Speaker 1: Felsman. This week, I did something this episode a little
Speaker 1: differently to talk about a topic that many people face,
Speaker 1: disordered eating. I have on two guests this week who
Speaker 1: have their own personal experience with the topic and how
Speaker 1: they use their stories to now help others who are
Speaker 1: struggling with the same thing. Even more importantly, they are
Speaker 1: from two different parts of the world, so they have
Speaker 1: different experiences but also relate in many ways. Here are
Speaker 1: interviews with Eliza and Tory Payton on disordered eating. Another
Speaker 1: episode inspired this episode. I was talking with Cara about
Speaker 1: Integrative Health and her disordered eating experience and how that
Speaker 1: influenced her career. But I wanted to dedicate an entire
Speaker 1: episode to this particular topic, disordered eating. So I have
Speaker 1: on Eliza, who is an eating disorder recovery coach and
Speaker 1: ten years recovered in her own life. Hi Eliza, how
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: Hi?
Speaker 3: Am good. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on, and we're going to dive
Speaker 1: right into this really intense topic and I just appreciate
Speaker 1: your vulnerability up front. So talk to me about your
Speaker 1: disordered eating story, where this all started and began for you.
Speaker 1: Tell me what happened there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I had Pullman Orthrix young. But also I
Speaker 3: want to maybe started a little bit further because people
Speaker 3: don't realize like how it actually like. You don't develop
Speaker 3: like a you know, food blown eating a salta overnight
Speaker 3: at least like for me, developed actually for years and years.
Speaker 3: For example, when I was a teenager, I would say
Speaker 3: maybe a fuele of years old or something. But your
Speaker 3: body starts to develop. I remember I started to feel
Speaker 3: like my hips are whiter, and I was one of
Speaker 3: the first one in my class, like from the girls
Speaker 3: who developed foods. And I just felt like my body
Speaker 3: was changing and I felt like that this is why
Speaker 3: I was so vulnerable too. I want to like maybe
Speaker 3: control it or diet. So this is when I started
Speaker 3: to die. First diet I remember I did, was I
Speaker 3: stopped eating after six pm. And nowadays I think this
Speaker 3: is called intermitted fasting. But basically I stopped eating after
Speaker 3: six pm. I allowed myself to eat whatever I wanted
Speaker 3: throughout the day, but of course since I restricted in
Speaker 3: the evening, I lost weight, and of course, like for
Speaker 3: a period of time, I felt good and like it
Speaker 3: was working and I could keep it up for like
Speaker 3: half a year, but then There was like one particular
Speaker 3: night when I was like out with my friends and
Speaker 3: I was like so hungry, but I was like, no,
Speaker 3: I can't eat. And it was like finally when I
Speaker 3: gave in. And I think like this was the first
Speaker 3: time I had my proper like a binge eating episode,
Speaker 3: and I was like so taken aback, Like what happened?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I can't do this. I would gain
Speaker 3: all the weight back and everything, but yeah, I couldn't
Speaker 3: keep up with it. I couldn't stop myself from eating
Speaker 3: at the night and everything and all the way it
Speaker 3: came back. And then my mom she never commented on
Speaker 3: my body or pushed me to diet, but she did
Speaker 3: some diets herself, and one time we went to a
Speaker 3: little vocation and she was following this. I guess it
Speaker 3: was like an Adkins type of diet, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: can I try it as well? Can we do it
Speaker 3: both of us? And I guess like my mom didn't
Speaker 3: know anything about diets or how it's like powerful and
Speaker 3: especially to a teenager even for adult actually, but yeah,
Speaker 3: like again lost weight. I remember one time I almost
Speaker 3: painted and my mom was like, oh my god, what's happening?
Speaker 3: You need to eat, and she was a little bit worried.
Speaker 3: But basically like from that period of time, I guess
Speaker 3: my disordered eating started and I developed episodes of binge eating, overeating.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like bullieve me, I yet done something and
Speaker 3: I called myself more like an emotion eater or I
Speaker 3: thought I'm just addicted to the yummy foods or something.
Speaker 3: But now I know that it wasn't like emotion eating
Speaker 3: or food addiction. You can develop all of those symptoms
Speaker 3: because you're restricting food. So anyway, then fast forward to
Speaker 3: when I was about like twenty years old, I went
Speaker 3: through this like heartbreak right like I was so in
Speaker 3: love and we were together for a few years, but
Speaker 3: we broke up. And I would say that I fell
Speaker 3: into some kind of depression or something and I abused
Speaker 3: like alcohol and I was like smoking back then, and
Speaker 3: I just felt like completely like in a black hole
Speaker 3: and I had like really like dark thoughts and everything.
Speaker 3: And I guess like it was huge stress what I
Speaker 3: went through. And now looking back, I know this is
Speaker 3: why I started to develop some health symptoms, Like because
Speaker 3: of stress, my hair was falling out, I developed like
Speaker 3: acne on my face. I had digestion issues. But back then,
Speaker 3: of course, like I started to google, like how can
Speaker 3: I fix myself? I didn't want to like them drugs
Speaker 3: for the skin, right because for example, like things like aquitain,
Speaker 3: like it can be like there can be so many
Speaker 3: bad symptoms from taking drugs. So I'm like, I don't
Speaker 3: want to take drugs. I want to heal myself from
Speaker 3: the inside out. Right. I had a good goal. I
Speaker 3: didn't want to like, oh, I just want to donate
Speaker 3: to be thin or whatever. I just thought, I want
Speaker 3: to feel myself. I want to feel good and I
Speaker 3: don't want to have those symptoms. But this is when I, yeah, googled.
Speaker 3: I found the clean eating, high carb, low fat, vegan eating,
Speaker 3: raw foodism, then fruitarianism, all those things, and yeah, I
Speaker 3: would just generally say, like I I had to eat
Speaker 3: like very clean. Of course I didn't want to. I
Speaker 3: don't know this fruitarianism overnight. But maybe first I cut
Speaker 3: out sugar. Then I cut out airy because like normally
Speaker 3: you hear, oh, those are that are bad for your
Speaker 3: skin and everything, so basic, I started took out cut
Speaker 3: out more and more foods. I started to do those
Speaker 3: weeks of I'm just going to eat clean the whole week,
Speaker 3: but since I was already like a binge eater or overeater,
Speaker 3: then I would always end my week with a binge,
Speaker 3: basically going to a shop and buying all the foods
Speaker 3: that I restricted, all the processed foods, junk food like,
Speaker 3: everything that was like out of limits. Those are the
Speaker 3: foods that I wanted and prayed and die binge on them.
Speaker 3: And after one particular binge session, I just ate so
Speaker 3: much that I was physically so uncomfortable, so painfully full,
Speaker 3: that I went through toilette and I vomited. And I
Speaker 3: was at the first moment, I was already aware, Oh
Speaker 3: my god, like this is what polymics do. This is
Speaker 3: no like, I'm not developing bulimia. This is just one
Speaker 3: time I was just overly full. I'm just like helping
Speaker 3: my body. I just ate too much, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But the truth is because I didn't stop this mindset
Speaker 3: and I didn't blame the eating, the clean eating. I
Speaker 3: thought it is healthy, there's nothing wrong with that. I
Speaker 3: didn't see that how it's restrictive. Then the bing is
Speaker 3: continued and omitting goes so continued. So yeah, this is
Speaker 3: how it all begins. Basically.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that stands out the most for
Speaker 1: me is hearing you talk about just these wide variety
Speaker 1: of experiences. I think a lot of people when they
Speaker 1: hear disordered eating, they automatically think, Oh, this person is
Speaker 1: eating and then throwing up. That's it. There's no one between,
Speaker 1: there's no other things happening, And that was so apparent
Speaker 1: for me. And your beginning story is just these different
Speaker 1: fluctuations of things that we're seeing in culture. You're seeing
Speaker 1: and experiencing things that other people are different diets, body
Speaker 1: image issues, you're clean eating and wanting to go on
Speaker 1: a new path. None of it is inherently bad, but
Speaker 1: for someone who is constantly seeing things in a certain light,
Speaker 1: it's gonna reflect. And that's what I'm saying happened in
Speaker 1: your journey. So talking about that moment where you start realizing, oh,
Speaker 1: this is what this is. When did that happen? Oh
Speaker 1: I am this is a disorder eating pattern? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess from the point I said that the
Speaker 3: first time I vomited and then the pattern just continued.
Speaker 3: But I think like all the time I was just
Speaker 3: telling myself or lying to myself, like you know, like
Speaker 3: I don't want to be thin necessary. I just want
Speaker 3: healthy for my health, like for my skin, for my health,
Speaker 3: for my digestion and everything. And I genuinely thought that
Speaker 3: certain foods are causing the digestion issues, for example gluten
Speaker 3: and dairy, and because the thing with those foods are
Speaker 3: if you actually start to restrict those foods and don't
Speaker 3: eat them for a while, then your stomach can stop
Speaker 3: producing the necessary enzymes to eat to digestion them properly.
Speaker 3: And this is why it can seem that, oh, every
Speaker 3: time I now eat them a little bit, I have symptoms.
Speaker 3: I thought that I'm doing the good thing. And that's
Speaker 3: the thing with clean eating, especially like for me, was
Speaker 3: that I knew that it wasn't normal, like the symptoms,
Speaker 3: but I just didn't see what can I do differently
Speaker 3: or I can't eat all the foods or it's like
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to do it for my health. So
Speaker 3: this is where you get in trapped. And also the
Speaker 3: more you're restrict, the more you start to feel hear
Speaker 3: all kinds of foods and have a guilt and plus
Speaker 3: the symptoms and everything, so it's like a big trap.
Speaker 3: You push yourself into a corner kind.
Speaker 1: When you were going through all of this. I know
Speaker 1: you mentioned your mom and how she was doing diets
Speaker 1: and you wanted to come on, But was there anyone
Speaker 1: around you who was picking up on you doing this?
Speaker 1: Or was you really good at hiding what was happening?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like really good at hiding. It's not only about
Speaker 3: that you lose a bunch of weight or you restrict
Speaker 3: your calories like heavily or something, but it can also
Speaker 3: manifest that's like clean eating or yeah, just avoiding some foods,
Speaker 3: or or you can't eat out in a restaurant or
Speaker 3: randomly 're like no, I can't go because they don't
Speaker 3: serve this and that. And of course, like people do
Speaker 3: have like real intolerances and everything, but this is not
Speaker 3: like what I'm talking about them, just talking about how
Speaker 3: those symptoms people at least, like the highest culture is
Speaker 3: so normalized that often those behaviors are praised, like people
Speaker 3: lose weight or try to eat healthy. It's, oh my god,
Speaker 3: like you are so inspirational, like how do you do it?
Speaker 3: Even when I remember, like I was young and I
Speaker 3: stopped eating after six pm, like like my mom didn't
Speaker 3: mean anything bad, but even she was like oh, you
Speaker 3: are so good at this or good job, and now
Speaker 3: I'm like what I know as a coach, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like she wasn't the bad mom, but
Speaker 3: I think, like it's so normalized people don't see it
Speaker 3: as a problem. But of course, like they're perching or
Speaker 3: the woman thing. This is what I could mass like.
Speaker 3: I would only do it when I was like completely alone,
Speaker 3: and since yeah, I didn't look like I have an
Speaker 3: eating salter, then it was pretty easy to hide it.
Speaker 1: What was the turning moment when you realized, Okay, I
Speaker 1: can't do this anymore and I need to get help
Speaker 1: or I need to change my patterns. Because I hear
Speaker 1: you mentioning a lot of this, and because you were
Speaker 1: doing a lot of stuff alone, I imagine that turning
Speaker 1: point had to be significant for you to finally take
Speaker 1: that step to turn the corner.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I feel like for me, I always wanted
Speaker 3: to recover and get better, but I searched for the
Speaker 3: answers from the right wrong places. For example, them high carb,
Speaker 3: low fat vegan that I was following promote no color restriction.
Speaker 3: They say, if you want to be successful at this
Speaker 3: or be vegan, you have to eat enough calories, like
Speaker 3: to two five hundred plus calories. If you eat less,
Speaker 3: like you are restricting, so of course you're going to
Speaker 3: be in and everything. So I genuinely thought that this
Speaker 3: is not restrictive and it's cure for my bingches. But
Speaker 3: I just thought, like the other foods are just addictive
Speaker 3: and I just have to I don't know, change my
Speaker 3: taste pots. And they talk about all those things like yeah, totally,
Speaker 3: like your taste pots are going to change, and so
Speaker 3: I looked for answers from the wrong places, but I
Speaker 3: had like always this, I don't want to keep on binging.
Speaker 3: I don't want to keep having bolima, like I don't
Speaker 3: understand why it happens. And I guess one year I
Speaker 3: was searching for answers or googling something about recovery or bolima,
Speaker 3: and I stumbled upon this like one book and she
Speaker 3: talked about how she recovered I think like she had
Speaker 3: Bullyman on her excl fourteen years or something, and she
Speaker 3: talked about how she recovered from it fully by into
Speaker 3: it e beating, and I was like, okay, great, and
Speaker 3: so much of her book like makes and made sense
Speaker 3: to me and everything, But in the end of the book,
Speaker 3: like she wrote out what she ate for I guess,
Speaker 3: like or something, and there was like all kinds of
Speaker 3: different foods and normal foods and cooked foods, but also
Speaker 3: like she went out to eat with her friends like
Speaker 3: hamburgers and French fries. And I was like, okay, like
Speaker 3: I can't do it because this is on a health field,
Speaker 3: like she's so lost, and like I thought, like she's
Speaker 3: like poor her, she doesn't know what she's doing, Like
Speaker 3: I was so brainwashed in my area. So I was like, no,
Speaker 3: I can't do it. And then I continued to struggle
Speaker 3: for another year, and then another year went past, and
Speaker 3: I guess already like also searching and googling, and I
Speaker 3: downloaded and ebook again and everything, and I read it
Speaker 3: and I'm like I've already read this book and it
Speaker 3: was the same book, like I bought it again. But
Speaker 3: then reading the book and the event like what she
Speaker 3: had eaten that week, like I finally it clicked for me,
Speaker 3: and it was like yeah, like all this year, I
Speaker 3: wasn't very restricting anymore, but I was heavily restricting on
Speaker 3: foods that I could eat. And I was like so
Speaker 3: desperate and so tired that point, and I knew what
Speaker 3: I'm doing is not working. I was like one hundred
Speaker 3: percent convinced that it's not working. So I guess like
Speaker 3: I was finally open minded enough. Two, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: try it. Like at this point, I have nothing else
Speaker 3: to lose, and if I need to quit, throw food whatever.
Speaker 3: Like in Estonia, like I had such a community and
Speaker 3: I had business around it and everything. It wasn't like
Speaker 3: an easy thing to change. But I was like, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna change my whole life. I'm going to change my friends,
Speaker 3: I'm going to change my work, you know what I
Speaker 3: do everything if I can just recover, So I was
Speaker 3: willing to, like, yeah, just let go all restrictions. So
Speaker 3: my recovery started when I finally decided that I have
Speaker 3: to let go all restrictions, not just color restriction but
Speaker 3: also food restriction and eat the hamburgers and French spies
Speaker 3: and all the foods I thought are like so unhealthy.
Speaker 3: And yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Hearing you say that where you're like, I have to
Speaker 1: just give up and let go of everything to start
Speaker 1: over is a hard decision to make you're sitting here,
Speaker 1: especially the experience you had for so long where you
Speaker 1: thought you were doing the right thing. It's so important
Speaker 1: hearing you say I thought I was doing the right thing.
Speaker 1: I was clean eating, I was doing everything that people
Speaker 1: were telling me to do, because it is it's a
Speaker 1: guys in a way if you are doing it in
Speaker 1: a way that is hurting your body instead of helping
Speaker 1: your body. And restricting foods is a huge part of
Speaker 1: that whole movement intuitive eating. Everything you mentioned there is
Speaker 1: just so important. So thank you for sharing that, because
Speaker 1: I also know that turning point had to be difficult,
Speaker 1: but I applaud your ability to let go and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have to start over and I need to do
Speaker 1: this for myself. And you saw that you made that
Speaker 1: turning point, which is why you're a coach now to
Speaker 1: help people do the same thing. What are some things
Speaker 1: you wish you had known going through this experience originally
Speaker 1: if you could someone right now that's in your shoes
Speaker 1: ten plus years ago, what's something you wish you could
Speaker 1: have had the information?
Speaker 3: Yeah, since my eating Solder was so tied to the
Speaker 3: clean eating and being healthy and everything. Of course, at
Speaker 3: first when I started, I didn't have this connection. But
Speaker 3: then like after years of trying to clean, eat clean
Speaker 3: and be healthy and everything. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: like realizing like I have an eating solder. I wish
Speaker 3: people would see that as long as you have an
Speaker 3: eating sold then no clean eating is going to make
Speaker 3: you healthy. Like eating solder is not a not healthy.
Speaker 3: It's like those foods whatever you deem it's unhealthy, are
Speaker 3: not going to hurt you as much as the eating
Speaker 3: solder will hurt you. So it's like, yeah, getting rid
Speaker 3: of the eating sold is the top priority. And also
Speaker 3: I don't know, like we can get into it about everything,
Speaker 3: but it's not that it's not like I eat now
Speaker 3: hamburgers and French pries every day and this is what
Speaker 3: people think. Oh if I just let go and I
Speaker 3: eat whatever I want. And of course, if you're so deprived,
Speaker 3: there's gonna be a recovery phase when you have things
Speaker 3: like extreme hunger, extreme cravings. It's so normal to go
Speaker 3: through it where you gravitas towards the exact foods you craved.
Speaker 3: But as long as you stop restricting compensating of course,
Speaker 3: like perching, I don't know, using whatever methods you used
Speaker 3: to compensate, then over time, like your cravings and hungred
Speaker 3: cues and everything will go back to balance. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it was one of my biggest fears because every time
Speaker 3: I previously allowed myself to have those foods, I finished.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, how can that be the answer. But
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that you have to stop restricting along
Speaker 3: with that, all the compensating and over exercising, perching like whatever.
Speaker 3: So then over time the cravings can go back to normal.
Speaker 3: And now like, I'm into ITV and I eat. I'm
Speaker 3: like a normal eater. I even sometimes don't like the
Speaker 3: term intoity eating because it seems, oh, what are the steps,
Speaker 3: Like it's just normal eating, Like it's just normal eating.
Speaker 3: And and I don't binge on chunk food anymore. I
Speaker 3: eat quite a good like variety. Also, I love like
Speaker 3: good like home cooked meals and like fruit sweatgies. I
Speaker 3: can eat out. I have no longer, no stress, no
Speaker 3: guilt over food or anything. So yeah, just people maybe
Speaker 3: when they hear when they are struggling and in this
Speaker 3: clean eating mindset, they have so many fears like, oh,
Speaker 3: but then I would just eat chunk forever. But actually
Speaker 3: this is not the case. Actually the opposite is true.
Speaker 3: Your hunger can go back to normal.
Speaker 1: It sounds like there's just so many different extremes, and
Speaker 1: as long as you're going to those extremes, it's not
Speaker 1: good for you. Whether it's the extreme side of being
Speaker 1: so healthy and such either or the extreme of over eating,
Speaker 1: of binging, of there's a balance, just as there is
Speaker 1: with everything in life. There's a balance with food, and
Speaker 1: you should be able to have fun with your friends
Speaker 1: while also understanding that there are good foods that are
Speaker 1: gonna fuel your body. There's also foods out there that
Speaker 1: are gonna make you feel a little bit more sluggish,
Speaker 1: and they might have things in them that your body
Speaker 1: isn't used to breaking down. But that balance is hard
Speaker 1: to understand because we've been taught so many different things.
Speaker 1: So the mind plays a lot of tricks as you're
Speaker 1: going through all of this this is good and that's bad,
Speaker 1: when in reality, you just need to have things that
Speaker 1: make your body feel good. That's the bottom line. It's
Speaker 1: so important hearing you say the different variations of that again,
Speaker 1: because I think we've been taught to believe disordered eating
Speaker 1: is very associated with anorexia or bolimia, and that's it.
Speaker 1: There's so much in between that brings those out. Now,
Speaker 1: being in this post side of recovery and you're ten
Speaker 1: years outside of your eating disorder, what's it been like
Speaker 1: for you? Is there still triggers? Is it a battle
Speaker 1: every day that you're fighting.
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't say there are still triggers in terms
Speaker 3: of the eating sold But like I said before, like
Speaker 3: I learned my lesson that so many health symptoms can
Speaker 3: actually start with stress, and I wish like I would
Speaker 3: have known it before that, like I don't need to
Speaker 3: start clean eating or cutting out foods, but firstly, at
Speaker 3: least like for me, like for my body, stress is
Speaker 3: a big trigger for me to have symptoms. For example,
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen or seventeen or something, when I was
Speaker 3: already recovered for I don't know like how many years,
Speaker 3: maybe five years or so, I also went through stress
Speaker 3: and it was more like work stress and yeah, and
Speaker 3: I also started to develop the same symptoms like my
Speaker 3: hair was falling out, acne again, digestion issues. But now
Speaker 3: I was like, no, I won't start to restrict foods,
Speaker 3: even though I was afraid to go to doctor to
Speaker 3: ask about my digestion because I was afraid they will
Speaker 3: tell me like yeah, I cut out theairy cut out
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and I'm like, I can't cut out foods,
Speaker 3: so I'm just gonna focus on managing my stress. And yeah,
Speaker 3: and it worked, and over time, all the symptoms went away.
Speaker 3: I didn't change anything in my dad. The an acne
Speaker 3: went away, the hair loss, the digestion issues issue is
Speaker 3: a little bit different story because I continue to have
Speaker 3: the symptoms for three years because I I was so
Speaker 3: afraid to go to doctor because I thought maybe they
Speaker 3: would say restrict something. But luckily I went to doctor
Speaker 3: and they discovered I had H Pylori bacteria. And I guess,
Speaker 3: like from my research, I think stress can also trigger it,
Speaker 3: like so many people have it already in their god,
Speaker 3: but due to stress, it can just how I say multiplier,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't want to use any incorrect terms.
Speaker 3: And I did one week of antibiotic antibiotics and the
Speaker 3: stomach issues went away and I didn't have to start restricting.
Speaker 3: And so what I just want to say is that
Speaker 3: I finally learned the lesson that at least like for me,
Speaker 3: like stress is a big trigger for health symptoms and
Speaker 3: I don't need to start restricting foods, but just start
Speaker 3: to focus on reducing stress and managing my stress levels
Speaker 3: and like sleep more and do meditation, relaxation, more time
Speaker 3: for myself. They like gate stuff to other people, ask
Speaker 3: more help, And yeah, I didn't went back to my
Speaker 3: eating folder because I learned my lesson and I know
Speaker 3: like from my other clients, like stress is such a
Speaker 3: trigger for them as well, and sometimes they start to
Speaker 3: restrict again and it's just yeah, I guess like a
Speaker 3: big learning lesson is the link to the stress.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't ever realized how much stress impacts our lives,
Speaker 1: and we have stress every single day with working in
Speaker 1: the roles we play in people's lives. Like, stress is
Speaker 1: a major factor in our lives, and I don't think
Speaker 1: we ever give it enough credit for how it can
Speaker 1: treat our bodies and the pressure it puts on us.
Speaker 1: So that's a really important one and one that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have thought of to be like the underlying here's
Speaker 1: the real key issue that you need to work through.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love to end our episodes on whether it's a
Speaker 1: piece of advice or perspective that you have for people
Speaker 1: who are on this journey they're going through it, Maybe
Speaker 1: they're towards the end, maybe they're right in the middle.
Speaker 1: What's something that you would love them to know from you?
Speaker 3: Like one of the things I mentioned already that really
Speaker 3: helped me to even start my recovery, Like I had
Speaker 3: so many objections and hesitations and everything, but was the
Speaker 3: fact that finally was like open minded to okay, like
Speaker 3: this is clearly not working what I'm doing. And then
Speaker 3: I was finding like open minded to hear different things,
Speaker 3: even things that contradicted to my previous beliefs about like
Speaker 3: healthy eating and everything. For example, like we talk about
Speaker 3: like eating chunk foods, like how can this be helping
Speaker 3: you recover? Like like I understand total like it doesn't
Speaker 3: make sense, but of course, like we have such a
Speaker 3: limited period of time here to talk about it, but
Speaker 3: if it would take time to maybe see my work
Speaker 3: or read my book or something, then you would see
Speaker 3: like how it makes total sense. And also thinks about
Speaker 3: like going through extreme hunger in recovery, like how this
Speaker 3: is not you binging, this is just aftermath after the restriction,
Speaker 3: and how your body is trying to catch up, and
Speaker 3: also things like if you're awaken and I had such
Speaker 3: a belief about coming from the DAD mentality and everything
Speaker 3: that I need to be responsible for my weight and
Speaker 3: if I just let go of the control, my weight
Speaker 3: will just spiral out of control. But actually, like what
Speaker 3: I also talk about a lot as well, is like
Speaker 3: your body actually has a set point weight that is
Speaker 3: mostly determined by genetics, like regulated by your like normal hunger, fuse,
Speaker 3: and metabolism, which is the goal of full recovery. Right,
Speaker 3: get your body functioning normally again, So then actually your
Speaker 3: body actually wants to start maintaining your set point effortlessly.
Speaker 3: You just eat normally like naturally, you're going to be
Speaker 3: able to then eat one hungry, stop and full, and
Speaker 3: there's nothing like I need to manage on a data
Speaker 3: basis on my weight, and I didn't know that. Actually
Speaker 3: my body wants to stay in home staces, like it
Speaker 3: doesn't want to just fluctuate with weight, and if it does,
Speaker 3: then there's something going on either stress or maybe food
Speaker 3: restriction that causes you to binge it or whatever. So yeah,
Speaker 3: just to be more open minded to the ideas of
Speaker 3: letting go all restrictions because in all restrictive eatings alters,
Speaker 3: like this is the first step to start with. You
Speaker 3: cannot cover from eating salter while still restricting like you cannot. Yes,
Speaker 3: it's like a mental issue, but it's also very busic
Speaker 3: and restriction fuels those symptoms.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing those things. You had said one
Speaker 1: more thing that I want to go into, and it
Speaker 1: was it reminded me of this question that I had
Speaker 1: for you. Where I'd love to know on this side
Speaker 1: of things, I'm someone who luckily hasn't had the experience
Speaker 1: with disordered eating. What is something I can do to
Speaker 1: support my friends or people that I know that go
Speaker 1: through these things? Like I never want to do or
Speaker 1: say the wrong things. I want to make sure that
Speaker 1: I'm a safe space for all of that. What is
Speaker 1: someone on the opposite side of this who can make
Speaker 1: sure they're doing the right things? What is something we
Speaker 1: can do better?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it also depends on whether or not,
Speaker 3: like they are open about them issues they're going through.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's like a good idea to
Speaker 3: start to talk about it if they don't bring it
Speaker 3: up or something, because it can be like a very
Speaker 3: sensitive topic. But yeah, and sometimes like just being there
Speaker 3: for them and maybe be vulnerable yourself about whatever else
Speaker 3: you're going through. So maybe it will sign them also
Speaker 3: to open up. But the boast often I think like
Speaker 3: people need rather somebody to just listen and to understand,
Speaker 3: of course, not to kind of say, yeah, you're doing
Speaker 3: the right thing or something, but just listen and understand
Speaker 3: and be compassionate and kind and not go with them,
Speaker 3: Oh you should do this, So you should do that,
Speaker 3: especially if you don't have experience, and then yes, like
Speaker 3: it would be very easy to say the wrong thing.
Speaker 3: But also in general, like with eating salters, you never
Speaker 3: want to mention about like food or diets, like definitely
Speaker 3: no diet talk around them. Definitely, no talk about this
Speaker 3: food is good or bad, healthy and healthy like any
Speaker 3: of those labels. No talk about their weight or anybody else's. Wait,
Speaker 3: even criticizing your own body can be say to them that, yeah,
Speaker 3: like bodies are something to be criticized or weight is
Speaker 3: something to be feared or controlled. So I guess, yeah, like,
Speaker 3: don't talk about food, weights and those things, and maybe yeah,
Speaker 3: you can urge the conversation about something else, because even
Speaker 3: though they need to get their mind off from their
Speaker 3: food and eating and the last thing maybe they need
Speaker 3: is someone close to them start to ask a bunch
Speaker 3: of questions and tell them like what to do or something.
Speaker 3: But it's so hard because I don't know, like, of
Speaker 3: course somebody who is like a parent, and sometimes you
Speaker 3: need to have intervention if you see like things are
Speaker 3: really going bad. But it's like, very often I see
Speaker 3: that it's so hard to help somebody who is not
Speaker 3: ready or who is who doesn't think there's something wrong.
Speaker 3: Like people ask me like, yeah, like now I'm in
Speaker 3: recovery and I see other people dieting and doing this
Speaker 3: and that at LISTA, what can I do? I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, because I know when I was deep
Speaker 3: into that, I wasn't open minded enough. I wasn't receptive
Speaker 3: to that because I had my own beliefs and everything.
Speaker 3: It would have maybe pushed people away. Even so, but
Speaker 3: what I tell them is that you lead by example,
Speaker 3: be there fully recovered person you can be, and then
Speaker 3: maybe your friends or whoever you meet, they will be
Speaker 3: positively influenced just by your example, not by what you say,
Speaker 3: but what you do and how you are.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that if you happen
Speaker 1: to see a friend experiencing this and you're seeing the
Speaker 1: pattern of behavior, but just like with a lot of
Speaker 1: trauma in our lives. Until somebody is ready to get
Speaker 1: the help, you can't force them to have the help.
Speaker 1: And that was you answer my next question already.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but maybe if you are vulnerable and you share
Speaker 3: your experience this or something, it will urge them also
Speaker 3: to talk about their experiences and open up and be trusting.
Speaker 3: But also don't then jump on the telling them what
Speaker 3: to do. But just in an over a period of time,
Speaker 3: they will start to trust you, and maybe then they
Speaker 3: will also trust you around this area if they already
Speaker 3: see that you are most of the time like listening
Speaker 3: and compassionate and you love them as they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great place first, and do thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your
Speaker 1: story and talking about something that's very difficult to talk about,
Speaker 1: your journey. Check out all of her stuff. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: Opposite in the description of this podcast, but for those
Speaker 1: in recovery or wanting to get into recovery, I think
Speaker 1: this is a great first step. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much, and thank you for this opportunity.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm honored to be here. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: I was searching social media to find another person to
Speaker 1: talk about this topic with, and I found Tory Payton's page.
Speaker 1: She was talking about her experience with an eating disorder
Speaker 1: and the entire experience, and she's really trying to help
Speaker 1: people go through the experience alone, which is or not
Speaker 1: go through the experience alone, which the whole purpose of
Speaker 1: this podcast is to talk about hard topics and hopes
Speaker 1: that people feel less alone. So it was the perfect
Speaker 1: matchup when I saw you, so Tory, thank you for joining,
Speaker 1: thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you for reaching out. I'm so
Speaker 2: happy to talk about such an important and not often
Speaker 2: discussed topic, especially in the days of ozembic and the
Speaker 2: lack of body positivity. So I'm really excited.
Speaker 1: Yes, we are in a strange time right now. It's
Speaker 1: like the fluctuation. Sometimes it's up and everybody's body positive,
Speaker 1: and then we go back down. And it's the culture
Speaker 1: shift that keeps moving and flowing. And that I had
Speaker 1: an episode with an incredibly intelligent woman named Lindsay Kite,
Speaker 1: and she studied this entire structure of what it looks
Speaker 1: like for a body image in the way that it
Speaker 1: shaped us in women's culture, and it's what wanted me
Speaker 1: to do this episode specifically on disordered eating because it's
Speaker 1: such an important topic. So, toy, we're going to start
Speaker 1: diving in super deep right away. But tell me about you.
Speaker 1: Tell me about your disordered eating journey. Where this all
Speaker 1: started for you.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Okay, So honestly, I think it started
Speaker 2: when I was seven. I'm pretty open talking about all
Speaker 2: the different traumatic things I've gone through, just because I
Speaker 2: think in talking about them, I could replain my own story.
Speaker 2: And so when I was seven, I was actually sexually assaulted,
Speaker 2: and from that moment on, I just had a really
Speaker 2: complicated relationship with my body. It caused me to have
Speaker 2: just this feeling of disconnection and this feeling like I
Speaker 2: always in some ways needed to punish my body. I
Speaker 2: don't know exactly how to to describe that in super
Speaker 2: articulate language, but it was just like a way of
Speaker 2: navigating the world that felt very disconnected. And so I
Speaker 2: ended up becoming an athlete. Throughout high school I played
Speaker 2: competitive volleyball, and then into college I played competitive volleyball,
Speaker 2: and once I quit volleyball I was about nineteen or
Speaker 2: twenty years old. I didn't end up finishing volleyball because
Speaker 2: I got injured, and once I quit, I just had
Speaker 2: no idea, like how to exist. I had been pushing
Speaker 2: my body for so hard for so long, and through
Speaker 2: that fueling super adequately, making sure I wanted to be
Speaker 2: the best at my sport, and so from the fueling perspective,
Speaker 2: everything was good until I stopped playing, and then I
Speaker 2: was like, I have no idea how I'm supposed to exist,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not an athlete anymore. I don't have an
Speaker 2: athlete's body, Like what type of body am I supposed
Speaker 2: to have? And so naturally I went to social media
Speaker 2: to see what the other girls were doing at that time,
Speaker 2: and a lot of them were like skinny white sorority girls,
Speaker 2: to be honest, and so so I thought, that's who
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be, Like, that is what a feminine
Speaker 2: woman at this time means, that's what she looks like.
Speaker 2: And so I did my absolute artist to lose as
Speaker 2: much weight as I possibly can in as short a
Speaker 2: period of time as I possibly could. So when I
Speaker 2: was twenty years old, I think I dropped thirty or
Speaker 2: forty pounds just really quickly. And from there what started
Speaker 2: is like wanting to lose weight to look good became
Speaker 2: a really deep and dark obsession that lasted five years,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't until May of twenty twenty three that
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, I have to make
Speaker 2: a change. Like I'm twenty five. I feel like I
Speaker 2: haven't lived any of my twenties because I'm so obsessed
Speaker 2: with my body, with managing food, and I don't want
Speaker 2: to live anymore. Like it got to that point, like
Speaker 2: a lot of times we don't think about the implications
Speaker 2: of restriction and the point it can get your body
Speaker 2: and your mind too. But yeah, I just I didn't
Speaker 2: want to keep going, and so two years ago I
Speaker 2: chose to recover. Since then, it's been ups and downs,
Speaker 2: but mainly just feeling so grateful for just like words
Speaker 2: don't really describe. I'm just very grateful for having been
Speaker 2: at the lowest of possible lowst now having hope and
Speaker 2: not just having hope, but being able to share it
Speaker 2: with other people, Like it is such a gift, and
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful. However weird it sounds to have gone
Speaker 2: through that so that I can help other.
Speaker 3: People through it.
Speaker 1: The craziest thing about disordered eating stories. I have another
Speaker 1: person who's on this episode with you, and the vast
Speaker 1: difference is there isn't a one size fits all when
Speaker 1: it comes to this and what it looks like and
Speaker 1: how it appears and hers was this natural progression. But
Speaker 1: what I can notice is a lot of it is
Speaker 1: societal influence, like outside of your really horrible experience, which
Speaker 1: breaks my heart for you, but something that then set
Speaker 1: you even further on a different path. It's just heartbreaking
Speaker 1: to think that started this for you. But looking at
Speaker 1: bigger picture in this particular moment in question, I want
Speaker 1: to go down. This societal impact is something that is
Speaker 1: really difficult for us to understand and address. You're sitting
Speaker 1: here and able to say I saw this, and this
Speaker 1: is what this looked like, and I can see that now.
Speaker 1: But when you were in it, were you ever thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: this is not actually probably very healthy, or this is
Speaker 1: not what I should be doing. Was there ever this
Speaker 1: battle that you were having internally or was it just
Speaker 1: so clear cut like this is who I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: be because that's who they are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a good question. I've actually been reflecting
Speaker 2: on this a lot lately, just randomly and thinking about
Speaker 2: how do we as women identify ourselves and I think
Speaker 2: I've come to the conclusion that we either put ourselves
Speaker 2: in two boxes because society tells us too, and one
Speaker 2: is appearance and two is performance. I was so caught
Speaker 2: up with on the volleyball side, fueling, like my ego,
Speaker 2: my identity based off of how I was performing at volleyball.
Speaker 2: So once that was gone, once my feeling of sense
Speaker 2: of worth was gone from volleyball, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't have that, so now let me focus on appearance.
Speaker 2: And if you go on social media today, you'll see
Speaker 2: plenty of people on skinny Talk but also on Instagram
Speaker 2: that are telling you a woman is supposed to be pretty,
Speaker 2: like that is her role as a human being. You
Speaker 2: need to be pretty, and you need to be soft spoken,
Speaker 2: and you need to be kind and just all of
Speaker 2: these expectations for women that really just put us in
Speaker 2: a box and you're either the productivity girl or you're
Speaker 2: the like, cute, pretty girl. And so yeah, I would
Speaker 2: say one hundred percent, like during that time, because volleyball
Speaker 2: was gone, I was like, Okay, it's all about how
Speaker 2: I look at this point, and it's really scary that
Speaker 2: I feel like we're at a point in history where
Speaker 2: all that is like coming back again, where like the
Speaker 2: skinny Influencer is in again. It's really terrifying for people
Speaker 2: who are trying to recover or heal from those things.
Speaker 1: Right now, what has social media been like? You're mentioning
Speaker 1: the skinny Influencer, and I love how you addressed what
Speaker 1: I just said, and so thank you for going there.
Speaker 1: I know all the things I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: about are just going to be deep and emotional.
Speaker 2: So we love deep and emotional.
Speaker 1: This is good. This is how we talk about these things.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the Skinny Influencer as someone who went
Speaker 1: through it and is now in the post side of it.
Speaker 1: What is social media like for you? What is that
Speaker 1: experience like for you? And making sure I don't know
Speaker 1: if trigger it's the right word, or making sure that
Speaker 1: you're just not impacted by social media in that same
Speaker 1: way anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. It is crazy recovering and going through
Speaker 2: that process of healing your relationship with your body and
Speaker 2: being on the other side of it for the moment
Speaker 2: most part, and seeing how many things you thought were
Speaker 2: normal that were actually disordered, like the what I eat
Speaker 2: in a days where girls are eating literally an avocado
Speaker 2: toast in a smoothie, and the fitness influencers that work
Speaker 2: out at the gym multiple hours a day and barely eat,
Speaker 2: or just the girls who are like constantly focused on
Speaker 2: like being the absolute thinness that they can be. Like
Speaker 2: all of these things I thought was so normal, and
Speaker 2: I wanted the ads. I wanted to be super thin
Speaker 2: and skinny and pretty, because not only is that what
Speaker 2: society was telling me women should look like for women,
Speaker 2: but like it told me that's how like men were
Speaker 2: going to like me too, And so I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: like I have to look that way. And so now
Speaker 2: being on the other side of it, I can take
Speaker 2: a step back and be like, wow, that is actually insane.
Speaker 2: Like you straight up we're trying to change everything about
Speaker 2: you to fit this like box that isn't even going
Speaker 2: to allow you to fulfill like your purposes and dreams
Speaker 2: and amazing things in life. And so now I think
Speaker 2: I'm easily can take a step back and be like
Speaker 2: toy rein it in that's not for you. We know
Speaker 2: where that led you, we know the path that took you.
Speaker 2: You have to focus on what is your purpose on
Speaker 2: this earth? And so super easy to compare. Yes, I
Speaker 2: still get little triggers or like little comparison nudges, but
Speaker 2: I always try to bring it back. So, Okay, comparison
Speaker 2: is the thief of joy I have no idea what
Speaker 2: their life is like behind the screen.
Speaker 3: What am I doing? Like?
Speaker 2: How am I helping people?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: How am I making a difference in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good reminder for people to have because
Speaker 1: social media. I work in it, it's my job. I
Speaker 1: understand it on so many levels. But I am someone
Speaker 1: who can look at it and say there's good and
Speaker 1: there is bad, And that's just the commonality with social
Speaker 1: media is understanding both of those sides. It's hard for
Speaker 1: me to understand. So this is why I have people
Speaker 1: like you that come on and share this. When you
Speaker 1: were in this moment of just the very deep you
Speaker 1: mentioned you were like at your lowest point. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was that moment like for you when this was all
Speaker 1: happening and it was like finally came to its volcano?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly need to like go through a period
Speaker 2: of therapy where I can really just sit in how
Speaker 2: horrible those five years were. To be honest, I'd block
Speaker 2: it out because that's how bad it was. Every single
Speaker 2: day I woke up, I had this voice in my
Speaker 2: head screaming at me, telling me I needed to be skinnier.
Speaker 2: I was worthless, I wasn't pretty enough. I needed to
Speaker 2: control my food. And it essentially took away my health physically,
Speaker 2: my health mentally, everything I liked about myself, my personality.
Speaker 2: I lost friends. Every day was genuinely a living hell.
Speaker 2: And I know that's not the experience for everyone with
Speaker 2: disordered eating, but for me at this period where I
Speaker 2: had a severe eating disorder, like it was just terrible
Speaker 2: and so honestly, like everything just came to a head.
Speaker 2: One night in May where I was alone at home.
Speaker 2: I felt pretty isolated, because this stuff really isolates you,
Speaker 2: and I was engaging in a bunch of negative behaviors
Speaker 2: like binging and purging, and I was like, I think,
Speaker 2: this is it. This is the moment. I was sitting
Speaker 2: on the bathroom floor and I was like, this is
Speaker 2: the moment where I change things and I decide I'm
Speaker 2: going to try to live a good life and that
Speaker 2: might mean putting on some weight or this is it,
Speaker 2: and I'm just going to be done, Like I'm going
Speaker 2: to let this disease consume me and essentially kill me,
Speaker 2: because that's what eating disorders or like not fueling your
Speaker 2: body will do, like physically to people. And so in
Speaker 2: that moment, I just felt like a whisper honestly from
Speaker 2: God because I'm a Christian, where he was just like,
Speaker 2: you've got to change. This is not what I had
Speaker 2: for you. This is not it. There's something so much
Speaker 2: bigger for you out there, but you have to change.
Speaker 2: I know you're terrified, but you have to.
Speaker 1: I've had my own personal super low moments, but hearing
Speaker 1: you recount yours, I know how hard that darkness is.
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't matter what that trouble was, but to
Speaker 1: feel at your lowest moment, your darkest and you're like,
Speaker 1: this is the end of my story, this is the
Speaker 1: end of my life. I know that place is so
Speaker 1: hard to then come back from. Even if you do
Speaker 1: get that whisper, even if you do get that little
Speaker 1: jolt saying hey, we have to change this, because not
Speaker 1: only are you in this moment right here where it's
Speaker 1: the darkest moment ever, but you have to climb out
Speaker 1: of it. And the climb feels like Mount Everest. You're
Speaker 1: never gonna get finished or get there. So now, going
Speaker 1: from this lowest moment, what did your climb kind of
Speaker 1: start to look like? From that bathroom floor and you
Speaker 1: got this whipper and you're trying to figure out Okay,
Speaker 1: I hear you, But what am I supposed to do
Speaker 1: to change this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think in that moment that was
Speaker 2: like I'm all in. I think everyone has to have
Speaker 2: a moment where they're like, I'm all in. I'm not
Speaker 2: going back. I just made a promise to myself that day,
Speaker 2: I'm not going back to my eating disorder like I refuse.
Speaker 2: And so ever since that day, it's been a slow
Speaker 2: like pruning of myself where I'm just slowly taking out
Speaker 2: the negative and slowly inserting the positive. And so it
Speaker 2: wasn't like one day the next day I woke up
Speaker 2: and everything was better. But the next day I woke
Speaker 2: up and I was like, I'm not going back, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to do whatever I can every day to
Speaker 2: move one step forward. And I think anyone who's healing
Speaker 2: from something like food and body image issues just know
Speaker 2: that it's not a clear path forward. It's not like
Speaker 2: one step every single day all the time. It might
Speaker 2: be one step forward, five steps back, another five steps back,
Speaker 2: and then ten steps forward, Like it's so messy because
Speaker 2: we're in perfect human beings and it's just not going
Speaker 2: to be a perfect linear journey. But the number one
Speaker 2: thing that helped me the most was genuinely believing in
Speaker 2: myself and being kind to myself. I know that sounds crazy,
Speaker 2: I know it sounds very cliche, but for so long
Speaker 2: I had that inner critic voice that I was listening to,
Speaker 2: and it really just made me feel terrible about myself.
Speaker 2: And so I decided from that low moment on the
Speaker 2: one thing I would do is I would believe in myself,
Speaker 2: and I would tell myself that I can do it,
Speaker 2: because I truly believe in the power of your mind,
Speaker 2: and you're like working towards just trying to reframe that
Speaker 2: negative inner critic into a positive one in your mind
Speaker 2: can do so much for you. And so I know
Speaker 2: I touched on a bunch of different things, but that's
Speaker 2: what I would say, Like, it wasn't just like a
Speaker 2: snap and everything was good. It was just the long, slow,
Speaker 2: tedious process of curiosity and grace to myself.
Speaker 1: And that's so important to recognize because healing is never
Speaker 1: a linear journey. It's like circular and square and all
Speaker 1: the geomatic shapes you want to come up with. That's
Speaker 1: what healing looks like. And it's really important for people
Speaker 1: to hear that from somebody who went through it. So
Speaker 1: thanks for sharing that. And also it's not crazy at
Speaker 1: all that you were talking about the positive mindset and
Speaker 1: understanding and believing yourself. One of our biggest tools as
Speaker 1: human beings is like recognizing the power and strength we
Speaker 1: have within ourselves to do something. And to your point,
Speaker 1: mindset matters, and we hear it and it sounds to
Speaker 1: everybody so wou We're like, oh your mind, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter, but it does. Like at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, your brain is part of your body
Speaker 1: and it's trying to help you. So super powerful stuff
Speaker 1: right there as you're going through these maybe it was
Speaker 1: on the front end, that very low moment, maybe on
Speaker 1: the healing side. What's something you wish you would have
Speaker 1: known sooner throughout this entire process, Like something if somebody's
Speaker 1: going through it right now and you're like, dang, I
Speaker 1: wish me at that moment could have known this. What
Speaker 1: would that look like for you? To tell someone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think honestly, waking can be such a big
Speaker 2: fear with people when they're recovering from something like disordered
Speaker 2: eating or eating disorders. And I just wanted that girl
Speaker 2: to know, who was like terrified for five years of
Speaker 2: gaining weight, that it's really not that big of a deal.
Speaker 2: And I know that sounds so just like I'm throwing
Speaker 2: off people's fears and saying they're not important. That's not
Speaker 2: what I mean at all. I just mean, like the
Speaker 2: life that you're going to get is just no comparison
Speaker 2: to the weight that you're going to gain. Like your
Speaker 2: life is going to be so much fuller and better
Speaker 2: and personality, your personality will come back, relationships will be healed,
Speaker 2: Like things will be so much better. And I wish
Speaker 2: i'd told that girl who was so timid to start healing,
Speaker 2: like things genuinely will get better. Like recovery and healing
Speaker 2: is way better even the worst day than the best
Speaker 2: day you ever had when you were struggling.
Speaker 1: That's so powerful. You mentioned the moments where you would
Speaker 1: take five steps forward and ten steps back or vice versa.
Speaker 1: I want someone to hear your words very much so
Speaker 1: in this process because there's probably going to be a
Speaker 1: lot of people out there that are listening and would
Speaker 1: want to give up in the process of healing, and
Speaker 1: sometimes hearing somebody else have these just very normal human moments.
Speaker 1: So if I'm not perfect and I went through this
Speaker 1: and it was all across the board, is really important
Speaker 1: to hear, especially when they're either choosing to start to
Speaker 1: heal or in the process of healing or considering it.
Speaker 1: Can you walk through a little bit for someone who's
Speaker 1: maybe in one of those spaces and they're like, gosh,
Speaker 1: I just I don't think I'm ready for that battle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, honestly, the most helpful thing during
Speaker 2: my process was just remembering what I was fighting for.
Speaker 2: If you don't know what you're fighting for, then it's
Speaker 2: going to be a pointless battle. You're not fighting to
Speaker 2: make sure that your therapist or your dietitian feels good
Speaker 2: about the progress you've made. You're not fighting so that
Speaker 2: your family and friends won't be worried about you anymore.
Speaker 2: And you're not fighting for other comments from other people
Speaker 2: about like how healthy you look and like how much
Speaker 2: better life looks on you. You're really fighting for your
Speaker 2: true self that is what healing is about. It's connecting
Speaker 2: with your authentic true self and exploring, like who that
Speaker 2: person is. I had no idea because I was so
Speaker 2: upset with like my eating disorder, with my body, Like
Speaker 2: I had no idea who I was, especially in my twenties,
Speaker 2: Like when I'm supposed to be figuring out like my
Speaker 2: identity and who I am, I had no clue. And
Speaker 2: so so much of my healing journey I would hold
Speaker 2: on to no, I'm fighting to connect with that person,
Speaker 2: to give her the life she deserves, and like to
Speaker 2: find the things that really truly make me happy in
Speaker 2: this life. And so I will say there were times
Speaker 2: when I would wake up and I was like, I
Speaker 2: have absolutely no motivation today to do anything pro recovery
Speaker 2: to help myself in any way. And the only thing
Speaker 2: that kept me going was that, like I wanted to
Speaker 2: feed that true self. Every day, you're either feeding shame,
Speaker 2: you're feeding going backwards, you're feeding like that negative side,
Speaker 2: that negative inner critic, or you're feeding your authentic true self.
Speaker 2: So I think if you can just take a step
Speaker 2: back and think about what is the actual battle happening here,
Speaker 2: I think it's easy to be like Oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, I'm just eating food or I'm just exercising.
Speaker 2: Like we can get very nitpicky and like physical about it,
Speaker 2: but no, it's honestly spiritual. This is about who you
Speaker 2: are and fighting for who you are. So that really
Speaker 2: kept me going.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and oh my goodness, that's important for
Speaker 1: most things in life too, because we like to think
Speaker 1: that whenever we recover from something, or we start healing
Speaker 1: or we start growing, that we're doing it for somebody
Speaker 1: else or something else. Yeah, when really the journey should
Speaker 1: be about you and your experience and helping you. So
Speaker 1: that's good advice for everything. But I'm so glad I
Speaker 1: had you go down that road in the beginning of
Speaker 1: this too. You share the starting point of your story,
Speaker 1: which was a very unfortunate traumatic situation that happened to you.
Speaker 1: Did you also have to heal that aspect and what
Speaker 1: happened to you to start to heal your disordered eating habits?
Speaker 1: Was that kind of coincided together or were they separated?
Speaker 1: Because this is the first situation and story that I've
Speaker 1: heard where something like that has spearheaded a situation in
Speaker 1: a path for somebody. So I'm curious to know because
Speaker 1: I am positive it's probably and unfortunately not uncommon. So
Speaker 1: I would love to know what that experience was like
Speaker 1: for you in case somebody else out there may have
Speaker 1: something similar happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I've learned and grown over the past couple
Speaker 2: of years in this space, like I would argue that
Speaker 2: all of our hurts or our negative habits, like an addiction,
Speaker 2: like an eating disorder, really is fostered from originally from trauma.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to be anything like capital t
Speaker 2: trauma like I experienced. It can be something as small
Speaker 2: as like a comment that was made to you when
Speaker 2: you were very young, or maybe a parent did something
Speaker 2: when you were younger and punished you in a way
Speaker 2: that like wasn't ideal, and so that just for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: your brain stuck onto that and it was very traumatic.
Speaker 2: Trauma also isn't what happens to us, it's how we
Speaker 2: interpret those events, and so our brain can be eat
Speaker 2: really impacted by little and big things that happen to us.
Speaker 2: And so I think if you find yourself in a
Speaker 2: space of disordered eating or in the eating disorder a
Speaker 2: lot of the time, like the work that you have
Speaker 2: to do is reflecting on the past and the past
Speaker 2: traumas and how that impacted your sense of identity, because
Speaker 2: these disorders, at the end of the day, are all
Speaker 2: about identity. They're about like control and where you're putting
Speaker 2: your sense of self. And I think when we have
Speaker 2: a sense of self that is rooted in my worth
Speaker 2: is unchanging, like no matter what I do in this life,
Speaker 2: I have inherent self worth. When we have that perspective,
Speaker 2: it's harder for trauma or those little things to come
Speaker 2: in and dig at us and dig it our core.
Speaker 2: Whereas like when we do let those things impact us,
Speaker 2: we can go to all these negative habits for a
Speaker 2: sense of control, for a sense of identity and purpose.
Speaker 2: I would say most people who struggle with eating disorders,
Speaker 2: disordered eating, like we talked about societal impacts, they're looking
Speaker 2: to society to tell them that they're worthy because they're
Speaker 2: small enough, and they're worthy because they're pretty enough. And
Speaker 2: so when you have that inherent sense of self worth
Speaker 2: and work through those past traumatic events, I think that's
Speaker 2: when the real healing begins, Like at the root of
Speaker 2: all these issues, the full healing happens.
Speaker 1: I am a big believer in fighting for the root
Speaker 1: cause of anything when it comes to issues, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like that is very much a similar way to
Speaker 1: heal a similar situation like yours. So thank you for
Speaker 1: getting into that. Yeah, I do want to look at
Speaker 1: your life now, because we talked about social media and
Speaker 1: how that can have some triggering moments, and you've done
Speaker 1: really well to work through those. Well, what about in
Speaker 1: everyday life? Like I'm picturing two friends, one has gone
Speaker 1: through a similar experience to yours, ones like me who
Speaker 1: can understand and be there, but I may not quite
Speaker 1: be able to put myself in your shoes. So how
Speaker 1: can someone and like me better do that for people
Speaker 1: like you in everyday life? What are experiences that happen
Speaker 1: in everyday life that could be triggering or that could
Speaker 1: be hurtful that would not help someone like you on
Speaker 1: their journey to constantly healing and doing better.
Speaker 2: I love this question, and I think in what you're
Speaker 2: talking about, it's not just being like proactive and dealing
Speaker 2: with people who have had eating disorders in the past.
Speaker 2: It's also being proactive in the sense of we don't
Speaker 2: want to trigger anyone and cause a future eating disorder
Speaker 2: for them either. And so I think just being very
Speaker 2: mindful of like first and foremost. This might be obvious
Speaker 2: to some people, but body comments like that is not helpful.
Speaker 2: So it's hells someone Oh it looks like you lost
Speaker 2: a little bit of weight, or wow, it looks like
Speaker 2: you've gained weight. Like neither of those things is helpful information.
Speaker 2: It doesn't tell you anything about the identity of that person.
Speaker 2: It just tells you about the shell and the shape
Speaker 2: and size of their shell. I would also say making
Speaker 2: sure that like you're fueling properly your own people. I
Speaker 2: know this is again that might seem obvious, but a
Speaker 2: lot of girls, like even when you go to breakfast
Speaker 2: in a coffee shop, a lot of girls will just
Speaker 2: be like, you know what, I'm just gonna grab coffee.
Speaker 2: I don't need to eat. And it's crazy because little
Speaker 2: things like that can actually be things that make other
Speaker 2: girls like me like self conscious, and it's not I
Speaker 2: do want to be careful. It's not anyone else's responsibility
Speaker 2: to not trigger me, Like my recovery is my own
Speaker 2: and I have to protect it and know what's best
Speaker 2: for me. But I think as empathetic human beings, we
Speaker 2: should want to protect the people around us, and so
Speaker 2: obviously on the body side, like not making comments on
Speaker 2: the food side, like fueling adequately and properly, and not
Speaker 2: making comments about food or what other people are eating.
Speaker 2: And then I think, too, like this one is small,
Speaker 2: but it's something I've really tried to be more intentional about.
Speaker 2: Is even commenting in general about appearance. I know this
Speaker 2: might sound a little bit nuanced, but you can say
Speaker 2: you like some one's dress, or you can say you
Speaker 2: love their style or their outfit. But do you need
Speaker 2: to say, oh, my gosh, that dress brings out your
Speaker 2: figure or oh my gosh, like your boobs look so
Speaker 2: good in that. I don't know why, as human beings
Speaker 2: we feel the need to pick apart people's bodies and
Speaker 2: somehow compliment them or insult them based off of how
Speaker 2: their body looks, like just all of that in general,
Speaker 2: Like I want to see humans for who they are, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to just see them as that person
Speaker 2: exists in a bigger body, or that person looks terrible
Speaker 2: because they're way too skinny. That doesn't serve anybody. So
Speaker 2: I think doing your absolute best to just take a
Speaker 2: step back and be like, Okay, how do I view people?
Speaker 2: Do I view them based off of appearance or like
Speaker 2: how they look at any point in time, or am
Speaker 2: I viewing them as a human as someone deserving of
Speaker 2: respect and who has inherent worth. I think that's just
Speaker 2: a really helpful perspective to have, like in general, and
Speaker 2: I even practice on TV shows by the way, like
Speaker 2: I used to always comment like, oh my gosh, that
Speaker 2: guy's so hot or like a girls so hot and whatever.
Speaker 2: I try to take a stuck back and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what do I like about their character? What do I
Speaker 2: like about their impact in the show? And again that
Speaker 2: might seem crazy to some people, but it really does
Speaker 2: rewire your brain and how you view other people, which
Speaker 2: is really cool.
Speaker 1: And this question really brings out the compassion of human beings. Right,
Speaker 1: we have gotten away a little bit from having compassion
Speaker 1: for others. And of course, is there moments of inconvenience
Speaker 1: and being compassionate and empathetic, Yeah, of course there are.
Speaker 1: But it's more important for me to be inconvenience than
Speaker 1: somebody else just for the sake of understanding somebody else's story.
Speaker 1: And you and I seem very in the same mindset
Speaker 1: with that, and the idea of how that is. But
Speaker 1: it's always why I like asking questions like that in
Speaker 1: regards to hard topics, because even having this conversation in
Speaker 1: somebody sitting here and hearing it, it just might make
Speaker 1: them think a little bit twice before they say or
Speaker 1: do something, because it's really easy to go about our
Speaker 1: own lives and think about the things that other people
Speaker 1: have gone through. Of course, right, everybody's lives are really difficult,
Speaker 1: but it's also part of being a human being is
Speaker 1: having compassion for others and understand that everybody's going through stuff.
Speaker 1: So what you said is really important. And I also
Speaker 1: think it's very important in girlfriend groups guy friend groups too,
Speaker 1: they just start not as unfortunately equipped to talk about
Speaker 1: these emotional things, and women tend to go in this direction.
Speaker 1: So it's not gender specific, but more often than not,
Speaker 1: women are the ones who are sitting there having these
Speaker 1: conversations or not eating. And I've been at I cannot
Speaker 1: tell you how many dinners where somebody is eating and
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter all. I'm probably her. I'm the one who's, yeah,
Speaker 1: give me eight apps, I don't care, let me have
Speaker 1: all of it. And then I have another friend who's
Speaker 1: I just would like a salad and I'm like, what
Speaker 1: are we doing? No, we are eating. This is a
Speaker 1: girl's dinner. And I try to be encouraging, but I
Speaker 1: also know that in general can be triggering because you're
Speaker 1: trying to help but you don't really know if it's
Speaker 1: helping or not. You're just not sure because it's part
Speaker 1: of that. But I think so much of what you
Speaker 1: said is in regards to just being compassionate and having
Speaker 1: a little bit of care intact when we handle things
Speaker 1: that could potentially be sensitive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think too if you have friends, Like,
Speaker 2: something that is so important to me is female community,
Speaker 2: like women supporting and uplifting other women. And when I
Speaker 2: tell you one of the best parts of my healing
Speaker 2: journey was my best friend and I were always really close,
Speaker 2: but just realizing throughout this, through the weight gain, through
Speaker 2: me looking different at different periods of time, she liked
Speaker 2: me more the more weight I gained, because I got
Speaker 2: my personality back like she liked me, and like I
Speaker 2: could literally cry talking about it because like it just
Speaker 2: meant so much. Your friends don't care what you look like.
Speaker 2: Your friends care about you, true friends, true friends care
Speaker 2: about you. And I think that's beautiful and so encouraging
Speaker 2: for people who are struggling because you don't have to
Speaker 2: try so hard.
Speaker 1: Just be you.
Speaker 2: Like you asked me earlier, what advice would I give,
Speaker 2: It's genuinely just be you, to row off all the expectations,
Speaker 2: the need for appearances and just try to find out
Speaker 2: who you are and like run full speed ahead with
Speaker 2: that person.
Speaker 1: Like and to your point, so much of what I
Speaker 1: receive on social media because I'm a huge foodie. I
Speaker 1: love food, like big fan. I will post about everything,
Speaker 1: and I love like I just like eating food. I
Speaker 1: like enjoying what I'm eating, even I even when I'm
Speaker 1: eating healthier. I'm like, how can I make like I
Speaker 1: just did it the other day. I turned puppy chow
Speaker 1: from checks to blueberries. I'm like, okay, well healthier.
Speaker 3: That sounds good, And I was.
Speaker 1: Like, this is healthier, but I'm still getting what I
Speaker 1: want out of this, which is like an enjoyable experience.
Speaker 1: But it's so funny the comments that are constantly coming.
Speaker 1: You eat so much food, how are you still so small?
Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, one, you're not seeing me work out
Speaker 1: all the time because I don't feel the need you
Speaker 1: have to see it, and two I have decently healthy gens.
Speaker 1: So let's also this is all relative. But also why
Speaker 1: are you commenting on how much I'm eating just because
Speaker 1: I really love food? Even like just the comments around
Speaker 1: food and exercise, not just about our looks, which we
Speaker 1: touched on, but it's anything in general that could insinuate
Speaker 1: any direction about somebody's experience in their life. And it's
Speaker 1: it is nuanced to your point, like it is right,
Speaker 1: these are the nitty gritty details.
Speaker 2: I love what you just said, like I wish I
Speaker 2: could bottle it up, because I think to your point,
Speaker 2: it is about appearance in some ways, but it is
Speaker 2: what I was talking about, the performance aspect. It's almost
Speaker 2: like food and exercise have been moral deciders of it
Speaker 2: if we are good enough in society or not. Like
Speaker 2: how well we perform as women is based off of
Speaker 2: like how much you work out and how hell do
Speaker 2: you eat? And I think that's psychotic. Nothing about me
Speaker 2: as a person, like I could literally be a criminal,
Speaker 2: but like I'm cool because I'm skinny and eat healthy
Speaker 2: food and work out a lot, like it makes me me.
Speaker 1: It is true, it's honestly, now that you said it
Speaker 1: out loud, it's like the Ted Bundy thing. Everybody finds
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy super attractive, but like guys, he's a horrible
Speaker 1: human being, horrible you know, pop culture as well. But
Speaker 1: it reminded me of that when you're talking about that.
Speaker 1: And we could go down this rabbit hole all day
Speaker 1: and I love it, but I always like to end
Speaker 1: on something that's either whether it's motivational or advice, or
Speaker 1: something that maybe we didn't touch on that you really
Speaker 1: want to make sure people hear. So I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: you the floor and you can in this how you
Speaker 1: feel like super passionate about.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest like superpower I'm going to use
Speaker 2: that word is throughout your entire healing journey is leaning
Speaker 2: into grace and leaning away from shame. I truly believe that,
Speaker 2: like we have a negative inner critic in our head
Speaker 2: that is going to want us to embrace shame, to
Speaker 2: tell us that if we make mistake or if we're
Speaker 2: not doing something perfectly, we should punish ourselves or we
Speaker 2: should just give up altogether, and that people around us
Speaker 2: are ashamed of us. And I just don't think that's true.
Speaker 2: That's one narrative that part of your brain is telling you.
Speaker 2: I think we really need to lean into the narrative
Speaker 2: of grace and of curiosity, because that is the only
Speaker 2: way you'll get better. You're not going to get better
Speaker 2: shaming yourself. You're not going to get better saying I
Speaker 2: wish i'd done that, I should have done that. You're
Speaker 2: going to get better by being your number one, biggest
Speaker 2: cheerleader and advocating for yourself. And I wholeheartedly believe that
Speaker 2: because I was seen in my own journey months in
Speaker 2: which I would fall into a deep depression because I
Speaker 2: was so ashamed of XYZ and then pulling myself out
Speaker 2: of it because I was like, you know what, No,
Speaker 2: that's going to lead me to death and destruction in
Speaker 2: my brain like I have to be positive. I have
Speaker 2: to fight for myself and for my happiness and be
Speaker 2: my best friend. I truly believe that. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that's the last thing I would say to people.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so good. You gave us so many great
Speaker 1: bits of wisdom and understanding. Thank you for walking us
Speaker 1: through your whole experience and sharing things to help others
Speaker 1: while they go through or are on this through or
Speaker 1: in the same situation you are. I just really appreciate
Speaker 1: your vulnerability and being here with me today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.
Speaker 1: As always, I'm so happy you're here listening to these
Speaker 1: episodes and taking in everything so that if you're on
Speaker 1: a similar journey, hopefully this is the start of a
Speaker 1: new one. Subscribe to the podcast or follow on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Take This Personally. You can DM me on there
Speaker 1: if you have any questions or want a topic discussed,
Speaker 1: or just want to say hi, Thanks, friends, I love you.
Speaker 2: Bye.