1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind New York Comic Con Stranger Things. Yes, 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: it all comes together on October six, from seven pm 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: to eight thirty pm at Hudson Mercantile in Manhattan. If 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: you're in the area, join us for Stuff to Blow 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Your Mind Live Stranger Science as we explore the exciting 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: science and tantalizing pseudo science underlying the hit Netflix show 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: Stranger Things. Stuff you missed in history class has a 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: show right after us in the same venue, so you 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: can really double down on your stuff. And hey, the 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: three of us would love to meet you. This is 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: the opportunity to do it. Learn more and buy your 12 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: tickets at New York Comic Con dot com. Slash n 13 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: y c C hyphen presents Welcome to Stuff to Blow 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Your Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Christian Seger, and hey, we've both just 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: saw the movie It in the movie theater. And this 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: is rare because you don't get to the movies as 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: much as I do. But we have both been able 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: to see a movie in the theater and experience it 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: pretty recently. Yeah, and I mean a lot of people 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: are checking it out. Yeah, it's it's become quite a hit. 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: So when I was at the movies watching this, there 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: was this woman in the theater who is in the 25 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: back a couple of rows from me, and she just 26 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: kept screaming every time Pennywise would show up, like this 27 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: howling scream, and this caused her. Then she would laugh 28 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: in response to her own screaming, and everyone else in 29 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: the theater then would laugh as well. So there's this 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: like weird moment where like everybody was laughing over this 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: movie of this just horrible depictions. Then I saw that 32 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 1: movie Mother a week later. Yeah, yeah, and that didn't 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: happen at all. No one laughed, No, there was no 34 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: nervous laughter, there was no screaming. It was just this unrelenting, traumatic, 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: uncomfortable horror playing out in front of you. And so 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, is there some kind of metric of successful 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: horror here or is it just like different subgenres when 38 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: people feel like it's okay to laugh nervously versus they're 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: just enraptured with with what is so scary in front 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: of them. Well, yeah, and then of course these are 41 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: two very different films. I understand with with kind of 42 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: different target audiences, so when I very much account but yeah, 43 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: I I share some of your concerns about my my 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: fellow viewers. I mean, this is a reason I one 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: of the reasons I don't go to movie theaters that much, 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: because ultimately I would rather watch anything in my living room. Um, 47 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: it's only the whole timing aspect of of like a 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: film you're really excited about. It's going to get me 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: to go to the theater because otherwise I'm not crazy 50 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: about the theater. It's you know, it tends to be overpriced. 51 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: You gotta go if you if you're gonna if I 52 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: go in my and I go with my wife, then 53 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: I have we have to get a sitter. It's just 54 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: the whole whole pain and uh. And you know, life 55 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: moves so fast now at our age that it's like 56 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: a movie. Like when you're a kid, if you didn't 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: see Batman in the theater, it's like forever in the future. 58 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: It's like two months, yeah, and two months like that's 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: gone like that, like movie after movie, I'm like, oh, 60 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: that Marvel film seems kind of kind of cool. Maybe 61 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: I'll check that out. And then it's on, you know, 62 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: direct streaming. But of the many things that bother me 63 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: about the the movie theater going experience, there's certainly the 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: the audience reaction to not only scares, but to just 65 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: graphic violence in general. You're you're watching it, you're immersed. 66 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: Something scarier violent happens and someone responds with laughter. It 67 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: throws me out of the experience of watching the film. 68 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: But then I also have this weird moment where I'm like, 69 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: what are we as a species? Who? Where? What have 70 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: we done culturally so wrong? How do what is our 71 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: relationship with depictions of violence in our in our fiction 72 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: that that will that allows this to happen, That I'm 73 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: hearing somebody cackle while someone's being like bludgeoned to death 74 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: or something. Well, I have to admit, Robert, I'm probably 75 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: one of the people that would annoy you in that respect, 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: because during it there were points where I giggled gleefully. 77 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: But I think when I think back on it, it 78 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: was more out of the sheer excitement that as a 79 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: horror fan they were able to make a film that 80 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: was actually as dark and horrifying as the novel, And 81 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: I was so I thought I was going to be 82 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: disappointed going into it. And you know this, horror fans 83 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: were like junkies, were always on the lookout for the 84 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: next good story that's going to come out in the genre. Right. 85 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: We're just always hoping, will this be it? Will this 86 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: be the next cool thing? And more often than not, 87 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: we're disappointed. So I think when I was giggling, it 88 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: was more out of happiness that this thing wasn't failing 89 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: my expectations, you know. And I've been getting a lot 90 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: of questions about what you're talking about in relation to 91 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: the movie it because it's been so popular. A lot 92 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: of people are saying to me, because they know that 93 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: I write horror and that I'm a fan of horror, 94 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: what is it that you like about horror? What you know? 95 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: They say it to me as if like I'm a 96 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: damaged human being and they need me to explain you 97 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: know that I'm not, uh, And I guess for me, 98 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: I see storytelling as a way of learning through the 99 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: surrogate figures that are playing out in the story in 100 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: front of you, right, And this is essentially our method 101 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: for explaining to each other how the world works. So 102 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: cautionary tales like horror seem to me to be culture 103 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: designed to enhance our survival rate, and something like it 104 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: is a glimpse is something that's larger than us, because 105 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: obviously it's not a real clown running around and murdering people. 106 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: It's some kind of monstrous, cosmic entity. Yeah, so you've 107 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: got this whole idea that there's something beyond our understanding 108 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: and something that scares us by simply showing us that 109 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: we are just not as significant as we like to 110 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: think we are. And there's something oddly zen about that 111 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: that I like when you learn to be content with 112 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: your lack of significance and you just can accept that 113 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: you don't understand everything and you never will. And I 114 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: think there's room for laughter there as well. Yeah, I 115 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: would agree with with that. You know, I I write 116 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: horror as well, and I don't think of myself as 117 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: a as a horror writer per se. Like, I think 118 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: it's more a matter of exploring the reel through the unreal. 119 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: And if you were exploring something that is inherently dark 120 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: or inherently fantastic, inherently ridiculous or surreal, I mean that's 121 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: going to color your unreal method of exploring it. But yeah, 122 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: I think it's more about it's it's more about what 123 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: that that that endpoint, like, what are you trying to 124 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: explore about the real world? Right? So then let's back 125 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: up for a second here, because we're both practitioners and 126 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: fans of this, but there's something going on here with 127 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: the human experience when people are laughing at horror movies. 128 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: So let's try to unpack this and look at the history, biology, 129 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: and psychology of laughter. Yeah, because I think the main 130 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: issue here is that you can either say I'm the 131 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: only person in this theater who's sane and everyone else 132 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: is having an insane or a logical reaction to the horror. 133 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 1: That's one way to approach it. But the more likely 134 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: explanation is that what is happening here is normal, and 135 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: if we look at it, it'll reveal something about our 136 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: relationship to humor, our relationship to horror, and just the 137 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: human experience itself. All right, So let's let's start with 138 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,119 Speaker 1: just laughter and humor in general. So studies have shown 139 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: that various apes, rats, dogs, birds, dolphins, they all do 140 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: something that resembles laughter. But of course everything is a 141 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: little bit more complicated with humans, and laughter itself is complicated. 142 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: You know what, when you hear it, it's that mix 143 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: of rhythmic vocalized, you know, involuntary actions. It begins with 144 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: a set of gestures, a crack in the facial features, 145 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: and then the emergence of sound, and that exact sound 146 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: is gonna gonna very tremendous. I mean, you've you've all 147 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: heard countless versions of laughter, you know, like the deep 148 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: resonating laughter of say Brian blessed Um, who played, of course, 149 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: of the character Vulcan and the flash Gordon, the tittering 150 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: laughter of say the character Knox Harrington, or David Thulis 151 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: played by David Threwis in The Big Lebowski, or you know, 152 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: any example of sardonic laughter or sexy laughter. I mean, 153 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: the list goes on and on. But when we we 154 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: belt out a hearty laugh, we we feel it throughout 155 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: the body. Uh, even the arm, leg, and trunk muscles, 156 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: fifteen facial muscles contract and we feel the unmistakable stimulation 157 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: of the zygomatic muscle, the main lifting mechanism of your 158 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: upper lip. Meanwhile, the epiglottis partially closes the laarnix, interfering 159 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: with respiratory system, making air and take ir regular you gasp. 160 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: In extreme situations, you even have your your tear ducks 161 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: kicking in and contributing tears um as well. Maybe your 162 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: your nose is running. It becomes this. We often forget that, 163 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: like a really true full body laugh. It's like being 164 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: gassed with something. In extreme situations, you pee your pants. Yeah, 165 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: it happens now. Of course, for you to laugh, you 166 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: need some sort of stimuli, and the most common stimuli is, 167 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: of course, humor. But humor itself is a tricky subject 168 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: to understand that we've been we've been banging our heads 169 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: against it for thousands of years. So I thought it 170 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: might be helpful to just go ahead and roll through 171 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: a few basic theories regarding a humor so that we 172 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: can move forward. And I think as we go we'll 173 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: find that in trying to um explain what humor is 174 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: and how we react to humor, we also get into 175 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: that area of horror. Plato, Aristotle, Thomas Hobbs, they all 176 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: argued the superiority theory of humor, which states that we 177 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: simply find the misfortune of others amusing. Yeah, this is schadenfreud, 178 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: of the great German term for finding pleasure in somebody 179 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: else's misfortune. Yeah, and he view. You see someone trip 180 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: and you laugh, or you trip and someone laughs at you. 181 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: This seems like a perfectly solid explanation for everything that's occurring. Now. Meanwhile, 182 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: Sigmund Freud, he championed the champion the relief theory, which 183 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: states the comedy is a way for people to release 184 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: suppress thoughts and emotions safely. And this can include everything 185 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: from you know, cutting a slice of you know, confert 186 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, controversial say social commentary, or are just a 187 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: simple fart joke. Now. Emmanuel Conta Flip favored the incongruity theory, 188 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: which suggests that humor blooms when people notice the disconnect 189 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: between their expectations and the actual payoff. I went in 190 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: to smell that flour on your lapel and it squirted water. 191 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: That was unexpected. That was hilarious. Now. One that one 192 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: of the more recent theories that that I find quite 193 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,599 Speaker 1: attractive is the benign violation theory, and this holds that 194 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: humor arises when benign subject matter and violent or dangerous 195 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: subject matter overlapped, overlap and allow and the laugh itself 196 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: is a way to communicate to others that a previously 197 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: perceived threat is not a real danger. Now, none of 198 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: this is a subtled debate. You can argue for any 199 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: one of these, and maybe there's a little truth in 200 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: all of them, but especially for our purposes here, I 201 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: do really like the benign violation theory because it explains 202 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: humor and laughter in terms of communication. After all, we 203 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: are social organisms. I mean, we we banned together. That's 204 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: where we found our survival in a in a dangerous 205 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: world of limited resources. So it makes sense that allowed 206 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: vocal expression, not only a vocal expression, but a very 207 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: physical expression is we've described, would have some sort of 208 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: a communicative role. So when we drilled down even further, 209 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: we look to the work of a guy named Robert Provine. 210 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: He's a neuroscientist and psychology professor at the University of 211 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: Maryland in Baltimore County, and he conducted laughter research for 212 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: this book that he wrote, and he observed real world 213 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: laughter in more than a thousand episodes in public places. 214 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: And Provine described his approach as trying to understand laughter 215 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: from the position of a visiting extraterrestrial. So essentially, what 216 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: would an alien make of the sounds and faces we're 217 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: making when we're laughing. So he first defined what a 218 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: laugh is, and he quantified it as a series of 219 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: short vowel like notes or syllables that are each seventy 220 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: five milliseconds long and are repeated at regular intervals about 221 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: two hundred and ten milliseconds apart. Now, there's no specific 222 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: vowel sound that defines laughter, but similar vowel sounds are 223 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: typically used for the notes of a given laugh. Right, 224 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: So we're not going uh oh e I, you know, 225 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: like you're not combining all the various different vowels. Is 226 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: usually the same one over and over again. So there's 227 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: usually a strong harmonic structure to laughter, with each being 228 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: a multip full of a low frequency. So when you 229 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: look at laughter's harmonic structure on a sound spectrogram, you 230 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: actually find that there are evenly space stacks of short 231 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: horizontal lines in the spectrum, and the notes and the 232 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: inter note intervals between them, those carry the actual information 233 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: that helps us identify a sound as laughter. So, for instance, 234 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: if you were to use like editing software and you 235 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: cut out the spaces between laugh notes, you would still 236 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: recognize it as laughter. But if you cut out the 237 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: notes themselves, it just sounds like a long, breathy sigh. Essentially, 238 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: all human laughter is a variation on this basic form, 239 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: and we typically start seeing it in babies around three 240 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: and a half to four months of age. And Provide 241 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: also found the following stats. He found that less than 242 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: twenty of the laughter incidents he cataloged were in response 243 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: to something that was actually funny. Instead, people more often 244 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: are giggling or chuckling at innocuous statements like, for instance, 245 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: I see your point and then somebody goes And what's 246 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: even more interesting is that the person who produced the 247 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: laugh provoking statement was forty six percent more likely to 248 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: be the one who chuckled themselves. So it's more likely 249 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,479 Speaker 1: that people tell a joke and then they laugh at themselves, 250 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: then somebody else laughs at them. In only eight of 251 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: the one thousand, two hundred recorded episodes that Provine looked 252 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: at did they find that laughter interrupted what someone was saying. 253 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: Nine point nine percent of the time, laughter occurs in 254 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: these tidy, natural breaks. And this is weird because I 255 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: think I'm probably the point zero one percent of the population. 256 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: Then who laughs in ways that totally interrupted conversation? Anybody 257 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: who's listening to me on these podcasts will probably attest 258 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: to that. Also, I'm the most awkward person to go 259 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: to the movies with because I laugh a lot inappropriately. 260 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: I got dirty looks in the theater for laughing maniacally 261 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: at movies like American Psycho and Hannibal. Well, I mean 262 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: American Psycho. In Hannibal, you do have to admit that 263 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: they play with black comedy a little bit. That's what 264 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: I thought. Yeah, as I was watching them, I was like, oh, 265 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: this is supposed to be dark humor. I was laughing 266 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: in response to it, and people were looking at me 267 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: like I was a madman, Like you're laughing at this 268 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: naked man running down the hall with a chainsaw. But 269 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: that scene is legitimately hilarious because they're going to such 270 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: pains to hide as genitalia. Because and that made an 271 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: otherwise terrifying, otherwise terrifying scene, uh, comedic because they're because 272 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: of what they're clearly doing from a blocking standpoint, there's 273 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot that's silly about that scene started on un Hannibal. 274 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot selling that as well. Now as far 275 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: as laughter interrupting conversation, uh, and and even with yourself, 276 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, I I tend not to interpret people's laughter 277 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: in conversation as an interruption. Maybe it's I kind of 278 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: think of it in the same way that you generally 279 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that applause interrupts a performance, you know. Um 280 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: it just it seems like we if you're engaging with 281 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: the conversation with somebody and there's laughter happening on one 282 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: or both sides, that that is factoring into the communication, right, 283 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: unless it's just occurring with you know, in a state 284 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: of madness. Yeah, exactly, That's how I see it. So 285 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: for instance, I think the stats actually back this up too, 286 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: and this is why I tend to laugh the way 287 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: I do. But uh, probably more unconsciously than conscious. Indicates 288 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: that most people use laughter in the same way we 289 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: use verbal pauses. And what I mean by that is, 290 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: rather than quietly wait to respond while we're collecting our thoughts, 291 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: we're using the stilted laughter to hold our place in 292 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: the conversation. It's the same thing is when people use 293 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: like or you know, as verbal pauses in a in 294 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: a sentence that they're saying out loud so that they 295 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: can kind of compose themselves first. And as podcasters, we 296 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: have to admit not only do we do this like 297 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 1: every human who communicates in any language does, because this 298 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: is just a natural part of human communication. But boy, 299 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: do we get a lot of messages about it. I 300 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: don't know. I haven't really noticed any messages about it recently. 301 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: Maybe not recently. Yeah, maybe it's because we've been doing 302 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: the show for a long time. I remember when I 303 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: first came on Stuff to Blow your Mind, I got 304 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: a lot of notes about it. Well, there is an 305 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: exercise in sort of, you know, cutting down one's use 306 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: of those words. But also I think people that was 307 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: into this show and certain other shows like this realize 308 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: that it is, for the most part, an organic conversation. Yeah. Granted, 309 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: it's not the same as a full blown conversation. It's 310 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: kind of a performance conversation with notes on hand. It 311 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: would be a very weird conversation if you were having 312 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: if you were trying to talk to somebody and they 313 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: were referring to note cards the whole time. But we're 314 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: also were not scripted show. And if you have if 315 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: it's scripted, then yeah you can you can cut out 316 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: all of those likes and yeah, exactly, And I think 317 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: there's different expectations of what people think we might be 318 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: doing on this show, right, Like some people think that 319 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: everything is completely scripted and that we're just reading the 320 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: whole time to each other, and then other people think 321 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: that it's totally extemporaneous and we have all of these 322 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: facts in our head and it's just spouting them off 323 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: back and forth to each other. Really it's a mix 324 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: of the two. So provide back to his research. He 325 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: proved essentially that laughter is inherently social and it's a 326 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: tool of communication, and it's not always or often actually 327 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: in relation to something that's supposed to be funny. He 328 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: found that participants were actually thirty times more likely to 329 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: laugh in the presence of others than they were when 330 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: they were a quote, truly alone. What he meant by 331 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: this is not counting in response to TV shows or 332 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: other media. So when we're totally alone, apparently we seem 333 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: to hardly laugh at all. Yeah, I did it. Certainly 334 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: mag is up with my experience of watching comedies, Like 335 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: I really don't like watching comedies by myself, because there's 336 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: there's very little joy to be had trying to laugh 337 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: or or never inevitably setting there not laughing while something 338 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: humorous takes place. Yeah. I think maybe this is why 339 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: I surround myself with animals, because even if my wife 340 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: isn't home, I spend half my day talking to them 341 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: and laughing at them or like having like little interactions 342 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: with them. And they're just like, dude, we don't understand English. 343 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: You know, they understand laughter probably, but not necessarily whatever 344 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: I'm saying to them. You know, I just and weirdly 345 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: inherently communicative in that way. I think if I was 346 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: by myself and just laughing and talking to myself, it 347 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: would feel stranger to me. I mean, that's the ultimate 348 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: beauty of having any kind of pet around. Is it 349 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: gives us license to sit around and talk to ourselves. Oh? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. 350 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: Uh So it's also worth noting, just broadly about this, 351 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: that social scientists have confirmed too that laugh tracks on 352 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: television show those actually do increase audience laughter, and not 353 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: only that, they increase people's rating of comedic materials. So 354 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: we have yet another social aspect that's going on here 355 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: with laughter. I really do not like the idea that 356 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: science is backing up the laugh track tracks. Yeah, it's true. 357 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: We have an entire brain Stuff video episode all about uh, 358 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: laugh tracks in the history of them that Joe actually 359 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: worked on and it's a it's really good. Oh cool. 360 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: We'll have to throw a link to that on a 361 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 1: landing page for this episode at stuff to Blow your 362 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. And we should consider getting a laugh 363 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: track for this, uh show. That's a great idea. Yeah, 364 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: I know the listeners would hate. Are there any podcasts 365 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: out there with laugh tracks? Surely there must be, Huh 366 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: that would be interesting. Cereal's got to have a laugh track, right, Okay. 367 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: So there's also an evolutionary theory that's related to the 368 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: whole laughter thing and it was proposed in two thousand 369 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: five and the Quarterly Review of Biology, and this was 370 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: by Matthew Gervas and his advisor David Sloan Wilson. Basically, 371 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: they looked at the research of this nineteen century French 372 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: physician named Guillaume Duchane. He was this guy this is 373 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: the electrocution of the fac Yes, so he would go 374 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: around and zap people's faces with this little electronic mischief box. Well, 375 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: he wouldn't just go around and do it. It was 376 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: like a psychopath. No, he wasn't just going up to 377 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: strangers and doing it. Sorry, Yeah, he was doing it 378 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: too too willing volunteers in a hospital, but he wanted 379 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: to see what would happen, and the volts evoked a 380 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: certain kind of smiling. Uh. And this is what Robert 381 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: was referring to earlier. This is where the zygomatic major 382 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: muscles get raised along the corners of our mouths. Right. 383 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: But he could never get the mischief box to reproduce 384 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: the kind of laugh or smile we get when we 385 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: actually find something truly funny. This laugh is way more complex, 386 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, it uses the zygomatic major muscles, but it 387 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: also uses the obicularis oculi muscles, and those are the 388 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: muscles that are around our eyes that form crow's feet. 389 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: This is why you hear that phrase A real smile 390 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: is in your eyes. The first smile, the one that's 391 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: just with your mouth. That's just what we do to 392 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: be polite. I call it a dead smile. And it's 393 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately what I usually end up producing when I'm asked 394 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: to smile for a camera. Right, So, like anytime I'm whatever, 395 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: like somebody wants to take a picture, I had the 396 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: hardest time genuinely smiling, and there's always like somebody on 397 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: the other end. It's just like, oh, why can't you 398 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: just smile? What is what are you doing? You know 399 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, And it's because I'm conscious of 400 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: the dead smile. Look, yeah, I mean it's just a 401 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: classic griff and grim smile where someone just says, hey, 402 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: smile for the photo, take the picture. Whereas you know, 403 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: an actual professional photographer is going to try and get 404 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: a legitimate, you know, emotional response from you and they're 405 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: taking a picture. That's difficult. Your wife's a photographer. That 406 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: must be a huge part of the job, and I 407 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: can't imagine it's easy. No, it's it's always a challenge 408 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: because you're all ways dealing with a different person with it. 409 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: And some people are going to be natural laughers. They're 410 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: you know, they're gonna they're gonna naturally let that that 411 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: inner portion of themselves out. Other people are gonna be 412 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: more closed off and they're gonna give you that dead 413 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: smile and you've got to sort of all but carve 414 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: it out of their face. So Jervas and Wilson they 415 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: positive that two to four million years ago we human 416 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: beings evolved into having what they're referring to as do 417 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: shame laughter. This is when we actually find something funny. 418 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: But why did we do it well? The idea is 419 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: that it was a signal that everything was okay and 420 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: that our danger was low and our needs were met. 421 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: That lines up with the benign violation theory exactly. But 422 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: then sometime since then, the dead smile laughter emerged as 423 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: we became more cognitively developed. Now, the idea here is 424 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: that we learned to mimic the spontaneity of laughter so 425 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: that we can try to take advantage of its effects 426 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: and manipulate other people into thinking everything was okay when 427 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: it isn't. This is like the little finger form of laughing. 428 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: This is why your boss thinks that that every joke 429 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: they've ever told is hilarious. So true, so true. This 430 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: is absolutely that. Yeah, I immediately thought of bosses in 431 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: the past. Yes. Uh. But no matter how hard we try, 432 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: we usually can't get it right because of the whole 433 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: eyes thing. So there's another neuroscientist that backs us up. 434 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: His name's V. S. Rama Shandron. Oh yeah comes up 435 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: a lot, so he theorizes something similar. He says that 436 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: laughter evolved as a signal to both ourselves and others 437 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: that what may appear to be dangerous or threatening actually 438 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: is not so today, when we nervously laugh, it's because 439 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: we're signaling ourselves that whatever horrible thing that we've encountered 440 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: isn't really as horrible as it appears. So that maybe 441 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: what's going on when people are laughing when they're watching 442 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: horror movies. Right, so it jumps out, it's this crazy 443 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: clown with fangs. The lady screams, but then she laughs 444 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: because she's like, oh, it's just a movie. I'm okay. 445 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: So this maybe why psychologists actually classify humor as one 446 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: of our quote mature defense mechanisms. We invoke it to 447 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: guard ourselves against overwhelming anxiety. If we can laugh, for instance, 448 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: at traumatic events that are in our own lives, perhaps 449 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: then that we can endure them, and it diminishes our 450 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: suffering and attempts to convince us that we're going to 451 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: be able to make it through that trauma. But then 452 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: here's what the question becomes. Is laughter creating an expectation 453 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: that we're gonna be all right? Or is laughter only 454 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: possible when we actually believe things aren't as bad as 455 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: they seem. All Right, We're gonna take up quick break, 456 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: and when we come back, we will continue this exploration. Alright, 457 00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: we're back. You know you were talking about the power 458 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: of laughter. And on a recent episode of Stuff to 459 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: Blay to Mind trailer Talk Our Our Friday, eleven am 460 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: Eastern Time Facebook live show, we had a trailer. We 461 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: featured the trailer for the Name of the Rose, and 462 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: one of the plot lines in that is this this 463 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: idea of what is humor and should humor be permitted? 464 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: Should humor being encouraged by the church, The idea being 465 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: that if you can, if you can laugh at anything, 466 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: you can laugh at the church, you can laugh at God. 467 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: And if in doing so, are you taking away some 468 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: of its power? Oh? Interesting, Well, it seems to me 469 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: that it would be inherently useful to the church if 470 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: the idea was to provide its followers with soulas that 471 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: everything's gonna be okay or that it's not going to 472 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: be okay, and then you're gonna continually need to pray 473 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: to God about it and it definitely shouldn't laugh. Yeah, well, 474 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: it's a whole This is a gets into the whole 475 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: theological deep end. Did Christ laugh? Is it okay to 476 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: laugh at certain things? Etcetera? And I'm not sure they're 477 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: any clear cut answers on that well, turning away from 478 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: laughter for a second before we converge back together and 479 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: try to figure out what's going on here when people 480 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: are laughing at horror movies. Let's talk about scares and fear. Remember, 481 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: anxiety and fear are a product, not a failure, of 482 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: being perceptive. Perceptive people are the ones who are most 483 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: often anxious. The most fearful among us are often those 484 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: who have the most imaginative intelligences. Yet most of us 485 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: respond to being frightened as if it's embarrassing, right, it's 486 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: this petty emotion we don't want other people to see. 487 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: As if the notion of being afraid is somehow indicative 488 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: of our insecurity about our control over our own lives. Well, 489 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: we have to remember that evolution favors false positives, not 490 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: false negatives, because if I mean the classic example is 491 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: if there's some sort of a large carnivore hunting you, 492 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: and you're you know, an ancient human, uh, prior to 493 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: any kind of advanced technology. Then if your fellow, you know, 494 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: cave person thog jumps out at you and you think 495 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: for a second he's a tiger, and you react accordingly 496 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: like that that's a positive survival benefit. Whereas if an 497 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: actual tiger jumps out at you and you're just like, oh, 498 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: it's tharg again, well then your bone exactly. Well, that's 499 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: related I think maybe to nervous laughter. It's been noted 500 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: in psychological experiments when subjects are placed under a high 501 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: degree of emotional stress, and this is specifically when they're 502 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: thinking about perceived harm not to themselves but to others. Now, 503 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: I've got a mortifying thought here that may be one 504 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: answer to why people are laughing in movie theaters. What 505 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: if the person laughing at horror has what's called pathological laughter. 506 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: This is actually when there's damage to a wide variety 507 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: of brain regions and it produces abnormal laughter. So, for instance, 508 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: like the most common cases of this are pseudo bulber palsy, 509 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: gelastic epilepsy, and then just psychiatric illness in general. They 510 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: found it in reported cases of multiple sclerosis als, in 511 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: cases where people have tumors or lesions in the limbic 512 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: system in the brain stem. So it's just this like odd, abnormal, 513 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: uncontrollable laughter. You know, I don't I don't want to 514 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: engage too much in judging strangers that I have no 515 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: real insight on. But when I saw Baby Driver recently, 516 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: there was somebody in the theater who was laughing almost 517 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: continuously through the film, not just the humorous moments and 518 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: the fun moments, but also just the moments of intense 519 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 1: violence that pop up here and there and then really 520 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: and and looking back, and I'm like, yeah, I could 521 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: I could see that individual's reactions being a product of 522 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: some sort of uh, you know, abnormal laughter scenario. Yeah. 523 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: I think sometimes my experience at the movie theater has 524 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: been that, at least especially in the last ten years, 525 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: it seems to be or that like it's this communal 526 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: experience where a lot of people feel like that kind 527 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: of like out loud reaction is allowed and part of 528 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: the experience, you know. I remember going to see one 529 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: of the paranormal Activity movies and there was this guy 530 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: behind us who was just like shouting at the screen 531 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: the whole time, like, Oh, no, don't go in there, 532 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: don't don't know, don't let that baby touch that dog, No, 533 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: don't do that. You know, you know, there's something kind 534 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: of magical about that experience, Like I haven't been in 535 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: a theater with that recently but when it's authentic, when 536 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: the individual is speaking to the movie theater, uh, kind 537 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: of organically and they're not showing off, they're not trying 538 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: to do some sort of a riffing thing and being 539 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: the life of the party, it is kind of it 540 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: is kind of magical because I feel I feel like, well, 541 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,479 Speaker 1: they're they're more alive with this film than I am. Like, 542 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm really into it, but maybe I'm sort of checking 543 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: out now and again and thinking, oh, what's that actors 544 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: been in recently? It's need how they shot this scene, strange, 545 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: how they adapted this from the novel. But this person 546 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: is living in it. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Maybe it's 547 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: just what kind of media consumers we are too that 548 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: might be part of it. Well, all right, let's try 549 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: to bring it all together back around what is going 550 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: on when that person in the theater is laughing? What 551 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: are they laughing at? Seems like there's no definitive answer 552 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: to this question yet. Not a lot of research has 553 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: been done on the neurological basis for nervous laughter, But 554 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: there are two popular theories that revolve around the idea 555 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: that laughter is inherently social, So laughter is sending messages 556 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: to people around us. Likewise, smiling and socially awkward situations 557 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: seems to demonstrate that you have nothing to do with 558 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: any external problem. Yeah, and this is again why I 559 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: favor the benign violation theory, because if it's not social, 560 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: then why is it disrupting my movie going experience? Yeah? 561 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely so. The first type of message that could be 562 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: going on with nervous laughter seems to be an expression 563 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: of fearful submission. So we actually see this in MCA 564 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: acts when they feel threatened or dominated. Their laughter is 565 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: accompanied by evasive or submissive body movements, and this is 566 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: used to admit their fear and communicate their desire to 567 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: avoid conflict. This is actually first noted by primatologists Signey Pruschoft. 568 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: He was the first one who primarily studied Reesiss macaques 569 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: along these lines. He noticed that they also bared their 570 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: teeth in a smile during these social interactions. And this 571 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: wasn't a signal to begin a fight or anything, but 572 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: it was to dispel tension so that their aggressor would 573 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: become more friendly. The smile was a display of submission 574 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: to the more dominant member of their their group. Yeah, 575 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: that's interesting to think of viewer of a horror movie 576 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: reacting in a way where they're they're submitting. They're saying like, oh, 577 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: Jason vorhees right, please don't I submit? And then you realize, oh, wait, 578 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: I don't have to submit to Jason Vores because he's 579 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,959 Speaker 1: pretend look, Pennywise, I'm laughing, don't meet me. We humans 580 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: seem to have adapted the smile to express approval, joy, compassion, 581 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: sometimes sympathy. But when we recognize a dangerous situation, we 582 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: may still smile at it. And this line of thought 583 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: about laughter trends toward evolutionary history. Now, the second idea 584 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: that's going on here is I mentioned this earlier, the 585 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,959 Speaker 1: mature defense mechanism that represents our denial of fear. So 586 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: with this type of laughter, we're actually trying to convince 587 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: ourselves that everything's okay, and it's a signal that we 588 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: can endure whatever trauma is in front of us. So 589 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: humor seems to be a way to put our fears 590 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: into perspective. It allows us to strengthen our ability to 591 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: confront them. And then if you can laugh at something 592 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: like that, well that surely must show you've got some 593 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: courage or at least are you know, you might wish 594 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: for that courage because laughter seems to banish anxiety. I'm 595 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: thinking of the classic scene of like two gun slingers 596 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: standing each other down and there both the stone faced 597 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: and then one laughs are snickers, and it's like, that's 598 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: that's the the indicator, right, It's the same thing. That's 599 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: what's going on with these maccaques, basically, like, uh, it's 600 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: actually it's the opposite of what's going on with these maccaques, 601 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: where it's like, rather than showing that I'm submissive, it's 602 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: like I'm not afraid of this. I'm so not afraid 603 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: of this that I'm gonna laugh at how silly this 604 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: situation is. Yeah, and I think we've seen that in 605 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: various cinematic showdowns, like occasionally like that, the tension will 606 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: be so uh, you know, grim that somebody will break 607 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: it with about by saying making a kissy face or something. Right, Yeah, exactly. 608 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: So there's actually an experiment that speaks to this in 609 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: which volunteers were asked to be head a mouse. They 610 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: were actually like human beings were asked to volunteer to 611 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: behead a mouse, and their faces were photographed while they 612 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: did it, and when they did, the photographs showed that 613 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: they had pained, uncomfortable smiles. This is like the creepiest 614 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: thing ever that all these people were smiling while they 615 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: were cutting the heads off these mice. I'm assuming these 616 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: were dead mice. I don't know, man, I don't know. 617 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to go with that assumption. Now, the first 618 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: idea that we talked about, that one trended towards evolutionary history. 619 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: This line of thought is more accepted by psychologists and neuroscientists, 620 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: and actually Freud, for instance, was a big proponent of 621 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: this theory. So maybe though, here's here's another backup, and 622 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: this gets back to what you're talking about with forms 623 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: of humor. Maybe this kind of nervous laughter is an 624 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: expression of incongruous emotional reactions. For instance, when we feel 625 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: like we might be overwhelmed by our emotions, whether they're 626 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: positive or negative, we might express the opposite emotion to 627 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: have a dampening effect and kind of restore some kind 628 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: of emotional balance. It's interesting that reminds me of the 629 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: theory on the pinching of baby cheeks. What's that? This 630 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,720 Speaker 1: is the idea that occasionally you will encounter something so cute. 631 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: It might be a baby and be a puppy, a 632 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: kitten so cute that you have to hurt it to 633 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: like restore balance. So the baby is so cute, you 634 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: just gotta pinch it. You've got to basically assault the 635 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: baby so that you you won't just completely explode. There 636 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: used to be a bit about this on that old 637 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: MTV sketch show The State. They had a whole bit 638 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 1: about this old lady who was who her grandson was 639 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: so cute that she had to try to crush his 640 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: face and the people in the store that she was 641 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: in We're trying desperately to prevent her from two inks, 642 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: and it turns into this whole farcical adventure. Yeah, I mean, 643 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: I've certainly felt the like the weird urge to bite 644 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: an infant for executeness or a puppy or a kitten 645 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: before it's it's a very strange situation. Yeah, maybe we 646 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: should return to that. That That is an interesting that's 647 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: uh an interesting like crossing of wires in the brain, 648 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: kind of similar to our episode on the Call of 649 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: the Void. Yeah, um yeah, we'll eat you up. We 650 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: love you so. Yeah. From The Wild Things all right, 651 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back, 652 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: all right. So, um, I think at this point I 653 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: want to come back around to some of the theories 654 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, uh, talking more expressly about humor, and say, 655 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: all right, how do they how do they line up 656 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: with horror? So, first of all, incongruity theory, which again 657 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: suggests that humor blooms when people notice the disconnect between 658 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: their expectations and the actual payoff. I can certainly see 659 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: where this could come into into play, especially with all 660 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 1: the misdirections and jump scares that one encounters in modern 661 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: horror movies and in haunted houses. That's a good point. Yeah, 662 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: horror films may actually be a phenomena of both incongruity 663 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 1: and transgression. So maybe we're laughing when there's this incongruous 664 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: event that goes against our expectations or veers from harmlessness 665 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: into actual potential dangerous territory. It also brings to mind 666 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: a Raskins somatic script based theory of humor, and this 667 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: ideas that humor involves the activation of two opposing scripts 668 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: such as sex no sex good bad, and humor comes 669 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: from the incongruity here of these two activated scripts. So 670 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: like danger, but not danger because I'm in a theater. Now, 671 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: as far as this superiority theory of humor goes, I 672 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: think there's certainly plenty of misfortune to take pleasure in 673 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: and most horror movies, either if you're kind of a 674 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,879 Speaker 1: terrible person, or if the movie encourages you to take 675 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: pleasure in the mutilation and death of its characters, which 676 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: we especially see in so many nineteen eighties slasher films. Right, 677 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: you have like the bad Boy, the bad Girl, you know, 678 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: these various archetypical kids that the movie is basically saying, Look, 679 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: they deserve to be killed by Jason or whoever the 680 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: slasher is, and only a couple of characters are above 681 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: that treatment. Yes, slasher movies in particular use this kind 682 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: of old Testament punishment system as being an excuse for 683 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: why there's such horrible violence being enacted, and it's supposed 684 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: to encourage us to, you know, be okay with it. Yeah, 685 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: it's it's a very certainly a very sacrificial feel to it. 686 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: So the next time you watch a horror movie, ask yourself, 687 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: which of these characters are are okay? To die according 688 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: to the film, and which ones are not? Yeah, and like, 689 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: who am I made to identify with? Yeah? Right, in 690 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: some situations you're made to identify with Freddy Krueger or 691 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: Jason Vorhees rather than the like, sexually active kids that 692 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: they're slaughtering. Yeah, there was. There was a wonderful treatment 693 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: of this. Years ago. There's a Michael Caine film titled 694 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: A Shock to the System. I've never seen this. It's 695 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: quite good because he plays just a normal guy who 696 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: suddenly realizes that he can kill people, that he can 697 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: kill people in his life that he doesn't like that 698 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: inconvenience him, or that there's to whom there's some advantage, 699 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,720 Speaker 1: you know, to murdering them, and and he starts killing 700 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: these people, and for most to the film, he's killing 701 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: people that we we see through his eyes and therefore think, yeah, 702 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: they should go. They're annoying, they're terrible, And we follow 703 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: that up to a point and then we realize, Okay, 704 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm not cool with you killing anybody else anymore. Michael Caine, 705 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: huh this have you seen Harry Brown? I don't think 706 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: I have. It sounds very similar. It's another Michael Caine movie. 707 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: Harry Brown is like Michael Caine is a senior citizen 708 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: who lives in block housing, and uh, he essentially becomes 709 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: a vigilante. It just starts like murdering criminals in his neighborhood, 710 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: even though he's like this, this kind of daughtering old 711 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 1: senior citizen. Yeah, it all comes down to the question 712 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: is the character or the slasher murdering the wrong sort 713 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: of person? Yeah, alright, And then let's talk about relief theory. 714 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 1: The states that comedy again is a way for people 715 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: to release suppress thoughts and emotions safely. So for this 716 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: kind of gets into the similar territory. So you have 717 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: this cardboard cutout of a person. Let's say it's um, 718 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's say it's a bo us or 719 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: or something more mundane, like a rude driver. Like without 720 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: a lot of character investment, we're generally okay with the 721 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 1: idea of Jason or he's killing a rude driver or 722 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 1: or some other slasher person killing the bad boss. Whatever 723 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: the the you know, the crude cardboard cutout of a 724 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: human is. This is why the Hannibal Elector stuff is 725 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: so popular because in a lot of ways, he's like 726 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: an anti hero. People see him positively even though he's 727 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: the serial killer that eats people because he only well, 728 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: it tends to only eat people who are rude, right, 729 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean he eats the rude. It for 730 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: us denizens of the real world, Uh, it is um 731 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: it's it's quite wrong for us to eat rude people 732 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: just because they're rude. It's at least a little bit 733 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: icky to fantasize about eating rude people because they are rude. 734 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: But we can safely get that same sort of relief 735 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,720 Speaker 1: by watching Hannibal elector do it instead. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 736 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: So all of this leads us to the connection between 737 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: horror and humor, and this seems to have become increasingly 738 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: popular in our fiction in the last few decades. Think 739 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: of how many like goofy horror movies there are now, right, 740 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: and the sort of silly combination of these. So I 741 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: found this actual quote from one of our favorites here 742 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: at Stuff to Blow Your Mind Stewart Gordon. He's the 743 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,919 Speaker 1: maker of films like Reanimator from Beyond and Castle Freak. Uh. 744 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: And he tells the story about how Alfred Hitchcock referred 745 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: to Psycho as a comedy. Uh. And he said that 746 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: Hitchcock's point was that there's this very fine line between 747 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: getting someone to laugh and getting them to scream. And 748 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: so perhaps this is why many creators like Gordon himself 749 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: now are finding it best to just alternate between the 750 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: two rather than going with like a straight comedy or 751 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: straight horror film. They're introducing both in the same context. 752 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: But uh, why what's going on? They They're supposed to 753 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: be different, right, Horror oppresses us, comedy liberates us, Horror 754 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: turns the screws, comedy releases it. Comedy elates us. Horror 755 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: stimulates depression, paranoia, and dread. They're supposed to be opposites. 756 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. After this episode and talking about all 757 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: these weird convergences between the two, it really feels like 758 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: we stand at an intersection of of horror street and 759 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: humor boulevard. I think so that the traffics flowing both ways. Well, 760 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: and if we bring it all the way back around 761 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: to it where we started talking about this, the trope 762 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: of the evil Clown plays with this whole relationship of 763 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: humor and horror, and it creates in itself this incongruous 764 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: object of laughter. Right, So it's no wonder that people 765 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: were laughing while we are watching this new movie. Yeah, 766 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: and you know, another factor that comes to mind is 767 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: is that you have an individuals that are watching the 768 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: film alone. Uh, and then you have individuals who are 769 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: watching it more socially, like I was there with somebody, 770 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: but we weren't really talking during the film. Other people 771 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: were having more of a like a social engagement with 772 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: the picture. And you, of course can get into a 773 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,919 Speaker 1: lot of arguments about to what degree that's that's that's 774 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: sort of breaking the rules of going to a movie theater. 775 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: But still there's there does seem to sometimes be this 776 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: to this drastic difference between their social engagement with each 777 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: other during the film. Well, speaking of social engagement, Robert, 778 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: if people out there want to socially engage with us, 779 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: how can they do it? Oh? Well, they can head 780 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: on over to any number of our social media accounts. 781 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: Were on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Instagram. Uh, We're we have 782 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: a group. Even you go to Facebook, you look up 783 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: the stuff to Blew your Mind discussion module. You have 784 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: to ask to join, but you'll probably get in and 785 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: then you can you can interact not only with us, 786 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: but you can interact with with other like minded listeners 787 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: to the show. Yeah, so I'd like to ask you, listeners, 788 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: let us know what you think about this whole thing 789 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: with people laughing at horror movies, whether it's in the 790 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: theater or not. Do you think the theories that we 791 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: presented are you know, potentially valid or is there something 792 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,399 Speaker 1: else going on here that we missed? And how does 793 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: your experience with a horror movie and a haunted house 794 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: or haunted attraction. How do those differ? Because from my 795 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: own point point of view, I don't really laugh while 796 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,479 Speaker 1: watching a horror movie generally, but I certainly laugh after 797 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: being scared at a haunted house. Like there's for me, 798 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: there's an experiential difference between the cinematic scare and the 799 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,320 Speaker 1: real world pretends scare. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And one last 800 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: way you can get in touch with us about this 801 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: is the old fashioned way. That's on email at blow 802 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 1: the Mind at how stuff works dot com for more 803 00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how 804 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. The Big f