? What's his athleticism, and like what does he
Speaker 1: do well? And then the other component And Doug, here's
Speaker 1: the thing is you you would not have thought I
Speaker 1: was crazy if you're in the gym every day watching
Speaker 1: him like I am. See you you have a basketball
Speaker 1: pedigree as well. That's the big thing that people forget
Speaker 1: is I'm in the gym every day watching the development
Speaker 1: of my guys doing my calls, like how you are
Speaker 1: right now, I'm doing my calls in the gym, so
Speaker 1: I'm watching the ascension of their development. So it's by
Speaker 1: the end of the summer three months. If I'm watching
Speaker 1: Pascal compete at a high level against Paul George lebron
Speaker 1: or or Chris Paul or James Harden and those guys,
Speaker 1: I'm starting to, you know, an earshot away hearing them
Speaker 1: talk about Pascal. It's easy for me to know where
Speaker 1: what direction my guys going in terms of his development.
Speaker 1: But if you're if you're on outside looking in saying, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy is from New Mexico State, or you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know this guy, or i've seen him play once,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you're not seeing his his development,
Speaker 1: then I could see how somebody may think I'm crazy
Speaker 1: or biased to my client opposed to actually seeing where
Speaker 1: there are what what is it? You know your role?
Speaker 1: You're so you get I mean, look, one of the
Speaker 1: one of the sales. Can you tell if I'm wrong?
Speaker 1: Is you have a great, strong relationship with your clients.
Speaker 1: It's a partnership, it's a friendship. It's more than just hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get your next deal, right, Okay, So Pascal
Speaker 1: struggles in the playoff. Right, here's a young guy. It's
Speaker 1: the highest level of the NBA is different. What what's
Speaker 1: that like for you to deal with knowing what he
Speaker 1: has in them but also knowing the reality of in
Speaker 1: play as well as as he as he can as
Speaker 1: the agent, but also the partner and the friend. What
Speaker 1: does that experience. It's being honest. I gotta be honest
Speaker 1: with him, and and it's also bringing in, um, you know,
Speaker 1: some other stories or examples of other players, because every
Speaker 1: all great players go through adversity, every single one. We
Speaker 1: can't name one that didn't struggle at some point on
Speaker 1: their path to maybe be being you know, taking it
Speaker 1: up and notch to greatness and and having that level
Speaker 1: of consistency. Even you know Lebron, not saying Pascal is
Speaker 1: is Lebron, but you know Lebron has gone through it
Speaker 1: or Steph has gone through it. All the great players
Speaker 1: go through it. It's how they handle that adversity and
Speaker 1: come out on the other side. So for me having
Speaker 1: those conversations with Pascal, it's not sugarcoating it. It's like, hey, eight,
Speaker 1: you need to get your wrestler, Let's go get some
Speaker 1: extra reps in or this is all part of the process,
Speaker 1: like it's okay, let's get back to work in the
Speaker 1: off season. So it's not and then actually not just
Speaker 1: saying things but backing it up as an agent with
Speaker 1: a plan of action for them to take to get better.
Speaker 1: But it's never yeah, hey, it's everybody else's follower. You're
Speaker 1: the victim and X, Y and Z. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: let's look at it from all angles. Understand this business
Speaker 1: and what it is. Let's understand what your role is.
Speaker 1: Because Pascal's path is is a is a is an
Speaker 1: unconventional one. If we look at it from NBA All
Speaker 1: Star standards, is this wasn't a guy that's supposed to
Speaker 1: be an All Star. He came out of nowhere. So
Speaker 1: him being thrust into a leadership role as an All
Speaker 1: Star Max player, that's all new to him. He's the
Speaker 1: youngest of six, right, so we understand family dynamics as well.
Speaker 1: He's learning and being more comfortable as in his skin
Speaker 1: in terms of leadership roles. So it's it's literally coaching
Speaker 1: him through that. It's talking to the team and management.
Speaker 1: You know, in some cases even Nick Nurse about those
Speaker 1: things to bring it to his attention and then you
Speaker 1: know it's a partnership with the team understanding his success
Speaker 1: as a team success, Pascal success is what was my own.
Speaker 1: So for me it's again I always say relationships outside
Speaker 1: looking in could be contentious or you can look at
Speaker 1: us a part as a partnership and and make it
Speaker 1: make sense so that both sides benefit. You know, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, whatever it is in terms of outcomes, we
Speaker 1: want turn here, go to law school. You know, probably
Speaker 1: skipped the step that even you want to skip and
Speaker 1: starting with Baron, you know, before you finished doing what
Speaker 1: you want to do. Um. But if somebody wants to
Speaker 1: be you, what, how would you like? There's a college
Speaker 1: basketball player out there is like and I like, I
Speaker 1: love this game, I love the sport. What what would
Speaker 1: you what would you recommend to them as the first
Speaker 1: step in trying to see if they like the process
Speaker 1: of being an agent? Yeah, they would recommend a credible
Speaker 1: internship with a credible firm, because we're we're all judged
Speaker 1: by a resume, um, and you want to learn and
Speaker 1: pick up those good habits or see great agents at
Speaker 1: work to understand their habits or what it entails. Oftentimes
Speaker 1: I have young people that reach out to me and says,
Speaker 1: you know, have said, hey, I've interned here, I've worked
Speaker 1: in sports, and then I say where, And it may
Speaker 1: not have been a credible firm in which I know,
Speaker 1: they may not have picked up great habits. In terms
Speaker 1: of what it takes to be an agent. I think
Speaker 1: most people get it confused now that hey, if I
Speaker 1: have a player, I could just go get certified and
Speaker 1: I know how to be an agent, or I'm an
Speaker 1: agent all of a sudden, like that's is disrespectful to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, Like there's an art and a
Speaker 1: there's a there's an art to being an agent for
Speaker 1: one understanding the business and what it entails. And then um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to surround yourself with great people that have
Speaker 1: had success being an agent because we're fiduciaries of our clients.
Speaker 1: M Um, you mentioned Rob who you worked with? You mentioned,
Speaker 1: aren't um Leon Rose? Now running a team? Like is
Speaker 1: that is that the dream? Is that the gold is there?
Speaker 1: Is there any part of you that says, I love
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, but man, I would love to run
Speaker 1: the team and rebuild something I'm naturally a builder. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm running my own company. If that opportunity presented itself,
Speaker 1: I would I would look at it. Obviously, my clients
Speaker 1: are family for me, so it's a conversation I would
Speaker 1: have have with them as well and my family. But
Speaker 1: I mean that could always be interesting because I don't
Speaker 1: know about you, Doug, in terms of you know, growing
Speaker 1: up as an as an athlete is like I love
Speaker 1: being a part of a team, Like there's nothing better
Speaker 1: than that, you know, um, you know, having in um colleagues,
Speaker 1: are having um, you know, associates or people that you're
Speaker 1: looking in the same direction building towards you know, at
Speaker 1: least in sports and building towards a championship. So that
Speaker 1: aspect always intrigues me. For me on on the company's side,
Speaker 1: is the same thing as like, uh, you know, as
Speaker 1: building towards our client's personal success or. In some ways
Speaker 1: we're even sharing in the championships, you know, even as
Speaker 1: recently for me with Pascal or even Caban Looney. Right now,
Speaker 1: here's the here's the you you mentioned your honesty. Do
Speaker 1: you cheer for other agents to succeed because like, if
Speaker 1: they succeed, that means hey, this is a good plan,
Speaker 1: or did you not want agents to succeed? What? What's
Speaker 1: what's the experience like of watching other people who have
Speaker 1: done what you've done? Playing Bob obviously has had an
Speaker 1: incredible amount of success. Rob's had success, is won the title.
Speaker 1: Do you cheer for those guys, um, because that I
Speaker 1: was maybe that path open up for you. You know,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily say cheer, but there's a tremendous amount
Speaker 1: of respect I have because conversations come up sometimes where
Speaker 1: people are critical of other agents and their work or
Speaker 1: even their transition, and I'm I'll be protective of other
Speaker 1: agents or other guys because a lot of again, a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand what goes into our jobs.
Speaker 1: And for an agent to have success for extended period
Speaker 1: of time, especially uh, managing a you know, high level talent,
Speaker 1: it's not easy, you know, And people can make the assumption, oh,
Speaker 1: well that guy was a lottery pick already or he
Speaker 1: was a superstar. Well you gotta deliver for those guys too,
Speaker 1: that the expectations are greater as well. So I give
Speaker 1: a lot of credit to those agents or even those
Speaker 1: guys that make the transition to the front office, and
Speaker 1: and and I say, in some ways, those guys are
Speaker 1: better prepared. And that's not taken away from the front
Speaker 1: office execs that have been agents. But you're every day
Speaker 1: you're deal dealt with the set of circumstances that you
Speaker 1: didn't know was coming the day before, right because ten percent,
Speaker 1: you know, if if I'm looking at my business or
Speaker 1: my role, you know, ten percent of it is probably
Speaker 1: contract negotiations. The other nine are managing the client and
Speaker 1: managing the curveballs that no one seeing. If if I'm
Speaker 1: doing a good job managing the curve balls that nobody's
Speaker 1: reading about or no one else has seen, you know,
Speaker 1: and you know that's it. So I in some ways, I,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm not I can't say I'm outright cheering,
Speaker 1: but I'm when I see them, I pay my respect
Speaker 1: and acknowledge the work that they're doing and and want
Speaker 1: them to be successful. I think there's everybody, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's obvious. I believe that to be true.
Speaker 1: And I also think that's why you know, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you champion your own kind of young guys. Right, there's
Speaker 1: there's play. Um, you mentioned your own firm. How hard
Speaker 1: is that your own things, your own thing. It's extremely hard.
Speaker 1: It's extremely hard, especially for me when I when I
Speaker 1: went back after I left B d A in two
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, I didn't have a marquee client to uh,
Speaker 1: I guess he could say to to use to gain
Speaker 1: other clients. So for me, I had to change my
Speaker 1: approach to the business to identify um undervalued talent that
Speaker 1: I could develop into those um players that I thought
Speaker 1: that could be very successful. So you know, when I
Speaker 1: left in thirteen, I had to In two thousand fifteen,
Speaker 1: I had Cavan Looney and even Norman Powell that that
Speaker 1: I got drafted. Followed by the next year sixteen Pascal
Speaker 1: Siakam picked up March and gor Toad as a client,
Speaker 1: seventeen Thomas Bryant and then just kind of just continued
Speaker 1: to build on momentum. But at the time, if you
Speaker 1: look back in hindsight, like those guys were marquee guys,
Speaker 1: I had that's a lot in their player development, not
Speaker 1: just in the pre draft process but every offseason to
Speaker 1: help get them to where they're at in terms of
Speaker 1: their second contracts. Also, though again falling back on your relationships,
Speaker 1: right Luney At u c l A, a a place that
Speaker 1: you've played, and of course he gets drafted by Bob Meyers,
Speaker 1: a guy who went to us l A. And you
Speaker 1: work with the firm, right this. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: there's anything illicit, but business is business. It's about relationships
Speaker 1: and who you know. And if you're telling Bob, Bob
Speaker 1: you can play like you know, that's different than an
Speaker 1: agent he doesn't have a long standing relationship with and
Speaker 1: understands that. Is that a fair way to look at it?
Speaker 1: I think it's fair. But you know, Bobby, regardless of relationship,
Speaker 1: Bob is, you know, and obviously this is as in
Speaker 1: their run and uh you know, uh Gavan fell in
Speaker 1: the draft for for medical reasons. You know it's me
Speaker 1: saying that to Bob, But I think he's not in
Speaker 1: the moment of drafting Cavan as much as him thinking
Speaker 1: about the relationship long term because of of our dynamic. Um,
Speaker 1: because Bob is gonna have to pick the best player
Speaker 1: for the Golden State Warriors at any give. I'm not
Speaker 1: because I'm his the player's agent, but because that's the
Speaker 1: best talent available. So in some ways it works hand
Speaker 1: in hand. But you know, it's I'd like to think
Speaker 1: that my relationship with any team is I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not one of the bullshit. I'm just gonna tell it
Speaker 1: how it is and I and I love that process
Speaker 1: because I guess through experience. Whether again Josh Primo, I
Speaker 1: could call a team when he's projected in the second
Speaker 1: round and say, guys, look like Pascal or like a
Speaker 1: Thomas Bryan or Cavan where I'm telling you, guys the
Speaker 1: talent that I'm seeing and you guys know what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do. This kid is going to be a superstar.
Speaker 1: And the ones that believe believe and the ones that don't.
Speaker 1: You know, I remind him in the future when I
Speaker 1: have the next player, there's there's satisfactors or that's the
Speaker 1: chip on my shoulder dog and maybe that's a former
Speaker 1: athlete in me. It's like I told you so, so
Speaker 1: you don't believe me, I'll do it again. Um. I
Speaker 1: I had a my TV and radio agent um for
Speaker 1: five or six years. My second agent was guy named
Speaker 1: Nick con Nick now runs w W Right and he
Speaker 1: was at CIA. He was very powerful, brilliant guy. And
Speaker 1: Nick used to tell me all the time, He's like
Speaker 1: being an agent is a young man's job. It's a
Speaker 1: grinder's job. Fifty is about like he's like, fifties about
Speaker 1: kind of the cutoff. Okay, so you're in your early forties,
Speaker 1: you've been really successful. UM what is what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on the next five ten years? For you? Personally, it's, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm always thinking when you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: continuing to help develop my current roster of clients, helped
Speaker 1: groom the next generation of agents that are working with me,
Speaker 1: because that's a that's a big part of my I guess,
Speaker 1: my ethos and businesses. I it's not just helping my
Speaker 1: clients go, it's helping the people that are working for me,
Speaker 1: are working alongside me grow. I think there's no greater satisfaction.
Speaker 1: And you know, whether it's within my company or you know,
Speaker 1: you know, helping them grow their wings to where they're
Speaker 1: an executive somewhere else and having tremendous success, Like I
Speaker 1: value that. UM. But for me, the next eight to
Speaker 1: ten years is just see where the industry evolves into.
Speaker 1: Look at n I L being introduced. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm very big into sports science and investments in sports
Speaker 1: science for athletes. UM. I think with technology that's going
Speaker 1: to impact our industry tremendously like it has every other
Speaker 1: sector of business and finance and in other areas. So
Speaker 1: for me, it's the satisfaction I get. Honestly, Doug is
Speaker 1: not going along with the status quo of how things
Speaker 1: have always been. Is like, how can I disrupt a
Speaker 1: business that people say is not scalable from a business
Speaker 1: perspective because it's a service business, But how can I
Speaker 1: introduce new technologies in a way that we've never seen
Speaker 1: before because quite frankly, the business has been done the
Speaker 1: same way from agents the last forty or fifty years,
Speaker 1: starting with McCormick and I MG to where now if
Speaker 1: you're I think wise and and um and diligent about
Speaker 1: the technologies that you can integrate for clients in their
Speaker 1: development off the court in terms of sports science, but
Speaker 1: also on how we represent them, I think you know,
Speaker 1: it can be interesting for the future because if you're
Speaker 1: not adding value to your clients now because Dot we
Speaker 1: haven't even talked about Like, look at the contracts these
Speaker 1: guys are signing, right Uh. Steph Curry signed I think
Speaker 1: two oh seven on an extension over four years with
Speaker 1: the new media rights deal. Coming in in four is expiration.
Speaker 1: Seventy five billion dollars occur. It deals billion. And if
Speaker 1: we go back to when that influx of money came in,
Speaker 1: we saw the level of contracts how that was impacted, right,
Speaker 1: seventy billion, three times more. I did some projections. Rookie
Speaker 1: like Josh Primo could be eligible to sign probably an
Speaker 1: extension as a twenty one year old between two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty and three hundred million dollars depending on it
Speaker 1: a Max or super Max player. Right. So for me,
Speaker 1: it's also looking into the future forecasting because now you're
Speaker 1: talking about athletes having their own family office and raise
Speaker 1: their level of sophistication to a whole different level. Uh,
Speaker 1: forget off the court earnings, just their on court earnings.
Speaker 1: So for me, it's also you know, how do you
Speaker 1: I'm not waiting until that happens. It's what mechanisms or
Speaker 1: what services can I put in place now to make
Speaker 1: sure that I could address all the needs of my
Speaker 1: clients in the future when they are earning that level
Speaker 1: of income. Uh, Todd, You've been so gracious with your time, dude,
Speaker 1: It's really really amazing. It's been good. I really appreciate it,
Speaker 1: let's do it in person. And I'm a fan of Primo,
Speaker 1: so I can't wait to see what he does this
Speaker 1: year in San Antonio in future years. And thanks again
Speaker 1: for joining us, and no, I appreciate it, Doc and
Speaker 1: look forward to the next time. Pretty amazing stuff, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, just the the ability at nineteen years old ago, like, hey,
Speaker 1: let me pivot and think about becoming an agent and
Speaker 1: then using the connections that you have established at U
Speaker 1: c l A to build really a business and then
Speaker 1: breaking out and building the business on your own, all
Speaker 1: those challenges all right in here. I thought you'd love that.
Speaker 1: And that's the type of guy who you will see
Speaker 1: whether you talked about being a super agent or you
Speaker 1: talk about evolving into a guy running a team. He
Speaker 1: has such a wherewithal and is so respected in the sport.
Speaker 1: I thought he'd just be a good listen, and he was.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm fast, and I want to grab him back
Speaker 1: and talk for another hour about other who guys that
Speaker 1: that he's discovered. In the meantime, remember The Doug Gotliep
Speaker 1: Show is daily three to six eastern twelve three Pacific.
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, Fox Sports Radio app, I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: app etcetera, etcetera. Wherever you listen to our sports radio,
Speaker 1: we can also download that as a podcast. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: if you have questions, comments at gotleiep Show, Twitter or Instagram.
Speaker 1: The best way to get a hold of me. I'm
Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieban. This is all ball