Speaker 1: All right, ba fam welcome. It's Friday, and y'all know
Speaker 1: what time it is. It's a b a QA and
Speaker 1: I have got a lovely guest in the studio with me,
Speaker 1: mister Chris Browning Popcorn Finance Welcome.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Maddy always get talking with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like you have some nerdy knowledge that
Speaker 1: I don't and some like pretty obscure topics. And this
Speaker 1: is not a dig I don't know why you're laughing
Speaker 1: like I'm making I'm not.
Speaker 2: This is a compliment. It's not like you fight.
Speaker 1: Let me run it back in my mind. You have
Speaker 1: some nerdy knowledge too. Yeah, yeah, I don't see that's
Speaker 1: a compliment. You're welcome. You're welcome from you.
Speaker 2: That's a compliment.
Speaker 1: Thank you, truly, truly, truly. But you do have some
Speaker 1: great like nuanced knowledge and like the nitty gritty of
Speaker 1: financial topics. So I'm excited to have you in the
Speaker 1: studio today. Welcome to the BAQA. We're kicking off the
Speaker 1: new year with some juicy questions. We're gonna tackle one
Speaker 1: that's like a mix between four to one k excuse me,
Speaker 1: and life insurance, and we're going to tackle another one
Speaker 1: that is all for a one K and pretty confusing
Speaker 1: like match situation. So heading into the new year as
Speaker 1: employees trying to figure out your employee matching your four
Speaker 1: to one k stuff, we got you. But before we
Speaker 1: get into the questions, just a little disclaimer, like, don't
Speaker 1: come sue us. This is just for purely financial edutainment.
Speaker 1: We're here too. I don't know if it's entertaining, but
Speaker 1: you know it's here as as just information. Okay, you
Speaker 1: don't have to follow our advice. It's just as a
Speaker 1: hmm let me see what they have to say about
Speaker 1: it type vibe. Okay, So don't sue me for sure, Chris,
Speaker 1: do you want them to like.
Speaker 2: I would appreciate it if they didn't.
Speaker 1: They give them your address?
Speaker 2: Okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, okay.
Speaker 1: Sons don't. Just just to be clear, don't sue Chris either. Okay,
Speaker 1: he doesn't got it like that. Okay.
Speaker 2: Please.
Speaker 1: A man's moving to San Francisco, he's got a new
Speaker 1: saying he can't he can't be dealing with legal paperwork.
Speaker 2: Okay, I got expenses.
Speaker 1: Come on, So we're just here for fundies, not your
Speaker 1: financial advisors. You got to get your own financial advice,
Speaker 1: your own financial planner, your ow investment advisor, all those
Speaker 1: good things. But we are here to take some of
Speaker 1: our listener questions and we love to do it. So
Speaker 1: as a reminder, y'all can submit your questions. You can
Speaker 1: send us a DM on ig at Brand Ambisson Podcast
Speaker 1: or you can email us Brand Ambisson podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. So please please please send in your questions.
Speaker 1: The mail bag is, you know, looking a little light
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year, so let's get some
Speaker 1: new juicy questions in there, y'all. And to our new
Speaker 1: listeners who maybe found us from this viral TikTok post,
Speaker 1: welcome and hello and thanks for actually tuning in. You're
Speaker 1: in the right place. We're happy to have you. All right,
Speaker 1: So diving into our first listener question of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Five, let's go.
Speaker 1: All right, Chris, you're ready for our first question?
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: I'm shaking my shoulders back, all right, it says, I
Speaker 1: am thirty seven. I'm gonna be Oh, this is from
Speaker 1: Nadine and Ig. I am thirty seven. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be thirty eight next month. I lost my job, so
Speaker 1: I no longer have health or life insurance through them.
Speaker 1: I was thinking of getting my own policy outside of
Speaker 1: my employer, and right now I'm trying to decide between
Speaker 1: term and whole life insurance. I also want to grow
Speaker 1: wealth with my policy at some point? Is this realistic?
Speaker 1: I don't have kids yet, but I just feel like
Speaker 1: it's something that adults should have. Also, can you talk
Speaker 1: a bit about investing through your four to one K
Speaker 1: versus the IUL, which, thanks to the power of Google
Speaker 1: I know stands for Index Universal Life Policy to ne
Speaker 1: get that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds right to me.
Speaker 1: Yes, Hold on, I'm gonna double check real quick. Yeah yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: Index Universal Life Insurance versus a WROTH. Okay. So there
Speaker 1: is a lot of like alphabet soup in this question, Chris,
Speaker 1: So this is important and so we're going to tackle
Speaker 1: it together. Hold my virtual hands ba FAM. All right,
Speaker 1: So starting with the initial question, life insurance policy. She's
Speaker 1: thirty eight, has no kids, considering getting her own life
Speaker 1: insurance policy. Is that something that she should consider?
Speaker 2: You know, whenever I hear people talk about like should
Speaker 2: they get life insurance, I'm always the first thing comes
Speaker 2: to my mind is like you should be thinking for
Speaker 2: who like, who is this for? Because you will no
Speaker 2: longer be here on this earth, so you're not going
Speaker 2: to get to enjoy the money. So is there somebody
Speaker 2: in particular who would need your income that's going to
Speaker 2: be lost now? And that's basically what you're replacing, right
Speaker 2: because if you have a spouse who you're obviously you're
Speaker 2: part of that, you know, financial contributions to the home,
Speaker 2: if you have kids who have expenses that are going
Speaker 2: to keep going on then Yet, but oftentimes made for
Speaker 2: single people, there's not really a reason to have life
Speaker 2: insurance unless you have unless you can come up with
Speaker 2: a very valid reason, like you want to leave some
Speaker 2: large chunk of money to a foundation or something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, you're just existing and by yourself,
Speaker 2: you're perfectly fine. To me. You can just gift and
Speaker 2: give the money that you accumulate. So you should be like,
Speaker 2: as you're planning for retirement, you're saying for emergencies, you
Speaker 2: have something set aside and you can give that away
Speaker 2: as a gift without having to take on the expense
Speaker 2: of like a term or whole life insurance policy. So
Speaker 2: for me, in this situation, if you're single, thirty seven,
Speaker 2: thirty eight. No kids, No spouse's going to rely on
Speaker 2: your income, no family member that you're supporting, and they're
Speaker 2: going to be in a tough spot when you're gone.
Speaker 2: It's no one who's depending on your income.
Speaker 1: Then no one needs you.
Speaker 2: They may need your friendship. You know, you do you
Speaker 2: have life insurance?
Speaker 1: You're you're no technically single and no kids?
Speaker 2: No, not anymore. I did when I was working and
Speaker 2: I was married, I had a life insurance policy. But
Speaker 2: after that, I'm like, who is this for. I'm like,
Speaker 2: if once I events, I vacate this earth, whatever money
Speaker 2: I've saved for retirement, I'm going to just give that
Speaker 2: to my family and my niece. You can help pay
Speaker 2: for college or help out you know, anyone else in
Speaker 2: my life. But I'm at this point I don't need
Speaker 2: a life insurance policy. If all was of a sudden, I.
Speaker 1: Put me down for that fancy microphone, I would like that,
Speaker 1: just you know, think a little posted on it.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be, it's gonna be. I have i'mna have
Speaker 2: a little uh insult counter in my will and then
Speaker 2: want people to go back and review these records.
Speaker 1: Put them on the tombstone.
Speaker 2: Yes, you definitely give you do this.
Speaker 1: His beard connects and nothing else.
Speaker 2: I like that. That's the best. That's like the best
Speaker 2: thing you can say about me is like your beard
Speaker 2: connects every time. Just think it's such a.
Speaker 1: Fun sentence to say, like your beard connects. I don't know,
Speaker 1: and it just matters in some way that I don't understand.
Speaker 1: I just think it's funny, does it really? There's nothing
Speaker 1: to connect it too, because it's.
Speaker 2: You know what, there it's one more wait, you wasted
Speaker 2: one of your insults on this point. It was pointless.
Speaker 2: You already wasted it now, but it.
Speaker 1: Feels so good. It's like a medicine for me. Okay,
Speaker 1: So anyway back to Nadine's question, if we could, this
Speaker 1: is a very serious podcast, Chris, okay, So we're talking
Speaker 1: about life insurance. So now term versus whole, you know,
Speaker 1: simply put, term is like, so I have a term policy.
Speaker 1: I think it's twenty or twenty five years, which is
Speaker 1: basically my prime working years. So something happens to me
Speaker 1: for the next twenty twenty five years, I know my
Speaker 1: family is going to be Okay. It kind of sucks
Speaker 1: to have to pay anything into that pool, and it's
Speaker 1: not cheap because I'm black and at the time I
Speaker 1: had just given birth, I had just gotten on like
Speaker 1: an antidepressant. Oh, some policies won't even like cover you
Speaker 1: if you have that kind of thing on your record.
Speaker 1: So anyway, my monthly payment is like one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty bucks. It ain't cheap. And so the next question,
Speaker 1: so there is this sense that some life insurance policies
Speaker 1: are more of like an investment vehicle. So now Nadine's
Speaker 1: asking about, like, do you can you talk about using
Speaker 1: a four to one K versus the index Universal Life
Speaker 1: policy versus a WROTH four one K or roth IRA.
Speaker 1: Maybe I feel like for BA FAM, the first thing
Speaker 1: maybe confusing to them is like what even is an
Speaker 1: IUL insurance plan? Can you make it simple for us?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to try to use this few words
Speaker 2: as possible to descrive this. But indexed Universal Life think
Speaker 2: of it as a version, like a variation of a
Speaker 2: whole life insurance policy. So whole life is meant to
Speaker 2: be you just can keep paying those premiums for the
Speaker 2: entirety of your life, and then at whatever point you die,
Speaker 2: that benefit would go to whoever you designate, whereas like
Speaker 2: with term right, once that period of time is up,
Speaker 2: the policy goes away like there doesn't exist anymore. So
Speaker 2: if you were to pass away after the term is up,
Speaker 2: then no one would get any money.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: There was just more like a security for you if
Speaker 2: something were to happen when people needed you during that time.
Speaker 2: So the Index Universal Life it kind of takes it
Speaker 2: a step further. So with the whole life policy, typically
Speaker 2: it's just very simple. You're just giving your premiums and
Speaker 2: then they gave you this benefit whenever you need it.
Speaker 2: With the Index Universal Life it lets you kind of
Speaker 2: invest some of the value that can kind of grow
Speaker 2: in these policies. Right, you have like a death benefit,
Speaker 2: which is the money that like if you get a
Speaker 2: million dollar policy, that's the death benefit. But you can
Speaker 2: if you put as you put more money into the
Speaker 2: policy develop I kind of almost like excess cash that
Speaker 2: kind of over it being invested over time, it has
Speaker 2: that extra value to it. So they allow you to
Speaker 2: take that money and then kind of almost like a
Speaker 2: four to one k like choose some options to throw
Speaker 2: that that money into, and so it gets marketed as
Speaker 2: this is a great wealth tool. It's a great way
Speaker 2: to invest, and because you're building up this money and
Speaker 2: you need to avoid taxes, all these things. But the
Speaker 2: thing they oft sometimes don't tell you about is one
Speaker 2: whole life policies are much more expensive than term life policies.
Speaker 2: They can be you know, up to like ten times
Speaker 2: more per month for the same amount of money the
Speaker 2: same amount of coverage. So you're already giving way more
Speaker 2: money up front into.
Speaker 1: Bucks a month for life insurance. Like do you need
Speaker 1: life insurance?
Speaker 2: Like you needed that bad?
Speaker 1: You got the money in the bank for the family.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it might be okay if you get
Speaker 2: four a ton of money every month in these premiums.
Speaker 2: And then on top of that, they oftentimes will cap.
Speaker 2: They do cap your losses, which is one of the
Speaker 2: selling points, like, oh, look, we can make sure you
Speaker 2: don't lose too much money. Because you put your money
Speaker 2: into the stock market, if it goes down a lot,
Speaker 2: you have this big downside. But with us, we can
Speaker 2: protect you on the downside. But the only reason they
Speaker 2: can do that is because they also cap how much
Speaker 2: you can earn. So even if the stock market makes
Speaker 2: twenty percent, you may not be getting all that they're
Speaker 2: going to keep the difference. They may say, we're going
Speaker 2: to cap you at nine percent and they get to
Speaker 2: keep the eleven percent that it earns over that. So
Speaker 2: there are all these things in place that they're like,
Speaker 2: even think about an insurance company, they're going to make
Speaker 2: sure they come out on top, right, They're not in
Speaker 2: the business of losing money. So it sounds like a
Speaker 2: great deal, but oftentimes there's these fees if you try
Speaker 2: to get out early. There's the fact that you can
Speaker 2: only earn so much in these policies. It cost you
Speaker 2: a lot every month that oftentimes don't make the math
Speaker 2: makes sense anymore. You would have been better off just
Speaker 2: putting it in your four one K or your IRA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean with the traditional four to one K
Speaker 1: you get the pre tax benefit, so you're putting in
Speaker 1: funds before taxes have been taken out. Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: It just sounds like one of those products that people
Speaker 1: with a lot of money get talked into investing in
Speaker 1: because they have a fancy financial advisor who gets made
Speaker 1: who gets mad kickbacks, and they're not so worried about
Speaker 1: little fees, like they're just kind of like letting an
Speaker 1: advisor kind of take their money and do things with it.
Speaker 1: And I think for like the average person, it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like the kind of tool that makes sense long
Speaker 1: term for investing.
Speaker 2: To me, the red flag, oh well go a sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just based on what I've read and what you've
Speaker 1: said so far, I'm not a fan.
Speaker 2: And to me, the red flag is you see a
Speaker 2: lot of people, even on not TikTok all for social media,
Speaker 2: I see a lot of people who are like salespeople
Speaker 2: for these insurance policies where ITA's whole life. Sometime they
Speaker 2: call it infinite bankings and they call it index like
Speaker 2: they have all these names infinite banking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have all those targeted to like dudes like, oh.
Speaker 2: You know what it is, don't You would have banked
Speaker 2: that just gives you infinite money. It's crazy, but you
Speaker 2: think about it, Why are these people why are they
Speaker 2: putting so much energy into selling these products to try
Speaker 2: to get you to get it because they make a
Speaker 2: lot of commission on it. You don't see those people
Speaker 2: doing that for term life insurance. You don't see a
Speaker 2: bunch of videos like oh here's how I can make
Speaker 2: you money with term left because there's not an incentive
Speaker 2: for them to do it. So to me, that's the
Speaker 2: red flag. If a bunch of people I don't know
Speaker 2: where want to just sell me this, there's in it
Speaker 2: for them. They're not doing this out of the kindness
Speaker 2: of their heart, and.
Speaker 1: They're doing it because they don't think you're going to
Speaker 1: kick the bucket anytime soon. Exactly, really underwright so that
Speaker 1: they can pick people who probably will be alive and
Speaker 1: never need the money. That's the truth of it. It's
Speaker 1: such a gross, kind of morbid, but fascinating industry. Necessary.
Speaker 2: I believe in.
Speaker 1: Insurance for sure, Oh yeah, for sure, But it's just
Speaker 1: interesting the life insurance policy and the underwriting process and how, yeah,
Speaker 1: how they completely can predict down I've heard this guy.
Speaker 1: He was on a podcast I was listening to. I
Speaker 1: don't know his name, doesn't really matter, but he worked
Speaker 1: for in the insurance underwriting business for a very long time,
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, we know we can. We have
Speaker 1: these like really scary calculations that if you saw you'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh shit, I'm want to die when because
Speaker 1: they figure that out? Okay, but so Chris, you're you're
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, you worked until when did you officially go
Speaker 1: one hundred percent and this whole popcin.
Speaker 2: Popcorn thing twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: Sorry, but the popcam I don't know where that came from.
Speaker 2: Twenty one. We're so happy you know so much about me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, So how are you investing now
Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur?
Speaker 2: Oh? So I still go through uh IRA. That That's
Speaker 2: what I've been using. So I have obviously had all
Speaker 2: my retirement from when I was working my day job,
Speaker 2: but I still use an IRA. I haven't graduated over
Speaker 2: to doing like a opening up a four one K
Speaker 2: through my business. That's like I'm thinking about that down
Speaker 2: the line, solo four one K. I have one of those,
Speaker 2: but for now, like IRA still works perfectly fine.
Speaker 1: Well, but isn't there a limit on the how much
Speaker 1: you can control or that's just the roth IRA.
Speaker 2: Well there is, so you do have. I do have
Speaker 2: the same contribution limit when I do like I'm doing
Speaker 2: a typical iry like everyone else would would do. I'm
Speaker 2: not doing like the like a sep ira, which is
Speaker 2: like for self employed people where you have higher cap
Speaker 2: on that to what you can do. And that's because
Speaker 2: I'd already thankfully have done a pretty good job of
Speaker 2: investing before I left my job that I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't need to max out as high as I
Speaker 2: was doing before, so at least for now, I may
Speaker 2: change my mind. I'm like, you know what, I want
Speaker 2: to accelerate it. But with the current limits, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm still good based off of what my plans were.
Speaker 1: Like seven thousand for the year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is last year, seven thousand. I think it's
Speaker 2: still the same issue. I didn'tcheck the twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: limits yet.
Speaker 1: Ohkay, gotcha, Yeah, I need to. I kind of forget.
Speaker 1: It's usually something my CPA or my advisor is like, hey,
Speaker 1: and max out your wroth iray, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't feel like saving money. It just feels
Speaker 1: like but I wanted that exactly.
Speaker 2: It's like I can doing something with this man.
Speaker 1: Thirty something me, twenty four year old me would be
Speaker 1: just be appalled by some of the basic like personal
Speaker 1: finance failures I have been making lately, just because she's
Speaker 1: like she would be like, Mandy, come on, like what
Speaker 1: about our seven savings accounts? What about lifestyle inflation and
Speaker 1: keeping that away?
Speaker 2: You know, life happens, though it's easy to get get
Speaker 2: pulled into life and they say, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yes, it truly does. But I do need to
Speaker 1: start thinking more about like future me and how I
Speaker 1: want to create like a certain lifestyle for myself so
Speaker 1: I can be there for my kids and to like
Speaker 1: be a certain kind of just really have my golden
Speaker 1: years sooner than I would otherwise. And I got to
Speaker 1: tap more into that future future me future.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think having a couple of
Speaker 2: kids kind of really does make you have other things
Speaker 2: you're thinking about.
Speaker 1: I think you have nothing for everything though home, Like
Speaker 1: I'm telling you therapy, I think you know it's I
Speaker 1: gotta take some responsibility. Okay, Well, thank you Nadine for
Speaker 1: your question and for and for Chris for almost making
Speaker 1: that makes sense for me, Like I kind of get it,
Speaker 1: and I hope you do too, pa fam. But it's
Speaker 1: also a good reminder. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I think that wasn't so mean. I think you were
Speaker 2: on pace to lose the ability to get this microphone
Speaker 2: like by the end of this recording, like.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need that, Mike.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you to Nadine for your question. We're
Speaker 1: gonna move on, be right back we have another juicy
Speaker 1: question for y'all. Be right back. Okay, be a fan.
Speaker 1: I'm back with Chris Browning a popcorn finance and we
Speaker 1: have our second question twenty twenty five from a listener, Christa,
Speaker 1: who sent us an email and she says, Hey, brown Ambition,
Speaker 1: I hope you are well. I have a question about
Speaker 1: my job. I started a new hourly position in January.
Speaker 1: After a few months, I was given the opportunity to
Speaker 1: start an internship or role sharing in a new field
Speaker 1: within the company. I have been excelling at this position
Speaker 1: and everyone has been complimentary, including my boss and the CEO.
Speaker 1: Now that the internship has ended, I have been and
Speaker 1: I've been given an offer. To my surprise, I only
Speaker 1: received a title change, no raise, no transition to salaried employee.
Speaker 1: I'm frustrated that I've gotten no pay bump even though
Speaker 1: my workload has more than doubled. I've decided that I
Speaker 1: should accept the junior position and wait for a year,
Speaker 1: other than go back to the position that I was
Speaker 1: originally hired for. I tried negotiating for PTO and more
Speaker 1: flexible schedule to no avail. I want to grow in
Speaker 1: this new position, but it feels that the company is
Speaker 1: getting a steep discount for my work. Also, the workload
Speaker 1: is a lot. To be honest, the original position I
Speaker 1: had was less demanding, and I would just be focused
Speaker 1: on one department. I feel like I'm going to get
Speaker 1: if I'm going to get paid the same, why not
Speaker 1: just stick to the less busy the less busy title.
Speaker 1: It can be frustrating seeing others do a lot less
Speaker 1: work for the same pay. Which would you choose?
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a tough question. I'm really curious to
Speaker 2: hear your response is because me and being a people pleaser,
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I can't. I had to take the job, right,
Speaker 2: I had to take the tible because they offered it
Speaker 2: to me. What if I say no, are they're going
Speaker 2: to risk? I know it's wrong. That's why that's why
Speaker 2: I come to you. I come to Mandy with these
Speaker 2: type of questions.
Speaker 1: Confused by that response. I don't understand it. Hell no,
Speaker 1: so girl, it's funny because so I'm writing this book
Speaker 1: right now, right And one of the beautiful things about
Speaker 1: this process is that I'm an email hoarder, and I
Speaker 1: save an email from people, and I went back over
Speaker 1: ten years ago and I found this email from a
Speaker 1: mentor of mine. His name was Ray Matoyer and he's
Speaker 1: he was a brilliant journalist. I say it was because
Speaker 1: he unfortunately passed away last year. He had cancer. And
Speaker 1: Ray was, you know, he was young, he's probably in
Speaker 1: like his sixties, but he took the time to send
Speaker 1: baby Mandy an email. And I was in a similar
Speaker 1: position as Christa here, and I was a I was
Speaker 1: a reporter at Business Insider and my editor had just
Speaker 1: been let go because she went mongering. And I am,
Speaker 1: I guess a snake, And I was like me, may
Speaker 1: me gim me anyway, I went for her job and
Speaker 1: they said yes, and then they gave me a very
Speaker 1: small pay bump even though I was doing who I
Speaker 1: was moving from a reporter to editor and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I remember at the time, Ray was like, yes,
Speaker 1: say thank you and accept what you've been given and
Speaker 1: then go out and find another job and go out
Speaker 1: and get a competing offer. And that's really the only
Speaker 1: thing I can say to you. Krista is like, yep, well,
Speaker 1: they are telling you what they want to give you
Speaker 1: and it's not and they're telling you like it's not fair.
Speaker 1: You can see that, you can see that they don't
Speaker 1: really value the additional work that you're doing. They are
Speaker 1: trying to get you at a cheap price and they
Speaker 1: think they got you, and right now they do because
Speaker 1: you don't have a competing offer to use as leverage.
Speaker 1: Now you could definitely argue them, like, I think the
Speaker 1: financial morals of the situation is like, hey, your people,
Speaker 1: you know, commenceate with like their skills and the value
Speaker 1: you're getting from them. That's shady on their part, but
Speaker 1: it's also the it's the reality that you're in. So
Speaker 1: I think I would make it my job Krista to
Speaker 1: take these and you've done. I think we're smart to
Speaker 1: get the opportunity to intern in this different, you know,
Speaker 1: department and get all these great skills, take that great skill,
Speaker 1: take those great skills and leverage them for another opportunity
Speaker 1: at a different company that will pay you what you're worth.
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, that is unfortunately
Speaker 1: one of the challenges of being loyal to an employer come,
Speaker 1: especially when you're coming an entry level or you're coming
Speaker 1: in like at a part time or hourly worker status,
Speaker 1: is that sometimes companies will purposefully recruit, you know, younger,
Speaker 1: more inexperienced people and try to like nurture that talent
Speaker 1: and keep them loyal because they will spend less money
Speaker 1: over time on those employees because you're kind of starting
Speaker 1: out at the very bottom and they only have to
Speaker 1: give you so much of a raise to make you
Speaker 1: feel like you're making progress, where the reality is that
Speaker 1: if you go out into the open market, open job market,
Speaker 1: and put yourself up, you know, for different jobs, you
Speaker 1: may find that they are more willing to pay you
Speaker 1: a premium because as they know, they have to. One
Speaker 1: they have to attract you from another company, so they
Speaker 1: have to kind of beat what you're already earning. And
Speaker 1: secondly that you're out there and they don't consider you
Speaker 1: someone who has been with the company for five years
Speaker 1: and started low, like they're just going to pay you
Speaker 1: your market value where they should pay you your market
Speaker 1: value at the time. So I'm always like, I think
Speaker 1: about that email from Ray, and I'm grateful to him
Speaker 1: for giving me that advice, because I really do think
Speaker 1: it kicked off my whole you know, my lack of
Speaker 1: I was gonna say my lack of loyalty. It makes
Speaker 1: it sound so shady, but just my my understanding of
Speaker 1: how it works and how it's not like you're It's
Speaker 1: not that you're not people pleasing, it's like, but who
Speaker 1: are the people you want to please? And trying to
Speaker 1: please companies to save them money is just not in alignment.
Speaker 1: That's a good phrase. It's not in alignment with like
Speaker 1: what I want, what I wanted for my finances and
Speaker 1: my career, and it doesn't have to be all it's okay,
Speaker 1: so go get you another job, Krista and Chris, Wait,
Speaker 1: is this really you? Christ and Chris?
Speaker 2: I was like, let me change it just a little bit.
Speaker 2: I was in the exact same bank. When I say
Speaker 2: people pleasing, I meant like I would take the job
Speaker 2: because I'm like, if I say no, they're going to
Speaker 2: treat me. You know, well, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: She has you could take the job like you gotta
Speaker 1: get paid.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because I was in a very similar position.
Speaker 2: I was. I was working running a payer, having run
Speaker 2: a pay roll department, and the person above me they
Speaker 2: retired and I just took I had took on all
Speaker 2: the roles in the meantime right I was doing I
Speaker 2: was basically doing the job, and I was doing the
Speaker 2: job of two people because it was me and her
Speaker 2: and now it was just me. And then when they
Speaker 2: finally got around offered me the job, they downgraded it
Speaker 2: was like a senior position. They took the senior away,
Speaker 2: and I like, well, you just don't have as much experience.
Speaker 2: I was like, but I've been doing the job this
Speaker 2: whole time, Like, oh, you know, HR just couldn't allow it,
Speaker 2: you know, without your experience. And I'm like okay. So
Speaker 2: I took the job, and then I went and got
Speaker 2: another job, and I was already I was so fed
Speaker 2: up with this jo. I hated this place. I hated
Speaker 2: working here. So when I get the job, I get
Speaker 2: I going to tell my boss, Hey, I'm putting in
Speaker 2: my two weeks. He's like, well, is there anything we
Speaker 2: can do to keep you. I'm like, well you want
Speaker 2: to give that chance? Right? Yeah, no, I'm leaving. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty much.
Speaker 1: God yeah, no, one hundred percent. Okay. That that definitely
Speaker 1: makes that definitely makes sense. I mean some like the
Speaker 1: reality sometimes is like we gotta make money, so yeah,
Speaker 1: take the job. I mean, in her case, the question
Speaker 1: between like should you go back to being an hourly
Speaker 1: worker versus take the more demanding job even though they
Speaker 1: both are paying the same I lean toward take the
Speaker 1: more challenging role because of the experience you're going to
Speaker 1: get and how you can leverage that for a new
Speaker 1: role elsewhere. But you could also argue, I guess that
Speaker 1: take the hourly job and then spend more time on
Speaker 1: the job search, spend more time you know, maybe getting
Speaker 1: like contract or clients or something like that. But I
Speaker 1: can I can see it both ways, but I definitely
Speaker 1: lean toward more take the more demanding role. But just
Speaker 1: remind yourself and like that you're going to be getting
Speaker 1: out there and you're going to be using this experience
Speaker 1: not for them, but for yourself to get a better,
Speaker 1: better opportunity.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, part part of the question was like
Speaker 2: way I think they mentioned, wait a year. Is that
Speaker 2: is that necessary from your perspective, like you have to
Speaker 2: put in that much time to make it worthwhile.
Speaker 1: To No, I don't think so at all. But that
Speaker 1: is like a very common thing that we tell ourselves,
Speaker 1: like six months seems like a good as a year.
Speaker 1: Two years seems like a good amount of time to
Speaker 1: pay our dues before we can, you know, have that
Speaker 1: much experience. That was another thing that Ray had said
Speaker 1: in my email. He was like, because I think I
Speaker 1: had a year and nine months and he's like, you're
Speaker 1: about to have two years of experience. And I love that,
Speaker 1: like subtle rounding up, you know, like there's like a
Speaker 1: way to market that. And no, I really don't think
Speaker 1: even on job descriptions. I have personally written job descriptions
Speaker 1: for roles that I have hired, and some of it's
Speaker 1: just kind of arbitrary. Yeah, three years sounds fine, but
Speaker 1: if you're two years and four months, but you have
Speaker 1: what I need, like I'm not going to be doing
Speaker 1: the math, you know, like I think it's yeah, I
Speaker 1: think instead of saying like one year or two years,
Speaker 1: just say until I feel confident enough in this new
Speaker 1: skill set or I feel like I've learned wrinny, excuse
Speaker 1: me what I need to learn. But sometimes opportunities present
Speaker 1: themselves before you feel ready and you just take and
Speaker 1: you learn as you go. And that's okay too.
Speaker 2: I always come to mand to get my little confidence boosts.
Speaker 2: She's like, just do it, you can do this.
Speaker 1: I was kind of like looking at you while I
Speaker 1: answer that, but you didn't ask me, but that, you know,
Speaker 1: I was imagining you in a wig for being.
Speaker 2: Christa still with the connecting beer though, right as we
Speaker 2: get to.
Speaker 1: Keep that, there would be something for it to grab onto,
Speaker 1: you know, something to connect to all right, be a fam, Chris,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining me for b a qa ba Fam.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to sign up for the five Day Career
Speaker 1: Reboot Challenge. You go to Mandy money dot com slash
Speaker 1: reboot to sign up. We're kicking off soon. If you're
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast the day it airs, we're kicking
Speaker 1: off I think like five days, so check us out
Speaker 1: January fifteenth. I'm so excited. We'll see you guys there.
Speaker 1: Thank you, bi fam. Bye