WEBVTT - Ep43 - Willem Dafoe / "The Florida Project" 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.919 You're listening to playback a Variety podcast. I'm your host, 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.320 Variety Awards Editor Chris Tapley. If a little movie called 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.480 The Florida Project has been off your radar, I'd like 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.960 to put it there now. Premiering at the can Film 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.480 Festival in May, it tells the story of a precocious 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.640 six year old girl and her misadventures in and around 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.480 the Central Florida motel she and her mother call home. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.080 My guest today stars as Bobby, the kind hearted manager 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.680 of the property, and it's one of his best roles 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:46.760 in a long and illustrious career that has brought him 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.400 two Oscar nominations. But I don't want to speak for 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.280 him on that. His name is a Willem Defoe and 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.440 he's right here, so let's ask him. First of all, William, 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.480 thanks for doing the show. Would you say this is 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.640 one of your best roles? Not for me to say, 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:03.279 but certainly enjoyed it and it's a beautiful movie, and uh, 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.080 the role surprised me. Not for you to say. If 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:07.680 it's not for you to say, who's who's for me 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.840 to say. Other people, let's see it. Maybe that's if 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:11.840 it's one of your best performances, but certainly when you 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:13.920 read the role, you had to have. You know, when 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.880 I read the role, I looked at the whole project, 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.880 and I guess, uh, I was surprised what Bobby became 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.280 in the doing of it. You know, sometimes sometimes you 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.960 don't know until you do it what a role becomes. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:32.680 And those are sometimes the best experiences because you're not 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.520 reaching or controlling too much. You're letting things happen. And 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.720 Sean Sean Baker, the director, made a situation where he 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.640 invites things to happen. He was working from a small script, 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.760 but there was a degree of improvisation and also capturing 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.160 things that were happening happening in the making of it 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.040 that really connected it in a in a way that 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.120 you could never have in a screenplay. Yeah, well, then 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.760 if it's not necessarily there on the page from the beginning, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.320 your trust in him is a big part of the equation. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.400 I shouldn't imagine it is. And that's you know, that's 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.639 key relationship between actors and directors. Trust, you know, because 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.919 if you don't, if you don't give over and take 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.639 the lead, nothing's ever going to happen except for what 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.640 you know is going to happen. You're limited to what 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:32.000 you know and what you can control, and usually the 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.440 best movies come out from it, come from a place 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.760 where you can imagine them. Yeah. Sure, we'll talk about 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.519 Sean a little bit, but just in terms of this role, 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:46.200 it's it's an interesting, uh part, because you're kind of 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.840 the central node. I mean you you are sort of 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:54.639 the recognizable uh star, the recognizable face amid these unknowns 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.560 and some non actors. Even so, uh, I think that 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.480 must have been a unique thing for you. Um, yes, 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.440 well no, because I'm making enough I'm making enough films, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:10.000 let's say overseas where you know, you're working with actors 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.359 from you know, a country that doesn't have the same 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.799 kind of distribution that American films have. So I may 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.800 be the best known actor in that group. So that's 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:26.000 not unusual. But it is true that it's a situation where, um, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.440 the company is made up of people that have been 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.799 cast from the street, people have been casted from Instagram. Uh. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.880 There's some professional actors, there's some new professional actors, there's 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:42.160 some kids, and then you know there's also me and 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.040 I've been around for a little while. Um, but it's 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:50.120 always the same on some level that even even in 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.600 an industry movie, even in a studio film, sometimes you're 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.520 working with people from very different backgrounds and very different trainings. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.680 I'm always struck that it in in in the profession 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:07.920 of acting, particularly for Americans. Uh, there isn't a uniformity 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:12.320 of training or a uniform methodology. And I don't think 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.320 that's necessarily a bad thing at all. In fact, I 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:20.880 think mixing it up helps because, Um, then with each 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.760 project you really have to to find what your processes 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.800 and you also have to find out how to fit 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.320 in with everybody and make the world so it doesn't 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.200 become about you. It becomes about the thing that you're making, 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.640 and that frees you. Yeah, well let's talk about that. Uh, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.000 that environment with these other actors, this atmosphere, I mean, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.000 was it uh trying? Was it electric? Was it? Did 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.719 it take you back to your roots at all? Like 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:50.719 had a little bit, you know, it's like a family, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.320 you know, and all film sets are like that a 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.520 little bit. But these were people that this wasn't same old, 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.760 same old. There was a cynical one in the lot 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.320 because it was a new, exciting experience for them. And 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.520 then also it was conditioned by the fact that we 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.440 were shooting in a real place. So as extras, Uh, 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.280 you're having people that are really living this life, this 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.719 life that the story that we're telling is about. So 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.560 they helped root the story as well in a reality. 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.640 Um and for me playing the character, it was kind 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:31.320 of wild because we're working in functioning motel. It's still functioning. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.120 I mean sometimes we had to stop a scene because 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.400 someone was checking into the motel. Inter just take the 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.560 whole building. We took the whole building over, I mean, 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:43.679 you know for certain, but in terms of you didn't 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.600 like shut it down like people. It was still functioning. 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.720 It was still functioning, and it would be literally like, oh, 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.640 we gotta shoot that scene, so the real manager would 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.120 have to leave the room. I'd slide in there and 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.280 we'd play the scene. Did you ever just try to like, hey, 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.640 let me bone up, let me let me check these 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.440 these guys out. Well, that's what I was doing. Uh, 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:07.840 talk about that too, like preparing for the role. Did 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.440 you go down there and and hang out with guys 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.880 that have managed hotels and stuff like this. That's exactly 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.400 what they did because it was the natural thing. You know, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.360 your preparation is always different, but almost always you've gotta 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.120 do the thing that makes you feel like you own it, 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.240 you know, gives you kind of the confidence and the 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.240 authority to do the pretending and say I am this guy. 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.120 So the first thing you want to do is find 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.920 out really who these people are in the story and 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:38.640 find some models or you know, find the reality of it. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.040 So I see these guys, I I talked to some 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.960 of these guys, and you know, I check out how 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.200 they're dressed. You know, whether they got a wedding ring on, 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.120 whether they're wearing any jewelry. You know, what their sunglasses 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.520 are like, what their style is, how do they carry themselves, 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.080 how they talk about themselves, how they talk about them 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.600 their past. That all feeds into your imagination and gives 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.719 you so to make you form a picture. So you 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:04.920 take in that information and then you mix it a 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.120 little bit with you some of how you're feeling, and 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.680 the character is sort of born out of that. But 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:16.480 I think the real takeaway that was consistent with the 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.560 people that I talked to that was interesting to me 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:24.360 was these are pretty funky motels, but these guys try 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.400 really hard to make it nice and they're really they're 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.200 really committed to their work. And it's sort of a 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.720 beautiful expression of a working class guy working in a 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:43.760 challenging situation that feels a responsible responsibility for other people, 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.320 a pride in what he does, and he tries to 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.320 make things better that impulse, that's a very human impulse 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.840 to help, which often gets smothered in a lot of 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.360 other things. And as I say it, maybe it sounds 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.320 a little too sweet, but there's a tough side to 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.320 that too. Absolutely, it sounds like a skeleton key frankly 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.360 to figuring out who this guy might be. But it's 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:10.800 it was interesting for that so really surprisingly, uh, the 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.520 script was beautiful, but I couldn't tell who Bobby was 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.080 just from the script. And Bobby was really kind of 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.240 born out of these encounters and the script and improvisation 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.080 and from dealing with the other characters. Because the cool 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.240 thing is, he had to wear so many hats, you know, 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.360 he had to be a father, he had to be 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.640 a brother, he had to be a cop, he had 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.440 to be a bill collector, he had to be a plumber, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.520 he had to be a comforter, he had to be 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.400 a protector. All those things, and that kind of sounds 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.840 like a too much, Like what kind of character could 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:50.079 encompass all those but without a big dramatic scene of 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.880 some big transformation. The incredible thing was, you know he 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.480 really does all those things. Yeah, and that's kind of 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.320 stuff he probably learned on the job too. It's not 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.120 like a skills that you come to the job with. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.160 It's it's from doing the job. And and and the 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.640 other cool thing is he's he's not extraordinary. He's probably 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.680 not great pump plumber. He's probably done keep books very well. 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:16.959 And he's certainly no uh genius at you know, psychology 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.760 dealing ex exactly. Just but he's big hearted and I 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:27.440 think that's that's in the end, what what kind of 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:32.000 makes him interesting? Yeah? Yeah, talking about shooting on location there, 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:36.120 I'm always curious how landscape effects performance, and this one 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.480 in particular, because first of all, what time of year 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.000 did you shoot? It was summer, so it was sweltering. 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.720 It was you know, in the afternoon, these clouds rolling, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:53.040 you get these dramatic thunderstorms, lightning crazy. Then you know, uh, 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.520 it was hot. The physical condition shooting in the real 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:01.240 place conditions everything. It informs everything. You know, how you feel, 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.480 how your clothes hang on, you, your moods, it's a 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.000 big deal. Yeah, probably how you walk exactly as getting 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.319 to you. And just the look of the film is 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.680 so beautiful, to capturing this kind of central Florida past 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.400 dull thing. And this is where I want to talk 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.439 about Sean because if everybody hasn't seen Sean's other film, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.640 previous film Tangerine, they should shot on an iPhone. Looks beautiful. 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.719 This film looks beautiful. Very brilliant filmmaker. And just talk 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.920 to me about working with him and and how particularly 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.920 anything you might have observed with him working with the children, 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.840 because that's a difficult task as a director. He okay, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.000 first about the children. Uh, he rehearsed quite a bit 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.360 with them. And he also he's a very kind person 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:53.320 and has very gentle um, sweet mannered person and I 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.079 think he really made these kids feel comfortable. He also 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:02.120 his partner, Samantha Kwan, is an actress and she also 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.640 worked with them more or less as an acting coach. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.600 But when I say acting coach, just teaching them how 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.680 to be feel free, to pretend, and and he would 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:16.440 structure things so they felt comfortable. Uh they weren't. This 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.320 wasn't an actor's boot camp. It was really about having 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:24.600 them learning how they could play with these characters. And 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.680 he was very good at that. Uh, anytime anyone got tight, 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.040 he would find a way. Uh. It wasn't just a 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.440 question of cutting around them or tricking them. He would 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.640 adjust things in such a way that, um, they would 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.960 they would feel free and they and they wouldn't be 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.560 self conscious, they wouldn't think of themselves as actors. You know. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:53.000 He gave them fun things to do. Little girls in Brooklyn. Yeah, 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.400 she's amazing and she she is uh at six years old. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.800 She said she started doing her first work at two. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.800 I mean I think she did her first work the 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.880 second she came out of her womb, mother's womb. She's 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.440 she's a stone called performer, you know, and she's a firecracker. 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.240 She's smart, and she's she's interesting and has a good imagination. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.920 So she was very important and Sean was very lucky 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.880 to find her. He found her through fairly traditional you know, 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:28.360 through a local really talent agent because she had like representation. 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.640 And at six years old, you know, she's embarking on 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.160 a career. She's got it. She does. And Bria, who 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.200 plays her mother, was that's that's one of the Instagram castings, right, 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.239 She's was cast from Instagram. And I thought she was fantastic. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.360 The first time I saw her, I had no interaction 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.920 with her until I played a scene with her, and 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:53.199 I remember just accepting her as the character. I did 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.360 have a little question, where did they find this woman? 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.840 I thought, she's not an actress. But she's not not 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.199 an actress either, because she was performing very well. She 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:07.240 she inhabited this role. Her life isn't that life. She's 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.560 all tatted out and all that, you know, but she's 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.920 not from that world. But she had some deep understanding 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:19.040 of it, and I thought she was really exceptional. I 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.560 guess it's that authenticity that you strive for as an actor, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.440 and you just have it in spades. From yeah, you 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.640 know that the outside world, it becomes specific, the outside world, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.800 the outside references, the pointing outside of the movie goes 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.199 away because you're just watching what's going on, and and 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:43.000 it's substantial because it feels a whole h and and 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:47.280 that comes when you know you you get rid of 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.120 a certain kind of careerism, a certain kind of egotism, 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.400 a certain kind of consciousness of this being your life 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.240 or having it be about you if you can find 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.200 your ways to trick your self into submitting to a 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:07.680 story and and you know, agreeing to leave your life 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.640 and enter another one. And it does take some tricks 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.360 because we're not we're not trying to do that. We're 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.880 trying to buy all you know, by all accounts, you know, 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.840 shore up who we are. But if you can find 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.680 ways to do that, beautiful thing happens, and that's when 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.160 you start making something. And I think Sean got the 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.480 right people together. He cast beautifully and he had a 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:35.200 very um He had a very sensitive but also tough 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.640 and scrappy crew that was able to you know, work 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.200 with any funky bumps that we had because people weren't slick. Yeah, 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:49.600 that's certainly key on this and all Zabe d P. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.480 I mean he's fantastic. I mean, if you know the 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.720 two Regatdess films, he made beautiful and he's also shot 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.840 some really cool music videos. He kind of does both 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.720 ends of the spectrum. This is a beautiful movie, I mean, 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:07.920 just the sun kissed nature of it all. And just 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.760 did he was he the DP on Tangerine as well? 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.400 Do you remember? But he I name dropped the Carloss 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.880 for Goddess films because they're extraordinary silent light and also 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.320 tend to brass post tender brass looks. Cinephile will a 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.560 little bit, A little bit, I've always wondered that about you. Actually, 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.040 I mean I like movies a lot um but you know, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.280 when I get busy, sometimes I don't have enough time 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.480 to see what I want to see. But when I 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:46.360 have time, like I I watch, I prefer films. And 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.160 when I have time, I'd rather read a book, listen 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:55.680 to music or um or watch movies. Um. I just 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.480 haven't gotten into TV. And occasionally someone will say I'll 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.960 check this out. I'll watch it, and I'll say, Okay, 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.960 I get what's attractive, and I could do that, but 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.960 it's just a choice. I sure. You know. It's like 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.160 vanilla and chocolate, and they are different, they are differently. 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.920 I also want to mention you're appearing in Murder on 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.360 the Rain Express this year as well. I wanted to 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.280 mention that because that arrives in November, and it's fascinating 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.400 to me because here in Florida projects you're sounded by 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:32.760 unknown murder, you're surrounded by some of the world I 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.560 forgot about that. It's really true. You got Johnny Depp 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.040 and Judy Dench and Michelle Peife for just as who's who. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.240 It looks I haven't seen the film me. I'm looking 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.760 forward to It looks very stylized. Kenneth Browna directed it. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:46.880 What was that experience? Really good? Um? You know, it's 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.040 funny though when I think about it, but the problems 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.680 are kind of the same because they may be movie stars, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.120 but they come from very different places. In a funny way, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.560 you know, there's no uniformity the experience, which is the 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.520 good news. Um, it was great. An incredible cast. Kenneth Brandon. 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.840 I have so much respect for him, particularly after working 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:12.760 with him. He's incredible and incredible smart. Uh, he takes 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.040 care of his people. He knows obviously he's an actor. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.320 He knows how to, um help actors with what they 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.199 need to do. And then this incredible thing of the 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.400 way the film is structured. You know, you have all 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:31.560 these people around all the time, kind of as as 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.840 the world and sometimes maybe not that much to do, 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.359 not big scenes to play, and then occasionally they have 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.000 their interrogation seeing or a few other things happen. But 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.760 you're hanging around a lot and you're hanging around with Derek, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.840 Jacko B and Judy Dance and Johnny and you know, 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.639 it's and people were really cool about that, And I 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.760 think a lot had to do with their respect for 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.200 Ken and his how he treats people, and also out 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.719 of them had worked with Ken, and also uh a 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.760 lot with theater people. And the truth is there. The 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.920 people get used to you know, uh, they get a 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.760 little more used to being they're supporting other actors and 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.400 and then when it's time for them to step up 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.119 and uh, you know, go forward and do their area, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:22.680 they do it, and then they go back into the 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.359 chorus you know. Uh, so we're trained for that a 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.880 little bit more. But it was it was really good 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.359 to see actors work like that in a kind of 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:36.720 um beautiful teamwork. Well, the material kind of dixated it. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.080 It does, it does, but you know some people would 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.960 just say, Okay, yeah, I do this. You can get 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.520 this later. But you know, you could you could cut 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.600 up in pieces. But it was fun. It was fun 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.640 cool looking forward to that, and also wanted to touch 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.879 on Aquaman, not deeply, but just I'm sort of fascinated 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.639 by this because in terms of the like the modern 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.800 comic book movie landscape. You were there at the beginning 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.200 with Spider Man fifteen years ago. Can you believe that? 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.480 I can't. That's a long time ago. And now here 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.920 you are in the DC machine and so you've seen 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.720 I assume maybe a a evolution to wherever it might 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.359 be now. And I'm just curious how those two experiences 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:24.960 compare and contrast. It's a good question. Uh, I'm not sure. 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:29.120 I'm quite able to really express, you know, really much 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.239 about it right now. You know, Spider Man was at 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.640 the beginning. Uh Uh, they're very different. Because I had 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.800 to talk about the two specific movies. They both have 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.520 big challenges technically. Spider Man, there were a lot of 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.639 mechanical effects. You know, there are a lot of c 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:47.720 G I of course, but we were doing a lot 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.320 of mechanical things, a lot of on wires and things 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.880 like that. Also an Aqua Man, because it's an underwater world, 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.080 there's lots of challenges. How do you create that underwater world. 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.800 And to create that underwater world, it's going to be 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.560 much a collaboration between post stuff and stuff that we 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.720 create and mechanically give them. So we're you know, we 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.720 don't walk on the ground. We float and we fly 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.400 and we swim. You know, so that created real challenges. 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.840 UM one link and I made it before, and someone 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.040 picked it up and really ran with it because I 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.639 don't read these things usually, but I saw it in 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:30.320 the press. Um James One is and and Sam Raimi. 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.080 They're both personal filmmakers. You know, they aren't they aren't 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.560 industry uh you know, go to you know, they really 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.879 have a strong personal stamp. And James One and they 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.600 both have a good sense of play and a good 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.040 sense of detail. And they come from the handmade world, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.200 and they come from the handmade world, and they come 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.800 from the horror world. And you know, the beautiful thing 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.560 about horror movies is, you know the film language is 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.280 very rich, you know, because you can get away with 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.919 it because you're there's a fantastical quality. But also you 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.440 have the possibility to make a popular movie because it's 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:12.760 in a very accessible UM form genre. So those two 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.400 are linked a little bit. Uh the rules are slightly different, 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.880 you know. In in Aquaman, I play like Aquaman's mentor, 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:26.960 and I'm also advisor to the rival king basically. Uh 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.600 so there's some sort of political intrigue and there's a 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:34.240 little Obi Wan can all be in there too, you know. Um, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.119 so it's it's it's it's interesting. I just finished a 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.800 couple of days ago. They're still shooting for about another month. Um. 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:48.400 Uh good cast, uh, great, great art, direction and costumes. 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.600 So we'll see, we'll see. Did you have any idea 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.120 when you did Spider Man that these movies will become 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.840 such a driving force in this industry? No idea. I 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:57.920 mean even when even I mean the box office around 0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.639 that movie was a huge story at the time, but 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.760 even still it's like compared them to now and the 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:08.600 top twenty box office grossers domestically worldwide, even superhero movies. Yeah, 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.359 so yeah, you know, I think I think there are 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:16.919 stories that you know, they translate to different cultures because 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:23.040 they they're they they've got broad, broad storylines and their 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.520 their fantasy, so they aren't so culturally bound as as 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:30.359 you know, a family drama or a social drama or 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:35.239 a comedy. And their visual and their muscular uh. And 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:40.320 that's why they can play because in Indonesia, you know, 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.040 they may have a film industry, but they can't make 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.320 movies with those kinds of fleets. So if you want 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:51.360 to see that kind of movie, you know, that's where 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:56.119 it's happening. I think, um, yeah, you know, The Spider 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.440 Man was very particular because it was a very most story, 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.119 and that's kind of a team coming of age story, 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.120 so it's very different than some of these other stories. 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:10.440 And it was very character based. And actually, even though 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:15.000 there were action set paces, it was very built on character. 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:19.119 It was very hung up, hung on that Peter Parker 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:24.040 character and the relationship between his friend, that James Franco 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:29.000 character and his father. And yeah, I think I don't 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:33.359 recognize that so much in the Superhero universe because now 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:40.680 there's relationships between they're almost like corporate relationships, you know exactly. Uh, 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.520 you're always working. I was looking at your keeps Me 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.160 out of Trouble. I was looking at your credits into 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.920 Trouble just to kind of bone up on some things, 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:52.720 and I forget some of the things that you just 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:54.239 kind of show up in. It's like, oh yeah, well 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.520 in defos in this like current present danger, there you 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:00.560 are you English patient. There you are American psycho. Uh 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:04.680 you're very prolific. Uh. I think you've become frankly something 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:10.040 of a ubiquitous presence. That's good, That's good, okay, But 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:12.320 I just you know, do you love the work that much? 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.399 Is at the end of here. I do. And also 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:20.040 I think you know, actors need practice. You know, acting 0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:24.680 is acting, it's doing and uh I you know, I 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.119 in a funny way, I'm very careful about what I 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:31.320 do because and you may think this is being I'm 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.320 being coy here, but I really mean it. I'm not 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:38.679