WEBVTT - CLASSIC: What really sank the Kursk? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.120 Fellow conspiracy realist. It is the end of the calendar 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:06.880 year and we're we're going to take a break to 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.200 get with our families, our loved entities. And while we're 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:15.040 doing that, we wanted to share some of our favorite 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:21.320 classic episodes. This one is another episode about the high seas. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.880 You guys, the Curse submarine. 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.360 All the mighty Curse and how it fell. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.880 Yes, more than five hundred feet long, carrying missiles the 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.080 size of small aeroplanes. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:34.840 It's a big boy. 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.120 And here's the thing, even if you're a big boy 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:43.199 nuclear sub you're still very small in comparison to the 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.440 system that we call the ocean. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.680 So it was destroyed in. 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:53.400 One of the most catastrophic submarine disasters in history. The 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.639 entire crew was lost, and even now, decades later, as 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.960 we learned back in twenty twenty, you'll find plenty of 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.399 people who believe this accident was not an accident after all. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.319 One quick note before we dive in today, we had 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.479 a few grimlins in the proverbial machine during this recording. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.520 As a result, you may notice a little bit of 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:21.120 strangeness with the microphones in this episode, especially my own. However, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.760 we managed to keep those audio shenanigans to a minimum. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.600 We hope you enjoy the show. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.959 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:36.360 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.399 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.160 production of iHeartRadio. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.280 Hello, welcome back to the show. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.160 My name is Matt, my name is Nola. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.920 They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.440 our super producer Paul Mission Control decades. Most importantly, you 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.040 are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:11.040 they don't want you to know. We're diving deep today 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.519 in what will come to be the first terrible pun 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:19.800 of this episode, into a story that some people may 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:25.120 remember right as one of those many ephemeral headlines that 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.720 circulated in two thousand. In two thousand and one, but 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:34.839 this was brought to our attention by one of our 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:39.440 fellow listeners, a fellow conspiracy realists, who, for the sake 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.760 of comic book Nerdery, we will refer. 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:47.680 To as naymar Hey, guys, So, I just got out 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.519 of the Navy working on submarines, and as such, I've 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.359 got a couple submarine conspiracies that you may or may 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:56.160 not know about. 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.840 So the first one is the Curse, which that made 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.040 it international news. And two thousand, I think it was 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:09.040 two thousand, the Russian submarine that was spying on United 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:14.239 States and and and NATO submarines and warships doing doing 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.440 a bunch of a bunch of exercises and it blew up. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.160 So the official story is that a torpedo blew up. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.120 But I know people who have been who are on 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.200 the boat one of the submarines, and they were listening 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.720 to the Curse, and I know one of them has 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.200 told me it definitely got shot by another boat. One 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.560 said it definitely did not, and and some of the 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.360 others have have refused to talk about it. So who 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.280 knows what's going on there? That one's definitely worth looking into. 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:52.200 Nay more, this is a fantastic question, and you've actually 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.240 you've given us a lot to chew on here such 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:59.480 that we talked off air, and this may be the 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:06.600 first of multiple submarine related conspiracies, because let's talk about submarines. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.680 The weirdest thing about a submarine is that they are 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:16.480 inherently conspiratorial. They are these mysterious, at times nuclear powered 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:21.159 craft that are as we record sneaking through the ocean 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:26.159 depths across the planet. You know, a submarine is explicitly 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:31.680 designed to deceive, to occlude its presence. The location and 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.560 the capabilities of a submarine are often the stuff its 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.279 owners don't want you to know, and so it's no 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.960 surprise that submarines are themselves the subject of numerous conspiracies. 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:48.520 So today we're diving into the mystery of one submarine 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:54.479 in particular, as you requested, Naymor, what happened to the curse? 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:56.560 Here are the facts. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:03.040 So work on the kur Gan in nineteen ninety and 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.320 the sub officially launched in nineteen eighty four, and it 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:07.919 was massive. 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:09.240 It was a massive deal. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.000 But it was also physically massive, at five hundred and 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.720 eight feet nineteen thousand, four hundred tons. It was capable 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.039 of launching missiles the size of a small aircraft that 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:26.240 would absolutely decimate any targets that were unfortunate enough to 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.680 be in its path, and that. 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:30.960 Could be up to four hundred miles away. 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.200 NATO actually called it an Oscar two class, which is 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.760 a nuclear powered cruise missile submarine owned and operated by 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.279 the Russian Navy and until two thousand and seven, conversion 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.200 of the US Navy's Ohio class subs from ballistic missiles 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.880 to these types of more long range cruise missiles. The 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.760 Oscar two class submarines were the largest of their type 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:54.760 in the world. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.279 In this particular Oscar two class submarine, the Cursk was 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:03.200 a big deal, and others in this class were explicitly 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.359 designed to defeat the biggest threats that were seeing in 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:12.320 the US Navy's command, the US Aircraft Carrier Group, So 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.800 the machines that are out there floating that function as 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.080 a full military command base and airport. 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.160 Yeah, it's important to remember that until about two thousand 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:28.040 and seven, the Oscar two class was the largest type 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.440 a submarine of its type in the entire world. The 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:36.599 only reason that changed is because some Ohio class subs 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:41.880 that originally launched ballistic missiles were converted to also launch 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:46.240 cruise missiles. The Kursk had the power in theory to 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:50.159 sink an aircraft carrier with a single torpedo that was 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.679 specifically something called a Type sixty five. These torpedoes carried 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.880 a nine hundred and ninety pound warhead. This is serious stuff, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.920 and you know, to be very clear when we say 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.440 aircraft carrier in this sense. We mean exactly what Matt 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:12.240 is talking about here, the the ship that is the 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.920 the carrier where you see the jets launching and stuff. 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:20.680 Aircraft carriers don't ride solo. They roll deep that you'll 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.480 we have to remember that an aircraft carrier is one 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.239 part of what is it called an aircraft carrier battle group, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.160 and that includes other ships. It changes depending on the mission, 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:37.560 but you know, it includes things like guided missile cruisers, destroyers, 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:41.880 frigates like this. This is not the only thing on 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.000 the album. An aircraft carrier battle group is kind of 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.240 like a Posse track, But the aircraft carrier is the 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:49.520 you know, is the tupac? 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:49.960 Uh? 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.280 Really quickly, what is a frigate? 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.040 Yeah? Yeah, frigate is is an old term. I love 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:00.000 so many maritime terms. There's also like brigotine. A frigate 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:05.800 is meant to protect other warships and some and I 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.520 think they specialized. Again, I'm not a member of the Navy, 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.120 but I think they specialized in anti submarine warfare. 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.920 Pretty often every time I hear I just want to say, 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.200 frigin frigate. You know, it's just it's got the ring 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.800 to it. But please let us right the ship and 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:22.920 move forward in the episode there we. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:29.120 Go, There we Go. So, aside from being powerful in 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:36.000 offensive terms, the Curse was also very It was a 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.640 source of pride for the Russian military because its structure 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:46.559 was purportedly incredibly robust and sturdy in a way that 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.200 would worry the members of NATO. 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:57.080 Yes, the whole design of this craft made it very, very, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.400 at least on paper, difficult to sink, to breach the hull, 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:07.120 to cause major damage to this thing. It had a 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.000 double hole design, So just think about this way on 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.800 the outer the exoskeleon. Essentially the outer hole was stainless steel. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.559 It had all kinds of different metals in their nickel, chromium, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:24.319 and it had extremely good resistance to things like corrosion 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.080 and natural processes that would weaken the whole system. And 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.840 something's really interesting. These metals actually have a bit of 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.200 a weak magneticism to them. And something really interesting about 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.760 these metals nickel and chromium, you know, combined there with steel, 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.400 Both of these metals were very difficult to detect with 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.560 this thing that the United States military was using a 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:50.040 magnetic anominally detector. And because those metals have those weak 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.640 signals as it's traveling through the sea, through the ocean, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.040 it's not as easily detected because of that weak signature 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.200 of those metals contain you know. Then you get into 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.680 the inner hole and you're looking at two inch thick 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:09.839 steel's It's really cool because the structure of that outer 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.000 and inner hole essentially made this thing so strong that 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.880 you could just plow through ice out in the Arctic 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.440 somewhere if you needed to, just to break through. And 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.280 the way this structure I mean already we're kind of 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.560 describing here is just how strong this thing is. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:26.160 Right. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.800 It was compared a lot to the Titanic, at least 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.520 in some of the writing that I saw about the 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.120 ship or the boat, excuse me, the submarine, because it 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.360 was built with these compartments, separate separated compartments that if 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.840 one were to be breached and a flood was to 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.120 occur in one of those, you could turn, you could 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.160 shut that thing down, lock it off, and then be 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.320 safe in another compartment. Even if the submarine were to 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.000 sink all the way down to the ocean floor, the 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.839 crew would theoretically be able to survive in one of 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.600 the other compartments if they did. You know, seal themselves 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.160 in essentially and had enough oxygen. But that comparison to 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.200 the Titanic about being unsinkable and that structure is very interesting. 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.240 Yeah. I don't know if it's our own kind of 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.680 personal selection bias or something, but it seems like historically, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:26.120 whenever we run into these so called indestructible or impregnable structures, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:31.319 something goes terribly awry. It's like putting a target on 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.880 your invention's back. This boat was able to do something 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.440 amazing and possibly something that would terrify some of our 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.960 land lubbers in the audience. The Cursk was able to 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.520 remain submerge for up to one hundred and twenty days. 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.319 That means if you were on the crew of the Curse, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.360 it was theoretically possible that you would sink under the 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.839 surface of the briny blue and you would not see 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.480 the sun or see the sky until almost half a 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.280 year had passed. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.160 I just have to say I have no military experience, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.559 but the concept of doing that for one hundred and 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.560 twenty days straight, psychologically, I would not want to be 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.559 in there, trapped with what one hundred maybe one hundred 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.960 plus human beings inside that thing. No thank you. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.440 I can't even imagine just the logistics of that. And 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.600 just like the sanitary conditions, you know what I mean. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.720 I'm sure you know there's there's things to help keep 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.640 things from becoming from deteriorating into a state of you know, disgustingness, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.160 I guess for lack of a better word, but it 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.600 seems like it'd be pretty stinky down there with all 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.199 those men's you know, bodies. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.000 Yeah, that's what's That's one of the first things I 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.200 thought of too, Because we have we have amazing technology 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:54.160 for you know, recycling air, we have an amazing water 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:59.240 reclamation technology as a species, but for some reason, our 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.080 entire speed just hasn't figured out a way to get 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:06.000 around the funk, you know, just that locker room stank 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.120 with an a that occurs whenever you have a bunch 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.640 of a bunch of people in a small claustrophobic situation. 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.520 And you know, we're not we want to be completely fair, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.480 Like the curse was large enough and to a degree 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:27.480 opulent enough that senior officers did have their own staterooms. 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.240 It's not like everybody was three people to a bunk 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.800 or something. But still, life on a submarine is very, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.360 very challenging, and the Curse itself actually only completed a 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:47.000 single mission during its time, which sounds unusual for such 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.240 a juggernaut of the waves. During five years of service, 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:56.480 it completed one six month deployment to the Mediterranean Sea. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.280 This was in nineteen ninety nine, and they were going 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.560 to monitor US naval response to the Kosovo crisis that 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.480 was occurring. Now you might ask yourself, why spend so 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:14.640 much time, blood and treasure on the creation of a 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.400 craft like this and not really take it out, you know, 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.560 not really give it a spin around the global block 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.120 It turns out there were I don't know if it's 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.640 fair to say Russia was broke, but they had some 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.480 serious money issues going on, right. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:31.880 Yeah, it's crazy. 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.920 So they spent all this money, you know, top dollar 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:39.920 to make this impregnable, you know, b myth of a 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:46.040 seafaring war machine, and they didn't factor in a little detail, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.480 you know, the the go go juice, the stuff that 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.720 makes it go, literally, the fuel. They didn't have it 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.920 had built it into the budget. There was an absolute 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.000 funding crisis that was so serious that many members of 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.200 the Northern Fleet. 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.280 Had gone unpaid for quite a while. In the mid nineties. 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.600 Imagine that. Okay, so now let's paint the situation with 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.040 a little bit of a sharper brush to your point, Noel, 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.320 You're trapped on a submarine. You might be underwater for 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:23.600 four months. Everything stinks of funk and sweat. And the 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:31.760 other one hundred something people with you are non consensual volunteers, right. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.120 They signed up for the Navy with the expectation that 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.240 they would be paid for it, and all of a sudden, 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.440 you're not getting the checks. And that doesn't mean you 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.200 can get off the boat. You're still stuck. It's terrible, 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.680 and you know, I don't want to be glib about it, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.120 because the story of the curse takes a very violent 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.200 turn almost twenty years ago today. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.200 Yes, so on August tenth, in the year two thousand, well, 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:06.360 something strange happened. There was an unexpected disaster, at least 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:11.160 according to the official story. Right, there's an unofficial disaster 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:16.480 that occurs during an exercise out at sea. It was 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:21.240 called Summer X, And the way the story goes, there 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:27.280 was a tremendous explosion inside of the submarine itself that 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.920 ended up just tearing the thing into several pieces. Specifically 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.800 the front end, the nose of it was completely ripped 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:41.120 off of the submarine itself, and there were other pretty 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.160 large parts of this submarine that were completely separated and 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.560 blown apart and shoved into one another. And again, this 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.440 is a submarine. You have to remember, it is operating 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.160 underneath the surface of the water. So unless you are 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.480 specifically tracking this thing with some kind of sophisticated, high 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.280 powered or some other technology, you don't know where it is. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.720 If you're on the surface, let's say, even if you're 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.320 in a frigate or another ship or something that's monitoring 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.919 the situation, you don't know exactly where they are. But 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.520 there were crews on surrounding ships or nearby ships, and 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.000 the only way that they knew something had gone wrong 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.560 was that they felt the impact or essentially the boom 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:29.320 the implosion that occurred below, and you could feel it 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.720 essentially being on another craft. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:37.280 This disaster occurred in an area known as the Barrence Scene. 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.840 The Barren See is a part of the Arctic Ocean. 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.960 It's off the northern coast of Norway and Russia, and 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:52.399 this geography is important because that second, much larger explosion 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.600 created an impact that could be felt as far away 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:01.400 as Alaska. Later research by seismologists would conclude that this 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.760 was the force was equivalent to that of an earthquake, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.600 measuring four point two on the Richter scale, which means 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:15.920 that which of course would lead you to rightly assume 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.879 that munitions were part of the explosion, you know what 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.639 I mean, not just a fire or something. 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.480 Yes, and it follows that there were no survivors. All 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.520 one hundred and eighteen members of the crew of the 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.199 Kursk perished in the disaster. And you know, this was 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.920 something that Vladimir Putin, who was recently elected at the time. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.040 It's hard to imagine a time when Vladimir Putin wasn't 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.119 the head of this part of the world, but there 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.280 certainly was, and he had recently been elected and staked 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.160 a lot of his reputation on pushing for this project. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.680 So this was a big blow to him personally. And 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.920 it wasn't a good look either that he happened to 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.200 be on vacation at the time, and this did not 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.639 play well with relatives of the crew members. I watched 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.120 a documentary about this, and there there were a lot 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.760 of I guess hearings where relatives of the crew members 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.920 were just shrieking in Russian and just at the top 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.720 of their lungs, cursing Putin and this regime and saying, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.439 how could you let these men live in a tiny 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.840 box for you know, however long we know it was. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.000 It was quite a long time with no pay. 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.760 We know that happened too, and then just you know, 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.359 let them die like dogs, basically, you know, so a 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.600 lot of emotion. They were absolutely aghast and enraged at 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.000 the way this disaster was handled. They argued that the 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:47.080 official statements were absolute disinformation, absolute bs. Was there a 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.680 cover up? We'll talk about that after a quick word 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:50.360 from our sponsor. 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:02.080 Let's walk through the immediate after math of this disaster. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.320 And you know, it's tempting to say that, of course, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.840 anyone will react with intense grief and emotion when they 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.800 lose a loved one, but it's crucial for us to 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.440 emphasize that the claims of the relatives of these crew 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.560 members were not just made up out of whole cloth. 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:28.480 They didn't just wake up for no reason and decide 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:33.560 to accuse the government of deceiving them. Later research found 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:39.359 that there were intense problems with the investigation the Russian Navy, 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:44.000 according to official sources, initially did not realize an accident 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:49.320 had occurred. More than six hours passed before an initial 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.280 search even began. And to your point about those compartments, Matt, 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.879 does that mean, like you can look out layouts of 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.679 these nine compartments in the curse. Does that mean that 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.960 some of the one hundred and eighteen people aboard were 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.320 able to escape whatever that initial blast was and move 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.520 to a safer compartment. Would six hours have saved them? 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:11.080 You know? 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:16.080 Eleven hours later the Navy declared an emergency. Finally, later 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:21.120 research showed that all crew members had died by that point. Normally, 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.160 there's a you know, cash of safety gear on these 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:28.879 types of subs rescue buoys which automatically deploy like an 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.080 escape pod in a spaceship or something, but that did 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.440 not occur. The booy of the Curse had been disabled. 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:41.280 It took the Navy sixteen hours to find the wreckage 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.879 and to start to kind of like figure out what 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.240 had happened. Rumors were circulating the sub may have collided 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.159 with a mine, which we know exists. We know there's like, 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.200 you know, still potentially isn't there one in Savannah Bend, 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:54.920 and we talk about that in Savannah, Georgia. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.439 There's a mine somewhere out there in the harbor. 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.000 It's a nuclear nuclear way. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.600 Oh even worse. But still we have heard tell of 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.959 still active minds out there, you know, from war and 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.919 this was a again a rumor, but that it had 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:15.080 been an undeployed mine that it collided with inadvertently. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.399 Yeah, from way back in World War Two. There are 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:20.040 you know, there are all kinds of rumors that were 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:25.360 circulating around at the time. It is it makes total sense, right, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.439 how on earth could this have happened? We were doing 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:32.399 some kind of official exercise. Nothing could have should have 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:37.240 gone wrong. Maybe there was a friendly fire situation, an 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.280 accidental you know, deployment of a torpedo that ended up 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:45.120 hitting a friendly target in this way, right if you're 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.080 if you're imagining yourself as as the Russian military or 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.800 some of the the commanders there. And the thing is, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:55.880 there's all kinds of other stuff that people have said 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.000 over the years about what may have happened. But now 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:02.479 almost twenty years, almost twenty years to the day later, 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:08.159 the question still remains what actually happened inside that submarine 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:12.439 and to that submarine on that day, August tenth, two thousand. 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:18.760 Here's where it gets crazy. The official explanation, even at 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:24.879 first was suspicious. There were problems that cropped up with 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:29.199 it immediately. The primary issue was the high amount of 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:34.320 secrecy involved. The Russian government refused all international offers of assistance, 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:39.560 which can you know, if you're suspicious, it can function 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:44.120 as tacit confirmation that they had perhaps some secret technology 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:48.000 on there or something that they were not comfortable with 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:53.680 other nations discovering. These things went back and forth. So 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:57.119 we're going to jump around in time just a little 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:03.800 bit right now. The official explanation is that the authorities 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:07.080 say the crew of the Curse was preparing to load 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:11.639 a dummy torpedo, a practice torpedo, right, because these are 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:15.879 naval exercises. That doesn't mean it's actual war, so they 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:20.679 don't want to shoot genuine torpedoes. And this torpedo that 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.160 they were loading, which was a sixty five seventy six 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:30.840 kit torpedo, had two problems. First, it contained a liquid 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:34.080 called high test peroxide. This is not the kind of 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:36.480 stuff that you put in your hair when you're a 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.480 teenager or something. Second problem, they claimed there was a 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:44.919 manufacturing defect, and that there was a faulty weld in 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:47.800 the casing of the sub of the torpedo. And so 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:54.880 when they were loading this on, this high test peroxide 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:59.520 or HTP leaked from this faulty weld, and it caused 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:04.080 the ed who's fuel to explode. That fuel is kerosene, right, 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:07.000 and kerosene is a friend of explosions. 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:10.119 And remember, by the way, this is a sixty five 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:14.119 type weapon. That's the aircraft carrier killer that we were 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:18.639 talking about, A very large weapon or a very large 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:23.600 piece of ammunition, I don't what you call it around 0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:29.439 if you will. So, so when the explosion occurred, mixed 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.480 with the things we're talking about there, the kerosene and 0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:37.680 the HTP, it blew off the inner and outer doors 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:42.880 to the torpedo, so the things that are really helping 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:45.280 in a lot of ways to keep the water out, 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:48.120 which is you know, generally a good thing when you're 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:53.240 inside a metal container inside the ocean. Then it started 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:57.359 a fire. It destroyed the bulkhead, the separator essentially between 0:25:57.400 --> 0:25:59.560 the first and second compartments, like the ones we were 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:03.879 talking about there where the control room, by the way, 0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:08.159 was in one of those So when that bulkhead was 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:11.320 destroyed between the first and second compartments and that fire's going, 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.840 you actually had probably at least in all likelihood most 0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:18.520 if not all of the crew within the control room 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:22.480 that people running the boat, running the sub they probably 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:26.399